Hardest Art
Kelly
Dan Winsor
> Similarly what is the hardest, most disciplined art to learn?
That Wudan Kung Fu. I've been trying to fly for years and just haven't
gotten it down yet.
--
Dan Winsor
Soy un poco loco en el coco.
hcannon18
"Dan Winsor" <daniel.nospam...@sun.smapmenot.com> wrote in
message news:40A9F85A...@sun.smapmenot.com...
> Kelly wrote:
> > Similarly what is the hardest, most disciplined art to learn?
>
> That Wudan Kung Fu. I've been trying to fly for years and just haven't
> gotten it down yet.
>
Robert Low
El Queso <the_chees...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>LOL!!!! That must be why there are more blackbelts in TKD than all other
>arts combined.
There are probably also more people taking TKD than all other
arts combined. (Which isn't inconsistent with it being an art
in which a black belt can be gained pretty fast, depending on the
school/association/etc.)
--
Rob. http://www.mis.coventry.ac.uk/~mtx014/
Shuurai
Realist painting.
Kirk Lawson
>
> > Similarly what is the hardest, most disciplined art to learn?
>
> Realist painting.
Tromp l’oeil?
Peace favor your sword (IH)
--
"In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or
knowledge of their use."
-Achille Marozzo, 1536
--
"...it's the nature of the media and the participants. A herd of martial
artists gets together and a fight breaks out; quelle surprise."
-Chas Speaking of rec.martial-arts
hcannon18
"Kelly" <ke...@stewart1982.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:13bcf450.04051...@posting.google.com...
> Similarly what is the hardest, most disciplined art to learn?
Soldier
Don Wagner
>Similarly what is the hardest, most disciplined art to learn?
Parenting.
--Don--
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Fraser Johnston
"Don Wagner" <dawa...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:40aa1e52...@news-server.optonline.net...
> ke...@stewart1982.freeserve.co.uk (Kelly) wrote:
> >Similarly what is the hardest, most disciplined art to learn?
>
> Parenting.
We have a winner.
Fraser
Chas
> > > Similarly what is the hardest, most disciplined art to learn?
> > Realist painting.
> Tromp l'oeil?
It's actually really easy, it's just boring as hell. It's like
'paint-by-numbers' and is done completely mechanically- that's why
'commercial artists' do it so commonly. It's called 'rendering' by a
draughtsman, tromp l'oeil by artists.
Chas
Badger_South
wrote:
Me, I'm completely mesmerized by the gentleman who used to paint landscapes
on the PBS channel using large paintbrushes and spatulas (god rest his
soul). What a wonderful gentleman and treasure he was.
-B
Kirk Lawson
Nah. I'm fairly sure that I was *easy* to raise. Never gave my parents
any problems, never needed disciplined, always cleaned my room, brushed
my teeth, ate my broccoli, and say "yes sir/ma'am."
At least that's the way *I* remember it.
Don Wagner
After herding godson#2 (5yr) and his 7yr old sister for about 12hrs
this Saturday, I've concluded that a PriceClub sized supply of Nyquil
is needed in order to keep kids properly sedated.
Kirk Lawson
Hey! No fair. You were supposed to be impressed that I remembered the
term not post an informative riposte.
Yer cramp'n my style dood!
<grumble grumble> ...artist types... <grumble grumble>
Vince Poroke
> Similarly what is the hardest, most disciplined art to learn?
Probabally sculpting.
Chas
> Me, I'm completely mesmerized by the gentleman who used to paint
landscapes
> on the PBS channel using large paintbrushes and spatulas (god rest his
> soul). What a wonderful gentleman and treasure he was.
Yeah; it's almost like chemistry- very predictable and consistent.
Chas
Kirk Lawson
>
> "Fraser Johnston" <fra...@jcis.com.au> wrote:
> >We have a winner.
> >
> >Fraser
>
> After herding godson#2 (5yr) and his 7yr old sister for about 12hrs
> this Saturday, I've concluded that a PriceClub sized supply of Nyquil
> is needed in order to keep kids properly sedated.
Back before the FDA started regulating Opiates, etc., it was common for
mothers to give children an over-the-counter "Elixir" to get them to
sleep at night.
Badger_South
<lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote:
>Fraser Johnston wrote:
>>
>> "Don Wagner" <dawa...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:40aa1e52...@news-server.optonline.net...
>> > ke...@stewart1982.freeserve.co.uk (Kelly) wrote:
>> > >Similarly what is the hardest, most disciplined art to learn?
>> >
>> > Parenting.
>>
>> We have a winner.
>
>Nah. I'm fairly sure that I was *easy* to raise. Never gave my parents
>any problems, never needed disciplined, always cleaned my room, brushed
>my teeth, ate my broccoli, and say "yes sir/ma'am."
>
>At least that's the way *I* remember it.
Yes and your parents, hoping for a challenge tell their friends they never
expected to produce a 'professional child' - that they have no idea where
you acquired such culture and breeding, while your dad was telling his
friends he's sure you have english butler genes, suspiciously citing that
trip to England back in the late 70s - he had no idea where you came up
with the desire at age 5 to seat guests wearing tails and a towel over your
arm. ;-p
-B
Chas
> Hey! No fair. You were supposed to be impressed that I remembered the
> term not post an informative riposte.
Ah; it's jargon for me, so kind of expected-
Chas
Chas
> > Similarly what is the hardest, most disciplined art to learn?
> Probabally sculpting.
Working wax, as for bronze sculpture, isn't all that hard, it's the
reductive sculpting in resistant material that gets to be really difficult.
Chas
Don Wagner
>At least that's the way *I* remember it.
"...during my few coherent moments in between psychothropic IV drip
changes and having my bedsores lanced."
;-)
Don Wagner
Zolly Skocic
news:13bcf450.04051...@posting.google.com...
Gemstone cutter.
Zolly
Kirk Lawson
> Yes and your parents, hoping for a challenge tell their friends they never
> expected to produce a 'professional child' - that they have no idea where
> you acquired such culture and breeding, while your dad was telling his
> friends he's sure you have english butler genes, suspiciously citing that
> trip to England back in the late 70s - he had no idea where you came up
> with the desire at age 5 to seat guests wearing tails and a towel over your
> arm. ;-p
> -B
It also helps explain my cheesy psuedo-british accent...
Kirk Lawson
I know what you mean. There's a guy here at work who attempts to use
I.T. jargon and habitually screws it up. It's always good for a laugh
to hear him talk about our SNMP E-Mail Server (for the non-TechnoGeek,
he's confused SMTP, Simple Mail Transfer Protocol, with SNMP, Simple
Network Management Protocol). Kinda like listening to a guy like me
trying to talk Jargon with you and saying some bull about using Pastels
for a tromp l'oeil project or expounding on what percentage Aluminum I
think the Renaissance Masters used in their Bronze sculptures.
It'd be a hoot if it were happening to someone else. :P
Kirk Lawson
I recall reading that Michelangelo's "David" was considered such a
Masterpiece because the marble had a central flaw making it likely to
crack and shatter during the carving process and no other Master would
touch it with a 10 foot pole. Thus, not only was the sculpture itself a
work of brilliance for all the usual artistic reasons, but also because
the medium itself was predisposed to failure and yet he made it succeed.
Karim Rashad
>> Yes and your parents, hoping for a challenge tell their friends they
>> never expected to produce a 'professional child' - that they have no
>> idea where you acquired such culture and breeding, while your dad was
>> telling his friends he's sure you have english butler genes,
>> suspiciously citing that trip to England back in the late 70s - he had
>> no idea where you came up with the desire at age 5 to seat guests
>> wearing tails and a towel over your arm. ;-p
>
>
--
Karim Rashad <remove SPAMFREE: krashad at SPAMorbisFREEuk dot com>
"We shall abolish the orgasm. Our neurologists are at work on it now."
-O'Brien
Kirk Lawson
>
> Kirk Lawson <lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote:
> >At least that's the way *I* remember it.
>
> "...during my few coherent moments in between psychothropic IV drip
> changes and having my bedsores lanced."
> ;-)
You're the Ficus over in the corner, aren't you.
Kirk Lawson
>
> On Tue, 18 May 2004 11:54:39 -0400, Kirk Lawson wrote:
> >> Yes and your parents, hoping for a challenge tell their friends they
> >> never expected to produce a 'professional child' - that they have no
> >> idea where you acquired such culture and breeding, while your dad was
> >> telling his friends he's sure you have english butler genes,
> >> suspiciously citing that trip to England back in the late 70s - he had
> >> no idea where you came up with the desire at age 5 to seat guests
> >> wearing tails and a towel over your arm. ;-p
> >
> > It also helps explain my cheesy psuedo-british accent...
> >
>
> And your bad teeth? ;-)
Among the arts I practice are Bata (Shillelagh) and Classic Pugilism.
What makes you think I have any teeth left?
Karim Rashad
> Among the arts I practice are Bata (Shillelagh) and Classic Pugilism. What
> makes you think I have any teeth left?
Hehe! Joking aside, I always kinda thought you were academically
interested in Classic Pugilism/BKB, and didn't get much chance to actually
do any.
How do you practice? Do you have much of a group or just a few willing
sparring partners? Any hand protection? What is the 'usual' rule set
you'd follow when having a spar? Any interesting conclusions you've drawn
from actual practice that BKB book-learners might not come by?
Dan Winsor
> On Tue, 18 May 2004 11:54:39 -0400, Kirk Lawson wrote:
>>
>>It also helps explain my cheesy psuedo-british accent...
>
> And your bad teeth? ;-)
Kirk was Mike Myers' study for his Austin Powers character.
--
Dan Winsor
Soy un poco loco en el coco.
Grappler240
>on the PBS channel using large paintbrushes and spatulas (god rest his
>soul). What a wonderful gentleman and treasure he was.
That would be Bob Ross. His son paints now. He was an Arkansan and a BadA$%
vietnam soldier in his day. I think he prolly smoked a lot of pot.
Love to watch him paint. They still show the program here in AR.
-g
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
"You can carve it on a bowling pin and cram it,for all I care."
-Gichoke, Jan. 21, 2002
Grappler240
>is needed in order to keep kids properly sedated.
nah....benadryl.
Grappler240
>
>Working wax, as for bronze sculpture, isn't all that hard, it's the
>reductive sculpting in resistant material that gets to be really difficult.
i would have to go with Pappy on this one....I've only done wood block and not
stone and it was hard as a mug...i can only imagine granite.
-grap
Badger_South
<lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote:
>Karim Rashad wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 18 May 2004 11:54:39 -0400, Kirk Lawson wrote:
>> >> Yes and your parents, hoping for a challenge tell their friends they
>> >> never expected to produce a 'professional child' - that they have no
>> >> idea where you acquired such culture and breeding, while your dad was
>> >> telling his friends he's sure you have english butler genes,
>> >> suspiciously citing that trip to England back in the late 70s - he had
>> >> no idea where you came up with the desire at age 5 to seat guests
>> >> wearing tails and a towel over your arm. ;-p
>> >
>> > It also helps explain my cheesy psuedo-british accent...
>> >
>>
>> And your bad teeth? ;-)
>
>Among the arts I practice are Bata (Shillelagh) and Classic Pugilism.
>What makes you think I have any teeth left?
You, sir are a master of the 'classy comeback' which undercuts the
opponent's argument, while adding a pinch of self-deprecation, and neatly
exposes the scrappy underlay beneath the genteel veneer. Kudos.
-B
PS, I amost spelled that gentile veneer.. ;-p
Kirk Lawson
>
> On Tue, 18 May 2004 12:26:29 -0400, Kirk Lawson wrote:
> > Among the arts I practice are Bata (Shillelagh) and Classic Pugilism. What
> > makes you think I have any teeth left?
>
> Hehe! Joking aside, I always kinda thought you were academically
> interested in Classic Pugilism/BKB, and didn't get much chance to actually
> do any.
I get to practice BKB very little, actually. Not near as much as I'd
like. I study it as an addendum to my Shillelagh work.
> How do you practice? Do you have much of a group or just a few willing
> sparring partners? Any hand protection? What is the 'usual' rule set
> you'd follow when having a spar? Any interesting conclusions you've drawn
> from actual practice that BKB book-learners might not come by?
Small group. Three guys including myself. We generally wear headgear
(ack! run away!) with a face shield of some sort and gloves that will
allow grasping for the throws. Usually comparatively light "contact"
(for boxing, at least). No one really gets injured. The rules are
usually along the lines of the Broughton Rules.
The conclusion that I've come to is that weight and size *still* matter,
though maybe not as much as in modern boxing. Probably more like Judo
weight classes and for the same reason. The footwork is way different
then modern boxing but yet the same. It's the same but longer range.
You snipe your punches or use almost bounding entries to close and punch
then retreat. The modern "Hook" pretty much disappears since once
you're close enough to use a hook you've clenched and are trying to
throw or trip, get a Chancery (headlock) or whatever. It makes the Hook
a *very* specialized technique (it does still have a place) instead of a
bread and butter type tech. The use of the forearms as a shield pretty
much disappears too. Your guard is much more extended (even when it's
"close"), and it's easier to "block" punches, particularly ones that
aren't "jab/strait" or "cross." Rounding Blows and Upper Cuts are only
used after some sort of setup. It's safer to not tuck your chin since
your guard is so much more extended and everything has such a longer
range.
Just kinda think of what Boxing would look like mixed with Judo and
you'll have the flavor of it, I think. Monkey arms and short legs would
be a definite advantage for longer reach and better throwing base.
Kirk Lawson
> -B
> PS, I amost spelled that gentile veneer.. ;-p
No way, dude. I'm "cut." ;-)
Adam
grapp...@aol.comnojunk (Grappler240) wrote in
<20040518124320...@mb-m14.aol.com>:
>>Me, I'm completely mesmerized by the gentleman who used to paint
>>landscapes on the PBS channel using large paintbrushes and spatulas
>>(god rest his soul). What a wonderful gentleman and treasure he was.
>
>That would be Bob Ross. His son paints now. He was an Arkansan and a
>BadA$% vietnam soldier in his day. I think he prolly smoked a lot of
>pot.
>
>Love to watch him paint. They still show the program here in AR.
>
>-g
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>- ---------------------------------------------
Grappler240
>you'll have the flavor of it,
anybody shooting doubles and low singles?? any greco stuff from the clinch??
-grap
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Low
Kirk Lawson <lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote:
>Back before the FDA started regulating Opiates, etc., it was common for
>mothers to give children an over-the-counter "Elixir" to get them to
>sleep at night.
My parents remember a few drops of whisky in a teaspoon of
sugar being a standard way to calm down a kid who wouldn't
settle. (My own mother would have no truck with such barbarity.
She simply turned the radio up until she couldn't hear the
crying any more.)
It's not as if it's stopped. I remember reading the
label on a bottle of gripe water not long ago. It
was basically a homeopathic dilution of some
herb...diluted in ethanol :-)
--
Rob. http://www.mis.coventry.ac.uk/~mtx014/
Grappler240
yep.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Low
Kirk Lawson <lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote:
>much disappears too. Your guard is much more extended (even when it's
>"close"), and it's easier to "block" punches, particularly ones that
Looks a lot like a standard karate/TKD guard, doesn't it? Lead
arm quite far out, fists at slightly below chin level?
Karen Nagai
Don Wagner <dawa...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>After herding godson#2 (5yr) and his 7yr old sister for about 12hrs
>this Saturday, I've concluded that a PriceClub sized supply of Nyquil
>is needed in order to keep kids properly sedated.
Children's Tylenol used to contain alcohol...one dose
for baby and one dose for mama.
5 and 7 yr. are tough - mobile, quick, hard to contain,
easy to conceal. But lots of fun.
karen
>--Don--
>The beatings will continue until morale improves.
--
Adam
<20040518141416...@mb-m14.aol.com>:
>>Was that the white guy with the huge 'fro?
>
>yep.
>
Thought so. We used to get high and watch him in college and laugh because
he looked EXACTLY like our off-campus landlord. Guy sure could paint him a
nice one in no time.
Oh wait, you're a cop right? Did I say "get high"? I meant "make
cookies" yeah that's what I meant...
A.
p.S. Levo is the man!
Kirk Lawson
>
> >Just kinda think of what Boxing would look like mixed with Judo and
> >you'll have the flavor of it,
>
> anybody shooting doubles and low singles?? any greco stuff from the clinch??
>
> -grap
No. Not in BKB.
Broughton Rules and going forward make any grips below the belt
illegal. Trips and Sweeps are still legal though.
Kirk Lawson
> My parents remember a few drops of whisky in a teaspoon of
> sugar being a standard way to calm down a kid who wouldn't
> settle. (My own mother would have no truck with such barbarity.
> She simply turned the radio up until she couldn't hear the
> crying any more.)
Yeah, I had a buddy in college who was "soothed" in exactly that
manner. Whisky + Sugar.
> It's not as if it's stopped. I remember reading the
> label on a bottle of gripe water not long ago. It
> was basically a homeopathic dilution of some
> herb...diluted in ethanol :-)
Whee!
Kirk Lawson
>
> Kirk Lawson <lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote:
> >much disappears too. Your guard is much more extended (even when it's
> >"close"), and it's easier to "block" punches, particularly ones that
>
> Looks a lot like a standard karate/TKD guard, doesn't it? Lead
> arm quite far out, fists at slightly below chin level?
That's more of the London Prize Fighting Rules stance.
John L. Sullivan & co.
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/sully.htm
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/ryan-p.htm
The Broughton stance is a bit closer then that. The illustration of
Mendoza and Humphries shows the general stance and two variations.
http://www.sirwilliamhope.org/lsd/resources/mendoza.html
Note that the arm position is still a bit longer range then modern
boxing, which is often almost at the chin (generalization, I know).
Ken does a good exposition on the evolution of boxing stances through
BKB and into modern Boxing.
http://ahfaa.org/boxingstance.htm
Badger North
<lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote:
>Yeah, I had a buddy in college who was "soothed" in exactly that
>manner. Whisky + Sugar.
I'm told that fresh bay leaves have a very mild narcotic effect, and
would be given to children to chew.
Badger Jones
www.youngforest.ca
Grappler240
>illegal. Trips and Sweeps are still legal though.
you ought to look into Greco, then. They also can't grab below the waistline.
-g
Kirk Lawson
>
> >Broughton Rules and going forward make any grips below the belt
> >illegal. Trips and Sweeps are still legal though.
>
> you ought to look into Greco, then. They also can't grab below the waistline.
You can in Collar and Elbow Wrestling, which I also study, as well.
Just not in BKB.
C&E had at least two "flavors." Irish and American. George Washington
and a number of other famous historic types practiced (and even
sponsored) C&E tournaments. An American C&E match was one when one's
opponent had three "pins" to the ground. Each person has 4 "pins," one
on each hip and one on each shoulder. When you can make 3 of your
opponents Pins touch simultaneously, you win the match. The match
starts from a standing position in which you grasp the back of your
opponents neck with your left hand and his left elbow with your right
hand and he reciprocates. From there, you can do throws, sweeps, trips,
etc., including an "Irish Pick" (Single Leg/Ankle Pick), or a Double.
Going for the legs is much harder though since you're opponent already
has ahold of your arm (unless he moved it) and can feel your movements.
I *generally* practice the Irish version which counts a round over after
a successful throw.
But anyway, you can't go for the legs in BKB.
Chas
>.....Kinda like listening to a guy like me
> trying to talk Jargon with you and saying some bull
It's funny that most people don't think there's a complex technical aspect
to 'art', and a vast amount of 'studio' information to learn- mechanical
tricks, visual conventions and so on. Our jargon is a weird as any science,
and I can tell how much someone knows from how they use the argot.
What hangs on the wall is only slightly more important than who put it
there.
Chas
Chas
> I recall reading that Michelangelo's "David" was considered such a
> Masterpiece because the marble had a central flaw making it likely to
> crack and shatter during the carving process and no other Master would
> touch it with a 10 foot pole. Thus, not only was the sculpture itself a
> work of brilliance for all the usual artistic reasons, but also because
> the medium itself was predisposed to failure and yet he made it succeed.
It's a lot more complicated than that. The stone had already been started by
another sculptor- certain 'bouging' (large waste removal cuts) decisions had
already been made, and the shape dictated a 'weak point'. The sculptor had
abandoned the stone for his purposes, but the quality of it demanded that
something be done with it. It is huge, and the cutting and transport were
very expensive.
The twisting of the central point of the sculpture and the low support to
the leg- with the arm bent at the elbow, allowed the large masses to
transition through the 'waist', and take advantage of a huge piece of
perfect Carrara marble. It wasn't 'flawed' as much as it was cut poorly for
the project- the part that was needing to be the waist was thick through the
wrong direction.
The composition set off a bunch of other people to sculpting in much the
same way and is considered a real transition in compositional elements and
commanding a volume of space far less supported than in the past.
Chas
Shuurai
> "Kirk Lawson" <lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote
> > > > Similarly what is the hardest, most disciplined art to learn?
> > > Realist painting.
> > Tromp l'oeil?
>
> It's actually really easy, it's just boring as hell. It's like
> 'paint-by-numbers' and is done completely mechanically- that's why
> 'commercial artists' do it so commonly. It's called 'rendering' by a
> draughtsman, tromp l'oeil by artists.
>
> Chas
It's easy to do - just hard to do well.
Chas
....I've only done wood block and not
> stone and it was hard as a mug...i can only imagine granite.
I was originally going to be a 'public' size sculptor- big pieces ala Henry
Moore. He imported Colorado Elmwood for a lot of his work, so it was
attractive.
I worked in wood, stone, did bronze chasing (the carving and finishing of a
bronze casting), red forging in very heavy copper mostly, in leather and
combinations of them all.
Stone is a booger. I've worked with the local alabaster (very soft), right
on up to granite and obsidian- it'll beat the shit out of you physically.
Large woodcarving was equally hard.
I never graduated to using power tools, so my direct carving is with a maul
or a stone dummy- it's like carpenter work in some ways; hammer stuff,
except heavier than a framing hammer.
Chas
Chas
> > Similarly what is the hardest, most disciplined art to learn?
Forty years ago- now it's easy.
Chas
El Queso
> El Queso <the_chees...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>LOL!!!! That must be why there are more blackbelts in TKD than all other
>>arts combined.
>
>
> There are probably also more people taking TKD than all other
> arts combined.
I dunno about that. There are supposedly close to 100,000,000 Chinese
that do Tai Chi. This number was from the Chinese govt. national martial
arts surveys that took place in the 80's and 90's. Even if that were
only half-accurate - that's a lot of people.
Queso
(Which isn't inconsistent with it being an art
> in which a black belt can be gained pretty fast, depending on the
> school/association/etc.)
Kirk Lawson
>
> "Kirk Lawson" <lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote
> >.....Kinda like listening to a guy like me
> > trying to talk Jargon with you and saying some bull
>
> It's funny that most people don't think there's a complex technical aspect
> to 'art', and a vast amount of 'studio' information to learn- mechanical
> tricks, visual conventions and so on.
Most every profession does. It's just that there are some that the
"average guy" doesn't think does.
> Our jargon is a weird as any science,
> and I can tell how much someone knows from how they use the argot.
I'm not surprised. I dabbled a wee bit back when and then hung with the
art majors quite a bit in college. I picked up *just* enough to know
that I don't know, ya know?
If it wasn't for the Internet, I'da misspelled "tromp l'oeil" and never
known the difference, congratulating myself the whole time for
remembering the phrase. :-)
> What hangs on the wall is only slightly more important than who put it
> there.
Weird but believable.
Kirk Lawson
> It's a lot more complicated than that.
Isn't it always? <sigh>
> The stone had already been started by
> another sculptor- certain 'bouging' (large waste removal cuts) decisions had
> already been made, and the shape dictated a 'weak point'. The sculptor had
> abandoned the stone for his purposes, but the quality of it demanded that
> something be done with it. It is huge, and the cutting and transport were
> very expensive.
> The twisting of the central point of the sculpture and the low support to
> the leg- with the arm bent at the elbow, allowed the large masses to
> transition through the 'waist', and take advantage of a huge piece of
> perfect Carrara marble. It wasn't 'flawed' as much as it was cut poorly for
> the project- the part that was needing to be the waist was thick through the
> wrong direction.
Keen.
> The composition set off a bunch of other people to sculpting in much the
> same way and is considered a real transition in compositional elements and
> commanding a volume of space far less supported than in the past.
He took an already demanding art form and kicked it up a notch.
Robert Low
El Queso <the_chees...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Robert Low wrote:
>> El Queso <the_chees...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>LOL!!!! That must be why there are more blackbelts in TKD than all other
>>>arts combined.
>> There are probably also more people taking TKD than all other
>> arts combined.
>I dunno about that. There are supposedly close to 100,000,000 Chinese
>that do Tai Chi.
Tai Chi as a slow motion exercise form, rather than Tai Chi
as a martial art, surely. I'm pretty sure that relatively
few of those TC guys were even playing tag in pairs,
never mind hitting each other (padded or not).
Robert Low
Kirk Lawson <lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote:
>Robert Low wrote:
>> Kirk Lawson <lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote:
>> >much disappears too. Your guard is much more extended (even when it's
>> >"close"), and it's easier to "block" punches, particularly ones that
>> Looks a lot like a standard karate/TKD guard, doesn't it? Lead
>> arm quite far out, fists at slightly below chin level?
>
>That's more of the London Prize Fighting Rules stance.
Yeah, those pics are more like what I'm thinking of.
The Broughton is intermediate between that and the
'gloves to face' kind of guard I associate with modern
boxing.
--
Rob. http://www.mis.coventry.ac.uk/~mtx014/
THE ICEPHREAK
>
> Similarly what is the hardest, most disciplined art to learn?
>
Eishinryu iaido. Traditional Japanese swordsmanship. It isn't a
particularly physical art, but it will smash you intellectually and
emotionally if you're not prepared for it. Scratch that, I lie, you
can't prepare yourself for it. You're constantly told what iaido
isn't, that your cuts aren't quite right and your posture sucks.
There is rarely any positive feedback in this art. It is an art where
exactness is demanded; we're talking about centimeters here. One can
never get complacent in iaido. Ever. Count on frequently asking
yourself what purpose there is for continuing your study. Even if you
are gifted with otherworldly psycho-motor skills, you'll have great
difficulty satisfying any good iaido instructor.
I'll tell you one thing that's certain about this art -- the more of a
toughguy you come off as, the sooner you'll be iaido roadkill. It has
a knack for weeding out chest-beating dumbasses. In fact, according
to what I see, only a small percentage make it to nidan (approximately
three years, Canadian Kendo Federation rules) period. Either way the
art serves its purpose; if you quit, it worked toward demonstrating
you don't have the perseverance to reach the highest levels of this
(or any art). If you persist, it worked toward identifying you as a
persistent martial artist capable of true mastery.
- IP
Sean
> >> Probabally sculpting.
> >
> >Working wax, as for bronze sculpture, isn't all that hard, it's the
> >reductive sculpting in resistant material that gets to be really difficult.
>
> i would have to go with Pappy on this one....I've only done wood block and not
> stone and it was hard as a mug...i can only imagine granite.
>
>
Ya, and unless you are carving resistant material, it's all totally fake anyway.
Chas
> It's easy to do - just hard to do well.
It's the refuge of genre artists; cowboys, teary eyed kids, ballet dancers.
You can paint WWII military planes, boats, street scenes- easy to sell good
paintings of photos.
Chas
T
> "Kirk Lawson" <lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote
>>>> Similarly what is the hardest, most disciplined art to learn?
>> Tromp l'oeil?
>
> It's actually really easy, it's just boring as hell. It's like
> 'paint-by-numbers' and is done completely mechanically- that's why
> 'commercial artists' do it so commonly. It's called 'rendering' by a
> draughtsman, tromp l'oeil by artists.
>
> Chas
The guys who do it freehand, like Robert Wittig, impress me, though.
T
> Among the arts I practice are Bata (Shillelagh)
"Hey, bata bata... hey, bata bata SWING!"
<thud>
Grappler240
>anyway.
>
good one.
I laughed out loud at that.
-Grap
Matthew Weigel
Dan Winsor <daniel.nospam...@sun.smapmenot.com> wrote:
> Karim Rashad wrote:
> > On Tue, 18 May 2004 11:54:39 -0400, Kirk Lawson wrote:
> >>
> >>It also helps explain my cheesy psuedo-british accent...
> >
> > And your bad teeth? ;-)
>
> Kirk was Mike Myers' study for his Austin Powers character.
Oddly, Mike Myers wore a wig because Kirk - nervous about being studied
- put one on. Mike didn't realize the wig wasn't part of the "Kirk
character" until afterward.
--
Matthew Weigel
the email address is real
the contents of the post are not
GreenDistantStar
"Kelly" <ke...@stewart1982.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:13bcf450.04051...@posting.google.com...
> Similarly what is the hardest, most disciplined art to learn?
Maurice Smith and Bas Rutten say Muay Thai is the toughest fighting you can
do, even more exhausting than nhb, so physically I'd say that's #1. Is that
what you mean by "hard"?
Some ma's require more than a lifetime to learn and that requires some
"discipline" alright, irrespective of their relative merits.
'Hard' and 'disciplined' are very general terms that will mean different
things to different people.
GDS
GreenDistantStar
"THE ICEPHREAK" <icep...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:2928380d.04051...@posting.google.com...
Sounds depressing.
Storys
"Kirk Lawson" <lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote in message
news:40AA8077...@heapy.com...
>
> I'm not surprised. I dabbled a wee bit back when and then hung with the
> art majors quite a bit in college. I picked up *just* enough to know
> that I don't know, ya know?
>
This is the first step of wisdom.
> If it wasn't for the Internet, I'da misspelled "tromp l'oeil" and never
> known the difference, congratulating myself the whole time for
> remembering the phrase. :-)
>
Learn to speak French & then it isn't so bad.
.............Tom.............
Chas
> The guys who do it freehand, like Robert Wittig, impress me, though.
I'm not sure what you think you mean by 'freehand'.
Chas
Matthew
news:13bcf450.04051...@posting.google.com...
> Similarly what is the hardest, most disciplined art to learn?
To use as intended in a fighting format:
Baguazhang (Exhibiting bias toward Chinese styles).
Even harder....finding someone who teaches it this way.
Matthew
Chas
> Sounds depressing.
Oh Dawg!
I've been re-reading the life of Tesshu; Sword of No-Sword. The guy kept
himself absolutely miserable for his entire life- what seems to be a
relatively joyless existence. He did shiai's that faced hundreds of
opponents in a row; days of it. He tried to stay as cold and cheerless as
possible; invited strangers to punch him and shit like that.
Considered maybe a better swordsman than Mushashi-
Chas
Matthew
I hate when I am not high enough....oh...jumping....never mind.
Matthew
Matthew
> easy to conceal. But lots of fun.
One word, closet :)
Matthew
El Queso
> El Queso <the_chees...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Robert Low wrote:
>>
>>>El Queso <the_chees...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>LOL!!!! That must be why there are more blackbelts in TKD than all other
>>>>arts combined.
>>>
>>>There are probably also more people taking TKD than all other
>>>arts combined.
>>
>>I dunno about that. There are supposedly close to 100,000,000 Chinese
>>that do Tai Chi.
>
>
> Tai Chi as a slow motion exercise form, rather than Tai Chi
> as a martial art, surely.
TKD as a sporting hobby, rather than TKD as a martial art, surely.
Queso
Grappler240
>I've been re-reading the life of Tesshu; Sword of No-Sword.
wasn't he one of the first to apply Zen philosohpy to swordsmanship??
Fraser Johnston
"GreenDistantStar" <GreenDis...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:GQxqc.46642$TT.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
But its hand when you need to cut the weeds in the back lawn.
Fraser
GreenDistantStar
"Fraser Johnston" <fra...@jcis.com.au> wrote in message
news:2h06p7F...@uni-berlin.de...
You have a wife. Where is your problem? :)
GDS
THE ICEPHREAK
>
> [Iaido] sounds depressing.
>
Trust me, no matter how strong your will is, iaido will kick your ass.
- IP
Karim Rashad
> The conclusion that I've come to is that weight and size *still* matter,
> though maybe not as much as in modern boxing. Probably more like Judo
> weight classes and for the same reason. The footwork is way different
> then modern boxing but yet the same. It's the same but longer range.
> You snipe your punches or use almost bounding entries to close and punch
> then retreat. The modern "Hook" pretty much disappears since once
> you're close enough to use a hook you've clenched and are trying to
> throw or trip, get a Chancery (headlock) or whatever. It makes the Hook
> a *very* specialized technique (it does still have a place) instead of a
> bread and butter type tech. The use of the forearms as a shield pretty
> much disappears too. Your guard is much more extended (even when it's
> "close"), and it's easier to "block" punches, particularly ones that
> Rounding Blows and Upper Cuts are only used after some sort of setup.
> It's safer to not tuck your chin since your guard is so much more
> extended and everything has such a longer range.
>
> Just kinda think of what Boxing would look like mixed with Judo and
> you'll have the flavor of it, I think. Monkey arms and short legs would
> be a definite advantage for longer reach and better throwing base.
Nifty stuff. Sounds like fun.
--
Karim Rashad <remove SPAMFREE: krashad at SPAMorbisFREEuk dot com>
"We shall abolish the orgasm. Our neurologists are at work on it now."
-O'Brien
phauna
"Kelly" <ke...@stewart1982.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:13bcf450.04051...@posting.google.com...
> Similarly what is the hardest,
Sculpture.
Tony
> >
> > Similarly what is the hardest, most disciplined art to learn?
> >
>
> Eishinryu iaido. Traditional Japanese swordsmanship. It isn't a
> particularly physical art, but it will smash you intellectually and
> emotionally if you're not prepared for it. Scratch that, I lie, you
> can't prepare yourself for it. You're constantly told what iaido
> isn't, that your cuts aren't quite right and your posture sucks.
> There is rarely any positive feedback in this art. It is an art where
> exactness is demanded; we're talking about centimeters here. One can
> never get complacent in iaido. Ever. Count on frequently asking
> yourself what purpose there is for continuing your study. Even if you
> are gifted with otherworldly psycho-motor skills, you'll have great
> difficulty satisfying any good iaido instructor.
I've been very interested in looking into Iaido, but it's quite hard to find
a good school. Are there any near Riverside, CA? (figure about 60 miles east
of LA, CA)
Richard Lancashire
> > But its hand when you need to cut the weeds in the back lawn.
> >
> > Fraser
>
> You have a wife. Where is your problem? :)
She's a Brit, isn't she?
:P
Rich
kalis
> grapp...@aol.comnojunk (Grappler240) wrote in
> <20040518141416...@mb-m14.aol.com>:
>
> >>Was that the white guy with the huge 'fro?
> >
> >yep.
> >
>
> Thought so. We used to get high and watch him in college and laugh because
> he looked EXACTLY like our off-campus landlord. Guy sure could paint him a
> nice one in no time.
>
>
> Oh wait, you're a cop right? Did I say "get high"? I meant "make
> cookies" yeah that's what I meant...
>
> A.
>
> p.S. Levo is the man!
And he always used to say "And here's a happy little tree.." or somesuch.
Funny guy.
Mike
Dan Winsor
> In article <40AA38C8...@sun.smapmenot.com>,
> Dan Winsor <daniel.nospam...@sun.smapmenot.com> wrote:
>
>>Karim Rashad wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 18 May 2004 11:54:39 -0400, Kirk Lawson wrote:
>>>
>>>>It also helps explain my cheesy psuedo-british accent...
>>>
>>>And your bad teeth? ;-)
>>
>>Kirk was Mike Myers' study for his Austin Powers character.
>
> Oddly, Mike Myers wore a wig because Kirk - nervous about being studied
> - put one on. Mike didn't realize the wig wasn't part of the "Kirk
> character" until afterward.
Great "behind the story" factoid, Matthew. Its great the way we can
disseminate misinformation 'round the world like this. Who says RMA
isn't good for anything?
--
Dan Winsor
Soy un poco loco en el coco.
Kirk Lawson
> Yeah, those pics are more like what I'm thinking of.
> The Broughton is intermediate between that and the
> 'gloves to face' kind of guard I associate with modern
> boxing.
Yup. Exactly. :-)
Peace favor your sword (IH)
--
"In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or
knowledge of their use."
-Achille Marozzo, 1536
--
"...it's the nature of the media and the participants. A herd of martial
artists gets together and a fight breaks out; quelle surprise."
-Chas Speaking of rec.martial-arts
Kirk Lawson
hahaha
2 points. :-)
Kirk Lawson
>
> In article <40AA38C8...@sun.smapmenot.com>,
> Dan Winsor <daniel.nospam...@sun.smapmenot.com> wrote:
>
> > Karim Rashad wrote:
> > > On Tue, 18 May 2004 11:54:39 -0400, Kirk Lawson wrote:
> > >>
> > >>It also helps explain my cheesy psuedo-british accent...
> > >
> > > And your bad teeth? ;-)
> >
> > Kirk was Mike Myers' study for his Austin Powers character.
>
> Oddly, Mike Myers wore a wig because Kirk - nervous about being studied
> - put one on. Mike didn't realize the wig wasn't part of the "Kirk
> character" until afterward.
I've gotta protect my Secret Identity *somehow* and the red spandex &
mask just don't seem to be cutt'n the mustard.
Kirk Lawson
You've seen those "Invisible Fence" collars on TV?
Badger_South
<lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote:
>> Oddly, Mike Myers wore a wig because Kirk - nervous about being studied
>> - put one on. Mike didn't realize the wig wasn't part of the "Kirk
>> character" until afterward.
>
>I've gotta protect my Secret Identity *somehow* and the red spandex &
>mask just don't seem to be cutt'n the mustard.
You've become famous. I mentioned to some friends that I met an online
friend at a knife fighting seminar who showed up in a paintball mask and
spats and they all simultaneously exclaimed 'KIRK!'
-B
Fraser Johnston
"Richard Lancashire" <rlanc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8ad6f59.04051...@posting.google.com...
She is actually. But she was born in Malta. She is half scot and half pom.
Fraser
Badger_South
wrote:
LOL. I was scanning this quickly and read ' pom ' as ' porn '. If you're
using san serif the 'm' and 'rn' can kinda blur and look the same. No
disrespect meant, btw.
-B
Fraser Johnston
"Badger_South" <Bad...@South.net> wrote in message
news:o6qma09bminmku7tn...@4ax.com...
None taken. In fact you cracked me up.
Fraser
Dan Winsor
>
> You've seen those "Invisible Fence" collars on TV?
I highly recommend the upgrade to the ones that have a clicker with
them too. A) Helps to retrain undesirable behavior like thumb sucking
and nose picking. B) Is a lot of fun at parties.
Fraser? You paying attention? There's a lot of good parenting
information flying about here.
Kirk Lawson
> You've become famous. I mentioned to some friends that I met an online
> friend at a knife fighting seminar who showed up in a paintball mask and
> spats and they all simultaneously exclaimed 'KIRK!'
When do I get my first stalker?
Fraser Johnston
"Dan Winsor" <daniel.nospam...@sun.smapmenot.com> wrote in
message news:40AB6D0...@sun.smapmenot.com...
> Kirk Lawson wrote:
> >
> > You've seen those "Invisible Fence" collars on TV?
>
> I highly recommend the upgrade to the ones that have a clicker with
> them too. A) Helps to retrain undesirable behavior like thumb sucking
> and nose picking. B) Is a lot of fun at parties.
>
> Fraser? You paying attention? There's a lot of good parenting
> information flying about here.
>
*scribbles notes*
Fraser
Chas
> >Oh Dawg!
> >I've been re-reading the life of Tesshu; Sword of No-Sword.
> wasn't he one of the first to apply Zen philosohpy to swordsmanship??
No, but he's considered one of the ones that exemplifies it. He studied
under and with a number of older guys that were Zen exponents. The
philosophy was well entrenched in kendo when he came on the scene.
Right off hand, I can't think of anyone I've ever heard of that trained as
hard. You don't often see very big men who train hard. He was 6'4" or so,
240 lbs.; huge for a Japanese.
hell of a dude.
Chas
Badger North
<lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote:
>You've seen those "Invisible Fence" collars on TV?
I just feed my children carbonated beverages and an alka-seltzer.
Then I shake 'em up, rub them on my sweater and they stick to the wall
just like a balloon.
Badger Jones
www.youngforest.ca