Bowhunters, I need your opinion Please!
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers.com
one post, a guy from Ohio announced his first "bow killed deer" and
proceeded to tell the story.
He lives in a rural area and was getting tired of deer tearing up his newly
planted fruit trees and decided to harvest one or two. I don't really see a
problem with that.
He decided that he'd shoot it from inside his house, treating it like it's a
big, year round blind. (I'm not too ok with that, but I can live with that
as long as it's legal in that area.)
A doe came into the yard, so he cocked his crossbow, loaded it up with a
broadhead equipped arrow and snuck upstairs. Opening a window, he realized
that he didn't have the clearance to get the shot, so he climbed up on a
swivel chair with a cocked and loaded crossbow and attempted to shoot the
deer. (Personally I think from a safety standpoint, that's an extremely
dumb thing to do, but hey, it's his life not mine."
Then, because he didn't have a nice broadside shot, he shot at the deer's
neck, knocking it down. As he approached the deer, it got back up and ran
into a nearby cornfield and fell again, whereupon he finished the deer off
with his pocket knife.
As I said, I can live with the shooting the deer in the yard from inside the
house. Finishing it with a pocket knife isn't necessarily the way I'd do
it, and I certainly wouldn't stand on a swivel chair with a loaded, cocked
crossbow, I value my life too much for that.
But what do you guys think about deliberately taking a neck shot on a deer
with an arrow?
Steve
fish...@charter.net> wrote:
> As I said, I can live with the shooting the deer in the yard from inside the
> house. Finishing it with a pocket knife isn't necessarily the way I'd do
> it, and I certainly wouldn't stand on a swivel chair with a loaded, cocked
> crossbow, I value my life too much for that.
>
> But what do you guys think about deliberately taking a neck shot on a deer
> with an arrow?
I suppose a crossbow could be a little more accurate than a regular cp
bow. Most crossbows are equipped with scopes. I personally wouldn't
go for a neck shot with a rifle. I am not a bow hunter but I don't
think a neck shot is a very high percentage shot and I wouldn't try
it. This guy sounds like a looney tune to me.
Frank
I hunt with a crossbow and have trouble with deer in my yard but
cannot shoot them.
Personally, I would not have told this story as it is not real hunting
requiring set up and chase. It's not hunting - it's pest control.
Crossbow with scope at close range might allow neck shot but I would
never take one even with a rifle as if you miss by a few inches you
are out of the vital areas compared with the standard broadside chest
shot. I've accidently made neck and spine shots and, while it can
anchor the deer, it can be messy requiring more shots or neck
slitting. It is unsettling not to make a clean kill.
I got a crossbow permit because of back problems. Advantage of
crossbow is that very little movement is required to get on target as
bow is cocked and on hand like a rifle. Today's modern compounds have
nearly as much power, speed and accuracy, so crossbow does not have
these advantages. I know a guy with a compound this year that shot a
buck at 48 yards which is something I would not have attempted with my
crossbow.
Only deer I've taken this year was at 20 feet and I used broadside
shot. It was a good clean kill with deer only running 50 yards.
ratman1211
I agree with this one about the guy being a looney tune. Never shot a crossbow
so can't speak for them be it good or bad. Now as far as compound bows I personally
would aim for the heart and lung area. The original posters story reminds me of the
so called professional hunter that works with me. According to him he has
never missed a shot with a bow or gun or whatever he has in his hands at the time.
And yes I value my life way too much as well to be standing in and/or on
anything mobile, other than my own two feet, and have a loaded weapon in my hands.
Ya'll have a good one and am gonna be going out to do a little bowhunting this afternoon
myself. A side note to the original poster. How is your heart doing? Got my results back from
the Cardiolite stress test that I had recently. Normal heart ejection rate is 50-55 percent and
the test have shown that even the though heart attack I had did all the damage to the front muscles
of the heart and the scarring of the tissue, mine is doing real well at 53 percent. So fellow
hunters take care of yourself and be safe out there.
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers.com
I agree with this one about the guy being a looney tune. Never shot a
crossbow
so can't speak for them be it good or bad. Now as far as compound bows I
personally
would aim for the heart and lung area. The original posters story reminds me
of the
so called professional hunter that works with me. According to him he has
never missed a shot with a bow or gun or whatever he has in his hands at the
time.
And yes I value my life way too much as well to be standing in and/or on
anything mobile, other than my own two feet, and have a loaded weapon in my
hands.
Ya'll have a good one and am gonna be going out to do a little bowhunting
this afternoon
myself. A side note to the original poster. How is your heart doing? Got my
results back from
the Cardiolite stress test that I had recently. Normal heart ejection rate
is 50-55 percent and
the test have shown that even the though heart attack I had did all the
damage to the front muscles
of the heart and the scarring of the tissue, mine is doing real well at 53
percent. So fellow
hunters take care of yourself and be safe out there.
LOL, now this character is back on the website trying to defend his actions.
I called him to task for standing on a swivel chair with a loaded/cocked
crossbow and he said that he "knew" that if he slipped that the arrow would
only go into the ceiling or the wall, and that he was in no danger......
He also said that shooting at the deer's neck was the only opportunity to
shoot this deer. I asked him if they were coming into his yard so often as
to be a nuisance, and if they were coming in so often that they were killing
his fruit trees, why didn't he simply wait for the deer to either present
the proper shot angle, or wait for them to return??? He hasn't bothered to
respond to that yet. In his last post, he was asking "How far do you think
I can shoot a deer with this crossbow?" Good Lord, what a goober!
On the subject of my heart, nothing's really changed in the past three
years. I still suffer bouts of shortness of breath and chest pain, but a
nitro tab or two (or three or four) usually stops the pain. But, I'm still
looking down at the dirt and have moved from northern Wisconsin to West
Tennessee to take advantage of the nicer weather, lower taxes and good
outdoor opportunities. Now I'm looking to find some deer hunting territory.
I've done a little scouting on the Land Between the Lakes area, but when I
find a likely looking spot, I also find signs that others are hunting the
area. I don't want to screw up someone else's hunt do I'll keep looking.
To complicate matters, I don't want to go too far in, because if I do drop
one back in there, I don't want to kill myself dragging it out. I used to
hunt with my son and he'd help me with those duties, but he couldn't
convince his girlfriend to move from Wisconsin to Tennessee.....
And I agree, guys, watch yourself out there. Have fun, but be safe.
ratman1211
From: "Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers.com" <go-fi...@charter.net>
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: Bowhunters, I need your opinion Please!
Hello and good evening. Glad to hear you are doing good despite all the bouts
of pain occasionally. I myself kept having chest pains like you describe and
mine turned out to be a bad case of "Acid Reflux". Anyways to speak
of the swivel chair dude, ask him would he do that same trick with a hair trigger
loaded 30-06? Have a good one and be safe out there.
Frank
re: the heart. I hope you're following through with a good
cardiologist. An echo is only one test and looks at the heart as a
whole and not the coronary arteries. My last follow up was with an echo
and cardiolite stress test. Angioplasty with stents got rid of my
angina and I carry nitro tabs but have never used a single one. Heart
healthy diet which is mostly low fat and limited red meat, fish oil and
Lipitor have given what cardiologist considers as perfect cholesterol
and lipid results. With your moves, make sure you keep up with your health.
Chris Barnes
> I hunt with a crossbow and have trouble with deer in my yard but
> cannot shoot them.
> Personally, I would not have told this story as it is not real hunting
> requiring set up and chase. It's not hunting - it's pest control.
Out of all the deer I have shot in my entire life, only 1 was by
"chasing it". That one was my trip to Wyoming. The rest of them were
sitting in a stand watching a feeder or food plot.
Well, except for the one I shot (naked) from my back door. :-)
Imho, "hunting" is in the preparation. The pulling of a trigger (or a
bow string) is pretty irrelevant.
> Crossbow with scope at close range might allow neck shot but I would
> never take one even with a rifle as if you miss by a few inches you
> are out of the vital areas compared with the standard broadside chest
> shot. I've accidently made neck and spine shots and, while it can
> anchor the deer, it can be messy requiring more shots or neck
> slitting. It is unsettling not to make a clean kill.
Neck shots are not something I personally do, but I don't mind other
people taking them with a gun. The hydrostatic shock is sufficient to
cleanly kill.
But this is not something you get with an arrow. Arrows kill by
exsanguination (bleeding the animal). And you have to get pretty lucky
to hit a blood vessel of of enough size to effectively exsanguinate the
aniaml. Thus, neck shots with a bow would be in the "not ethical"
category (note that the list of things I put into that category is
REALLY SMALL as I am loathe to do anything that pits hunter v hunter).
> I got a crossbow permit because of back problems. Advantage of
> crossbow is that very little movement is required to get on target as
> bow is cocked and on hand like a rifle. Today's modern compounds have
> nearly as much power, speed and accuracy, so crossbow does not have
> these advantages. I know a guy with a compound this year that shot a
> buck at 48 yards which is something I would not have attempted with my
> crossbow.
I'll agree with you on the power & speed categories (in fact, a compound
usually has MORE). But not on the accuracy....
Back when I shot a compound, it took me 2 years of practicing 5
days/week before I got my first "robin hood". My (at the time) 8 yo
daughter got a "robin hood" on her FIRST 2 bolts w/ a crossbow. This
occurred at the Texas Parks & Wildlife Expo (a big family-friendly fair)
where they had a range setup for kids. Turns out, a dozen or so other
kids had done the same thing during the day....
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers.com
From: "Frank" <frankperi...@COMCAST.NET>
>
> re: the heart. I hope you're following through with a good cardiologist.
> An echo is only one test and looks at the heart as a whole and not the
> coronary arteries. My last follow up was with an echo and cardiolite
> stress test. Angioplasty with stents got rid of my angina and I carry
> nitro tabs but have never used a single one. Heart healthy diet which is
> mostly low fat and limited red meat, fish oil and Lipitor have given what
> cardiologist considers as perfect cholesterol and lipid results. With
> your moves, make sure you keep up with your health.
I've had every cardiac test known to man, as well as being treated by not
only my family doctor but five different cardiologists have examined me on
numerous occasions. Angioplasty with five stents has kept me alive, but
really has done nothing to relieve the symptoms. I still have chest
pain/shortness of breath several times a week, in fact, I'm having a bout
now, but I stopped typing to take a nitro. I have been tested for acid
reflux, esophageal spasms, been ct'd, mri'd, stress tested, echo'd, had
monitors, implanted gizmos and medicated until I rattled when I walked!
Just about everything that could be thought of has been tested, up to and
including my mental status. I am now the only person I know that has been
"certified sane" by two different mental health professionals.
I rarely get a chance to eat fast food, and probably the worst thing I eat
now is my once a month breakfast of two eggs, two sausage patties, toast and
grits at the Huddle House. Nothing at home is fried, but baked, roasted or
most often grilled. No heavy sauces or gravies are used and both my wife
and I cook without salt. Snacks are now mostly celery sticks, baby carrots
or radishes, but I confess to eating popcorn a couple times a month and I
still drink coffee in the morning and I refuse to give up my two cocktails
in the evening. 99% of the red meat I eat is wild game that I process
myself so I know there's no chemicals, no preservatives and no fat as that's
all trimmed off. I eat so much chicken that I should be able to lay eggs
and the amount of fish eaten should enable me to beat Olympic level
swimmers! And none of that fish is deep-fried (much to my dismay).
Potatoes (when I get them) are baked or boiled and I get to use "I can't
believe it's not butter." I don't believe it is butter by the way......
I've been "hospitalized, medicated and tested" deep into debt with what the
insurance company won't cover and still nothing has been accomplished other
than the doctors, cardiologists and pharmacists can now afford to go on
vacation and buy a new Mercedes.....
The worst part of it all was that with all the side-effects of the different
meds, I was feeling like crap on toast and STILL having shortness of breath
and chest pain. So in a fit of disgust, one morning I decided that I felt
good before the heart attack and all the medication. The medication wasn't
stopping the chest pain and shortness of breath and I was constantly tired,
gaining weight, suffering bouts of forgetfulness, bled like a stuck hog (for
days) if I nicked myself shaving or got a scratch, got dizzy if I stood up
too fast, passed out if I coughed too hard, had little/no stamina and
generally felt "off." So I chucked all the medications but the nitro. Now
I feel like my old self more, don't get dizzy or pass out, am down to my
pre-heart attack/medication weight, can be sent to the store for more than
two items without a list and I don't bleed excessively. I still get
shortness of breath and chest pain, but not all the side effects.
But, I'm still looking down at the dirt, I'm able to go fishing/hunting when
I feel decent, so I guess I'm not going to complain too much....I just gotta
be careful....
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers.com
Frank
One of the nice things about a crossbow is that you shoot it in like a
rifle and it does not require a lot of practice. With a bum neck, I was
having difficulty practicing with my compound as shooting a couple of
dozen arrows would make me sore for a few days. Now when I check my
crossbow scope shooting off a rest at 20 yards, I only shoot one arrow
and pull it from the target as I often do the "robin hood" ruining arrow
or nock.
Last doe I got with a compound, I hit at base of skull below the ear and
she dropped on the spot arrow sticking up vibrating for a minute.
That's when I went to doctor to get crossbow permit approved as I had
been aiming to broadside the doe. Also got a permit for PA but now the
whole state has gone crossbow.
In my experience, crossbowers are no more successful in bagging deer
than those with compounds.
IGot2P
> CRAP! This was supposed to go to Frank personally, not the group. Sorry
Well, you can delete it, can't you?
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers.com
news:hd9pe4$1qn$1...@news.netins.net...
> Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers.com wrote:
>> CRAP! This was supposed to go to Frank personally, not the group. Sorry
>
> Well, you can delete it, can't you?
Not from here I can't.
Alex Vitek
This a an eMail list and not a message board. And, not all message
boards will allow the users to delete messages after a set amount of
time has passed.
All the msgs in this list are sent to everyone else on the list or
sent out to the newsgroup. "What is done is done" as the saying goes.
Alex Vitek
----
Newsgroup Co-Moderator - rec.hunting
The rec.hunting archives: http://listserv.tamu.edu/archives/hunting.html
Frank
fish...@charter.net> wrote:
> CRAP! This was supposed to go to Frank personally, not the group. Sorry
Sounds like you're doing all you can. I was concerned that with your
move you might be neglecting the doctors.
Frank
IGot2P
For the heck of it I just canceled my post and it appeared to have
worked fine. Of course there is no way that I could take it back from
the eMail list but it certainly appears that I removed it from the
newsgroup.
Please advise.
Don
Chris Barnes
> For the heck of it I just canceled my post and it appeared to have
> worked fine. Of course there is no way that I could take it back from
> the eMail list but it certainly appears that I removed it from the
> newsgroup.
I still see your first post...
Chris Barnes
> CRAP! This was supposed to go to Frank personally, not the group. Sorry
Actually, I'm kind of glad you sent it to all of us. It's good for
everyone to keep perspective on the things in life that make it worth
living.
Fwiw, I would have done the same thing you did.
Chris Barnes
> In my experience, crossbowers are no more successful in bagging deer
> than those with compounds.
I agree with you. Despite the improved accuracy (for folks who don't
practice 5x/week), you still have to get within "bow range" and still
have to put the arrow/bolt in the same place.
IGot2P
I would imagine that is because you had already downloaded it. Of course
I cannot remove it from your computer but if you would have downloaded
the new posts after I deleted it you would not see it. In short, if
someone was to post a message and then delete it almost immediately the
odds of anyone seeing it would be remote.
Don
Alex Vitek
>For the heck of it I just canceled my post and it appeared to have
>worked fine. Of course there is no way that I could take it back
>from the eMail list but it certainly appears that I removed it from
>the newsgroup.
>
>Please advise.
Don,
I saw the "cancel" msg in the inbox for messages to be approved or
rejected. I did not approve it.
I have the feeling that once any msg goes through the channels and
makes it to the rec.hunting inbox it cannot be cancelled.
Have you checked to see if that message is available in the
rec.hunting archives.
IGot2P
Alex, I just checked and my original post is definitely in the archives
but it sure is not on my screen.
Don
Nick Cramer
Some newsreaders honor cancel and supersede, others don't. Mine does.
Chris Barnes
> I would imagine that is because you had already downloaded it. Of course
> I cannot remove it from your computer but if you would have downloaded
> the new posts after I deleted it you would not see it. In short, if
> someone was to post a message and then delete it almost immediately the
> odds of anyone seeing it would be remote.
That's a negative there ghostrider.
(1) I don't download messages from my newsserver - I read them off the
server.
(2) canceling a post might remove it from your newsserver, but with the
way that NNTP works, there is virtually a zero % chance that the
remove-post command will get propigated to other servers. And if it
does, there is no guarantees that the other news servers will honor the
command.
Using usenet since the 1980's regards.
Joe Bleaux
This is correct. Once a message is propagated, it is then is up to each server,
if it even gets the "cancel" message, to honor that "cancel." Many, even most,
do not because of the amount of "fake cancels" in the past (people canceling
posts they didn't like). For example, I read rec.hunting via a USENET server
and it did not receive the "cancel." On the other hand, USENET is much less
utilized now than it was even a couple of years ago, and many ISPs no longer
provide access (AT&T, for example), so while _technically_ your post is there
for all the world to see, not many are either interested or able to look at it.
Think of it as posting it on the bulletin board in the men's locker room of a
private club rather than on a billboard in Times Square. While _technically_ it
is "public" in both places, there's only a limited number of people who will see
it, and very limited in the case of locker room, and even those who are capable
of seeing it must still make a choice to see and read it.
Joe