Comments - "Cobra Fist"?
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
Rather than spewing about it, I'll just put it up for the group's
comments...
http://fileserver.uechi-ryu.com/videos/Bill_sCobraFist.mov
-B
Fraser Johnston
"Badger_s" <Badg...@south.com> wrote in message
news:o1r1t1501jkoaboe9...@4ax.com...
>
> Rather than spewing about it, I'll just put it up for the group's
> comments...
>
> http://fileserver.uechi-ryu.com/videos/Bill_sCobraFist.mov
>
" "
Fraser
Rabid Weasel
Would probably split the skin. Doubt it'd have much knockout power.
Peace favor your sword (IH),
Kirk
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
Rabid Weasel
I think your keyboard is broken.
See that's the problem with us Keyboard Commandos. We always end up
breaking our keyboards.
I guess it's good for the keyboard industry.
;-)
Badger North
<lawson@NO18840SPAM+dayton.net> wrote:
>Would probably split the skin.
I doubt it would even do that, unless he was fighting someone made of
foam rubber, lying down on a floor.
Badger Jones
www.youngforest.ca
"Never, under ANY circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night."
Scary
foam rubber, lying down on a floor.
Yeah but what's cool is he can say
"You come near me and I'll give you such a nasty poke!"
Hey anyone remember that movie "Remo Unarmed and Dangerous"
Scary.
Philippe
book series "The Destroyer", centered on a fabled MA called Sinanju...
(ahem).. not that I ever followed that series or anything...
:)
P.
--
Unless otherwise indicated, anything I write is either garnered from
experience or pulled out of my ass, depending on situational needs..
Chas
> Actually, it was "Remo Williams; the adventure begins"... based on the
> book series "The Destroyer", centered on a fabled MA called Sinanju...
> (ahem).. not that I ever followed that series or anything...
Yeah; I didn't end up with but about sixty of them either.
Chas
Matthew Freedman
although not written by the original team anymore. pity -- the wit was
what made them good.
Aristeia
"Philippe" <pboud_0...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1O7Af.93687$AP5.23262@edtnps84...
> Scary wrote:
>> I doubt it would even do that, unless he was fighting someone made of
>> foam rubber, lying down on a floor.
>>
>> Yeah but what's cool is he can say
>> "You come near me and I'll give you such a nasty poke!"
>>
>> Hey anyone remember that movie "Remo Unarmed and Dangerous"
>>
>> Scary.
>>
> Actually, it was "Remo Williams; the adventure begins"... based on the
> book series "The Destroyer", centered on a fabled MA called Sinanju...
>
would guess those areas where it was released after it was clear the pilot
was not going to be picked up as a series.
Chas
> although not written by the original team anymore. pity -- the wit was
> what made them good.
Richard ben Sapir died some years ago- untimely and unexpected; cancer, ims.
Warren Murphy wrote some stuff solo and with his old lady, Molly Cochran,
but the franchise passed to ghosties pretty quickly.
Chas
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
<young_...@REEEMOVEhotmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:22:11 GMT, Rabid Weasel
><lawson@NO18840SPAM+dayton.net> wrote:
>
>>Would probably split the skin.
>
>I doubt it would even do that, unless he was fighting someone made of
>foam rubber, lying down on a floor.
What's surprising to me is that he went ahead and videoed and posted it.
Here's the forum topic if you can stand the preening and genuflecting:
http://forums.uechi-ryu.com/viewtopic.php?t=14827
-B
Badger North
>What's surprising to me is that he went ahead and videoed and posted it.
Judging by the forum reaction, I think he was right in tune with what
his target audience would think.
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
<young_...@REEEMOVEhotmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 15:00:43 -0500, Badger_s<Badg...@south.com wrote:
>
>>What's surprising to me is that he went ahead and videoed and posted it.
>
>Judging by the forum reaction, I think he was right in tune with what
>his target audience would think.
I think if I went to spar/fight anybody and they actually tried to use
Uechi techniques and stuff like that, I'd die laughing.
However I must say that there was one guy who I sparred who could literally
fight like that and I could not get through. This guy was freakin' hyoouge,
name of Rad Smith, a bit of a legend among the Uechi adept, I think he was
about 6'4, and looked like a bodybuilder; must have been at least 225lbs if
he was an ounce. ;-) I have a feeling at least some of his ability was due
to his size, but he's the only person I've ever seen that could use
traditional Uechi methods to free spar. He's the one I mentioned that fsked
up his toes by doing their type of toe kicks.
Sparring him was painful, too. It was like freesparring a guy who was
fighting you with clubs, his arms so big and hard naturally that you
couldn't ignore his blocking. Not sure how well he'd do against a guy his
same size, but for me at 5'8" and 155lbs, it was ridiculous.
Anyway, I have a picture of him training with my wife's TJ class back then
(1970s) and you see a bunch of females and regular-sized people and there
in the back is Rad sticking out looking like Lurch from Adams' Family, lol.
The teacher, a rather diminutive lady from Hong Kong? (name escapes me, but
I'll ask my wife and post back) was able to push him around, which I
thought was amazing, but didn't realize just how amazing at the time.
Oops, seems like she wasn't from HK, but from mainland China, and her name
was Margaret Chang. I've never been able to turn her up in a google. Not
sure if she had the real stuff, but must have had something going for her -
she wasn't just a TJ "form" instructor, though the class never got much
past teaching the basics of the form, iirc. Style was Wu.
-B
Fraser Johnston
Speechless.
Fraser
Fraser Johnston
> On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 10:32:48 -0500, Badger North
> <young_...@REEEMOVEhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:22:11 GMT, Rabid Weasel
>><lawson@NO18840SPAM+dayton.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Would probably split the skin.
>>
>>I doubt it would even do that, unless he was fighting someone made of
>>foam rubber, lying down on a floor.
>
> What's surprising to me is that he went ahead and videoed and posted it.
>
> Here's the forum topic if you can stand the preening and genuflecting:
>
> http://forums.uechi-ryu.com/viewtopic.php?t=14827
Damn. They did everything except drop to the floor and suck his dick.
Fraser
GreenDistantStar
"Badger North" <young_...@REEEMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pqi2t1p99ocmto2n0...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 15:00:43 -0500, Badger_s<Badg...@south.com wrote:
>
>>What's surprising to me is that he went ahead and videoed and posted it.
>
> Judging by the forum reaction, I think he was right in tune with what
> his target audience would think.
Well, this clip and the awe-struck commentary by his acolytes just about
sums up all that's bad in ma...imho of course.
'Bill' has probably spent a huge amount of time (between his lunch breaks at
McDojo) developing a useless technique, but he has a Black Belt and a bunch
of uncritical followers.
I watch in amused disgust, hoping for the day that this Fred Ettish
look-alike gets pimped by someone with a clue.
That just might prevent him passing this useless shit onto others, who might
get seriously injured trying to use it when push comes to shove.
GDS
xiaou2
news:o1r1t1501jkoaboe9...@4ax.com:
Well, it contains a whip motion, which gives it power, kinda like the nun-
chukas. It has the piercing power, because hes hitting with a pointed part
of the 2nd knuckles (like lepard paw)... so its less surface area. The
speed helps it attain some power.
This strike cant be used on many areas. Its only good for soft tissue
targets like the throat, eyes, maybe the ribs.. though, the action may not
work well or at all from a side angle.. and possibly temples.
This is a poor dirivative of the true "Snake" art from china. In snake,
they tend to hit with the fingers instead. It gives more reach as well.
Can be used in any direction, and can start instantly without having to
recoil first.
(This technique is also like the "Crane Beak " from the crane style. They
hit with the thumb and 2 fingers clamping together - to form a beak shape.
Good for hooking an arm, or hitting pressure points)
The other thing, is that hes using the wrong leg. Hed get 2 times the
power generation if he used the "lead leg + the lead handstrike", as more
weight would be with the strike.. and, the hip would turn further, and, it
would give more reach.
Snake also tends to use more 'whole body' whip movments.
WC steals from some of snake style, in "Biu Gee" or thrusting figers.
A better hand strike to use rahter than that 'cobra fist' would be the
pheoniix knuckle. Basically, make a fist with the pointing fingers knuckle
sticking out about a half inch, and lock it down by pressing the thumb
on top of it. Great to drive into people who wont let go of you :) Like
into the soft meat of the leg for example. Knowledge of pressure points
helps. Though done hard enough, just about any muscle target is gona hurt
badly.
Anyway, nothing new here.
Aristeia
"GreenDistantStar" <GreenNOSPAM...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:K_gAf.222671$V7.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> That just might prevent him passing this useless shit onto others, who
> might get seriously injured trying to use it when push comes to shove.
I hear this alot. "these arts/teachers/mcdojos are putting peoples lives in
danger teaching this shit". Any documented cases of people dieing or close
to death by trying to employ TMA techniques.?
Aristeia
"xiaou2" <xia...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9751E87A9B07...@24.24.2.165...
> This is a poor dirivative of the true "Snake" art from china. In snake,
> they tend to hit with the fingers instead. It gives more reach as well.
And no doubt, more broken fingers.
xiaou2
news:dqsn3l$7d1$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz:
No, because you condition them propperly. After a few months of that,
soft target areas are no problem. It may take 1yr or more to condition
them for hard collisions with wood, brick, steel..ect - without harm.
Im not sure 100% on how snake strikes, but I personally bend the middle
finger back a hair, so that the three fingers form a line thats all the
same height. That prevents the middle finger from taking all the force
when colliding into hardened materials.
Pheonix knuckle is better for one that dosnt want to train conditioning.
Crane beak, has less chance of fingers seperating on impact.. and overall
less forces to have to widthstand.
Use of "dit da jow" (chinese herbal topical) is supposed to be very good
when training conditioning drills. Ive used it myself. I cant honestly
say I know if it worked or not.. but, there was no trouble with huge
calluses or any after effects from hitting wood/steel/concrete..ect. after
several years time.
Conditioning using wall mounted sandbags. and Or use of barrels of small
hard beans...thrusting fingers into them. Iron palm bags lying flat filled
with anything from sand to small pebbles.
Matthew Freedman
be the
pheoniix knuckle. Basically, make a fist with the pointing fingers
knuckle
sticking out about a half inch, and lock it down by pressing the
thumb
on top of it. Great to drive into people who wont let go of you :)
Like
into the soft meat of the leg for example. >>>>>>>>
I agree -- though with the right type of practice, you can penetrate so
deep through the "soft meat" that you can easily reach -- and break --
the bone. This is how the top WC guys easily escape the Gracy guard.
Strider
a solution in search of a problem.
Strider
Kevin Lowe
"Matthew Freedman" <matthew...@gmail.com> wrote:
Xiaou?
--
Kevin Lowe,
Tasmania.
xiaou2
news:1137896468.3...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
I doubt anyones gona break a bone with that.. but done in the right spots,
it will cause the muscle area to 'deaden' numb, and lose control
temporarily.
Topo Gigio
If I put a round house kick up along side your head it will cause you whole
body to go numb and lose control for a count of ten. It is game I win.
GreenDistantStar
"Matthew Freedman" <matthew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137896468.3...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I agree -- though with the right type of practice, you can penetrate so
> deep through the "soft meat" that you can easily reach -- and break --
> the bone. This is how the top WC guys easily escape the Gracy (sic) guard.
Which WT guys are these....the ones that are facing Gracies and easily
escaping guard with their bone-breaking strikes?
Need some names & dates here.....or, heaven forbid, would this be another
Xiaou ?(ma myth)
GDS
Chas
> Which WT guys are these....the ones that are facing Gracies and easily
> escaping guard with their bone-breaking strikes?
It is interesting that striking is taking so many of the bouts now- as
contrasted with the period in which submissions ruled. You see people
getting offed with techniques that had been decried as useless just moments
ago; head-kicks, rib-cage kicks, jumping/spinning kicks- the return of the
elbow, the knee, head-clashing- the emphasis on the standing clinch, and so
on.
The martial arts that are being 'mixed' are expanding as well; sambo, coupla
kinds of wrestling, some tkd/hapkido people, muay thai/boxing/kickboxing,
pankration, etc.
As I understand it, even the Gracies are studying other methodologies-
Chas
Aristeia
"Chas" <chascl...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:vLmdnU9fPtx9OU7e...@comcast.com...
>> It is interesting that striking is taking so many of the bouts now- as
> contrasted with the period in which submissions ruled. You see people
> getting offed with techniques that had been decried as useless just
> moments ago; head-kicks, rib-cage kicks, jumping/spinning kicks- the
> return of the elbow, the knee, head-clashing- the emphasis on the standing
> clinch, and so on.
> The martial arts that are being 'mixed' are expanding as well; sambo,
> coupla kinds of wrestling, some tkd/hapkido people, muay
> thai/boxing/kickboxing, pankration, etc.
> As I understand it, even the Gracies are studying other methodologies-
>
Yep, evolution at work. My response to a similar comment on another forum:
Understand that what we're seeing in MMA is not a return to form of
strikers. It's an evolution of fighters who have developed ground games to
the point that it allows stand up. Remember in the early UFC"s it wasn't
just the gracie fights that went to the ground - even two strikers fighting
ended up in a clinch or on the ground. What we've got now is individuals who
have such good takedown defence and good enough positional ability on the
ground that they can at times force the fight back to the feet.
You've also got time limits, fights being stood up for inaction alot faster
etc etc.
So while it may appear that strikers are back to the fore, it's only because
they have sick ground games that we can only dream of (by and large).
Of course the corollory to that is that pure BJJists, who kick ass against
your average fighter from 10 years ago, need to adjust to a new breed who
can keep the game up for longer. If they don't they risk getting KTFO which
we've seen a bit of lately (Royler anyone?)
But realistically the days of "stylists" are long gone. It's been years
since it would have made sense to push matches as "karate v Judo" like they
did in the early UFC's. Now it's a step further and you can't even say
fighter x comes from a karate or judo background. For the new generation of
fighters alot of them started out in MMA and are truly well rounded. In
other words BJJers have adapted but you may not notice cause they're not
always called BJJers any more, they're MMAers.
Matthew Freedman
GreenDistantStar wrote:
> "Matthew Freedman" <matthew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1137896468.3...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> > I agree -- though with the right type of practice, you can penetrate so
> > deep through the "soft meat" that you can easily reach -- and break --
> > the bone. This is how the top WC guys easily escape the Gracy (sic) guard.
>
> Which WT guys are these....the ones that are facing Gracies and easily
> escaping guard with their bone-breaking strikes?
not exactly. I don't know of any top WT guy fighting an actual member
of the Gracy (you spelled it wrong, btw) family per se.
But I do know (because I was there) that on many occasions, "badass"
Gracy judo fighters come into our school challenge shifu. I only saw
the leg break happen on one occasion when shifu got mad after the Gracy
man taunting him -- usually he just causes such blinding pain to the
leg nerves that they go unconscious from it, wake up totally
disoriented, and leave quickly. But this time the Gracy man insult his
family. Bad idea--biu jee strike BOOM! Gracey man's leg broken about 2
seconds later, hehehe.
This is why a lot of the top WC guys work as butchers--no need to use
knives, they can quickly and easily butcher the animal with biu jee
strikes.
>
> Need some names & dates here.....or, heaven forbid, would this be another
> Xiaou ?(ma myth)
I don't remember any specific dates, and the Gracy practioners are too
ashamed/embarassed to leave their names after losing so quickly. My
shifu's name is Bruce Li--a top student of the original Bruce Lee.
Fraser Johnston
> This is why a lot of the top WC guys work as butchers--no need to use
> knives, they can quickly and easily butcher the animal with biu jee
> strikes.
Bwahahahahhaha. *sharp intake of breath* Bwaahahahahaha.
Fraser
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
<matthew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Which WT guys are these....the ones that are facing Gracies and easily
>> escaping guard with their bone-breaking strikes?
>
>not exactly. I don't know of any top WT guy fighting an actual member
>of the Gracy (you spelled it wrong, btw) family per se.
>
>But I do know (because I was there) that on many occasions, "badass"
>Gracy judo fighters come into our school challenge shifu. I only saw
>the leg break happen on one occasion when shifu got mad after the Gracy
>man taunting him -- usually he just causes such blinding pain to the
>leg nerves that they go unconscious from it, wake up totally
>disoriented, and leave quickly. But this time the Gracy man insult his
>family. Bad idea--biu jee strike BOOM! Gracey man's leg broken about 2
>seconds later, hehehe.
>
>This is why a lot of the top WC guys work as butchers--no need to use
>knives, they can quickly and easily butcher the animal with biu jee
>strikes.
>
>>
>> Need some names & dates here.....or, heaven forbid, would this be another
>> Xiaou ?(ma myth)
>
>I don't remember any specific dates, and the Gracy practioners are too
>ashamed/embarassed to leave their names after losing so quickly. My
>shifu's name is Bruce Li--a top student of the original Bruce Lee.
Too much heavy metal in diet or alternate Universe bleed through...?
-B
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
wrote:
>
>"Chas" <chascl...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:vLmdnU9fPtx9OU7e...@comcast.com...
>>> It is interesting that striking is taking so many of the bouts now- as
>> contrasted with the period in which submissions ruled. You see people
>> getting offed with techniques that had been decried as useless just
>> moments ago; head-kicks, rib-cage kicks, jumping/spinning kicks- the
>> return of the elbow, the knee, head-clashing- the emphasis on the standing
>> clinch, and so on.
>> The martial arts that are being 'mixed' are expanding as well; sambo,
>> coupla kinds of wrestling, some tkd/hapkido people, muay
>> thai/boxing/kickboxing, pankration, etc.
>> As I understand it, even the Gracies are studying other methodologies-
>>
>
>Yep, evolution at work. My response to a similar comment on another forum:
>
> Understand that what we're seeing in MMA is not a return to form of
>strikers. It's an evolution of fighters who have developed ground games to
>the point that it allows stand up. Remember in the early UFC"s it wasn't
>just the gracie fights that went to the ground - even two strikers fighting
>ended up in a clinch or on the ground. What we've got now is individuals who
>have such good takedown defence and good enough positional ability on the
>ground that they can at times force the fight back to the feet.
Since everyone sees this except Chas and I'm pretty sure he's not lost his
faculties, I think he's just being contrary.
As far as a rise of striking and standup, consider that if two good bjj
players get into the octagon and they know their ground games will pretty
much play to stalemate, istm they both elect, sometimes by unspoken mutual
consent, to do standup. Often times they have been training a lot of
standup just to be able to broaden their game and to have a stalemate
breaker - so to them it brings back some of the excitement.
There are a few guys like Chuck Liddell who are very difficult to clinch,
takedown or keep from standing up. But he's acquiring these skills through
a process he's also got a wrestling backgroun. You'll likely not find a
fighter with absolutely no ground game exposure or training who is able to
thwart the clinch, takedown or ground game just through their original
(striking) skills. Thus clinch, takedown and ground games all remain valid
and generally dominate for the vast majority of MMA players, and will
continue to do so. Though you can 'tack on' some striking skill, or find
some natural talent the road to a ground game isn't parallel. It's a long
hard road and only wrestlers and bjj/judo players will be taking it.
-B
GreenDistantStar
>
> GreenDistantStar wrote:
>> "Matthew Freedman" <matthew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1137896468.3...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>> > I agree -- though with the right type of practice, you can penetrate so
>> > deep through the "soft meat" that you can easily reach -- and break --
>> > the bone. This is how the top WC guys easily escape the Gracy (sic)
>> > guard.
>>
>> Which WT guys are these....the ones that are facing Gracies and easily
>> escaping guard with their bone-breaking strikes?
>
> not exactly. I don't know of any top WT guy fighting an actual member
> of the Gracy (you spelled it wrong, btw) family per se.
Hey, Matthew, are you talking about the Gracy family from Boise Idaho, or
are you talking about the Gracie family from Brazil?
> But I do know (because I was there) that on many occasions, "badass"
> Gracy judo fighters come into our school challenge shifu.
Bullshit.
I only saw
> the leg break happen on one occasion when shifu got mad after the Gracy
> man taunting him -- usually he just causes such blinding pain to the
> leg nerves that they go unconscious from it, wake up totally
> disoriented, and leave quickly. But this time the Gracy man insult his
> family. Bad idea--biu jee strike BOOM! Gracey man's leg broken about 2
> seconds later, hehehe.
Bullshit.
>
> This is why a lot of the top WC guys work as butchers--no need to use
> knives, they can quickly and easily butcher the animal with biu jee
> strikes.
Bullshit.
>>
>> Need some names & dates here.....or, heaven forbid, would this be another
>> Xiaou ?(ma myth)
>
> I don't remember any specific dates, and the Gracy practioners are too
> ashamed/embarassed to leave their names after losing so quickly. My
> shifu's name is Bruce Li--a top student of the original Bruce Lee.
You don't remember because a) it never happened and b) you don't have a clue
what you are talking about.
GDS
Chas
> Since everyone sees this except Chas and I'm pretty sure he's not lost his
> faculties, I think he's just being contrary.
Just a little while ago, you were talking about how grapplers just walked
through strikers- ignored them.
And now, here you are, watching strikers take *more* mma bouts than
grapplers.
and *I'm* being 'contrary?
pshaw.
> As far as a rise of striking and standup, consider that if two good bjj
> players get into the octagon and they know their ground games will pretty
> much play to stalemate, istm they both elect, sometimes by unspoken mutual
> consent, to do standup.
Uh, yeah- take an asswhipping instead of a tap-out
pull the other one.
> Often times they have been training a lot of
> standup just to be able to broaden their game and to have a stalemate
> breaker - so to them it brings back some of the excitement.
It is far more entertaining- although I sometimes feel they move too quickly
to stand them back up.
> There are a few guys like Chuck Liddell who are very difficult to clinch,
> takedown or keep from standing up. But he's acquiring these skills through
> a process he's also got a wrestling backgroun.
Yeah- wrestling's been around a while.
Does that mean you're tryig to co-opt wrestling as well as 'bjj'?
how droll.
> You'll likely not find a
> fighter with absolutely no ground game exposure or training who is able to
> thwart the clinch, takedown or ground game just through their original
> (striking) skills.
Hell, even the tkd guys have had hapkido for thirty years-
which 'absolutely no ground game' people are you talking about?
boxers?
> Thus clinch, takedown and ground games all remain valid
> and generally dominate for the vast majority of MMA players, and will
> continue to do so. Though you can 'tack on' some striking skill, or find
> some natural talent the road to a ground game isn't parallel. It's a long
> hard road and only wrestlers and bjj/judo players will be taking it.
Depends on whether they continue to skew the rules and arena in favor of
laying down a lot.
Chas
Fraser Johnston
> Just a little while ago, you were talking about how grapplers just walked
> through strikers- ignored them.
> And now, here you are, watching strikers take *more* mma bouts than
> grapplers.
> and *I'm* being 'contrary?
> pshaw.
There is no such thing as a pure grappler or striker in MMA today.
Fraser
GreenDistantStar
Oh, I have been so BADLY trolled & pwned!!!
Ah, well done Matthew!
GDS
P&M
WannabeSomeone
"Scary" <model...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1137985219.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Gracy judo fighters come into our school challenge shifu. I only saw
> the leg break happen on one occasion when shifu got mad after the Gracy
>
> man taunting him -- usually he just causes such blinding pain to the
> leg nerves that they go unconscious from it, wake up totally
> disoriented, and leave quickly. But this time the Gracy man insult his
> family. Bad idea--biu jee strike BOOM! Gracey man's leg broken about 2
> seconds later, hehehe.
>
> put up or shut up because I'm sick of all this Chop-Suey Wing Chun
> bullshit.
> You seem to forget that many of us have been at this martial arts thing
> for a long time and might even have trained in Wing Chun at one time so
> you're comments sound childishly stupid to us.
>
> So here it is even though I've been sick I challenge any Kung Fu
> monkey who wants to try his luck to a NHB fight, if they want to look
> me up in Sydney Australia we'll make the arrangements.
> And know this I will your break arms and legs and afterwards put you to
> sleep.
>
> So think happy thoughts!
> Scary.
>
Why don't you go up to William Cheung's Wing Chun joint and tell what you
think.
Wannabe
=======
Chas
> There is no such thing as a pure grappler or striker in MMA today.
well; give that lad a Gold Star in today's copybook.
Give it another fifty years, and a system will begin to emerge; favored
'styles', a curriculum,.....
Techniques will be 'linked'; all 'ranges of combat' will be addressed;
methods for solo study and refinement will be taught, specialized drills and
exercise equipment will be formulated.
Chas
GreenDistantStar
"WannabeSomeone" <Wannabe...@REMOVETHISsympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:c6YAf.4294$ve.9...@news20.bellglobal.com...
We did. We sent Emin and they both ended up in a girlie-fight.
GDS
Scary
you
think.
Wannabe
=======
Because William Cheung wouldn't make such stupid claims regarding WT,
and because Roots Gym also trains at his club and he's guys train
with us.
William Cheung knows the value of BJJ, and even encourages he's guys
to do it!
I'm not disparaging WT in general, it is what it is! Just those
delusional guys would think they can beat a grappler with Chain punches
and knee kicks.
It was proved in 1994 and it seems to have to be proved again. So put
up or shut up.
Scary.
Matthew Freedman
I've read extensively in the r.m-a archive and the newsgroup seemed so
much more _fun_ when people like EisMadchen and StephieXXX were around.
Maddening at the time perhaps, but fun to read now.
Of course, I don't know if those people were really "trolls" per se. I
can't tell if Stephie/Eis was trolling, or just *very*
stubborn/naive/whateveryouwannacallit. Either way, great stuff.
Fraser Johnston
"WannabeSomeone" <Wannabe...@REMOVETHISsympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:c6YAf.4294$ve.9...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> think.
Because he doesn't anonymously talk shit on the internet. That and Scary
would murder him.
Fraser
Fraser Johnston
It's called MMA Chas and it's been around for years.
Fraser
xiaou2
> If I put a round house kick up along side your head it will cause you
> whole body to go numb and lose control for a count of ten. It is game
> I win.
So will a nice punch to the head. So what.
Technically, one could block the roundhouse by stepping in and useing the
side of the body as well as the arm.. and strike with the opposite hand as
a pheonix knuckle to the inner thigh of the kicking leg at the same moment.
The pain and 'nerve shock' may be enough to cause one to not be able to
stand upon setting the leg down... or at very least, cause loss of motion,
speed, accuracy, and or stability.
*btw.. If one was really good, they could use the elbow point as a direct
strike to the kick leg. Bone destruction tactic.
Doubt the pheonix knuckle? Try hitting yourself with it, hard, deep into
the muscle tissues. Try various areas.. and you can easily see how
effective it can be used against another.
These strikes arnt your typical boxing punch strikes. They go deeper
because theres less surface area. They do more damage than you may
realize.
Try it on your next sparring victim... (if there are no gloves).
While Wing Chun just uses the fingers to strike simular to this.. Ive
seen other styles use / practice this technique.
xiaou2
news:ZfYAf.224714$V7.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
> Oh, I have been so BADLY trolled & pwned!!!
>
> Ah, well done Matthew!
>
> GDS
>
> P&M
lol That was too funny :) Guess now you have to Read the posts before
answering them ;) :)
Chas
> It's called MMA Chas and it's been around for years.
No Frase; it's been around for years and now they call it 'mma'.
The only thing that's been lacking has been a Vegas promoter, bud; only the
game is new.
Chas
Rabid Weasel
>
> "GreenDistantStar" <GreenNOSPAM...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:K_gAf.222671$V7.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>> That just might prevent him passing this useless shit onto others, who
>> might get seriously injured trying to use it when push comes to shove.
>
> I hear this alot. "these arts/teachers/mcdojos are putting peoples lives in
> danger teaching this shit". Any documented cases of people dieing or close
> to death by trying to employ TMA techniques.?
Well, there's plenty of cases of people getting their butts kicked.
Conversely, there's also plenty of cases of McDojo dudes protecting
themselves as well. <shrug>
Peace favor your sword (IH),
Kirk
Robert Low
> Conversely, there's also plenty of cases of McDojo dudes protecting
> themselves as well. <shrug>
Any tkd'er knows somebody who defended himself with a spinning
hook kick against an assault. Of course, it's not as if people
go about telling the stories about when their training failed...
(And that also isn't to say that the spinning hook kick was
more effective than a right cross from the same person would
have been :-))
Rabid Weasel
>>I don't remember any specific dates, and the Gracy practioners are too
>>ashamed/embarassed to leave their names after losing so quickly. My
>>shifu's name is Bruce Li--a top student of the original Bruce Lee.
>
> Too much heavy metal in diet or alternate Universe bleed through...?
>
> -B
His mother told him not to chew on the mercury thermometers, but did he
listen? NOOOooooo.....
Rabid Weasel
> Couldn't resist...hope I did not offend.
nah. It was funny. I was laughing from the first. Couldn't believe
anyone actually took the bait. :-)
Badger North
<brenin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> This is a poor dirivative of the true "Snake" art from china. In snake,
>> they tend to hit with the fingers instead. It gives more reach as well.
>
>And no doubt, more broken fingers.
Sure, the probability of getting that particular injury increases.
Simultaneously, they're going to be putting a lot of thought into how
to still strike like that while avoiding the whole broken finger
thang.
Conditioning, striking angles, and how to position the fingers to
reinforce the striking area are the typical areas of study.
Badger Jones
www.youngforest.ca
"Never, under ANY circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night."
Badger North
>
>> If I put a round house kick up along side your head it will cause you
>> whole body to go numb and lose control for a count of ten. It is game
>> I win.
>
> So will a nice punch to the head. So what.
Xiaou has jik chun choi'd the correct.
GreenDistantStar
"xiaou2" <xia...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97543F253B929...@24.24.2.166...
> lol That was too funny :) Guess now you have to Read the posts before
> answering them ;) :)
Go fuck yourself, little wannabe Wing Cunter. You should understand it's
idiots like you that Matthew mocks.
GDS
Fraser Johnston
MMA has been around for at least 6 or 7 years. Punching people in the head
and rolling around in the dirt has been around since men discovered women.
Fraser
Strider
I am deeply contemplating this disturbing insight.
Strider
Matthew Freedman
xiaou2 to get so angry that he perform "ultimate" biu jee strike,
ripping the space-time continuum and destroying the universe--
Scary
xiaou2 to get so angry that he perform "ultimate" biu jee strike,
ripping the space-time continuum and destroying the universe--
Ah, so you really were trolling.
Scary
WannabeSomeone
> might want to watch your language--for all our sakes. I would not want
> xiaou2 to get so angry that he perform "ultimate" biu jee strike,
> ripping the space-time continuum and destroying the universe--
>
Don't worry. We all have multiple copies of ourselves in many parallel
universe.
Anyways, a universe is a constant which can neither be created nor
destroyed. However, it can collapse itself into a singularity and then
worm-hole itself in the form of energy and emerge from a different location
and reconstitute itself. Hal will still be there. The internet connection
may be faster.
xiaou2
> Go fuck yourself, little wannabe Wing Cunter. You should understand
> it's idiots like you that Matthew mocks.
>
> GDS
Who'd have thought you could top your own post in laughs. heh
Its very obviuos that it was a mockery. Anyone with half a brain
can see that. Ohh but wait, maybe it took you a few hours to realize it,
so you thought you had to bring it to my attention?!
Your reactions in Both these posts (and many others) shows your infintile
attitudes and raw sewage personality. Low class all the way.
You need less martial art instruction, and more anger managment, and
good mannerism classes.
Scary
Its very obviuos that it was a mockery. Anyone with half a brain
can see that. Ohh but wait, maybe it took you a few hours to realize
it,
so you thought you had to bring it to my attention?!
Your reactions in Both these posts (and many others) shows your
infintile
attitudes and raw sewage personality. Low class all the way.
You need less martial art instruction, and more anger managment, and
good mannerism classes.
Hey Xiaou! Do you think comments about Royce Gracie's lack of skill and
excuses like "My art is too deadly for an actual fight" will entitle
you to any respect from us?
That's the lamest McDojo excuse there is.
If you want to show up at some BJJ club to prove your statements,
we're waiting.
Till then you can go on playing with you're wooden man and we'll
just keep on laughing at you.
Scary.
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
Peter's a good guy. Not sure why he feels so tweaked by your commentary.
Though some find your point of view insular and maybe behind the times, you
are sincere and to your credit you have remained a gentleman through all
things.
-B
Rabid Weasel
I hate to say it X, but GDS is right, Matthew *was* mocking sycophantic
Wing Chun followers.
Additionally, Matthew was engaging in a very fine troll for those of us
who reflexively respond to exaggerated and absurd claims from sycophantic
Wing Chun followers.
A very fine troll indeed.
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
Let's not lose sight that WC has a lot of good stuff. It's their methods of
training and exaggerated claims that are troll-worthy. In the same way the
WC guys should realize that many of us trained in WC in the past, maybe
longer than they did. Just make sure your claims are backed up by actual
experimentation and you're not just parrotting what you've heard.
-B
Rabid Weasel
> Let's not lose sight that WC has a lot of good stuff.
Sure. I've recommended WC to at least two people who asked me for MA
advice. Based on what they said they wanted out of MA and their
particular personalities, I recommended WC for them.
We've got one of the better WC schools here in Huber Heights (a 'burb of
Dayton).
> It's their methods of
> training and exaggerated claims that are troll-worthy.
Particularly the exaggerated claims, in this case.
Note that I did specify sycophantic WC followers. :-)
> In the same way the
> WC guys should realize that many of us trained in WC in the past, maybe
> longer than they did. Just make sure your claims are backed up by actual
> experimentation and you're not just parrotting what you've heard.
Yup.
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
<lawson@NO31404SPAM+dayton.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 08:40:18 -0500, Badger_s wrote:
>
>> Let's not lose sight that WC has a lot of good stuff.
>
>Sure. I've recommended WC to at least two people who asked me for MA
>advice. Based on what they said they wanted out of MA and their
>particular personalities, I recommended WC for them.
>
>We've got one of the better WC schools here in Huber Heights (a 'burb of
>Dayton).
I think the key is to learn to recognize good concepts. It can take a
fairly broad background to be able to do that, though. I like to think I
can see key concepts in things and work through the dross.
In addition some things, though ultimately not the 'truth', may need to be
experienced and worked through; for instance the energy drills in FMA.
Learn them, do them and then put them in their place and move on.
But, I think, to take others' opinions and skip them altogether may be a
mistake; it's pretty easy in this area to outsmart yourself - I'm always
checking for that - heh and finding I missed something.
Beyond knowing something there's a level of truth above that and it's being
able to teach a thing. Once you start trying to teach something you run
into problems and preconceptions and sometimes have to start over again.
>
>> It's their methods of
>> training and exaggerated claims that are troll-worthy.
>
>Particularly the exaggerated claims, in this case.
Well consider if we didn't know who BL was, nor any of his ideas, and
through some kind of time warp he popped on here and started touting some
of his abilities or beliefs. I bet a lot of people would start dissing and
taunting because what he might say would be out of context.
Certainly Xiaou isn't BL, and it's pretty easy to see he's caught in a bit
of a time warp.
I'm going through some tapes right now that most people think is mostly BS
and laughable. However given the current context and what we know about
real fighting I think you can go back through some things from the past and
reexamine and maybe functionalize some of what is being said in light of
the new information.
>Note that I did specify sycophantic WC followers. :-)
Yeh, wasn't talking about you, per se. ;-)
>
>> In the same way the
>> WC guys should realize that many of us trained in WC in the past, maybe
>> longer than they did. Just make sure your claims are backed up by actual
>> experimentation and you're not just parrotting what you've heard.
>
>Yup.
For instance I tried to give Xiaou a hint about the 'real' JKD, but looks
like he blew that off. ;-p
-B
Rabid Weasel
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:02:59 GMT, Rabid Weasel
> <lawson@NO31404SPAM+dayton.net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 08:40:18 -0500, Badger_s wrote:
>>
>>> Let's not lose sight that WC has a lot of good stuff.
>>
>>Sure. I've recommended WC to at least two people who asked me for MA
>>advice. Based on what they said they wanted out of MA and their
>>particular personalities, I recommended WC for them.
>>
>>We've got one of the better WC schools here in Huber Heights (a 'burb of
>>Dayton).
>
> I think the key is to learn to recognize good concepts. It can take a
> fairly broad background to be able to do that, though. I like to think I
> can see key concepts in things and work through the dross.
Sure. The problem is sometimes, though the concepts may be good, there
are occasionally *better* suited concepts or the application of said good
concepts takes too much effort to functionalize. Also some of the
concepts may not be applicable to every instance. Stuff like that. For
instance, Aikido's standard "evasion" concept works *great* against a
committed, full bore, attack. That makes it perfect for applications such
as certain sword/stick/weapon work. Ideal. It also makes it ideal for
dealing with people who train the same concept down from weapons into
empty hand (a fair number and for a good reason, it's handy to have an
over-riding concept to tie all of your ranges together). It's such a
great concept that you ignore it at your peril. Unfortunately, it works
less well against uncommitted, short, probing attacks. Modern Boxing,
certain short (FMA-ish) knife, etc. Yet most Aikido players I've met
don't understand that the "evasion" concept plays a limited role in that
it's not applicable to *everything*, *everywhere*, *every time*.
Sure, it works *dandy* against a thrust such as from a Jo or a spear. But
it sucks against a jab or a rabbit punch. But many Aikidoka don't know it
because they're blindly following what the Instructor says (who's only
doing the same thing) and haven't yet learned that not all concepts are
universal (and maybe never will).
I will say that an irrimi/tenkan, staples of Aikido, are nearly ideal for
a haymaker.
>>> It's their methods of
>>> training and exaggerated claims that are troll-worthy.
>>
>>Particularly the exaggerated claims, in this case.
>
> Well consider if we didn't know who BL was, nor any of his ideas, and
> through some kind of time warp he popped on here and started touting some
> of his abilities or beliefs. I bet a lot of people would start dissing and
> taunting because what he might say would be out of context.
One of the shortcomings of Usenet (and forums in general) I guess.
> Certainly Xiaou isn't BL, and it's pretty easy to see he's caught in a bit
> of a time warp.
I think it's more than that. Not to be overly harsh to an obviously
polite and pleasant guy, but I think he's self-deluded. His "training"
was short, stunted, and isolated and detached and he judges not only his
own accomplishments but that of others through a distortion wherein he
believes he's truly achieved *great* advances and breakthroughs. All
while deliberately and pointedly ignoring nearly continuous efforts to
point out how limited his experience is, how unspectacular his
"accomplishments" and "advances" were, and to disabuse him of the insular
notions under which he determinedly labors.
Sure, the time-warp is there, but it goes beyond that. If it wasn't for
his politeness and earnest presentation I think that most would have
completely written him off. As it is, he's downright likable.
> I'm going through some tapes right now that most people think is mostly BS
> and laughable. However given the current context and what we know about
> real fighting I think you can go back through some things from the past and
> reexamine and maybe functionalize some of what is being said in light of
> the new information.
Sure. Sounds good to me. :-)
>>> In the same way the
>>> WC guys should realize that many of us trained in WC in the past, maybe
>>> longer than they did. Just make sure your claims are backed up by actual
>>> experimentation and you're not just parrotting what you've heard.
>>
>>Yup.
>
> For instance I tried to give Xiaou a hint about the 'real' JKD, but looks
> like he blew that off. ;-p
Like I said, insular, deluded, and detached.
But still fun. :-)
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
<lawson@NO31404SPAM+dayton.net> wrote:
>> Well consider if we didn't know who BL was, nor any of his ideas, and
>> through some kind of time warp he popped on here and started touting some
>> of his abilities or beliefs. I bet a lot of people would start dissing and
>> taunting because what he might say would be out of context.
>
>One of the shortcomings of Usenet (and forums in general) I guess.
Well, sure, but what I'm trying to get across is that some things are out
of context and therefore subjected to ridicule unduly. Best to add a
measure of patience.
>> Certainly Xiaou isn't BL, and it's pretty easy to see he's caught in a bit
>> of a time warp.
>
>I think it's more than that. Not to be overly harsh to an obviously
>polite and pleasant guy, but I think he's self-deluded. His "training"
>was short, stunted, and isolated and detached and he judges not only his
>own accomplishments but that of others through a distortion wherein he
>believes he's truly achieved *great* advances and breakthroughs. All
>while deliberately and pointedly ignoring nearly continuous efforts to
>point out how limited his experience is, how unspectacular his
>"accomplishments" and "advances" were, and to disabuse him of the insular
>notions under which he determinedly labors.
Most everyone has experienced the big fish-little pond phenomena. Trouble
is if you haven't it is somewhat difficult to get across. ;-)
>Sure, the time-warp is there, but it goes beyond that. If it wasn't for
>his politeness and earnest presentation I think that most would have
>completely written him off. As it is, he's downright likable.
>
>
>> I'm going through some tapes right now that most people think is mostly BS
>> and laughable. However given the current context and what we know about
>> real fighting I think you can go back through some things from the past and
>> reexamine and maybe functionalize some of what is being said in light of
>> the new information.
>
>Sure. Sounds good to me. :-)
>
>
>>>> In the same way the
>>>> WC guys should realize that many of us trained in WC in the past, maybe
>>>> longer than they did. Just make sure your claims are backed up by actual
>>>> experimentation and you're not just parrotting what you've heard.
>>>
>>>Yup.
>>
>> For instance I tried to give Xiaou a hint about the 'real' JKD, but looks
>> like he blew that off. ;-p
>
>Like I said, insular, deluded, and detached.
>
>But still fun. :-)
Not unlike some of the posters here, though they have a lot more experience
there's still some delusion going on. Even some that have proved their
stuff evidence some of that; in fact, I'd say that the more successful you
are the more insular you become. After all if your stuff works why take it
out of the familiar, why put it up against something that may rock your
world view. Ryan Parker is one who tried to do that and it rocked him to
the point that he's dropped completely out of sight - he might even have
had a breakdown of some sort.
Anyway...what you said.
-B
Rabid Weasel
> Best to add a measure of patience.
Easier said, as a general rule. ;-)
> Most everyone has experienced the big fish-little pond phenomena.
I love going to ISMAC. But I instantly become a "little fish" when I do.
It's humbling, which sucks but is good at the same time.
> Trouble is if you haven't it is somewhat difficult to get across. ;-)
True 'nuff.
>>>>> In the same way the
>>>>> WC guys should realize that many of us trained in WC in the past, maybe
>>>>> longer than they did. Just make sure your claims are backed up by actual
>>>>> experimentation and you're not just parrotting what you've heard.
>>>>
>>>>Yup.
>>>
>>> For instance I tried to give Xiaou a hint about the 'real' JKD, but looks
>>> like he blew that off. ;-p
>>
>>Like I said, insular, deluded, and detached.
>>
>>But still fun. :-)
>
> Not unlike some of the posters here, though they have a lot more experience
> there's still some delusion going on. Even some that have proved their
> stuff evidence some of that; in fact, I'd say that the more successful you
> are the more insular you become. After all if your stuff works why take it
> out of the familiar, why put it up against something that may rock your
> world view. Ryan Parker is one who tried to do that and it rocked him to
> the point that he's dropped completely out of sight - he might even have
> had a breakdown of some sort.
>
> Anyway...what you said.
Good point.
Wayne Dobson
news:o1r1t1501jkoaboe9...@4ax.com...
>
> Rather than spewing about it, I'll just put it up for the group's
> comments...
>
> http://fileserver.uechi-ryu.com/videos/Bill_sCobraFist.mov
Hahaha.... Hahahaha...
--
Wayne
"Aka Dobbie the House Elf."
xiaou2
> Hey Xiaou! Do you think comments about Royce Gracie's lack of skill and
> excuses like "My art is too deadly for an actual fight" will entitle
> you to any respect from us?
What makes you think I care if you respect me or not?
However.. what does it say about a person who spouts off like a madman
with filthy gutter level drivel? It says, that person lacks self control,
is mentally just a child. No patience. No tolarance. Self-Righteous. No
self respect. Purely Low class.
Is a post like that something he'd like his wife and daughter to read?!
Come on. Grow up and get some flippin class.
If You 'scary' are offended.. well, I guess that shows how
confident you are in your heros, system, and maybe personal ability. So
easily angered and demanding proof... because deep down, you are really
just insecure, and frightened, at the very ideas presented.
Its like people who are affriad of homosexuality, become violent and
attack them. Yet, funny enough, many of those guys are actually "in
the closet".
Let me correct you in my own quotes. I said, Hes skilled at what he
does... but not very skilled compared to other martial artist
out there now, and throughout history.
A master of a severly Limited style isnt much of a master IMOP. Id say
that there are people in this very group that have more overall combined
knowledge and skills than he has or ever will have. These people studying
multiple arts, arts with much more depth and skill requirments.
If you wish to remain stuck in the one style, and remain limited in
abilities and depth of knowledge.. then thats your problem.
I personally do not Idolize any one man, nor any one way of doing
something. While I do heavily push Wing Chun, because of its innovative
and vastly superior ways of doing things.. Its not the only art that has
great things in it. (In fact, much of Wing Chun is borrowed from styles
like Snake and Crane.. and is reduced in its depths of either of those)
And, the more knowledge and experinece you have.. the better a fighter you
can become.
> That's the lamest McDojo excuse there is.
> If you want to show up at some BJJ club to prove your statements,
> we're waiting.
> Till then you can go on playing with you're wooden man and we'll
> just keep on laughing at you.
>
> Scary.
Laugh all you want, but Im not the type of guy that enjoys hurting people
just to say "I told you so". You can find out your weaknesses the hard
way.. IE: if some group of thugs decides they want to use you as a soccor
ball.
Or, you can see what all the fuss is about. Half a year of wc will boost
your skill level well beyond what you thought was even possible.
You can patch your weaknesses.. or stay ignorant in thinking that you dont
have any.
Anyway, back to the subject... reaction to a post in such a mannor is a
showing of internal childishness. The joke really wasnt the mockery of
the WC system - but how badly GDS reacted to it.
Controlling the emotions within, is an art of itself.. and I dare say, a
more important art to master in this lifetime.
Robert Low
> However.. what does it say about a person who spouts off like a madman
> with filthy gutter level drivel? It says, that person lacks self control,
> is mentally just a child. No patience. No tolarance. Self-Righteous. No
> self respect. Purely Low class.
Hey, I resent that last bit. I have all the qualities of patientce,
tolerance and all that that you could possibly wish for, together
with humility.
Wayne Dobson
> "Fraser Johnston" <fra...@jcis.com.au> wrote
> > There is no such thing as a pure grappler or striker in MMA today.
>
> well; give that lad a Gold Star in today's copybook.
> Give it another fifty years, and a system will begin to emerge; favored
> 'styles', a curriculum,.....
> Techniques will be 'linked'; all 'ranges of combat' will be addressed;
> methods for solo study and refinement will be taught, specialized drills
and
> exercise equipment will be formulated.
Here is where Chas has completely lost the plot. What will happen is that
the whole thing will be largely sanitised, completely commercialised and
fighting methods will be "lost."
Wayne Dobson
news:43j8mmF...@individual.net...
>
> "Chas" <chascl...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:cIKdnZe0cbg...@comcast.com...
> > "Fraser Johnston" <fra...@jcis.com.au> wrote
> >> There is no such thing as a pure grappler or striker in MMA today.
> >
> > well; give that lad a Gold Star in today's copybook.
> > Give it another fifty years, and a system will begin to emerge; favored
> > 'styles', a curriculum,.....
> > Techniques will be 'linked'; all 'ranges of combat' will be addressed;
> > methods for solo study and refinement will be taught, specialized drills
> > and exercise equipment will be formulated.
>
So, what is your favorite specialised drill?
Wayne Dobson
news:X1XAf.224665$V7.3...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...> news:1137956903....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...> >> news:1137896468.3...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >>
> >>
> >> > I agree -- though with the right type of practice, you can penetrate
so
> >> > deep through the "soft meat" that you can easily reach -- and
break --
> >> > the bone. This is how the top WC guys easily escape the Gracy (sic)
> >> > guard.
> >>
> >> Which WT guys are these....the ones that are facing Gracies and easily
> >> escaping guard with their bone-breaking strikes?
> >
> > not exactly. I don't know of any top WT guy fighting an actual member
> > of the Gracy (you spelled it wrong, btw) family per se.
>
> Hey, Matthew, are you talking about the Gracy family from Boise Idaho, or
> are you talking about the Gracie family from Brazil?
>
>
> > But I do know (because I was there) that on many occasions, "badass"
> > Gracy judo fighters come into our school challenge shifu.
>
> Bullshit.
>
> I only saw
> > the leg break happen on one occasion when shifu got mad after the Gracy
> > man taunting him -- usually he just causes such blinding pain to the
> > leg nerves that they go unconscious from it, wake up totally
> > disoriented, and leave quickly. But this time the Gracy man insult his
> > family. Bad idea--biu jee strike BOOM! Gracey man's leg broken about 2
> > seconds later, hehehe.
>
> Bullshit.
>
> >
> > This is why a lot of the top WC guys work as butchers--no need to use
> > knives, they can quickly and easily butcher the animal with biu jee
> > strikes.
>
> Bullshit.
>
> >>
> >> Need some names & dates here.....or, heaven forbid, would this be
another
> >> Xiaou ?(ma myth)
> >
> > I don't remember any specific dates, and the Gracy practioners are too
> > ashamed/embarassed to leave their names after losing so quickly. My
> > shifu's name is Bruce Li--a top student of the original Bruce Lee.
>
clue
> what you are talking about.
Fine arguments, throughout.
Wayne Dobson
> news:ZfYAf.224714$V7.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
> >
> > Ah, well done Matthew!
> >
> > GDS
> >
> > P&M
>
>
> lol That was too funny :) Guess now you have to Read the posts before
> answering them ;) :)
Hahahaha...
Matthew
@hotmail.com says...
>
> > Hey Xiaou! Do you think comments about Royce Gracie's lack of skill and
> > excuses like "My art is too deadly for an actual fight" will entitle
> > you to any respect from us?
>
> What makes you think I care if you respect me or not?
>
you feel the need to respond to such emails and defend yourself.
Matthew
--
I return to lurking, waiting for the elderly to pass by...for they make
better targets...
Fraser Johnston
"Wayne Dobson" <nos...@noaddress.com> wrote in message
news:FlQBf.194349$D47....@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
Takedowns.
Fraser
Scary
However.. what does it say about a person who spouts off like a madman
with filthy gutter level drivel? It says, that person lacks self
control,
is mentally just a child. No patience. No tolarance. Self-Righteous. No
self respect. Purely Low class.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scary-Let's just say I don't disrespect you I just don't agree
with some of the things you've said and think you need to prove them.
(It's not a challenge to a fight just a suggestion that you try BJJ
and see for yourself)
I've trained in Kung Fu including WT at one time, I don't care to
get into the merits or demerits of that style only to point out that
I've trained in BJJ and WT and know that a grappler has a huge
advantage over someone with only WT training. It's no slur on WT its
just the truth.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is a post like that something he'd like his wife and daughter to read?!
Come on. Grow up and get some flippin class.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scary-I don't recall using any naughty words? If you mean I should
be polite and not challenge you on your comments than you're on the
wrong news group. It's why we're here! Out in the world I'm the
very picture of discretion and politeness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If You 'scary' are offended.. well, I guess that shows how
confident you are in your heros, system, and maybe personal ability. So
easily angered and demanding proof... because deep down, you are really
just insecure, and frightened, at the very ideas presented.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scary-I'm not offended, and Royce Gracie is a nice guy and a good
teacher but I don't hero worship him. I respect him.
And yes. I do have confidence in BJJ, and I'm not at all insecure
about that!
If you say there is no skill involved in BJJ and that a WT fighter can
beat one up with Chain Punches and knee kicks! Don't we have a right
to ask you to prove it? That's just scientific if you don't do that
then your statement is just a matter of faith not fact.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its like people who are affriad of homosexuality, become violent and
attack them. Yet, funny enough, many of those guys are actually "in
the closet".
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scary-Here a switch! Bjj guys and grapplers in general usually get
accused of being gay! Now you brand us homophobic!
I'd have thought that guys who like to roll around on the mat other
with sweaty guys would be pretty secure with their sexuality
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me correct you in my own quotes. I said, Hes skilled at what he
does... but not very skilled compared to other martial artist
out there now, and throughout history.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scary-There are many other BJJ guys and MMA's guys who are better
then Royce Gracie,- Probably but I very much doubt that there is anyone
who trains exclusively in WT who could beat him.
I've got videos of him going through Kung Fu practitioners like
pitbull through a bunny.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A master of a severly Limited style isnt much of a master IMOP. Id say
that there are people in this very group that have more overall
combined
knowledge and skills than he has or ever will have. These people
studying
multiple arts, arts with much more depth and skill requirements.
If you wish to remain stuck in the one style, and remain limited in
abilities and depth of knowledge.. then thats your problem.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scary-Ah! "Severely limited style", now who's being insulting
and disrespectful? But I don't care what's said about BJJ I'm not
precious about it.
I started training in Martial Arts at the age of Ten, and over the
years I've trained in a lot of different styles and a lot of what
certain Sifus and Senseis told me when I was training with them I know
now to be untrue.
A lot of training is contrived and ritualized and functions on certain
assumptions which are never tested. Belief becomes a matter of Faith in
these schools.
The two most important pieces of wisdom I can give you are "Question
everything, especially yourself" and "If it seems too good to be
true then it probably isn't!".
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
personally do not Idolize any one man, nor any one way of doing
something. While I do heavily push Wing Chun, because of its innovative
and vastly superior ways of doing things.. Its not the only art that
has
great things in it. (In fact, much of Wing Chun is borrowed from styles
like Snake and Crane.. and is reduced in its depths of either of those)
And, the more knowledge and experinece you have.. the better a fighter
you
can become.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scary- Good for you! I've got nothing against WT, It's just a
proven fact that a grappler can pretty much shut a WT proponent down. I
know this because I've put gloves on and tried all the stuff you say
would work and here's a news flash! It doesn't
I'm not saying this to be disrespectful, one is a standup style and
other is a grappling style, so why compare or separate them if BJJ
grappling technique works so well then its just something else out
there for you to learn if you want.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Laugh all you want, but Im not the type of guy that enjoys hurting
people
just to say "I told you so". You can find out your weaknesses the hard
way.. IE: if some group of thugs decides they want to use you as a
soccor
ball.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scary- I seem to recall you saying that if you did fight your WT
would be so deadly that someone would either be hurt or killed.
I could really hurt someone if I wanted to but I don't because I'm
the one in control of my technique.
I've traveled through some of the most dangerous places in the world,
I've been attack and ever stabbed.
I've got a lot more tricks up my sleeve then just BJJ, last year I
choked out a huge South African stand over man and threw him out into
the street. He's buddies backed off real quick.
And no I didn't get pleasure from it I was hyped up and scared to
death.
You think because a BJJist has got to ground and is therefore
vulnerable to multiples? Well you fight the way the situation dictates.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or, you can see what all the fuss is about. Half a year of wc will
boost
your skill level well beyond what you thought was even possible.
You can patch your weaknesses.. or stay ignorant in thinking that you
dont
have any.
Anyway, back to the subject... reaction to a post in such a mannor is a
showing of internal childishness. The joke really wasnt the mockery of
the WC system - but how badly GDS reacted to it.
Controlling the emotions within, is an art of itself.. and I dare say,
a
more important art to master in this lifetime.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scary- Xiaou! As I said before I have trained in WC, I'm probably a
lot older and experienced then you think I am.
I could be a Sifu or a Sensei in about 4 different styles and yet I
chose to be just a BJJ student.
I'm not mocking the WC system I'm only stating that before making
comments as the effectiveness of BJJ you should at least have trained
in it.
GDS reacted to it the way BJJ and MMA guys react to challenges, the
culture within these groups is to accept and make challenges.
I've got no emotional hang ups and I don't easily loose my temper
(Except if there's bad refereeing)
If you love WC then stick with it, we're just telling you that a BJJ
blue belt with 3 years training could destroy any WC opponent. It's
the Gods own truth, if you doubt me go to a BJJ class.
Thx Scary.
xiaou2
Scary, You responded to a post that was directed at GDS, not you.
Thats what the below was all about:
> What makes you think I care if you respect me or not?
> However.. what does it say about a person who spouts off like a madman
> with filthy gutter level drivel? It says, that person lacks self
> control,
> is mentally just a child. No patience. No tolarance. Self-Righteous.
> No
>
> self respect. Purely Low class.
> I've trained in BJJ and WT and know that a grappler has a huge
> advantage over someone with only WT training. It's no slur on WT its
> just the truth.
Ok, well, lets start with: How far into the WC system did you get? How
many years training in it?
Your truth is flawed according to me and my experiences. Maybe your punch
power and accuracy was lacking.
> --------------------- Scary-I don't recall using any naughty words?
Again, this was for GDS. Somehow you responded to it for some reason.
> you mean I should be polite and not challenge you on your comments
> than you're on the wrong news group. It's why we're here! Out in the
> world I'm the very picture of discretion and politeness.
----------------
I have no problem with a challenge to my views. I do have a problem with
people like GDS who offer no real information... only mocking comments and
use of foul language, imagry..ect. It stinks the place up, and offers no
progression.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Scary-I'm not offended, and Royce Gracie is a nice guy and a good
> teacher but I don't hero worship him. I respect him.
> And yes. I do have confidence in BJJ, and I'm not at all insecure
> about that!
> If you say there is no skill involved in BJJ and that a WT fighter can
> beat one up with Chain Punches and knee kicks! Don't we have a right
> to ask you to prove it? That's just scientific if you don't do that
> then your statement is just a matter of faith not fact.
First off I will say right off the bat that He leaves a bad taste in
my mouth. After watching a UFC fight where him or one of his brothers had
a guy tapping out (or maybe the Ref had called it. memmorys a little
foggy).. he broke the guys arm anyway. Not very nice at all IMOP.
I never said there was NO skill in it. Merely that I didnt consider him
very skilled compared to many other artist out there. As Ive said..
BJJ is too limited shallow an art imop.
Ive already stated that Ive fought Jujitsu guys before. And every one
that came in my range was met with a light forehead punch that stunned them
into non movemnt for a several seconds. Had I used anywhere near full
power.. that would have been an easy KO.. or a concussion, or much worse.
The stun alone left me with the time to execute countless blows. Had that
been a real fight.. he wouldnt have gotten up... unless someone carried him
to the ambulance.
Since I did not follow up.. and since I didnt use anywhere near full
power.. he was able to manipulate me on the ground skillfully. These guys
were good at what they knew. I found out later that the one I fought
intentionally injured 3 other artist that same day. I contemplated
returning and teaching him a lesson about power restraint. I think the
word may have gotten out, because the next time I went there for an open
brawl.. he was very much changed.. very polite.
Yet, this matters not to you, because You didnt see it. And while it was
captured on video.. it was on the instuctors tapes, and not mine.
A perfected technique as a punch can in fact take a target out with a
single hit. A good kick can also take a person out of commission. Having
the skill to avoid a grapple also adds in. Just because you havent seen
it, or, you didnt perfect your strikeing abilities, does not mean it dosnt
exist.
Gracies just came up with a brilliant solution to entry. Most people
never train the lower gate against a full body dive. The time it took
people to realize what was happening, was too long, and thus too late.
However, As Ive stated.. get the same guy to try and take you down 20
times in a row. After only a few times, you should be able to target the
weaknesses in thier entry method. Knowledge is power.. and the 'shock'
that won them so many fights.. is now fading. People know about it, and
have already developed the Sprawl. However, there are much more damaging
things that can be done than a simple sprawl. If you are/were a striker,
you should be able to see this potential.
Have I said WC is invincible? Nope. Ive merely started that its methods
will give you a more advanced fighting ability, in a lot less time than in
other arts. That the techniques actually work great at full speed,
power..and can be realistically used in street combat. (where many other
TMA's have a higher failure rate)
Also, I studied Wing Chun, not wing tsun. While simular, Im not exactly
sure how your training varried. All I know is that some Tsun schools
overuse the chain punch, and should spend more time with the many other
varried attack types as well.
WC is a great system, and has spread out very fast since its recent public
teaching from Yip Man. In some ways, this has become a bad thing, as the
style has started to alter from branch to branch, sometimes in bad ways.
However, once youve learned the concepts, its fairly easy to figure out
the real truths when used in many combat sessions.
> Scary-Here a switch! Bjj guys and grapplers in general usually get
> accused of being gay! Now you brand us homophobic!
> I'd have thought that guys who like to roll around on the mat other
> with sweaty guys would be pretty secure with their sexuality
--------
Heh, not if they are gay or Bi :) But really, I was just trying to
point an example of how extreme reaction can point to something. I guess
the example wasnt a good one for this paticular argument :) lol
---------
> better then Royce Gracie,- Probably but I very much doubt that there
> is anyone who trains exclusively in WT who could beat him.
> I've got videos of him going through Kung Fu practitioners like
> pitbull through a bunny.
---------
Again, with a technique that was new and unusual. Im not so sure that hed
be so fortunate now. We also know, that many people do not represent an
art to the best of its potential at times. Basically, the real good guys
are teaching rather than beating down others to proove something. The guys
who are soso get into scraps and all the sudden people think that the
system is crap... when in reality, its the guys fault for being bad at it,
or lacking the power needed..ect.
That said, I believe my teacher said Phillip Holder took a gracie student
up on a challange at a military base where the guy was trash talking other
styles. Needless to say, when Phillip wanted him to proove it.. the guy
all the sudden got nervous and said 'here, now?' Ending up with the BJJ
guy beaten up pretty good.
Believe what you will, but no style is undefeatable. One technique in
the right time.. and your in trouble.
However, I do agree on one thing.. that there are a lot of WC guys who
are severely lacking. I can see many of these guys getting took out
easily.
> ------------------------- Scary-Ah! "Severely limited style", now
> who's being insulting and disrespectful?
Not meant as disrespect. Just the truth. For example, Little or NO
striking, is pretty limited IMOP. Conditioning? Breathing? Stretching?
While I do not know everything about BJJ.. I can guess that there are a
ton of things Not in it.. that are in almost all other older, mature,
deeper arts.
> The two most important pieces of wisdom I can give you are "Question
> everything, especially yourself" and "If it seems too good to be
> true then it probably isn't!".
Well, those are good words to go by. I share much the same
philosophy. I especially like the 2nd one.. Had I Not thought like that,
then I never would have learned the 'explosive punching' technique. Its
an open mind, dedication, and hard work that get you the serious results.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Scary- Good for you! I've got nothing against WT, It's just a
> proven fact that a grappler can pretty much shut a WT proponent down.
> I know this because I've put gloves on and tried all the stuff you say
> would work and here's a news flash! It doesn't
Ok, first problem... you used gloves. Real fights were the fist hits
WITHOUT gloves is a much more damaging and deadly. Also, WC hand
techniques are slowed and hard to perform with the size and bulk of a glove
(even the smaller ones).
Did you use Biu Gee? (have them wear raqetball glasses) Front Kicks?
Knees, Elbows when close?
Maybe you gave up too easily. That and maybe there were other issues
with how you were doing things.. or how you were taught.
> I'm not saying this to be disrespectful, one is a standup style and
> other is a grappling style, so why compare or separate them if BJJ
> grappling technique works so well then its just something else out
> there for you to learn if you want.
Well thats my opinion all along. Ive stated it before. IMOP, I say learn
WC for standup protection.. and then BJJ, should you fall to the ground.
However, there are many here who think BJJ will work well in every
situation.. when that is not really true at all. This is basically where
all the arguments stem from.
> ------------------------------------ Scary- I seem to recall you
> saying that if you did fight your WT would be so deadly that someone
> would either be hurt or killed. I could really hurt someone if I
> wanted to but I don't because I'm the one in control of my technique.
Sure, I also control my techniques power.. but, heres the deal.. When you
are out to """PROOVE""" your art.. you cant use non-leathal or non-
damaging techniques. That will allow the opponent a greater chance to
overcome you, or regain composure after a strike and concour you.
In a typical real life event, I try to talk a person down from a fight.
Ive succeded in that before. If he would have shot a punch, I would have
blocked several before deciding to launch my own.. and even at that.. just
enough power to give him enough taste of pain to decide to walk away.
> You think because a BJJist has got to ground and is therefore
> vulnerable to multiples? Well you fight the way the situation
> dictates.
If you know more that BJJ, than you are more than a BJJ'ist. BJJ on its
own is less effective to multilples than most all standup arts. The reason
is physics. You can move and dodge faster standing, than you can when on
the ground.
I say, Im glad you got away with that choke.. however, I wouldnt rely on
others fear of you beating the bigger guy to detur them from attacking you
as well.
> ---------------------------------- Scary- Xiaou! As I said before I
> have trained in WC, I'm probably a lot older and experienced then you
> think I am. I could be a Sifu or a Sensei in about 4 different styles
> and yet I chose to be just a BJJ student.
> I'm not mocking the WC system I'm only stating that before making
> comments as the effectiveness of BJJ you should at least have trained
> in it.
Im free to comment on anything based on my analyisis of what Ive seen,
and the people I had fought. I can deduce a great deal from both of
those... includind the knowledge of what things BJJ does Not do.
I don't easily loose my temper
> (Except if there's bad refereeing)
Understandable :)
> If you love WC then stick with it, we're just telling you that a BJJ
> blue belt with 3 years training could destroy any WC opponent. It's
> the Gods own truth, if you doubt me go to a BJJ class.
Less to do with love, and more to do with 'it works great'.
And Im saying a master of BJJ wouldnt last 2 minutes with 3+ guys
attacking him at the same time...
As for the one on one.. that depends on the quality of the WC guy IMOP.
Ray
LOL!
Rabid Weasel
>> I've trained in BJJ and WT and know that a grappler has a huge
>> advantage over someone with only WT training. It's no slur on WT its
>> just the truth.
>
> Ok, well, lets start with: How far into the WC system did you get? How
> many years training in it?
Didn't you say you'd only gotten 2 years into it yourself?!?!
>> you mean I should be polite and not challenge you on your comments
>> than you're on the wrong news group. It's why we're here! Out in the
>> world I'm the very picture of discretion and politeness.
>
> ----------------
> I have no problem with a challenge to my views. I do have a problem with
> people like GDS who offer no real information... only mocking comments and
> use of foul language, imagry..ect. It stinks the place up, and offers no
> progression.
Not everyone comes to RMA for "progression." For some, it's just a place
to hang out; a "clubhouse" for those interested in martial arts.
> I never said there was NO skill in it. Merely that I didnt consider him
> very skilled compared to many other artist out there. As Ive said..
> BJJ is too limited shallow an art imop.
No one questions that this is your opinion. The questions are more along
the lines of, "Given that you have no experience in most any Martial Arts
in general and BJJ in specific, and that your experience in WC was
extremely brief, why should anyone (including you) think your opinion on a
BJJ guy's skills have any value?"
I mean, seriously, it's like some guy questioning a Mechanical Engineer's
math skills on the basis that he took high school Algebra and thought he
was pretty good at it. You just don't have the frame of reference.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you need to understand how you're coming
off sounding.
> Ive already stated that Ive fought Jujitsu guys before. And every one
> that came in my range was met with a light forehead punch that stunned them
> into non movemnt for a several seconds. Had I used anywhere near full
> power.. that would have been an easy KO.. or a concussion, or much worse.
> The stun alone left me with the time to execute countless blows. Had that
> been a real fight.. he wouldnt have gotten up... unless someone carried him
> to the ambulance.
Given that people take very powerful forehead shots in boxing and other
striking arts all the time without the effect you're claiming (not to
mention the classic "forehead smash"), I don't think most anyone is going
to accept this claim.
> Since I did not follow up.. and since I didnt use anywhere near full
> power.. he was able to manipulate me on the ground skillfully. These guys
> were good at what they knew. I found out later that the one I fought
> intentionally injured 3 other artist that same day. I contemplated
> returning and teaching him a lesson about power restraint. I think the
> word may have gotten out, because the next time I went there for an open
> brawl.. he was very much changed.. very polite.
Are you an aspiring novelist?
> Gracies just came up with a brilliant solution to entry. Most people
> never train the lower gate against a full body dive.
You know, except for every Jr. High wrestling program in the world.
> However, As Ive stated.. get the same guy to try and take you down 20
> times in a row. After only a few times, you should be able to target the
> weaknesses in thier entry method. Knowledge is power.. and the 'shock'
> that won them so many fights.. is now fading. People know about it, and
> have already developed the Sprawl.
The Sprawl is centuries old. This ain't exactly new stuff.
> Have I said WC
...
> Also, I studied Wing Chun,
...
> not wing tsun.
...
> All I know is that some Tsun schools
...
> WC is a great system,
...
Man, it's a good thing I don't drink!
>> better then Royce Gracie,- Probably but I very much doubt that there
>> is anyone who trains exclusively in WT who could beat him.
>> I've got videos of him going through Kung Fu practitioners like
>> pitbull through a bunny.
>
> ---------
> Again, with a technique that was new and unusual.
Not really that new, though I'll give you "unusual" in the context of what
was generally considered "Martial Arts" at the time. Wish I'd been paying
attention when it happened. As it was, it was just something that I
heard about peripherally as some sort of "tough man" sporting event.
A little bit of research will tell you that the general concepts are
undeniably very old.
> That said, I believe my teacher said Phillip Holder took a gracie student
> up on a challange at a military base where the guy was trash talking other
> styles. Needless to say, when Phillip wanted him to proove it.. the guy
> all the sudden got nervous and said 'here, now?' Ending up with the BJJ
> guy beaten up pretty good.
Hearsay.
> there are a lot of WC guys
Good thing I'm just drinking tea.
> Not meant as disrespect. Just the truth. For example, Little or NO
> striking, is pretty limited IMOP. Conditioning? Breathing? Stretching?
> While I do not know everything about BJJ.. I can guess that there are a
> ton of things Not in it.. that are in almost all other older, mature,
> deeper arts.
The roots of BJJ are verifiably 1500 years old at a minimum. BJJ derived
from Judo which derived from classic japanese JuJitsu (JJJ) which is
traceable at least 1500 years, if not more.
> Also, WC hand
<slurp> I am getting *such* a caffeine buzz.
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
> Have I said WC is invincible? Nope. Ive merely started that its methods
>will give you a more advanced fighting ability, in a lot less time than in
>other arts. That the techniques actually work great at full speed,
>power..and can be realistically used in street combat. (where many other
>TMA's have a higher failure rate)
>
> Also, I studied Wing Chun, not wing tsun. While simular, Im not exactly
>sure how your training varried. All I know is that some Tsun schools
>overuse the chain punch, and should spend more time with the many other
>varried attack types as well.
>
> WC is a great system, and has spread out very fast since its recent public
>teaching from Yip Man. In some ways, this has become a bad thing, as the
>style has started to alter from branch to branch, sometimes in bad ways.
So rather than talk about other styles, let's talk wing chun. Can you go
over what makes WC techniques have great speed? Is it just that they are
straight line 'shortest distance between points', or is there more to it.
On the Bil gee punch what makes it work - is there something special about
it that's different than a karate spear hand?
(Those that know the answer to these questions - I'm interested in Xiaou's
comments before you spill the beans! ;-p )
-B
Evil Shaman
"Rabid Weasel" <lawson@NO9494SPAM+dayton.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.01.26.14.11.10.965417@NO9494SPAM+dayton.net...
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:23:40 +0000, xiaou2 wrote:
>
>
>> Ive already stated that Ive fought Jujitsu guys before. And every one
>> that came in my range was met with a light forehead punch that stunned
>> them
>> into non movemnt for a several seconds. Had I used anywhere near full
>> power.. that would have been an easy KO.. or a concussion, or much worse.
>> The stun alone left me with the time to execute countless blows. Had
>> that
>> been a real fight.. he wouldnt have gotten up... unless someone carried
>> him
>> to the ambulance.
>
> Given that people take very powerful forehead shots in boxing and other
> striking arts all the time without the effect you're claiming (not to
> mention the classic "forehead smash"), I don't think most anyone is going
> to accept this claim.
>
Pfft...Boxers do not use true EXPLOSIVE PUNCHING POWER(tm). They merely
push the forehead instead of causing the brain to explode into a gelatinous
mass like the WC man does.
Bryce
Shuurai
Badger_s wrote:
> Rather than spewing about it, I'll just put it up for the group's
> comments...
Man, are you gullible. Snakes don't have fists.
Badger_s<Badger_s@south.com
...it's a blessing.
And a curse...
-B
Fraser Johnston
"Rabid Weasel" <lawson@NO9494SPAM+dayton.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.01.26.14.11.10.965417@NO9494SPAM+dayton.net...
khapidfhauihdf good post hic
Fraser
Matthew Freedman
xiaou2 wrote:
> Also, I studied Wing Chun, not wing tsun. While simular, Im not exactly
> sure how your training varried. All I know is that some Tsun schools
> overuse the chain punch, and should spend more time with the many other
> varried attack types as well.
>
> WC is a great system, and has spread out very fast since its recent public
> teaching from Yip Man. In some ways, this has become a bad thing, as the
> style has started to alter from branch to branch, sometimes in bad ways.
>
> However, once youve learned the concepts, its fairly easy to figure out
> the real truths when used in many combat sessions.
I have also studied WC for many years. In my experience, grapplers
ALWAYS leave their groin exposed. Whenever Gracy man try to take me
down, I was able to manuever their penises into my mouth with very
little effort.
Scary
merely
push the forehead instead of causing the brain to explode into a
gelatinous
mass like the WC man does.
Bryce
It's true that's why WC practitioners are never seen to use this
technique, to unleash such power upon the Universe would fracture the
very fabric of space-time. I think it was only ever-demonstrated once
in a remote location in Siberia in 1908! I believe the place was called
Tunguska.
http://www.s-d-g.freeserve.co.uk/tunguska.html
Scary.
Scary
Thats what the below was all about:
Scary-Well, this did!
"If You 'scary' are offended.. well, I guess that shows how
confident you are in your heros, system, and maybe personal ability. So
easily angered and demanding proof... because deep down, you are really
just insecure, and frightened, at the very ideas presented."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First off I will say right off the bat that He leaves a bad taste in
my mouth. After watching a UFC fight where him or one of his brothers
had
a guy tapping out (or maybe the Ref had called it. memmorys a little
foggy).. he broke the guys arm anyway. Not very nice at all IMOP.
Scary- Well their opponents did have to option to submit, at the Pan
Pacs I almost got my arm broken because both my arms were trapped and
the referee ignored my verbal submission, luckily the guy I was rolling
with heard me.
Some guys don't tap because of foolish pride and people also get hurt
because of bad refereeing, I hold no animosity to the guy who beat me
for fracturing my arm! I made a mistake and lost.
However I could murder that idiot ref it was he's job to ensure
safety.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I never said there was NO skill in it. Merely that I didnt consider him
very skilled compared to many other artist out there. As Ive said..
BJJ is too limited shallow an art imop.
---------------------------------------------------------
Scary-So what your saying is that a specialist grappling style
that's become the back bone of almost all MMA fighters is less
skillful then theatrical, ritualistic traditional Chinese styles?
I'd say it carries less baggage and it works and I know it works
because I can do it to opponents who are making a 100% effort to stop
me doing it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Ive already stated that Ive fought Jujitsu guys before. And every one
that came in my range was met with a light forehead punch that stunned
them
into non movemnt for a several seconds. Had I used anywhere near full
power.. that would have been an easy KO.. or a concussion, or much
worse.
The stun alone left me with the time to execute countless blows. Had
that
been a real fight.. he wouldnt have gotten up... unless someone carried
him
to the ambulance.
--------------------------------------------------------
Scary-Look Xiaou, we have NHB classes in which we have guys striking
who are Boxers or Muay Thai fighters.
I've been right hooked into the side of my head and knocked flat and
then I've had to get up and practice shooting at these guys again.
It's hard to knock someone out, even with the best boxers in the
world it only happens once in a blue moon.
-------------------------------------------------------
Since I did not follow up.. and since I didnt use anywhere near full
power.. he was able to manipulate me on the ground skillfully.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Scary-Take my word for it, if you don't have any training it
grappling he would have had you grounded and submitted you no matter
how hard you were hitting him.
So basically you got beaten, but you're justifying your failure with
feeble excuses.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A perfected technique as a punch can in fact take a target out with a
single hit. A good kick can also take a person out of commission.
Having
the skill to avoid a grapple also adds in. Just because you havent seen
it, or, you didnt perfect your strikeing abilities, does not mean it
dosnt
exist.
Gracies just came up with a brilliant solution to entry. Most people
never train the lower gate against a full body dive. The time it took
people to realize what was happening, was too long, and thus too late.
---------------------------------------------------------
Scary-In a perfect world all punches are knockouts and work with a
single hit!
Kicks always land in unprotected areas
And yes I can strike and I can kick like a mule, I've done a lot of
standup training in my lifetime.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Knowledge is power.. and the 'shock'
that won them so many fights.. is now fading. People know about it, and
have already developed the Sprawl. However, there are much more
damaging
things that can be done than a simple sprawl. If you are/were a
striker,
you should be able to see this potential.
------------------------------------------------
So you're now saying that you can defend against a shoot because you
know how to sprawl?
So in effect your saying that WC didn't have a solution to a
grapplers shoot so you had to go out and learn a grapplers defense to
this technique? For shame Xiaou what would your WC Sifu say?
Regards Scary.
WannabeSomeone
I think "Divine Monkey Stealing the Peach" is supposed to use the hand to
squeeze the opponent's bag, and not supposed to put the opponent's penis
into you mouth. You apparently have misread the instruction. I think you
should seek a real Kung Fu "Sifu" rather than trying to learn Kung Fu from
books.
I think all the BJJ guys love sparring with you.
Wannabe
=======
xiaou2
> So rather than talk about other styles, let's talk wing chun. Can you
> go over what makes WC techniques have great speed? Is it just that
> they are straight line 'shortest distance between points', or is there
> more to it.
Firstly, Its not just plain speed that WC has over over styles. Speed
alone will not win a fight.
The answer is not what some might think. A karate guy and a wc guy may
both have handspeeds that are equal. Meaning, the reaction times between
the average person -vs- the fastest person on earth is so minimal that its
not worth mentioning.
However.. the reason the WC guy will have an advantage, is due to
protection, placement, and pure science.
A search on Spear Hand results in this:
http://www.shotokanforeveryone.com/spear.htm
Karate Spear Hand:
You can see the guy animating the strike.. The arm starts from a pulled
back chamber, then thrusts forwards to strike. The arm them pulls back as
the other arm shoots.
This is most likely just a training version... where as the real technique
is probably thrown from a standard rear hand from a typical boxer stance.
The path is diagnal from the outside, twords the middle.
The shoulders might extend into the strike, giving distance, and turning
the hip.
----------
Wing Chun Thrusting Fingers:
Starting from a forward facing stance:
Both legs are shoulder distance appart, one is about 1ft in front of the
other. Toes at 45 degree angle. Weight 100% on rear leg.. which is
slightly bent at the knee. Front leg, weightless - barly touching the
ground, in order to either:
1) block/redirect a kick
2) Kick a target
3) to move/dodge/step in or out, more quickly.
Both shoulders are squared... so neither is in front of the other. This
allows either left or right hands equal distance to the target at any time.
One hand is about 2" in front of the center of the chest to act as a "rear
protective hand" This will save you from an attack that managed to slip
the lead hand.
The lead hand is about 3" from full extention, in the center line, in
front of the rear hand.
In WC, you can choose to shoot with either the Lead hand, or the rear.
The lead hand is already in the center line of attack - so it will not have
to travel in a diagnal or large circle... just stright ahead. Its also
almost at the target.. so will take less time to arrive there.
To strike with the lead hand, you must be in Very close range. In order
to gain usage.. you can take a step first to get into range, then shoot the
lead strike. Or, you can allow the person to come to you to get the range.
Or, use it as a counter to thier strike. There are many Safe ways to
attain the range needed.
The lead strike may be a bit of a deycoy.. to call the other persons hands
to the front.. leaving thier other targets exposed.. then the rear hand
strikes a split second afterwords to them. Again, can be a counter.. with
a step..ect.
Biu Gee strike also doubles as a block. Its force will redirect an
incomming strikers arm, with the angle on the bottom of the arm. The block
can be then extended into a strike by following thru deeper once the
attackers arm speed was nullified.
It also can push an arm/strike out of the way by 'threading' its way into
the center.. and using the side of the arm to deflect.
Upon shooting A finger strike, the strike goes under the center line about
1", so as to clear a straight path runway for the next strike... returning
to the rear ready for the next move. There is little room left between
incomming and outgoing arms, so that there is no 'hole' where an expert
striker might be able to take advange of.
Your waist does not turn sideways durring the strike. This allows a
quicker recovery with no chance for leaving the spine (back) open to attack
(or chokes..ect). You maintain ballance and mobility, and can change the
strike to something else in mid transit.
Not the best examples.. but shows about how Biu Gee looks and works:
http://www.swiftwingchun.org/video/demos/2002_16_Moon_Seminar_Clip006/Moon
_Seminar_Clip00_56k.mov
http://www.swiftwingchun.org/video/demos/2002_16_Moon_Seminar_Clip008/Moon_
Seminar_Clip00_56k.mov
So, you can see a massive amount of technical difference here.
Limited WC Recap:
1) both hands are closer to the target
2) No need to recoil far past the chest
3) Straigh pathway = get there quicker
4) Rear hand ready for immediate followup (.5 sec)
5) No need to recoil the waist for the next shot
6) No need to waste energy moving the waist
7) Less chance if strike is blocked, that the attacker can slip to the
rear due to not turning sideways and not over-reaching.
8) No loss of ballance because not over-reaching.
9) Less (vital) openings due to attacks sliding down the center without
any gaps.
10) Able to use leg to kick or block, at the same time as the strike
thrown.
----------------
Comparison:
In karate.. a strike like this mostly starts from a deep step in.. which
leaves the too much weight on the front leg... Easily to kick it.
The longer travel to target:
1) makes it easier to track (telegraphing), and block.
2) takes longer to get to the target and to return from the target.
The diagnal path leaves a hole in the center of the chest.. which a
good striker may take advantage of. (IE: redirect one hand, and strike down
the center at the same time)
The Sidward stance usually used in throwing these, allows one to be able
to slip arround to thier backs eaiser.. and choke them or strike the
spine..ect.
The side stance dosnt allow both hands to reach the target at the same
time...thus little protection and limited followup strike.
They start out with hands near the sides, leaving a hole in the middle.
The bent elbows associated with most karate sparring is easy to trap
against thier bodies with simple palm leveraged pressing.
Kick can not be used durring this strike because they dont do it, and
cause the weights on the front leg.
Kicks cant be blocked with kicks after the lead foot lands as the weights
on it. Long recovery time.
Mobility is limited once its thown, as the weight must be reversed.
Hip may have to be recoiled as well.
-----------------
> On the Bil gee punch what makes it work - is there something special
> about it that's different than a karate spear hand?
So as you can see, the arm technique itself is the same motion.. however,
the delivery system, the protection, the multi-usage as a re-directing
block, the positioning, quick recovery times, less distance to
travel..ect... all this stuff adds up to a superior "system".
xiaou2
> Didn't you say you'd only gotten 2 years into it yourself?!?!
Well, if this guys going to challenge WC's abilities, I want to
know the durration and progression he went thru. This guy could have
took 3 months and claimed to know in that short of time.
While I did only take it for a short time, I trained it constantly
with videos, sparring, teaching, and more.
To be honest, going to spar at first was a shocker. It did in fact fail.
However, I soon realized why. Were things I was doing incorrectly. Took a
good deal of time before the fruits ripened, and I was having little
trouble defeating other styles artists.
> Not everyone comes to RMA for "progression." For some, it's just a
> place to hang out; a "clubhouse" for those interested in martial arts.
well yeah, your right. However, as I said, no reason for acting like a
complete A$$ here. Doing so just makes you look more like how you act.
If someone says WC sucks.. fine.. Im not gona swear at them. What good
will that do?! Insult them? Will that actually help?! not. Does it make
me feel good to belittle people?! What does that say about a person?!
Basically, Im saying learn some control and respect.. not for ME, but for
Yourself. Be a better person. Not acting as a childish brainless moron as
you appear to be thru these utterly crappy foul useless posts. (again,
this is directed at the offender 'gds' so as no confusion)
> No one questions that this is your opinion. The questions are more
> along the lines of, "Given that you have no experience in most any
> Martial Arts in general and BJJ in specific, and that your experience
> in WC was extremely brief, why should anyone (including you) think
> your opinion on a BJJ guy's skills have any value?"
My experience was deeper than you can imagine. I trained nearly every
waking moment of the day and night. I was constantly sparring. Constantly
metting other skilled artists to exchange knowledge, train and sparr.
Going to demos. Researching and trying other styles movments. Playing
with weapons like Rope Dart, Whip Chains, and the more common traditionals.
Id probably learned in 5 yrs what many would have tooken 9+yrs or more to
learn. I was one of those guys who didnt know when to quit.. or what was
too much.
Now, before I get a ton of crap.. Im not saying that there are others who
dont train just as hard.. Just telling what I was up to.
Ive seen a Lot of martial artists play. And Ive played with many
of them.. Including Jujitsu guys. Ive also fought Capoeira, TKD, Kook Sool
Wan, varried Karate, Jeet Kun Do, Wing Chun, Mantis, 5 animal stylist,
Monkey stylist, and some other varied styles.
Researching, seeing and playing with them gave me great insites and
deeper understandings of what types of Skills that are out there.
> I mean, seriously, it's like some guy questioning a Mechanical
> Engineer's math skills on the basis that he took high school Algebra
> and thought he was pretty good at it. You just don't have the frame
> of reference.
>
> I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you need to understand how you're
> coming off sounding.
Your example is very poor in comparison. Ive been arround the block and
not only saw the sights.. but participated in them. I may not be the
"Professor" at the colledge.. but Ive definitly been schooled well enough
to know whats going on and why.
> Given that people take very powerful forehead shots in boxing and
> other striking arts all the time without the effect you're claiming
> (not to mention the classic "forehead smash"), I don't think most
> anyone is going to accept this claim.
Nothing I can do but refer you to Bruce Lees books for clues, and his
students book ( 1,2,& 3" power punching)... and leave it up to you to
attempt if you have the desire to learn and develop.
Boxers wear heavy absorbing gloves which change the way the
strike works for one.. and another, they rarely use it regardless. Other
arts also use gloves in sparring.. and also, do not delieve the same type
of power. Many also hit the face rahter than
the forehead.. which is more absorbing (nose and tissues). Theres a ton
of reasons why.. but its all up to you to reseach/perfect them. I did mine
already. I wouldnt waste time promoting a fake punch.. nor would bruce
lees student be publishing a book on it. nor would bruce lee hint at it in
his other books.. had it not existed and worked. Also countless other
chinese styles use this power in thier arts... developed Over 1500 yrs
ago...
Just because youve never had someone pop you with it, doesnt mean it
doesnt exist. Yes, its been kept a fairly good secret.. mostly because
nobody believes it, nor wants to take the efforts to develop it fully.
> Are you an aspiring novelist?
lol.. Im far from a writer! Its been said that some of my post look
like Im a non- usa / naitive english speaker lol
> You know, except for every Jr. High wrestling program in the world.
Well, thats the kicker. Nobody expected it. Its sorta out of place...
Then again.. its not the safest move either... which is many other arts
had never had to develop a counter to it.
Being that much of this only works in competiton rules..with limited
strike types..ect.. you can see why it wasnt in most other arts as the
choice of 'entrys'.
In real "battlefeild" level combat (hundread against hundreads...).. with
multiple attackers, weapons, and more.. its not realistic in most these
situations.
> The Sprawl is centuries old. This ain't exactly new stuff.
So are other deadlier techniques. Just that many people forget them
over time.
> The roots of BJJ are verifiably 1500 years old at a minimum. BJJ
> derived from Judo which derived from classic japanese JuJitsu (JJJ)
> which is traceable at least 1500 years, if not more.
And yet, its probably tossed much of the 'judo' stuff out, and
just added the rolling stuff in. Limiting its depth rather than enhancing
it.
Now I need a drink :P
:)
Karim
> In real "battlefeild" level combat (hundread against hundreads...)..
> with multiple attackers, weapons, and more.. its not realistic in most
> these situations.
Instead, you'd leap past the enemy's pikes, remove their helmet and punch
them in the forehead, no doubt? ;-)
--
Karim <remove SPAMFREE: karimSrPaAsMhFaRdEE at gmail dot com>
Robert Low
> On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 11:26:57 +0000, xiaou2 wrote:
>> In real "battlefeild" level combat (hundread against hundreads...)..
>> with multiple attackers, weapons, and more.. its not realistic in most
>> these situations.
> Instead, you'd leap past the enemy's pikes, remove their helmet and punch
> them in the forehead, no doubt? ;-)
Only a wimp would do that. A True Martial Artist could punch the
helmet in just the right way to cause a resonation that would send a
shock wave in through the skull and turn the brain to goo.
Of course, only Wing Chun provides the necessary expertise.
Rabid Weasel
No, they did it at least once, a few decades earlier on the island of
Krakatau in late August, 1883.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krakatoa
Rabid Weasel
>> Not everyone comes to RMA for "progression." For some, it's just a
>> place to hang out; a "clubhouse" for those interested in martial arts.
>
> well yeah, your right. However, as I said, no reason for acting like a
> complete A$$ here. Doing so just makes you look more like how you act.
>
> If someone says WC sucks.. fine.. Im not gona swear at them. What good
> will that do?! Insult them? Will that actually help?! not. Does it make
> me feel good to belittle people?! What does that say about a person?!
>
> Basically, Im saying learn some control and respect.. not for ME, but for
> Yourself. Be a better person. Not acting as a childish brainless moron as
> you appear to be thru these utterly crappy foul useless posts. (again,
> this is directed at the offender 'gds' so as no confusion)
Personal "self respect" and "control" etc. really aren't the goals of a
great many martial arts. In fact, the whole concept of MA as a vehicle
for spiritual, emotional, and social improvement is a very new event.
Martial Arts have always been about hurting people and breaking their
toys. Given that context, the behavior that you find objectionable
really isn't all that surprising and, in fact, is to be expected.
>> No one questions that this is your opinion. The questions are more
>> along the lines of, "Given that you have no experience in most any
>> Martial Arts in general and BJJ in specific, and that your experience
>> in WC was extremely brief, why should anyone (including you) think
>> your opinion on a BJJ guy's skills have any value?"
>
> My experience was deeper than you can imagine. I trained nearly every
> waking moment of the day and night. I was constantly sparring. Constantly
> metting other skilled artists to exchange knowledge, train and sparr.
> Going to demos. Researching and trying other styles movments. Playing
> with weapons like Rope Dart, Whip Chains, and the more common traditionals.
> Id probably learned in 5 yrs what many would have tooken 9+yrs or more to
> learn. I was one of those guys who didnt know when to quit.. or what was
> too much.
I'm sorry to have to tell you this but your experience is far more shallow
than you can imagine. Your discussion about the effects of boxing gloves
below, as well as your discussion on other arts such as wrestling and
Judo, shows that you have very little actual knowledge about the arts
you're trying to discuss.
> Now, before I get a ton of crap.. Im not saying that there are others who
> dont train just as hard.. Just telling what I was up to.
No one is saying that. They're saying that you're not as deep as you
think you are and every time you try to discuss other arts or how
powerfully you can punch it shows.
>> I mean, seriously, it's like some guy questioning a Mechanical
>> Engineer's math skills on the basis that he took high school Algebra
>> and thought he was pretty good at it. You just don't have the frame
>> of reference.
>>
>> I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you need to understand how you're
>> coming off sounding.
>
>
> Your example is very poor in comparison. Ive been arround the block and
> not only saw the sights.. but participated in them. I may not be the
> "Professor" at the colledge.. but Ive definitly been schooled well enough
> to know whats going on and why.
Yeah, um, see... your discussion of Boxing, Judo, BJJ, Wrestling, etc.
shows that you really don't know a whole lot about those arts which makes
the gentle reader question how much you really *have* "been around the
block."
>> Given that people take very powerful forehead shots in boxing and
>> other striking arts all the time without the effect you're claiming
>> (not to mention the classic "forehead smash"), I don't think most
>> anyone is going to accept this claim.
>
> Nothing I can do but refer you to Bruce Lees books for clues, and his
> students book ( 1,2,& 3" power punching)... and leave it up to you to
> attempt if you have the desire to learn and develop.
>
> Boxers wear heavy absorbing gloves which change the way the
> strike works for one.. and another, they rarely use it regardless. Other
> arts also use gloves in sparring.. and also, do not delieve the same type
> of power. Many also hit the face rahter than
> the forehead.. which is more absorbing (nose and tissues). Theres a ton
> of reasons why.. but its all up to you to reseach/perfect them. I did mine
> already.
Ummm... yeeeaah...
> I wouldnt waste time promoting a fake punch.. nor would bruce
> lees student be publishing a book on it. nor would bruce lee hint at it in
> his other books.. had it not existed and worked. Also countless other
> chinese styles use this power in thier arts... developed Over 1500 yrs
> ago...
Yeah, according to oral myth. Not much real, hard, evidence to put WC
more than about a century or so old. Not that that matters really. I was
addressing your incorrect claims that the strategy Gracie used was somehow
new. It isn't. But, because you don't have as much depth as you think
you do, you thought it was new.
>> Are you an aspiring novelist?
>
>
> lol.. Im far from a writer! Its been said that some of my post look
> like Im a non- usa / naitive english speaker lol
Ummm... What I'm saying is that your claims that you scared some BJJ
armbreaker into being polite sounds a bit.. ah... "exaggerated." And
that's about as politely as I can put it.
>> You know, except for every Jr. High wrestling program in the world.
>
> Well, thats the kicker. Nobody expected it.
Except for people who wrestle. For ages wrestling was one of the
foundational self-defense tools in Western Civ. It was only supplanted in
the minds of the public by Easter Martial Arts (EMA) in post WWII '50s or
so. The strategy really wasn't "brilliant" as you said. But you're right
that it was totally unexpected by most of the EMA stylists. The Gracies
had properly divined the appropriate mix of grappling and standup to best
the EMA proponents as well as the single-discipline wrestlers and boxers
that the faced. Yes, the Gracies have been innovative about a number of
things within grappling but the basic strategy is old. Very old. Goes
back centuries... millennia...
> In real "battlefeild" level combat (hundread against hundreads...).. with
> multiple attackers, weapons, and more.. its not realistic in most these
> situations.
In real battlefield level combat no one is going to be doing WC kicking or
chain punches. Historically, they're gonna be armed with spears, swords,
pikes, bows, etc. This precedent is far older than even WC's unverifiable
claims of age. I've seen the Terra-Cotta Army. Bronze pointed spears,
Bronze tipped arrows, Bronze short-swords, sophisticated Lamellar
Armour... Yeah, no *way* an army of WC guys is going against them and
chain punching. Now you can claim that WC was invented for fighting but
claiming that WC was invented for "battlefield level combat" is just plain
silly. Even WC's weapon systems, longpole & butterfly-swords, are
civilian weapons, not military. Nor are said weapons taught in military
formation use. So, please, enough with this "real battlefield level
combat" stuff, OK?
>> The Sprawl is centuries old. This ain't exactly new stuff.
>
> So are other deadlier techniques. Just that many people forget them
> over time.
I was speaking to your claim that the strategy for defending against
shoots is somehow new. It's just as old as the shoot.
>> The roots of BJJ are verifiably 1500 years old at a minimum. BJJ
>> derived from Judo which derived from classic japanese JuJitsu (JJJ)
>> which is traceable at least 1500 years, if not more.
>
> And yet, its probably tossed much of the 'judo' stuff out, and
> just added the rolling stuff in. Limiting its depth rather than enhancing
> it.
I was addressing your claim that it was somehow "new." It isn't. I'm not
saying that BJJ alone in a vacuum isn't lacking other skills such as
stuandup, weapons, etc. This is pretty well accepted even among MMA
proponents. I'm saying that the basic strategy is very, very old. I
mean, let's see now, WC was supposed to have come (according to legend)
from a nun that escaped the destruction of the Shaolin Temple in 1647.
She taught some girl named Wing Chun a few years after her escape. I've
got a copy of a european wrestling manuscript that shows takedowns and
grappling from the same time period (specifically the year 1674 -
Peter's Wrestling). And this isn't the oldest euro wrestling documentation
either. Not by a longshot.
Anyway, that's a lot to say just to repeat this: It ain't new.
> Now I need a drink :P
I don't drink so you can have mine too.
Rabid Weasel
Only after first knocking him off of his horse with a flying sidekick.