Multiplex terminology
Marden117
I was chatting to Tiff a couple of weeks back and he mentioned a duplex (I
forget what he called it) and wondered what terminology everyone uses or
has heard being used to describe the first 2 of the following 5 duplex
throws. I've labeled them using the terminology I use or have heard of
from others but I want to know what others use.
(1) Martin Duplex
Taken from the trick with the same name. Throw a ball with a ball held in
the hand. Siteswap [?2]
(2) Slice Duplex
Throw both balls but one ball goes straight to the other hand as a pass
while the other ball is caught on a later beat. Usually thrown so the
catching hand is directly above the throwing hand and claws the 1.
Siteswap [?1]
(3) Split Duplex
Throw both balls and catch them in separate hands. Common siteswaps [43],
[54], [65] etc.
(4) Stack Duplex
Throw both balls to the same or other hand treating both balls as if they
were one. Common siteswaps [33], [44], [55]
(5) Cut Duplex
Throw both balls to the same or other hand like a stacked duplex but in a
staggered fashion so the bottom ball of the duplex is caught and re-thrown
before the top ball is caught. Commonly used in Shower Explosions with the
siteswaps [53], [64], [75] etc.
Thanks in advance to everyone who replies.
Danny
--
----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----
Norbi
but i use all of those same ones. just thought you might like to know
The Void
> I was chatting to Tiff a couple of weeks back and he mentioned a duplex (I
> forget what he called it) and wondered what terminology everyone uses or
> has heard being used to describe the first 2 of the following 5 duplex
> throws. I've labeled them using the terminology I use or have heard of
> from others but I want to know what others use.
> Throw both balls to the same or other hand treating both balls as if they
> were one. Common siteswaps [33], [44], [55]
I call that a paired 'plex
> (5) Cut Duplex
> Throw both balls to the same or other hand like a stacked duplex but in a
> staggered fashion so the bottom ball of the duplex is caught and re-thrown
> before the top ball is caught. Commonly used in Shower Explosions with the
> siteswaps [53], [64], [75] etc.
I call that a stack.
The Void
...............
Biframed
Sondre Øverby
I use the terminology you listed.
On a side note: I heard once that someone described a, say, [35] as
"thirty five" and I adopted it. This makes it much easier to know when you
are talking about multiplexes and when you aren't.
[44] = fourty-four
[97531] = ninety-seven thousand five hundred and thirty-one
and so on... Do you think it's a good idea? I'm going to keep using it
anyway.
Marden117
Sondre, I like that idea. I had often wondered how best to express a
spoken multiplex siteswap and would often find myself resorting to writing
it on my hand or literally saying "Three three in square brackets" or
something to that effect. Thanks for sharing.
The Void
Yes, but I believe the convention is to always say the number in the
highest possible combination, so
a [35] is actually a "fifty three" [53]. (I think I got that from the
Siteswap DVD, but I can't remember).
The Void
................
Uncertainty is hip. Probably.
bill coad
I either use these names or for some I don't bother calling it anything
such as the Martin Duplex.
I did find that Lloyd uses the term 'steals'
http://www.jugglingdb.com/news/thread.php?id=73998&group=1&highlight=duplex
On a related topic, I've got a question about multiplex notation. Just as
a synch siteswap uses '*' as a shortcut to denote a symmetrical repeat, it
would be nice to have a multiplex shortcut notation for adding a sinlge
stack duplex to a siteswap pattern. E.g. a single stack added to a 36731
pattern becomes [33]67[33]13[66]73136[77]313673[11]. Is there a more
simple way to notate this?
Sondre Øverby
I think that's only "necessary" for non-multiplex patterns since [35] and
[53] is the same, as opposed to 756 and 567, of which the latter cannot be
done directly from a fountain.
Marden117
>
> Hi rec.
<snip>
> (1) Martin Duplex
> Taken from the trick with the same name. Throw a ball with a ball held in
> the hand. Siteswap [?2]
Since I posted this thread, something was bugging me and I just realized
what it was. A Martin Duplex isn't theoretically a duplex since only 1
ball is being thrown. Then it hit me. It's a 'Uniplex'.
Triplex - 3 balls thrown
Duplex - 2 balls thrown
Uniplex - 1 ball thrown (with 1 held)
I think this is the most logical terminology to use.
Sondre Øverby
It's still a multiplex though. What are these called IYO?
[244]
[245]
[257]
And what is a 6-plex called? So, we have
- Throw(and Uniplex)
- Duplex
- Triplex
- Quadruplex
- Quintuplex
- ?
- ?
- ?
Following my logic after 5, 6 is a "Heksuplex" but then we would have
these:
- Monoplex
- Diplex
- Triplex
- ?
- Pentaplex
- Heksuplex
- Heptuplex
- Octoplex
I guess more than 5 balls at the time is a bit too hard to be worth
talking about, but still it would be nice to know if we're going to have a
terminology for these things.
Marden117
>
> Marden117 wrote:
> >
> > Marden117 wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi rec.
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > (1) Martin Duplex
> > > Taken from the trick with the same name. Throw a ball with a ball held in
> > > the hand. Siteswap [?2]
> >
> > Since I posted this thread, something was bugging me and I just realized
> > what it was. A Martin Duplex isn't theoretically a duplex since only 1
> > ball is being thrown. Then it hit me. It's a 'Uniplex'.
> >
> > Triplex - 3 balls thrown
> > Duplex - 2 balls thrown
> > Uniplex - 1 ball thrown (with 1 held)
> >
> > I think this is the most logical terminology to use.
> >
>
> It's still a multiplex though. What are these called IYO?
> [244]
> [245]
> [257]
This, I agree, is quite a grey area but I don't think special terminology
is needed when we can say:
[244] Stacked duplex with a held ball
[245] Split duplex with a held ball
[257] Cut duplex with a held ball
Sure we can say [21] is a single throw with a held ball but I felt it was
worth noting that it could also be considered a uniplex.
> And what is a 6-plex called? So, we have
> - Throw(and Uniplex)
> - Duplex
> - Triplex
> - Quadruplex
> - Quintuplex
Sextaplex?
> Following my logic after 5, 6 is a "Heksuplex" but then we would have
> these:
> - Monoplex
> - Diplex
> - Triplex
> - ?
> - Pentaplex
> - Heksuplex
> - Heptuplex
> - Octoplex
Following the link that Bill gave in this thread. A four ball multiplex is
referred to as a Tetraplex which I like the sound of.
> I guess more than 5 balls at the time is a bit too hard to be worth
> talking about, but still it would be nice to know if we're going to have a
> terminology for these things.
I agree entirely.
Danny
Sondre Øverby
I checked, and it goes
Uno
Duo
Trio
Quattro
Quinto
Sexto
I guess I'll go with "Sextaplex", but what are we going to call 7 and 8?
Go with Heptaplex and Octoplex? How about 9 and 10? The Greek numbers
don't seem to fit what we are already using - these look more Spanish,
though not quite.
Marden117
I'd draw the line at a 6 ball multiplex; I've only ever done a max of 6
(sextaplex). Personally, 4 and 5 are fairly uncommon and but beyond 5 is
too uncommon to be naming them.
Le_lemGo
But still, this terminology doesn't take into account held balls.
You could make a uniplex (or a n-plex) throw while holding one or more
balls.
This is not obvious if you just call them n-plexes.
But the question is, does it make any difference?
lemGo
Daniele Caselli
> > (1) Martin Duplex
> > Taken from the trick with the same name. Throw a ball with a ball held in
> > the hand. Siteswap [?2]
>
> ball is being thrown. Then it hit me. It's a 'Uniplex'.
Think of the definition of "2": it should be a throw,
but for easiness you don't throw it... Anyway ontologically
it's a duplex! No doubt!
Little Paul
>
> Think of the definition of "2": it should be a throw,
> but for easiness you don't throw it...
No no no no no no no no no no NO!
That's not what 2 means at all.
-Paul
--
paulseward.com - a photo a day for 2008
100jugglers.org - 100 pieces of signed juggling promotional material
Marden117
As I said, when I replied to Sondre, this is quite a grey area and I
understand what you are saying.
By my definition:
[32] is a uniplex
[332] is a duplex with a ball held
and so it would seem
[322] is a uniplex with a ball held.
Admittedly, this sounds crazy as there are 2 balls held, not 1. What I
wanted to suggest (but failed to) was that a uniplex be a given the
definition of "1 ball thrown and 1 held" and, in the event of more than
one ball being held, to state how many. So we get:
[32] Uniplex
[322] Uniplex with 2 held
[3222] Uniplex with 3 held
I feel this would provide more clarity than the previous definition.
Marden117
>
> Marden117 wrote:
> > > (1) Martin Duplex
> > > Taken from the trick with the same name. Throw a ball with a ball held in
> > > the hand. Siteswap [?2]
> >
> > A Martin Duplex isn't theoretically a duplex since only 1
> > ball is being thrown. Then it hit me. It's a 'Uniplex'.
>
> Think of the definition of "2": it should be a throw,
> but for easiness you don't throw it... Anyway ontologically
> it's a duplex! No doubt!
If the 2 is held, it's a uniplex. If the 2 is thrown [1], it's a duplex.
Danny
[1] I don't want to get into whether or not a 2 can/cannot represent a
throw but I'm more than aware that a 2 represents a ball being thrown
again 2 beats later.
Daniele Caselli
>
> On 2008-04-29, Daniele Caselli <ele...@email.it.nospam.com> wrote:
> >
> > Think of the definition of "2": it should be a throw,
> > but for easiness you don't throw it...
>
> No no no no no no no no no no NO!
>
> That's not what 2 means at all.
>
> -Paul
?
Your compatriot Ben Beever once wrote:
"What the SS does tell us, is when a ball will next be thrown."
"Siteswap notation is a way of writing down a key feature
of juggling patterns: the order in which the balls are thrown."
So a "2" should be thrown 2 beats later, but for easiness you hold the
ball instead of doing that little hop that should last 2 beats:
what's the problem with this definition Paul?
fakoriginal
of the 423 variations. Don't forget that mutliplexes are done with clubs
too, and a 2 may not be a hold but might be a fast spin, thumb roll,
finger roll, etc.
fak - not paul
Daniele Caselli
2 balls - duplex
3 balls - triplex
4 balls - quadruplex
5 balls - quintuplex
6 balls - sextuplex
7 balls - septuplex
8 balls - octuplex
9 balls - nonuplex
10 balls - decuplex
(i'm not sure of the
following 10 nouns)
11 balls - undecuplex
12 balls - duodecuplex
13 balls - tridecuplex
14 balls - quatuordecuplex
15 balls - quindecuplex
16 balls - sedecuplex
17 balls - septendecuplex
18 balls - duodevigecuplex
19 balls - undevigecuplex
20 balls - vigecuplex
etymologically the suffix "-plex" comes from
the Indo-European root plek- from which derives
both the latin verb "plicare" (to refold) and its
past participle (better "perfect participle")
"plicatus",
and the latin verb "plectere" (perfect participle
"plexus"), which means "intertwine" or "inweave".
From "plicatus" you have derived "to multiply",
and from "plexus" the suffix "-plex".
The prefixes are taken from the latin numbers:
1 = unus, una, unum (masculine, feminine and neuter)
2 = duo, duae, duo
3 = tres, tria
4 = quattuor
5 = quinque
6 = sex
7 = septem
8 = octo
9 = novem
10 = decem
11 = undecim
12 = duodecim
13 = tredecim
14 = quattuordecim
15 = quindecim
16 = sedecim (or decem et sex)
17 = septendecim (or decem et septem)
18 = duodeviginti (20-2)
19 = undeviginti (20-1)
20 = viginti
with some changes: "four throws" should be
"quattruplex" because "quattuor" is "four",
"quintuplex" should be "quinquplex" because
"quinque" is "five" in latin and so on...
But we know how languages evolve and change!
And "quadruplex" sounds better than
"quattruplex" ;-)
Hey Paul I wait for your approval ;)
Daniele
Marden117
>
> 1 ball - throw (slavishly "uniplex")
> 2 balls - duplex
> 3 balls - triplex
> 4 balls - quadruplex
> 5 balls - quintuplex
<snip>
I'm growing to like 'Tetraplex' and 'Pentaplex' for 4 and 5.
But hats off to you for compiling that list.
Sondre Øverby
>
> 1 ball - throw (slavishly "uniplex")
> 2 balls - duplex
> 3 balls - triplex
> 4 balls - quadruplex
> 5 balls - quintuplex
> 6 balls - sextuplex
> 7 balls - septuplex
>
Of course! I even knew that. Weird I couldn't remember it.
Little Paul
> Your compatriot Ben Beever once wrote:
> "What the SS does tell us, is when a ball will next be thrown."
The important word there is "when" not "thrown"
> "Siteswap notation is a way of writing down a key feature
> of juggling patterns: the order in which the balls are thrown."
The important word there is "order" not "thrown"
> So a "2" should be thrown 2 beats later, but for easiness you hold the
> ball instead of doing that little hop that should last 2 beats:
> what's the problem with this definition Paul?
Because siteswap says *nothing* about what you should do with
an object, only when you should do it. It's about the *order*
in which objects are manipulated - *not* how you manuipulate
them.
You could throw that object and catch it 2 beats later, you could
hold that object for 2 beats, you could stick that object up your
nose for 2 beats, all of those are valid siteswap "2"'s
Siteswap does not denote actions. It denotes sequence.
Daniele Caselli
After these obviousnesses what's the *most common* action that you
do to wait those 2 beats, Paul? What I meant was obvious too Paul...
Le_lemGo
I want a video of a vigecuplex!!!
lemGo
Little Paul
>
> After these obviousnesses what's the *most common* action that you
> do to wait those 2 beats, Paul? What I meant was obvious too Paul...
You're confusing "most common" with "only"
The most common thing to do with a 3 when juggling clubs is a single
spin. That does not mean that 3 means "single spin" when juggling
clubs. It could mean flat, half, double, albert, trebla, backcross
reverse spin, dips, helicopter or wedge-it-under-your-chin
With the exception of the spin types in that paragraph, you could
quite happily replace "club" with "ball" and it still works.
The most common thing to do with a 2 when juggling balls is a hold.
That does not mean that 2 means "hold" - it just means "this ball
is dealt with again in 2 beats time"
The "the numbers in siteswap denote how high (or if) you throw
the object" kind of sloppy thinking really limits your opportunities
and has held back the exploration of siteswap into some potentially
interesting areas.
Marden117
I could do it with marbles but don't expect me to try and catch them all :P
Sondre can do a quindecuplex with eggs. You can see his grip technique
below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JMcp9mUI_8
Le_lemGo
Well, actually, I was expecting to see it thrown... and caught too of
course :P
lemGo
Le_lemGo
This indeed sounds more logical.
It also allows to make the difference between [32] the uniplex (ie. one
thrown while holding one), and
a non-multiplex throw.
And the terminology can also be applied to other mutliplex throws, e.g.
[3322] would be a duplex with
2 held. Right?
lemGo
Marden117
Yes. That's right. [3322] would be a duplex with 2 held.
bill coad
IMO the most common action for a '2' is a hold unless multiplexing is
involved - which is the topic at hand.
Jay Linn
<snippety>
> The "the numbers in siteswap denote how high (or if) you throw
> the object" kind of sloppy thinking really limits your opportunities
> and has held back the exploration of siteswap into some potentially
> interesting areas.
Conversely, the insistence that vanilla siteswap denotes merely throwing
order (even when, as in a conventional 2, the throw is not thrown) stifles
the exploration of different modes of interpretation of siteswap notation.
Non Euclidian geometry has been proven to be extremely useful, but only
arose when mathematicians decided to investigate the geometric
implications that arise when one hypothesises that parallel lines meet.
Similarly, non-conventional siteswap theory may yield otherwise
undiscovered insights, such as a functional differentiation between
conventionally identical siteswaps such as 3, 522, 900, etc.
I'm not saying SS should identify throw heights, but I do think that it
might be worth considering what happens when siteswap rules are selctively
broken.
--
Jay Linn
E pur si muove.
jbarlow
>
> Hi rec.
>
> I was chatting to Tiff a couple of weeks back and he mentioned a duplex (I
> forget what he called it) and wondered what terminology everyone uses or
> has heard being used to describe the first 2 of the following 5 duplex
> throws. I've labeled them using the terminology I use or have heard of
> from others but I want to know what others use.
Fun thread. I was recently thinking about multiplex terminology, but from
a different angle, multiplex holds. What are some of the different holds
that
people use and the names for them?
For a two ball hold I have heard:
Side-by-side
Balls are held primarily in the fingers. One ball resting on the index and
middle fingers, the other ball resting on the ring and pinky fingers.
In-line (I have heard this called stacked as well)
One ball is held primarily with the thumb, index, and middle fingers, the
second ball is held in the palm by the ring and pinky fingers.
For three balls:
Triangle hold
Two balls are held in the fingers (like two ball side-by-side) and the
third
ball rests on the palm.
In-line 3 (or stacked 3)
Similar to the two ball in-line. One ball held by thumb, index, and middle
finger. Second ball held in palm by ring finger. Third ball held further
down the palm by the pinky finger.
For four balls:
Box (or Diamond depending on which way you're angling your hand)
One ball held with the thumb, second ball held with index and middle
fingers, third ball held with ring and pinky fingers, and the fourth ball
is pinned in the middle of the palm with the other balls.
Pyramid
Three balls are held in the triangle hold while the fourth ball rests on
top of those three.
I have not got into 5 ball multiplex throws, so not sure if anyone has
any names for those holds.
Jim
Miika
> On a related topic, I've got a question about multiplex notation. Just as
> a synch siteswap uses '*' as a shortcut to denote a symmetrical repeat, it
> would be nice to have a multiplex shortcut notation for adding a sinlge
> stack duplex to a siteswap pattern. E.g. a single stack added to a 36731
> pattern becomes [33]67[33]13[66]73136[77]313673[11]. Is there a more
> simple way to notate this?
>
"36731 with 2 balls as one object" is a little bit shorter than
[33]67[33]13[66]73136[77]313673[11] and a easier to comprehend. A similar
thing happens with "36731 with a gap" referencing 06701307313603136730 .
-Miika
--
(btw, tämä on sadaskahdeksas viestini tässä uutisryhmässä.)
Miika
> Marden117 wrote:
> >
> > (1) Martin Duplex
> > Taken from the trick with the same name. Throw a ball with a ball held in
> > the hand. Siteswap [?2]
>
> Since I posted this thread, something was bugging me and I just realized
> what it was. A Martin Duplex isn't theoretically a duplex since only 1
> ball is being thrown. Then it hit me. It's a 'Uniplex'.
>
> Triplex - 3 balls thrown
> Duplex - 2 balls thrown
> Uniplex - 1 ball thrown (with 1 held)
>
> I think this is the most logical terminology to use.
>
What about other cases with more balls and not all are thrown, like [522]
or [542]? Perhaps something like including 'hold', 'twohold', 'threehold'
etc. after the name of the throw. So [522] could be 'five-twohold', [542]
could be 'fiftyfour-hold' or a 'duplex-unihold'. heh. I'm coming up with
this as am typing, so I'm not all that certain that these would be useful,
but thought I'd share anyway.
Originally I replied to ask if a 'stack duplex' included [33]-throws
where the balls are caught differently (perhaps as pinguin, underleg etc.)
or would these be 'cut multiplexes'?
In general I like the terms you use.
-Miika
--
(btw, tämä on sadasyhdeksäs viestini tässä uutisryhmässä.)
Marden117
>
> Marden117 wrote:
> > Marden117 wrote:
> > >
> > > (1) Martin Duplex
> > > Taken from the trick with the same name. Throw a ball with a ball held in
> > > the hand. Siteswap [?2]
> >
> > Since I posted this thread, something was bugging me and I just realized
> > what it was. A Martin Duplex isn't theoretically a duplex since only 1
> > ball is being thrown. Then it hit me. It's a 'Uniplex'.
> >
> > Triplex - 3 balls thrown
> > Duplex - 2 balls thrown
> > Uniplex - 1 ball thrown (with 1 held)
> >
> > I think this is the most logical terminology to use.
> >
>
> What about other cases with more balls and not all are thrown, like [522]
> or [542]? Perhaps something like including 'hold', 'twohold', 'threehold'
> etc. after the name of the throw. So [522] could be 'five-twohold', [542]
> could be 'fiftyfour-hold' or a 'duplex-unihold'. heh. I'm coming up with
> this as am typing, so I'm not all that certain that these would be useful,
> but thought I'd share anyway.
I think I answered this in my reply to Le_lemGo but I'll add a bit more. I
use the term uniplex to differentiate between a regular throw and a
(multiplex) throw with a ball held.
5 - throw
[52] - uniplex
And in the case of more than 1 ball being held, to state how many so that
instead of saying,
[52] uniplex
[522] uniplex with 1 held
[5222] uniplex with 2 held
which would surely confuse, we get:
[52] - uniplex
[522] - uniplex with 2 held
[5222] - uniplex with 3 held
which is more understandable. You could insist that saying 'uniplex' with
2 or 3 held is no different than saying 'throw' with 2 or 3 held but my
point again is that a uniplex is really just to define a [?2] throw.
You also asked about [542] which I would define as a 'split duplex with a
hold'.
> Originally I replied to ask if a 'stack duplex' included [33]-throws
> where the balls are caught differently (perhaps as pinguin, underleg etc.)
> or would these be 'cut multiplexes'?
A cut duplex indicates that one ball is caught and re-thrown before the
second ball is caught - often seen in shower explosions such as [53][11] -
else I would say it's a stacked duplex with penguin/underleg catches
> In general I like the terms you use.
Thanks for the support. In fact, you have given me an idea which I will
post later.
Danny
Marden117
OK, so my idea didn't go as planned. I was exploring different triplex
combinations (labeling each one) but I'll just add my notes for 2 ball
multiplexes for now:
[n1] - Sliced duplex
[n2] - Uniplex
[33]/[44] - Stacked duplex
[43]/[54] - Split duplex
[53]/[64] - Cut duplex (if the first ball is re-thrown before the second
is caught)