Vietnamese Martial Art History
SEAB2B.com
local imperatives, as distinct from the standardization developed in
Japan or in the Peoplés Republic of Chinạ Even after the
reunification of the north and the south, a universally accepted body
for the classification and standardization of martial arts has yet to
emerge publicly in Vietnam. Thus, there are an indeterminate number of
schools, some practicing family traditions, others based in regional
tradition, most clothed in secrecy, with skills perpetuated orally by
transmission from teacher to student. The aura of secrecy that often
attends martial arts was intensified when Vietnam was conquered and
colonized by France (1859 1954). During the colonial period, martial
arts were driven underground and were taught secretly (primarily
within families, some maintain), transmitted with caution from teacher
to student.
There is considerable discussion among Vietnamese martial artists
themselves as to whether any of the Vietnamese martial arts truly
developed independently of Chinese influencẹ Confucianism and
its Mandarin civil service influenced military arts at the elite
levels by the institution of formal military training in an
eleventh‑century academy of martial arts in the capital, Thang
Long City (now Hanoi). In order to graduate in the military sciences,
candidates had to pass entrance exams, followed by a minimum of three
years' study before graduating. This climate also produced, in the
sixteenth century, treatises such as Linh Nam Vo Kinh (On Vietnamese
Martial Art).
In the eighteenth century, major schools of Chinese boxing, primarily
Cantonese, were noted in Vietnam by names such as Hong (Hung) gar, Mo
gar, Choi gar, and Li gar. It is claimed that these styles elaborated
on the styles of various monasteries; among these the most commonly
mentioned was Wo Mei Shan Pal.
In twentieth century Vietnam, Vovinam, Kim Ke, and Vo Binh Dinh have
been regarded as the most popular systems. In ađition, numerous
Sino‑Vietnamese styles have been reported, such as Bach My Phai
(Bak Mei Pai or Baime1quan, Chinese for "White Eyebrow Style",
yongchun (wing chun or Ving Tsun), and Melhuaquan (Plum Blossom
Boxing). These styles were popular among Chinese who lived in Vietnam,
especially in the Cholon section of Ho Chi Minh City (formerly
Saigon).
When discussions of native martial arts arise, Tay Son boxing is often
cited as indigenous to Vietnam. The system came to national attention
in a late eighteenth‑century peasants' revolt in Vietnam. In
1773, three brothers, the Tay Son, led a revolt and divided the
country between them. Their victories were attributed in part to Vo
Tay Son (Tay Son Fighting Style), often known as Vo Binh Dinh (Binh
Dinh Fighting, or sometimes translated into English as Binh Dinh Kung
Fu). Each of the three brothers contributed to modern Vo Tay Son, and
contemporary practitioners trace their martial lineages to one of the
threẹ Vo Tay Son remains an aggressive combat art encompassing
both unarmed and weapons forms. There are eighteen weapons in the
curriculum, with an emphasis on bladed weapons, particularly the
sword.
A less well known system is Kim Ke (Golden Cock). As the name implies,
the system adopts combative features of the cock. There are strikes
modeled on the spurring talons of the fighting cock, as well as
high‑jump kicks to the upper torso or head, a feature that
appears in other Vietnamese systems alsọ Actions are fast and
aggressive, with attack preferred to defensẹ Practitioners of
Kim Ke even utilize biting attacks. It has been noted that Kim Ke
fighters prefer lateral attack angles.
Family systems have been described that simply use the family name
(ẹg., Truong Vo Thuat, Truong Family Fighting Style) as a label.
Such systems are developed within lineages and generally utilize both
Vietnamese and non‑Vietnamese (especially Chinese) martial arts
as sources of armed and unarmed techniques.
The most familiar of Vietnam's martial arts are Vovinam Viet Vo Dao
and Quan Ki Dọ Both systems were synthesized from a variety of
preexisting arts in the twentieth centurỵ
Vovinam (later renamed Viet Vo Dao) was founded by Nguyen Loc (1912
1960) in the late 1930s. Traditional history within the system states
that Nguyen, while in his twenties, combined elements of local schools
of Shontei province, other Vietnamese styles, principles from the
"Linh Nam Vo Kinh" treatise, traditional Chinese wushu, Japanese judo
and related wrestling systems, and Japanese karate to create Vovinam.
Nguyen began teaching his eclectic system to a group of friends in
1938 in the capital city of Hanoị The system was developed with
the practical intent of providing, after a short period of study, an
efficient means of self defensẹ Further, as a distinctive
national art incorporating what supporters have called "the best of
Vietnamese martial arts," Nguyen hoped to establish a basis for
national identity and patriotism among his hard pressed peoplẹ A
spectacular element of the art is the existence of leg techniques in
which the practitioner uses both legs to kick, grasp, and trip an
opponent. The "flying scissors" techniques are the most recognizable
of these Vovinam tactics. Tradition holds that these maneuvers were
developed as a means to allow Vietnamese foot soldiers to attack
Mongol cavalrymen during the Battle of the Red River Delta in 1284.
From its creation until several years following the founder's death,
the system was called Vovinam. The name Vovinam blends two words: Vo
(martial arts) and vinam (a shortened form of Vietnam) to signify
"martial arts of Vietnam." In 1964, Viet Vo Dao ("the philosophy of
Vietnamese martial arts" was ađed to the name to produce the
modern form Vovinam‑Viet Vo Daọ
Quan Ki Do (also Qwan Ki Do, Quan Ky Do), which can be translated as
"Fist and Q1 (energy) Way," was established by Pham Xuan Tong
(cạ 1981). One tradition holds that the roots of the art are in
the Chinese boxing system of Wo‑Mel (a Southern Shaolin style).
The main techniques derived from Chinese martial arts are based on the
animal forms of the tiger, crane, and praying mantis. A Vietnamese
system, Quan Ki, is reported to have been incorporated into the art to
supplement this fundamentally Chinese structurẹ
A countertradition maintains that Tong obtained the knowledge from
which he synthesized Quan Ki Do elsewherẹ According to this
tradition, Quan Ki Do is based on the Vietnamese styles of Vo Bihn
Dinh (see "Tay Son," above), Vo Quang Binh, and Vo Bach Ninh. At least
some of the elements of these arts were inherited through an
unclẹ
The difficult issue of origins aside, Quan Ki Do encompasses both
grappling and striking, as well as a variety of stick, pole‑arm,
and bladed weapons. The Vietnamese sword art of Viet Lon Guom is
included along with traditional Chinese weapons in this arsenal. Also,
meditation and breathing techniques are used to cultivate qị
Tong left Vietnam in the late 1960s and ultimately based his Quan Ki
Do organization in Toulon, Francẹ
Check out "flying scissors" used by Cung Le at www.cungle.com
Karim Rashad
> The aura of secrecy that often
> attends martial arts was intensified when Vietnam was conquered and
> colonized by France (1859 1954).
I wonder if there's any obvious savate influence, like kicking mostly with
the toe, or any French fencing influence on the blade-based systems.
--
Karim Rashad <remove SPAMFREE: krashad at SPAMorbisFREEuk dot com>
@hotmail.com.invalid Eric D. Berge
>The Vietnamese martial arts
Interesting and informative post, thanks.
Well, except this part:
>. Tradition holds that these maneuvers were
>developed as a means to allow Vietnamese foot soldiers to attack
>Mongol cavalrymen during the Battle of the Red River Delta in 1284.
<rolls eyes skywards>
Chas
> >. Tradition holds that these maneuvers were
> >developed as a means to allow Vietnamese foot soldiers to attack
> >Mongol cavalrymen during the Battle of the Red River Delta in 1284.
> <rolls eyes skywards>
The flying scissors is a tad more believable than the kick; terrain's a lot
different too.
Chas
@hotmail.com.invalid Eric D. Berge
<chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Eric D. Berge" <eric_berge @ hotmail.com.invalid> wrote
>> >. Tradition holds that these maneuvers were
>> >developed as a means to allow Vietnamese foot soldiers to attack
>> >Mongol cavalrymen during the Battle of the Red River Delta in 1284.
>> <rolls eyes skywards>
>
>The flying scissors is a tad more believable than the kick
Against a cavalryman? I beg to differ.
phauna
Cavalry has any unarmed men beat, and most armed ones too. Maybe if
they were using real scissors, and jumping........
Paul Tanenbaum
> >The flying scissors is a tad more believable than the kick
>
> Against a cavalryman? I beg to differ.
Against the horse, dumdum!
Sheesh, it's embarrassing when I have to spell these things out -
---
Paul T.
Robert Low
Paul Tanenbaum <ptane...@consultant.com> wrote:
>Eric D. Berge <eric_berge @ hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
>>
>> Against a cavalryman? I beg to differ.
>
>Against the horse, dumdum!
>
>Sheesh, it's embarrassing when I have to spell these things out -
Yeah, everybody knows that it only takes about fifteen pounds
of pressure from a sidekick to break a horse's knee; flying
scissors is the humane way to take the horse down without
crippling it.
--
Rob. http://www.mis.coventry.ac.uk/~mtx014/
SEAB2B.com
I wonder how did people interpret this message into "using scissor
kick against the horse". Please reread the message:
Tradition holds that these maneuvers were developed as a means to
allow Vietnamese foot soldiers to ATTACK MONGOL CAVALRYMEN (not the
horse and this tactic is not impossible to jump on the horse and knock
off the cavalrymen.) during the Battle of the Red River Delta in 1284.
For more information, Vietnam was the only country in Asia that
stopped the Mongol invasion in that period of history.
Chas
> For more information, Vietnam was the only country in Asia that
> stopped the Mongol invasion in that period of history.
Nope; the Indos stopped them in their tracks; same with the Chinese, same
with the Hindus- even the Moghul invasion stopped at religious conversion
except on the coasts- same thing with the Europeans.
Chas
Robert Low
>mtx...@linux.services.coventry.ac.uk (Robert Low) wrote in message
>> >Against the horse, dumdum!
>> Yeah, everybody knows that it only takes about fifteen pounds
>> of pressure from a sidekick to break a horse's knee; flying
>> scissors is the humane way to take the horse down without
>> crippling it.
>I wonder how did people interpret this message into "using scissor
>kick against the horse". Please reread the message:
We're just messing about: the topic of flying kicks vs cavalry
generates many threads here, and novel variations are
getting harder to come by.
--
Rob. http://www.mis.coventry.ac.uk/~mtx014/
Kirk Lawson
> I wonder how did people interpret this message into "using scissor
> kick against the horse". Please reread the message:
It's a long standing joke. The progression is this: There is *NO*
documentation of unmounted, unarmed men using any sort of kicking
technique to unhorse mounted calvary. Further, it is counter-intuitive,
illogical, and just flat not demonstrable. Hence, anyone claiming
"flying sidekicks (or whatever) were developed so that unarmed peasants
can unhorse riders" is viewed with, at best condescending humor or, at
worst, outright ridicule.
> Tradition holds that these maneuvers were developed as a means to
> allow Vietnamese foot soldiers to ATTACK MONGOL CAVALRYMEN
A completely unfounded, insupportable tradition.
Hence the ridicule.
> For more information, Vietnam was the only country in Asia that
> stopped the Mongol invasion in that period of history.
Which unquestionably proves that it was done by unarmed foot-bound
peasants leaping through the air at armed, armoured, highly mobile,
extremely dangerous men with 1000 lbs of horseflesh seeking to
arrow-perforate, trample, skewer, and then chop the remainder to bits.
Forgive my previous skepticism.
Peace favor your sword (IH)
--
"In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or
knowledge of their use."
-Achille Marozzo, 1536
--
"...it's the nature of the media and the participants. A herd of martial
artists gets together and a fight breaks out; quelle surprise."
-Chas Speaking of rec.martial-arts
Chas
>...... The progression is this: There is *NO*
> documentation of unmounted, unarmed men using any sort of kicking
> technique to unhorse mounted calvary.
In fact, not only is that not the proposition ('unarmed' being my major
quibble), the only evidence extant is that it is precisely what happened.
> Further, it is counter-intuitive,
> illogical, and just flat not demonstrable.
Why?
Because all fights go to the ground?
> Hence, anyone claiming
> "flying sidekicks (or whatever) were developed so that unarmed peasants
> can unhorse riders" is viewed with, at best condescending humor or, at
> worst, outright ridicule.
And, again, that's not the proposition.
There are only a limited number of options for the unmounted warrior to deal
with a mounted warrior. It is no wonder that many options were, and are,
explored- in various places, to varying degrees of success, against various
opponents at various times.
Hell, dropping out of trees on them is low percentage too, but there's no
doubt that it happened.
> > Tradition holds that these maneuvers were developed as a means to
> > allow Vietnamese foot soldiers to ATTACK MONGOL CAVALRYMEN
> A completely unfounded, insupportable tradition.
Says someone who never had to fight Mongol horsemen.
No put-down, just an observation.
Mongol ponies are so short, that the feet of the rider often can almost
touch the ground. They *still* often ride without stirrups/loops; and the
saddle is often without a tree- more like a shaped felt pad/cushion.
> Which unquestionably proves that it was done by unarmed foot-bound
> peasants leaping through the air at armed, armoured, highly mobile,
> extremely dangerous men with 1000 lbs of horseflesh seeking to
> arrow-perforate, trample, skewer, and then chop the remainder to bits.
Well, kinda, given your misstatements- the Mongol pony only runs about 700
lbs., if that; nothing was said about 'unarmed', in village situations, you
don't have 'peasants'- you have warriors that have seen invaders before.
Archery was well-known to the defenders- as were war-elephants, war-buffalo
(carabao)- even some use of horses. Leaping from ambush is not completely
unbelievable.
What happened, according to tradition, is that the tactics that had worked
in more open environments kinda bogged down in the jungles and mudflats. I
think it was Kublai that actually came down to SEAsia and pretty much got
thrown out.
Chas
BillMahoney68
>isg8...@4ax.com>...
>> ....
>> >The flying scissors is a tad more believable than the kick
>>
>> Against a cavalryman? I beg to differ.
>
>Against the horse, dumdum!
>
>Sheesh, it's embarrassing when I have to spell these things out -
>
I wonder if I could siscor takedown a horse right into a hoovehook.
Gi
Kirk Lawson
>
> "Kirk Lawson" <lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote
> >...... The progression is this: There is *NO*
> > documentation of unmounted, unarmed men using any sort of kicking
> > technique to unhorse mounted calvary.
>
> In fact, not only is that not the proposition ('unarmed' being my major
> quibble), the only evidence extant is that it is precisely what happened.
The question revolves around using kicking techniques to unhorse
riders. It IMPLIES unarmed. If you had a weapon, you'd use *that* in
preference. I heard a phrase *somewhere*: "You don't eat with your
hands, why would you fight with them?" Now where did I hear that....
> > Further, it is counter-intuitive,
> > illogical, and just flat not demonstrable.
>
> Why?
> Because all fights go to the ground?
No. Because if you want to unhorse a rider you don't do it by trying to
kick at him. You use a man-catcher, polearm, lasso, net, or some other
weapon.
> > Hence, anyone claiming
> > "flying sidekicks (or whatever) were developed so that unarmed peasants
> > can unhorse riders" is viewed with, at best condescending humor or, at
> > worst, outright ridicule.
>
> And, again, that's not the proposition.
Sure it is.
It's the very implication of it. If they had weapons, they wouldn't be
trying to kick a dude off his horse.
> > > Tradition holds that these maneuvers were developed as a means to
> > > allow Vietnamese foot soldiers to ATTACK MONGOL CAVALRYMEN
> > A completely unfounded, insupportable tradition.
>
> Says someone who never had to fight Mongol horsemen.
I've never tried to win a tug of war with a Tiger II Tank either, but
logic tells me what is and what isn't reasonable.
The way you unhorse a rider is to cut down a sapling and use it to knock
him off or weave a rope from some indigenous fiber, etc. and yank him
off.
> > Which unquestionably proves that it was done by unarmed foot-bound
> > peasants leaping through the air at armed, armoured, highly mobile,
> > extremely dangerous men with 1000 lbs of horseflesh seeking to
> > arrow-perforate, trample, skewer, and then chop the remainder to bits.
>
> Well, kinda, given your misstatements- the Mongol pony only runs about 700
> lbs.,
I'm sure that the 300 lb. difference is going to be a great comfort as
he tramples you under his hooves.
> if that; nothing was said about 'unarmed', in village situations, you
> don't have 'peasants'- you have warriors that have seen invaders before.
Sure it does. If these village warriors were trying to dismount calvary
they'd be using tools made to do that.
> Archery was well-known to the defenders-
Which is also a great tool to dismount riders.
> Leaping from ambush is not completely unbelievable.
Armed with a nice, long spear.
Chas
> I wonder if I could siscor takedown a horse right into a hoovehook.
Brazil is not noted for the quality of their resistance against either
horses, or men riding them- I think that's why they invented turtleing.
Sure did well in the speedo matches though; props.
Chas
BillMahoney68
>billma...@aol.com> wrote
>> I wonder if I could siscor takedown a horse right into a hoovehook.
>
>Brazil is not noted for the quality of their resistance against either
>horses, or men riding them
The siscot into the leglock is more of a sambo move.Not really a BJJ thing.
>- I think that's why they invented turtleing.
Judo and wrestlings rules lead guys to turtle.Not BJJ.
BJJers almpst never turtle.
Turtling is the antithesis of BJJ.
>Sure did well in the speedo matches though; props.
You have nghtmares about speedos dont you chas?
Are speedos following you?
Are they reading your mind?
If you answer "yes" to any of these, see a shrink ASAP.
Gi
Chas
> The question revolves around using kicking techniques to unhorse
> riders. It IMPLIES unarmed.
No; if anything, it implies 'close armed'- shorter, more personal weapons.
The Scythians, as an example, armed themselves with two short knives and
leapt upon the back of the horse to kill the rider. There is a rather famous
piece of gold work that has the theme on it- maybe in one of the Russian
collections, I'm not sure.
> If you had a weapon, you'd use *that* in
> preference. I heard a phrase *somewhere*: "You don't eat with your
> hands, why would you fight with them?" Now where did I hear that....
All unarmed fighting is a second choice of exigency and distress.
If I had to deal with mounted warriors, from an unmounted position, I might
well try everything from throwing rocks to pole-vaulting. Training to leap
horse-high might well be a first theory.
> > Why?
> > Because all fights go to the ground?
> No. Because if you want to unhorse a rider you don't do it by trying to
> kick at him. You use a man-catcher, polearm, lasso, net, or some other
> weapon.
(note to self; don't forget the man-catcher, polearms, lasso, net,....)
Hell; the Yaqui's used to beat men on horses by outrunning them, and then
butchering them when they got tired.
> It's the very implication of it. If they had weapons, they wouldn't be
> trying to kick a dude off his horse.
Again, it depends entirely on how they were armed and what the situation
was.
It's like the Okinawan idea of attacking armor with the fist. You can do
that with Japanese armor, as well as the more common Malaysian/SEAsian types
of armor. You can't do it with a steel cuirass (to any great affect).
Same thing with different sorts of horses, saddlery and fighting techniques.
It's a whole lot harder to side-kick an armored Clydesdale/Belgian; with a
high-seat war saddle and a steel-armored man sitting way up on top of it,
with his feet locked into stirrups, than a little guy in laminate armor,
sitting on a pad on a little pony- with maybe loops to put his feet through,
or nothing.
> > Says someone who never had to fight Mongol horsemen.
> I've never tried to win a tug of war with a Tiger II Tank either, but
> logic tells me what is and what isn't reasonable.
You're already assuming a third more weight in a Mongol pony than is
commonplace. You assume a saddle that isn't necessarily there, and if there,
isn't the type you'd suppose. You assume stirrups, and it's not necessarily
so.
> The way you unhorse a rider is to cut down a sapling and use it to knock
> him off or weave a rope from some indigenous fiber, etc. and yank him
> off.
You're not familiar with the steppes, are you? 'Saplings' are a rarity-
that's what made the mounted archer the king.
When they got down to tree country, mudflats and jungle- it was a different
story.
> I'm sure that the 300 lb. difference is going to be a great comfort as
> he tramples you under his hooves.
Buddy; a european warhorse weighed close to a ton- even an arabian weighs
1600 lbs. Shetland ponies weigh 800 lbs.- the Mongolian pony is one of the
smallest breeds there is.
It's *hard* to teach a horse to trample- in a stampede, a horse will avoid
you, where a cow will run right over you and a bull will come get you.
> Sure it does. If these village warriors were trying to dismount calvary
> they'd be using tools made to do that.
Sure- nobody said they had to leave stuff at home in order to be able to
leap.
> > Archery was well-known to the defenders-
> Which is also a great tool to dismount riders.
Yup; and the throwing stick, the sling and the heavier spear.
Of course, if you have to leap, you just have to leap.
> > Leaping from ambush is not completely unbelievable.
> Armed with a nice, long spear.
Lots of guys with short swords, long knives, bludgeons and knives.
In Indonesia, they used blowpipes and poison also.
Chas
@hotmail.com.invalid Eric D. Berge
Tanenbaum) wrote:
Oh, right. I get it now - silly me.
@hotmail.com.invalid Eric D. Berge
>
>I wonder how did people interpret this message into "using scissor
>kick against the horse". Please reread the message:
Easy - because it's absurd in either possible interpretation.
>Tradition holds that these maneuvers were developed as a means to
>allow Vietnamese foot soldiers to ATTACK MONGOL CAVALRYMEN
...dismounted cavalrymen, one hopes, unless you are describing people
doing flying scissors takedowns seven feet in the air against armed
and armored opponents.
Which is just silly.
>(not the
>horse and this tactic is not impossible to jump on the horse and knock
>off the cavalrymen.)
I suppose if they are riding Shetland Ponies, it's conceivable
(Shetland Ponies are the size of largeish dogs:
http://www.imh.org/imh/bw/shet.html). Otherwise, not.
>during the Battle of the Red River Delta in 1284.
>
>For more information, Vietnam was the only country in Asia that
>stopped the Mongol invasion in that period of history.
They were defeated and turned back at Ain Jalut by a combined Mameluke
and Crusader army around the same time. Although I'll grant you that
the Mamelukes weren't from and Asian country.
Dude, you started off here with an interesting and informative post
about a subject that doesn't come up much around here; don't ruin it
by going all weird on us.
Paul Tanenbaum
> >> >The flying scissors is a tad more believable than the kick
> >>
> >> Against a cavalryman? I beg to differ.
> >
> >Against the horse, dumdum!
>
Bad idea - in Horse Tudo, unlike the cage, ax kicks on the
ground are permissible. So while you're cranking one leg,
he's stomping you with the other 3.
Better would be a rolling knee bar into a toe lock.
---
Paul T.
Grappler240
>
>Are speedos following you?
>
>Are they reading your mind?
i think he sockpuppets are in speedos.
;-)
-g
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
"You can carve it on a bowling pin and cram it,for all I care."
-Gichoke, Jan. 21, 2002
Grappler240
>well try everything from throwing rocks to pole-vaulting. Training to leap
>horse-high might well be a first theory.
>
spears or swords long enough to take out the horse's legs. those seem to work
okay.
Grappler240
>1600 lbs. Shetland ponies weigh 800 lbs.- the Mongolian pony is one of the
>smallest breeds there is.
dude...the budweiser clydesdales are descended from those warhorses. they are
HUGE!!!!
SEAB2B.com
http://www.vovinam-vietvodao.net/
Please take a look at the picture of the scissor kick and see if it
possible to take a horseman down?
Posthumandude
>>If I had to deal with mounted warriors, from an unmounted position, I might
>>well try everything from throwing rocks to pole-vaulting. Training to leap
>>horse-high might well be a first theory.
>>
>
>spears or swords long enough to take out the horse's legs. those seem to
>work
>okay.
>
I studied under a traditional viet teacher. He used to tell this story about a
kid raised in the mountains by a general named chi teng (retired, under king
tran hung dao). The kid had to lift calves, then cows, poles, etc. and jump
with them over a creek 100 times before every meal.
Then he supposedly lead the army against the mongols using a heavy metal pole
he'd swing and break the horses legs with.
Other things mentioned were shooting from huts and the use of war elephants.
weirdwolf
@posting.google.com:
Nope just looks like very very shitty Ju jutsu to me
I mean really look at the techniques pages,
Phan don dam lao phai so hai
where the fuck did the attacker learn to punch like this?
Or Phan don dam moc phai so nam
So a double palm to the stomach is enough control for a reaping throw
like o soto garaii, yeah right ask one of the judo blokes or wrestlers
what they think about that.
Ted
--
Evil is such a negative term........
I prefer differently moraled.
\ /
0 0
°
~
Y
Karim Rashad
> Bad idea - in Horse Tudo, unlike the cage, ax kicks on the
> ground are permissible. So while you're cranking one leg,
> he's stomping you with the other 3.
>
> Better would be a rolling knee bar into a toe lock.
Actually, that's one human-animal match-up I think the human could never
win. Horses are hard as nails. I have a friend that got kicked by one
when he was younger, right in the middle of the thigh. You should see his
thigh now, it's got a big dent in it.
--
Karim Rashad <remove SPAMFREE: krashad at SPAMorbisFREEuk dot com>
Dan Winsor
> Other things mentioned were shooting from huts and the use of war elephants.
I'd be impressed with the guy who can unelephant a rider with a flying
sidekick.
--
Dan Winsor
"Microsoft's relationship to its users is that of the blue whale
to krill. Our only purpose is to breed, feed and get squeezed
against its giant tongue until every last drop of money is
released." - Rupert Goodwins, ZDNet(UK)
Chas
> >Buddy; a european warhorse weighed close to a ton- even an arabian weighs
> >1600 lbs. Shetland ponies weigh 800 lbs.- the Mongolian pony is one of
the
> >smallest breeds there is.
> dude...the budweiser clydesdales are descended from those warhorses. they
are
> HUGE!!!!
Yeah; I had an opportunity to go on as a harnessmaker with them- biggest
fucking animals you ever saw that didn't have a trunk.
Chas
Grappler240
>are
>> HUGE!!!!
>
>Yeah; I had an opportunity to go on as a harnessmaker with them- biggest
>fucking animals you ever saw that didn't have a trunk.
when i saw them in st louis at the budweiser place....i was utterly
flaberghasted.....i had seen horses....but dayum....not warhorses.
sheesh.
their feet are like trash can lids. i was 5'9" in HS and i was barely chest
level with em.
Chas
> when i saw them in st louis at the budweiser place....i was utterly
> flaberghasted.....i had seen horses....but dayum....not warhorses.
Now figure him with a double-cinched, very deep seat saddle, with breast and
breech straps, maybe a locking stirrup, and straps to hold you in seat. The
knight is now a good five feet off the ground or more. He has a forcing bit
in his mouth with a spiked roller on the tongue bar, and a complex bridle to
power his head easily. The knight has spurs- which may be as much a major
technological innovation as anything else.
Contrast the Mongolian pony at about half or less weight than the European
warhorse; very simple nose halter 'bridle'- maybe without a bit at all (like
a hackamore), simple felt pad or a *very* simple tree- probably single
cinched- no martingale or crupper-strap. Foot-loops instead of stirrups-
maybe just the pad and no stirrup at all. Even the open stirrups of the
Japanese were very easy to lose-
The logic of kicking a mounted European knight can't be applied to the Asian
mounted archer/swordsman. Even the Japanese mounted knight would have been
very vulnerable on all levels- their technology just wasn't that good.
Chas
Grappler240
>very vulnerable on all levels- their technology just wasn't that good.
>
>Chas
but even the european mounted knight was vulnerable to the schiltron.
Chas
> but even the european mounted knight was vulnerable to the schiltron.
fuckin' a.
as are we all.
Chas
TravIsGod
>when i saw them in st louis at the budweiser place....i was utterly
>flaberghasted.....i had seen horses....but dayum....not warhorses.
>
>sheesh.
>
>their feet are like trash can lids. i was 5'9" in HS and i was barely chest
>level with em.
>
>-g
They used to fucking trample people...the horse was a great weapon.
Them Incas found jeebus right quick when the Spaniards started offloading those
monsters.
My relatives are into horses, have some land and a barn and have always had a
few of these things. I have never trusted them. They frighten me. The most
striking thing about horses is how fucking muscular them are.
Trav
TravIsGod
>win. Horses are hard as nails. I have a friend that got kicked by one
>when he was younger, right in the middle of the thigh. You should see his
>thigh now, it's got a big dent in it.
>
>--
>Karim Rashad
A deer could kick an average man's ass.
Forget a horse...they all weigh more than a freaking bear does. And I ain't
seen too many fat horses. They all seem to be freakin ripped like Ronnie
Coleman.
Trav
Chas
> My relatives are into horses, have some land and a barn and have always
had a
> few of these things. I have never trusted them. They frighten me. The
most
> striking thing about horses is how fucking muscular them are.
I was trained as a saddler/harnessmaker- I'm scared to death of them; just
give me the measurements from a distance and go away <g>
Virtually everybody I know that is involved with them has been injured by
them. If you spend a lot of time around them, sooner or later they will give
you a life-changing injury; treacherous at all times. I've never been kicked
badly, but I've been thumped and bit quite a lot, stepped on and pressed
into the stall by the rotten bastards.
Only reason for horses is that cows will kill you if you approach on foot.
Chas
Don Wagner
>My relatives are into horses, have some land and a barn and have always had a
>few of these things. I have never trusted them. They frighten me. The most
>striking thing about horses is how fucking muscular them are.
>
>Trav
I've always got along well with critters and I love riding.
Got shouldered into a stall wall by the horse I had just ridden, just
being playful, and bruised the entire left side of my body.
No wonder warhorses were often measured in how many stableboys they
killed during their war training.
--Don--
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Karim Rashad
> Forget a horse...they all weigh more than a freaking bear does. And I ain't
> seen too many fat horses. They all seem to be freakin ripped like Ronnie
> Coleman.
Truth. Scary beasts. I got caught up in a demonstration that turned
nasty once, and the crowd got charged by mounted police. Ha, you never
saw a mob move away as fast as that.
Don Wagner
>Truth. Scary beasts. I got caught up in a demonstration that turned
>nasty once, and the crowd got charged by mounted police. Ha, you never
>saw a mob move away as fast as that.
4 of my lodge brothers are horse cops in Newark, NJ.
They like to tell stories of controlling rowdy groups by doing things
like sidestepping their mounts toward the group and getting the horses
to do short, staccato prancing. Scary stuff if you're on the ground.
Joao de Souza
>
> My relatives are into horses, have some land and a barn and have always had a
> few of these things. I have never trusted them. They frighten me. The most
> striking thing about horses is how fucking muscular them are.
If there is one phobia I've never been able to shake off is the fear of
horses. When I was about 10, I was learning to ride, when some little
asshole threw something at my horse, and the beast just took off like a
bullet. I was holding on for dear life when its front leg hit a hole,
and the horse just flipped over with me on it. I was badly bruised and
scratched, but overall okay. The horse's leg was broken, so it had to be
put down. I've never been able to ride ever since. Tried numerous
times, but always chicken out. And I'm always jealous when I see people
riding.
Karim Rashad
> 4 of my lodge brothers are horse cops in Newark, NJ.
>
> They like to tell stories of controlling rowdy groups by doing things
> like sidestepping their mounts toward the group and getting the horses
> to do short, staccato prancing. Scary stuff if you're on the ground.
It's really intimidating. The horses were amazingly well trained, though.
The noise level was '11' in the Spinal Tap sense, there was smoke
everywhere, missiles flying, and the horses barely moved until told to.
Karim Rashad
> I have never trusted them. They frighten me. The most striking thing
> about horses is how fucking muscular them are.
Me too. I can't bring myself to go anywhere near the back of them; always
have this feeling of impending being-kicked-in-the-head.
Chas
>.....And I'm always jealous when I see people riding.
It's the *tending* where you get hurt- falling off whilst riding is far less
intimidating; with pleasure mounts anyway.
I like to ride- easy enough to give up unless I have more reason to do it
than not. Horses are easier to deal with when they're dressed for work.
Your experience sounds truly frightening, and throwing stuff at a kid on a
horse is deeply disturbed in any case.
Chas
Chas
> It's really intimidating. The horses were amazingly well trained, though.
> The noise level was '11' in the Spinal Tap sense, there was smoke
> everywhere, missiles flying, and the horses barely moved until told to.
The mounted police in Denver carry bokken as their 'night stick'.
Interestingly, they favor Australian working saddles- nice work too.
Chas
Chas
> Me too. I can't bring myself to go anywhere near the back of them; always
> have this feeling of impending being-kicked-in-the-head.
Nah; that's mules, sometimes donkeys. Mules really do that two hoof kick to
the rear that goes head high- scary shit. Donkeys kick you in the stomach,
and it's pretty half-hearted, kinda.
Horses kick you in the leg; with the cutting edge of the hoof (wearing a
fucking steel plate). They kick forward and sometimes a flick to the side,
but seldom to the rear. Watch how a farrier picks up the hoof and works on
it- he shows himself to the animal and picks up from the rear, on the off
inside.
Horses will kick you with a front leg also.
And they'll step on you so deliberately, you know it's planned. They'll bat
you with their head, 'shudder' you if you're touching them; press you
against anything, knee-raise you, bite you- they'll puff up so a cinch won't
be tight (and your saddle rolls), they'll wait till you're right behind and
shit on you, they'll nose-lift you into the wall/fence/post/trailer- and
they know when you're off balance.
You ought to see a buffalo (bison) kick- they do it in any direction, with
any foot, without shifting or telegraphing- it's a wonderment. They can kick
straight sideways so fast you can't believe it. I saw a fast little cattle
dog see his first buff- he doesn't bother them anymore. Lucky the buff
kicked him under a fence where we could reach him, because they'll trample
too.
Chas
Jacob Andersen
news:pan.2004.01.16....@privacy.net...
> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:36:38 +0000, TravIsGod wrote:
> > I have never trusted them. They frighten me. The most striking thing
> > about horses is how fucking muscular them are.
>
> Me too. I can't bring myself to go anywhere near the back of them; always
> have this feeling of impending being-kicked-in-the-head.
Speaking of which (sort of) I once saw a giraffe kick the door to the cage
it was in. GODDAMN that sounded like a hard kick. That shit'll take your
head off.
/Jacob
Karim Rashad
>> Me too. I can't bring myself to go anywhere near the back of them;
>> always have this feeling of impending being-kicked-in-the-head.
>
> deliberately, you know it's planned. They'll bat you with their head,
> 'shudder' you if you're touching them; press you against anything,
> knee-raise you, bite you-
Thanks a lot, Chas, now I'm scared of *both* ends of the horse :)
Karim Rashad
> Speaking of which (sort of) I once saw a giraffe kick the door to the cage
> it was in. GODDAMN that sounded like a hard kick. That shit'll take your
> head off.
For sure. I saw a pair of giraffes having sex once; put me off the
long-necked fucks for life.
Don Wagner
> they'll puff up so a cinch won't be tight (and your saddle rolls)
This annoys me to no end. I remember being taught to knee the horse
to get them to exhale and thinking that I might hurt them. Pffft,
like that would happen. Last time I did it I just gave a quick sharp
MT knee, pulled it quick and was done.
One of the grooms looked at me and asked if I owned horses of my own.
Should have just told her I was married once and figured it was the
same technique.
;-)
Don Wagner
>Thanks a lot, Chas, now I'm scared of *both* ends of the horse :)
I was scared of monkeys for a while. One of them ate a pair of
glasses I was wearing.
Joao de Souza
>
> I was scared of monkeys for a while. One of them ate a pair of
> glasses I was wearing.
Where you wearing them while the monkey ate it?
Karim Rashad
> I was scared of monkeys for a while. One of them ate a pair of glasses
> I was wearing.
Haha! Shit, I just had my first ever "drink thru the nose into the
keyboard" moment.
Dan Winsor
> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:37:45 +0000, Don Wagner wrote:
>
>>I was scared of monkeys for a while. One of them ate a pair of glasses
>>I was wearing.
>
> Haha! Shit, I just had my first ever "drink thru the nose into the
> keyboard" moment.
Hey everyone! Karim's no longer a virgin! Congrats!
Chas
> This annoys me to no end. I remember being taught to knee the horse
> to get them to exhale and thinking that I might hurt them. Pffft,
> like that would happen. Last time I did it I just gave a quick sharp
> MT knee, pulled it quick and was done.
Yeah; I felt the same way when I saw a guy pull a short hardwood truncheon
and just smack a horse upside the head- casually. Said he got tired of
hitting them with his hand <g>
And, you go kneeing anything but Ol' Dobbin, and they'll knee you right
back. With a working horse, he has to blow sometime, and you just wait. They
won't quite turn blue to fuck with you, but they'll hold their breath and
you know they're thinking about you. <g>
Chas
Paul Tanenbaum
> > ground are permissible. So while you're cranking one leg,
> > he's stomping you with the other 3.
>
> Actually, that's one human-animal match-up I think the human
> could never win. Horses are hard as nails.
Not so, for we have the answer right from the horse's mouth:
***************************************
d0...@yahoo.com (SEAB2B.com) wrote in message news:<58b6a597.04011...@posting.google.com>...
... There are many moves that we do in Vovinam that are
done in Capoeira the scissor locks to the neck are done
in African martial arts quite often.
***************************************
Ya see? I WAS RIGHT! The scissors kick against the Mongol
cavalry is actually a strangle of the horse!
Rickson vs stallion: Rickson by flying triangle, 1:12
---
Paul T.
Paul Tanenbaum
> > http://www.vovinam-vietvodao.net/
> >
> > Please take a look at the picture of the scissor kick and see if it
> > possible to take a horseman down?
>
> Nope just looks like very very shitty Ju jutsu to me
I didn't see any scissor kick.
> Phan don dam moc phai so nam
> So a double palm to the stomach is enough control for a reaping throw
> like o soto garaii, yeah right ask one of the judo blokes or wrestlers
> what they think about that.
That's the most preposterous osoto-gari I ever saw. Uke
has forward momentum, and you reap to the rear?
---
Paul T.
Don Wagner
>On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:37:45 +0000, Don Wagner wrote:
>> I was scared of monkeys for a while. One of them ate a pair of glasses
>> I was wearing.
>Haha! Shit, I just had my first ever "drink thru the nose into the
>keyboard" moment.
But its a true story.
Don Wagner
I was wearing them until the monkey grabbed them off of my face. I
was about 4yrs old and in a pet store with my folks. This monkey
reaches through the bars, grabs my glasses and proceeds to eat them.
Naturally I freak out and start hollering and banging on the cage. It
was a freak show.
Joao de Souza
>
> I was wearing them until the monkey grabbed them off of my face. I
> was about 4yrs old and in a pet store with my folks. This monkey
> reaches through the bars, grabs my glasses and proceeds to eat them.
>
> Naturally I freak out and start hollering and banging on the cage. It
> was a freak show.
Makes me wonder if this has anything to do with your "little monkey"
rating scale?
Joao "a Freudian slip is when you mean to say one thing, but mean your
mother" de Souza
Alex
For Vietnamese and South-East Asian schools, check out:
http://www.martialhub.com/indochinese/indochinese.html#vietnam
Alex
"SEAB2B.com" <d0...@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:58b6a597.04011...@posting.google.com...
> The Vietnamese martial arts (vo thuat) have remained responsive to
> local imperatives, as distinct from the standardization developed in
> Japan or in the Peoplés Republic of Chinạ Even after the
> reunification of the north and the south, a universally accepted body
> for the classification and standardization of martial arts has yet to
> emerge publicly in Vietnam. Thus, there are an indeterminate number of
> schools, some practicing family traditions, others based in regional
> tradition, most clothed in secrecy, with skills perpetuated orally by
> transmission from teacher to student. The aura of secrecy that often
> attends martial arts was intensified when Vietnam was conquered and
> colonized by France (1859 1954). During the colonial period, martial
> arts were driven underground and were taught secretly (primarily
> within families, some maintain), transmitted with caution from teacher
> to student.
Grappler240
>striking thing about horses is how fucking muscular them are.
yeah....lots of farms in my family. horses are quite stout....but NOTHING
compared to a brahma bull. THOSe things are scary.
horses will go out of their way to avoid trampling you....bulls will come after
you.
-g
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
"You can carve it on a bowling pin and cram it,for all I care."
-Gichoke, Jan. 21, 2002
Grappler240
>intimidating;
tell that to christopher reeve.
Chas
> >It's the *tending* where you get hurt- falling off whilst riding is far
less
> >intimidating;
> tell that to christopher reeve.
He was jumping- one of the more dangerous horsy sports, derived from fox
hunting pretty much. You ought to see them mix it with racing- called
'steeplechase'- lots of people/horses maimed for your viewing pleasure.
Detestable sport.
Chas
Don Wagner
>Detestable sport.
It is pretty horrible. No protection for the rider or the horse and
its virtually guaranteed to result in a serious injury.
Polo is a little better but every year a number of riders die and lots
of horses get put down.
Don Wagner
>rating scale?
I wouldn't doubt it one bit. It was the first surreal moment I can
remember.
weirdwolf
@news-server.optonline.net:
I took my ex-wife riding for the first time in Canada , she was 5 months
pregnant at the time.
They gave me the biggest blackest evilist looking fucking horse, as I
tried to mount it it decided to piss about.
I just went round looked it in the eyeand gave it the foulest stream of
abuse switching from English to French in case it was bi-lingual.
I turned round to see everybody just staring at me open mouthed, Never
had a single bit of trouble from it >;-) wished I'd learned to do that a
bit quicker on the farm.
Ted
--
Evil is such a negative term........
I prefer differently moraled.
\ /
0 0
°
~
Y
Posthumandude
>its virtually guaranteed to result in a serious injury.
>
>Polo is a little better but every year a number of riders die and lots
>of horses get put down.
Have any of you heard of buzkashi?
Robert Low
>He was jumping- one of the more dangerous horsy sports, derived from fox
>hunting pretty much. You ought to see them mix it with racing- called
>'steeplechase'- lots of people/horses maimed for your viewing pleasure.
I think they lose a horse or two every Grand National. (Naturally,
what with them being much more expensive than jockeys, people
notice the crippled horses more.)
--
Rob. http://www.mis.coventry.ac.uk/~mtx014/
Robert Low
Don Wagner <dawa...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>They like to tell stories of controlling rowdy groups by doing things
>like sidestepping their mounts toward the group and getting the horses
>to do short, staccato prancing. Scary stuff if you're on the ground.
I never knew dressage was a martial art...
Chas
> I think they lose a horse or two every Grand National. (Naturally,
> what with them being much more expensive than jockeys, people
> notice the crippled horses more.)
It wouldn't be as notable if it wasn't so bloody *civilized*.
It's the maiming and death for the delectation of men in morning dress and
women in $500 hats that intrigues me.
You kind of understand 200 Turks and a dead goat, but one would rather
expect more from the British Nobilit......
nevermind.
Chas
Don Wagner
>Have any of you heard of buzkashi?
Is that sort of like hummus?
Robert Low
Chas <chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Robert Low" <mtx...@linux.services.coventry.ac.uk> wrote
>> I think they lose a horse or two every Grand National. (Naturally,
>expect more from the British Nobilit......
>nevermind.
Unfortunately, though I'd dearly like to lay it all at
the feet of those doomed by heredity never to be on
the receiving end of the epithet 'prognathous', the Grand
National really is as popular a race as we have. People
who never lay another bet in the year will place one
on it.
I've never been a big fan of horse racing; it strikes
me as the sort of activity where 'informed consent'
ought to have some role, apart from the fact that's it's
just so bloody boring to watch.
Fortunately, we still get our chance to laugh at the
nobility on Ascot opening day.
--
Rob. http://www.mis.coventry.ac.uk/~mtx014/
Chas
> Unfortunately, though I'd dearly like to lay it all at
> the feet of those doomed by heredity never to be on
> the receiving end of the epithet 'prognathous',
Well; they'll always have 'steatopygous' going for them.
> the Grand
> National really is as popular a race as we have. People
> who never lay another bet in the year will place one
> on it.
Sure- it's the Super Bowl, and the nobs let you watch- same here.
> Fortunately, we still get our chance to laugh at the
> nobility on Ascot opening day.
They are definitely our shame on parade.
Chas
Robert Low
Chas <chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Robert Low" <mtx...@linux.services.coventry.ac.uk> wrote
>> Unfortunately, though I'd dearly like to lay it all at
>> the feet of those doomed by heredity never to be on
>> the receiving end of the epithet 'prognathous',
>
>Well; they'll always have 'steatopygous' going for them.
I suppose, by conservation of mass, the tissue has
to end up somewhere :-)
>> Fortunately, we still get our chance to laugh at the
>> nobility on Ascot opening day.
>They are definitely our shame on parade.
But they do provide people who'd otherwise have
nothing to share with a common enemy. There's
always a silver lining...you just have to
look hard enough.
--
Rob. http://www.mis.coventry.ac.uk/~mtx014/
Chas
> >Well; they'll always have 'steatopygous' going for them.
> I suppose, by conservation of mass, the tissue has
> to end up somewhere :-)
Man! There are some asses you could stack a case of pop on.
> But they do provide people who'd otherwise have
> nothing to share with a common enemy. There's
> always a silver lining...you just have to
> look hard enough.
Ever the optimist-
Chas
Robert Low
Chas <chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Robert Low" <mtx...@linux.services.coventry.ac.uk> wrote
>> >Well; they'll always have 'steatopygous' going for them.
>> I suppose, by conservation of mass, the tissue has
>> to end up somewhere :-)
>Man! There are some asses you could stack a case of pop on.
Little is beyond the bounds of human desire: remember the
'Hottentot Venus'. That's why those weird genes stay around.
>> nothing to share with a common enemy. There's
>> always a silver lining...you just have to
>> look hard enough.
>Ever the optimist-
Yep. Hell, I stick around with RMA, after all :-)
--
Rob. http://www.mis.coventry.ac.uk/~mtx014/
Chas
> >> >Well; they'll always have 'steatopygous' going for them.
> >> I suppose, by conservation of mass, the tissue has
> >> to end up somewhere :-)
> >Man! There are some asses you could stack a case of pop on.
> Little is beyond the bounds of human desire: remember the
> 'Hottentot Venus'. That's why those weird genes stay around.
Oh; I thought you got to sacrifice them or something.
c.
Posthumandude
>
>Is that sort of like hummus?
More like bloody pulp. 200 afghans on horses try to be the first one to hit a
dead goat into a goal.
On horseback.
And you're allowed to use various bludgeoning weapons to kill/injure your
competitors.
Trent
"Posthumandude" <posthu...@aol.comremove> wrote in message
news:20040117211314...@mb-m06.aol.com...
Hmm, I'm thinking not much of the goat gets into the goal.
Chas
> Hmm, I'm thinking not much of the goat gets into the goal.
Various sub-games break off when the goat falls to pieces.
Really; it was in National Geographic
c.
Trent
"Chas" <chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:f46dnROqwYd...@comcast.com...
lol, pin the tail back on the goat?
Kirk Lawson
Don Wagner wrote:
>
> Joao de Souza <dont_emai...@allgoodnamesrtaken.com> wrote:
> >Makes me wonder if this has anything to do with your "little monkey"
> >rating scale?
>
> I wouldn't doubt it one bit. It was the first surreal moment I can
> remember.
Didn't you have a mirror in your crib?
Peace favor your sword (IH)
--
"In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or
knowledge of their use."
-Achille Marozzo, 1536
--
"...it's the nature of the media and the participants. A herd of martial
artists gets together and a fight breaks out; quelle surprise."
-Chas Speaking of rec.martial-arts
Kirk Lawson
> I wouldn't doubt it one bit. It was the first surreal moment I can
> remember.
That reminds me. My wife was watching this new "reality TV" show called
"The Surreal World" last night (I was reading American Handgunner on the
couch), when I happened to see the most convincing argument for weapons
that I've *ever* seen.
The premise of this bizarre program is to take a bunch of essentially
has-been celebrities and make them live in the same house for a couple
of weeks. They've got Vanilla Ice, Tammy Fay Baker, a Bay-Watch chick,
male porn star (who looks like the pillsbury dough boy now), one of
MTV's 'Real World' chicks, and "Paunch" from 'CHIPS'. Anyway, they've
got all these celebs doing fast food jobs for charity as the gimmick
that episode and they got Gary Coleman to be the "manager." So,
"coincidentally" Gary's old co-star, 'Willis' (whatever his real name
is) "happens" to decide to eat in that establishment *just* that night.
Right. So, half of the crew had been giving Coleman flack the whole
night and he'd been taking it about as gracefully as an elephant in a
tu-tu. Anyhow, Vanilla Ice is incessantly harassing Coleman trying to
get him to do a "What'chu talk'n 'bout Willis?" line and Coleman is flat
refusing and getting more then a little upset. Finally Vanilla Ice
*PICKS UP* Coleman like a child (since he's not much bigger then one)
and hauls him back to the kitchen area laughing about throwing him in
the deep fryer.
No unarmed martial art could have done Coleman any good. Ice was *much*
bigger then him. Much stronger. Young and in decent physical
condition. Not Aikido, not BJJ, not Muy Thai, not Boxing, certainly not
TKD, not Judo. *NOTHING*. I'm watching it now, it's got my full
attention. And I'm thinking that Coleman is screwed. But tickling the
back of my mind is a certainty that if Coleman had whipped a tac-folder
outa his pocket, he coulda shanked Ice in an eye-blink. Ice would
dropped him then or eaten more steel. And no jury would have convicted
Gary if he'd even been arrested.
*This* is what weapons are for.
Robert Low
>That reminds me. My wife was watching this new "reality TV" show called
>"The Surreal World" last night (I was reading American Handgunner on the
>couch), when I happened to see the most convincing argument for weapons
>that I've *ever* seen.
>
>The premise of this bizarre program is to take a bunch of essentially
>has-been celebrities and make them live in the same house for a couple
>of weeks. They've got Vanilla Ice, Tammy Fay Baker, a Bay-Watch chick,
>male porn star (who looks like the pillsbury dough boy now), one of
>MTV's 'Real World' chicks, and "Paunch" from 'CHIPS'. Anyway, they've
That's not an argument for carrying a knife; that's an argument
for keeping a couple of pounds of C4 in the basement and detonating
it when the camera crew's attention is elsewhere.
--
Rob. http://www.mis.coventry.ac.uk/~mtx014/
Don Wagner
>Didn't you have a mirror in your crib?
Maybe. I always thought that I killed my identifal twin and I
transmorgafied his corpse into broken glass, but I might have had a
mirror.
Kirk Lawson
>
> Kirk Lawson <lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote:
> >Didn't you have a mirror in your crib?
>
> Maybe. I always thought that I killed my identifal twin and I
> transmorgafied his corpse into broken glass, but I might have had a
> mirror.
Well, you know... As long as your story is consistent...
Pierre Honeyman
Are you kidding me? These are has-been celebrities; they'd go for the
not-so-secret secret detonation scene, after which they laugh
maniacally while staring into the camera. Any press is good press,
after all.
Pierre
h...@nospam.com
(Robert Low) wrote:
No, it's an argument for not hanging around with a bunch of psycho
has-been losers.
Hal
S. Lockhart
couldn't defend against Ice ice baby.
If Coleman was a, I don't know, brown belt in Jiu-jitsu I think he'd
have done fine. He'd be in far greater physical shape.
I gaurantee there are teenage or younger boxers/BJJers/wrestlers that
are little like Coleman that could defend against Rob Van Winkle.
I've seen 8 year olds at the boxing gym that would break Ice's nose no
problem and probably squirm away if picked up by him.
I love Gary and take it personal when someone fucks with him. Vanilla is
an ignorant fuck. Wow this post is ridiculous.....SL
www.sssfighting.com
space available for rent
TravIsGod
Me too.
>Virtually everybody I know that is involved with them has been injured by
>them.
Ditto. Including near-fatal riding accidents from nasty horses.
>If you spend a lot of time around them, sooner or later they will give
>you a life-changing injury;
I agree with this.
>treacherous at all times. I've never been kicked
>badly, but I've been thumped and bit quite a lot, stepped on and pressed
>into the stall by the rotten bastards.
I've stayed well the fuck away from them. On this side of the electric fence.
Trav
TravIsGod
>If there is one phobia I've never been able to shake off is the fear of
>horses. When I was about 10, I was learning to ride, when some little
>asshole threw something at my horse, and the beast just took off like a
>bullet. I was holding on for dear life when its front leg hit a hole,
>and the horse just flipped over with me on it. I was badly bruised and
>scratched, but overall okay. The horse's leg was broken, so it had to be
>put down. I've never been able to ride ever since. Tried numerou
Around that age they put me on a freaking Quarterhorse and it spooked and
charged up through the brambles. I had no control whatsoever of that horse. I
rode an old mare once or twice and it was pretty docile, but it was old and
female. One of my good friends was a professional jockey and he's like those
horses he rode would up and kill an ordinary rider.
Trav
TravIsGod
>was a freak show.
>--Don--
Were you yelling "this is a mad house"?
Trav
Don Wagner
Fraser Johnston
"S. Lockhart" <SLock...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:15454-400...@storefull-3315.bay.webtv.net...
If Micheal Jackson had loved Gary Coleman instead of a bunch of 8 year olds
he could of saved himself a load of trouble and lawyers bills.
Fraser
Kirk Lawson
It was a *Video Taped* event, *in public*, and *for charity*. Who would
have reasonably expected that a "has-been loser" would be "psycho" or
would do something threatening like that so that he could forsee it and
"not hang around?"
Come on now, hal.
(IH)
--
"Happily, we have a boob-in-residence, and needn't wait for an itinerant
fool to make his rounds."
Kirk Lawson
>
> Coleman is smaller than ice, yes, but that's not necessarily why he
> couldn't defend against Ice ice baby.
Coleman is *LITTERALLY* 1/2 the hight of Ice.
How could would *you* do against a 12' tall man who weight 400+ lbs. no
fat?
> If Coleman was a, I don't know, brown belt in Jiu-jitsu
He'd still have gotten picked up and carried around.
> I love Gary and take it personal when someone fucks with him.
Offer to fight Ice for Gary's honor.
> Vanilla is an ignorant fuck.
And a hypocrite too.
> Wow this post is ridiculous.....SL
This *IS* RMA.
Karim Rashad
>>Haha! Shit, I just had my first ever "drink thru the nose into the
>>keyboard" moment.
>
> But its a true story.
It's funny because it's true...
--
Karim Rashad <remove SPAMFREE: krashad at SPAMorbisFREEuk dot com>
Karim Rashad
>>>I was scared of monkeys for a while. One of them ate a pair of glasses
>>>I was wearing.
>>
>> Haha! Shit, I just had my first ever "drink thru the nose into the
>> keyboard" moment.
>
Well, yeah, but dammit, I don't want to be thought of as 'easy' from now.
Karim Rashad
> Unfortunately, though I'd dearly like to lay it all at the feet of those
> doomed by heredity never to be on the receiving end of the epithet
> have. People who never lay another bet in the year will place one on it.
It's actually the most exciting horse race of the year, too, that's why
it's so popular. An ex-girlfriend of mine, utter hippy animal-lover
veggie type, decided to lay £1 on a horse at the Grand National (everyone
else was...):- she couldn't sit down halfway through, she was so excited-
horses going down everywhere, chaos and confusion reigning, riderless
horses leading, and cutting up the other horses... I think only 13 or 14
horses out of 40 runners made it to the end, and she was sad about the one
that had to be put down... BUT it was seriously exciting to watch. I'm
not judging, but it is a hell of a lot better (to watch) than most other
horse races...
> I've never been a big fan of horse racing; it strikes me as the sort of
> activity where 'informed consent' ought to have some role, apart from
> the fact that's it's just so bloody boring to watch.
It's boring unless you have money on it :) I'm not much of a horse race
person, but I work in the gambling industry, so know a fair bit about it-
it gets less boring the more you know about it. What *is* bad about the
horses is peering into a betting shop at 7:00am on a Sunday morning and
seeing lots and lots of people with slightly desperate looks in their eyes
staring at the screens.