Noisy Trains
Spookshow Int'l
layout. In the original section, I used cork roadbed under all of the track
(glued on top of plywood or styrofoam). In the new section I've glued the
track directly to four inches of styrofoam (situated atop plywood). I
thought that the styrofoam would provide the same kind of noise abatement
that the cork roadbed does, but not so. The trains make one hell of a lot of
noise when on that portion of my layout and I'm wondering if there's
anything I can do about it. Will ballast cut down on the noise, or are my
choices simply roadbed or loud trains?
Thanks,
-Mark
Paul Tackowiak
for you to try to muffle the sound from the underside. Think of your layout as a
drum head. The styrofoam and plywood act as a taut skin. Vibrations on this
surface (operating trains) move the air and thus produce sound. Perhaps you
can't 'loosen' the surface now that the track is laid, but you might be able to
add material to absorb the resulting air movement. Try some experiments. Try
everything from gluing shag carpet to the underside of the plywood, to using
batt insulation. Adding sound absorbing finishes (ceiling tiles, carpet, etc) to
the train room will help too.
Paul Tackowiak
BKobernus
Bill
Roe Thomas
never seen a stelth train that makes no sound. Roe
Spookshow Int'l
Since no one seems to have answered my original question, allow me to ask it
again. Will adding ballast reduce or change the noise characteristics of the
track? Or will I have to relay my track using roadbed if I want to muffle
any of that tinny wheel-on-track noise?
-Mark
Roe Thomas wrote in message <383866CD...@ptialaska.net>...
chuck kimbrough
sub bed. Get it the way you want it before you do the finishing work.
--
Charles Kimbrough
A & E Railroad
TRF MN
Spookshow Int'l <spoo...@uswest.net> wrote in message
news:E6b_3.18$Qc7....@news.uswest.net...
Paul Tackowiak
> Since no one seems to have answered my original question, allow me to ask it
> again. Will adding ballast reduce or change the noise characteristics of the
> track?
No.
Jon Miller
have an effect. White glue dries hard and has a larger increase in db than
will a latex type glue which will remain rubbery.
I am convinced that the best way to lay track is to use either Homasote
or cork roadbed. Glue it down with "Liquid Nails" FRP adhesive or like
material. This is a latex based glue. Use pins to hold the track in place
and apply ballast at the same time. When this is all dry, sweep up the
loose ballast (saving the excess to use again), and fill in with additional
ballast using the eye dropper method and a latex type adhesive.
I am going to use the spline method on my new layout however I have only
done a small section to date as a test. I like it but it may be too much
work for some. Take a lot of time and care laying your track as you will
find out it is the most important part of your layout.
Fred Dabney
chuck kimbrough wrote in message ...
>Adding and gluing ballast will only increase the sounds transmitted to the
>sub bed. Get it the way you want it before you do the finishing work.
>> track? Or will I have to relay my track using roadbed if I want to muffle
>> any of that tinny wheel-on-track noise?
I've read that there are additives you can put in white glue that makes the
cured product much more flexible, and some use liquid matte medium instead
of white glue for ballast. I'm told that either makes a much quieter
track, but haven't tried it.
>> Roe Thomas wrote in message <383866CD...@ptialaska.net>...
>> >Noisy Train's !! My my what a novel concept, in the real world I've
>> >never seen a stelth train that makes no sound. Roe
Stay off the tracks now, since if a track has be done using continuous
welded rail, a drifting cut of cars can sneak up on you, with potentially
fatal results. I watch them switch in the local yard a lot, and the main
is CWR. If they are building up a train on the main, (which they sometimes
do) you don't hear a thing until a rolling cut hits the standing block.
Spooky...
Fred D.
Roger P. Hensley
>
> If it sounded ANYTHING like a real train, I wouldn't mind!
>
> again. Will adding ballast reduce or change the noise characteristics of the
> track? Or will I have to relay my track using roadbed if I want to muffle
> any of that tinny wheel-on-track noise?
still be noisy after you ballast and probably even a little more.
If you put your track right on wood, pull it, put it on a roadbed
and relay it. Just do it. You will spend hours trying to get rid
of the sound that you build in. :-(
Roger
Roger Hensley
00rph...@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhen...@anderson.cioe.com
== http://www.nmra.org/standards ===============================
== NMRA Standards and Recommended Practices ====================
Spookshow Int'l
Roger P. Hensley <00rph...@bsuvc.bsu.edu> wrote in message
<3839DE...@bsuvc.bsu.edu>...
> If you put your track right on wood, pull it, put it on a roadbed
> and relay it. Just do it. You will spend hours trying to get rid
> of the sound that you build in. :-(
It's glued on top of styrofoam. Which kind of surprised me, I thought the
styrofoam would baffle the sound like cork roadbed does, but I guess not.
The trouble is, I purposely decided to omit cork roadbed from this section
of my layout because most of it is yard, siding, and spur track (as opposed
to mainline) and N-scale track perched atop cork roadbed looks ridiculously
high to me eye. If adding roadbed is the only way to muffle the noise, then
so be it. Noisy trains it is.
-Mark
LarEyman
>so be it. Noisy trains it is.
>
>
Hey Mark. This sounds fairly prototype to me. All the trains I have ever stood
by and watched go by were very noisy. :-)
Larry at Papas Trains
http://members.aol.com/lareyman
Jon Miller
expert can explain it. Use a sheet of Homosote for yard area. This is a
method in use for 40 years and a better method has not been found. 1/2 inch
plywood with 1/2 inch Homosote on top and then track!
Harry Mantheakis
"Spookshow Int'l" <ma...@nbs-inc.com> wrote:
> The trouble is, I purposely decided to omit cork roadbed from this
section of my layout because most of it is yard, siding, and spur track
(as opposed to mainline) and N-scale track perched atop cork roadbed
looks ridiculously high to me eye. If adding roadbed is the only way to
muffle the noise, then so be it. Noisy trains it is.
Mark, have you thought of laying cork sheets to cover not just the track
road but also the surrounding area? That way your track stays "flat" in
relation to its immediate surroundings, but you get the benefit of
having a cork layer. (I should add that I do not know for a fact that
cork reduces noise. I am simply offering a logical solution to your
problem. It is true that gluing ballastg with white glue aggravates the
noise problem.) Good luck. Harry.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Paul Welsh
>
<snip>
> >> Roe Thomas wrote in message <383866CD...@ptialaska.net>...
> >> >Noisy Train's !! My my what a novel concept, in the real world I've
> >> >never seen a stelth train that makes no sound. Roe
>
> Stay off the tracks now, since if a track has be done using continuous
> welded rail, a drifting cut of cars can sneak up on you, with potentially
> fatal results. I watch them switch in the local yard a lot, and the main
> is CWR. If they are building up a train on the main, (which they sometimes
> do) you don't hear a thing until a rolling cut hits the standing block.
>
> Spooky...
One member of the switchcrew on my regular job stepped out in front of a
box car which was silently drifting down the yard lead. He lived long
enough for his family to be called and get to the yard before they
lifted the car off him. Fortunately I had laid off that night.
Rolling cars can, indeed, be virtually silent. And that includes rails
with joints and solid journal bearings in the trucks. Yard workers are
trained to always expect movement and NOT depend on their hearing (you
always look), but sometimes even the pros get careless.
--
___
___|0|_|___ Paul Welsh
| D&RGW | "I never saw a model railroad, or hamburger, I didn't like"
= oo---oo = Email: exd...@bellatlantic.net
Randy
We are in the process of building our pike and noise has been a major
concern of ours too. It seems to me that there are a couple of ideas that
have to be rediscovered every once in a while and there are some tradeoffs
that have to be made.
The number one noise reduction tool we have found is "mass" (no, praying
about the noise doesn't help it. I'm talking about physical mass :-) )
Our pike's current yard is L-girders with a layer of 3/4" plywood
laminated to a layer of 3/4" MDF. The two layers are attached together
with a coating of liquid nails cement. The mainline, in addition, has a
strip of 1/8" cork underneath it. (This is not cork roadbed, but that
stuff you buy in rolls at the hardware store for bullatin boards) The
trackwork is handlaid code 83 and code 70 epoxied (not spiked) to the
ties. The ballast is glued in place with acryilic matt medium.
A couple of observations...
I can't really evaluate at this time wether the cork roadbed adds anything
to the noise reduction as the yard is not completed enough.
The reason we used MDF is because homosote is not dimensionally stable
and this layout is in an unheated garage with a rather large temperature
swing. Also MDF has been used in speaker enclosures for years due to its
sound deadening capabilities.
We chose to use a thin (1/8") layer of cork also because it is unstable
in temperature changes and the thin layer can easily be controlled by the
MDF layer. We also needed to raise the mainline up a little.
We chose to epoxy rails maily because MDF is rather tough to spike in to.
Not a problem if your laying ready-to-run track, but a definate problem
for handlaid. I also have a reference source that claims in temperature
extremes, epoxy performs better than spikes.
The mass in this roadbed "really" dampens the noise well. I had considered
using foam for is easy of construction, but the mass of the traditional
hardshell would be hard to turn down ofter seeng this perform. However,
this is not a layout I would want to have to move :-)
Also, since the coark has square cut edges, you have to cut it slightly
smaller than the ballast and shape the ballest by hand.
--Randy
On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Spookshow Int'l wrote:
>
> Roger P. Hensley <00rph...@bsuvc.bsu.edu> wrote in message
> <3839DE...@bsuvc.bsu.edu>...
>
> > If you put your track right on wood, pull it, put it on a roadbed
> > and relay it. Just do it. You will spend hours trying to get rid
> > of the sound that you build in. :-(
>
> It's glued on top of styrofoam. Which kind of surprised me, I thought the
> styrofoam would baffle the sound like cork roadbed does, but I guess not.
>
> The trouble is, I purposely decided to omit cork roadbed from this section
> of my layout because most of it is yard, siding, and spur track (as opposed
> to mainline) and N-scale track perched atop cork roadbed looks ridiculously
> high to me eye. If adding roadbed is the only way to muffle the noise, then
> so be it. Noisy trains it is.
>
> -Mark
>
>
>
>
Randy
I just obtained my first soundtraxx sound module recently. I have to
admit, I don't want to hear the toy train either. What I want to hear is
the sound module's diesel rumble and turbocharger whine.
whiny gears is'nt appealing to me :-)
--Randy
On 23 Nov 1999, LarEyman wrote:
> >If adding roadbed is the only way to muffle the noise, then
> >so be it. Noisy trains it is.
> >
> >
>
Spookshow Int'l
-Mark
Jon Miller wrote in message ...
bu...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
use cork. Also use a flexible glue for the cork and ballast. Even when you
put sheets of cork down (the kind found on roles at Hobby Lobby, Home Depot,
Payless, etc.) you need to glue it with flexible glue, both cork and ballast.
Jim Budde
KSF&P RR
> The trouble is, I purposely decided to omit cork roadbed from this section
> of my layout because most of it is yard, siding, and spur track (as opposed
> to mainline) and N-scale track perched atop cork roadbed looks ridiculously
> high to me eye. If adding roadbed is the only way to muffle the noise, then
> so be it. Noisy trains it is.
>
> -Mark
>
>
bu...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
If your model trains are too noisy, you couldn't hear how quiet your new OMI
PA1-B1s run.
Jim Budde
KSF&P RR
In article <19991123110341...@ng-fs1.aol.com>, lare...@aol.com
(LarEyman) writes:
>>If adding roadbed is the only way to muffle the noise, then
>>so be it. Noisy trains it is.
>>
>>
>
Pete
>It's glued on top of styrofoam. Which kind of surprised me, I thought the
>styrofoam would baffle the sound like cork roadbed does, but I guess not.
>
Especially if it's not sitting on a solid surface i.e. plywood.
Go to the home improvement store and get some bulitinboard cork. Cover the
whole yard with it. It will still look flat but the sound will be reduced.
Good luck,
Pete
>The trouble is, I purposely decided to omit cork roadbed from this section
>of my layout because most of it is yard, siding, and spur track (as opposed
>to mainline) and N-scale track perched atop cork roadbed looks ridiculously
>high to me eye. If adding roadbed is the only way to muffle the noise, then
>so be it. Noisy trains it is.
>
>-Mark
>
>
Jon Miller
the product you need, they have changed the name of their products recently.
Home Depot can get it as well as other lumber type stores. Get the 4' x 8'
sheet and cut what you want.
Homasote roadbed is made by Homabed, go to www.homabed.com
Jon Miller
paint before doing anything. This will seal it if you live in a damp
climate. I go to Home Depot and get the "mistake" paint in any shade of
gray or brown (sorta match your ballast, cheap is the key word here) you can
find. Sometimes as cheap as $1.00 a gallon.
Harry Mantheakis
bu...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu wrote:
> Visitors comment that my layout is very quiet. The reason is as Mark
stated, use cork. Also use a flexible glue for the cork and ballast.
Even when you put sheets of cork down (the kind found on roles at Hobby
Lobby, Home Depot, Payless, etc.) you need to glue it with flexible
glue, both cork and ballast.
Jim, can you tell us what "flexible glue" is? A generic name would be
useful, because I can then find out what we call it here in the UK. I
take it this not white wood glue.
TIA Harry.
Londo
Harry Mantheakis
Randy <rri...@anr.net> wrote:
> strip of 1/8" cork underneath it. (This is not cork roadbed, but that
> stuff you buy in rolls at the hardware store for bullatin boards) The
> trackwork is handlaid code 83 and code 70 epoxied (not spiked) to the
> ties. The ballast is glued in place with acryilic matt medium.
Randy, could you tell me what "acryilic matt medium" is? I take it is an
alternative to white wood glue. TIA Harry in London, UK.
Randy
It's an acrylic (plastic) glue used to spray over artwork to "fix" it.
My wife draws in pencil and charcoal and then sprays it with this product.
The result is a non-glare finish that protects the drawing from smudges.
She buys it in spray cans.
I found a local Art shop that sells it in a 1 quart can. I mix it 1 part
glue to 6 parts water and then put it in a squeeze bottle. After applying
the ballast to the track I "wet" the ballast with a wetting solution like
detergent & water (lightly!) and then dribble the acrylic glue from the
squeeze bottle over the ballast.
I find it is easiest to apply the ballast in two phases. fill in between
the rails, let it set and then fill and shape the outer edges and let them
set.
--Randy
Fred Dabney
>--Randy
>>> Randy, could you tell me what "acryilic matt medium" is? I take it is an
>> alternative to white wood glue. TIA Harry in London, UK.
"Matte" medium. Matte, as distinct from gloss, which art supply stores
also sell. Not only is it used as a fixative after making drawings,
water colors, etc to protect the surface, but as a "medium" it can be
used as a carrier for pigments added by the artist.
Check in art supply stores- it should be a universal generic name, althoug
brand names may differ the function should be a constant. Then when you
know what it is, you should be able to find it in bulk, cheaper.
From what I've read, there are few of the glories of living in the US not
shared by the rest of the industrialized world, including discount stores
that sell everything but third-world children...
Fred D.
Harry Mantheakis
Randy <rri...@anr.net> wrote:
Randy, on the subject of using Acrylic Matte Medium to glue track
ballast in order to take advantage of its sound deadening properties...
I am planning a 8x4 foot layout which I will on occasions need to place
vertically up against the wall (in order to accommodate someone in our
spare room...).
It is important therefore to ensure that all the track and ballast stays
put whilst being subjected to lateral gravitational forces!
In your opinion, is Acrylic Matte Medium strong enough to hold the track
and ballast in place? (I shall be nailing the tracks down for good
measure.)
Many thanks.
Harry Mantheakis.
London
CT
> In your opinion, is Acrylic Matte Medium strong enough to hold the track
> and ballast in place? (I shall be nailing the tracks down for good
> measure.)
Yes. Generically, it is the stuff that holds paint to the walls. It is a
more permanent joint than white glue because daily household vibrations
don't effect it.
Christian
Brockport
Randy
forces on it, But it's pretty tough to tear up the track when you go to
change things.
Of course, Where I have used this, I also have handlaid track that is
epoxied to ties, which are glued using standard woodworkers glue to the
cork.
The cork always rips in the removal process
--Randy
On Thu, 25 Nov 1999, Harry Mantheakis wrote:
> In article <Pine.LNX.3.93.99112...@plato.nmia.com>,
> Randy <rri...@anr.net> wrote:
>
> Randy, on the subject of using Acrylic Matte Medium to glue track
> ballast in order to take advantage of its sound deadening properties...
>
> I am planning a 8x4 foot layout which I will on occasions need to place
> vertically up against the wall (in order to accommodate someone in our
> spare room...).
>
> It is important therefore to ensure that all the track and ballast stays
> put whilst being subjected to lateral gravitational forces!
>
> In your opinion, is Acrylic Matte Medium strong enough to hold the track
> and ballast in place? (I shall be nailing the tracks down for good
> measure.)
>
Bob Davis
diluted. But then, a weaker mix makes a more pliable - and thus quieter -
track.
I went with 70% water/30% Weldbond (a pliable white glue) on 20 feet of
track; it works well but is harder (and louder) than I'd like. I switched
to 50% water/50% Woodland Scenics Latex Rubber for the next 80 feet; it is
softer (and as quiet) as I like. But a kid has already nicked the roadbed
on this, and it busted up pretty easily. I don't think it would all stay
attached if it was propped up for a week.
For both of them I'm using rubber ballast. Far quieter than rock or clay,
but takes more detergent to break the viscosity of the water/medium mix. In
fact I use so much wetting solution it amounts to another 10% cut of the
final mix in the track and ballast.
-- Bob
Visit the NPF Railway, updated 11/11/99!
http://www.nwlink.com/~bobdavis/railroad.htm
Randy <rri...@anr.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.3.93.991126...@plato.nmia.com...
chuck kimbrough
grit for ballast on a g gauge module. It stands on end most of the time. I
have lost very little ballast in 3 years.
--
Charles Kimbrough
A & E Railroad
TRF MN
Harry Mantheakis <manth...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:81jsvr$u68$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...