combat realism training
KMMahoney
Hey folks,
What obviously (imho) sets most real fighters apart from most MA practicioners
is the element of realism in their combat training. For example: boxers are
usually fairly tough because they are used to being in the ring with somebody
trying to take their heads off, specials forces types are generally pretty
leathal because they are preparing for or have been in real combat situations
where their life is on the line.
Who out there would like to share some of their training ideas, drills or
approaches to realism in training?
KevinM
Chris and Kayci McKinley
I've got so much to say that I could write another book on the
topic. If I had to be remembered for only one phrase (and I probably
will), it would be the mantra I'm known for: Physics & Physiology over
Magic & Mysticism. Go git yerself an edjimicashun. Realize that
subjective and often supernatural cultural beliefs have always been
Cuisinarted in with effective techniques in the martial arts.
Separating the wheat from the chaff is a matter of individual
definition, but the twin yardsticks of physics and physiology are a good
place to start the filtering process.
That's about all I'll add to the subject right now. I'm just not
enough in the mood to make more enemies tonight to say much else. Or be
labelled a heretic for the gazillionth time.
Chris McKinley
KMMahoney
>Dear Kevin,
>
> I've got so much to say that I could write another book on the
>topic. If I had to be remembered for only one phrase (and I probably
>will), it would be the mantra I'm known for: Physics & Physiology over
>Magic & Mysticism. Go git yerself an edjimicashun. Realize that
>subjective and often supernatural cultural beliefs have always been
>Cuisinarted in with effective techniques in the martial arts.
>Separating the wheat from the chaff is a matter of individual
>definition, but the twin yardsticks of physics and physiology are a good
>place to start the filtering process.
>
> That's about all I'll add to the subject right now. I'm just not
>enough in the mood to make more enemies tonight to say much else. Or be
>labelled a heretic for the gazillionth time.
>
> Chris McKinley
Chris,
it's unlikely you will make an enemy of me (even if you are a heretic a
gazillion times over)(begs the question: dissenter of what beliefs? though).
I seriously doubt I'll ever be confused with a mystic or wannabe mystic but I
see your point about most peoples confusion. They see demonstrable skill and
want an easy expanation for the attainment of it. They also will use this
explanation as a reason to never delve into challenging activities or studies.
No, I'm looking for real information or dialogue on the subject. Training
techniques, phlosophies, specific drills and scenarios. And from you, Chris,
any thoughts on sources of information are welcome.
peace,
KevinM
ps or write the book
Chris and Kayci McKinley
Dear Kevin,
Okay, two big basic things. After you get past your introductory
years to MA, train with REALISTIC attacks and responses to those
attacks. F'rinstance, no one will ever attack anybody with a
traditional front punch from a static front stance and then just
continue to stand there motionless while you whup up on him. It just
doesn't happen. Great for training the basic concepts to the newbies,
not for real.
That's why I like the FMA concept of the witik (strike and pull
back). Apply that to your training partner's punches and see how much
harder they are to deal with. Also, try circling each other before the
uke (Japanese for poor sap who gets clobbered in demonstrations)
launches the punch. Still harder to deal with yet still more real.
The constant movement that occurs in real combat is why the concept
of dominating your opponent's center is so important for in-fighting.
To my taste, most traditional MA's ignore these factors shamefully in
teaching even the beginners. Fighting is not simple, formulaic, and
easy, and shouldn't be taught as if it were.
One of my forte's (wish I could have one that didn't garner me so
many enemies) is analyzing traditional techniques and evaluating them
for realism. In my personal life, I am asked to do this quite often.
Unfortunately, when the truth comes out, I send people away either
pissed off at me or disillusioned with their art or both.
Oh well, I can hear my soapbox creaking under the weight of my
ponderous pontifications. Guess I'll climb down and go have lunch. I
hear some mini-raviolis calling my name. :)
Chris McKinley
Nobody
>
> Who out there would like to share some of their training ideas, drills or
> approaches to realism in training?
>
> KevinM
>
Hi Kevin!
Well, alot of these points may sound simplistic but they are
methods I have been using to really improve the art that I practice.
I'll explain as I go so bear with me...
1) Using a heavy bag to practice arm,leg,knee,elbow strikes. It
seems like one of those really obvious things, however, in my opinion not
enough time is spent in this area of training. When I first started FMA
I had never worked with a heavy bag before, although I was quite quick in
striking from previous training. I had developed a bad habit. As a
result of sparring sessions at semi-contact, I had trained myself to not
actually apply force to my target upon impact. It sounds stupid, but I
really did have to learn how to add impact as well as speed to my
strikes. By working a heavy bag each class (and it doesn't have to be
for a long time, believe me , 10 min. of honest bag work and you are
tired) I am curing the first problem and developing much greater strength
in the musculature that assists in the projection of force through a
target (ie. Punching force is greatly increased by the development
of various back muscles that keep the impact from "backing up on you" as
you hit). Try this out. It's easy to implement into a routine and very
effective.
2) My club believes that there is no exception to the real thing
when training. Every now and then we put on headgear, regulation gloves,
and a mouthpiece and go at it. It's friendly in the fact that if you
fall to the mat you aren't beaten on the way down, but otherwise it gets
pretty rough. This can be a real eye-opener for you, but is exceptional
when used to cure a "punch-shy" method of fighting. We all like to
pretend that we'll never get tagged by our opponent, we'll rush in and
out like the wind leaving the bad guy flat on his butt. I doubt it. We
need to practice getting hit and still functioning like fighters. It
isn't instinctive, it needs to be learned... you just cannot turtle up in
a real fight and hope your opponent goes away. You have to know what it
feels like to take a hit and still keep you wits with you.
The downside here is that many techniques cannot be initiated with
gloves on. See below.
3) We also practice a sort of "anything goes" free wrestling as
well. Technique is sought after but whatever works to get a submission
is allowed. There is light striking in order to open up targets but it
is closer to 1/2 contact than an actual hit. This tends to be gentler
than the full contact bouts, but it allows you to attempt to land sweeps,
throws, and locks on someone who simply isn't interested in it happening
to them. This is also very educational. When practicing
grappling/control techniques in class you may feel as if you are really
getting the hang of it, only to attempt it for real and see you need more
work.
4) In class when practicing repetition of technique (ie. Frontkick
21, 22, 23...) we tend to use traditional stances half the time and a
boxing stance the rest. When in the boxing stance we are encouraged to
be in motion, rocking as well as bobbing and weaving. The instructor's
count here becomes irregularly timed so you are being caught off guard
each time a repetition is called. My instructors logic is that you will
have to be able to kick/strike effectively from many positions and
variations which are not practiced in class or predictable in the world.
As well, you will never have a beautiful tempo to sound off you strikes.
He feels this is a good way to familiarize us with firing off technique
on the fly. It helps alot with sparring. I like it alot as well.
5) Lastly, a simple drill we practice is moving everyone into a
small circle, and placing one person into the center. The person in the
center must quickly and effectively defend themself from random attacks
from around the circle. Many times enough space is left to go to the
ground with your opponent if you like, however, you have have another
person called in on you as you do. This is a fun game in class, but it
helps you to learn to react instinctively. It's a winner with the
younger students.
Ok.
Those are just a few of the neat things my club uses to help us learn.
I know some of it seems to be really obvious, but it just cannot be all
that obvious as I found it new and origional when it was introduced to
me. I hope some of it is worthwhile for you!
Have a nice day!
Nobody.
--
... rejoice in knowing that the taint of wisdom is wiped
clean as one aspires to become a true ignorant ...
Scott
Chris and Kayci McKinley wrote in message <3521F0...@swbell.net>...
>KMMahoney wrote:
>
> I've got so much to say that I could write another book on the
>topic.
Another book??? If you've written any books, Chris, I am interested in what
you have.
If I had to be remembered for only one phrase (and I probably
>will), it would be the mantra I'm known for: Physics & Physiology over
>Magic & Mysticism. Go git yerself an edjimicashun. Realize that
>subjective and often supernatural cultural beliefs have always been
>Cuisinarted in with effective techniques in the martial arts.
>Separating the wheat from the chaff is a matter of individual
>definition, but the twin yardsticks of physics and physiology are a good
>place to start the filtering process.
>
> That's about all I'll add to the subject right now. I'm just not
>enough in the mood to make more enemies tonight to say much else. Or be
>labelled a heretic for the gazillionth time.
Not from me you won't be called heretic.
>
> Chris McKinley
Scott
Chris and Kayci McKinley
I wrote a book in '94 called Mind of a Warrior. It's the first book
to apply Neuro-Linguistic Programming and other Accelerated Learning
Technologies to the learning and practice of the martial arts. I'm
currently working on a revised 2nd edition to be finished at the end of
Summer. Thanks for the interest.
Chris McKinley
kung fool
in order to practice my street fighting skills in a close to real life
situation, I like to go down to the local rifle range, stand in front of
the targets, and practice bleeding profusely..= )
KMMahoney <kmma...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199803312156...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> Hey folks,
>
> What obviously (imho) sets most real fighters apart from most MA
practicioners
> is the element of realism in their combat training. For example: boxers
are
> usually fairly tough because they are used to being in the ring with
somebody
> trying to take their heads off, specials forces types are generally
pretty
> leathal because they are preparing for or have been in real combat
situations
> where their life is on the line.
>
Scott
Chris and Kayci McKinley wrote in message <3522ED...@swbell.net>...
>Scott wrote:
>> Scott
>Dear Scott,
>
> I wrote a book in '94 called Mind of a Warrior. It's the first book
>to apply Neuro-Linguistic Programming and other Accelerated Learning
>Technologies to the learning and practice of the martial arts. I'm
>currently working on a revised 2nd edition to be finished at the end of
>Summer. Thanks for the interest.
>
> Chris McKinley
Your welcome. I want a copy and can I have it signed ;-)
Scott
Chas
kevinm wrote:
> > Who out there would like to share some of their training ideas, drills or
> > approaches to realism in training?
> >
> > KevinM
> >
A couple of my more active students go to the mosh pits and work
techniques (lightly) - when they want to make it more interesting, they
take a woman and 'protect' her in the pit.
chas
Chris and Kayci McKinley
Best I can do at this point is wire you a cybercopy when I get it
finished. When the printed version comes out is not up to me
unfortunately. Could be several months after I submit.
Chris McKinley
Gerald Moffatt
I'm not following up this particular post - it just seemed a good place to
jump aboard.
One hobby horse of mine with respect to MA is environmental training for
'combat realism.' So many circumstances are very different from a dojo. To
list some:
* a fight in a car
* a fight in a crowded bar (lots of people and furniture)
* a fight when you start from an awkward position (e.g., dancing with a girl
draped all over you)
* a fight when you are not at your best (e.g., a bit drunk)
* a fight when you are wearing heavy winter clothing
I haven't figured out how to practice for all of these (should there be
'fighting while drunk' night at the dojo?) but in so many of these you do not
get to start from an 'opening stance' etc. And it's one reason I favour
mastering 'close fighting.'
As just one example: It's a bitch to get quickly engage someone who runs up to
your car or escape him when you must disentangle yourself from the seat belt.
Regards,
Richard Lancashire
Gerald Moffatt wrote:
> One hobby horse of mine with respect to MA is environmental training for
> 'combat realism.' So many circumstances are very different from a dojo. To
> list some:
<snip>
> I haven't figured out how to practice for all of these (should there be
> 'fighting while drunk' night at the dojo?) but in so many of these you do not
> get to start from an 'opening stance' etc. And it's one reason I favour
> mastering 'close fighting.'
How about fighting from chairs? Either restrict the attacker to
attacking from one side and the defender to sitting down to simulate a
car fight (although you can't drag anyone through a window, slam their
hands in the door or drive off then) or give the attacker one free
attack after which the defender can get up.
Just a thought.
Rich
Johnny Kincaide
I just saw something about Accelerated Learning and BJJ. Is this your project?
Johnny Kincaide
I usually walk through TYRONE 100's neighborhood with $20 bills hanging out of
my pockets.
Johnny Kincaide
What MA do you practice? Sounds good.
<<3) We also practice a sort of "anything goes" free wrestling as well.
Technique is sought after but whatever works to get a submission
> is allowed. There is light striking in order to open up targets but it
> is closer to 1/2 contact than an actual hit. This tends to be gentler
> than the full contact bouts, but it allows you to attempt to land sweeps,
> throws, and locks on someone who simply isn't interested in it happening
> to them. This is also very educational. When practicing
> grappling/control techniques in class you may feel as if you are really
> getting the hang of it, only to attempt it for real and see you need more
> work.>>
You could also spar with Pancrase rules, i.e. no closed fist strikes to the
head, no elbows, no heel hooks, etc.
Johnny Kincaide
Richard Lancashire wrote:
> How about fighting from chairs?
This is commonly taught at the Jerry Springer Self-Defense Academy.
>
Vandit Kalia
Gerald Moffatt (moffattg.s...@cadvision.com) wrote:
: * a fight in a crowded bar (lots of people and furniture)
The good thing about a fight in a bar is - it doesnt last long.
: * a fight when you start from an awkward position (e.g., dancing with a girl
: draped all over you)
Yeah, DAMN it - I was doing the promenade and she HAD to go do the
dosey-do!
: * a fight when you are not at your best (e.g., a bit drunk)
: I haven't figured out how to practice for all of these (should there be
: 'fighting while drunk' night at the dojo?) but in so many of these you do not
: get to start from an 'opening stance' etc. And it's one reason I favour
: mastering 'close fighting.'
There is no different STYLE you learn - the same techniques with
variations. If you MASTER the techniques, as opposed to learning the
movements, you can adapt as you go. Think of a language (my favorite
analogy): you dont need a separate language when discussing different
subjects with different people.
Also, sparring styles are not related to fighting styles.
Vandit
--
Vandit Kalia GO FLYERS!!!!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any fool can make a painting, it takes a wise man to sell one
Nobody
In article <35237562...@hotmail.com>, john...@hotmail.com says...
> What MA do you practice? Sounds good.
I'm learning Modern Arnis beneath Guru Alan Stembridge. I'm lucky
in that he has his 2nd degree in Modern Arnis and is currently working on
his 1st in Kodokan Judo. He's a really nice guy who loves to try all
sorts of stuff in class and in the ring. Modern Arnis is kinda like JKD
though, not all clubs emphasize the same stuff.
> You could also spar with Pancrase rules, i.e. no closed fist strikes to the
> head, no elbows, no heel hooks, etc.
Sounds pretty promising! Thanks!
Scott
Chris and Kayci McKinley wrote in message <352321...@swbell.net>...
>Dear Scott,
>
> Best I can do at this point is wire you a cybercopy when I get it
>finished. When the printed version comes out is not up to me
>unfortunately. Could be several months after I submit.
Chris, I would like to buy a copy of the '94 edition (Mind of a Warrior) and
a copy of the second edition when it comes out.
Scott
Don Wagner
We had a member of our school work as a manager in a movie theater.
When he heard that they were going to change the decor and seats he
invited us in to try some Cinema-Fu. It was pretty tough and the
results were a lot of minor yet painful injuries (and messy clothes).
;-)
--Don--
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
KMMahoney
Hey Chris,
All are very good and basic points. A few thoughts follow.
>Dear Kevin,
>
> Okay, two big basic things. After you get past your introductory
>years to MA, train with REALISTIC attacks and responses to those
>attacks. F'rinstance, no one will ever attack anybody with a
>traditional front punch from a static front stance and then just
>continue to stand there motionless while you whup up on him. It just
>doesn't happen. Great for training the basic concepts to the newbies,
>not for real.
Absolutely. We drill (once a technique is nailed down) with full speed full
force punches, kicks and attacks. To groove a particular feel or look on
defense and counter we will isolate an attack (say a jab or cross, jab/cross
combo, jab/front stomp, knike thrust, stick strike and so on) and deal with it
at full agression. No waiting for anybody to get set, just move, throw and
counter. From here we will go to counter the counter, and then counter that,
and so on. It often looks like sparring but there is a real difference. We try
to set up as many different scebarios as possible and run them at full speed.
Counters are not limited or necessarily predetermined, they pan be a block or
parry, block trap strike, parry and clinch, applied chin na and so on. We don't
limit fighting drills to either just striking or just grappling, but take what
comes naturally - often times which means somebody or both end up on the
ground. We even practice running away. Hey, I'm not proud.
>
> That's why I like the FMA concept of the witik (strike and pull
>back). Apply that to your training partner's punches and see how much
>harder they are to deal with. Also, try circling each other before the
>uke (Japanese for poor sap who gets clobbered in demonstrations)
>launches the punch. Still harder to deal with yet still more real.
Exactly. Lots more of course. Try the attacks from behind or from a hiding spot
too.
>
> The constant movement that occurs in real combat is why the concept
>of dominating your opponent's center is so important for in-fighting.
>To my taste, most traditional MA's ignore these factors shamefully in
>teaching even the beginners. Fighting is not simple, formulaic, and
>easy, and shouldn't be taught as if it were.
Right again. Although I enjoy my traditional forms training, my emphasis has
always been on reality. Will it work in the lab? I'm thankfull for a background
in western boxing and street fights for allowing me to always see the
difference (and the similarities and realities which do exist in forms training
as well).
>
> One of my forte's (wish I could have one that didn't garner me so
>many enemies) is analyzing traditional techniques and evaluating them
>for realism.
Hey. Bruce did a lot of this and made a lot of movies and money (as well as
enemies). When it comes to his MA, I admire what he saw and said.
In my personal life, I am asked to do this quite often.
>Unfortunately, when the truth comes out, I send people away either
>pissed off at me or disillusioned with their art or both.
>
> Oh well, I can hear my soapbox creaking under the weight of my
>ponderous pontifications. Guess I'll climb down and go have lunch. I
>hear some mini-raviolis calling my name. :)
>
I'm a spaghettios man myself.
> Chris McKinley
Peace,
KevinM
KMMahoney
>I'm not following up this particular post - it just seemed a good place to
>jump aboard.
>
>One hobby horse of mine with respect to MA is environmental training for
>'combat realism.' So many circumstances are very different from a dojo. To
>list some:
>
>* a fight in a crowded bar (lots of people and furniture)
>draped all over you)
>
>I haven't figured out how to practice for all of these (should there be
>'fighting while drunk' night at the dojo?) but in so many of these you do not
>
>get to start from an 'opening stance' etc. And it's one reason I favour
>mastering 'close fighting.'
>
>to
>your car or escape him when you must disentangle yourself from the seat belt.
>
>
>Regards,
Another good post! In fact I'm giving some of these scenarios a lot of thought.
Something we havew discussed but I haven't organised yet is a night of drunken
training. Spend some time doing the same hard training that we usually do
while some of us consume drinks and experience what it is like to pull some of
this stuff off while impaired.
KMMahoney
>
>How about fighting from chairs? Either restrict the attacker to
>attacking from one side and the defender to sitting down to simulate a
>car fight (although you can't drag anyone through a window, slam their
>hands in the door or drive off then) or give the attacker one free
>attack after which the defender can get up.
>
>Just a thought.
>
>Rich
Don't forget running them over once you've (um) disabled them. Of course, you
need to be in a real car for this.
KevinM
KMMahoney
>well. Technique is sought after but whatever works to get a submission
>is allowed. There is light striking in order to open up targets but it
>is closer to 1/2 contact than an actual hit. This tends to be gentler
>than the full contact bouts, but it allows you to attempt to land sweeps,
>throws, and locks on someone who simply isn't interested in it happening
>to them. This is also very educational. When practicing
>grappling/control techniques in class you may feel as if you are really
>getting the hang of it, only to attempt it for real and see you need more
>work.
>
Certainly all good points and ideas. A little time at an inner city boxing club
will accomplish a lot of what you're geting at in your 2nd point. You can even
fell what it's like to fight after you've been knocked the f_ck out.
We often put on the head gear and kenpo gloves and go full at it. We stop when
somebody taps or screams stop. No restrictions on stuiking to striking or
grappling. This helps create a somewhat realistic fight.
KevinM
KMMahoney
>A couple of my more active students go to the mosh pits and work
>techniques (lightly) - when they want to make it more interesting, they
>take a woman and 'protect' her in the pit.
>chas
Chas, of this world I know nothing. I thought that was dancing they were doing.
I can bring knives?
KevinM
KMMahoney
>
>I usually walk through TYRONE 100's neighborhood with $20 bills hanging out
>of
>my pockets.
>
>
As far as I'm concerned you can leave that shit out of this, smart ass.
KevinM
Please forgive me if I have misunderstood your post and it was not meant as a
racial slur.
Richard Lancashire
KMMahoney wrote:
> We often put on the head gear and kenpo gloves and go full at it. We stop when
> somebody taps or screams stop.
Isn't it usually a bit late once the screams stop? ;)
Rich
Richard Lancashire
KMMahoney wrote:
> Another good post! In fact I'm giving some of these scenarios a lot of thought.
> Something we havew discussed but I haven't organised yet is a night of drunken
> training. Spend some time doing the same hard training that we usually do
> while some of us consume drinks and experience what it is like to pull some of
> this stuff off while impaired.
Drinking - even a comparatively little bit - is a great way to lose
about fifty percent of your fitness, in my experience. I'd tend to stick
to just practicing techniques when drunk rather than going for a workout
and basics too...
:oP
Rich
Don Wagner
kmma...@aol.com (KMMahoney) wrote:
Trick question! You should _always_ bring knives.
--Don--
Clones are people two.
Don Wagner
kmma...@aol.com (KMMahoney) wrote:
I think he meant it more as a personal affront to our little friend.
;-)
Johnny Kincaide
It really says something about the insidious nature of political correctness
when people feel the need to attach disclaimers to insults.
Chas
KMMahoney wrote:
>
> >
> >I usually walk through TYRONE 100's neighborhood with $20 bills hanging out
> >of
> >my pockets.
> >
> >
>
> KevinM
>
> Please forgive me if I have misunderstood your post and it was not meant as a
> racial slur.
just for fun, here's some stuff I wrote on a research project:
Street Smarts: Songs your Mother Never Sang
copyright 1994 Chas Clements
1. Never take candy from a stranger.
2. Never give a mugger an even break.
3. Never go anywhere unarmed.
4. Never get drunk in public, if at all.
5. Never show money,drugs,jewelry or weapons to anyone.
6. Never carry all of your money in one place.
7. Never make a bet you can't cover; now.
8. Never buy a Rolex that rattles.
9. Never get into a game with only strangers.
10.Never take a marker (promissory note) that you're not willing to kill
over.
11.Never hustle anyone not of your own race.
12.Never trust a cop.
13.Never trust a junkie.
14 Never trust a fat man.
15 Never trust a runaway (from anything, at any age.)
16 Never trust a gangbanger (even if it's your gang).
17 Never date anyone that you wouldn't introduce to your mother.
18.Never do crime where you live.
19 Never do crime with a partner.
20 Never do crime with a lover.
21 Never cop out to anything.
22 Never steal from a church, a friend, an old person,child or cripple.
23 Never do violence without cause.
24 Never snitch. Never.
25 Never lend a car,a weapon or your apartment.
26 Never do a Felony as a favor, or out of a sense of obligation.
27.Never do drugs with strangers.
28 Never point an unloaded gun.
29.Never start a fight in a neighborhood bar.
30 Never front drugs.
31.Never front money.
32.Never sell drugs on the street.
33 Never buy drugs on the street.
34.Never trust a lawyer.
35.Read #34 again.
Chris and Kayci McKinley
Johnny Kincaide wrote:
>
> I just saw something about Accelerated Learning and BJJ. Is this your project?
I don't know to whom you directed your question, but it happens to be
my cup o' tea. I believe you probably saw the Accelerated Learning/BJJ
reference on the BJJ site www.blast.net/mdorio. The book is by Dr.
David Ripley DC. Dr. Ripley's website mentions that he uses Tony
Buzan's Mind Mapping, Rapid Detail, Autogenics, and Superlearning, which
is based on Dr. Georgi Lozanov's work.
I have used all four of these technologies, and others, for a number
of years. Autogenics, in particular, deals with visualization
techniques for the athlete. It was developed by Dr. Johannas Schultz in
the 60's. Since then, other technologies have been developed. I work
in a field called Neuro-Linguistic Programming, which does very detailed
work in visualization techniques. In that field, I am considered an
authority on the applications of NLP and other Accelerated Learning
technologies to the martial arts and combat science.
If you have any questions, I will be happy to answer that which I
can. Love, Luck & Self-Knowledge to you.
Chris McKinley
KMMahoney
Rich, tears in eyes and rolling on floor. But, yeah, it's too late then.
KevinM
KMMahoney
>It really says something about the insidious nature of political correctness
>when people feel the need to attach disclaimers to insults.
>
>KMMahoney wrote:
>
>> KevinM
>>
>> Please forgive me if I have misunderstood your post and it was not meant as
>a
>> racial slur.
>
>
>
>
Then fuck off.
KevinM
If that's OK?
Otter
> Clones are people two.
Gotta be able to sneak them in though. I went to a Metallica concert
last spring; well, I hadn't been to rock concert in about 5 or 6 years,
and didn't know that they were doing metal detector searches on people.
Of course, my SAK made the gadget go "BEEEEEEEP", and they took it. Of
course I made them give me a receipt so I could go claim it after the
show (the guard looked a little ticked :)
Johnny Kincaide
KMMahoney wrote:
> Then fuck off.
> KevinM
> If that's OK?
I have a sneaking suspicion that you're upset about something I said.
Chas
Otter wrote:
>
> Don Wagner wrote:
> >
> > kmma...@aol.com (KMMahoney) wrote:
> >
> > >>A couple of my more active students go to the mosh pits and work
> > >>techniques (lightly) - when they want to make it more interesting, they
> > >>take a woman and 'protect' her in the pit.
> > >>chas
> > >
> > >Chas, of this world I know nothing. I thought that was dancing they were doing.
> > >I can bring knives?
> > >KevinM
> >
> > Trick question! You should _always_ bring knives.
> > --Don--
> > Clones are people two.
>
> Gotta be able to sneak them in though.
> course I made them give me a receipt so I could go claim it after the
> show (the guard looked a little ticked :)
A lot of people depend on body armor things and surreptitious weapons
(or agree in their own minds to suspend their deepest paranoia).
I sure have bought a lot of knives confiscated by cops and security
guards- it's a nice little perc for them- $10 each by the count. A good
cop, making a lot of profile stops, can make $40-$50 a day if he doesn't
turn in the perps or write a ticket and need evidence. They just
confiscate them, give the boob a 'warning' (and it's a good one; 'don't
let me catch you with a knife again- or I'll take it too.') and sell the
knives.
The guys that are going out and doing this ought to issue a knife to
their opponents just to even things up. :-) I got some rough kids.
chas
Otter
Hey, if you get in any confiscated AFCKs (or anything else kewl) for
$10, let me know! :) Do you accept personal checks? (...or is that #36
on the "Street Tips" list ;)
-- Otter
TravIsGod
We are just going to HAVE to get you over this anti-lawyer paranoia that you
seem to be suffering from!
Trav
Evangelos Pantelis
On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Don Wagner wrote:
> kmma...@aol.com (KMMahoney) wrote:
>
> >>A couple of my more active students go to the mosh pits and work
> >>techniques (lightly) - when they want to make it more interesting, they
> >>take a woman and 'protect' her in the pit.
> >>chas
> >
> >Chas, of this world I know nothing. I thought that was dancing they were doing.
> >I can bring knives?
> >KevinM
>
> Trick question! You should _always_ bring knives.
> --Don--
> Clones are people two.
>
Allways bringing a knife to a gun fight I see.
Pathfinder
"when you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there"
Chas
Taro Sumitomo wrote:
>
> Hmm, I'm not sure where you're coming from here Chas. As a sometime
> "moshing enthusiast", I'll point out that most of the kids are just out to
> have a good time, and despite appearances, there is very little violence.
>
> Admittedly, there are bands with followings who have _reputations_ for
> violent behaviour, but as far as the mainstream is concerned, trouble is
> very rare.
My guys are deliberately picking hard places to go and goofing with the
roughest people there. They don't use any harsh stuff; just floor
positioning, deflections and evasions, balance and bodyweight tricks,
and the percussion to back it up if someone gets offended. Its just for
fun and training, no hard feelings- my guys are all easy to get along
with.
>
> From a technical POV, I find moshing good for developing balance and
> learning to "flow" with energy, rather than fight it, but of course I'm
> not exactly doing it to become a better MAist now.
sounds like ma to me- if you added breathing, it would train like some
silat I know of.
>
> ts
ts to you too ;-)
chas
Chris and Kayci McKinley
Don Wagner wrote:
>
> Evangelos Pantelis <pant...@acsu.buffalo.edu> wrote:
>
> >
> >On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Don Wagner wrote:
> >> Trick question! You should _always_ bring knives.
> >> --Don--
> >> Clones are people two.
>
> > Allways bringing a knife to a gun fight I see.
>
> --Don--
> The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Always bring an MP5 SDA4 to a pistol fight.
Chris McKinley
Chris and Kayci McKinley
Don Wagner wrote:
>
> Otter <mus...@wcoil.com> wrote:
>
> >Don Wagner wrote:
> >> Trick question! You should _always_ bring knives.
> >> --Don--
> >> Clones are people two.
>
> >last spring; well, I hadn't been to rock concert in about 5 or 6 years,
> >and didn't know that they were doing metal detector searches on people.
> >course I made them give me a receipt so I could go claim it after the
> >show (the guard looked a little ticked :)
>
>
> Get one of the non-metallica ;-) thingies, aka CIA Letter Openers
> <gak>, sharpen the thing and learn to carry and draw it. It's better
> then nothing and you can go anywhere with it if you conceal it
> properly.
> --Don--
> The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Uh-oh, Don. Now don't go putting copolymer/ceramic shoehorn ideas in
their pretty little heads. :)
Chris McKinley
Taro Sumitomo
Hmm, I'm not sure where you're coming from here Chas. As a sometime
"moshing enthusiast", I'll point out that most of the kids are just out to
have a good time, and despite appearances, there is very little violence.
Admittedly, there are bands with followings who have _reputations_ for
violent behaviour, but as far as the mainstream is concerned, trouble is
very rare.
From a technical POV, I find moshing good for developing balance and
learning to "flow" with energy, rather than fight it, but of course I'm
not exactly doing it to become a better MAist now.
ts
Don Wagner
Don Wagner
Evangelos Pantelis <pant...@acsu.buffalo.edu> wrote:
>
>On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Don Wagner wrote:
>> Trick question! You should _always_ bring knives.
>> --Don--
>> Clones are people two.
> Allways bringing a knife to a gun fight I see.
Along with your guns.
Richard Lancashire
Chris and Kayci McKinley wrote:
> > Get one of the non-metallica ;-) thingies, aka CIA Letter Openers
> > <gak>, sharpen the thing and learn to carry and draw it. It's better
> > then nothing and you can go anywhere with it if you conceal it
> Uh-oh, Don. Now don't go putting copolymer/ceramic shoehorn ideas in
> their pretty little heads. :)
I did Materials Science as the bulk of my degree, so I'm quite
interested in this sort of thing. I remember hearing about an
all-ceramic blade (I think it hade a toughened Zirconia core and
sapphire edge), is there much of this sort of thing about?
:oP
rich
Don Wagner
Richard Lancashire <r.b.lan...@ncl.ac.uk> wrote:
>I did Materials Science as the bulk of my degree, so I'm quite
>interested in this sort of thing. I remember hearing about an
>all-ceramic blade (I think it hade a toughened Zirconia core and
>sapphire edge), is there much of this sort of thing about?
>
>:oP
>rich
All the big discount mail order places have them in a greater or
lesser degree. One of the best I saw was a plastic version of a
"Devil Dart". Essentially an ice pick.
Don Wagner
Chris and Kayci McKinley <Thg...@swbell.net> wrote:
> Uh-oh, Don. Now don't go putting copolymer/ceramic shoehorn ideas in
>their pretty little heads. :)
>
If they're gonna play, they might as well play correctly.
;-)
Chris and Kayci McKinley
Richard Lancashire wrote:
>
> Chris and Kayci McKinley wrote:
>
> > > Get one of the non-metallica ;-) thingies, aka CIA Letter Openers
> > > <gak>, sharpen the thing and learn to carry and draw it. It's better
> > > then nothing and you can go anywhere with it if you conceal it
>
> > their pretty little heads. :)
>
> interested in this sort of thing. I remember hearing about an
> all-ceramic blade (I think it hade a toughened Zirconia core and
> sapphire edge), is there much of this sort of thing about?
>
> :oP
> rich
dream. You're back in Kansas now, with Auntie Em. Try not to worry
your pretty little head with these silly notions. Ssshhh, try to rest,
my dear. It's all over now. ;)
Chris McKinley
Chas
Chris and Kayci McKinley wrote:
> > I did Materials Science as the bulk of my degree, so I'm quite
> > interested in this sort of thing. I remember hearing about an
> > all-ceramic blade (I think it hade a toughened Zirconia core and
> > sapphire edge), is there much of this sort of thing about?
> >
> > :oP
> > rich
Mad Dog Knives has a nearly $500 (Frequent Flyer ?) ceramic knife that
will go through metal detectors (the government models will, civilians
can't get *that* model- they will be satisfied with one with a metal
strip in it for 'security' purposes) and is rated at about 40% the
strength of comparable steel. It is interesting that the strip was
inserted and the other product restricted without the gubmint asking
that it be done. I guess civilians are less likely to need a ($500)
surreptitious defense tool. I, for one, appreciate his reservations
about allowing 'just anybody' to rush off and buy an obvious
assaultknife like that one- it has no other useful purpose than killing
people. It's sneaky and could be used to effect hijackings or prisoner
breakouts like in that movie.
Why someone would want a 40% knife, with a strip in it to defeat its'
only possible purpose, I wouldn't really know; break the knife, use the
strip, I guess.
Boker Knives makes a ceramic (at well under $500) knife. there might be
some more.
The composites; carbon fibre, fiberglas, kevlar stuff, wood, plastics,
glass- are one use tools anyway. They are usually shaped as darts,
push-daggers, boot daggers and a pretty good 'ice-scraper' that would
definily leave a mark in the morning.
Our local 'porcelain' plant, Coors, has been very active in the
production of high strength, ductile ceramics. I don't know anymore than
that; nosecone research.
Chas
TravIsGod
>I did Materials Science as the bulk of my degree, so I'm quite
>interested in this sort of thing. I remember hearing about an
>all-ceramic blade (I think it hade a toughened Zirconia core and
>sapphire edge), is there much of this sort of thing about?
>
>:oP
>rich
>
>
Hey, cool major....actually Kyocera makes a big ceramic chef knife for $170. I
want to get my hands on one for my gourmet other...they say they never need
sharpening.
Trav
Richard Lancashire
TravIsGod wrote:
> >I did Materials Science as the bulk of my degree, so I'm quite
> >interested in this sort of thing. I remember hearing about an
> >all-ceramic blade (I think it hade a toughened Zirconia core and
> >sapphire edge), is there much of this sort of thing about?
> Hey, cool major....actually Kyocera makes a big ceramic chef knife for $170. I
> want to get my hands on one for my gourmet other...they say they never need
> sharpening.
Probably because they snap before the go blunt ;). There was a surface
science course too which avoided the whole topic (there are probably
more prestigious areas of engineering, after all), but I could see a
great scope for improving blade durability there.
:oP
Rich Nerd
Chris and Kayci McKinley
TravIsGod wrote:
>
> >I did Materials Science as the bulk of my degree, so I'm quite
> >interested in this sort of thing. I remember hearing about an
> >all-ceramic blade (I think it hade a toughened Zirconia core and
> >sapphire edge), is there much of this sort of thing about?
> >
> >rich
> >
> >
>
> Hey, cool major....actually Kyocera makes a big ceramic chef knife for $170. I
> want to get my hands on one for my gourmet other...they say they never need
> sharpening.
>
Dear Trav,
They're also great for growing Chia pets, too! ;)
Chris McKinley
MarcusW579
<<From: kmma...@aol.com (KMMahoney)
Date: Tue, Mar 31, 1998 16:56
Message-id: <199803312156...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
Hey folks,
What obviously (imho) sets most real fighters apart from most MA practicioners
is the element of realism in their combat training. For example: boxers are
usually fairly tough because they are used to being in the ring with somebody
trying to take their heads off, specials forces types are generally pretty
leathal because they are preparing for or have been in real combat situations
where their life is on the line.
Who out there would like to share some of their training ideas, drills or
approaches to realism in training?
KevinM
>>
Hello Kevin -- Your students are lucky to have you teaching them. After 30
some odd years in and around the martial arts, I’ve seen a few instructors.
It’s the sign of a good instructor when he or she goes out to find even more
ways to challenge and grow his students. It’s also the sign of healthy
self-confidence and self-respect. There’s some good ideas posted already, so
I’ll just offer a couple of ideas I’ve tested in civilian, military and police
contexts -- both as an operator and as an instructor.
There’s at least two parts to realistic combat training: the first has to do
with technical fidelity in the simulation. What that means is training and
testing your skill set in the environment you expect to use the skills in. If
your focus is on practical combative skills (and let me throw this in
parenthetically -- I’ve trained as a martial artist and I’ve trained as a
soldier. Martial arts as practiced classically is a PROCESS -- the training is
the end result, and combat proficiency, willingness and so on are by-products
of that training way. Combatives practiced as usable “street” skills are
trained from the beginning to be immediately usable in the combat environment
-- IMHO), then it make sense to practice with contact against dynamic targets
(moving and mobile) in a variety of scenarios, dressed in the clothing and
wearing the shoes you’ll have on in the end-use environment. Back in the late
60s and early 70s when I was training kajukenbo and won hop kuen do in San
Jose, we had a regular training night where we showed up in street clothes (I
was bouncing in a disco then, so that meant I showed up in platform shoes and
polyester!), went into the gym with the lights out, and trained. we put in a
strobe light, loud music, a bunch of tables and chairs we’d scrounged, and
without warm-ups, practiced responding to various attacks from seated
positions, standing at the bar, dancing (!), defending someone else, taking a
guy out fast, multiple attackers, weapon attacks, both using and defending
against beer bottles, ashtrays, glasses, pool cues, pool balls, knives, clubs,
guns etc. We often brought our girlfriends down to play different roles in our
scenarios as well. What this does is condition the brain to using your skills
in a “real-world” environment, instead of anchoring the skill to the gym.
It’s interesting to me today to see how the military and special operations
tactical training is getting around to doing the same thing that martial
artists were doing back then.
In terms of practical immediate applications to your students: Have them do a
combative oriented session without warm-up dressed as they are during the day.
Business suit if that’s appropriate, doc martens and shorts if that’s
appropriate. Ask them what kind of improvised weapons are available in their
environment and set some up. Set up the training space to represent different
places: bedroom, office, whatever. The best thing, if you can do it in your
area, is to take the training out of the gym and into the street or public
someplace. Attacks should be random, and the training partners should take
care to “act out” the verbalization and physiology of a real attacker in a
series of random attacks.
The second part is emotional/mental fidelity in the simulation. Without going
into all the neuropsychology of state-dependent learning, etc., let me
summarize it like this: The retention of critical skills like fighting skills
is affected by the emotional/mental state of the learner while learning the
skill. You sound as though you’ve been around and successfully tested your
skills in a venue or two -- have you ever seen or known somebody who was really
“good” at their martial arts in the gym, but couldn’t fight on the street?
When you were actually fighting someone, where you in the same emotional/mental
state you were when you train in the gym? Or did you, after your combative
experiences, find a way to access that skill and the fighting state
simultaneously? I’d guess the latter. You can accelerate your student’s
performance and increase their retention of their fighting skills by teaching
them how to manage that state while they train. IMPACT, the full-contact
system that grew out of Model Mugging, has quantified the results of training
in what they call the “adrenaline state”, which they induce by highly realistic
role-plays using trained role players in a padded suit which allows for
full-contact by the student against the role-player. They followed up with
5000 students over five years in a study, and found that the retention of the
skills learned (without any subsequent practice!) was almost as high after five
years as immediately after the traiing course. this was compared to
traditional martial arts instruction, where there was a rapid fall-off in the
skill retention when regular training ceased. The key element is anchoring
those skills to the appropriate state. Without getting into all the
neuro-linguistic programming stuff I use in designing training, I’d suggest you
try this: Strike a thai pad or heavy bag in the way you normally would in
training. Then stop. Take a moment and visualize something that would make
you fighting mad -- maybe someone hurting your woman or a child. Make that
picture big and bright, add the sounds of someone you love in pain or fear,
take the feeling that arouses in you and double it. Then double it again. Now
hit that pad as though it’s the person you visualize hurting your loved ones.
Do you notice a difference in the power of your strike and how you feel
striking? I taught a group of kali/muy thai practicioner’s a seires of
techniques like this, and they all report that it increased the intensity of
their work-outs radically -- and that they found themselves exhausted much
sooner than previously. Again, without going into all the neurophysiology of
it, how the emotional content and signal in the amygdala part of the brain
activates and releases more energy to the muscles and simultaneously locks the
motor skill in with the desired state, you’ll find that students who practices
in this way will find their combative skill retention going through the roof.
Just a few ideas, for what it’s worth. Hope you find them of use. Best to
you.
cheers, Marcus
Musashi
See if you like this guy's page
http://www.geocities.com/9607/Pipeline/9607/index.html
KMMahoney wrote in message
<199803312156...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
COMBATI...@webtv.net
In the most basic terms possible the theory of specificity is the rule
here, the more realistic the training, the greater the carryover to
realistic combat situations. Street defense is simple, brutal, quick,
offensive and to the point. It is very martial and very little art.
The only thing pretty about real fighting is survival.
Your Mind is You're Ultimate Weapon
Keep it Loaded.
Chris and Kayci McKinley
The URL you gave only takes you to a Geocities Homepage. How about
some more specific directions?
Chris McKinley
KMMahoney
Dear Marcus,
This is a fantastic post! Thank you. I have gone to extents thinking up and
applying many types of physical elements into the realism aspects of our
training, but I think you have shed light on they key psycological ingredient
needed. My intention is to try this approach myself (of course I have put
myself in this mental state at times during training but not with the
predetermination to do so consistantly) and apply it to my teaching. I've got a
hunch that as worn out as some of the guys get after a physical session, they
are going to feel a lot more worn out once they've gotten themselves to get
"worked up" on command.
BTW, you gave my kind of a nostolgic flash back with all your talk about
discos, polyester, platforms and chicks watching you train. You sure there
weren't drugs involved? LingOL. Of course I was just a kid back then so I can
only guess.
Thanks again.
KevinM
KMMahoney
>Dear Kevin,
>
> The URL you gave only takes you to a Geocities Homepage. How about
>some more specific directions?
>
> Chris McKinley
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Hey Chris,
This wasn't my post so I can't help you out. I was interested myself.
Take care,
KevinM
Otter
> >> Trick question! You should _always_ bring knives.
> >> --Don--
> >> Clones are people two.
>
> >last spring; well, I hadn't been to rock concert in about 5 or 6 years,
> >and didn't know that they were doing metal detector searches on people.
> >Of course, my SAK made the gadget go "BEEEEEEEP", and they took it. Of
> >course I made them give me a receipt so I could go claim it after the
> >show (the guard looked a little ticked :)
>
> Duh Otter. ;-)
Yeah, sometimes I think I should officially change my name to that!
>
> Get one of the non-metallica ;-) thingies, aka CIA Letter Openers
> <gak>, sharpen the thing and learn to carry and draw it. It's better
> then nothing and you can go anywhere with it if you conceal it
> properly.
> --Don--
Hey, yeah! I just haven't learned to think as sneaky as you guys yet...
;)
-- Duh Otter
Otter
Chris and Kayci McKinley wrote:
>
> >
> > Otter <mus...@wcoil.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Don Wagner wrote:
> > >> Trick question! You should _always_ bring knives.
> > >> --Don--
> > >> Clones are people two.
> >
> > >Gotta be able to sneak them in though. I went to a Metallica concert
> > >last spring; well, I hadn't been to rock concert in about 5 or 6 years,
> > >and didn't know that they were doing metal detector searches on people.
> > >Of course, my SAK made the gadget go "BEEEEEEEP", and they took it. Of
> > >course I made them give me a receipt so I could go claim it after the
> > >show (the guard looked a little ticked :)
> >
> > Duh Otter. ;-)
> >
> > <gak>, sharpen the thing and learn to carry and draw it. It's better
> > then nothing and you can go anywhere with it if you conceal it
> > properly.
> > --Don--
>
> their pretty little heads. :)
>
Aww, shucks, Chris...That's the first time anyone's ever called me
"pretty"...
Ceramic, I know. Copolymer....? Elaborate, please? And I can get my
shoes on just fine, thank you :)
-- Otter
Chris and Kayci McKinley
Otter wrote:
> Ceramic, I know. Copolymer....? Elaborate, please? And I can get my
> shoes on just fine, thank you :)
>
> -- Otter
Dear Otter,
No way. I like my pretty little head right where it is, thank you.
And my pretty little job. It would be against Company policy, even when
you're not working for the Company. Sorry, but you'll have to go study
chemistry for this one. Copolymers are a pretty basic concept, but I'm
pleading ignorance on what I believe you have in mind.
Chris McKinley
Richard Lancashire
Chris and Kayci McKinley wrote:
>
> > Ceramic, I know. Copolymer....? Elaborate, please? And I can get my
> > shoes on just fine, thank you :)
> No way. I like my pretty little head right where it is, thank you.
> And my pretty little job. It would be against Company policy, even when
> you're not working for the Company. Sorry, but you'll have to go study
> chemistry for this one. Copolymers are a pretty basic concept, but I'm
> pleading ignorance on what I believe you have in mind.
A copolymer is what is obtained when two or more mer units are combined
to give a resultant polymer that is (hopefully) better in some sense
than their parent bulk homopolymers. Like most artificial rubbers
(probably the most common copolymers in the world).
So you're talking about rubber knives?
:oP
Rich
Otter
Thanks for reposting Chris's reply...my reader didn't pick that one up.
And thanks for saving me from enrolling in some chem classes :) That
was more or less what I was after. (I assumed Chris wasn't talking
about a typical composite, say, carbon-fiber.) More detail (like what
Chris won't tell me :-p) is always appreciated, but this'll do.
And to Chris: Don't be such a tease, man. Dangling that word in front
of me like that...it was like holding a twist tie in front of a cat,
then putting it in a drawer...(the twist tie, not the cat, that is) :)
-- Otter
MarcusW579
<<Dear Marcus,
This is a fantastic post! Thank you. I have gone to extents thinking up and
applying many types of physical elements into the realism aspects of our
training, but I think you have shed light on they key psycological ingredient
needed. My intention is to try this approach myself (of course I have put
myself in this mental state at times during training but not with the
predetermination to do so consistantly) and apply it to my teaching. I've got a
hunch that as worn out as some of the guys get after a physical session, they
are going to feel a lot more worn out once they've gotten themselves to get
"worked up" on command.
BTW, you gave my kind of a nostolgic flash back with all your talk about
discos, polyester, platforms and chicks watching you train. You sure there
weren't drugs involved? LingOL. Of course I was just a kid back then so I can
only guess.
Thanks again.
KevinM >>
You're very welcome, Kevin. Good luck, and let me know how it goes for you.
BTW, us old-timers who trained in those days had the strength of ten because
our hearts, lungs, and kidneys were pure of corrupt influences :). We'd turn
away all those Buds and buds. (And if you believe that, I have a slightly
used bridge for cheap...)
cheers, Marcus
Chris and Kayci McKinley
Richard Lancashire wrote:
>
> Chris and Kayci McKinley wrote:
> > Otter wrote:
> >
> > > Ceramic, I know. Copolymer....? Elaborate, please? And I can get my
> > > shoes on just fine, thank you :)
>
> > No way. I like my pretty little head right where it is, thank you.
> > And my pretty little job. It would be against Company policy, even when
> > you're not working for the Company. Sorry, but you'll have to go study
> > chemistry for this one. Copolymers are a pretty basic concept, but I'm
> > pleading ignorance on what I believe you have in mind.
>
> A copolymer is what is obtained when two or more mer units are combined
> to give a resultant polymer that is (hopefully) better in some sense
> than their parent bulk homopolymers. Like most artificial rubbers
> (probably the most common copolymers in the world).
>
> So you're talking about rubber knives?
>
> :oP
> Rich
No. Just footwear implements. ;)
Chris McKinley
Otter
See, now that's not such a big secret, is it? My Granddad had rubber
footwear implements..."golloshes" I think he called them... ;)
-- Otter
SeiserL
So, if I had a knife blade made of something other than metal, then it would
make for more combat realism in training? I think I missed the fork in the
road.
Lynn
Just sharing a thought and the journey.
Lynn Seiser, PhD MFCC (Sei...@AOL.com)
12 free web-pages at http://members.aol.com/SeiserL/index.html
Seal Beach, CA USA
"Change is natural and inevitable."
Otter
SeiserL wrote:
>
> So, if I had a knife blade made of something other than metal, then it would
> make for more combat realism in training? I think I missed the fork in the
> road.
detector in your car didn't pick 'em up.
On the other hand, training in golloshes may prepare you for winter
combat...
Yeah, that's it...
Actually, this makes me think of a question: Why do most students train
in their bare feet in the dojo? My guess is that it stems from asian
customs on wearing footwear indoors, but how is this realistic? If you
are ever required to use your skills, most of the time you'll be wearing
shoes. It's much harder to pivot, etc. in shoes than barefooted in the
dojo, as it would be outside the dojo. It just seems like you would be
learning "bad habits", so to speak, by practicing barefooted. (My
sensei gave us the option to wear shoes in class, but I'm the only one
who does. Although I do it for additional ankle support.)
-- Otter
Todd D. Ellner
In article <352A7E...@wcoil.com>, Otter <Otter> wrote:
>Actually, this makes me think of a question: Why do most students train
>in their bare feet in the dojo? My guess is that it stems from asian
>customs on wearing footwear indoors, but how is this realistic? If you
>are ever required to use your skills, most of the time you'll be wearing
>shoes. It's much harder to pivot, etc. in shoes than barefooted in the
>dojo, as it would be outside the dojo. It just seems like you would be
>learning "bad habits", so to speak, by practicing barefooted.
Good points. If you are training for fitness, cultural conservation,
sporting competition, or any of a number of other things (all good
reasons), then bare feet and a light gi make a lot of sense. If you
are practicing for self-protection it is probably better to spend most
of your training time wearing your regular clothes. The only real
exception I can think of is something like Judo or Ju Jutsu. The gi
is an excellent outfit for grappling practice.
Todd
--
Todd Ellner | When thou seest an eagle, thou seest a portion of genius;
tel...@cs.pdx.edu | lift up thy head!
(503)493-4431 | --William Blake "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell"
Richard Lancashire
Otter wrote:
> SeiserL wrote:
> > So, if I had a knife blade made of something other than metal, then it would
> > make for more combat realism in training? I think I missed the fork in the
> > road.
More to sneak them past metal detectors, if I remember correctly. Wasn't
there a film in which John Malkovitch had a gun made of composite?
> Actually, this makes me think of a question: Why do most students train
> in their bare feet in the dojo? My guess is that it stems from asian
> customs on wearing footwear indoors, but how is this realistic? If you
> are ever required to use your skills, most of the time you'll be wearing
> shoes.
All the kung fu schools I've been to train in shoes, usually sports
shoes or occasionally canvas slip-on things. If I was wearing my boots
I'd be much more likely to do a toe kick than I would be barefoot.
:oP
Rich
michaelvanetti
KMMahoney wrote:
> Hey folks,
>
> What obviously (imho) sets most real fighters apart from most MA practicioners
> is the element of realism in their combat training. For example: boxers are
> usually fairly tough because they are used to being in the ring with somebody
> trying to take their heads off, specials forces types are generally pretty
> leathal because they are preparing for or have been in real combat situations
> where their life is on the line.
>
> Who out there would like to share some of their training ideas, drills or
> approaches to realism in training?
>
> KevinM
Hey, you all make me look forward to reading the posts here.
Great stuff, glad I subscribed.
Hey Chris , your NLP kinda sounds like what you would
try when you want to focus in a meditative state. (That's
meditative, not one of the fifty states of the USA: kungfool).
Enjoy everyone and may the wind always be at your back.
Mike
KMMahoney
> Hey, you all make me look forward to reading the posts here.
>Great stuff, glad I subscribed.
> Hey Chris , your NLP kinda sounds like what you would
>try when you want to focus in a meditative state. (That's
>meditative, not one of the fifty states of the USA: kungfool).
>Enjoy everyone and may the wind always be at your back.
>
> Mike
>
>
Chris,
My take on NLP is that it goes a little past the empty mind (maybe it winds up
there). It is a way of using suggestions and thought to manipulate the student
during training to elicit correct and empty minded responses during the real
thing. Am I close?
KevinM
SeiserL
Actually NLP is more a psychotechnology of the mind. It provides a way to
understand, code and change some very deep patterns. Its kind of like mental
marketing, presentation is everything. Very useful and powerful. It can be used
to enter a meditative state, but most of the people in it are technicians who
already have an empty mind. If you know what I mean, nudge nudge, wink wink,
say no more, say no more.
"We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our
training. " Train well. KWATZ!
KMMahoney
>Actually NLP is more a psychotechnology of the mind. It provides a way to
>understand, code and change some very deep patterns. Its kind of like mental
>marketing, presentation is everything. Very useful and powerful. It can be
>used
>to enter a meditative state, but most of the people in it are technicians who
>already have an empty mind. If you know what I mean, nudge nudge, wink wink,
>say no more, say no more.
>
>"We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of
>our
>training. " Train well. KWATZ!
>
>Lynn
Dear Lynn,
I guess that's not too far from what I thought it was. Can you be more specific
about how it applies to MA & combat training and perhaps discuss how one goes
about getting a little of this in their bag of tricks?
Thanks in advance,
KevinM
RICHARD DOELL
CMA styles usually train with shoes or at least kung fu slippers on. I have
never seen a Chinese master train with bare feet unless of course we are
talking about Chinese Kempo.
Richard Doell
michaelvanetti
SeiserL wrote:
> Actually NLP is more a psychotechnology of the mind. It provides a way to
> understand, code and change some very deep patterns. Its kind of like mental
> marketing, presentation is everything. Very useful and powerful. It can be used
> to enter a meditative state, but most of the people in it are technicians who
> already have an empty mind. If you know what I mean, nudge nudge, wink wink,
> say no more, say no more.
>
> "We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our
> training. " Train well. KWATZ!
>
> Lynn
> Just sharing a thought and the journey.
> Lynn Seiser, PhD MFCC (Sei...@AOL.com)
> 12 free web-pages at http://members.aol.com/SeiserL/index.html
> Seal Beach, CA USA
> "Change is natural and inevitable."
So, its more like a "problem" solving method.
Search, Identify, Seek and Destroy/Modify????
Also thanks KM for your reply.
Mike
SeiserL
In article michaelvanetti writes:
>>Search, Identify, Seek and Destroy/Modify????>>
Actually, nicely said. NLP is very specific target acquisition of the mental
processes that allow us to do something or stops us. Its the most powerful
mental stuff I've seen. I never leave home without it.
Its ahrd to put it into a short post. Go to Deja News Power Search and find the
thread in alt.psychology.nlp and look up NLP and Special Forces. Chris, Marcus
and I had some fun with that one. Also check on the thread here that was on
training the aggressive mind, motivational slumps, mental training.
NLP allows you to identify, code and alter mental processes in a very specific
way. It helps you identify the model of the world you work from and how to
alter it in ways that are more useful. It works directly with it. One rule is
that the map we use (mental) is not the territory (reality). But, the map we
use helps us get there. Because the information is so specific you sorta look
like that Columbo detective.
There are some specific mental patterns that are useful int combat and martial
arts. Like moving towards something instead of flinching away. Like hold an
internal image that will propel you forward with courage instead of away with
fear. It about finding internal resources that you can anchor and then trigger
on command.