Truly, this is the first example of anti-grappling at its best, in action; Maurice Smith, "heavyweight champion of the world" in kickboxing and muy thai, was the matador, and "Conan" Silviera was the bull.
Smith was able to keep the significantly larger Conan at bay nearly the entire fight- blocking, dodging, kicking low, kicking high, punching now and again- slipping away from all but one of Silviera's clinches or attempted clinches (and in that one instance swiftly reversing Conan into a guard position beneath). In the end it was a masterful roundhouse kick to the temple which spelled the BJJ behemoth's sundry end.
Spectacular!
Play by play:
For the main of it, Conan shot in and Maurice shot back, an uppercut and a kick firing in the aftermath of the shoot- and many more kicks, indeed! Silviera developed a welt on his left leg from the accumulation of blows. The one successful clinch and near-mount was defeated as Smith reversed and landed in Conan's guard, striking incessantly, and Silviera's only other shining moment in the bout- a score of uppercuts- impotised by Smith's superb defensive coverage and devastating kicks to the body, backed by shots to the face, and finalised in a series of expertly-explayed Thai leg strikes. The final blow came in the third round, catching Conan completely off guard and sending him reeling back against the fence, utterly disoriented- out on his feet!
This one bout justified the entire event, and if you've not yet viewed EFC 3, I suggest you do so ASAP.
Perhaps we truly haven't seen the best and the brightest of the striking world in NHB tournies yet...
(A few other interesting bouts:
Ralph vs. Kempo artist - Very exciting, if the outcome was somewhat predictable
Paulson vs. Humes - Humes wins a fairly close match, with superior strikes & inferior grappling- fight stopped due to deep cut from strike to forehead in clinch
Vale vs. Japanese Judoka - Much smaller Judoka dominates standing and on the ground, though Vale does manage to rise his feet; however- and this is the borderline absurd aspect- the Judoka knocks him out with a plethora of strikes, simple boxing! )
> Vale vs. Japanese Judoka - Much smaller Judoka dominates standing > and on the ground, though Vale does manage to rise his feet; however- > and this is the borderline absurd aspect- the Judoka knocks him out > with a plethora of strikes, simple boxing! )
Oh my! I'm sure that as soon as the Kodokan hear's about this so called *Judoka* using a strike, that they'll demote him to white belt. How *dare* a Judoka use a strike! Why, that's as absurd as a p/k'er knowing what to do on the ground! We'll probably find out that this shady charactor has been sneaking around to a Karate dojo on the sly. Give me this so called *Judoka's* name, and I'll make sure he's blacklisted from any Judo events.
:Oh my! I'm sure that as soon as the Kodokan hear's about this so called :*Judoka* using a strike, that they'll demote him to white belt. How :*dare* a Judoka use a strike! Why, that's as absurd as a p/k'er knowing :what to do on the ground!
No- it's as silly as a p/k'er blowing away a grappler on the ground. : )
(I for one don't normally expect the small grappler to outbox the large kickboxer...)
HntrRos (hntr...@aol.com) wrote: > No- it's as silly as a p/k'er blowing away a grappler on the ground. : )
> (I for one don't normally expect the small grappler to outbox the large > kickboxer...)
Well, I can agree with that! Sorry for the satire, I just couldn't resist! But I've always been of the opinion that the person's art doesn't mean nearly as much as many people believe, rather, that it is the person himself... his fighting spirit, his ability to use whatever techniques he knows effectively, and so on... As a Judoka, *I* wouldn't try outboxing a kickboxer, so I would be forced to agree with your last sentence!!
Ben Holmes (bnhol...@rain.org) wrote: : HntrRos (hntr...@aol.com) wrote:
: > No- it's as silly as a p/k'er blowing away a grappler on the ground. : ) : > : > (I for one don't normally expect the small grappler to outbox the large : > kickboxer...)
: Well, I can agree with that! Sorry for the satire, I just couldn't : resist! But I've always been of the opinion that the person's art doesn't : mean nearly as much as many people believe, rather, that it is the person : himself... his fighting spirit, his ability to use whatever techniques he : knows effectively, and so on... As a Judoka, *I* wouldn't try outboxing a : kickboxer, so I would be forced to agree with your last sentence!!
Don't Judoka learn atemi-waza from the traditional Kodokan katas? If so, at what level do they begin learning them?
-- Roland S. Lee Materials Science and Engineering University of Pennsylvania r...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
Well, I've been called a coward, but I've seen two world wars And I lost my son Virgil, my Korean reward And my Lucy died last summer - you ask me if I cry? Hell, I'll show you tears, they're all over this ground They're falling from these blue Alberta skies
-Blue Alberta Skies by Paul Gross and David Keeley
> Ben Holmes (bnhol...@rain.org) wrote: > : HntrRos (hntr...@aol.com) wrote: > : > No- it's as silly as a p/k'er blowing away a grappler on the ground. : ) > : > > : > (I for one don't normally expect the small grappler to outbox the large > : > kickboxer...)
> : Well, I can agree with that! Sorry for the satire, I just couldn't > : resist! But I've always been of the opinion that the person's art doesn't > : mean nearly as much as many people believe, rather, that it is the person > : himself... his fighting spirit, his ability to use whatever techniques he > : knows effectively, and so on... As a Judoka, *I* wouldn't try outboxing a > : kickboxer, so I would be forced to agree with your last sentence!!
> Don't Judoka learn atemi-waza from the traditional Kodokan katas? If so, > at what level do they begin learning them?
> -- > Roland S. Lee > Materials Science and Engineering > University of Pennsylvania > r...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
> Well, I've been called a coward, but I've seen two world wars > And I lost my son Virgil, my Korean reward > And my Lucy died last summer - you ask me if I cry? > Hell, I'll show you tears, they're all over this ground > They're falling from these blue Alberta skies
> -Blue Alberta Skies by Paul Gross and David Keeley
Depends on the school, and the emphasis placed on katas. Frequently not until black belt level, and, in some cases, not at all.
mulrc7 (mul...@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu) wrote: > >Roland Lee wrote: > > Don't Judoka learn atemi-waza from the traditional Kodokan katas? If so, > > at what level do they begin learning them?
> Depends on the school, and the emphasis placed on katas. Frequently not > until black belt level, and, in some cases, not at all.
How true! And I wouldn't be stupid enough to try my weakness against another's strength. The *average* Judoka has close to non-existant striking skills. Just as the average Karateka has close to non-existant grappling skills... it's not really a reflection on the art, as many think. There are simply not enough years in my life to become more than mildly skillful in striking: I've spent many years learning different methods of throwing/pinning/armbars/chokes, and have come to the point where it's overwhelming what I *don't* know about throwing/pinning/armbars and chokes... How I could possibly match the skill of someone else who has spent an equivalent amount of time & effort in learning striking, distancing, combinations, blocking, and kicks? I spent a few days in the gym once with a USMC W.O. who worked with me and showed me the skill involved with boxing. I was greatly impressed with the knowledge he demonstrated, solid technique... I'm not talking about skill... he showed me that even boxing has a solid basis of knowledge, how much more could a good Karateka demonstrate?
In article <54hita$...@news.rain.org>, bnhol...@rain.org (Ben Holmes) writes:
>I was greatly impressed with the knowledge he >demonstrated, solid technique... I'm not talking about skill... he showed >me that even boxing has a solid basis of knowledge, how much more could a >good Karateka demonstrate?
A "good Karateka" would be knocked out fast even by a very average boxer. Karate handwork is very foolish, leaves huge openings and is very telegraphed. Also, footwork is almost non-exsistant, and there is no head movement. It's just plain silly.
: In article <54hita$...@news.rain.org>, : bnhol...@rain.org (Ben Holmes) writes:
: >I was greatly impressed with the knowledge he : >demonstrated, solid technique... I'm not talking about skill... he showed : >me that even boxing has a solid basis of knowledge, how much more could a : >good Karateka demonstrate? : >
: A "good Karateka" would be knocked out fast even by a very average boxer. : Karate handwork is very foolish, leaves huge openings and is very : telegraphed. Also, footwork is almost non-exsistant, and there is no head : movement. It's just plain silly.
In head movement, I take it you mean bobbing and ducking. Smart in a box- ing ring but pretty dumb when the other guy can grab your head and drive your nose two inches into your skull with his knee.
As for Karate, which style are you referring to? There are several different styles of Karate.
But I do agree that the average boxer would ring the average Karateka's bell.
-- Roland S. Lee Materials Science and Engineering University of Pennsylvania r...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
Well, I've been called a coward, but I've seen two world wars And I lost my son Virgil, my Korean reward And my Lucy died last summer - you ask me if I cry? Hell, I'll show you tears, they're all over this ground They're falling from these blue Alberta skies
-Blue Alberta Skies by Paul Gross and David Keeley
In article <54j45r$...@netnews.upenn.edu>, r...@blue.seas.upenn.edu (Roland Lee ) writes:
>In head movement, I take it you mean bobbing and ducking. Smart in a box- >ing ring but pretty dumb when the other guy can grab your head and drive >your nose two inches into your skull with his knee.
Ducking, no, you're right. But at least some lateral head movement is necessary, because a moving target is much harder to hit. So are karateka taught to bob? or to move permanently ? How is their footwork? Pretty rigid, right?
>As for Karate, which style are you referring to? There are several >different styles of Karate.
Well, I've seen only guys doing shotokan drills. But I've sparred with a kung-fu and also a TKD guy, and I'm sure that all these arts are very similar - especially when compared to boxing
: Don't Judoka learn atemi-waza from the traditional Kodokan katas? If so, : at what level do they begin learning them?
Interestingly enough, there is a description of punching drills towards the end of the book _Kodokan Judo_, by Jigoro Kano, with photographs of a judoka demonstrating the drills. There is also a chart of preferred body targets (not to be confused with "death-touch"-type points).
> Truly, this is the first example of anti-grappling at its best, in action; > Maurice Smith, "heavyweight champion of the world" in kickboxing > and muy thai, was the matador, and "Conan" Silviera was the bull.
> Smith was able to keep the significantly larger Conan at bay nearly > the entire fight- blocking, dodging, kicking low, kicking high, punching > now and again- slipping away from all but one of Silviera's clinches or > attempted clinches (and in that one instance swiftly reversing Conan > into a guard position beneath). In the end it was a masterful roundhouse > kick to the temple which spelled the BJJ behemoth's sundry end.
> Spectacular!
> Play by play:
> For the main of it, Conan shot in and Maurice shot back, an uppercut > and a kick firing in the aftermath of the shoot- and many more kicks, > indeed! Silviera developed a welt on his left leg from the accumulation > of blows. The one successful clinch and near-mount was defeated as > Smith reversed and landed in Conan's guard, striking incessantly, > and Silviera's only other shining moment in the bout- a score of > uppercuts- > impotised by Smith's superb defensive coverage and devastating > kicks to the body, backed by shots to the face, and finalised in a series > of expertly-explayed Thai leg strikes. The final blow came in the third > round, catching Conan completely off guard and sending him reeling > back against the fence, utterly disoriented- out on his feet!
> This one bout justified the entire event, and if you've not yet viewed EFC > 3, > I suggest you do so ASAP.
> Perhaps we truly haven't seen the best and the brightest of the striking > world in NHB tournies yet...
> (A few other interesting bouts:
> Ralph vs. Kempo artist - Very exciting, if the outcome was somewhat > predictable
> Paulson vs. Humes - Humes wins a fairly close match, with superior strikes > & inferior grappling- fight stopped due to deep cut from strike to > forehead in > clinch
> Vale vs. Japanese Judoka - Much smaller Judoka dominates standing > and on the ground, though Vale does manage to rise his feet; however- > and this is the borderline absurd aspect- the Judoka knocks him out > with a plethora of strikes, simple boxing! )
Judo, my friend, has striking techniques. In the higher dan ranks, they practice atemi-waza. But I am happy that we are getting better and better strikers out there in these competitions. I am a grappler, but I practice with people who are primarily strikers, and have been shown more than once the practicallity of having good striking abilities. Respectfully yours, Creeper
Paolo Valladolid (pvall...@waynesworld.ucsd.edu) wrote:
: Roland Lee (r...@blue.seas.upenn.edu) wrote: : : Don't Judoka learn atemi-waza from the traditional Kodokan katas? If so, : : at what level do they begin learning them?
: Interestingly enough, there is a description of punching drills towards : the end of the book _Kodokan Judo_, by Jigoro Kano, with photographs of : a judoka demonstrating the drills. There is also a chart of preferred : body targets (not to be confused with "death-touch"-type points).
: Paolo
Yeah, I flipped through the same book and noticed the chart with the body's vulnerable spots plus striking surfaces. I was just wondering if the average judoka even practiced this, since most of the practice of atemi-waza seems to be confined to kata which from what I've gathered seems to be a dying practice nowadays.
-- Roland S. Lee Materials Science and Engineering University of Pennsylvania r...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
Well, I've been called a coward, but I've seen two world wars And I lost my son Virgil, my Korean reward And my Lucy died last summer - you ask me if I cry? Hell, I'll show you tears, they're all over this ground They're falling from these blue Alberta skies
-Blue Alberta Skies by Paul Gross and David Keeley
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