Whats the best art that doesn't work?
SPORTfighter
utterly don't work.
So there's alot to choose from in deciding your favorite.
I'm gonna go with Aikido.
And not just cause'a the uniforms.
Hakama's really do work for me,though.They give the illusion of grace
to all but the clumsiest rich middle aged white dudes.
I also like Aikido for other more crucial reasons.
NO HORSE STANCE.That just looks so gay.In fact all kata is just about
the gayest thing a hetero sexual man can do.Aside from actually taking
it in the ass, of course.
Plus I just plain like the word AI-KI-DO ...sounds cool.
Now out of curiosity whats your favorite art that is completely
bullshit?
Gi
ltldragn
truly on what you developed from your chosen discipline. You do however
have to adjust to the situation that's presented to you in a real
life situation no matter what art you study. No art is complete within
itself, if your style consists of mainly kicking and no grappling or
pain points, or jitzu techniques, chances are you will not be prepared
for an attack on an icy sidewalk or are grabbed in a phone booth by a
mugger. What about being held underwater in a swimming pool perhaps. Or
if the fight goes to the ground (which most do) and you can't wrestle?
Kata and forms teach us to move better than average, build up
cardiovascular endurance and train us in our techniques. Developing
coordination of your entire body will give you a big advantage over an
unskilled attacker.
Even the "gay looking horse stance" as you put it has its benefits; it
trains a powerful base for your attack and can be unmovable after
diligent practice. It also builds allot of strength and develops root
for other techniques. Like punching to the side for instance.
Everything out there is good but none of it I think should be law. Use
your system to develop skills that are useful but attain knowledge of
everything you can and adjust your skills according to realistic
situations. If your system doesn't cover what you need, seek out the
info that you are weak in and add it to your arsenal...It's your body,
whatever helps you protect it will never be bullshit if it works for
you when you truly need it.
ltldragn
SPORTfighter
ltldragn wrote:
> If you ask me,
Well...I didn't.I most definatly wasnt asking you.
all of the arts have applicable qualities; it depends
> truly on what you developed from your chosen discipline. You do however
> have to adjust to the situation that's presented to you in a real
> life situation no matter what art you study. No art is complete within
> itself, if your style consists of mainly kicking and no grappling or
> pain points, or jitzu techniques, chances are you will not be prepared
> for an attack on an icy sidewalk or are grabbed in a phone booth by a
> mugger. What about being held underwater in a swimming pool perhaps. Or
> if the fight goes to the ground (which most do) and you can't wrestle?
> Kata and forms teach us to move better than average, build up
> cardiovascular endurance and train us in our techniques. Developing
> coordination of your entire body will give you a big advantage over an
> unskilled attacker.
> Even the "gay looking horse stance" as you put it has its benefits;
In a gay bar...maybe.
it
> trains a powerful base for your attack and can be unmovable after
> diligent practice.
You are confusing the "horse stance" with marvel comics character "The
Juggernaut".
Happens.
It also builds allot of strength and develops root
> for other techniques.
Squatting builds strength.Therr horse stance just gets you good at
opening your sphincter, an holdin it open.
Like punching to the side for instance.
Which of course is THE WRONG way to punch.
Which explains why okinawans and japanese dont exactly yet dominate
boxing.
> Everything out there is good but none of it I think should be law. Use
> your system to develop skills that are useful but attain knowledge of
> everything you can and adjust your skills according to realistic
> situations. If your system doesn't cover what you need, seek out the
> info that you are weak in and add it to your arsenal...It's your body,
> whatever helps you protect it will never be bullshit if it works for
> you when you truly need it.
> ltldragn
Gi
Fraser Johnston
"SPORTfighter" <billam...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1136148125.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Wushu. Heaps of flashy crap and every class you get to pretend you are
Jackie Chan.
Fraser
Kevin Lowe
"SPORTfighter" <billam...@yahoo.com> wrote:
i like that Chen tai chi. It looks really cool, especially when you put
a tape of it in the VCR and fast-forward it.
Anything with floppy weapons, like the chinese floppy spears and floppy
swords rocks my world too.
--
Kevin Lowe,
Tasmania.
Sutemi
that's an integral part of the art, like the soundtrack to Mortal
Combat. You also get to be black, brazilian, have washboard abs and
wear comfy pyjama bottoms, all things that chicks dig.
ltldragn
Like being courteous, or humble and above all respect for others or
their styles. And what is it with this fascination you have with the
male sphincter anyway? Maybe you should take up sewing instead of
martial arts.
Topo Gigio
> In a gay bar...maybe.
> Gi
You know much about gay bars don't you?
GreenDistantStar
Is there ~any~ art that is *completely* and *utterly* doesn't work? I dunno.
Depends who you are using them on.
Aikido does have some effective techniques against opponents who know
nothing...but then again so does just about any ma.
So for me it's how much of an ma is effective...the % of what works to what
is taught and in this regard, I think it's Kung Fu.
Built on erroneous foundations, it has more unworkable crap than most any
other.
Otoh guys with great attributes can make most any ma work, up to a point
anyway.
It's sad that so many fine human specimens waste their time with phoney
ma's, when they could be learning useful stuff and actually becoming the
real badasses they imagine themselves to be.
GDS
Bag-eating Bonobo
SPORTfighter wrote:
> There are a ton of sweet martial arts out there that completely and
> utterly don't work.
wrestling.
carl
Topo Gigio
"GreenDistantStar" <GreenNOSPAM...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:xs0uf.166230$V7.5...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> It's sad that so many fine human specimens waste their time with phoney
> ma's, when they could be learning useful stuff and actually becoming the
> real badasses they imagine themselves to be.
>
> GDS
>
You have just described the typical BJJ type.
Ray
> Now out of curiosity whats your favorite art that is completely
> bullshit?
Definitely Capoeira! Never seen it done in fights except in only the
strong, but ain't that a SHWEET art.
> Gi
SPORTfighter
I dont learn lessons.I teach them.
"Like being courteous, or humble and above all respect for others or
their styles."
What is this 19th century upper class emgland? Well good day and
cheerio pip.Now be a good lad and run me a bath.
" And what is it with this fascination you have with the
male sphincter anyway? "
Are you saying you hate gay people? Cause im hearing that.
HATER!!!!!!!!!!!
"Maybe you should take up sewing instead of
martial arts."
They sewed your mommas spincter back up....
AFTER I TORE IT UP BUT GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, I went there.
Im a wild card.
Gi
SPORTfighter
Good to see there are a few TMAers still willin' to fight the good
fight.
I had thought we chased em all off the net.
Now will you own this bitch or shall I?
Gi
antipodean....@fakegmail.com
Capoeria - hot chicks, funky moves, good workout.
- If it flies, floats or fucks, you are better off
renting it.
************************************************************
Remove FAKE to email me
*************************************************************
Dougie
> Even the "gay looking horse stance" as you put it has its benefits; it
>trains a powerful base for your attack and can be unmovable after
>diligent practice.
....
BWAH HA HA HA HA!
Dougie
>I see you haven't learned any true lessons about the real martial arts?
>Like being courteous, or humble and above all respect for others or
>their styles.
Nice to see mcdojo's still push that crap on people.
Kevin Lowe
"ltldragn" <ltld...@ptd.net> wrote:
> I see you haven't learned any true lessons about the real martial arts?
> Like being courteous, or humble and above all respect for others or
> their styles.
You'll find we aren't too strong on that over here. The true lesson
about real martial arts is that with practise you can develop the
attributes and skills to fuck people up.
The ability to fuck people up is how political power is maintained, and
martial culture is the means by which those who do the fucking-up are
kept subservient to those who order the fucking-up. This is a good
thing and in fact is one of the bases of civilisation.
However given that we are hobbyists studying obsolete methods of
fucking-up for fun, studying and/or emulating the culture that used to
go with particular branches of martial skill is just a sidelight.
> And what is it with this fascination you have with the
> male sphincter anyway? Maybe you should take up sewing instead of
> martial arts.
It's an obsolete metaphor for domination and control over another man.
We do keep some of the old ways alive.
--
Kevin Lowe,
Tasmania.
Topo Gigio
"Dougie" <dougee...@NOSPAM.canada.NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:1hlhr11doq8m0m0c0...@4ax.com...
> On 1 Jan 2006 18:06:47 -0800, "ltldragn" <ltld...@ptd.net> wrote:
>
>>I see you haven't learned any true lessons about the real martial arts?
>>Like being courteous, or humble and above all respect for others or
>>their styles.
>
> Nice to see mcdojo's still push that crap on people.
>
>
> Dougie
The traditional martial arts have been around long before the so called MMA
and will be around long after they are gone. MMA appeal to a small group of
WWE types that like to watch steroid bloated homosexuals role around in a
sweaty mass.
Topo Gigio
"Kevin Lowe" <m...@private.net> wrote in message
news:me-2D4B6E.19...@news01.comindico.com.au...
>> And what is it with this fascination you have with the
>> male sphincter anyway? Maybe you should take up sewing instead of
>> martial arts.
>
> It's an obsolete metaphor for domination and control over another man.
> We do keep some of the old ways alive.
>
> --
> Kevin Lowe,
> Tasmania.
You would like us to believe it is obsolete wouldn't you?
GreenDistantStar
> Why GDS I *do* believe that you've just been zinged.
It appears so....
> Good to see there are a few TMAers still willin' to fight the good
> fight.
Sure. This one is pretty gay, though....
> I had thought we chased em all off the net.
Still a few pockets of resistance....
> Now will you own this bitch or shall I?
> Gi
Make this bitch your bitch, you bastard.....
GDS
Wayne Dobson
> "ltldragn" <ltld...@ptd.net> wrote:
>
> > I see you haven't learned any true lessons about the real martial arts?
> > Like being courteous, or humble and above all respect for others or
> > their styles.
>
> You'll find we aren't too strong on that over here. The true lesson
> about real martial arts is that with practise you can develop the
> attributes and skills to fuck people up.
Well yes, primarily.
> The ability to fuck people up is how political power is maintained, and
> martial culture is the means by which those who do the fucking-up are
> kept subservient to those who order the fucking-up. This is a good
> thing and in fact is one of the bases of civilisation.
Yet you describe the basis of savagery. I see how there is no such
distinction in your mind.
> However given that we are hobbyists studying obsolete methods of
> fucking-up for fun, studying and/or emulating the culture that used to
> go with particular branches of martial skill is just a sidelight.
Yes, what you study does smack of "obselete."
> > And what is it with this fascination you have with the
> > male sphincter anyway? Maybe you should take up sewing instead of
> > martial arts.
>
> It's an obsolete metaphor for domination and control over another man.
I personally think that the behaviour you describe is a metaphor for having
a small dick.
> We do keep some of the old ways alive.
If only you could say the same for your shrivelled little dick.
--
Wayne
"Aka Dobbie the House Elf."
Justin
: There are a ton of sweet martial arts out there that completely and
: utterly don't work.
: So there's alot to choose from in deciding your favorite.
...
: Now out of curiosity whats your favorite art that is completely
: bullshit?
I'll go with BJJ. Though it's shown its effectiveness in one-on-one
no-weapons restrictive-rules fighting, it is essentially useless if a
couple of people come at you on the street, bottles-in-hand, wishing to
knock you a good one about the skull.
Justin
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
What art did you use when this happened to you Justin? Run-fu, or gun-fu?
BJJ is a base art and compliments your other abilities. I daresay you won't
find a BJJ exponent that doesn't have a solution to this that's better than
yours. Why? Because they train with resisting opponents, have good
attributes, know when to run vs fight, and know their own abilities quite
well.
TMA stylists might take them on with kicking or striking, but they'll soon
find they are out of their depth if they're not careful. Having little
actual sparring experience they don't know their pain tolerance, and have
real problems with distancing and use of the closer ranges.
I have a fighting solution, but was wondering what yours was. Post it and
I'll post mine. ;-)
-B
T.the.Ma...@gmail.com
for an attack on an icy sidewalk or are grabbed in a phone booth by a
mugger. What about being held underwater in a swimming pool perhaps. Or
if the fight goes to the ground (which most do) and you can't wrestle?
"
These are all clinch and rolling stuff, IMHO. Nyah nyah nyah nyah
nyah. ;-)
"Even the "gay looking horse stance" as you put it has its benefits; it
trains a powerful base for your attack and can be unmovable after
diligent practice."
So you stand still while I beat you to death. My, yes, that IS useful.
;-)
T.the.Ma...@gmail.com
2. Run fu
3. Fight
I will say that on the two occasions I played rough with the SCA shinai
guys in the park,
THAT HURT.
And shinais are pansy little sissy practice toys, split bamboo so you
DON'T get injured. Two guys with baseball bats are a gun or run
problem, and even then, some big fat guys are shockingly fast in the
sprint, way faster than me. If I can keep away the first hundred yards
I'm probably safe from that kind, though.
Bottles I'd have to think about; not the absolute safest thing to have
in your hand.
ghoul-cow
> There are a ton of sweet martial arts out there that completely and
> utterly don't work.
> So there's alot to choose from in deciding your favorite.
> I'm gonna go with Aikido.
> And not just cause'a the uniforms.
> Hakama's really do work for me,though.They give the illusion of grace
> to all but the clumsiest rich middle aged white dudes.
> I also like Aikido for other more crucial reasons.
> NO HORSE STANCE.That just looks so gay.In fact all kata is just about
> the gayest thing a hetero sexual man can do.Aside from actually taking
> it in the ass, of course.
> Plus I just plain like the word AI-KI-DO ...sounds cool.
> Now out of curiosity whats your favorite art that is completely
> bullshit?
> Gi
yours is mma apparently.
--
GHOULCOW!GHOULCOW!GHOULCOW!GHOULCOW!GHOULCOW!GHOULCOWGHOULCOW!GHOULCOW!GHOULCOW!GHOULCOW!GHOULCOW!GHOULCOW!GHOULCOW!GHOULCOW!!GHOULCOW!GHOULCOW!
Justin
: >I'll go with BJJ. Though it's shown its effectiveness in one-on-one
: >no-weapons restrictive-rules fighting, it is essentially useless if a
: >couple of people come at you on the street, bottles-in-hand, wishing to
: >knock you a good one about the skull.
Badger_s<Badg...@south.com wrote:
: What art did you use when this happened to you Justin? Run-fu, or gun-fu?
Didn't happen to me. I was making an observation based on what I've seen
of BJJ, much as Gi made an observation based on what he's seen of Aikido.
: BJJ is a base art and compliments your other abilities.
Absolutely, it's very nice and I would never knock the one-on-one ability
of anyone who practices it.
: TMA stylists might take them on with kicking or striking, but they'll soon
: find they are out of their depth if they're not careful.
Absolutely, but the bit about being out-of-depth also applies to BJJers
too. It applies to anyone who's not careful.
But back to the reason i wrote what I did: My thought would be that the
BJJer will do what he's trained to do - go to the ground with certain
assumptions in mind - and will get himself into a very hairy position
quickly. Some arts (not necessarily TMAs) train in movement against
multiple opponents. Being familiar with what it feels like when three
people are trying to get you is important.
Justin
si
> There are a ton of sweet martial arts out there that completely and
> utterly don't work.
> So there's alot to choose from in deciding your favorite.
> I'm gonna go with Aikido.
> And not just cause'a the uniforms.
> Hakama's really do work for me,though.They give the illusion of grace
> to all but the clumsiest rich middle aged white dudes.
> I also like Aikido for other more crucial reasons.
> NO HORSE STANCE.That just looks so gay.In fact all kata is just about
> the gayest thing a hetero sexual man can do.Aside from actually taking
> it in the ass, of course.
> Plus I just plain like the word AI-KI-DO ...sounds cool.
> Now out of curiosity whats your favorite art that is completely
> bullshit?
> Gi
>
Gi - I told you about my mate Andy when the smack head came at him with the
drill bit in one hand and a screw driver in the other. He did a text book
kote gasji and then held him there until the police came.
Please post your real life situation now and how BJJ helped you in it.
Kevin Lowe
wrote:
Hey, this thread is for arts that don't work!
--
Kevin Lowe,
Tasmania.
SPORTfighter
Jan 2, 4:28 pm show options
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: "Justin" <n...@spam.com> - Find messages by this author
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 21:28:49 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Mon, Jan 2 2006 4:28 pm
Subject: Re: Whats the best art that doesn't work?
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse
I wrote:
: >I'll go with BJJ. Though it's shown its effectiveness in one-on-one
: >no-weapons restrictive-rules fighting, it is essentially useless if
a
: >couple of people come at you on the street, bottles-in-hand, wishing
to
: >knock you a good one about the skull.
Badger_s<Badge...@south.com wrote:
: What art did you use when this happened to you Justin? Run-fu, or
gun-fu?
Didn't happen to me. I was making an observation based on what I've
seen
of BJJ, much as Gi made an observation based on what he's seen of
Aikido."
I sparred aikido guys more times than I can recall.
Dont assume.
As for BJJ, you are correct.It has limits.However at least it makes its
players strong and toigh due to sparring hard.
"Some arts (not necessarily TMAs) train in movement against
multiple opponents. Being familiar with what it feels like when three
people are trying to get you is important"
Which arts spar vs three people?
Gi
si
Well, I assume we are talkin g about what works in a real situation.
I would like to hear Gi's real situation.
GreenDistantStar
"si" <a...@a.com> wrote in message
news:Gvmuf.10397$W4....@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
> Well, I assume we are talkin g about what works in a real situation.
>
> I would like to hear Gi's real situation.
This is like asking a pro basketballer whether he's played any 'real life'
basketball, you know, down at the projects with homey and the gang.
That's the biz, not any of that NBL 'sports' stuff.
GDS
Justin
: I sparred aikido guys more times than I can recall. Dont assume.
Fair enough and I respect you for it and apologize. However if I were
given the choice of competency given the real-world situations which occur
here where I live (urban Washington DC), BJJ would not be high on my list.
Please also note that my comment on Aikido is not meant to set up a
this-versus-that situation.
I've known four people who got in "incidents" in the past year near here.
In two of them there were weapons (knife, baseball bat) involved and in
the other two there were multiple attackers (four, two) involved.
I would prefer an art (not BJJ nor Aikido in fact) which emphasized quick
strikes and lots of movement.
: Which arts spar vs three people?
When I trained in Aikido we sparred versus three and five, both with
weapons and without. Got my ass kicked mostly but I learned to move.
When I trained in karate we trained versus three.
Justin
Dougie
>The traditional martial arts have been around long before the so called MMA
>and will be around long after they are gone. MMA appeal to a small group of
>WWE types that like to watch steroid bloated homosexuals role around in a
>sweaty mass.
Man, the trolls here are awful. I mean, isn't there any troll
left of understands the job and does it with some real panache?
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
<spew> Thanks man. LOL.
You know this 'splaining' MMA, BJJ, hard training, aliveness and soforth
has really gotten old. (but it's still phun).
We should have just completely kept it all secret and not filled in anybody
about the details, the means and the benefits.
After all, why do that to one's prospective 'opponents'?
You simply walk in pwn all the TMAers and newbs and don't explain a thing,
collect your bet money and leave. They end up thnking it's magic or
sumpthin', heh.
But No-o-o-o.... <g>
Remember...
It's what the neijia guys did, going to a listserver and making everything
cryptic and 'hidden' and lost in verbiage.
Google neijia:
"The Neijia mailing list is a closed, private list where the essential
criteria for being on the list are that discussions are primarily focused
on concrete ..."
Yeah, it's focussed on concrete alright.
It's what the Wing Chun guys did only they went to the biggest extreme
making entry into -their listserver by invitation only.
Google: wing chun listserver:
"It is a private, closed listserver comprised of Wing Chun practitioners,
new and experienced, young and old, male and female, from all different
branches of "
Yep it's a bunch of branches all right. ;-)
What's so funny is that all of the stuff they have isn't worth a pack of
gum, it turns out. Bwahahahahaha...
BJJ, MMA is by contrast, completely out in the open, yet completely
unobtainable by any of them if they don't specifically train in it.
Think about it people. This is the BIG secret of martial arts. A short list
of elegant instructions that only work for those that work them.
-B
Topo Gigio
"Justin" <n...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:dpc5uh$l9o$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
> Some arts (not necessarily TMAs) train in movement against
> multiple opponents. Being familiar with what it feels like when three
> people are trying to get you is important.
>
> Justin
>
We at times put on our safety equipment and play three on one.
Fraser Johnston
"Topo Gigio" <andrew...@1asealsystems.co.uk> wrote in message
news:NSnuf.5475$tJ1.305@trndny01...
We play 5 on 5 at BJJ. If you tap you're out. It can end up 5 on 1. Never
a good thing.
Fraser
GreenDistantStar
> SPORTfighter <billam...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> : I sparred aikido guys more times than I can recall. Dont assume.
>
> Fair enough and I respect you for it and apologize. However if I were
> given the choice of competency given the real-world situations which occur
> here where I live (urban Washington DC), BJJ would not be high on my list.
<Best Stewie Griffin voice>....Been to Rio de Janiero recently have you,
Justin.... hmmm? Have, er, the faintest clue what, ah.. circumstances
spawned Brazilian Jiu Jitsu? Nope? ...........maybe...........read some
books about it......you know....there's plenty out there....good
bookstores.......even the internet........and tapes....someone will have
some tapes...............
> Please also note that my comment on Aikido is not meant to set up a
> this-versus-that situation.
Understood.
> I would prefer an art (not BJJ nor Aikido in fact) which emphasized quick
> strikes and lots of movement.
Are you huge and really strong? If not, such an art may not serve you well.
> : Which arts spar vs three people?
>
> When I trained in Aikido we sparred versus three and five, both with
> weapons and without. Got my ass kicked mostly but I learned to move.
All due respect friend, what you 'learned' will get you maimed or killed.
The only 'movement' you want against five armed guys is shoe-jitsu or some
fancy spec-ops armament that blows them all to confetti in an instant.
> When I trained in karate we trained versus three.
And as every WWF Royal Rumble definitively shows, if your opponents are
compliant, you can fight twenty.
For the very most part, karate demonstrates defences against blows only
karateka would be foolish enough to throw.
No, I take that back.....and WT chain punchers like Xiaou. That would be
funny. Chain punching vs karate blows. Was there any WT vs Karate in early
UFC?...like unrecorded prelims?
I'd pay good money to see that. You got Xiaou's email address?
GDS
Topo Gigio
The reason that was not proper trolling is because it is true.
Topo Gigio
"Fraser Johnston" <fra...@jcis.com.au> wrote in message
news:41uhq0F...@individual.net...
What do you call it an orgy? Do you form alliances like on survivor?
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
<GreenNOSPAM...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>"Justin" <n...@spam.com> wrote in message
>news:dpd1d3$2b4$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
>> SPORTfighter <billam...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> : I sparred aikido guys more times than I can recall. Dont assume.
>>
>> Fair enough and I respect you for it and apologize. However if I were
>> given the choice of competency given the real-world situations which occur
>> here where I live (urban Washington DC), BJJ would not be high on my list.
>
><Best Stewie Griffin voice>....Been to Rio de Janiero recently have you,
>Justin.... hmmm? Have, er, the faintest clue what, ah.. circumstances
>spawned Brazilian Jiu Jitsu? Nope? ...........maybe...........read some
>books about it......you know....there's plenty out there....good
>bookstores.......even the internet........and tapes....someone will have
>some tapes...............
>
>> Please also note that my comment on Aikido is not meant to set up a
>> this-versus-that situation.
>
>Understood.
>
>> I would prefer an art (not BJJ nor Aikido in fact) which emphasized quick
>> strikes and lots of movement.
>
>Are you huge and really strong? If not, such an art may not serve you well.
Quick strikes and lots of movement. Bowling as a martial art? :-)
>> : Which arts spar vs three people?
>>
>> When I trained in Aikido we sparred versus three and five, both with
>> weapons and without. Got my ass kicked mostly but I learned to move.
>
>All due respect friend, what you 'learned' will get you maimed or killed.
>The only 'movement' you want against five armed guys is shoe-jitsu or some
>fancy spec-ops armament that blows them all to confetti in an instant.
What I don't understand is how 'Aikido' which has no 'kicks' did any
ass-kicking?
But kidding aside, when you look at one of the 'best' filmed examples of a
single aikidoka handling three opponents at a time, a young, fit Stevie
Seagal in 'Above the Law', it looks like this kind of thing is really
possible. But watch that footage again and focus on his 'opponents' instead
of Mr Seagal. What you realize is that all of these guys look like bumbling
cream-puffs and not very good at attacking their Sensei. They all come in
at him in the high-line and none of them are trying to hurt him or gang up
on him, or coordinate their attacks. They are literally running right up to
him and performing as cannon fodder. It's well-known that part of Aikido is
the role of Uke as a 'partner' and how they work with Tori to help
everyone. IOW, they are literally brain-washed to give this kind of
performance. The only kinds of three man attackers that can allow an
Aikidoka to do this kind of performance are those that have a high skill
in....guess what? Aikido moving, rolling, falling and soforth. Get three
gang members from Folsom prison even of the same size and weight as these
aikidoists and offer them a parole if they can rip Mr Seagal a new way to
run like a girl and see if you get the same result.
I'm not sure how you were able to do three attackers with 'weapons', unless
they were giving you the end of their jo and letting you lead them around,
or something, but this is even more ridiculous.
>
>> When I trained in karate we trained versus three.
>
>And as every WWF Royal Rumble definitively shows, if your opponents are
>compliant, you can fight twenty.
Well note he said 'trained' versus three, but doesn't say trained what.
Maybe there were three guys running up to him and grabbing his wrist one at
a time or something. Or maybe they were three Kyokushinkai black belts.
Gotta give the benefit of the doubt here, eh?
>For the very most part, karate demonstrates defences against blows only
>karateka would be foolish enough to throw.
>
>No, I take that back.....and WT chain punchers like Xiaou. That would be
>funny. Chain punching vs karate blows. Was there any WT vs Karate in early
>UFC?...like unrecorded prelims?
>
>I'd pay good money to see that. You got Xiaou's email address?
>
>GDS
I think you are being overly optimistic GDS...those films are now stored in
the NSA archives only to be opened in 2059.... <g>
-B
Fraser Johnston
> What do you call it an orgy?
> Do you form alliances like on survivor?
Yep. It's a team battle. We also train with 10 guys and everyone on
everyone and last man standing wins. Alliances are important. The key is
to always team up with someone you can beat later on. 2 white belts will
always tap a blue belt. Or purple belt. Or even brown belt. Unless you are
playing really really nasty.
Fraser
Fraser Johnston
"Badger_s" <Badg...@south.com> wrote in message
news:u79kr1hai92mhn0mp...@4ax.com...
We did 3 on 1 Randori at JJJ. And no matter how hard we tried it was always
the attackers job to lose. I guess because the reality is that if 2 or more
guys really attack you, you end up getting nailed. At the time I thought I
was fighting off serveral guys at once. I learnt some neat tricks like
dropping an attacker right in the path of the next one but we did it on a
nice padded open mat. In the street it would be a lot harded to pull off.
Personally I think bashing someone with a chair/poolcue/broken bottle is a
much better strategy.
Fraser
GreenDistantStar
> We at times put on our safety equipment and play three on one.
Is this a Fruedian slip or what??!!!
GDS
GreenDistantStar
"Bag-eating Bonobo" <cate...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1136172997.9...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> SPORTfighter wrote:
>> There are a ton of sweet martial arts out there that completely and
>> utterly don't work.
>
>
> carl
Now, now, Carl...you know you don't mean that.
I recommend an hour or two of concerted suplex drills....that should do it.
GDS
Bag-eating Bonobo
> > wrestling.
> >
> > carl
>
> Now, now, Carl...you know you don't mean that.
>
> I recommend an hour or two of concerted suplex drills....that should do it.
>
> GDS
OBVIOUSLY, drilling the same thing over and over again simply won't
pass the real world test. nor will regular exercise and sparring.
jeez. what, are you some kind of commie?
or worse, a TRADITIONAL MARTIAL-ARTIST?????
you *might* go to hell. if you're lucky.
carl
GreenDistantStar
Justin, it's your call what art you think is completely useless.
But your comments clearly indicate you know virtually nothing about Bjj, so
you won't mind if I call you on that, will you?
What you learned in karate and aikido classes about defeating multiple,
armed opponents is, essentially, a large, steaming pile of feces, the
effluvia of the martial arts world, the diarroeah of self-defence, the
imagined nonsense of tma wannabees and the lifeblood of McDojos.
I wouldn't even send your mother to a karate class, despite the fact she
still owes $$ me for that lame bj last week...
Sincerely
GDS
chaos...@gmail.com
GreenDistantStar írta:
> No, I take that back.....and WT chain punchers like Xiaou. That would be
> funny. Chain punching vs karate blows. Was there any WT vs Karate in early
> UFC?...like unrecorded prelims?
I saw a Kyokushinkai vs. Wing Chun fight video once. It was pretty
funny.
Laszlo
GreenDistantStar
> On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 04:42:11 GMT, "GreenDistantStar"
> <GreenNOSPAM...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"si" <a...@a.com> wrote in message
>>news:Gvmuf.10397$W4....@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
>>
>>> Well, I assume we are talkin g about what works in a real situation.
>>>
>>> I would like to hear Gi's real situation.
>>
>>This is like asking a pro basketballer whether he's played any 'real life'
>>basketball, you know, down at the projects with homey and the gang.
>>
>>That's the biz, not any of that NBL 'sports' stuff.
>>
>>GDS
>
> <spew> Thanks man. LOL.
>
> You know this 'splaining' MMA, BJJ, hard training, aliveness and soforth
> has really gotten old. (but it's still phun).
>
> We should have just completely kept it all secret and not filled in
> anybody
> about the details, the means and the benefits.
>
> After all, why do that to one's prospective 'opponents'?
>
> You simply walk in pwn all the TMAers and newbs and don't explain a thing,
> collect your bet money and leave. They end up thnking it's magic or
> sumpthin', heh.
You can still get to do this though. I had some fun during my short break
doing some 'backyard wrestling' with a few guys I met.
I'd almost forgotten how easy it is to arm-bar, triangle and generally fuck
up someone who is clueless.
> But No-o-o-o.... <g>
<G>
> Remember...
>
> It's what the neijia guys did, going to a listserver and making everything
> cryptic and 'hidden' and lost in verbiage.
>
> Google neijia:
>
> "The Neijia mailing list is a closed, private list where the essential
> criteria for being on the list are that discussions are primarily focused
> on concrete ..."
>
> Yeah, it's focussed on concrete alright.
>
> It's what the Wing Chun guys did only they went to the biggest extreme
> making entry into -their listserver by invitation only.
>
> Google: wing chun listserver:
>
> "It is a private, closed listserver comprised of Wing Chun practitioners,
> new and experienced, young and old, male and female, from all different
> branches of "
>
> Yep it's a bunch of branches all right. ;-)
>
> What's so funny is that all of the stuff they have isn't worth a pack of
> gum, it turns out. Bwahahahahaha...
Amen, brother....
> BJJ, MMA is by contrast, completely out in the open, yet completely
> unobtainable by any of them if they don't specifically train in it.
>
> Think about it people. This is the BIG secret of martial arts. A short
> list
> of elegant instructions that only work for those that work them.
And the irony is, it only remains a secret to those who don't want to know
what it is.
Alas, there is so much to lose for the Xiaous of this world....so many myths
held near and dear.
GDS
Justin'
: <Best Stewie Griffin voice>....Been to Rio de Janiero recently have you,
: Justin.... hmmm? Have, er, the faintest clue what, ah.. circumstances
: spawned Brazilian Jiu Jitsu? Nope? ...........maybe...........read some
: books about it......you know....there's plenty out there....good
: bookstores.......even the internet........and tapes....someone will have
: some tapes...............
No but you seem to be missing the point. The question was to describe
which art I find the most useless. Since the question is relative I based
my answer upon the situations I am likely to find myself in and my
admittedly limited knowledge. I never intended so say that one thing
worked, I just wanted to point out what doesn't work (according to what I
know). But this is exactly what the question was asking.
Gi voted for Aikido whereas I know people who have defended themselves
against multiple attackers on the street using it. Is Gi wrong? He just
went with what he knows.
If I'm wrong about BJJ that's fine, call me on it and tell me what I'm
missing. My take on BJJ is that it's a fantastic one-on-one no-weapons
form of combat. My assumption (yes!) is that in most of the situations I
might find myself in is that it would not be very useful.
Justin
Justin
: But your comments clearly indicate you know virtually nothing about Bjj, so
: you won't mind if I call you on that, will you?
Not at all, please correct me. Please tell me what I don't know about BJJ
which makes it useful for multiple-attacker and/or weapons work.
: What you learned in karate and aikido classes about defeating multiple,
: armed opponents is, essentially, a large, steaming pile of feces, the
: effluvia of the martial arts world, the diarroeah of self-defence, the
: imagined nonsense of tma wannabees and the lifeblood of McDojos.
Like I said, I learned to move and get my ass kicked. Where I trained the
point of the attackee was to try to get the hell out of the way for as
long as possible and die gracefully. I'm not sure that this is crap, it
seems pretty accurate to me.
All the best,
Justin
Rabid Weasel
>
> "Justin" <n...@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:dpd1d3$2b4$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
>> SPORTfighter <billam...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> : I sparred aikido guys more times than I can recall. Dont assume.
>>
>> Fair enough and I respect you for it and apologize. However if I were
>> given the choice of competency given the real-world situations which occur
>> here where I live (urban Washington DC), BJJ would not be high on my list.
>
> <Best Stewie Griffin voice>....Been to Rio de Janiero recently have you,
> Justin.... hmmm? Have, er, the faintest clue what, ah.. circumstances
> spawned Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?
Yeah, Ueshiba was supposed to be a Bad Man (tm) too. I've heard it
referred to as the "Founder's Problem."
Peace favor your sword (IH),
Kirk
Chas
>>....Have, er, the faintest clue what, ah.. circumstances
>> spawned Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?
> Yeah, Ueshiba was supposed to be a Bad Man (tm) too. I've heard it
> referred to as the "Founder's Problem."
It's ubiquitous.
It's why they name the art after the guy that set an example- they don't
come along very often. You can't mimic the circumstances that forged the
Founder- it's not post-Meiji Japan, or Rio in the early twentieth century,
or Djakarta/Singapore/Hong Kong,.....
The most interesting thing about Brazilian jujitsu is that it's predicated
on that hispanic code duello thingie and done unarmed. I don't know of too
many unarmed martial systems that specialize in quite that way. In it's own
way, it's as formalized as english boxing.
Chas
GreenDistantStar
> GreenDistantStar <GreenNOSPAM...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
> : But your comments clearly indicate you know virtually nothing about Bjj,
> so
> : you won't mind if I call you on that, will you?
>
> Not at all, please correct me.
That's what I'm here for :~)
Please tell me what I don't know about BJJ
> which makes it useful for multiple-attacker and/or weapons work.
The basis of Bjj was and is self defense, and the art is replete with
weapons defences, and most of these are desperate, last-option techniques
anyway. Bjj does not claim to be effective against multiple attackers, and
its founders rightly state that learning such defences is mostly useless. So
looking for a ma that gives you such defences is pretty much a lost cause.
The arts that *do* claim to teach multiple attack defences can't proffer any
substantial evidence that their techniques work. That their proponents have
been systematically and comprehensively trounced on one-on-one,
no-holds-barred fights is evidence enough that in a multiple situation they
are equally useless. If you can't beat A, how will you beat A and his
friends B, C & D? Pretty simple, isn't it?
> : What you learned in karate and aikido classes about defeating multiple,
> : armed opponents is, essentially, a large, steaming pile of feces, the
> : effluvia of the martial arts world, the diarroeah of self-defence, the
> : imagined nonsense of tma wannabees and the lifeblood of McDojos.
>
> Like I said, I learned to move and get my ass kicked.
Well, if you want to learn an art that will get you your ass kicked......
Where I trained the
> point of the attackee was to try to get the hell out of the way for as
> long as possible and die gracefully. I'm not sure that this is crap, it
> seems pretty accurate to me.
Dying gracefully has never been much of an option, has it?
Get freakin' fit, run away and get them to chase after you. When they get
too exhausted to continue, go back and kick ass.
Other than this, blades, clubs, sprays, animals with sharp teeth and guns
are your only hope.
GDS
Chas
> The basis of Bjj was and is self defense, and the art is replete with
> weapons defences, and most of these are desperate, last-option techniques
> anyway.
The 'basis' for any art can said to be the same.
The signal difference is that bjj then goes on to presume that not only no
weapons are available, but the range of acceptable techniques/targets is so
restricted that their entire posture and choices of applications changes to
an entirely unrealistic model.
> Bjj does not claim to be effective against multiple attackers, and its
> founders rightly state that learning such defences is mostly useless.
Kind of an idiot assumption when contrasted with the history of the whole
human race. Gangs have always been an early option when possible- like
weapons.
> So looking for a ma that gives you such defences is pretty much a lost
> cause. The arts that *do* claim to teach multiple attack defences can't
> proffer any substantial evidence that their techniques work.
Horseshit-
the disconnect is that you want to set the standard of evidence at criminal
defense requirements- and the direct demonstration of technique presupposes
a criminal act- or at least one you'll have to defend in court.
People don't like war stories that end with 'and then I blew her through the
back of the hootch'.
> That their proponents have been systematically and comprehensively
> trounced on one-on-one, no-holds-barred fights is evidence enough that in
> a multiple situation they are equally useless. If you can't beat A, how
> will you beat A and his friends B, C & D? Pretty simple, isn't it?
Except, they're not 'no-holds-barred'.
They're 'lots-of-holds-barred'.
They wear armor, disallow certain targets and techniques, put a 'referee'
into the 'ring', have signals to change the fight, rest periods,......
> Get freakin' fit, run away and get them to chase after you. When they get
> too exhausted to continue, go back and kick ass.
Ahhh; the 'traditional' method.
On the other hand; 'We don't train to fight harder. We train to fight
easier.'.
Isn't that the whole message of 'bjj'?
'We don't train to fight harder; we train to fight schmarder' ( you'd have
to hear the original Dutch Indo accent to get the full flavor)
> Other than this, blades, clubs, sprays, animals with sharp teeth and guns
> are your only hope.
Nah; you can trick the stupid ones into thinking you're a pushover and poke
them in the eye.
--
Chas
http://warriorschest.com/pals.htm (saps & conditioning tools)
http://www.kuntaosilat.com
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
Dammit, stop that. You old schmarty pants you. Another gem. LOL.
One thing that I just want to interject is that with bjj, you have a range
of fighting that is not well-known to the casual user, and they are able to
work a very strong functionality and with robust fighting reflexes and all
that, basically just like wrestling does, only with added features. It's
really this high level of fighting fitness that is the key, and it's why a
bjj guy who goes into MMA is such a force to be reckoned with in the
'street'.
They are developing the big engine within a smaller body if you will,
because of the built-in progressive resistance, while not really having to
hurt themselves too much. I think wrestlers epitomize this also, collegiate
level and soforth. They are just insanely fit and strong and it's directly
connected with their 'rolling' as it were and not a weight training add on,
though they do that too.
But otherwise you're certainly correct, imo.
-B
si
"GreenDistantStar" <GreenNOSPAM...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:Dgnuf.167226$V7....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Sorry for asking for any 'real' experience. Didn't realise that was a crime
around here...
Didn't realise it would upset you so much. I never mentioned sport at all.
Just wondering if Gi had done anything in a real situation. Is that so hard
a question?
Chas
> One thing that I just want to interject is that with bjj, you have a range
> of fighting that is not well-known to the casual user, and they are able
> to
> work a very strong functionality and with robust fighting reflexes and all
> that, basically just like wrestling does, only with added features. It's
> really this high level of fighting fitness that is the key, and it's why a
> bjj guy who goes into MMA is such a force to be reckoned with in the
> 'street'.
Sure- 'wrestlers' have always done well 'in the street'. In the past forty
years or so, judo players, and jujitsu players, trained in YMCA's and the
military, have done well- I've worked with a lot of them, and fought a lot
of them.
The change is not on the street, it's in the entertainment industry.
Of course 'bjj' works- the mother art already worked, and the refinements of
style are just wonderful.
But there was no ephiphany of application, there was a change in *intent*
for the art.
It's like the difference between 'combat shooting' and 'pistol dueling'.
The only commonality is that you're still dead at the end of it (or not),
and the instruments are similar, and the very basic technic of the event is
the same- the only thing that changes is the regulation/custom.
And that's enough to change everything about it.
Chas
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
Okay, uh, I'll have to dwell on this, because you've kind of gone over my
head I think, especially with the last part and the last sentence...
-B
Wayne Dobson
*Sound of wind whistling and Tumbleweed rolling by*
--
Wayne
"Aka Dobbie the House Elf."
Badger North
>I see you haven't learned any true lessons about the real martial arts?
What makes you think he hasn't?
Badger Jones
www.youngforest.ca
"Never, under ANY circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night."
Badger North
>BJJ, MMA is by contrast, completely out in the open, yet completely
>unobtainable by any of them if they don't specifically train in it.
Guro I says something similar in the BBC Way of the Warrior series
Wayne Dobson
>
> "Justin" <n...@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:dpbv40$iev$2...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
> > SPORTfighter <billam...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > : There are a ton of sweet martial arts out there that completely and
> > : utterly don't work.
> > : So there's alot to choose from in deciding your favorite.
> > ...
> > : Now out of curiosity whats your favorite art that is completely
> > : bullshit?
> >
> > I'll go with BJJ. Though it's shown its effectiveness in one-on-one
> > no-weapons restrictive-rules fighting, it is essentially useless if a
> > couple of people come at you on the street, bottles-in-hand, wishing to
> > knock you a good one about the skull.
> >
> > Justin
>
> Justin, it's your call what art you think is completely useless.
>
> But your comments clearly indicate you know virtually nothing about Bjj,
so
> you won't mind if I call you on that, will you?
>
> What you learned in karate and aikido classes about defeating multiple,
> armed opponents is, essentially, a large, steaming pile of feces, the
> effluvia of the martial arts world, the diarroeah of self-defence, the
> imagined nonsense of tma wannabees and the lifeblood of McDojos.
It can and does happen. You are out of touch with reality.
Wayne Dobson
>
> You know this 'splaining' MMA, BJJ, hard training, aliveness and soforth
> has really gotten old. (but it's still phun).
That sounds like a figment of your imagination, to me. The most alot of you
have succeeding in doing is repeating the same repititious mantra about full
contact and aliveness. You have said that you can't tell if a technique
works, without full contact, but you cannot explain why.
Then you keep spouting this dogma about aliveness being the answer to
everything, but you've also never explained how or why, to my recollection.
The only really lucid support of aliveness I can think of is a single post
from Grap. I don't recall anything else cogent from anyone else, on this
matter, in the years that I have been reading posts here.
> We should have just completely kept it all secret and not filled in
anybody
> about the details, the means and the benefits.
Hahaha...
Wayne Dobson
news:1136167607.7...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> I see you haven't learned any true lessons about the real martial arts?
> their styles.
I don't know about the true lesson of martial arts being about courtesy,
humility and all that. I thought it was about hurting people and not
getting hurt. It's just a tool. How you use it, determines how productive
it is for you.
It's really about fighting. Who or what you fight, is another question.
Certainly, to get really good at it, you have to fight such things as
boredom, indiscipline, fear, other and sundry character flaws. Once you're
done fighting yourself, you don't much feel like fighting others. You let
them fight their own demons.
Gichoke has spent a long time studying the ancient art of being an arrogant
prick. So please do not disrespect his training. He has dedicated all of
his life to it, even subjecting himself to abuse, as a child, in order to
cultivate the full expression of his art, as an adult. I think that you
should keep that in mind, when addressing him.
> And what is it with this fascination you have with the
> male sphincter anyway?
That's another thing.
> Maybe you should take up sewing instead of martial arts.
He's had lots of practise, as he's regularly had to sew up his own
schincter.
LUBERATOR
SPORTfighter wrote:
> Plus I just plain like the word AI-KI-DO ...sounds cool.
I like it too. It just sounds crap though ...sounds not cool.
I like it for reasons of perversity.
GreenDistantStar
"Wayne Dobson" <nos...@noaddress.com> wrote in message
news:qWzuf.83013$vl2....@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
Then go ahead, make my day...show me or tell me if you can, how you defeat
five armed assailants.
GDS
GreenDistantStar
Don't bother. This is just Chas using words with his own definitions.
GDS
kanjian
it depends on who use it , how to use it ,where to use it and whom you
use it to.
si
Yep....Gi has no real experience, though plenty of real ring experience.
And thats all the real Gi ever needs to know....according to Gi.
GreenDistantStar
While Gi's out fucking both your mothers, how about you provide a definition
of 'real'.
Don't forget to mention the wooden dummy. <snork>
GDS
SPORTfighter
weapons and without. Got my ass kicked mostly but I learned to move.
When I trained in karate we trained versus three.
Justin
No you didnt.
Gi
SPORTfighter
always
the attackers job to lose.
That aint real randori.
Its play acting.
Gi
SPORTfighter
which art I find the most useless. Since the question is relative I
based
my answer upon the situations I am likely to find myself in and my
admittedly limited knowledge. I never intended so say that one thing
worked, I just wanted to point out what doesn't work (according to what
I
know). But this is exactly what the question was asking.
Gi voted for Aikido whereas I know people who have defended themselves
against multiple attackers on the street using it. Is Gi wrong? He
just
went with what he knows. "
Which is the truth.
Which is that BJJ is a combat sport.
Combat sports develop attributes.
ATTRIBUTES trump technique in multible opponant scenerios.
Gi
SPORTfighter
> The basis of Bjj was and is self defense, and the art is replete with
> weapons defences, and most of these are desperate, last-option techniques
> anyway.
The 'basis' for any art can said to be the same.
The signal difference is that bjj then goes on to presume that not only
no
weapons are available, but the range of acceptable techniques/targets
is so
restricted that their entire posture and choices of applications
changes to
an entirely unrealistic model."
BJJ guys have a realistic understanding of violence.Which is why the
chose BJJ.
They tend to understand that in the real wotrld one can get ganged up
on, blindsided or even shot.
Its the karate and aikido types that laughably show knife and gang
defenses.
Cause they dont know shit about real fighting.
Gi
SPORTfighter
the
drill bit in one hand and a screw driver in the other. He did a text
book
kote gasji and then held him there until the police came.
Please post your real life situation now and how BJJ helped you in it"
I dont train in BJJ.
Gi
SPORTfighter
it depends on who use it , how to use it ,where to use it and whom you
use it to. "
Ok.So even with aikido you can best an 8 year old mongoloid 8 times in
10.
Good point.
Gi
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
wrote:
>ATTRIBUTES trump technique in multible opponant scenerios.
I am -so- stealing this line of yours...
-B
ATTRIBUTES trump technique in multible opponant scenerios - Gichoke.
si
Why don't you ask Gi....he is the one that came up with the question about a
'real' situation.
si
"SPORTfighter" <billam...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1136352711.7...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Gi, don't be so hard on yourself. You are not a mongolid....just a very
'special' little person.
Fraser Johnston
> On 3 Jan 2006 21:23:03 -0800, "SPORTfighter" <billam...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>ATTRIBUTES trump technique in multible opponant scenerios.
>
> I am -so- stealing this line of yours...
He's right too. I got hit in the head today and it really doesn't bother
me. 2 years ago I would of stopped for a break. Sport arts give you a
toughness, strength and endurance that pays of bigtime in a real scenario.
Fraser
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
wrote:
Plus, the opponents seem to be moving in slow-motion at times, you have a
faster eye, as though you're now used to sub-dividing time into smaller
slices, anticipating, seeing the moves ahead of time. The chess match on
the mat makes for a chess match in other ranges that opens up to your
perception.
-B
>ATTRIBUTES trump technique in multible opponant scenerios-Gichoke
Wayne Dobson
> wrote:
>
> >ATTRIBUTES trump technique in multible opponant scenerios.
>
> I am -so- stealing this line of yours...
(Attributes * Techniques ) * (Everything else I can't be bothered to think
of) = Fighting Proficiency.
Therefore it is obvious that (Attributes * Zero Technique) affords greater
Fighting Proficiency than (Techniques * Zero Attributes). Naturally.
You can steal that, also.
Rabid Weasel
> I got hit in the head today
This explains much.
;-)
Peace favor your sword (IH),
Kirk
Justin
: Which is that BJJ is a combat sport.
: Combat sports develop attributes.
: ATTRIBUTES trump technique in multible opponant scenerios.
Prove it.
Justin
Fraser Johnston
"Rabid Weasel" <lawson@NO8753SPAM+dayton.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.01.04.13.48.56.245390@NO8753SPAM+dayton.net...
> On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 19:49:05 +0800, Fraser Johnston wrote:
>
>> I got hit in the head today
>
> This explains much.
Nah. The thing that explains a lot is that I got dropped on my head as a
kid. 97 times.
Fraser
Topo Gigio
>
> "Justin" <n...@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:dpbv40$iev$2...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
>> SPORTfighter <billam...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> : There are a ton of sweet martial arts out there that completely and
>> : utterly don't work.
>> : So there's alot to choose from in deciding your favorite.
>> ...
>> : Now out of curiosity whats your favorite art that is completely
>> : bullshit?
>>
>> I'll go with BJJ. Though it's shown its effectiveness in one-on-one
>> no-weapons restrictive-rules fighting, it is essentially useless if a
>> couple of people come at you on the street, bottles-in-hand, wishing to
>> knock you a good one about the skull.
>>
>> Justin
>
> Justin, it's your call what art you think is completely useless.
>
> But your comments clearly indicate you know virtually nothing about Bjj,
> so you won't mind if I call you on that, will you?
>
> What you learned in karate and aikido classes about defeating multiple,
> armed opponents is, essentially, a large, steaming pile of feces, the
> effluvia of the martial arts world, the diarroeah of self-defence, the
> imagined nonsense of tma wannabees and the lifeblood of McDojos.
>
> still owes $$ me for that lame bj last week...
>
> Sincerely
>
> GDS
You gave a women a lame blow job? That was not a women, wink wink, nudge
nudge, say no more, say no more.
Aristeia
>
> Didn't realise it would upset you so much. I never mentioned sport at
> all.
> Just wondering if Gi had done anything in a real situation. Is that so
> hard
> a question?
>
Just to interject a point of order. You didn't describe a real situation
you'd been in, but rather, one your "mate" Andy has. Which means to match
you all Gi needs to do is come up with a situation one of his grappling
mates has been in. I wonder if such a thing exists...(duh)
SPORTfighter
Aristeia
> There are a ton of sweet martial arts out there that completely and
> utterly don't work.
> So there's alot to choose from in deciding your favorite.
> And not just cause'a the uniforms.
> Hakama's really do work for me,though.They give the illusion of grace
> to all but the clumsiest rich middle aged white dudes.
> I also like Aikido for other more crucial reasons.
> NO HORSE STANCE.That just looks so gay.In fact all kata is just about
> the gayest thing a hetero sexual man can do.Aside from actually taking
> it in the ass, of course.
> Plus I just plain like the word AI-KI-DO ...sounds cool.
> bullshit?
I always knew you had a soft spot for Aikido.
I don't want to jump into the BJJ vs Aikido debate that has been discussed
here ad naseum before. But let me just make this point out of interest. As
an Aikidoka and BJJer - I've found doing BJJ makes my Aikido much better. I
guess an aspect of that is the delivery system people talk about. But more
it's just that knowing that a clinch or fall to the ground is now a *good*
thing from my perspective, it takes away that slight hesitation in
performing technique that makes you hold back a little for fear of ma ai
collapsing past where your comfortable. In otherwords I can execute my
plan A with full commitment because I know my plan B is even better for me.
And I concur that Caporeia is just damn cool.
Justin
: MAKE ME!
See here's the problem. MMAers and BJJers will sit here and say that
their art works because it's "tested". I have no doubt that you (Gi) are
an excellent fighter and that you know it because you "test it". I quite
honestly respect you for it.
In addition, MMAers and BJJers will say that other arts which do not put
themselves to "the test" don't have a leg to stand on for that reason.
In summary you argue that claims require testing and without testing those
claims are worthless. I'll accept that logic.
But then here is what you write:
: : Which is that BJJ is a combat sport.
: : Combat sports develop attributes.
: : ATTRIBUTES trump technique in multible opponant scenerios.
Do you have evidence that line 3 follows from line 2? Do you have a test
to back up your claim?
Justin
Mark Goldberg
>
> You have just described the typical BJJ type.
>
>
Listen... you should go back to wiggling your mouse ears on the Ed
Sullivan show.... "ohhh.... eiddddeeeeee" with that handle of yours.
And these idiocies.
I remember watching the first time some of the bjj'ers were getting
beat, and I can't help but feeling just how many showed unbelievable
grit, no quit, none and that is really when it became evident just how
tough the average bjj black belt was.
Their winning ways, were splendid.... their character when they lost,
was frankly, unbelievable.
It was something out of the movies, and showed just how deep their
fighting spirit went.
Mark
Topo Gigio
"Mark Goldberg" <msgol...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:bvXuf.25427$SH2....@fe12.lga...
> Topo Gigio wrote:
>
>>
>> You have just described the typical BJJ type.
> Listen... you should go back to wiggling your mouse ears on the Ed
> Sullivan show.... "ohhh.... eiddddeeeeee" with that handle of yours.
>
> Mark
You obviously are not familiar with my earlier work.
http://earlcamembert.250free.com/Gigio.rm
LUBERATOR
SPORTfighter wrote:
> ATTRIBUTES trump technique in multible opponant scenerios.
> Gi
Attributes trump technique full stop. How do you maximise the force of
your punch?
Topo Gigio
"LUBERATOR" <badg...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1136417153.4...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I have "Big Louie" from Jersey City throw it.
Fraser Johnston
I know a bunch of BJJer bouncers who regularly beat the hell out of groups
of people.
Fraser
felix isp iinet
: There are a ton of sweet martial arts out there that completely and
: utterly don't work.
: So there's alot to choose from in deciding your favorite.
: I'm gonna go with Aikido.
: And not just cause'a the uniforms.
: Hakama's really do work for me,though.They give the illusion of grace
: to all but the clumsiest rich middle aged white dudes.
: I also like Aikido for other more crucial reasons.
: NO HORSE STANCE.That just looks so gay.In fact all kata is just about
: the gayest thing a hetero sexual man can do.Aside from actually taking
: it in the ass, of course.
: Plus I just plain like the word AI-KI-DO ...sounds cool.
: Now out of curiosity whats your favorite art that is completely
: bullshit?
: Gi
GunKata
heh heh heh.
--
Today is Setting Orange, the 5th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3172
Celebrate Mungday
Felixmeister - Touched by his Noodly Appendage
"I'm a f---ing starship I'm allowed to cheat"
"Vorlon t'vut'na chog!"
Justin
: I know a bunch of BJJer bouncers who regularly beat the hell out of groups
: of people.
Ah, fair enough! I'm not unreasonable, I'm just asking for evidence. Any
training outside of BJJ or only BJJ? Groups going at them all at once?
Justin
Fraser Johnston
Nearly all BJJers tend to box or kickbox as well. Groups coming at them all
at once.
Fraser