Has anyone trained under both Gracie and Machado Jiu-jitsu? From what I
hear from people who have, the Gracies are less willing to share a lot of
techniques, especially the more effective and dangerous ones. I can
understand this having been in Relson's class. He really stresses safety
and won't teach ankle locks to beginners and in the [admittedly few]
classes I attended he didn't allow ankle locks in the free practice. But
does anyone feel that another part of the reason is that they want to keep
some techniques secret? For example, the Machados showed a technique that
if the peole that fought Royce or Oleg knew, I'm sure the fight would have
been over very quickly. There are many weaknesses in the guard position,
but this one would really put the guy in the guard at a severe
disadvantage. It was an amazingly simple and dangerous technique, and
when I had it done to me by someone that just learned it, there was no way
I could escape and had to tap. No, it was not an ankle lock, and it would
definitely be illegal in judo. I think part of the reason is that they're
afraid if they shared everything, there would be a greater number of
people that would be able to defeat them.
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: Has anyone trained under both Gracie and Machado Jiu-jitsu? From what I
: hear from people who have, the Gracies are less willing to share a lot of
: techniques, especially the more effective and dangerous ones. I can
: understand this having been in Relson's class. He really stresses safety
: and won't teach ankle locks to beginners and in the [admittedly few]
: classes I attended he didn't allow ankle locks in the free practice. But
: does anyone feel that another part of the reason is that they want to keep
: some techniques secret?
No. Perhaps the Machados may teach them at a sooner level, but I don't
think the Gracies purposely hide certain techniques. Watch their fights
(UFCs, Vale Tudos, In Action, Gracie/Kukok tapes) and you'll see that
they use the same moves they teach. I know that certain techniques (such
as knee locks) aren't taught at the early levels and not allowed in free
sparing because of the potential for severe damage they can cause.
Lates!
----------------------------------
Tim <body...@netcom.com>
"Finger" for PGP v2.6.2 Public Key
"When in doubt, choke 'em out!!"
: times fairly quickly. Also why the Machados recently took 1st place in
: the World Jiu Jitsu championship. They beat both the Gracie team and the
: Brazilian team.
Really!?! Man, I wish I lived in California... :)
__________________________________________________________________________
Robin Sarac, CET -- aka "spot" email: rsa...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
jujutsu / aikido / music / computers / philosophy / irc
__________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________
So the Machado's do compete in tournaments. Now I have a question...Do they
compete in the same style ("no rules") tournaments as the Gracie's? If yes,
do they avoid the one's in which a Gracie is competing (or vice versa). If
no, why not? Anyone know?
Jon.
--
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|"Are ye maidens with your downcast eyes? Look well upon it. |
| See all of it. Close your eyes to nothing. For the battle |
| is fought to be won. And it is this that happens if you lose." |
| -Jean de Rye, Knight of Burgundy |
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Anthony
: The Machados do not compete in "no rules" tournaments. They compete in
Actually, Rorion pulled out of the Pan American BJJ tournament
because he didn't want the patented name GJJ be used to promote
the event. When you have a couple of Brazilian national teams
competing, it doesn't get anymore real than that!
- Brian
1. The Gracie team was not represented. 2. The Machados had a lot of
ringers from Brazil representing their school. 3. Craig Kukuk might have
a blck belt, but that doesn't preclude someone with tremendous talent and
physical ability from beating him. Also consider that though he might
have only been training with the Machados for three years, his background
in other grappling arts (ie. Judo and Wrestling) might well be much more
extensive than Mr. Kukuk's. The Machados are very good. Many say that
they are better than most Gracies (Rickson is another case however). This
doesn't mean that they know more or have secret techniques; they might
just have better timing and balance. Remember that the Machados and the
Gracies have trained together for years. If the Machados have such
secret techniques which you talk about, then THEY would be the ones guilty
of with holding information.
I wish Rorion wasnt as much of a money-hog.
He's soo worried about trying to make a buck, he's hurting his family
image. In my opinion...
Imagine if there was some dude trying to make a dollar everytime someone
used the word "Karate".
Eventually people will avoid it.
Soon Gracie Jiu-Jitsu will be referred to as "brazillian jj" just to
avoid hassles with Rorion. And thats like working against the advancement
of "Gracie jiu jitsu".
I have been practicing GJJ for a little while now, and I can go to a blue
belt in Columbus, Ohio to get my technique down pat. Up until now, the
blue belt (actually there are 2 blue belts) charged $10 as a mat fee. Now
that he is a 'Registered' GJJ trainer, I have to pay $60/yr, one time $30
GJJ registration, and $15/workout to a max of $45/month. These prices are
forced - not by the blue belt's choice.
Sorry, but the academy is not going to get students this way.
Brandon
Who are you referring to? I know a guy named Greg Eldred that I used to
train with that moved to Ohio. I was wondering if it was the same guy.
--
Michael Dash
das...@earthlink.net
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The best schools for BJJ in the Southern California area are Machado
Jiu-Jitsu located in Redondo Beach and Pedro Carvalho Jiu-Jitsu located in
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I am not familiar with Greg Eldred. I train with Jeff Hudson and another
blue belt who's first name is Vince... I am aware of a couple of blue
belts (maybe even higher???) in Cleveland that are really gung-ho for the
stuff, but I've never met them. I'll find out this week when I go to class.
Brandon
Is this true? Where did you get this information?? I'
m just curious.
-jtm
-jtm<
A student of Rickson's told this to my JJ teacher, who in turn told me.