(Proposed) Regulations of the NMRA

[Mark Mathu]

By now NMRA members should have received their national ballots, including
the proposed regulations intended to replace the current constitution and
bylaws.

Although change strictly for the sake of change isn't a good thing, after a
first read through the document tonight I like what is being done and I am
inclined to vote in favor of changes, as recommended by the Board of
Trustees.

A change as large as this one deserves discussion, and I've included a few
comments about the proposed regulations below. Please correct what points I
may be missing in my comments, and I hope that others who have comments on
what is in (or isn't in) the proposed regulations add their comments also.

[NMRA members: Are you going to vote in favor of the proposed regulations?]

# # #

ARTICLE III - OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS
"8. No officer shall serve simultaneously as a member of
the Board of Directors."

This struck me as a bit strange - if I read this correctly, the officers
(President, Vice President, Secretary and Treasurer) do not have any votes on
the Board of Directors. I guess it makes sense for the Secretary and
Treasurer since their positions are not voted on by the membership, but in
most (all?) not-for-profit organizations I am involved with, the officers
have voting rights equal to the Directors.

# # #

ARTICLE III - OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS
"11. The Board of Directors of the NMRA shall consist of
nine members as set forth infra in the following
paragraphs. The NMRA President shall act as the Chairman of
the Board of Directors."

Again, this seems strange. The President is Chairman of the Board, but has
no voting rights?

# # #

ARTICLE III - OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS
"14. Each district shall elect one representative to serve
on the Board of Directors. Candidates for each district
shall be nominated in the manner set forth in this Article
and any procedures adopted as policy in the EHB [Executive
Handbook], and with the qualifications set forth herein."

Are the district representatives required to be a member of that district?
Granted, it would be unusual to have a representative that was a member of
another district (or not even an NMRA member at all), but I'm surprised this
isn't explicitly called out in the proposed regulations.

# # #

ARTICLE III - OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS
21. The term of office of a Director shall be for three
years.
"C. The terms of office shall be staggered so that the
terms of three Directors expire each year. However, for
the first Board of Directors elected under these revised
Regulations in [year], the terms of three Directors will
be one year and three other Directors will be two years,
as determined by drawing lots at the first meeting of
such Board of Directors."

Obviously "2004" needs to be substituted for "[year]" -- unless the Board
doesn't think the proposed regulations will pass on the first ballot?

# # #

ARTICLE III - OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS
23. Should an elected officer be suspected of misuse of
office, misconduct, detrimental performance or malfeasance
in office, the officer can be removed by the following
procedures:
"B. Within sixty days thereafter, the Board shall meet
to hear from the accused and the accusers."
"C. If the Board feels that the charges are sustained, a
three-fourths majority in favor of a motion to remove
the officer from office will effect the action. If not,
the officer shall be reinstated."

Does the "if not" in the last sentence mean that if the vote doesn't get
three-fourths majority, the officer shall be reinstated? Or does it mean
that if no motion to remove the officer from office if made, the officer
shall be reinstated?

It seems like there could be limbo in the case that the Board meets to hear
the accused and the accusers, but then doesn't take any action on the matter.
If that occurs, does the officer remain suspended until a vote is held, or
does he/she become reinstated if no vote is taken? [At a minimum, the
proposed regulations should have had a certain period after the board meeting
called for in section B above that an up-or-down vote on the officer would be
held.]

# # #

ARTICLE IV - MEMBERSHIP AND DUES
1. All dues shall be paid in U.S. dollars, or their
equivalent and shall be pursuant to a schedule of dues
adopted by the Board of Directors for each category of
membership, which shall be published in the Executive
Handbook (EHB). There shall be following classes of
membership for which the following rights and obligations
apply:
"J. Legacy Member: Any member who is existing as a
member as of July 1, 2002, in a classification of
regular member of the national structure, but not a
member of a region or in different classes of membership
between National and Regional as of July 1, 2002, shall
be authorized to continue as a Legacy Member, upon
payment of the proportion of dues established by the
Board of Directors as representing that necessary to
sustain and support the national programs as delineated
in these Regulations and in the executive handbook, but
not any additional funds delineated and designed to
support local, i.e., regional and divisional activities.
Said Legacy Membership shall continue as long as said
Legacy Member maintains his membership in a current
state. If said membership lapses for any reason, said
member shall not be allowed to re-apply as a Legacy
Member and shall be required to join in any other
category of membership. ..."

It seems that this is the phase-out of the Affiliate Member status (regular
membership minus a subscription to the NMRA Bulletin).

# # #

ARTICLE IV - MEMBERSHIP AND DUES
4. Dues
"G. The dues shall be indexed to a national index as
specified by the Board of Directors and specifically the
United States Consumer Price Index. The allocation and
the index utilized by National in setting dues may only
be changed in accordance with these Regulations."

Good or bad? This will allow the Board to raise dues without a membership
vote.

# # #

ARTICLE VI - DEPARTMENTS
"3. The President shall appoint all departmental managers,
not including the Administration Department Manager and the
Kalmbach Memorial Library Director, and the Curator of the
Howell Day Memorial Museum. ..."

Who does appoint the Administration Department Manager, Kalmbach Memorial
Library Director and the Curator of the Howell Day Memorial Museum?

# # #

ARTICLE VI - DEPARTMENTS
"6. The Development Department shall consist of a Manager
and of the chairs of such various related committees, as
the Manager may deem necessary. The Department shall be
responsible to support professional staff development and
the coordination and execution of Association fundraising
programs."

What is involved in professional staff development? Having a paid staff that
is motivated and wants to stay with the NMRA is very beneficial in my view.

# # #

ARTICLE VI - DEPARTMENTS
15. The President or his designee, who may be a committee,
shall conduct an annual review of the activities of each
department. This review shall be conducted after each
annual meeting but before the mid-year meeting or the
commencement of the work to prepare the next years budget.
A. This review of each departments past years
performance shall include, but not be limited to:
"3. What activities should be added, deleted,
expanded, contracted or modified, together with
anticipated fiscal and non-fiscal impacts and the
bases of such projections. This item is the
Presidents prerogative."

Another minor editorial change - In section 3 "Presidents" should be
possessive, not plural.

# # #

ARTICLE VIII - REGIONAL/DIVISIONAL ORGANIZATION
8. Established regional boundaries may be changed as
follows:
"A. Two-thirds of the region members residing within a
specified 3 digit Postal Zip Code area and adjoining
another region must sign a petition to change their
region affiliation to the adjoining region and submit
said petition to the governing body of both regions
involved."

Does anything think this requirement is steep? I guess we certainly don't
want a change every time 50% of the membership wants to re-align, but getting
two-thirds of the members on a petition seems very restrictive, especially
considering how difficult it would be to get the petition to most members if
the established governing bodies are opposed to the change. A much smaller
petition requirement, say 20%-25% with a two-thirds ballot majority seems
like a more reasonable mechanism.

# # #

ARTICLE VIII - REGIONAL/DIVISIONAL ORGANIZATION
9. Regional organizations of the NMRA may be established
thusly:
"A. Upon petition of fifty or more regularly enrolled
members of the NMRA, all of whom are from any logical
geographic area, the right to organize an NMRA region
may be granted. The petition shall be directed to the
Board of Directors and addressed to the Secretary. It
shall designate one of the signers thereof as temporary
chair in charge of the organizational activities."

This goes back to my directly prior comment. It's far easier to petition
establish a new regional organization than realign an existing one.

# # #

ARTICLE XII - INITIATIVE AND REFERENDUM
"1. The membership and/or RAC [Regional Advisory Council]
shall have the right, by petition as provided for
hereafter, to have any action taken by the Board of
Directors or any proposition submitted to the membership
for a vote at any election."

It seems that the Board of Directors action will remain in effect during the
interim until the membership vote occurs?

--
Mark Mathu
The Green Bay Route: http://www.greenbayroute.com/
"I started out with nothing and I still have most of it."

[JBortle]

Just as a point of information,

>
> ARTICLE IV - MEMBERSHIP AND DUES
> 4. Dues
> "G. The dues shall be indexed to a national index as
> specified by the Board of Directors and specifically the
> United States Consumer Price Index. The allocation and
> the index utilized by National in setting dues may only
> be changed in accordance with these Regulations."
>
>Good or bad? This will allow the Board to raise dues without a membership
>vote.
>

The big dues hike of about 2 years ago was instituted without any approval
vote by the membership. It was decided upon strictly by a vote of the BOD. More
than 3,000 members, including myself, left the organization as a result. The
above article implies that dues would hereafter be raised annually, or perhaps
every couple of years with a compounded CPI, without any say from the
membership. With that kind of disregard of membership say it's not the kind of
organization I'd care to a part of.

CNJ999

[Mike Fletcher]

This is why I have never joined the NMRA. To much BS.

Anyone remember that this is supposed to be a fun hobby?

Is there anyone actually running trains, or are you all just sitting
around your computers posting stuff that has absolutely nothing to do
with trains.

Mike...
"We're not retreating, we're advancing in another direction"

"Mark Mathu" <ma...@mathu.com> wrote in message news:<zvT2c.43736$QP....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>...

[wanna...@cogeco.cant]

"Mark Mathu" <ma...@mathu.com> wrote in message
news:zvT2c.43736$QP....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...

As I read it, there has to be nine Board members and 4 Officers and each
must be held by a different individual.

> # # #
>
> ARTICLE III - OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS
> "11. The Board of Directors of the NMRA shall consist of
> nine members as set forth infra in the following
> paragraphs. The NMRA President shall act as the Chairman of
> the Board of Directors."
>
> Again, this seems strange. The President is Chairman of the Board, but
has
> no voting rights?
>

Where does it say no voting rights???

On all documents of this nature, dates are not specified until the changes
are approved.

> # # #
>
> ARTICLE III - OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS
> 23. Should an elected officer be suspected of misuse of
> office, misconduct, detrimental performance or malfeasance
> in office, the officer can be removed by the following
> procedures:
> "B. Within sixty days thereafter, the Board shall meet
> to hear from the accused and the accusers."
> "C. If the Board feels that the charges are sustained, a
> three-fourths majority in favor of a motion to remove
> the officer from office will effect the action. If not,
> the officer shall be reinstated."
>
> Does the "if not" in the last sentence mean that if the vote doesn't get
> three-fourths majority, the officer shall be reinstated? Or does it mean
> that if no motion to remove the officer from office if made, the officer
> shall be reinstated?
>

Yes and yes.

Where does it say "Affiliate Member"? They are talking about an old
classification "Legacy Member". If you look on the website, "Affiliate
Member" is still listed while "Legacy Member" is not.

> # # #
>
> ARTICLE IV - MEMBERSHIP AND DUES
> 4. Dues
> "G. The dues shall be indexed to a national index as
> specified by the Board of Directors and specifically the
> United States Consumer Price Index. The allocation and
> the index utilized by National in setting dues may only
> be changed in accordance with these Regulations."
>
> Good or bad? This will allow the Board to raise dues without a membership
> vote.
>

Yes, This indicates that dues can be raised only to the amount set by the US
CPI. If the CPI say there is a 5% increase, then the Board can put dues up
5% without a vote.

> # # #
>
> ARTICLE VI - DEPARTMENTS
> "3. The President shall appoint all departmental managers,
> not including the Administration Department Manager and the
> Kalmbach Memorial Library Director, and the Curator of the
> Howell Day Memorial Museum. ..."
>
> Who does appoint the Administration Department Manager, Kalmbach Memorial
> Library Director and the Curator of the Howell Day Memorial Museum?
>

Well, the Kalmbach Memorial Library is an entity above the NMRA, so it would
handle it's own appointments. Also, the howell Day Museum has a full time
staff employed not appointed. These two entities are businesses not
organizations. The Administration Department also has a staff of paid
employees.

> # # #
>
> ARTICLE VIII - REGIONAL/DIVISIONAL ORGANIZATION
> 8. Established regional boundaries may be changed as
> follows:
> "A. Two-thirds of the region members residing within a
> specified 3 digit Postal Zip Code area and adjoining
> another region must sign a petition to change their
> region affiliation to the adjoining region and submit
> said petition to the governing body of both regions
> involved."
>
> Does anything think this requirement is steep? I guess we certainly don't
> want a change every time 50% of the membership wants to re-align, but
getting
> two-thirds of the members on a petition seems very restrictive, especially
> considering how difficult it would be to get the petition to most members
if
> the established governing bodies are opposed to the change. A much
smaller
> petition requirement, say 20%-25% with a two-thirds ballot majority seems
> like a more reasonable mechanism.
>

2/3 on a petition is pretty standard. How often would this really come up?

> # # #
>
> ARTICLE VIII - REGIONAL/DIVISIONAL ORGANIZATION
> 9. Regional organizations of the NMRA may be established
> thusly:
> "A. Upon petition of fifty or more regularly enrolled
> members of the NMRA, all of whom are from any logical
> geographic area, the right to organize an NMRA region
> may be granted. The petition shall be directed to the
> Board of Directors and addressed to the Secretary. It
> shall designate one of the signers thereof as temporary
> chair in charge of the organizational activities."
>
> This goes back to my directly prior comment. It's far easier to petition
> establish a new regional organization than realign an existing one.
>

Most people would not care to "Start" a region, as it requires they set up
the entire regional staff. It is a lot of work to start a region.

> # # #
>
> ARTICLE XII - INITIATIVE AND REFERENDUM
> "1. The membership and/or RAC [Regional Advisory Council]
> shall have the right, by petition as provided for
> hereafter, to have any action taken by the Board of
> Directors or any proposition submitted to the membership
> for a vote at any election."
>
> It seems that the Board of Directors action will remain in effect during
the
> interim until the membership vote occurs?
>

The "vote" refered to could be a Regional one or a National one and where
does it say that it will be a vote to remove a Director? It is a vote for
"action" this could be for anything.

That being said, I do not belong to the NMRA as I do not see any benefit to
me as a Canadian.
I belong to the Canadian Association of Railroad Modelers.

[chooch]

"Mark Mathu" <ma...@mathu.com> wrote in message news:<zvT2c.43736$QP....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>...

> By now NMRA members should have received their national ballots, including
> the proposed regulations intended to replace the current constitution and
> bylaws.
>
> Although change strictly for the sake of change isn't a good thing, after a
> first read through the document tonight I like what is being done and I am
> inclined to vote in favor of changes, as recommended by the Board of
> Trustees.
>

<<<<<Major freakin snip!>>>

TOOOOOOOOO much leagalese for such a small organization. No wonder the
NMRA is dying. It's suffocating under the weight of its own excess of
overhead.

[Wolf Kirchmeir]

On 8 Mar 2004 07:01:13 -0800, chooch wrote:

=>TOOOOOOOOO much leagalese for such a small organization. No wonder the
=>NMRA is dying. It's suffocating under the weight of its own excess of
=>overhead.

The legalese is required by law. All voluntary organisations that claim
charitable status must now be incorporated, etc. Basically, the Regulations
(Bylaws in Canada) follow the form prescribed or suggested by the applicable
law. Nothing to be done about it.

Wolf Kirchmeir
.................................
If you didn't want to go to Chicago, why did you get on this train?
(Garrison Keillor)
<just one w and plain ca for correct address>

[Geezer]

"Mark Mathu" <ma...@mathu.com> wrote in message
news:zvT2c.43736$QP....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...

I read this differently. I'm a long time life member of the national, but
not of my region (having moved between regions in the past and perhaps
again). I think this means I will become a Legacy member ("different
classes of membership between National and Regional") and that if I fail to
pay the new "proportion of dues established" whatever that may be, I will
lose my NMRA membership and will be required to re-join. I wonder if that
wouldn't be a breach of contract? Gary Q

[Howard R Garner]

My understanding is you would be a 'Legacy' member and if you NMRA
membership were to lapse you would be required to pay into a region.

(Not that a life member would be renewing after a lapse)

Howard
NMRA lifer

[Larry Blanchard]

In article <_ZZ2c.5150$n37.3...@read2.cgocable.net>,
wanna...@cogeco.cant says...

> > It seems that this is the phase-out of the Affiliate Member status
> (regular
> > membership minus a subscription to the NMRA Bulletin).
> >
>
> Where does it say "Affiliate Member"? They are talking about an old
> classification "Legacy Member". If you look on the website, "Affiliate
> Member" is still listed while "Legacy Member" is not.
>

The new categories will be "member without subscription" and
"member with subscription".

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

[Larry Blanchard]

In article <21bp409t8nvb40nij...@4ax.com>,
Whod...@mindspring.net says...
> I have no use for regions, they are a totally unnecessary
> echelon; never joined one.
>
Out of curiosity, what NMRA activities do you participate in
that don't involve a region or division?

[Mark Mathu]

jbo...@aol.com (JBortle) wrote in message news:<20040308071250...@mb-m16.aol.com>...

> The above article implies that dues would hereafter be raised annually, or
> perhaps every couple of years with a compounded CPI, without any say from the
> membership. With that kind of disregard of membership say it's not the kind
> of organization I'd care to a part of.

The current NMRA bylaws requires any motion for a dues increase to be
published in the Bulletin, and the Board of Trustees can not act on
the motion until the next meeting after it has been published. The
proposed regulations will require the same method for any increases
beyond the index.

The purpose of that is to make the membership aware of the motion, and
to solicit comments about it.

I've seen a dues increase mechanism similar to what is proposed in
several of the organizations I belong to. Over time, the creep of
inflation, salaries & benefits, changes in the scope of services, etc.
can erode the finances of an organization that has a fixed dues
structure that requires a full membership vote to change.

[Stan Ames]

Geezer wrote:

>
>
> I read this differently. I'm a long time life member of the national, but
> not of my region (having moved between regions in the past and perhaps
> again). I think this means I will become a Legacy member ("different
> classes of membership between National and Regional") and that if I fail to
> pay the new "proportion of dues established" whatever that may be, I will
> lose my NMRA membership and will be required to re-join. I wonder if that
> wouldn't be a breach of contract? Gary Q

Gary

I am the Northeastern Region Trustee of the NMRA and have been very active in
the creation of the new regulations. Perhaps I can help answer your concern.

I by the way am a life member of the NMRA and not a life member of my Region so
I needed to understand this from my own perspective as well.

If the NMRA members approve the new regulations (and I sincerely hope they do)
then we will have a unified organization with membership rights spelled out.

Existing Life Members will have a choice.

They can pay no additional fee and remain a Legacy Life Member of the NMRA with
no change in their membership rights.

or they can pay an amortized fee (yet to be determined) to become a Life
Member of the entire NMRA (National, Region, Division).

The choice is entirely the members right to choose but in neither case do you
loose any of your current membership rights and privileges.

----------
Stan Ames ne...@hq.nmra.org
NMRA Northeastern Region Trustee
www.nmra.org

[Mark Mathu]

fogh...@swbell.net (Mike Fletcher) wrote in message news:<9fab4a3d.04030...@posting.google.com>...

> Is there anyone actually running trains, or are you all just sitting
> around your computers posting stuff that has absolutely nothing to do
> with trains.

Are you saying that the proposed changes to the NMRA's structure has
nothing to do with model railroading?

This is rec.models.railroad, after all.

[Howard R Garner]

Stan,
From this I assume if you are an NMRA life member and a Region life
member you are OK.
Down here in the SER there are no required division dues that I am aware of.

Howard
NMRA lifer 1425

[Jon Miller]

>or they can pay an amortized fee (yet to be determined) to become a Life
Member of the entire NMRA (National, Region, Division)<

And as someone said "there's the rub". Some area's have _now_ have no
fees, and others have a range of fees from a couple of bucks to, as I heard
yesterday, around 25 bucks. While I voted for the change I suspect it's
really going to be hard to amortized a national level fee ranging from 0 to
25!
There are no rules that say the individuals regions can't charge
additional monies, say for a meeting, etc. so that being the case why would
a life member chose to give additional money to the national when they can
receive the same benefits that they currently receive by (as an example--
paying a fee at the door)! And may regions and divisions are going to have
to charge some monies somewhere as their current costs will require that.
I really doubt the above concept is going to work! Besides a Life
member under the change _IS_ a member of the total NMRA structure unless you
read something I didn't!

[Stan Ames]

Whod...@mindspring.com wrote:

> That seems to address my concerns but wonder why this isn't more
> explicitly promoted? As I read the "regs" current NMRA members, not
> members of a region, would become "Legacy Member" retaining all they
> have for the rest of their subscription/membership period. After that
> they must join as regular members with the added fees for regional
> support.

Let me try to clarify this for you.

Any member that desires can remain a legacy member for as long as they wish to
remain a member with no additional fee collected for support of the
Regions/Divisions but with no additional membership rights at the region/division
level. New members will not be offered the legacy membership option.

> I could find no clear section of the regs covering existing "lifers"
> who are not regional members and who wish to remain so. I have also
> read, from no official source I must admit, that "lifers" opting out
> of the to " pay an amortized fee (yet to be determined) to become a
> Life Member of the entire NMRA (National, Region, Division)" would no
> longer receive the Bully.

Let me provide you an official source. Life members of the NMRA will continue to
receive the publication of the organization as they do today whether or not they
choose to remain a legacy member or decide to become a life member across the
organization. There are dozens ot cases for the legacy members and each was
carefully addressed to ensure that they continued to receive all the benefits they
had before.

> Too bad the "regs" lacked at least footnotes to cover this issue in
> detail. The new "regs" will surely pass but this omission got a "no"
> vote from me.

Sorry to hear that your confusion resulted in a negative vote. Regulations are by
definition written to ensure that the legal aspects of the corporation are
fulfilled. We tried to answer as many questions as possible but perhaps yours was
not adequately addressed in the National or Region publications.. Please feel free
to ask your trustee for any clarification to the regulations or ask on the NMRA list
or even here.

[Jon Miller]

>Life members of the NMRA will continue to receive the publication of the
organization as they do today whether or not they choose to remain a legacy
member or decide to become a life member across the organization.<

I think this pertains to Scale Rails. This could be read another way
and that would mean when they also, by default, become members of the region
etc. they would also continue to receive that publication.

>Any member that desires can remain a legacy member for as long as they wish
to remain a member with no additional fee collected for support of the
Regions/Divisions but with no additional membership rights at the
region/division
level.<

I believe this was put in for folks that were members of many
regions/divisions and does not pertain to the region to which they will be
assigned.

I believe we are talking apples and oranges here.

[Jon Miller]

I probably should say this different. Once the life member is assigned
a region they are now a member of that region just as they are a member of
the national because it will now be the same thing.
There are many persons that belong to multiple regions etc. They then
will become legacy members for those regions that follow these rules;

"Any member that desires can remain a legacy member for as long as they wish
to remain a member with no additional fee collected for support of the
Regions/Divisions but with no additional membership rights at the
region/division
level."

This has really nothing to do with the members officially assigned
region!

[Geezer]

"Stan Ames" <s...@mitre.org> wrote in message
news:404CC0D1...@mitre.org...

Thanks for the clarification. Gary Q

[David Williams]

> ARTICLE III - OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS
> "8. No officer shall serve simultaneously as a member of
> the Board of Directors."
>
> This struck me as a bit strange - if I read this correctly, the officers
> (President, Vice President, Secretary and Treasurer) do not have any votes
on
> the Board of Directors. I guess it makes sense for the Secretary and
> Treasurer since their positions are not voted on by the membership, but in
> most (all?) not-for-profit organizations I am involved with, the officers
> have voting rights equal to the Directors.

If only all for-profits had such a rule! This is a very serious problem
today.
In the NMRA, however, it seems like it wouldn't be so important.

David

[Larry Blanchard]

In article <m5fp409gq2s63cka9...@4ax.com>,
Whod...@mindspring.net says...

> >Out of curiosity, what NMRA activities do you participate in
> >that don't involve a region or division?
>

> I don't...first of all I joined NMRA for what it could give in
> advancing the hobby not because of any localized NMRA activities.
>
If by that you mean the standards effort, that gets less than a
dollar of your dues. That means you're not using most of the
$22 that doesn't go for a magazine :-).

[Ron Herfurth]

in article d5ff4fab.04030...@posting.google.com, chooch at
kbkc...@adelphia.net wrote on 3/8/04 10:01 AM:

I agree. The old bylaws etc were in pretty esay to understand English. The
new seems to be in lawyer speak.

--
Ron Herfurth
Charlottesville, VA

[Jon Miller]

>I agree. The old bylaws etc were in pretty easy to understand English. The

new seems to be in lawyer speak.<

Lawyer speak is required for incorporation at the location it being
incorporated at (state?). At least it was put together by NMRA
lawyers<VBG>.

[Mark Mathu]

"Larry Blanchard" <lbl...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:c2idc2$1tmp8d$5...@ID-124996.news.uni-berlin.de...

>>> It seems that this is the phase-out of the Affiliate Member status
>>> (regular membership minus a subscription to the NMRA Bulletin).
>>
>> Where does it say "Affiliate Member"? They are talking about an old
>> classification "Legacy Member". If you look on the website, "Affiliate
>> Member" is still listed while "Legacy Member" is not.
>
> The new categories will be "member without subscription" and
> "member with subscription".

I believe that the new categories you mean to refer to are "Member" and
"Member plus Subscription." See articles IV.1.A & IV.I.B.

Both of those memberships include a subscription to the Bulletin.

Is there a phase-out of the Affiliate membership (regular membership minus a
subscription to the NMRA Bulletin)?

[Mark Mathu]

"Ron Herfurth" <top...@cstone.net> wrote in message
news:BC729791.64AC3%top...@cstone.net...

>> TOOOOOOOOO much leagalese for such a small organization. No wonder the
>> NMRA is dying. It's suffocating under the weight of its own excess of
>> overhead.
>
> I agree. The old bylaws etc were in pretty esay to understand English. The
> new seems to be in lawyer speak.

We are replacing both the constitution and bylaws with a single document, so
you should compare the proposed regulations with those two existing
documents.
http://www.nmra.org/constitution.html
http://www.nmra.org/bylaws.html

I don't see much of a difference in the "legalese" (or whatever you and
chooch want to call it). We need a document that clearly spells out the
duties and obligations of the management of our 20,000+ member organization,
and this document seems to do that.

Ron, how would YOU have worded the new regulations?

[Ron Herfurth]

in article 404CD453...@mitre.org, Stan Ames at s...@mitre.org wrote on
3/8/04 3:15 PM:

I must be an idiot cause I still don't follow.

I'm a lifer in the NMRA but not the Mid-Eastern Region. Would I be a legacy
member of the NMRA or a legacy member of the Region? I understand that
Regions will no longer be able to collect dues but can charge for their
newsletter. I'll get the NMRA Bulletin/Scale rails for ever but what will it
cost me to subscribe to the MER Local? MER membership is currently $8.00 a
year but I haven't heard what they're planning to sell subscriptions to the
Local for.

The part about a legacy member's Region dues lapsing really blows my mind;
if the region can't collect dues how can my membership lapse? Do they mean
if my subscription to the Local lapses I'll have to have to buy a lifetime
subscription? If renew my subscription on time every year can I keep doing
that forever?

What about NMRA lifers who bought an MER life membership for several hundred
dollars? I Do they get screwed out of anything when someone new joins the
NMRA as a life member and automatically becomes a life member of their
Region for nothing extra? That's right isn't it? If Regions cannot collect
dues then isn't a new NMRA life member automatically a life member of their
Region (and Division?)?

Can a new NMRA life member subscribe to their region newsletter annually or
do they have to get a lifetime subscription since they are and NMRA life
member?

I'm in favor of the new plan I'd just like to know how much I am going to
owe the MER and how often I own it.

brain dead in Charlottesville, Va
Ron Herfurth

[Mark Mathu]

"wi...@CreditValley.Railway" <wanna...@cogeco.cant> wrote in message
news:<_ZZ2c.5150$n37.3...@read2.cgocable.net>...

> ...

> As I read it, there has to be nine Board members and 4 Officers and
> each must be held by a different individual.

But do the four officers (president, vice-president, secretary, treasurer)
also vote on motions, or do only the nine directors (Eastern, Central,
Western, Atlantic, Pacific, Regional Advisory Council, NMRA Canada, plus two
at-large directors) vote on motions?

> ...

> Where does it say no voting rights???

It seems that every regulation that requires Board approval is worded "the
Board of Directors, by a two-thirds majority, shall approve..." or something
similar (not worded as "the Board of Directors and the Officers"), and
article III.11 says "the Board of Directors of the NMRA shall consist of nine
members..." and then goes on to describe the nine director positions
(Eastern, Central, Western, Atlantic, Pacific, Regional Advisory Council,
NMRA Canada, plus two at-large directors). The Officers are not decribed as
being part of the Board of Directors (other than the president being the
Chairman of the Board),

It seems that all voting power to raise, approve or reject motions lies
solely with the nine Directors and the four Officers are more administrative
roles, as opposed to policy setting roles.

>> ...

>> Does the "if not" in the last sentence mean that if the vote doesn't get
>> three-fourths majority, the officer shall be reinstated? Or does it mean
>> that if no motion to remove the officer from office if made, the officer
>> shall be reinstated?
>
> Yes and yes.

In that case we should have a definite timeline established for bringing up a
motion for a vote on the officer. It needs to be clear when the motion can
be made as a follow-up to a board hearing to remove an officer. If no action
is taken at that Board meeting, can a motion to remove an officer still be
brought up a year or two later?

The procedures should explicitly say: "C. If the Board feels that the charges
are sustained, a motion to remove the officer from office must be made at the
same Board meeting [or within thirty days from the Board meeting held to hear
from the same Board meeting, or sixty days, etc.], and a three-fourths
majority in favor the motion will effect the action. If the motion fails or
if no action is taken at the Board meeting [or within thirty days, or within
sixty days, etc.] the officer shall be immediately reinstated."

While we certainly hope to never have to use this clause, it needs to be more
clearly defined in case accusations of misconduct are ever made.

If this situation ever occurs a motion to remove the officer could easily be
tabled while both sides try to lay out their case for removal or
reinstatement. We need to be a limit as to how long a motion to remove an
officer can be kept under consideration without a vote.

[For example, if the board members who want to remove an officer are a simple
majority, but not a three-quarters supermajority they would still have the
power to table the motion indefinitely without a vote. And then what? The
NMRA administration would be stuck in limbo while the motion to remove an
officer is indefinitely tabled -- with the officer suspended, but without any
action taken on replacing or reinstalling him or her.]

I just don't want to see this clause dragged into a grudge match. Hopefully
we will never see things get that ugly, but you never know and you have to be
ready to deal with that situation.

>> ...
>> It seems that this is the phase-out of the Affiliate Member status
>> (regular membership minus a subscription to the NMRA Bulletin).
>
> Where does it say "Affiliate Member"?

Affiliate membership status is not mentioned in the proposed regulations. It
is a membership status in the current bylaws. See current bylaw XI.1.F
("Affiliate Membership: Any person interested in model railroading may become
an Affiliate Member upon application to the Administration Department and
payment of a sum equal to one-half the annual dues for Regular Membership.").

> They are talking about an old classification "Legacy Member". If you
> look on the website, "Affiliate Member" is still listed while "Legacy
> Member" is not.

The proposed NMRA regulations have ten membership classes (Member, Member
plus Subscriptions, Sustaining, Family, Student, Life, Life Member plus Life
Subscriptions, Patron, Corporate and Legacy) - see Article IV, section 1.
Legacy membership is mentioned on the web site here:
http://www.nmra.org/news/regulations.pdf

But there is no mention of Affiliate membership in the proposed NMRA
regulations. What happens to Affiliate members?

Is the proposed Sustaining membership status the equivalent of the current
Affiliate membership?

> ...

> 2/3 on a petition is pretty standard. How often would this really come up?

Not often, if at all.

> ...

> Most people would not care to "Start" a region, as it requires they set up
> the entire regional staff. It is a lot of work to start a region.

Yeah -- pity the fifty people who sign the petition!

>> It seems that the Board of Directors action will remain in effect during
>> the interim until the membership vote occurs?
>
> The "vote" refered to could be a Regional one or a National one and where
> does it say that it will be a vote to remove a Director? It is a vote for
> "action" this could be for anything.

I did not write that it needed to be a vote to remove a Director and I did
not mean to imply that -- sorry. Yes, it could be anything that normally
doesn't require a full membership vote -- a new membership grade, a new
headquarters building, a dues increase less than the CPI, naming an award
after Rathburne, etc.

> That being said, I do not belong to the NMRA as I do not see any benefit to
> me as a Canadian.
> I belong to the Canadian Association of Railroad Modelers.

I don't follow: How does being a Canadian play a part in not seeing a benefit
to you? Why would that be any different than if a person were from Canada,
or Mississippi, or California?

If having a personal benefit is your criteria for belonging or not belonging
to the NMRA, fine. But I don't see how being a Canadian plays into that
criteria.

NMRA-Canada is a part of the overall NMRA structure. Of the nine Board
positions, members of NMRA-Canada have a voice in four of them: the Central
District, Regional Advisory Council and the two at-large Directors. And of
course they vote for the president and vice-president just like any other
NMRA member. I don’t see the regulations as being stacked against Canadians.

[Mark Mathu]

"Jon Miller" <at...@inow.com> wrote in message
news:104qc2f...@corp.supernews.com...

Attn. Stan Ames:
You said that you were very active in the creation of the new regulations.
Was a legal review necessary? I don't see why it would be, I don't think
much of this would ever fall in the realm of the courts.

It sure seems that the basic document is pretty straightforward and follows
the format of most constitutions and bylaws of volunteer organizations that I
am involved with.

[Mark Mathu]

"Larry Blanchard" <lbl...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message

news:c2idhe$1tmp8d$6...@ID-124996.news.uni-berlin.de...

>> I have no use for regions, they are a totally unnecessary
>> echelon; never joined one.
>>
> Out of curiosity, what NMRA activities do you participate in
> that don't involve a region or division?

I joined to help promote and standardize the hobby.

I rarely get to local events (two division meets and the regional meeting
which happened to fall on a convenient weekend and location) -- and this was
a good year!

[Stan Ames]

Mark Mathu wrote:

>
> Attn. Stan Ames:
> You said that you were very active in the creation of the new regulations.
> Was a legal review necessary? I don't see why it would be, I don't think
> much of this would ever fall in the realm of the courts.

Much has changed as a result of such things as Enron.

The NMRA is a 501C corporation and while we all enjoy model railroading there is
alas a legal aspect to ensure that the business of the corporation is taken care
of. If done properly this should all be transparent to the membership but it
still has to be done.

The BOT made all the decisions but the actual regulations were written by a legal
team that have expertise in such matters. Frankly I do not have the training to
judge the legal adequacy of the regulations but I have a lot of faith in the
expertise of the legal team who volunteered to actually write the document.

> It sure seems that the basic document is pretty straightforward and follows
> the format of most constitutions and bylaws of volunteer organizations that I
> am involved with.

It was intended to be as straightforward as possible within the constraints of
doing things properly from a legal perspective.

[Stan Ames]

Ron Herfurth wrote:

> I must be an idiot cause I still don't follow.

Sorry, I will try to be more helpful

> I'm a lifer in the NMRA but not the Mid-Eastern Region. Would I be a legacy
> member of the NMRA or a legacy member of the Region?

If you decide to pay no additional fees you will remain a legacy life member of the
NMRA with no changes to the benefits you receive.

> I understand that
> Regions will no longer be able to collect dues but can charge for their
> newsletter. I'll get the NMRA Bulletin/Scale rails for ever but what will it
> cost me to subscribe to the MER Local? MER membership is currently $8.00 a
> year but I haven't heard what they're planning to sell subscriptions to the
> Local for.

There are two separate issues here. For a set fee (not yet determined) you can
become become a life member with subscription and then be a life member of both the
region and division.

This membership does not include a subscription to the Region publication but does
include a minimum of a yearly communication.

The Region can then decide to offer you a yearly subscription, a life subscription,
or place their publication on the internet. That is really their choice.

> The part about a legacy member's Region dues lapsing really blows my mind;
> if the region can't collect dues how can my membership lapse?

The dues refers to National dues. SInce you are a life member you do not have
yearly dues so this section does not apply to you..

If you were a regular member you could choose to remain a legacy member as long as
you paid your yearly dies. If you left the NMRA and joined again at a later time you
could not rejoin as a legacy member.

The whole legacy category was intended for members that do not want a change. It
hopefully will be a small number that over time grows ever smaller.

> Do they mean
> if my subscription to the Local lapses I'll have to have to buy a lifetime
> subscription? If renew my subscription on time every year can I keep doing
> that forever?

The subscription to a publication will no longer be a requirement of membership.
You can purchase a subscription to whatever publication you like for as long as you
like. It has absolutely noting to do with your membership rights.

> What about NMRA lifers who bought an MER life membership for several hundred
> dollars? I Do they get screwed out of anything when someone new joins the
> NMRA as a life member and automatically becomes a life member of their
> Region for nothing extra? That's right isn't it? If Regions cannot collect
> dues then isn't a new NMRA life member automatically a life member of their
> Region (and Division?)?

You are again confusing two very different things. A current Region Life member has
and will continue to receive the Region publication for life.
A new life member is a member at al levels but being a life member does not entitle
you to receive a Region publication unless you have paid the region for those
services.

Part of the confusion here is that the majority of the dues collected by Regions
goes to pay for the production of a great publication. In the future subscribing to
a publication will no longer be a requirement of membership in the organization.
Publications will still exist, and you will still have to pay for them if you desire
to receive a paper copy in the mail.

> Can a new NMRA life member subscribe to their region newsletter annually or
> do they have to get a lifetime subscription since they are and NMRA life
> member?

That is up to the individual region. They can choose to sell life subscriptions to
whoever they wish.

> I'm in favor of the new plan I'd just like to know how much I am going to
> owe the MER and how often I own it.
>

For membership you will owe the MER nothing should you elect to pay a one time fee.
This fee will be sent back yearly to the regions.

It is up to the Regions to decide what they will charge for their subscriptions so I
can not answer this question.

Hope that helps a little.

[Jon Miller]

>Is there a phase-out of the Affiliate membership (regular membership minus
a
subscription to the NMRA Bulletin)?<

If you notice the new magazine is Scale Rails with the Bulletin inserted
in it. The plan, as explained to me, is that Scale Rails will become a
separate mag with additional subscription costs to _all_ members (at some
time in the future). The Bulletin is still the official newsletter of the
NMRA and will remain so. Currently the Affiliate membership does not
include either. Also I have been told the real cost of the Scale Rails mag
is only about 11 dollars so currently the Affiliate members are getting a
little bit of a free ride as they are only paying around 22 dollars. So the
answer to the question
[Is there a phase-out of the Affiliate membership (regular membership minus
a subscription to the NMRA Bulletin)?]
is _almost_ YES! All members will always receive the NMRA Bulletin but they
may not receive Scale Rails unless they pay for it!

[Jon Miller]

>In that case we should have a definite timeline established for bringing up
a
motion for a vote on the officer.<

What was explained to us Sunday (we had a round table meeting at a
regular meet) was that all 9 would be elected sometime in the future. The
then [would draw straws or something] so that terms would be 1, 2, and 3
years [or similar to that]. This would allow the board to then become
staggered with elections every one or two years [again I say something like
that]. We do that for our Senators and Congressmen now!

Much of the wording in there is IMHO to never get in the mess we had and
to make the organization more like similar organizations.

[Larry Blanchard]

In article <Tia3c.3723$4B1...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
ma...@mathu.com says...

> "Larry Blanchard" <lbl...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
> news:c2idc2$1tmp8d$5...@ID-124996.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> >

> > The new categories will be "member without subscription" and
> > "member with subscription".
>
>
> I believe that the new categories you mean to refer to are "Member" and
> "Member plus Subscription." See articles IV.1.A & IV.I.B.
>

OK, I got close :-).

> Both of those memberships include a subscription to the Bulletin.
>

I thought that was still undecided. At one point a "member"
could only get it electronically. The "subscription" now refers
to Scale Rails.

> Is there a phase-out of the Affiliate membership (regular membership minus a
> subscription to the NMRA Bulletin)?
>

That's the way I understood it. Which I think is great.
Affiliate status implied you were not a full member just because
you didn't like the magazine enough to pay $22 a year for it.

[Mark Mathu]

"Jon Miller" <at...@inow.com> wrote in message

news:104qjfe...@corp.supernews.com...

>>Is there a phase-out of the Affiliate membership (regular membership minus
>> a subscription to the NMRA Bulletin)?
>
> If you notice the new magazine is Scale Rails with the Bulletin
inserted
> in it.

Thanks for the clarification, Jon. I missed that -- I'm one of the people
who changed to an Affiliate member status after the last dues increase.

...so most classes of new membership will get the Bulletin, but it's no
longer the same magazine that is was a few years ago.

[Mark Mathu]

"Jon Miller" <at...@inow.com> wrote in message

news:104qjsg...@corp.supernews.com...

>> In that case we should have a definite timeline established for bringing
up
>> a motion for a vote on the officer.
>
> What was explained to us Sunday (we had a round table meeting at a
> regular meet) was that all 9 would be elected sometime in the future. The
> then [would draw straws or something] so that terms would be 1, 2, and 3
> years [or similar to that]. This would allow the board to then become
> staggered with elections every one or two years [again I say something like
> that]. We do that for our Senators and Congressmen now!

That procedue is clearly decribed in the new regulations. See article
III.21.C.

My comment is directed at article III.23 - "Should an elected officer be
suspected of misuse of office, misconduct, detrimental performance or
malfeasance in office, the officer can be removed by the following
procedures..." A) Written petition signed by a majority of the Board and
immediate suspension, B) Board meeting within sixty days of the supsension,
and C) a three-fourths supermajority on a motion to remove the officer.

I think there should be some time limit specified for bringing up and voting
on the motion to remove the officer -- such as immediately at the same board
meeting called for in B above, or within thirty days, or sixth days, etc.

[Jon Miller]

>A) Written petition signed by a majority of the Board and immediate
suspension,<

This could be done in a matter of days if a problem was found like
existed before! The rest is just clean-up and to make sure a mistake was
not made.

I think B and C are the same meeting if I read it correctly. 50% to
suspend and at the meeting (within 60 days) 75% to remove!

[Mark Mathu]

"Jon Miller" <at...@inow.com> wrote in message

news:104rv0l...@corp.supernews.com...

> I think B and C are the same meeting if I read it correctly. 50% to
> suspend and at the meeting (within 60 days) 75% to remove!

Is the vote required to be held at the same meeting?

Is there anything to prevent the Board from either 1.) making a motion to
remove the officer at some later date, or 2.) tabling a motion to remove the
officer until a later date?

If so, what becomes of the officer in the interim?

Here is the full text of that section:

ARTICLE III - OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS

23. Should an elected officer be suspected of misuse of office, misconduct,

detrimental performance or
malfeasance in office, the officer can be removed by the following

procedures:

A. A written petition against the officer signed by a majority of the Board
of Directors, must be
submitted to all members of the Board. Upon receipt by the Board and the
officers, the officer
will be immediately suspended.

B. Within sixty days thereafter, the Board shall meet to hear from the
accused and the accusers.

C. If the Board feels that the charges are sustained, a three-fourths
majority in favor of a motion
to remove the officer from office will effect the action. If not, the officer
shall be reinstated.

[Jon Miller]

>If so, what becomes of the officer in the interim?<

Whatever they want! They are running the organization and actually that
would be ok with me. I belong to another organization that works really
well with a very small board. You vote for people you hope you can trust.
In these cases it not like national politics.

[Paul K - The CB&Q Guy]

Stan Ames <s...@mitre.org> wrote in message news:<404CC0D1...@mitre.org>...
>

> Existing Life Members will have a choice.
>
> They can pay no additional fee and remain a Legacy Life Member of the NMRA with
> no change in their membership rights.
>
> or they can pay an amortized fee (yet to be determined) to become a Life
> Member of the entire NMRA (National, Region, Division).
>
> The choice is entirely the members right to choose but in neither case do you
> loose any of your current membership rights and privileges.
>

I had the thought that if I were a life member, I'd be pretty pissed
off. As stated above...

"or they can pay an amortized fee (yet to be determined) to become a

Life Member of the entire NMRA (National, Region, Division)"

My response would be, "I already paid a large fee ONCE which was
SUPPOSED to make me a LIFE member of the 'entire' NMRA"

Kinda like saying you were a life member, but, well, we voted and now
you're not, unless you pay us some more (which we will probably
mis-manage at some point in the future, too, as we have in the past,
as, after all, we're just a poor "volunteer" (aka non-professional
with no lasting or real commitment to the organization), then you can
be again unless there is another vote someday and we say your not
again.

Or am I missing something here?

Paul - "The CB&Q Guy"
Illinois, *USA*

[Jon Miller]

>My response would be, "I already paid a large fee ONCE which was
SUPPOSED to make me a LIFE member of the 'entire' NMRA"<

Actually a life membership in the NMRA did not include any of the
regions, etc. I have been a life member for years but still pay for
membership to the PCR.

>"or they can pay an amortized fee (yet to be determined) to become a
Life Member of the entire NMRA (National, Region, Division)"<

This would only be true for new members!

We have been having this discussion on the NMRA-PCR list because I
started it. This is the best answer I have heard so far. I set up a
hypothetical group of 1000 members with groups broken out as shown below.

In a message dated 3/11/04 2:58:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, at...@inow.com
writes:
What is the status of the 150 NMRA life but not PCR life members?
What is the statue of the 300 NMRA members who are not members of the PCR?
What is the status of the 150 NMRA and PCR life members?
....................................

What is the status of the 150 NMRA life but not PCR life members?

These members have a choice:
1. Choose Legacy Life and continue to be a NMRA Life member with NO region
affiliation and pay no dues.
or
2. Choose NMRA Life and affiliate with the PCR. These NMRA Life members
will
be billed by NMRA for only the region/division portion of the Single Dues.

Both of these groups will be declining-numbers groups as no one can join
these groups after implementation of Single Dues.

What is the statue of the 300 NMRA members who are not members of the PCR?

These members have a choice also:
1. Choose Legacy and continue to be a NMRA Life member with NO region
affiliation and pay ONLY the NMRA portion of the dues.
or
2. Choose a NMRA regular member class and affiliate with the PCR. These
NMRA
members will be billed by NMRA for the full single dues amount.

Group 1 will be a declining-numbers group as no one can join these groups
after implementation of Single Dues.

What is the status of the 150 NMRA and PCR life members?

This is the sticky one. The sticky part is "What if they move out of the
PCR?"

These members will be a declining-numbers group as well. For these members,
NMRA already holds the NMRA Life dues payment in a Life Account. The member
will continue to be a Life member of the PCR as the PCR holds the region
life
dues amount in a Life Account. The NMRA will have to track these members as
a
"special" class that does not pay dues as long as the member continues to
reside in the PCR. Now (presuming the member does not pay dues to any other
region
or hold a life membership in another region), if the member moves to another
region, he will begin to be billed for region dues in the new region. He
will
not have the option to become a Legacy Lifer as the time will have passed
for
him to get into that group of members. This billing should begin on the
anniversary date of his Life Membership in the NMRA (this situation has not
yet been
addressed in writing by the NMRA-implementation issue!). He will always be a
Life member of the PCR.

The rub for this class of members are those who hold multiple life
memberships in regions. The NMRA cannot unilaterally erase their life
memberships in
regions because of single dues. The NMRA is going to have to track these
members'
other region affiliations so that they can accurately determine the dues
amount to be billed depending on their current region affiliation. The whole
problem here is that the NMRA does NOT have the Life dues monies for the
region
life memberships. This little requirement should lead to the solution of a
larger
issue - multiple region affiliations.

I have been a proponent of the NMRA adding a mechanism in the RENEWAL (not
NEW membership) process to allow renewing members to designate additional
region
affiliations they desire on their renewal form. The NMRA simply needs to
keep track of the regions that the member affiliates with so that they can
include them on the regions monthly roster listings and send each of those
regions
the region portion monies that are collected with the renewal form..

Any new Life Members of the NMRA after Single Dues implementation will pay a
combined Life dues to the NMRA. The NMRA will send the region he currently
resides in the region portion annually on his Life membership anniversary
date
and he will never be billed for membership in his region of residence.

I know this seems lengthy, but it really points out just a few of the many
conflicts, scenarios, problems, etc. that the new Board of Directors and the
"Life After LRP" committee will have to work through to implement the
Regulations. I want very much to be a part of that process and am planning
to submit my
petition and resume' for the first Western District Director ballot. The
process for a single member to get on the ballot is onerous. Acquiring 25
signatures from PCR members is not a problem, but the candidate must get 25
petition
signatures from members OUTSIDE of his home region also. All of this must be
done
by June 15th of this year for the election to be held next year per the
proposed Regulations. Any volunteers to be my campaign manager's in any of
the
Regions/States west of the Mississippi River will be appreciated. I will
need
help getting signatures and recognition as a viable candidate. How about a
campaign slogan: "NO MORE UNCONTESTED ELECTIONS IN THE NMRA".

The above is my interpretation of the proposed Regulations and what will
have
to happen after they pass. VOTE whatever your heart feels, but VOTE.

OK, now tell me where you think I missed the mark.

Bob Ferguson
PCR Member Services
Coast Division Paymaster
Former PCR President and Trustee

[Howard R Garner]

A very well thought out analysis of the Life Member situation.
Thanks for all the research into this.

If I resided in the western area, I would take you up on the campain
offer. I reside in the eastern area and have life membership in the
SER, MER and PNR.

Howard Garner

[Jon Miller]

Remember Howard it was;

Bob Ferguson
> PCR Member Services
> Coast Division Paymaster
> Former PCR President and Trustee

NOT me who wrote the analysis.

[Matt Furze]

Your claim that a Life Member of the NMRA and Life Member of one region,
upon moving to another region, will be automatically billed for the second
region's dues contains a major fallacy. Since the "dues" concept at the
region (and division) level will no longer exist under the LRP, the only
thing the National could start billing for would be the additional
fees/charges the second region *requests* (for its publications, etc.), and
then, only if the incoming member chooses to receive those extras.

As a Life Member of the NMRA and Life Member of the PSR, I will remain a
Life Member of both regardless of where I live. Under the LRP, National is
going to pay the PSR $3 (or whatever the determined figure turns out to be)
for every year I continue to live within the region. If I move to another
region, the new region will get the annual stipend that the PSR got from
National. The new region should send me a once-a-year mailing of some sorts
to at least acknowledge my presence (that's part of what the money from
National is for, after all), but unless I pay whatever additional
fees/charges the region *asks*, they are obligated to send me nothing else.
However, by moving to the new region, I will automatically become a member
of that region in the eyes of the NMRA (and by definition under the LRP, in
the eyes of the region). The PSR, on the other hand, since I paid for a
life membership to that region, will continue to be obligated to send me
their publications at no additional charge, even though they will no longer
be receiving the annual stipend they got from National while I was living
there.

The key is that under the LRP, the only "dues" levied will be the dues to
belong to the (entire) NMRA. Anything the regions may choose to charge in
addition is whatever they may need (in addition to the annual stipend they
get from National) to help pay for the services they provide (such as
printed newsletters, awards, etc. - items that are of and from the region,
not National). And region members are under no obligation to pay those
charges unless they choose to.

Matt Furze
NMRA Life # 4871
PSR Life # 410

"Jon Miller" <at...@inow.com> wrote in message

news:10549vn...@corp.supernews.com...

===snip ===

[Marty Hall]

"Jon Miller" <at...@inow.com> wrote in message news:<10549vn...@corp.supernews.com>...

After reading all these posts I am legally confused. But as a non
member who was thinking about joining I have only two things to say.
First, the NMRA used to be affiliated with J A Bash Company for
insurance on trains and layouts which I believe also covered you at
shows, in transport etc. Are they still affiliated. Secondly, what
is the cost to be a member and is it worth it. Thanks Marty Hall

[Z_Scale SIG Coordinator]

Hi Marty,

The NMRA and J.A. Bash are still working together. The insurance
offers a $15,000 non-scheduled layout coverage (which is nice for most
home and modular layouts), and scheduled insurance for pricey items as
well as base coverage for
tools, books etc. The cost works out to about $140 US including a $10
fee paid to the NMRA. The cost of becoming eligible for the insurance
is an associate membership with the NMRA which costs $23. You can
join on their website.

My homeowners insurance wouldn't cover my show layout which they
considered to be a collection and thus subject to a low insurance
limit. I finally managed to convince them, in writing, what a layout
was and they accepted to cover it for the true market value (two
independant appraisals were required). Independant appraisals are not
easy to arrange for home layouts so you might seriously consider J.A.
Bash or Chubb who also offers a comprehensive collecion insurance.

Cheers,
Jeffrey MacHan
Chief Imagineer - Val Ease Central RR
http://www.Val-Ease-Central.com

(Marty Hall) wrote in message >