Etymology
KooKie
I was working on, little tricks and combinations that I thought were
pretty new and things I picked up from watching videos that didn't really
had names. I carried them around in a worn out little yellow file with a
sticker of Led Zeppelin on it. It had some guitar tabs in there too,
occasionally a po�m or lyrics to a song I wanted to learn by heart.
The little papers were a little less than 10 by 10cm, like sticky notes
but without the stickyness. Over the years the number of tricks grew and
so did the pieces of paper. It was to the point where it was so poorly
organized that I often rediscovered a trick that hadn't crossed my mind
for ages.
Since I have the tendency to be a bit non-structured, I've only recently
organised my (meanwhile not so little) yellow file and written every trick
down on 4 big pages, front to back. It was a pretty tricky task and I had
quite a few laughs looking at the older notes. I used to think a siteswap
was just another word for throwing 1's. I also called contortion tricks
"contraptions".
But anyway, I didn't really "think in siteswap" so when I found an
interesting trick that was new to me, I had to come up with a name that
fully embodied it.
Leading to some very strange results...
Oy-Oy-Oy! , Rollercoaster Box , Headcrosses , Drunken Samoerai , Box High
Throw Double Switch (Falco's Move) , CnB (Chin and Bone) , Flipped MM
(Time Reversed Mill's) , Extreme Penguin Shuffle , Muscle Flex Stall Into
Quick Penguin, etc...
Does anyone else use made-up, silly names to remember a new trick you
found? If so, I'd like to know :-)
Kim
--
----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----
Aidan
There was a while that I kept similar scraps of paper with three ball
tricks on them and looking back at them makes me smile. However there are
some tricks that I look at the name I've written and wonder what on earth
they were. So now I have some names for long forgotten tricks!
Aidan.
Sondre �verby
The jump trick doesn't really have a name. Now it's called the jump trick.
Sondre
Boppo
> I used to have a bunch of little pieces of paper where I wrote down tricks
> I was working on, little tricks and combinations that I thought were
> pretty new and things I picked up from watching videos that didn't really
> had names. I carried them around in a worn out little yellow file with a
> sticker of Led Zeppelin on it. It had some guitar tabs in there too,
>
> The little papers were a little less than 10 by 10cm, like sticky notes
> but without the stickyness. Over the years the number of tricks grew and
> so did the pieces of paper. It was to the point where it was so poorly
> organized that I often rediscovered a trick that hadn't crossed my mind
> for ages.
>
> Since I have the tendency to be a bit non-structured, I've only recently
> organised my (meanwhile not so little) yellow file and written every trick
> down on 4 big pages, front to back. It was a pretty tricky task and I had
> quite a few laughs looking at the older notes. I used to think a siteswap
> was just another word for throwing 1's. I also called contortion tricks
> "contraptions".
>
> But anyway, I didn't really "think in siteswap" so when I found an
> interesting trick that was new to me, I had to come up with a name that
> fully embodied it.
>
> Leading to some very strange results...
>
> Oy-Oy-Oy! , Rollercoaster Box , Headcrosses , Drunken Samoerai , Box High
> Throw Double Switch (Falco's Move) , CnB (Chin and Bone) , Flipped MM
> (Time Reversed Mill's) , Extreme Penguin Shuffle , Muscle Flex Stall Into
> Quick Penguin, etc...
>
> Does anyone else use made-up, silly names to remember a new trick you
> found? If so, I'd like to know :-)
>
> Kim
>
> --
> ----== posted viawww.jugglingdb.com==----
Well, how about the six-ball-shower-chicken-out? I'm pretty sure
that name is my own.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVrd7uh8NPo
This trick ( 7899918171 ) is a joke, but you have to be able to do the
full six shower entry and exit ( 789a...b1..a1918171 ) to fully
appreciate how silly the first one is because it ducks and runs.
Come to think of it, I also thought of the name "siteswaps" to
describe a family of tricks I was thinking of back in the day. Does
that meet your criterion?
-boppo
Dave Cheetham
>
> On Nov 19, 1:33 pm, pimk...@hotmail.com.nospam.com (KooKie) wrote:
> > I used to have a bunch of little pieces of paper where I wrote down tricks
> > I was working on, little tricks and combinations that I thought were
> > pretty new and things I picked up from watching videos that didn't really
> > had names. I carried them around in a worn out little yellow file with a
> > sticker of Led Zeppelin on it. It had some guitar tabs in there too,
"Siteswap"? That's a silly name. Nobody could use that to describe a
juggling trick.
Dave
jimifun
for years i believed it was called "sideswap"
simple logic. some times they swap sides.
rhalf
>
> On Nov 19, 1:33 pm, pimk...@hotmail.com.nospam.com (KooKie) wrote:
> > I used to have a bunch of little pieces of paper where I wrote down tricks
> > I was working on, little tricks and combinations that I thought were
> > pretty new and things I picked up from watching videos that didn't really
> > had names. I carried them around in a worn out little yellow file with a
> > sticker of Led Zeppelin on it. It had some guitar tabs in there too,
haha, I like the description :D
Boppo
>
> - Show quoted text -
You can say that again!
Boppo
Incidentally, the shower-chicken-outs are a family themselves.
For six balls, all the following tricks are shower-chicken-outs except
the last one:
777771
78888171
7899918171
789aa1918171
789ab1a1918171
You can see how they approach the last one, but stop at a lower high-
throw, and then exit starting at whatever the highest throw was, going
with progressively lower high throws, all interspersed with 1s.
There are of course shower-chicken-outs for all the other numbers,
other than six.
Four:
5551
566151
56716151 (not a chicken-out)
Five:
66661
6777161
678817161
67891817161 (not a chicken-out)
etc.
-boppo
WillWF
> Does anyone else use made-up, silly names to remember a new trick you
> found? If so, I'd like to know :-)
>
> Kim
>
> --
> ----== posted viawww.jugglingdb.com==----
Yes, and I also used to draw little stick diagrams with arrows and
sequence numbers. Now I just take a quick vid of as much of trick I
can do when I first think of it, before I forget it. Still, the
problem remains of how to name those computer files! For a while I
would try to give them descriptive names but now just name them after
the conception date. It probably doesn't help that I still don't know
site swap stuff.
Will
Dave Cheetham
Sorry if this is a silly question, Bruce. But why do you call them
"Shower Chicken-Outs"?
In my mind, when I was first thinking of what a "Shower Chicken-Out" could
be, I was imagining the last ones in the series that you've provided above
(the ones that you've specifically said *aren't* Chicken-Outs). My
thought process was that you would be shifting the ground state up towards
the shower (eg. "...6666789ab" but just as you get there you "chicken-out"
of running the shower and slowly drop it back to the base pattern (eg.
"1a19181716666...").
I'm by no means saying that mine is the correct interpretation (I'd never
thought of these types of patterns until you mentioned them), just sharing
my thoughts on what I'd imagined a "Shower Chicken-Out" to be.
Cheers,
Dave
bill coad
>
>
> The jump trick doesn't really have a name. Now it's called the jump trick.
>
>
> Sondre
>
and what is the jump trick?
thegoheads
> Does anyone else use made-up, silly names to remember a new trick you
> found? If so, I'd like to know :-)
I discovered the "windmill" on my own before I knew what it was called. I
called it the TORNADO!
Boppo
wrote:
Sorry I didn't see your response until today.
Consider the case for 5 balls. The official (according to me) shower
entrance is 678, the shower is 91, and the official exit is 817161.
So a non-chicken-out pattern is one in which you complete the entry,
do the shower (any nonzero number of times) and then exit, e.g.
678..91919191..817161. You could do the shower only once but you
still had entered into it, 67891817161. In other words, to me it
isn't necessary to actually qualify the shower in its own right to
have nevertheless entered it.
But for the chicken-outs, you wimp out at throws less than the full
shower, e.g. at the 8 level, and turn tail and run down back to lesser
throws: 678817161. Not only don't you qualify it, you never even
make it to the shower, "it's too scary."
As is usally the case with siteswaps, there's an increasing richness
at higher numbers - more chickenouts, for example.
I can't do a much better job of explaining it than is already on the
video description, but I really do find the six-ball trick funny. I
hadn't identified it as a chicken-out as such before trying it, but
when I first did it I thought it was funny and spent some time trying
to figure out why. When I did, I coined the chicken-out name.
For the sordid details, yes, I had printouts of siteswaps that I kept
in my juggling bag, and I would look through them for ones that looked
like I might like them. My criteria were: no 0s, 11s, 2s, nor 3s, and
preferably either all the high throws coming from the right side or
starting from the right side, because I am strongly non-ambidextrous.
According to these criteria, 7899918171 hits all the points except for
the lone left-handed 8 which is however between a 7 and a 9 from the
right. Based on this, I knew it would be "easy" (for 6-ball tricks,
max throw height 9 and period 10) and that I was likely to like it. I
was correct on both counts (it being easy and my liking it) but I
didn't expect to find it so funny - that was pleasant and
unexpected.
(So, I must apologize in advance for ruining that surprise for the
rest of you regarding all the chicken-outs.)
-boppo
Michael Falkov
Neat SS family. As I was reading your posts about them, I was wondering
how you discovered them. Were you exploring state transitions? Did you
stumble upon it by exiting a shower entrance prematurely, realizing what
you'd found and fleshing it out? It was a pleasant surprise to see a
detailed description of how it happened.
I think it would make for a neat collaborative project to define and
categorize SS families. We could use the Juggle Wiki, or the big
Wiki(pedia). I've spent a bit of time on it myself, here and there. I
think it interesting to note that any given SS can be seen as an element
of many family/sets, and so can be seen as the intersection of those sets.
Thinking about patterns this way adds some depth to the intellectual
satisfaction gained from exploring sitwswaps. More interconnectivity, a
denser, more meaningful network of facts.
And, man, seriously, thanks for inventing siteswaps (thanks to the other
inventors too, of course)! I've benefited from their existence in many
ways. :)
Aymeric
Pfft! Siteswaps weren't invented! They were simply discovered (just like
many other things in our (and
other?) world still need to be) ;)
Aymeric.
Boppo
wrote:
I am pleased that now siteswaps are becoming a mainstream aspect of
juggling - that juggling today, across the world, looks very different
from the way it used to look 20 years ago partly as a result of my
efforts. But 15-20 years ago when I first started doing them in
earnest, few others did, and most of the people I juggled with in
weekly gatherings (many of whom were professionals) claimed they had
no value in performance and sort of scoffed at them.
There was also no WWW and no online siteswap generators. But since I
was in a crowd of ubergeeks (at Caltech), I solicited people people to
write generator programs for me. Jack Boyce invented the state-space
way of generating them which was very, very much faster than the
create permutations, turn them into tricks, and sort the resulting
list (which was how I thought to do it). Jack's algorithm can be made
to simply not bother producing tricks with certain excluded throws
(rather than generating them and then crossing them off the list
later) and it can also be made to generate the tricks already sorted.
The sorting process was what really bogged down the early generators
people had written for me - but still this was far faster than my
penciling out tricks one at a time, which is how I began.
Anyway, I carried a printout of tricks, a whole binder full with many
pages in it, containing tricks for me to try. I started out with
tricks at five-ball level, max throw 9 and with gradually increasing
period, until I got good enough with six balls to start getting into
those. At the top of my juggling skill a decade ago, my binder had
tricks for 6 balls, 9 max throw, period up to 10, but with no 0s, 11s,
2s, nor 3s. But still, that's a lot of tricks! I would simply open the
binder and go to my last visited page, and look down the list for ones
that I thought I would like. As I already said my criterion was,
high throws mostly being from the right side, or starting with the
right side because I am not ambidextrous. I could look at a trick (I
still can) and think, "I'm going to hate that one" or "I'm going to
like that one." I'd try the ones I liked, and check them if I could
do them and liked them, and go down the list.
In this way I've tried many hundreds of different tricks. Three of
the best six-ball tricks I decided to film a decade ago: 999441,
7899918171, and 9595881771. You can see that all of them comply with
my rules for likability. Additionally 999441 has the interesting
mathematical property about the sum of cubes being the square of a
triangular number squared, and the middle one is the chicken-out that
I described the discovery of above. The last one is about the hardest
trick I could reliably (for me) do, and I will add that I obtained an
extra boost of satisfaction from it because it was actually too
complex for me to follow all the balls in my mind. In most tricks I
know which are going where, such as the shower entry and exit, and I
have a mental picture for how it all works out. In the case of
9595881771, it exceeded my following capacity - so there was a period
in the middle, admittedly, measured in hundreds of milliseconds, where
I lost track of what was happening, but then it would fall into place
and work out. That's really neat.
As I wrote in my last post, when I first did the shower chicken-out, I
found it amusing and I tried to figure out why that was so. In the
course of so doing, I realized that it was, in fact, a shower chicken-
out and that it implied the entire family of shower chicken-outs, both
with greater and lesser max throws, and also with different numbers of
objects. I have done all the six-ball levels of chicken-outs, and
also the non-chicken-out, but the way in which my films were made led
me to some humility resulting in the choice of that particular trick.
I didn't have a camera and didn't film every practice session that I
ever had. Which is really too bad because in my life, I've hit some
real doozies just once or twice, and I've also had some spectacular
freak runs with numbers or with connected tricks in one run. But
instead, I would visit my brother once a year for Christmas, and he
obliged me by filming one or two sessions - and whatever I hit during
those few hours was what would end up as film clips on the web. Given
that I had only a few hours on camera and I wanted a bunch of tricks,
I couldn't pick the things I got rarely; I had to choose some that
were reliable, so I could hit them and move on. So I picked the five
shower entrance, exit, and reversal, that is, the non-chicken-out, and
the six-ball 9-height chicken-out. I have done the six ball full
shower, entry, reverse and exit, but only a few times, and not with
the extra nervousness of a camera rolling, keeping in mind that
filming was once a year.
That said, I have a camera now and have figured out how to play into
my computer, so there are some films I intend to make now. The bad
news is, I haven't juggled in a decade, and I'm 44 years old, so there
are some things I will probably never repeat. But, I can still do
some cool tricks that I haven't seen anyone else - not even Dietz -
do, so there is yet room for me on Youtube.
Speaking of Dietz, I could do some simple 7-ball tricks like 966,
a666, and b6666, but no really complicated ones. It was beyond my
apparent ability. But just last week I got three cycles of 888891,
which I never worked on back in the day. I think if Youtube had been
around back then, we'd all be better jugglers because of the mutual
encouragement, and we'd certainly all appear to be much better,
because we'd all have filmed our bests rather than tricks hittable in
one hour.
-boppo
Boppo
... and Edison merely discovered that if you place a carbon filament
in a vacuum and run electrical current through it, it lights up.
Evidently he was no inventor either.
-boppo
Aymeric
Exactly.
Although he also did a couple of useful iventions as well :)