Seal Identification: Painting of Robert Dudley
StephenP
National Gallery of Victoria (NGV) in Melbourne.
The seal is on the reverse of a painting of Robert Dudley, Earl of
Leicester.
http://heraldryonline.wordpress.com/2009/11/21/robert-dudley/
Can the heraldic collective assist?
Yours aye
Stephen
Turenne
coronet and the first part of the motto could read trouve/tronde/? The
second part may be belles/delles/oeiles?? As far as the charges are
concerned, I can't make out anything but the crescent.
Good Luck
Richard L
StephenP
Over at the HSS, Derek Howard has put forward the suggestion that they
are the Arms Henry Carey (or Cary), 1st Baron Hunsdon of Hunsdon (1526
– 1596) or one of his successors - Argent on a bend sable three roses
Argent in chief a crescent Sable. The bend is certainly Sable from the
hatching.
Yours aye
Stephen
David Cameron Staples
The impalement to sinister looks like "in pale two lions (passant
guardant?) and a crescent".
I mean, sure, the beasts could be anything, but I think there's strong
suggestion of manes and the lower beast has what looks like a lions tail
over its back.
I don't have the resources to put a name to this, though.
--
David Cameron Staples | staples AT unimelb DOT edu DOT au
Melbourne University | School of Engineering | IT Support
you know you're doomed when you have to whois your domain registrar
ID to find out your own phone number -- bash.org/?55524
David Cameron Staples
scripsit:
> in Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:24:52 -0800, StephenP in hic loco scripsit:
>
>> On 22 Nov, 20:12, Turenne <rick.lich...@virgin.net> wrote:
>>> Gosh! It's a bit difficult to decipher. It looks like a viscounts's
>>> coronet and the first part of the motto could read trouve/tronde/? The
>>> second part may be belles/delles/oeiles?? As far as the charges are
>>> concerned, I can't make out anything but the crescent.
>>>
>>> Good Luck
>>>
>>> Richard L
>>
>> Over at the HSS, Derek Howard has put forward the suggestion that they
>> are the Arms Henry Carey (or Cary), 1st Baron Hunsdon of Hunsdon (1526
>> – 1596) or one of his successors - Argent on a bend sable three roses
>> Argent in chief a crescent Sable. The bend is certainly Sable from the
>> hatching.
>
>
> The impalement to sinister looks like "in pale two lions (passant
> guardant?) and a crescent".
> I mean, sure, the beasts could be anything, but I think there's strong
> suggestion of manes and the lower beast has what looks like a lions tail
> over its back.
>
> I don't have the resources to put a name to this, though.
Motto: "ET RONDE D'ELLES"?
--
David Cameron Staples | staples AT unimelb DOT edu DOT au
Melbourne University | School of Engineering | IT Support
gravity is a resource hog. -- bash.org/?243112
for Nicolai
wrote:
> in Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:24:52 -0800, StephenP in hic loco scripsit:
>
> guardant?) and a crescent".
> I mean, sure, the beasts could be anything, but I think there's strong
> suggestion of manes and the lower beast has what looks like a lions tail
> over its back.
>
Hi David,
I thought the same, but if I take a copy of the lion and place it
above the first one
....it creates - leaves an odd (large) space above....
but if you step away and look at it from a distance
there is enough room for a coronet
which has a "similar" outline as a lion
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Str%C3%B6hl-Regentenkronen-Fig._31.png
it definitely would make better use of the upper space in the shield!
guy
NAME: DUDLEY
BLAZON: Or, two lions passsant azure a bordure engrailed azure.
CREST: Out of a ducal coronet or, a lion's head azure collared and
ringed gold.
MOTTO: None recorded.
http://www.luz-herald.net/free/BURKE_S/SURNAMES_BEGINNING_WITH_THE4.HTM
==========
Here's a different portrait of Robert Dudley with his coats of arms
painted:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Robert_Dudley_Leicester.jpg
David Cameron Staples
I think you're right. So: In pale, a crown, a lion passant guardant, and
a crescent.
Now I look at it with a crown in mind, I think I can see leaves
(strawberry? at least for the center point), and there is definitely a
chapeau, but I can't see if there are arches. Maybe a coronet?
--
David Cameron Staples | staples AT unimelb DOT edu DOT au
Melbourne University | School of Engineering | IT Support
I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code.
-- bash.org/?74963
for Nicolai
do you think it might be possible???
http://www.bild-hoster.de/images/FrankMartinoff/dudleyportraitsealaltered.jpg
I looked a little closer at those "roses",
somehow I have a hard time with the three roses,
the left side of the one in the center
isn't broken .....it looks to me like a perfectly intact stem
of a three leave clover.......
(also the hatching around the stem is perfectly preserved )
....but I can't be sure ...................
............
I fixed the top leave in the center!
StephenP
having passed on Derek's thoughts, viz;
"In answer to your question about how the painting might have ended up
in the possession of a Carey, I think I may have an explanation. The
Camden Fifth Series journal in 1995 dedicated a volume to the
“household accounts and disbursements” of Robert Dudley. One of the
indices is a list of people in Dudley’s household. It mentions a Sir
Edmund Carey (1558–1637), 6th son of Henry Carey and Ann(e) Morgan,
who was in Leicester’s service c. 1582 and accompanied him to the
Netherlands in 1585. He also was caretaker/keeper of Leicester’s
property Grafton House. It’s possible that Dudley gave Edmund Carey
the portrait as a gift."
Yours aye
Stephen
julia_aust
>
> I looked a little closer at those "roses",
> somehow I have a hard time with the three roses,
> the left side of the one in the center
> isn't broken .....it looks to me like a perfectly intact stem
> of a three leave clover.......
> (also the hatching around the stem is perfectly preserved )
>
> ....but I can't be sure ...................
>
> ............
>
> I fixed the top leave in the center!
Hi everyone, I'm the one with the dudley problem! thanks firstly to
Stephen for reposting the problem on here! and thanks to you all for
posting your ideas! down here we're leaning toward the crown as the
charge in the impalement to the sinister, above a lion passant and
crescent. i've done some research into heraldic representations of
crowns. in the image posted earlier, there's a distinct bridge at the
peak which is reflected in the examples here
http://www7b.biglobe.ne.jp/~bprince/hr/foxdavies/fdguide22.htm. (see
figs 638, 639 and 640.)
what could be the uppermost charge in the bend sable be?
Oh, and cheers David for suggesting the motto might be "et ronde
d'elles".
Alex Maxwell Findlater
I don't know whether anyone has identified the sinister coat yet.
Might I suggest that you might look at Dillon. The 6th Viscount
Falkland married secondly Laura sister of 10th Viscount Dillon
sometime after the death of his first wife in 1722.
The Dillon arms are Argent a lion passant between three crescents
Gules. There is certainly a lion passant and in base a crescent;
where the two crescents in chief would be the wax is chipped off.
The dexter supporter is definitely an unicorn, which is still borne by
Lord Falkland, the sinister should be a lion guardant gorged and
ducally crowned; only the legs are not effaced, but they at least are
consistent with a lion's. The motto of the Carys of Falkland is IN
UTROQUE FIDELIS. I can certainly make out UTROQUE beneath the unicorn
and ...DELLIS opposite.
for Nicolai
"""The Dillon arms are Argent a lion passant between three crescents
Gules. There is certainly a lion passant and in base a crescent;
where the two crescents in chief would be the wax is chipped off. """
Hi Alex,
Somehow I just have a hard time with two crescents above the lion!
(what is left of the original doesn't equate to two crescents)
.....and thank you for drawing attention to the "horn" of the unicorn!