Russian Martial Art
Benjamin Brackbill
skor...@treco.net wrote:
"The ROSS system (www.redrose.net/amerross) and the Systema taught by
Vladimir Vasiliev (53 Patrice Crescent, Thorn Hill, Ontario, Canada
L4J4Z1) appear virtually identical to me. (I should stress I'm a
relative newcomer to the soviet system so this is just an opinion.)
I'm
going to my first big seminar in May and I'm looking forward to
getting
together with some more experienced practicioners."
ROSS has been shared with only a small group of select individuals in
the Americas, so I
don't know how you can say that ROSS (endorsed by the National Olympic
Committee
of Russia) and this individual in Canada "appear identical", especially
since you say that
you have not been to a seminar before, and I am sure that you have not
had the
opportunity to train in ROSS before.
"The system (Systema) stresses fitting the art to the individual and
there's no one "right" way do things."
No ROSS does not. It stresses that there is a mechanically correct form
that each person
intuits through modeling the behavior of a qualified trainer. You are
correct that there is
no one right way to move, but ... it is more appropriate to say that
there is no curriculum
of "techniques" (what we call "tricks"), and there is always more
biomechanically efficient
movement to effectuate the strategic objective
"Whatever works is acceptable."
ROSS is an exercise in efficiency: how much total work is used for how
much useful
work gained? Anything can "work", but what ROSS trainers impart to us
is the
understanding that, especially of the course of a lifetime, what we are
looking for is more
efficient ways of accomplishing the same end. Oh yes, in the wonderful
span of years
18-25 when we feel invulnerable, when we have not yet accumulated
decades of
ammased micro-trauma to our joints, and tissues, and organs, when we are
still invincible
and care not if we live another 5 years, yes... we CAN just do whatever
works. But
ROSS is about our LIFE... we are in this for survivability... to
increase our longevitity...
"It uses a very relaxed flowing energy and at times the practitioner
can
look like a dancing rag doll.The systema consists of techniques,"
In ROSS, the concept of "technique" is missing. Properly, as the head
trainer in the
Americas, Scott Sonnon, explains the understanding is this:
biomechanics + objective (imminent jeopardy or extreme urgency) =
"trick" (specific
method that is SENSITIVE to the infinite variables that are present in
each new situation.
Even if you were to try and replicate two isolated situations, it would
be impossible. In
conventional understanding of martial art, it is "context-specific" (if
A, then B)... which
some through years of training, and with immense effort can through
strength, speed, or
deception IMPOSE on another. even worse is the understanding in some
"modern"
martial systems that are "context-free" (this choke, for instance, will
work in ALL
situations, or this such-and-such....).
"strategies, and principles from bare-knuckle boxing, regional
fighting
arts and dances (buza, skobar, etc.), an Aikido look-alike called
Samoz
as well as Sambo and some eastern martial arts."
If you are interested in the history of Russian Martial Art, visit
http://www.redrose.net/amerross/back.html or a 50 page Russian language
history at
http://www.ROSS.ru. But first and foremost, RMA is NOT composed of
"eastern"
martial art forms. Eastern martial art education, pedagogy, doctrine
and strategy cannot
be combined with Slavic martial traditions. It is like trying to cut an
apple in half and cut
an orange in half and taping the two halves together to form a new
fruit. The Slavic
martial tradition was developed in response to, in defense again, and
influenced by the
presence of, but NEVER comprising the "oriental".
"At first glance it can appear sloppy and even clumsy but is very
unpredictable.
Improvised weapons are a huge part as is throwing weapons."
There are no "parts" in ROSS. Learning the mechanics of balance
displacement and
marraige of gravity, is the same as learning the mechanics of operating
an appendage,
which is the same as learning the mechanics of engaging the ground
effortlessly and with
harm, which is the same as the mechanics of negotiating terrain, which
is the same as
employing tools, which is the same as... etc..
"If your interested in the military tactics that go with the
hand-to-hand, the book"
The world's only book on ROSS Training System (endorsed and sanctioned
by the
National Committee of Russia as the official representative of Russian
Martial Art within
Russian and world-wide) is available at
http://www.redrose.net/amerross/manual.html.
Videos are soon available, but NOT instructional videos: true martial
art education, at
least, Russian Martial Art, CANNOT be learned on a video, it MUST be
experienced
with a qualified trainer. The role of a trainer is to create an
environment so that the
student can arrive at (early stages) kinesthetic insight. This
environment cannot be
manufactered by someone who knows not. If you already "know" how you
want to train,
then you don't need a trainer, but if you want to learn something that
you dont know, cant
know, wouldn't know without a trainer, THEN find a qualified trainer,
and invest your
trust in him 100% without doubt or hesitation! otherwise, go back to
your backyard or
basement and play at "doing" martial art tricks.
For seminars on Russian Martial Art across the Americas, visit
http://www.redrose.net/amerross/future.html...
VSEGO DOBROGO!
skor...@treco.net
Benjamin Brackbill wrote:
>
> skor...@treco.net wrote:
>
> "The ROSS system (www.redrose.net/amerross) and the Systema taught by
> Vladimir Vasiliev (53 Patrice Crescent, Thorn Hill, Ontario, Canada
> L4J4Z1) appear virtually identical to me. (I should stress I'm a
> relative newcomer to the soviet system so this is just an opinion.)
> I'm
> going to my first big seminar in May and I'm looking forward to
> getting
> together with some more experienced practicioners."
>
> ROSS has been shared with only a small group of select individuals in
> the Americas, so I
> don't know how you can say that ROSS (endorsed by the National Olympic
> Committee
> of Russia) and this individual in Canada "appear identical", especially
> since you say that
> you have not been to a seminar before, and I am sure that you have not
> had the
> opportunity to train in ROSS before.
This was just an observation I made comparing the materials I recieved
from the ROSS school in Atlanta and the materials I have from Vasiliev.
They do look the same to me, but again I'm a newbie to Russian Martial
arts.
> "The system (Systema) stresses fitting the art to the individual and
> there's no one "right" way do things."
>
> No ROSS does not. It stresses that there is a mechanically correct form
> that each person
> intuits through modeling the behavior of a qualified trainer. You are
> correct that there is
> no one right way to move, but ... it is more appropriate to say that
> there is no curriculum
> of "techniques" (what we call "tricks"), and there is always more
> biomechanically efficient
> movement to effectuate the strategic objective
>
I phrased that badly and I appreciate your clarification.
> "Whatever works is acceptable."
>
> ROSS is an exercise in efficiency: how much total work is used for how
> much useful
> work gained? Anything can "work", but what ROSS trainers impart to us
> is the
> understanding that, especially of the course of a lifetime, what we are
> looking for is more
> efficient ways of accomplishing the same end. Oh yes, in the wonderful
> span of years
> 18-25 when we feel invulnerable, when we have not yet accumulated
> decades of
> ammased micro-trauma to our joints, and tissues, and organs, when we are
> still invincible
> and care not if we live another 5 years, yes... we CAN just do whatever
> works. But
> ROSS is about our LIFE... we are in this for survivability... to
> increase our longevitity...
>
Again, a mistake on my part. I was quoting Vasiliev who is in no way
associated with ROSS. I should have made that distinction.
This came directly from the manual I recieved from the ROSS school. page
6 to page 14
Again I never claimed to be an expert in Russian Martial Arts or the
ROSS system. If I gave that impression I apologize. I'm very excited
about the oppurtunity to learn more about this close quarter combat
system and was trying to share that with others. And I'm sure you can
appreciate that some of the information came from sources outside the
ROSS schools. While ROSS information is hard to get Spetznaz information
has become more and more common these days.
I have used every oppurtunity to learn what I could about Russian
Martial Arts and plan on continuing to do so. I'm sure you are the same
your self and cannot fault me for that. Perhaps one day I will learn
directly from you, who can say? Until then I'm just doing the best I
can.
Yours in the Martial Arts
Larry
-Grumpy old man in training.