Sako Accuracy
William Boyse
I have a Sako Varmit rifle in .243 Win. Since January I have been trying
to work up some accurate loads for varmits / targets and also for deer.
I use benchrest loading and cleaning equipment. I have tried two powders
and 4 bullets and many loads for each but cannot achieve the accuracy I
expect from this rifle.
I expect, using say 70 gr. Berger match or 85 gr. Sierra HPBT bullets,
that I should get about 1/2 MOA. Using say 95 gr. Nosler Partitions or
100 gr. Sierra SPBT bullets I expect about 1 MOA. I'm getting nowhere
near this, typically 2 and sometimes even 3 times this.
I took the rifle into a "benchrest" gunsmith (he has a 35lb .308 Win that
shoots 1 hole groups at 100 yards). He checked the scope, crown and
range tested the rifle and couldn't get it to shoot either. He's now
bedding the action, which won't hurt, but claims the gun really needs a
new barrel. He suggests a Hart light varmit stainless with 1 in 12 twist
(versus my 1 in 10). He wants 500 dollars for the barrel, installation
and action tuning. Frankly I'm in a little shock.
I have several questions for you gurus:
Is there anything Sako is likely to do about the accuracy of this rifle,
which I believe is substandard?
Is 500 a reasonable price for a new barrel with action tuning?
Will a 1 in 12 twist provide hunting accuracy for 100 gr bullets?
If I do get a new barrel, what about going to a 6.5/308 rather than the
6.0/308 = .243?
I've written letters to Sako and Stoeger (importer) and I'll wait and see
how the gun shoots after bedding.
Thanks
Bill Boyse
Bo...@netcom.com
Everyone in America has the right to their own STUPID opinion, including me.
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Bill Boyse
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Rick Eads
William Boyse (bo...@netcom.com) wrote:
: I have several questions for you gurus:
: Is there anything Sako is likely to do about the accuracy of this rifle,
: which I believe is substandard?
Unlikely but it never hurts to ask. If it does go back, be prepared
for a long wait.
: Is 500 a reasonable price for a new barrel with action tuning?
Depends. Who is the smith? For a Clay Spencer, Dan Dowling, etc.,
this may not be excessive. Hart Barrels are pricey but
they are also excellent. Generally Sako actions are pretty true to begin
with and the target trigger Sako puts on their Varmint rifles (if
you are lucky enough to have gotten one of the older Forester
Varmint rifles) really do not need any further work for varmint or
big game hunting applications. A Lilja or Chanlynn barrel would
also work well. For example, a rebarrel job from Chanlynn (Boulder)
runs about $300 (installed) for a match grade, cut-rifled, SS barrel in the
contour and twist of your choice. Get a copy of Precision Shooting.
Give Shilen, PAC-NOR, and Lilja a call and see what they charge.
: Will a 1 in 12 twist provide hunting accuracy for 100 gr bullets?
The 6mm bore can be pickey. I run with a 1/13 twist in my 6mm
Remington (Chanlynn) which works great for a 100 gr. Nosler
partition but is marginal for the 95 gr. BT. My rifle is really a varmint
rig by design and shoots best with bullets in the 55 to 85 gr.
class. Tell the barrel maker what bullet you want to shoot and ask
for his recommendation. I would think most would push you to a 1/11
or faster twist.
: If I do get a new barrel, what about going to a 6.5/308 rather than the
: 6.0/308 = .243?
This choice is up to you. I tend to favor the 6mm because of the
plethora of top notch, best-of-class, custom bullets available.
: I've written letters to Sako and Stoeger (importer) and I'll wait and see
: how the gun shoots after bedding.
I had my Sako Varminter (Forester) in .22-250 pilar glass bedded and
it shot pretty much the same. In general it shoots under an inch
for all of the bullets I've tried in it (40 to 55 gr.). It's never
shot a 3" group with anything though some Calhoon bullets shot like
crap (still under 2" though). It sounds like you could have a bad
barrel. Sako barrels are hammer forged which is usually a reliable
way of producing fairly accurate barrels. Sounds like you might
have ended up with a bummer instead of a hummer though.
Good luck!
Regards,
Rick Eads
ea...@col.hp.com
Robert E. Lee Smith
I think before you spend alot of money on a new barrell you should
experiment a lil more- Also contact SAKO I owned a Lightweight HUnter in
30-06 and it was superbly accurate. If there is anytghing wrong with it
they will take care of it. I have foun that it takes more than just 4
loads to figure out what that rifle likes > I had a Rem Mdl 7 in 243 and
it was very very fussy. The rate of twist that gunsmith is suggesting is
good for heavier bullets but will not stabilze the lighter ones. Try the
Hornady Spire Point that has a flat base. The flat bases are usually more
accurate then the boattails.What powders and primers were you using?
Email me if youd like to discuss this more and I shoot alot and love
reloading.My own 7 lb Rem 700 BDL in 6 mm Rem shoots one hole
groups,they dont have to weigh 35 lbs to do that. the barrell is free
floated and action glass bedded,thats all!!
Robin
William Boyse wrote:
>
> I have a Sako Varmit rifle in .243 Win. Since January I have been trying
> to work up some accurate loads for varmits / targets and also for deer.
> I use benchrest loading and cleaning equipment. I have tried two powders
> and 4 bullets and many loads for each but cannot achieve the accuracy I
> expect from this rifle.
>
> I expect, using say 70 gr. Berger match or 85 gr. Sierra HPBT bullets,
> that I should get about 1/2 MOA. Using say 95 gr. Nosler Partitions or
> 100 gr. Sierra SPBT bullets I expect about 1 MOA. I'm getting nowhere
> near this, typically 2 and sometimes even 3 times this.
>
> I took the rifle into a "benchrest" gunsmith (he has a 35lb .308 Win that
> shoots 1 hole groups at 100 yards). He checked the scope, crown and
> range tested the rifle and couldn't get it to shoot either. He's now
> bedding the action, which won't hurt, but claims the gun really needs a
> new barrel. He suggests a Hart light varmit stainless with 1 in 12 twist
> (versus my 1 in 10). He wants 500 dollars for the barrel, installation
> and action tuning. Frankly I'm in a little shock.
>
>
> Is there anything Sako is likely to do about the accuracy of this rifle,
> which I believe is substandard?
>
>
>
> 6.0/308 = .243?
>
> how the gun shoots after bedding.
>
>
> Bill Boyse
> Bo...@netcom.com
>
> Everyone in America has the right to their own STUPID opinion, including me.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Notice: anyone sending me, via email, unsolicited advertisements,
> offers, electronic magazines, or other electronic chaff will be
> charged $500 US per incident. Sending me such email constitutes
> legal acceptance of these terms.
>
> --
> Bill Boyse
> Bo...@netcom.com
>
> Everyone in America has the right to their own STUPID opinion, including me.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Notice: anyone sending me, via email, unsolicited advertisements,
> offers, electronic magazines, or other electronic chaff will be
> charged $500 US per incident. Sending me such email constitutes
> legal acceptance of these terms.
The Sako bunch use 1.5 MOA to pass muster with premium ammo (whatever that
means).
You should try the bedded result with something like Rems or Win premium off
sand
bags. If it still wont go 1.5 then I would reccomend the rifle going back along
with specs on the ammo used and a target. Sako used to be pretty good about
this.
Robin
D. Douglas Smith
You may have done this but, I'll offer it as a suggestion. I shoot a 243
ackley as a bench rest gun but have worked on 243 wins for many around
herebefore you go and spend all the money to have it rebarreled, unless
you really wnat too, try this.
If your using berger great I use berger 80 gr. norma cases fed 210 match
primers exclusively. Currently I am using 40.2 grains of varget and have
found that 39.5 varget works well with a 70 gr sierra match. 4064 also
works well as does aa4350. The 243 can be cantangerous. Make sure you
have found the otimum bullet seating depth. this can mean alot. 0.005"
can mean a lot in grouping. If your not neck sizing start. if your not
neck turning start. I recently eorked on a 243 for a freinds wife that
he had handloade carefully, what i found was very poorly prepared brass,
primer pokets not set uniform, necks not uniform and bullets just seated
to a depth. we turned this 2-3" rifle into a consistant .5" rifle after
we started getting them to cleean the bore right. You might try IMR4831
and mag primer for 100 gr nosler part or aa3100.
If you are going to rebarrel and all that go all the way with a good lone
wolf stock in fiberglass, some don't agree but bedding is just as
important as the chambering and barrel.
Mark Przybylowski
William Boyse <bo...@netcom.com> writes:
>I expect, using say 70 gr. Berger match or 85 gr. Sierra HPBT bullets,
>that I should get about 1/2 MOA. Using say 95 gr. Nosler Partitions or
>100 gr. Sierra SPBT bullets I expect about 1 MOA. I'm getting nowhere
>near this, typically 2 and sometimes even 3 times this.
Is your Sako an "old" model? (i.e L579) Or newbie M591 action?
The bullets that *should* shoot best (theoretically) should be the
Simonpure target/MATCH bullets Sierra Berger Shilen, etc. For strict
target work stay away from hunting bullets, as generally they simply wont
shoot to benchrest standards.
I take it you are getting groups from 1" to 1.5" at 100yds? This sort of
accuracy is all that is required for a hunting rifle. It is hard to say
what is at fault as not a lot is known about your reloading technique. Do
you weigh every charge? Weigh cases and only use common weights? Neck
turn your brass? Seat bullets just off the lands? By doing one or more
of these things (a combination of...) will certainly help somewhat. But
whether it will make you/yourgun shoot around 1/2" is another story. Even
though sako rifles are well made and very precise (The older ones are
Better), they are still production guns and were never meant to yield
benchrest accuracy (even in a varminter). While a lot of Sako's will
shoot 1/2" groups with some tinkering a lot wont and will require some
major work (re-barrelling, lapping lugs, etc).
>range tested the rifle and couldn't get it to shoot either. He's now
>bedding the action, which won't hurt, but claims the gun really needs a
>new barrel. He suggests a Hart light varmit stainless with 1 in 12 twist
>(versus my 1 in 10). He wants 500 dollars for the barrel, installation
>and action tuning. Frankly I'm in a little shock.
Get a price on a Remington 40XBBR, (A rifle that must shoot within 1/2"
for most calibers). It is a LOT more than your sako. why? The time
effort to polish/lap barrels (Trial and error of finding the right
barrel), the stockwork etc. And the testing to make sure it will deliver.
>I have several questions for you gurus:
>Is there anything Sako is likely to do about the accuracy of this rifle,
>which I believe is substandard?
No. The rifle is performing at designed. And it is a production gun, so
naturally quality (accuracy) will vary.. To be expected.
>Is 500 a reasonable price for a new barrel with action tuning?
What sort of barrel will be fitted? I would opt for a Hart barrel,
Sneider, Or Lilja.
>Will a 1 in 12 twist provide hunting accuracy for 100 gr bullets?
Probably not unless you are using Round nose bullets. REmington had a
problem with bullet instability with their 244REM (6mm REM) when they
first bough it out with a 1 in 12 twist. The 12" twist in this caliber
is for bullets up to about 87gn and is more for serious target use than
hunting.
>If I do get a new barrel, what about going to a 6.5/308 rather than the
>6.0/308 = .243?
If accuracy is your main goal. It would be foolish to go to a bore size
with fewer quality bullets (.264/6.5mm). You have the best chance with
.308 as there are many more bullets available in this cal and any of the
others you list.
>I've written letters to Sako and Stoeger (importer) and I'll wait and see
>how the gun shoots after bedding.
Bedding probably won't have too much effect on things in your case (IMHO).
Unless you are *real* lucky with what you buy, real accuracy (sub 1/2")
costs $$$ over a production gun.
Regards,
Mark.
--
--Mark Przybylowski
Applied Physics Dept. E-MAIL ==>low...@minyos.its.rmit.edu.au