Viscount Sandon
Sebastian Nelson
I was reading the 17th College of Arms newsletter and I saw that arms
had recently been granted to Caroline Jane Ryder, "commonly called
Viscountess Sandon, wife of Dudley Adrian Conroy Ryder of Burnt
Norton, Gloucestershire, commonly called Viscount Sandon..."
http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/Newsletter/017.htm
Can anyone tell me why it says "commonly called?"
Thanks!
Sebastian Nelson
Martin Goldstraw
Because this is a courtesy title. He is the son of The Earl of
Harrowby and as such is allowed to be known by one of his father's
subsidiary titles. He isn't really a Viscount in his own right.
Regards,
Martin
http://cheshire-heraldry.org.uk/weblog
Don Aitken
Wasn't, rather than isn't. He succeeded his father on the latter's
death on 2 October 2007, three months after the grant of these Arms.
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the From: address is not read.
To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com"
ccz...@googlemail.com
Don Aitken wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 08:02:39 -0700 (PDT), Martin Goldstraw
> <herald...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Jun 30, 3:09 pm, Sebastian Nelson <sebnel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I was reading the 17th College of Arms newsletter and I saw that arms
> >> had recently been granted to Caroline Jane Ryder, "commonly called
> >> Viscountess Sandon, wife of Dudley Adrian Conroy Ryder of Burnt
> >> Norton, Gloucestershire, commonly called Viscount Sandon..."
> >>
> >> http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/Newsletter/017.htm
> >>
> >> Can anyone tell me why it says "commonly called?"
> >> Thanks!
> >> Sebastian Nelson
> >Because this is a courtesy title. He is the son of The Earl of
> >Harrowby and as such is allowed to be known by one of his father's
> >subsidiary titles. He isn't really a Viscount in his own right.
> Wasn't, rather than isn't. He succeeded his father on the latter's
> death on 2 October 2007, three months after the grant of these Arms.
... and, as such, he is therefore now the viscount!
A less flippant point though: with arms granted to her, is Lady
Harrowby an heraldic heiress?
Turenne
>
> A less flippant point though: with arms granted to her, is Lady
>
Lady Harrowby is the daughter of Geoffrey Markes. I don't think that
there is an armiger called Markes, so I doubt it.
Richard L
Martin Goldstraw
Richard,
I think it may be possible that ccz(?) was asking if the Countess is
an heiress in right of being the recipient of a grant of her own arms
rather than was she the heiress of her father.
One can not be ones own heir; the male recipient of a grant (the
grantee) can not be his own heir and a female grantee can not be her
own heiress either. As the recipient of her own grant, she is not an
heiress but her arms can be transmitted to her heir(s) in exactly the
same way that any other armiger would quarter the arms of his mother
if she were an heiress.
Turenne
>Richard,
>I think it may be possible that ccz(?) was asking if the Countess is
>an heiress in right of being the recipient of a grant of her own arms
>rather than was she the heiress of her father.
I see what you mean. Wrong end of the stick....
C'mon ccz, what *did* you mean? :)
Richard L
ccz...@googlemail.com
> I think it may be possible that ccz(?) was asking if the Countess is
> an heiress in right of being the recipient of a grant of her own arms
> rather than was she the heiress of her father.
> One can not be ones own heir; the male recipient of a grant (the
> grantee) can not be his own heir and a female grantee can not be her
> own heiress either
True!
> As the recipient of her own grant, she is not an
> heiress but her arms can be transmitted to her heir(s) in exactly the
> same way that any other armiger would quarter the arms of his mother
> if she were an heiress.
That is indeed the answer to the question that I had intended.