About Fights and Weight Rooms
KL
The old phrase about fights being won and lost in the weight room seems to
be flying around so I thought I'd post my expeirence on this subject here.
!) Ive seen some very intemidating men who could move a lot of weight around
but spent 0 time on cardio/conditioning. These guys arms will get so tired
doing a hold such as a headlock that if you get loose they won't have
anything left, nothing, there too dead to even launch a blow. I've had this
happen when a big guy side headlocked me, he didnt have the technique right
and I could still get air, we stayed in this position for several minutes
with him lifting up on my head and arm the entire time. I couldnt bridge
and roll him but I did get his back off my chest and was able to break the
hold. When he returned to his feet his arms were so dead he couldnt do
anything with them AT ALL. His arms were completely dead, so dead that I
could tell it strained him to even move them. He didn't want to play anymore
after that, he wouldnt advance on me at all, and when he realized I was
going to finish him he just quit altogether.
JJueguen
maintaining grips and holds can be on your arms and hands, it really burns
after a while, especially if you're holding onto a big thick gi.
Machoduck
We love when the Hooge Doods would come in. They used all their strength in
the first few minutes of sparring.. made easy pickens after that... Then we
hand them over to some of the experienced girls and they humbled them for the
rest of the class. Funny that they never returned after the free class. Go
figure.
---------------------------------------------
-MM
I didn't claw my way to the top of the
food chain, just so i could eat veggies Dammit!
John Carlo
with being a good grappler l will twist your head off if i grab you
around your neck or head fact is i broke a guys nose when i put him in a
headlock in class-i squeesed him so hard i busted his nose, another time
i picked a guy right off the matt and slammed him on his head and
knocked him out------ dont sleep on a strong guy if he knows basic
grappling you might find he will change the rules just enough to smash
you ----- once i picked a guy up off the matt and ran him into a corner
of a wall in the dojo ------ street wrestling is alittle different then
dojo wreastling
Gichoke
>From: ama...@webtv.net (John Carlo)
>Date: 9/25/00 9:45 AM EST
>Message-id: <9546-39C...@storefull-156.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
I have also found stength to be very important, occaisonally a very skilled guy
can deal with givining away lots of power , but those guys are rare,I think
everybody knows strength is crucialm, they just like to pretend it isn't.
Helio Gracie thinks strength aint that bag a deal, but thats cause back in the
40's there were no steriods,few people lifted, and the few that did lift
generally lifted wrong.
And one of the few guys that was very strong back then was Kimura,and he broke
Helio's arm.
Gi
Eric Iverson
You might be bigger than most, but you aren't bigger and
stronger than *everybody*. What happens when the other guy
is bigger than you? Then you'd better have good technique.
As for changing the rules, two can play that game.
As for the street, assume the other guy is armed.
--Eric
John Carlo
guy is going to run out of gas and get beat by girls--------- listen up
eric in the street my friend you will be spitting out chicklets before
the fight even begins, thats my technique you open your piehole to me
iam going to put your light out before any of your tecnhique even comes
to play--- you can take that to the bank---- and also in the street i am
armed with two guns 19 inch fucking cannons that will explode on the
side of your head before you even have a chance to get out a weapon
klumsyboy
is that you have better leverage when doing chokes (when you get the
bigger guy down to the ground)
In article <20000923171815...@ng-cr1.aol.com>,
jjue...@aol.com (JJueguen) wrote:
> I had the same thing when i started Jiu-Jitsu. Its amazing just how
hard
> maintaining grips and holds can be on your arms and hands, it really
burns
> after a while, especially if you're holding onto a big thick gi.
>
--
Email me at klum...@hotmail.com http://slutsat.cjb.net
http://klumsyboy.cjb.net http://w.diz.nu
http://cumto.cjb.net http://skateto.cjb.net http://nudemp3.cjb.net
If youre half as smart as me, then Im twice as smart as you.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Tim Greer - Linkworm Software
All hail the great, almighty Johnny. Nice hair cut.... *LOL*
--
Regards,
Tim Greer: te...@linkworm.com | LinkWorm Software http://www.linkworm.com
Tel: 530 247-1749. Programming, CGI, Perl, C/C++, ASP, SQL, PHP & Design
Web Server & Network Administration, Security, Consulting, Installations
Configuration. Unix/Linux/FreeBSD & NT. Apache, IIS, TCP/IP, LAN/WAN/WWW
John Carlo
TravIsGod
>guy is going to run out of gas and get beat by girls--------- listen up
>eric in the street my friend you will be spitting out chicklets before
>the fight even begins, thats my technique you open your piehole to me
>iam going to put your light out before any of your tecnhique even comes
>to play--- you can take that to the bank---- and also in the street i am
>armed with two guns 19 inch fucking cannons that will explode on the
>side of your head before you even have a chance to get out a weapon
>
>
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Carlo, u da man...between you and chokey, always a riot.
Trav
TravIsGod
>is that you have better leverage when doing chokes (when you get the
>bigger guy down to the ground)
huh??
Trav
Eric Iverson
My main street defense is to keep calm and talk my way out of a fight.
It's worked more than once. Like I said, you are a big strong guy
but there are bigger and stronger guys out there, and I'm not one of them.
--Eric
Paul
Carlo) wrote:
>Eric i didnt say technique wasnt important-i said dont think every big
>guy is going to run out of gas and get beat by girls--------- listen up
>eric in the street my friend you will be spitting out chicklets before
>the fight even begins, thats my technique you open your piehole to me
>iam going to put your light out before any of your tecnhique even comes
>to play--- you can take that to the bank---- and also in the street i am
>armed with two guns 19 inch fucking cannons that will explode on the
>side of your head before you even have a chance to get out a weapon
How can anybody not love Carlo... I'd love to feed this guy a fifth
and shoot the shit... watta riot
John Carlo
you dont know me like the rest of the boys on RSB - I can talk shit , i
love to talk shit -where is my main man timmy and this new pile of shit
dan dan the minute man
Tim Greer - Linkworm Software
>
> Tim what is with the hair cut shit??? lets see a pic of you
I was talking about the pictures on your "doghouse" page... *l* I'll
have to scan a picture of myself sometime...
Tim Greer - Linkworm Software
>
> >Paul p...@mail.utexas.edu
> >Date: 9/26/00 5:43 PM EST
> >Message-id: <1g92ts08ff6rni85b...@4ax.com>
> Tim thinks I hate him, but as proof that I don't, I honestly hope Tim doesn't
> fight Carlo.
>
> Gi
Gi, I never tried to fight Carlo and he never tried to fight me. he
offered a truce (a cyber-truce) via email to me today, so everything's
cool and you don't have to worry. I don't think you "hate" me, but you
seem to make an effort to make it appear that way sometimes. No big deal
either way... I mean, damn, I dislike Travis and Kirk a lot more than I
do you. *LOL* You've been acting a lot cooler the last week or so... Can
we be "pals" now, Bill? *LOL*
Gichoke
Eric Iverson
> > I had the same thing when i started Jiu-Jitsu. Its amazing just how hard
> > maintaining grips and holds can be on your arms and hands, it really burns
> > after a while, especially if you're holding onto a big thick gi.
>
> the first few minutes of sparring.. made easy pickens after that... Then we
> hand them over to some of the experienced girls and they humbled them for the
> rest of the class. Funny that they never returned after the free class. Go
> figure.
There's a few interesting principles in play here. One is get in condition
to keep going and going. Another is to let the other guy get tired and
he becomes easy pickens.
While grappling last night I was at a weight disadvantage with each of three
partners I had. They were all probably stronger too, though the skill levels
fluctuated. I found I was always doing one of two things; either looking
for
a hold and fighting against their energy, or relaxing more and slipping
out
of their holds and not being concerned with winning. If I had done more
of
the latter I would have retained more of my own energy and been ready to
go
when the other guys got winded. Being initially more defense-minded
seems
like a good approach and it's something that for some reason I've done
more
with sparring than grappling. Barring a sudden boost in my skill or physical
strength, I think I'll try defense more often.
--Eric
Gichoke
>From: Tim Greer - Lin
>Gi, I never tried to fight Carlo and he never tried to fight me. he
>offered a truce (a cyber-truce) via email to me today, so everything's
>cool and you don't have to worry. I don't think you "hate" me, but you
>seem to make an effort to make it appear that way sometimes. No big deal
>either way... I mean, damn, I dislike Travis and Kirk a lot more than I
>do you. *LOL* You've been acting a lot cooler the last week or so... Can
>we be "pals" now, Bill? *LOL*
Only if you send me 50 dollars.
Gi(it worked in grammar school)
John Carlo
,knife it dont matter because i hit first and fats and you dont want to
see how fast and hard i hit---- do you think only the weak punks like
you will use a gun ?????? woman and children NEED to use a gun and so do
you your in good company sweetie
Mike McKenzie
<art...@kbnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> >because i curl 225 for reps and if your not a strong strong guy along
>> >with being a good grappler l will twist your head off if i grab you
>> >around your neck or head fact is i broke a guys nose when i put him in a
>> >headlock in class-i squeesed him so hard i busted his nose, another time
>
>How much poundage is equal to a gun, a knife, a baseball bat, a bottle in
>the face, a surprise attack... etc?
>
>Dirk
>
It all depends whether or not you drop the weight on your foot.
Mike
Tim Greer - Linkworm Software
Do you still take food stamps?
Dirk Bruere
Chas
> How much poundage is equal to a gun, a knife, a baseball bat, a bottle in
> the face, a surprise attack... etc?
I always think it's funny that it's the big strong guys that despise
weapons or 'tricks' and want to fight 'man to man'. They don't mind
taking advantage of their Godgift, they don't mind being the guys that
have a good chance of winning every engagement- they hate it when a guy
who shouldn't win against them- does.
Why should anyone take a whipping from an asshole just because he's big
and strong? You don't drive a dray horse by patting him on the ass. Why
should a weaker man, a woman, an old person, a cripple have to take shit
off of someone who has never known that adversity and have him feel
justified because he's worked gifts that he had no part in gaining?
Nah, screw'em- hit'em with a brick.
Chas
http://members.xoom.com/kilap/Keepsafe.htm
http://www.kuntaosilat.com/videos.html
http://www.angelfire.com/co3/jail4judges/index.htm
Frank Benn
Large people use guns, knives, bats, and surprise attacks too.
And they have the poundage to boot.
People watch too many "Kung Fu" reruns, and lose sight of what's what. They
forget the law of the jungle, they forget who is at the top of the food chain,
and they forget why this is so.
But as soon as they face the lion, they learn.
David L. Burkhead
--
David L. Burkhead "Dum Vivimus, vivamus"
mailto:dbur...@home.com "While we live, let us live!"
Science Fiction -- Judo -- Space -- Science -- Cars
http://www.sff.net/people/dburkhead
"John Carlo" <ama...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:13889-39...@storefull-157.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
wr...@my-deja.com
ama...@webtv.net (John Carlo) wrote:
> because i curl 225 for reps and if your not a strong strong guy along
> with being a good grappler l will twist your head off if i grab you
> around your neck or head fact is i broke a guys nose when i put him in
a
> headlock in class-i squeesed him so hard i busted his nose, another
time
> knocked him out------ dont sleep on a strong guy if he knows basic
> grappling you might find he will change the rules just enough to smash
> you ----- once i picked a guy up off the matt and ran him into a
corner
> of a wall in the dojo ------ street wrestling is alittle different
then
> dojo wreastling
>
You curl 225? Like in biceps curl? I've never seen anyone do it.
Dirk Bruere
"Chas" <gryp...@home.com> wrote in message
news:39D2B0F0...@home.com...
> Dirk Bruere wrote:
> > How much poundage is equal to a gun, a knife, a baseball bat, a bottle
in
> > the face, a surprise attack... etc?
>
> I always think it's funny that it's the big strong guys that despise
> weapons or 'tricks' and want to fight 'man to man'. They don't mind
> taking advantage of their Godgift, they don't mind being the guys that
> have a good chance of winning every engagement- they hate it when a guy
> who shouldn't win against them- does.
> Why should anyone take a whipping from an asshole just because he's big
> and strong? You don't drive a dray horse by patting him on the ass. Why
> should a weaker man, a woman, an old person, a cripple have to take shit
> off of someone who has never known that adversity and have him feel
> justified because he's worked gifts that he had no part in gaining?
> Nah, screw'em- hit'em with a brick.
That's the whole point in the wider scheme of the 'martial' in martial arts.
It is supposed to be something of an equaliser.
However, many people forget strategy and concentrate on tactics.
Dirk
Dirk Bruere
"Frank Benn" <spa...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com> wrote in message
news:39D2DC97...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com...
> > > >because i curl 225 for reps and if your not a strong strong guy along
> > > >with being a good grappler l will twist your head off if i grab you
> > > >around your neck or head fact is i broke a guys nose when i put him
in a
> > > >headlock in class-i squeesed him so hard i busted his nose, another
time
> > How much poundage is equal to a gun, a knife, a baseball bat, a bottle
in
> > the face, a surprise attack... etc?
>
> Large people use guns, knives, bats, and surprise attacks too.
> And they have the poundage to boot.
> People watch too many "Kung Fu" reruns, and lose sight of what's what.
They
> forget the law of the jungle, they forget who is at the top of the food
chain,
> and they forget why this is so.
Still, they remember why the police exist, and building new prisons is a
growth industry.
Dirk
Badger
Chas <gryp...@home.com> wrote:
> Dirk Bruere wrote:
> > How much poundage is equal to a gun, a knife, a baseball bat, a
bottle in
> > the face, a surprise attack... etc?
>
> I always think it's funny that it's the big strong guys that despise
> weapons or 'tricks' and want to fight 'man to man'. They don't mind
> taking advantage of their Godgift, they don't mind being the guys that
> have a good chance of winning every engagement- they hate it when a
guy
> who shouldn't win against them- does.
> Why should anyone take a whipping from an asshole just because he's
big
> and strong? You don't drive a dray horse by patting him on the ass.
Why
> should a weaker man, a woman, an old person, a cripple have to take
shit
> off of someone who has never known that adversity and have him feel
> justified because he's worked gifts that he had no part in gaining?
> Nah, screw'em- hit'em with a brick.
Geez, Chas, why is it that every time I read something from you, I like
you better?
Badger
--
Shaolin Five Animals Kung Fu
& Filipino Martial Arts
http://www.cyberus.ca/~badger/
Chas
> But as soon as they face the lion, they learn.
Notice, we're running out of lions.
Being small and fighting back is not a matter of 'bravery', it's a
matter of *necessity*.
I knew a guy, Jimmy Gonzales- big man, lots of muscles, boxed, played
hard football- all of that. So when he messed with this little guy, the
little guy got two of his cousins and they carved him up like a turkey.
The idea is to never meet a man like that 'head-on'- if I had to fight
Hulk Hogan, I would have to fight him whether I'm bigger or smaller,
stronger or weaker, well-trained or not.
Why should I take any shit from him just because I can't stand up to him
on his own ground, subject to his parameters of fighting?
Screw'em- hit'im with a brick.
Chas
Vote Green!
Nader for President
It's a matter of integrity
Don Wagner
> Chas <gryp...@home.com> wrote:
>> Nah, screw'em- hit'em with a brick.
>Geez, Chas, why is it that every time I read something from you, I like
>you better?
Ahhh, he's just preaching to the chior.
;-)
I ran and interesting little session for some of my students after
class this past Tuesday. Had one of them put on one of my old
motorcycle helmets and then the others would practice flicking a lit
cigarette at the victim. The idea was to hit the faceplate and get in
on the person before they had a chance to respond correctly.
Controlling that flinch reflex even with the faceplate down is a
bitch.
Next week I'll see if I can get my hands on a case of cheap beer mugs.
;-)
--Don--
Let me show you how the guards used to do it...
TravIsGod
>forget the law of the jungle, they forget who is at the top of the food
>chain,
>and they forget why this is so.
>
>But as soon as they face the lion, they learn.
>
Yeah, the rifle works well.
Trav
Pierre Honeyman
>Nah, screw'em- hit'em with a brick.
>
I love your posts Chas, never change.
Pierre
Badger
dawa...@ix.netcom.com (Don Wagner) wrote:
> Badger <badger...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > Chas <gryp...@home.com> wrote:
>
like
> >you better?
>
> Ahhh, he's just preaching to the chior.
> ;-)
>
> I ran and interesting little session for some of my students after
> class this past Tuesday. Had one of them put on one of my old
> motorcycle helmets and then the others would practice flicking a lit
> cigarette at the victim. The idea was to hit the faceplate and get in
> on the person before they had a chance to respond correctly.
>
> Controlling that flinch reflex even with the faceplate down is a
> bitch.
>
> Next week I'll see if I can get my hands on a case of cheap beer mugs.
From the Preaching to the Choir files:
All of Pete's students (when they were all a bunch of pre-cancerous
smokers) used to practice keeping a hand on the other guy's hand when
either offering or accepting a light. Otherwise, it is kinda difficult
to block this burning object four inches from your eye.
Badger
--
Shaolin Five Animals Kung Fu
& Filipino Martial Arts
http://www.cyberus.ca/~badger/
http://www.martialartsgala2000.com
Toddc
dawa...@ix.netcom.com (Don Wagner) wrote:
> Badger <badger...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> I ran and interesting little session for some of my students after
> class this past Tuesday. Had one of them put on one of my old
> motorcycle helmets and then the others would practice flicking a lit
> cigarette at the victim. The idea was to hit the faceplate and get in
> on the person before they had a chance to respond correctly.
> Controlling that flinch reflex even with the faceplate down is a
> bitch.
> Next week I'll see if I can get my hands on a case of cheap beer mugs.
> --Don--
> Let me show you how the guards used to do it...
My dad showed me THAT one when I was thirteen. Caught me smoking stolen
Swisher Sweets Cigars (YuK!). Then he made me smoke 2 entire packs- one by
one - and flick the filter tips into a coffee can on a shelf in the garage.
Which I soon after puked into. Two lessons in one.
I DON'T smoke now - but I always carry a pack and a lighter.
--
Todd K Christensen
Frank Benn
> Frank Benn wrote:
> > But as soon as they face the lion, they learn.
>
> Notice, we're running out of lions.
> Being small and fighting back is not a matter of 'bravery', it's a
> matter of *necessity*.
I agree. But at the same time, more is *always* going to be more. Bigger
is bigger.
I've seen a lot of people forget this, and then relearn it. Big and nasty
beats small and nasty.
Dirk Bruere
"Don Wagner" <dawa...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:39d3619f....@news.erols.com...
> I ran and interesting little session for some of my students after
> class this past Tuesday. Had one of them put on one of my old
> motorcycle helmets and then the others would practice flicking a lit
> cigarette at the victim. The idea was to hit the faceplate and get in
> on the person before they had a chance to respond correctly.
> Controlling that flinch reflex even with the faceplate down is a
> bitch.
Forget the helmet and faceplate.
Just spit and then punch.
Dirk
Don Wagner
>All of Pete's students (when they were all a bunch of pre-cancerous
>smokers) used to practice keeping a hand on the other guy's hand when
>either offering or accepting a light. Otherwise, it is kinda difficult
>to block this burning object four inches from your eye.
Thats a good point! I'll have to bring that up this Friday night.
;-)
See what sort of practical lessons we learn on RMA?
....oh, I'm sorry! I didn't end my post properly!
...buttwipe.
Badger
> ....oh, I'm sorry! I didn't end my post properly!
> ...buttwipe.
NoooOOOooo... that was Kevin saying there had to be some sort of anal
reference in your message.
...fartcatcher.
Badger
--
Shaolin Five Animals Kung Fu
& Filipino Martial Arts
http://www.cyberus.ca/~badger/
http://www.martialartsgala2000.com
Dirk Bruere
"Frank Benn" <spa...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com> wrote in message
> Chas wrote:
>
> > Frank Benn wrote:
> >
> > Being small and fighting back is not a matter of 'bravery', it's a
> > matter of *necessity*.
> I agree. But at the same time, more is *always* going to be more. Bigger
> is bigger.
> I've seen a lot of people forget this, and then relearn it. Big and nasty
> beats small and nasty.
'All other things being equal'.
But we try not to include that condition, don't we?
Dirk
Frank Benn
> "Frank Benn" <spa...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:39D37E31...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com...
> > Chas wrote:
> >
> > > Frank Benn wrote:
> > > > But as soon as they face the lion, they learn.
> > >
> > > Notice, we're running out of lions.
> > > Being small and fighting back is not a matter of 'bravery', it's a
> > > matter of *necessity*.
>
> > I agree. But at the same time, more is *always* going to be more. Bigger
> > is bigger.
>
> > I've seen a lot of people forget this, and then relearn it. Big and nasty
> > beats small and nasty.
>
> 'All other things being equal'.
> But we try not to include that condition, don't we?
>
> Dirk
Actually, the condition that need not be included is the idea that big people
are somehow dumb, "fair fighters", and easy to sneak up on.
This is the condition that can be excluded, if we want to be realistic.
JimS
spa...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com says...
>
>Chas wrote:
>
>> Frank Benn wrote:
>>
>> Being small and fighting back is not a matter of 'bravery', it's a
>> matter of *necessity*.
>
>I agree. But at the same time, more is *always* going to be more. Bigger
>is bigger.
>
>I've seen a lot of people forget this, and then relearn it. Big and nasty
>beats small and nasty.
Sure. But I think you and Chas. are talking about a couple different situations.
Chas. is talking real life, where how big and strong you are is fairly immaterial
when the little guys call in their friends and pack some heat.
In the gym? No question. Give me the big tough guy over the squirt tough guy any
day.
JS
Don Wagner
>Forget the helmet and faceplate.
>Just spit and then punch.
Spit is just water unless you're a cobra.
;-)
Now fire...that needs to be shown some respect.
kino...@my-deja.com
Frank Benn <spa...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com> wrote:
> Dirk Bruere wrote:
>
> > "Frank Benn" <spa...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com> wrote in
message
> > news:39D37E31...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com...
> > >
> > > > Frank Benn wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Being small and fighting back is not a matter of 'bravery', it's
a
> > > > matter of *necessity*.
> >
> > > I agree. But at the same time, more is *always* going to be more.
Bigger
> > > is bigger.
> >
> > > I've seen a lot of people forget this, and then relearn it. Big
and nasty
> > > beats small and nasty.
> >
> > But we try not to include that condition, don't we?
> >
> > Dirk
>
> Actually, the condition that need not be included is the idea that big
people
> are somehow dumb, "fair fighters", and easy to sneak up on.
>
> This is the condition that can be excluded, if we want to be
realistic.
>
lose the other day).
Ron Tisdale
Chas
> I agree. But at the same time, more is *always* going to be more. Bigger
> is bigger.
> I've seen a lot of people forget this, and then relearn it. Big and nasty
> beats small and nasty.
See, I've never known anyone to forget it.
I've never known anyone who didn't understand that big and strong is a
positive attribute in fighting. I've always heard them talk about-
'Well, I'm never going to be big, and I'm never going to be strong
enough to match the really strong guys; and, damn, Chas, I need to be
able to fight anyway.'
And I tell them; 'Well, podna, just do the best you can, cause you were
penciled in for taking an asswhipping whether you fight back or not.'
I think that *timing* is the cardinal skill in martial endeavor. A
fighter who understands the nuances of timing can prevail over someone
who does not.
Chas
> Actually, the condition that need not be included is the idea that big people
> are somehow dumb, "fair fighters", and easy to sneak up on.
Actually, they're not 'dumb', but they're very often arrogant- paying
attention to something else rather than the business at hand. They're
not 'fair fighters'- look at John Carlo- he would rather fight a man
smaller and weaker than himself than go out amongst his peers. As far as
'easy to sneak up on'- most people are easy to sneak up on- it's a
matter of timing and distancing, not speed, strength or size.
Dirk Bruere
> "Dirk Bruere" <art...@kbnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >Forget the helmet and faceplate.
> >Just spit and then punch.
>
> Spit is just water unless you're a cobra.
Try spitting in the eye of someone not trained to resist flinching.
> Now fire...that needs to be shown some respect.
Ah... the old Polish Spirit and a light trick...
Dirk
Dirk Bruere
"Frank Benn" <spa...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > But as soon as they face the lion, they learn.
> > > >
> > > > matter of *necessity*.
> >
> > > I agree. But at the same time, more is *always* going to be more.
Bigger
> > > is bigger.
> >
> > > I've seen a lot of people forget this, and then relearn it. Big and
nasty
> > > beats small and nasty.
> >
> > But we try not to include that condition, don't we?
>
people
> are somehow dumb, "fair fighters", and easy to sneak up on.
>
To be fair, whoever starts a fight is the most likely to win, unless they
are drunk or stupid.
They pick the ground, the attack, the timing, the weapons, friends for
backup...
Dirk
Dirk Bruere
> Frank Benn wrote:
> > I agree. But at the same time, more is *always* going to be more.
Bigger
> > is bigger.
> > I've seen a lot of people forget this, and then relearn it. Big and
nasty
> > beats small and nasty.
> See, I've never known anyone to forget it.
> I've never known anyone who didn't understand that big and strong is a
> positive attribute in fighting. I've always heard them talk about-
Depends what kind of fighting.
If it's against police, they'll take you down far harder if you're big and
strong.
If it's military, well, if I get a choice I'll shoot the biggest first one
the grounds that they are a bigger target and it might just get to be hand
to hand.
Big and strong also tends to be a bit slower when the time comes to run far
and fast.
If you look at the build of most Special Forces you'll find they are not
Arnold Schwarzeneggers. They tend to be fairly stocky. Short and strong?
Dirk
BarnesKenpo
>I always think it's funny that it's the big strong guys that despise
>weapons or 'tricks' and want to fight 'man to man'. They don't mind
>taking advantage of their Godgift, they don't mind being the guys that
>have a good chance of winning every engagement- they hate it when a guy
>who shouldn't win against them- does.
>Why should anyone take a whipping from an asshole just because he's big
>and strong? You don't drive a dray horse by patting him on the ass. Why
>should a weaker man, a woman, an old person, a cripple have to take shit
>off of someone who has never known that adversity and have him feel
>justified because he's worked gifts that he had no part in gaining?
>Nah, screw'em- hit'em with a brick.
Great post and an excellent point.
Regards,
Gary R. Barnes
Russ Rader
> Dirk Bruere wrote:
> > "Frank Benn" wrote:
> > > I agree. But at the same time, more is *always* going to be more. Bigger
> > > is bigger.
> >
> > > I've seen a lot of people forget this, and then relearn it. Big and nasty
> > > beats small and nasty.
Unless the small guy is really nasty first, and doesn't leave the big
guy a chance to be nasty second. IOW, use Chas' philosophy and "hit'im
with a brick" before the big guy knows the fight has started.
Otherwise, of course, you're right; big and nasty wins. And big guys
can use the preemptive strike strategy, too, of course.
Russ
Frank Benn
> Frank Benn wrote:
> > Dirk Bruere wrote:
> > > "Frank Benn" wrote:
> > > > I agree. But at the same time, more is *always* going to be more. Bigger
> > > > is bigger.
> > >
> > > > I've seen a lot of people forget this, and then relearn it. Big and nasty
> > > > beats small and nasty.
>
> Unless the small guy is really nasty first, and doesn't leave the big
> guy a chance to be nasty second. IOW, use Chas' philosophy and "hit'im
> with a brick" before the big guy knows the fight has started.
This looks fine on paper, but the real fight often starts with two people standing
there. Where's your brick? Where's your chance to catch him when he isn't
looking? I'll tell you where. Nowhere. Face to face, the man who has the tools is
the man who walks away. We can talk about retaliating later "when he's not
looking", about gaining "little guy" advantages, sneaking up on the big man,
whatever, but it doesn't amount to anything when king kong has you in front of him
and he's looking you down.
And when kong puts the smack down, the little guy feels it just like anyone else.
Arguably moreso.
Frank Benn
> In article <39D37E31...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com>,
> spa...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com says...
> >
> >Chas wrote:
> >
> >> Frank Benn wrote:
> >> > But as soon as they face the lion, they learn.
> >>
> >> Notice, we're running out of lions.
> >> Being small and fighting back is not a matter of 'bravery', it's a
> >> matter of *necessity*.
> >
> >I agree. But at the same time, more is *always* going to be more. Bigger
> >is bigger.
> >
> >I've seen a lot of people forget this, and then relearn it. Big and nasty
> >beats small and nasty.
>
> Sure. But I think you and Chas. are talking about a couple different situations.
> Chas. is talking real life, where how big and strong you are is fairly immaterial
> when the little guys call in their friends and pack some heat.
So you are saying that "big and nasty" doesn't carry any weight in the "real world"?
I would strongly disagree.
My statements *are* about the real world -- not the gym. Guns and bricks are not
lying around in arms' reach everywhere you go.
Frank Benn
> Frank Benn wrote:
> > I agree. But at the same time, more is *always* going to be more. Bigger
> > is bigger.
> > I've seen a lot of people forget this, and then relearn it. Big and nasty
> > beats small and nasty.
>
> See, I've never known anyone to forget it.
<g>
I have.
Chas
> And when kong puts the smack down, the little guy feels it just like anyone else.
> Arguably moreso.
As someone said; 'Needs we no Lady, asward in hand, y'rising oot the
Loch, to apprise us of that fair circumstance, dear Frank.'
Most of us go through life knowing that we'll never be big, strong,
adept in the pugitive art and that something must take that place.
It does no good to tell someone to grow bigger. It does no good to tell
someone to grow stronger. It only does good to tell them how to make the
best of what they've been giftied.
Many years ago I took a whipping from a little guy (Roger Matthews-
thanks Rog)- we were face to face in a bicycle parking lot. He kept
feeding me bicycles to fall over and when I'd put my attention on them,
he'd thump me and throw another bicycle.
He beat me when he shouldn't have been able to. It's been 40 years and
I've not forgotten it one whit.
Steve Gombosi
>As someone said; 'Needs we no Lady, asward in hand, y'rising oot the
>Loch, to apprise us of that fair circumstance, dear Frank.'
Although I've never been one to disparage bizarre aquatic rituals
with the appropriate watery tart.
Steve
John Carlo
piece of trash there is fighting to me means hit the motherfucker while
he is talking, hands are down , takes his eye off me ,while he is
walking away ---- it dont matter because when its over the results are
the same a big W for big daddy---- when i was growing up alot of people
knew me as a boxer and they get these stupid notions in their head iam
going to put my hands up to fight and never fight dirty etc,etc
suprise suprise when the front leg front kick smacks them in the bladder
and i stop dropping bombs but you know i just remembered i never had to
do that because i always sucker punched every one, and when i say
everyone iam talking over fifty guys
John Carlo
as a fucking grissly bear only uglier
John Carlo
funny its usually the smaller and weaker who run their mouths and get in
trouble the big boys know not to fuck with me because iam not going to
miss their big ugly heads but the little guys they get themselves into
trouble for example if iam out a guy like yourself will run that martial
art wins all and thinks they have a strategy to beat a boxer and assume
me being a boxer their strategy will work against me they start yapping
and yapping and next thing you know i blind side the dumb motherfucker
a big mistake people make is to get me pissed and assume iam not going
to do anything or iam going to ask them outside you get me mad enough to
hit iam knocking out fronts ----little guys want to prove big guys are
not that tough weight lifters are not that strong boxers cant street
fight and when the little shitheads get some drinks in them they can not
be beat
ime on the other hands know i can be beat and know all my strengths and
weaknesses - my one strength his if i hit anybody they will be hurt it
dont matter who most will be fucked up i dont care if it tyson if i
blind side him he will be wobbling and iam not going to stop throwing
untill its over-so to me fighting isnt fioghting it is me hitting
John
Carlo) wrote:
>i always sucker punched every one, and when i say
>everyone iam talking over fifty guys
sucker puncher = PUSSY
John
Chas
> your right chas i rather fight the smaller and weakerbut you know whats
> funny its usually the smaller and weaker who run their mouths
Sure. I see a situation right now where guys are afraid of a particular
practitioner and are telling all sorts of stories to make themselves
appear better. It's a common thing- I'm surprised you're not more
comfortable with it.
> and get in
> trouble the big boys know not to fuck with me because iam not going to
> miss their big ugly heads
Fighters know how bad bad gets. Predators know not to fuck with one
another. Everybody knows that at the least they're going to have an
injury to get over- fucking up dweebs is no measure.
> but the little guys they get themselves into
> trouble for example if iam out a guy like yourself will run that martial
> art wins all and thinks they have a strategy to beat a boxer and assume
> me being a boxer their strategy will work against me they start yapping
> and yapping and next thing you know i blind side the dumb motherfucker
'Dumb motherfucker' being the only operative words. Anybody that would
rev you up and not expect to get attacked is being silly.
> a big mistake people make is to get me pissed and assume iam not going
> to do anything or iam going to ask them outside you get me mad enough to
> hit iam knocking out fronts
Yeah- people are always surprised when you go sudden on them.
>----little guys want to prove big guys are
> not that tough weight lifters are not that strong boxers cant street
> fight and when the little shitheads get some drinks in them they can not
> be beat
Yup- always going to someone who wants to check your oil.
> ime on the other hands know i can be beat and know all my strengths and
> weaknesses - my one strength his if i hit anybody they will be hurt it
> dont matter who most will be fucked up i dont care if it tyson if i
> blind side him he will be wobbling and iam not going to stop throwing
> untill its over-so to me fighting isnt fioghting it is me hitting
Sure- you're the guy we all have in mind during our training.
--
Chas
> chas, why you always acting like your small- i seen your pic your as big
> as a fucking grissly bear only uglier
I'm shrinking as I get older, but I used to be about 5'11-6' and go
about 230. I've always had a little poogie around my waist- probably
would have done better about 10 lbs. lighter.
I fought a lot of guys that were up to about 5" taller and maybe 30 lbs.
heavier. Little guys could pick on me and feel like they got a big guy;
big guys could pick on me and feel like they weren't going too small.
It's a living-
Frank Benn
> your right chas i rather fight the smaller and weakerbut you know whats
> funny its usually the smaller and weaker who run their mouths and get in
> trouble
It's true. I'm glad you brought this up; I was going to say the same
thing.
It *is* the smaller guys -- or at least shorter guys, under 6 ft. -- who run
their mouths and get into trouble.
Tim Greer - Linkworm Software
>
> Frank Benn wrote:
>
> Notice, we're running out of lions.
> Being small and fighting back is not a matter of 'bravery', it's a
> matter of *necessity*.
> hard football- all of that. So when he messed with this little guy, the
> little guy got two of his cousins and they carved him up like a turkey.
> The idea is to never meet a man like that 'head-on'- if I had to fight
> Hulk Hogan, I would have to fight him whether I'm bigger or smaller,
> stronger or weaker, well-trained or not.
> Why should I take any shit from him just because I can't stand up to him
> on his own ground, subject to his parameters of fighting?
> Screw'em- hit'im with a brick.
>
> Chas
> Vote Green!
> Nader for President
> It's a matter of integrity
*L*.. That's funny though.. I mean, it's true, it's not that you get
into fights because you can win. If you have to fight someone, you have
to fight them. However good, big or tough they are, they're attacking
you, at least give it your best shot and don't worry about not winning,
you have no choice but to think you can and try your best.
--
Regards,
Tim Greer: te...@linkworm.com | LinkWorm Software http://www.linkworm.com
Tel: 530 247-1749. Programming, CGI, Perl, C/C++, ASP, SQL, PHP & Design
Web Server & Network Administration, Security, Consulting, Installations
Configuration. Unix/Linux/FreeBSD & NT. Apache, IIS, TCP/IP, LAN/WAN/WWW
Tim Greer - Linkworm Software
Do you tell someone that's definitely going to attack/fight you that
you're going to hit them, if they are a threat to you or your safety?
Or, are you talking about in a setup, agreed to fight like boxing? It's
a fight, there's no such thing as "fair", it's getting away with the
least amount of damage or harm to you and nothing else at all. If a
fight can't be avoided and it's not your choice, then let's be honest --
rules and civility be damned. However, if you're talking about a sport
or someone that didn't want to fight you or wouldn't have otherwise and
someone sucker punches them, that's different.
John
<webm...@linkworm.com> wrote:
>John wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:33:33 -0400 (EDT), ama...@webtv.net (John
>> Carlo) wrote:
>>
>> >i always sucker punched every one, and when i say
>> >everyone iam talking over fifty guys
>>
>> sucker puncher = PUSSY
>>
>> John
>
>Do you tell someone that's definitely going to attack/fight you that
>you're going to hit them, if they are a threat to you or your safety?
He remarked "iam the lowest piece of trash there is."
Hitting a guy "while he is walking away --- it dont matter because
when its over the results are the same a big W for big daddy----"
When someone is walking away from you, I don't put that in the
category as "definitely going to attack/fight you," especially when
you go around saying shit like"I am the lowest piece of trash there
is," and "a big W for big daddy." Sounds like some retard who goes
around starting fights, not trying to protect himself from people who
"are a threat to you or your safety.".
>Or, are you talking about in a setup, agreed to fight like boxing?
Yeah, I'm talking about boxing. LOL.
>Its a fight, there's no such thing as "fair", it's getting away with the
>least amount of damage or harm to you and nothing else at all.
I never said anything about fairness. Just a very brief statement
about sucker punchers being pussies, that's all. Obviously, if
someone has the intent to fight you, then by all means hit them while
they're talking shit or when they're distracted.
>If a fight can't be avoided and it's not your choice, then let's be honest --
>rules and civility be damned. However, if you're talking about a sport
>or someone that didn't want to fight you or wouldn't have otherwise and
>someone sucker punches them, that's different.
That much is obvious. You've taken three words from my post and made
several false assumptions about my statement. You make it sound as
though Carlo's trying to protect his poor wittle self from people who
are a threat to his safety. He bragged about sucker punching over 50
guys. If you've been in over 50 street fights in your life and you've
sucker punched each and every person you've fought (as Carlo claims he
did), either you're a white guy who grew up in South Central, LA with
a swastika tatooed on your forehead, or your some pussy that goes
around sucker punching people because you can't finish the fights you
start otherwise. As far as I know, Carlo didn't grow up in South
Central.
John
Tim Greer - Linkworm Software
>
> iam not all that big 6'0 230 but nobody sneaks up on me iam the lowest
> piece of trash there is fighting to me means hit the motherfucker while
> he is talking, hands are down , takes his eye off me ,while he is
> walking away ---- it dont matter because when its over the results are
> the same a big W for big daddy---- when i was growing up alot of people
> knew me as a boxer and they get these stupid notions in their head iam
> going to put my hands up to fight and never fight dirty etc,etc
> suprise suprise when the front leg front kick smacks them in the bladder
> and i stop dropping bombs but you know i just remembered i never had to
> everyone iam talking over fifty guys
You sucker punch guys that are walking away? You have a choice and they
are of no threat to you physically, or to your ego even... that's not
cool. That doesn't say you're a good fighter for fighting dirty -- not
when the other guy is walking away and isn't trying to fight you.
JimS
spa...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com says...
>> Sure. But I think you and Chas. are talking about a couple different situations.
>> Chas. is talking real life, where how big and strong you are is fairly immaterial
>> when the little guys call in their friends and pack some heat.
>
>So you are saying that "big and nasty" doesn't carry any weight in the "real world"?
>I would strongly disagree.
>My statements *are* about the real world -- not the gym. Guns and bricks are not
>lying around in arms' reach everywhere you go.
Look. Guns *are* common, thank you, and so are knives. Little guys ain't stupid just
because they're little; everybody wants an equalizer. You're really talking about
two guys just getting it on, and "fair" fights. That's one thing, but the pack mentality
of kids is another. I guess you don't get much of the gang mentality in your area of
Texas.
JS
JimS
spa...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com says...
I have to agree. Reminds me of a cop I used to train with. In a school full of cops
and ex-cops.
Worst chip on the shoulder I ever saw. Shouldn't have been in
an authority position, but I'm sorry to say these screwballs seem to be pretty common
in police work. It's the attractiveness of being in "authority" that evidently appeals
to these little fightin' wonders, because they don't get any respect from physical
appearance, that's for sure.
Fortunately, psycho-cop couldn't fight worth a damn. Unfortunately, the clown is out
there serving and protecting you and me the taxpayers with a pissy attitude.
Actually, I've trained with several cops with piss-poor attitudes, must be something
in the water...But some guys were great. I guess you get little dickheads in every
profession.
JS
Russ Rader
> Russ Rader wrote:
> >
> > Unless the small guy is really nasty first, and doesn't leave the big
> > guy a chance to be nasty second. IOW, use Chas' philosophy and "hit'im
> > with a brick" before the big guy knows the fight has started.
>
> This looks fine on paper, but the real fight often starts with two people standing
> there. Where's your brick?
If not on me, then somewhere else. I had a little incident (can't
really call it a fight) as a kid, where a older, bigger kid and me were
face-to-face. Face-to-face he could have whupped my butt, and I knew
it. I ran around a corner. He ran around the corner. His knees
stopped at the corner, however, when they made contact with the big
stick I swung at them from behind the corner. After that, he didn't
want to get in my face anymore. Moral of the story: About the only
place that blunt objects can't be found is in a ring.
> Where's your chance to catch him when he isn't
> looking?
If I survive the fight, later. The fight's not over until I decide it
is, or I'm dead.
> I'll tell you where. Nowhere. Face to face, the man who has the tools is
> the man who walks away. We can talk about retaliating later "when he's not
> looking", about gaining "little guy" advantages, sneaking up on the big man,
> whatever, but it doesn't amount to anything when king kong has you in front of him
> and he's looking you down.
> And when kong puts the smack down, the little guy feels it just like anyone else.
> Arguably moreso.
Frank, you're not telling me anything I don't already know. I live in
the little guy's world every day. I know what it is like to have King
Kong in front of me as much as you do. Arguably moreso. I'm not saying
that, ceterus parabus, size doesn't matter. Believe me, I know that it
does. If I had to choose between a Matrix-style download of 20 years of
MA training into my current body, or the raw size, strength and fighting
ability of Sabertooth from the X-Men comics, I'd be telling my tailor to
prepare to make me a batch of bigger suits.
Russ
Tim Lavoie
>It's true. I'm glad you brought this up; I was going to say the same
>thing.
>
>It *is* the smaller guys -- or at least shorter guys, under 6 ft. -- who run
>their mouths and get into trouble.
Heheh. Nothing like a feeling of inferiority. This reminds me of a guy that
my wife used to torment at work. She's a sign-language interpreter, so in a
classroom, she has to stand right near the instructor so that the deaf
students can see the instructor, and still "listen". This one wee guy had a
problem with this, since she's about 5'10" barefoot. Knowing this, she'd
often wear 4" heels so she'd really tower over him. He'd try to avoid her,
and she'd just follow right along, "click-click-click-click". Drove him
snaky. :-)
--
Somewhere on this globe, every ten seconds, there is a woman giving birth
to a child. She must be found and stopped.
-- Sam Levenson
Badger
Jim.S...@Uchsc.edu (JimS) wrote:
> In article <39D42FB0...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com>,
> spa...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com says...
> >
full of cops
> and ex-cops.
> Worst chip on the shoulder I ever saw. Shouldn't have been in
> an authority position, but I'm sorry to say these screwballs seem to
be pretty common
> in police work. It's the attractiveness of being in "authority" that
evidently appeals
> to these little fightin' wonders, because they don't get any respect
from physical
> appearance, that's for sure.
> Fortunately, psycho-cop couldn't fight worth a damn. Unfortunately,
the clown is out
> there serving and protecting you and me the taxpayers with a pissy
attitude.
> Actually, I've trained with several cops with piss-poor attitudes,
must be something
> in the water...But some guys were great. I guess you get little
dickheads in every
> profession.
I was reading an article on the weekend about how the level of domestic
violence among cops in Canada is grossly higher than the norm. Probably
something to do with control/authority freaks being naturally attracted
to police work.
Badger
--
Shaolin Five Animals Kung Fu
& Filipino Martial Arts
http://www.cyberus.ca/~badger/
http://www.martialartsgala2000.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Chas
.....
> > > Unless the small guy is really nasty first, and doesn't leave the big
> > > guy a chance to be nasty second. IOW, use Chas' philosophy and "hit'im
> > > with a brick" before the big guy knows the fight has started.
> >
> > This looks fine on paper, but the real fight often starts with two people standing
> > there. Where's your brick?
If John Carlo is to be believed, his most effective technique is from
martial arts; Monkey Smacks the Unsuspecting. He relies on a 'trick',
just as any smaller or weaker person would.
The obvious solution to finding a brick is to look in your pocket-
smaller, weaker people often think ahead to a possible confrontation
with a larger person and carry what we like to call, a 'weapon'.
Now, many big strong active enduring well trained combatants think of a
'weapon' as, what they call, 'unfair'. The wonderful thing about America
is that they, themselves, can carry a weapon too- thus protecting
themselves from attacks by hordes of pissed off midgets.
Is this a great country or what?
tim
: On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:33:33 -0400 (EDT), ama...@webtv.net (John
: Carlo) wrote:
:>i always sucker punched every one, and when i say
:>everyone iam talking over fifty guys
: sucker puncher = PUSSY
i agree. you should never sucker punch someone.
-as chas would say, hit 'em with a brick. (or a bat, right russ? ;)
if you're gonna go, go all out. we can't all hit as hard as john carlo.
tim
Badger
Frank Benn <spa...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com> wrote:
> Chas wrote:
>
> > Frank Benn wrote:
Bigger
> > > is bigger.
> > > I've seen a lot of people forget this, and then relearn it. Big
and nasty
> > > beats small and nasty.
> >
> > See, I've never known anyone to forget it.
>
> <g>
>
> I have.
One of my students often talks about having to deal with "little guy
syndrome" where they see him, 6'4", and figure that if they throw
attitude at him, it makes them 6'4" as well.
Being a self-admitted little guy (5'8" and 145#), I love working against
the big guys in class, where I have to give up mass, reach, height,
strength, yada, yada... Makes me work whatever pluses I *do* have that
much harder.
Badger "Hi, my name is Badger, and I'm a little guy" "Hiiiii Badger"
Jones
John Carlo
since 1976 i fought amateur and pro and countless sparring fights
against all styels in no hold bouts and in wrestling,judo bjj ,
kickboxing --street fighting isnt fair and isnt a sport -but how many
guys you know fight in the ring with only you your opponent no cheap
shots-------i got more balls then a christmass tree johhny boy but on
the street iqm a fucking animal predaotr i destroy anyone who trys to
dis me , in the street your trying to take my manhood it aint happening
iam going to snap your fucking neck-------you keep looking for fair
fights ,you meet me ill make you a victim, when its all over you will be
the one saying WHY did he hit me or he sucker punched me Ill be walking
away with a piece of your ass stupid
John Carlo
thought i might lose-------i might let you talk ,i dont want to but you
are to mean to take on fair ------ill go to the john put alittle water
on the face then iam coming out for a do or die stand only iam blind
siding you-------see if me and you have a verbell conflict a war of
words and you win i cant live with it so i regroup and take that fucking
ass remember the fight doesnt begin untill i say it did-----you
disrepcet me you sdhit on me its not going to end there with you having
a big smile on your face bragging how you doged me ------- the man talks
shit walks away with a moral victory if i let it go he wins -if i
regroup and take him out iam the man again--------its the street guys if
you dont know the street you dont know what iam talking about
Kirk Lawson
John Carlo wrote:
> well guys what you dont understand is if you fucked with me and i
> thought i might lose-------i might let you talk ,i dont want to but you
> are to mean to take on fair ------ill go to the john put alittle water
> on the face then iam coming out for a do or die stand only iam blind
> siding you-------see if me and you have a verbell conflict a war of
> words and you win i cant live with it so i regroup and take that fucking
> ass remember the fight doesnt begin untill i say it did-----you
> disrepcet me you sdhit on me its not going to end there with you having
> a big smile on your face bragging how you doged me ------- the man talks
> shit walks away with a moral victory if i let it go he wins -if i
> regroup and take him out iam the man again
OK guys, I gotta agree with JC here. Unfortunately, there are a lot of
places where this is true. You let people dominate you verbally in these
places (and you KNOW where I mean) then you become a victim and everybody
will try to dominate you both verbally and physically.
When I was a kid, it was the wrong side of Dort Hwy. in Flint, MI. Here in
Dayton there are certain portions... Well, every city has 'em. We won't
even talk about Chicago, NY, etc.
> --------its the street guys if
> you dont know the street you dont know what iam talking about
There is also application in the Board Room, etc. Though you can't exactly
cold-cock somebody in those places, there are still rules of domination and
position.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk Lawson
Frank Benn
You guess wrong.
Russ Rader
> John <LBFi...@aol.com> wrote:
> : On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:33:33 -0400 (EDT), ama...@webtv.net (John
> : Carlo) wrote:
> :
> :>i always sucker punched every one, and when i say
> :>everyone iam talking over fifty guys
> :
> : sucker puncher = PUSSY
>
> i agree. you should never sucker punch someone.
>
> -as chas would say, hit 'em with a brick. (or a bat, right russ? ;)
Damn straight. ;-)
> if you're gonna go, go all out. we can't all hit as hard as john carlo.
That's for sure damn straight.
Russ
Russ Rader
> > Russ Rader wrote:
> > > Frank Benn wrote:
> > > > Russ Rader wrote:
> > > >
> > > > guy a chance to be nasty second. IOW, use Chas' philosophy and "hit'im
> > > > with a brick" before the big guy knows the fight has started.
> > >
> > > This looks fine on paper, but the real fight often starts with two people standing
> > > there. Where's your brick?
>
> If John Carlo is to be believed, his most effective technique is from
> martial arts; Monkey Smacks the Unsuspecting.
Oooh, you're gonna get it now. ;-)
> He relies on a 'trick',
> just as any smaller or weaker person would.
> The obvious solution to finding a brick is to look in your pocket-
> smaller, weaker people often think ahead to a possible confrontation
> with a larger person and carry what we like to call, a 'weapon'.
Yep. Of course, now we'll have to hear about how a weapon is no
substitute for size and strength, either. And it's true, a big guy
might be able to take me, anyhow. And he might be carrying a weapon,
too. But a weapon is still a big equalizer, else they wouldn't have
that bon mot about Sam'l Colt. At least with a weapon, I might take the
big guy out with me. That possibility will hopefully give the guy a
pause for reflection.
Russ
Frank Benn
> Frank Benn wrote:
> > Russ Rader wrote:
> > >
> > > Unless the small guy is really nasty first, and doesn't leave the big
> > > guy a chance to be nasty second. IOW, use Chas' philosophy and "hit'im
> > > with a brick" before the big guy knows the fight has started.
> >
> > This looks fine on paper, but the real fight often starts with two people standing
> > there. Where's your brick?
>
The problem is that fighting is being represented here as a multiple episode 3 stooges
movie. That's not how most fights are.
Real fights don't allow you to send away to ACME for some wily coyote equalizing
device. You're just there in plain sight of eachother, and what you bring to the table
is what you've got. THAT'S fighting. None of this, "I'll just sneak around the corner
and hit him with a boulder pulled taut by a giant rubber band."
If you have a chance to pull any of this roadrunner nonsense, then it's generally
because the confrontation is already over and now you want revenge. I've had people try
this. Usually the guy who backed down or already got his ass beat is the one who does
these things, and that's after it's over. It's not a part of most practical fighting --
just an inferiority complex.
Chas
> I was reading an article on the weekend about how the level of domestic
> violence among cops in Canada is grossly higher than the norm. Probably
> something to do with control/authority freaks being naturally attracted
> to police work.
I used to do psychometric testing for criminals and the State Patrol.
One of the indicators is called HGI (Hostility/Guilt Index); supposed to
be an indicator of criminality- guess who scored higher??
Really.
Guess.
Chas
> just an inferiority complex.
Not a complex.
I really *am* 'inferior' to most young, strong, quick, agile, enduring,
aggressive, combatants.
But I'm not going to take a whipping. It has to be forced on me.
Frank Benn
> well guys what you dont understand is if you fucked with me and i
> thought i might lose-------i might let you talk ,i dont want to but you
> are to mean to take on fair ------ill go to the john put alittle water
> on the face then iam coming out for a do or die stand only iam blind
> siding you-------see if me and you have a verbell conflict a war of
> words and you win i cant live with it so i regroup and take that fucking
> ass remember the fight doesnt begin untill i say it did-----you
> disrepcet me you sdhit on me its not going to end there with you having
> a big smile on your face bragging how you doged me ------- the man talks
> shit walks away with a moral victory if i let it go he wins -if i
> regroup and take him out iam the man again--------its the street guys if
> you dont know the street you dont know what iam talking about
I know the street. But to me, this approach just means you won't be able to
go back to that place again. The guy you do this to will have your number.
He comes back looking for you, brings a friend or two, a couple of baseball
bats in the trunk of his car, sets up an ambush. Especially if you move in
certain circles, live in a medium size town.
In other words, it just spirals upward until someone gets killed, while the
others do 25 years.
A fight is what happens NOW. Any ambushes and after effects are just
revenge. To me that's not street -- that's increasing the number of faces
you've got to remember, and the number of eyes you've got to grow in back of
your head. It's barroom stuff.
I realize you don't want some loudmouth to walk away thinking you're a punk,
thinking he got away with something. I don't do that either. Never have.
But I don't go away, and come back to blindside people either. I stand
right there and give them something to fear.
Anybody with experience who's still alive has their approach to fighting.
If it works for you, I say do it. My thing is I don't like to walk away
with accounts unsettled. People don't forget.
Chas
>
> well guys what you dont understand is if you fucked with me and i
> thought i might lose-------i might let you talk ,i dont want to but you
> are to mean to take on fair ------
Unless you're sporting a pink dress and eyeshadow, people see what you
look like when they come fucking with you. If they didn't think they had
something for you, they wouldn't be messing with you anyway.
--
Frank Benn
> Frank Benn wrote:
> > just an inferiority complex.
>
> Not a complex.
> I really *am* 'inferior' to most young, strong, quick, agile, enduring,
> aggressive, combatants.
> But I'm not going to take a whipping. It has to be forced on me.
>
Come on Chas. Standing there and doing what you have to do *in the moment*
is not a complex.
But walking away with no conflict imminent and coming back is not practical
fighting. It's part of that upward spiral I already mentioned. These are
the guys who end up on slabs with a toe tag.
David L. Burkhead
news:39D4D7B9...@ford.com...
> > Chas wrote:
> > > Russ Rader wrote:
> > > > Frank Benn wrote:
> > > > > Russ Rader wrote:
> > > > > Unless the small guy is really nasty first, and doesn't leave the
big
> > > > > guy a chance to be nasty second. IOW, use Chas' philosophy and
"hit'im
> > > > > with a brick" before the big guy knows the fight has started.
> > > >
> > > > This looks fine on paper, but the real fight often starts with two
people standing
> > > > there. Where's your brick?
> > If John Carlo is to be believed, his most effective technique is from
> > martial arts; Monkey Smacks the Unsuspecting.
> Oooh, you're gonna get it now. ;-)
> > He relies on a 'trick',
> > just as any smaller or weaker person would.
> > The obvious solution to finding a brick is to look in your pocket-
> > smaller, weaker people often think ahead to a possible confrontation
> > with a larger person and carry what we like to call, a 'weapon'.
> Yep. Of course, now we'll have to hear about how a weapon is no
> substitute for size and strength, either. And it's true, a big guy
> might be able to take me, anyhow. And he might be carrying a weapon,
> too. But a weapon is still a big equalizer, else they wouldn't have
> that bon mot about Sam'l Colt. At least with a weapon, I might take the
> big guy out with me. That possibility will hopefully give the guy a
> pause for reflection.
"God made men short and tall.
"Samuel Colt made them equal."
;)
--
David L. Burkhead "Dum vivimus, vivamus!"
Advanced Surface Microscopy, Inc. "While we live, let us LIVE!"
mailto:d.bur...@worldnet.att.net
http://www.sff.net/people/dburkhead
Space -- Japanese Animation -- History -- Science Fiction
disclaimer: none of the opinions in this message are necessarily
those of ASM, Inc.
Chas
> Come on Chas. Standing there and doing what you have to do *in the moment*
> is not a complex.
That's what I said- not a 'complex'-
>
> But walking away with no conflict imminent and coming back is not practical
> fighting. It's part of that upward spiral I already mentioned. These are
> the guys who end up on slabs with a toe tag.
what's your point?
Frank Benn
> Frank Benn wrote:
> > Come on Chas. Standing there and doing what you have to do *in the moment*
> > is not a complex.
>
> That's what I said- not a 'complex'-
> >
> > But walking away with no conflict imminent and coming back is not practical
> > fighting. It's part of that upward spiral I already mentioned. These are
> > the guys who end up on slabs with a toe tag.
>
> what's your point?
>
My point is that you're responding out of context.
Doing what you've got to do in a fight is what real fighting is. No argument
there.
But the whole "coming back later for revenge" thing is not a part of practical
fighting. If you got to go home in the first place, stay home and sleep it off.
To me, a person who understands fighting is practical about it. If I let a guy
off light and he comes back with a friend, I'll kick his *and* his friend's ass.
He should've just gone home and counted himself lucky. I'll even be diplomatic,
to a point. But when it comes down to it, I hit twice as fast and three times as
hard as the next guy. He should've just gone home.
JimS
spa...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com says...
>The problem is that fighting is being represented here as a multiple episode 3 stooges
>movie. That's not how most fights are.
>Real fights don't allow you to send away to ACME for some wily coyote equalizing
>device. You're just there in plain sight of eachother, and what you bring to the table
>is what you've got. THAT'S fighting. None of this, "I'll just sneak around the corner
>and hit him with a boulder pulled taut by a giant rubber band."
Frank, I agree with some of your comments but I get kind of a "3 stooges" feeling when
you talk about the little guy having to look somewhere for a weapon. Have you ever
seen what comes out of the pocket of the average high school kid these days?
JS
Russ Rader
>
> But I don't go away, and come back to blindside people either. I stand
> right there and give them something to fear.
Little guys generally can't do that head-on and unarmed, Frank. That's
half my point.
> Anybody with experience who's still alive has their approach to fighting.
> If it works for you, I say do it. My thing is I don't like to walk away
> with accounts unsettled. People don't forget.
Little guys included. That's the other half of my point.
Russ
Mike McKenzie
Carlo) wrote:
>------ the man talks shit walks away with a moral victory if i let it go he wins
>-if i regroup and take him out iam the man again--------
Where I'm from, a man who talks shit isn't nothing but a two bit piece
of shit that doesn't impress anyone but himself.
If some guy displaying empty posturing takes your feeling of manliness
away, then it sounds like you have self esteem problems.
Mike
Mike McKenzie
>John <LBFi...@aol.com> wrote:
>: On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:33:33 -0400 (EDT), ama...@webtv.net (John
>: Carlo) wrote:
>:
>:>i always sucker punched every one, and when i say
>:>everyone iam talking over fifty guys
>:
>: sucker puncher = PUSSY
>
>i agree. you should never sucker punch someone.
Only in certain circumstances do I think sucker punching is
okay/necessary. To me, someone who always sucker punches no matter
what is showing they are weak, either physically, mentally or both.
Mike
>
>-as chas would say, hit 'em with a brick. (or a bat, right russ? ;)
>if you're gonna go, go all out. we can't all hit as hard as john carlo.
>
>
>
> tim
Mike McKenzie
wrote:
>I was reading an article on the weekend about how the level of domestic
>violence among cops in Canada is grossly higher than the norm. Probably
>something to do with control/authority freaks being naturally attracted
>to police work.
I think a good part of it can also be attributed to the extreme
stresses they face on the job.
Mike
>
>Badger
Mike McKenzie
<spa...@NOSPAMINTEGRATEDARTShotmail.com> wrote:
Damn skippy. Well put.
Mike
>I know the street. But to me, this approach just means you won't be able to
>go back to that place again. The guy you do this to will have your number.
>He comes back looking for you, brings a friend or two, a couple of baseball
>bats in the trunk of his car, sets up an ambush. Especially if you move in
>certain circles, live in a medium size town.
>
>In other words, it just spirals upward until someone gets killed, while the
>others do 25 years.
>
>A fight is what happens NOW. Any ambushes and after effects are just
>revenge. To me that's not street -- that's increasing the number of faces
>you've got to remember, and the number of eyes you've got to grow in back of
>your head. It's barroom stuff.
>
>I realize you don't want some loudmouth to walk away thinking you're a punk,
>thinking he got away with something. I don't do that either. Never have.
>But I don't go away, and come back to blindside people either. I stand
>right there and give them something to fear.
>
Eric Iverson
> >It *is* the smaller guys -- or at least shorter guys, under 6 ft. -- who run
> >their mouths and get into trouble.
>
> my wife used to torment at work. She's a sign-language interpreter, so in a
> classroom, she has to stand right near the instructor so that the deaf
> students can see the instructor, and still "listen". This one wee guy had a
> problem with this, since she's about 5'10" barefoot. Knowing this, she'd
> often wear 4" heels so she'd really tower over him. He'd try to avoid her,
> and she'd just follow right along, "click-click-click-click". Drove him
> snaky. :-)
I'm a six-footer (no inferiority complex here, thank you ;-)
and whenever I see a same-height or taller woman at the mall
I look down and see that invariably she's wearing thick heels.
Apparently being 5'10" just isn't enough for a lot of women.
--Eric
Russ Rader
>
> The problem is that fighting is being represented here as a multiple episode 3 stooges
> movie.
No. Like I said, fights aren't over until both parties decide that they
are.
> That's not how most fights are.
> Real fights don't allow you to send away to ACME for some wily coyote equalizing
> device.
A knife or a gun is a Wile E. Coyote equalizing device? Get real,
Frank. Guns and knives are very real world, lots of people carry them
on their persons at all times, and they can help an otherwise small and
unimpressive individual suddenly capture your complete and undivided
attention.
> You're just there in plain sight of eachother, and what you bring to the table
> is what you've got. THAT'S fighting.
Yes it is, no doubt about it. And that kind of fighting is loaded so
that the big guy has an advantage. Which is why the little guy
shouldn't take part in it, if at all possible. Instead, if possible,
the little guy might consider tactics such as strategic retreat to
obtain an equalizing weapon, followed by attack from ambush as the enemy
rushes in after. THAT'S nipping a fight in the bud, and the little guy
is wise to consider it. Because, even if the little guy has MA
training, and that includes progressive MMA training, chances are that
the little guy will still lose if he doesn't resort to using
ruthlessness, surprising tactics, and weapons.
In a nutshell: I've never said that these tactics are a substitute for
training. I've never said that they are a substitute for size and
strength. I am saying that the little guy has to work with what he's
got. Weapons, ruthlessness and surprise, combined with training,
maximize his ability to do so.
> None of this, "I'll just sneak around the corner
> and hit him with a boulder pulled taut by a giant rubber band."
You're right there, Frank. Those giant rubber bands are *very*
unreliable. I prefer the giant magnet and iron beer nuts, myself. ;-)
> If you have a chance to pull any of this roadrunner nonsense, then it's generally
> because the confrontation is already over and now you want revenge.
> I've had people try this.
Apparently, they only half-heartedly tried. If someone wants, really
wants, to fuck you over from ambush, there's not a whole lot you are
going to be able to do about it.
> Usually the guy who backed down or already got his ass beat is the one who does
> these things, and that's after it's over.
Yeah. So? Some little guy walking up to you, spitting 151 in your
face, and then lighting it, can still ruin your whole day. It doesn't
really matter if you won round one of your fight with him or not. It
doesn't really matter if that doesn't fit into your idea of fighting or
not. Little guys have two choices: 1) fight back the only way they can,
or 2) eat shit all day, every day. Wonder which they'll pick?
> It's not a part of most practical fighting --
> just an inferiority complex.
See above.
Russ