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An Caisleanghearr

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Sean J Murphy

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Aug 31, 2007, 8:45:09 PM8/31/07
to
The alas unreliable list of Irish Chiefs on Wikipedia currently features
an entry for 'An Caisleanghearr', which appears to indicate that the
Barony of Castleshort has been upgraded to a full chiefship
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiefs_of_the_Name). The Baron, of
Galloglas Guard fame, continues to be the subject of critical discussion
on the unofficial British Army chat site, and an interesting photograph
featuring the breast star of the Niadh Nask has recently been posted
(http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=8811/start=3300.html).

Sean Murphy
Irish Chiefswatch
http://homepage.eircom.net/%7Eseanjmurphy/chiefs/chiefswatch.htm

Andrew Chaplin

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Aug 31, 2007, 8:58:24 PM8/31/07
to
"Sean J Murphy" <sjbm...@SPAMOUTeircom.net> wrote in message
news:oC2Ci.21852$j7.3...@news.indigo.ie...

It looks as if he is wearing a Canadian Centennial Medal three in from his
armpit.
http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/content/collections/cmdp/images/ccm-l.gif
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)


Sean J Murphy

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Sep 1, 2007, 7:38:04 AM9/1/07
to
Andrew Chaplin wrote:
> "Sean J Murphy" <sjbm...@SPAMOUTeircom.net> wrote in message
> news:oC2Ci.21852$j7.3...@news.indigo.ie...
>
>>The alas unreliable list of Irish Chiefs on Wikipedia currently features an
>>entry for 'An Caisleanghearr', which appears to indicate that the Barony of
>>Castleshort has been upgraded to a full chiefship
>>(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiefs_of_the_Name). The Baron, of Galloglas
>>Guard fame, continues to be the subject of critical discussion on the
>>unofficial British Army chat site, and an interesting photograph featuring
>>the breast star of the Niadh Nask has recently been posted
>>(http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=8811/start=3300.html).
>>
>>Sean Murphy
>>Irish Chiefswatch
>>http://homepage.eircom.net/%7Eseanjmurphy/chiefs/chiefswatch.htm
>
>
> It looks as if he is wearing a Canadian Centennial Medal three in from his
> armpit.
> http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/content/collections/cmdp/images/ccm-l.gif

God bless your eyesight. And is the Baron entitled to wear this medal?

Sean Murphy

Andrew Chaplin

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Sep 1, 2007, 9:10:58 AM9/1/07
to
"Sean J Murphy" <sjbm...@SPAMOUTeircom.net> wrote in message
news:yacCi.21861$j7.3...@news.indigo.ie...

I should say it looks like the Centennial Medal's ribbon, I cannot make out
what is suspended from it. I suppose there might be gongs out there with
similar ribbons, but it certainly strikes me as one of ours.

He is coy about his age but, from his pattern of studies, I suspect he was
born ca. 1950. This would have made him about 17 years of age when the
Centennial Medal was handed out. Canada was a more conservative place then,
and I am pretty sure if a lad that young had received the medal, mokes like me
would have heard of him.

BTW, the Legion of Frontiersmen is pretty dead in Canada. I think they parade
to the left of the Knight of Columbus, if at all.

Turenne

unread,
Sep 1, 2007, 5:01:08 PM9/1/07
to
Andrew Chaplin wrote:

>I suspect he was born ca. 1950.

It states on his website:

http://home.earthlink.net/~rggsibiba/html/castleshort/castleshort.html

.... that 'James Gerard Richard Shortt (Séamus Géroid Rístead
MacAngearr) was born in 1953 to Peter Henry Shortt (Péader MacAngearr)
of Glenmore, County Cork and his wife Maura (Farrelly - née: Moire
Anna O'faircheallaigh) of Glasleck. County Cavan.'

Richard Lichten

StephenP

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Sep 2, 2007, 9:01:12 AM9/2/07
to
It seems to get better. The Baron of Castleshort is now leading the
Clan MacShort;

"Clan MacShort - (McAnghearre, Short, Shortt, Shorte, Schorte,
Shortte, McShort, MacShortt, McShortt, O'Girr, Girr, Gearre, Gear,
McGirr, MacGirre) are all forms from the central Clan name. One of the
early and strongest galloglas or "foreign Swords" families to enter
Ireland from Scotland. They came over to assist the Irish Kings in
their wars and make up their armies. The Clan is newly organized and
led by the Baron Castleshort. "

http://www.ulsterclans.org/

Perhaps he should be known as The O'Walt?

Yours aye

Stephen


Andrew Chaplin

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Sep 2, 2007, 9:16:08 AM9/2/07
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"StephenP" <plo...@uk2.net> wrote in message
news:1188738072.5...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...

Oh, dear.

At this point, I half expect Akins of that Bulk to stumble into the picture,
complete with raccoon sporran.

Sean J Murphy

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Sep 2, 2007, 10:34:47 AM9/2/07
to

Interesting. Reprising the ambiguity between MacCarthy and MacCartney,
the surname Short in Ireland can be of two origins, straightforward
English or an anglicisation of Mac an Ghirr, the second element being a
form of the Gaelic for 'short'. I cannot at the moment confirm a
Scottish galloglas association for Mac an Ghirr, usually anglicised
McGirr. The idea that there existed a 'clan' to which all Shorts
belonged is clearly nonsensical. Terence MacCarthy of course invented
the baronial title of Castleshort, and the good Baron's references to
various places of the name in Kerry and Cork do not show that they had
any association with the surname
Short(http://home.earthlink.net/~rggsibiba/html/castleshort/castleshort.html).
James Shortt's biography indeed states that he was born in 1953, his
father being from Co Cork, but it is unclear whether his own birthplace
was in Ireland or England. There is a claim that the Baron was formerly
of a council house in Purley, London
(http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/printertopic=1/t=8811/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=3030.html).

StephenP

unread,
Sep 2, 2007, 11:25:47 AM9/2/07
to
On Sep 2, 3:34 pm, Sean J Murphy <sjbmur...@SPAMOUTeircom.net> wrote:

> James Shortt's biography indeed states that he was born in 1953, his
> father being from Co Cork, but it is unclear whether his own birthplace
> was in Ireland or England. There is a claim that the Baron was formerly
> of a council house in Purley, London


Croydon;

>From the register of BMDs;

4th Quarter 1953
Shortt, James G R -
Mother's name; Farrelly
Place: Croydon
Ref: 5g 35

Yours aye

Stephen

Sean J Murphy

unread,
Sep 2, 2007, 2:34:11 PM9/2/07
to
StephenP wrote:

Thanks for that. Just as Terence MacCarthy famously instructed the
Office of the Chief Herald of Ireland not to mention Belfast when
preparing his certificate of chiefship, so too the Croydon birthplace of
the Baron of Castleshort is not indicated in his biography.

Sean Murphy
Letter of Terence MacCarthy 1991
http://homepage.eircom.net/%7Eseanjmurphy/chiefs/deputychletter.html

StephenP

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Sep 2, 2007, 2:38:26 PM9/2/07
to
What is it about "Walts" and bodyguards. Prince Michael of Albany was
the President of the International Bodyguard and Security Services
Association (http://www.ibssa.ro/eibsaint.html) and the Baron
Castleshort is the Director General of The International Bodyguard
Association;

IBA HQ
Castleshort Lodge, Kilmuckridge
Co. Wexford
Tel + 353 53 9130821
Fax + 353 53 9130822
E-Mail d...@ibabodyguards.com
Web Sitehttp://www.ibabodyguards.com

One other thing; How easy is it to discover if the good baron is a
Knight of St Gregory?

Yours aye

Stephen

Turenne

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Sep 2, 2007, 3:46:35 PM9/2/07
to
Stephen wrote:
>
> One other thing; How easy is it to discover if the good baron is a
> Knight of St Gregory?


Here is a list of the members of The Association of Papal Orders in
Great Britain, Pius IX, St Gregory and St Sylvester.

http://www.papalknights.org.uk/assoc-members.html

I don't know how old the list is..

Richard L


Sean J Murphy

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Sep 2, 2007, 9:20:55 PM9/2/07
to

No sign of any James Shortt on the list, which appears to be dated 2007.
On the most recent version of his biography, he states specifically that
he is a member of the 'UK Association of Papal Knights having been
created a Knight Commander of St Gregory by Pope John Paul II in
recognition for his work in towards moving the Cold War to an end'
(http://ibabodyguards.com/castleshort.htm)

Sean Murphy

Turenne

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Sep 3, 2007, 4:40:31 PM9/3/07
to
> Sean Murphy- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On this site Mr Short seems to have added the appelation 'Chevalier'
to his other 'titles'.

http://home.earthlink.net/~rggsibiba/html/galloglas/gallohist.html

Please note the bibliography at the end. All references to Terence
McCarthy's books have been expunged.

Richard

Sean J Murphy

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Sep 3, 2007, 7:46:28 PM9/3/07
to

I note some discussions on this forum over the years on the subject of
fake papal orders, and on 19 January last there was an intriguing
mention of their alleged sale to 'Niadh Nask folks'. Am I barking up the
wrong tree here?

Sean Murphy

professor

unread,
Sep 4, 2007, 12:40:22 AM9/4/07
to
No. It is the right tree. There are over 50 fake papal orders floating
around. I have the names of over 25 people who have them.

Carl Edwin Lindgren

>
> I note some discussions on this forum over the years on the subject of
> fake papal orders, and on 19 January last there was an intriguing
> mention of their alleged sale to 'Niadh Nask folks'. Am I barking up the
> wrong tree here?
>

bur...@byronik.com

unread,
Sep 4, 2007, 12:40:47 AM9/4/07
to
The Walt medals may be seen a little more clearly at http://byronik.com/waltmedals1.jpg

Hope this helps.

M


On Sep 1, 6:10 am, "Andrew Chaplin" <ab.chap...@yourfinger.rogers.com>
wrote:
> "Sean J Murphy" <sjbmur...@SPAMOUTeircom.net> wrote in messagenews:yacCi.21861$j7.3...@news.indigo.ie...
>
>
>
> > Andrew Chaplin wrote:
> >> "Sean J Murphy" <sjbmur...@SPAMOUTeircom.net> wrote in message

StephenP

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Sep 4, 2007, 3:17:38 AM9/4/07
to
On 4 Sep, 05:40, professor <lindgren.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> No. It is the right tree. There are over 50 fake papal orders floating
> around. I have the names of over 25 people who have them.
>
> Carl Edwin Lindgren
>

One has to wonder if they have been duped yet again or if they know
they have bogus goods.

Yours aye

Stephen


Sean J Murphy

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Sep 4, 2007, 3:38:54 AM9/4/07
to

The obvious question is if you can say whether James Shortt, styled
Baron of Castleshort, holds one of of the fake papal orders. Here again
is his own account:

'The Baron of Castleshort . . . . . is a member of the Irish Papal
Awards Association and the UK Association of Papal Knights having been

created a Knight Commander of St Gregory by Pope John Paul II in

recognition for his work in towards moving the Cold War to an end.'
http://ibabodyguards.com/castleshort.htm

Sean Murphy

StephenP

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Sep 4, 2007, 3:45:44 AM9/4/07
to
On 4 Sep, 08:38, Sean J Murphy <sjbmur...@SPAMOUTeircom.net> wrote:

> The obvious question is if you can say whether James Shortt, styled
> Baron of Castleshort, holds one of of the fake papal orders.

If you had a genuine Papal Order why bother with all the other
"froth"?

Yours aye

Stephen


KCMG

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Sep 4, 2007, 4:25:31 AM9/4/07
to

Such people are not made papal knights. Is he a practising Catholic?
Is he an active contributor to the Church?

It is ludicrous to think that anyone (apart from maybe a President)
would be "recognised for his work in ending the Cold War".

The papal knights I am acquainted with tend to have the knighthood
following a very substantial financial contribution to something like
a Church related building project. It is recommended by the local
bishop, and incredible to think that His Lordship the Bishop of
wherever this fellow lives would pick him out for his significant (!)
role in ending the Cold War.


Turenne

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Sep 4, 2007, 4:34:23 AM9/4/07
to
the professor wrote:

> No. It is the right tree. There are over 50 fake papal orders floating
> around. I have the names of over 25 people who have them.

Some Knights of the Holy Sepulchre in Canada, several of whom seem to
have Irish grants of arms, have taken to using the prefix 'Sir', is
this condoned by the papacy?

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/5126/EOHS_ARMS.html

It really is about time that The Pope, or whoever is responsible for
papal orders, to tidy matters up.

Richard


StephenP

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Sep 4, 2007, 5:27:09 AM9/4/07
to
Richard

I think it might be more down to the EOHS in Canada to sort things out
- it might purely be a misunderstanding by the webmaster.

I don't think the EOHS permits anything other than post nominals - one
for Guy SS to confirm perhaps?

Yours aye

Stephen

Turenne

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Sep 4, 2007, 12:36:15 PM9/4/07
to
On 4 Sep, 10:27, StephenP <plow...@uk2.net> wrote:

I don't think the EOHS permits anything other than post nominals -
one
for Guy SS to confirm perhaps?

Thanks for your observation Stephen. Yes; I too would be interested in
hearing Guy's comments.

Richard


StephenP

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Sep 5, 2007, 2:54:58 AM9/5/07
to
On 3 Sep, 02:20, Sean J Murphy <sjbmur...@SPAMOUTeircom.net> wrote:
>
> No sign of any James Shortt on the list, which appears to be dated 2007.
> On the most recent version of his biography, he states specifically that
> he is a member of the 'UK Association of Papal Knights having been
> created a Knight Commander of St Gregory by Pope John Paul II in
> recognition for his work in towards moving the Cold War to an end'
> (http://ibabodyguards.com/castleshort.htm)
>
> Sean Murphy

I am not familiar with the RC dioceses in Ireland, so can someone
identify within which one Kilmuckridge, Co. Wexford falls? A quick
line to the Bishop might clarify the good baron's knightly status.

Yours aye

Stephen


Sean J Murphy

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Sep 5, 2007, 6:56:53 AM9/5/07
to

That would be the Diocese of Ferns, and here is the Bishop's webpage
with contact details, and indeed an illustration of his coat of arms:
http://www.ferns.ie/Bishop.shtml I have tried an e-mail query as suggested.

Sean Murphy

Jan Böhme

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Sep 5, 2007, 7:01:54 AM9/5/07
to
On 5 Sep, 08:54, StephenP <plow...@uk2.net> wrote:

> I am not familiar with the RC dioceses in Ireland, so can someone
> identify within which one Kilmuckridge, Co. Wexford falls? A quick
> line to the Bishop might clarify the good baron's knightly status.

Wexford unfortunately isn't located within only one diocese, but a
quick perusal of Wikipeida seems to give the answer "probably Ferns,
if not, Dublin".

Sean probably can do better.

Jan Böhme

Laurence Jones

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Sep 5, 2007, 4:49:52 AM9/5/07
to

>
> I am not familiar with the RC dioceses in Ireland, so can someone
> identify within which one Kilmuckridge, Co. Wexford falls? A quick
> line to the Bishop might clarify the good baron's knightly status.
>

That would be The Diocese of Ferns http://www.ferns.ie/

(rather amusingly for "Father Ted" fans he is Bishop Brennnan!)


StephenP

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Sep 5, 2007, 11:29:26 AM9/5/07
to
On 5 Sep, 11:56, Sean J Murphy <sjbmur...@SPAMOUTeircom.net> wrote:

>
> That would be the Diocese of Ferns, and here is the Bishop's webpage
> with contact details, and indeed an illustration of his coat of arms:http://www.ferns.ie/Bishop.shtml I have tried an e-mail query as suggested.
>
> Sean Murphy

Excellent, we await the response with interest.

Another website listing the good baron's achievements;

http://www.finjutsu.com/Henkilogalleria/Henkilogalleria_ulkom/Shortt/body_shortt.html

I am particularly amused about him being "Parachute & Ranger qualified
Cadet 1st Cdt Bn Queens Regt (1969-1970)". The Army Cadet Force do
many things but getting your para wings is not likely to be one of
them at the age of 16/17.

Yours aye

Stephen

Andrew Chaplin

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Sep 5, 2007, 12:55:24 PM9/5/07
to
"StephenP" <plo...@uk2.net> wrote in message
news:1189006166.4...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

Actually, I think they may well have. Both Canada's and the U.K.'s cadet
programmes used to qualify participants in parachuting. The Canadian programme
still does. I think the U.K. programme now restricts itself to "pre-parachute
selection" for those who want to join the Parachute Regiment.

Turenne

unread,
Sep 5, 2007, 1:31:39 PM9/5/07
to
There is an amusing contradiction in Mr Shortt's biography:

http://home.earthlink.net/~rggsibiba/html/castleshort/castleshort.html

>>>'He studied initially for the Catholic priesthood for 5 years and entered the Capuchin Franciscan Order (Irish Province). In 1976, he left the Capuchin order and married Georgina Barrett of Malabar Hill, India.'

>>> 'From 1975 he was Director of Training for The Combat Training Team, with responsibility for training Regular & Reserve NATO forces in Combat skills (Close-Quarter-Battle, Combat Survival and Combat Medicine).'

Not only was he only 22 years old when he was 'Director of Training
etc,' but he also found time to don a monastic habit in his spare
time!

Richard

Barbara Bailey

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Sep 5, 2007, 5:04:50 PM9/5/07
to


It's only slightly less likely that pigs will fly than that a fully
professed Capuchin Friar would be allowed to serve as "Director of


Training for The Combat Training Team, with responsibility for
training Regular & Reserve NATO forces in Combat skills
(Close-Quarter-Battle, Combat Survival and Combat Medicine)."

The Capuchins are a pastoral and evangelical order, and are unlikely
to have allowed one of theirs to teach Combat Skills.
It also takes at least 4 years from acceptance into the postulancy to
Final Profession: The period of time spent as a Postulant is delegated
to the Provincial Minister, so it can vary but it must exist. The
Novitiate must last at least 1 year, but can last longer. The length
of the Post-Novitiate is also up to the Provincial Minister. There is
a requirement for First Profession (or Temporary Vows,) for a period
which must last at least three years, but no longer than nine years.
Following the completion of the three year minimum of First
Profession, Final Vows may be taken, but they are never allowed before
the candidates 21st birthday.

Andrew Chaplin

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Sep 5, 2007, 5:16:03 PM9/5/07
to
"Barbara Bailey" <rabr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:df6ud35ltfvmjgn9v...@4ax.com...

He was in their Shaolin community, studying under David Carradine.

Turenne

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Sep 5, 2007, 5:27:56 PM9/5/07
to
On 5 Sep, 22:16, "Andrew Chaplin" <ab.chap...@yourfinger.rogers.com>
wrote:
> "Barbara Bailey" <rabrab...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Great minds think alike; I thought the same thing!

Richard

professor

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Sep 5, 2007, 7:32:13 PM9/5/07
to

Well, do you see his name on the list of knights? Most are NN.
Personally, they are a good group individually. They just keep
sticking they foot into it. Of course I have in the past so I cannot
and will not judge. It just seems to me if you are not Equestrian or
Malta, how do you expect to gain a papal order. In Mississippi you
have to be Equestrian for 10 years before you are even considered and
even then it is 1 in a 100.

Carl

KCMG

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Sep 5, 2007, 8:52:58 PM9/5/07
to

Reading through the biography at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rggsibiba/html/castleshort/castleshort.html

Assuming no credence is given to the nobility aspect, it is still
actually quite impressive, his decorations from a range of countries,
and his various commissioned ranks, etc.

But is it true? Any ideas?

professor

unread,
Sep 6, 2007, 12:00:22 AM9/6/07
to
Hi Richard:

The Equestrian Order's membership, especially in Australia and Canada,
have used the term "Sir" in many documents, corresondences and
articles. However, the term is only meant as a friendly greeting
between fellow knights and should only be used in private
correspondences. However, this has not stopped many members from using
the term. In fact, several Knights of the Collar use it on their
books. Note: the rather nice book by "Sir" Alfred J. Blasco entitled
"The Modern Crusaders" One would think that he knows the best use of
the term when related to the Equestrian Order. However, the term is
simply NOT correct outside of personal correspondences between knights
of the Order.

Carl

StephenP

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Sep 6, 2007, 3:34:10 AM9/6/07
to
On 6 Sep, 00:32, professor <lindgren.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, do you see his name on the list of knights? Most are NN.
> Personally, they are a good group individually. They just keep
> sticking they foot into it. Of course I have in the past so I cannot
> and will not judge. It just seems to me if you are not Equestrian or
> Malta, how do you expect to gain a papal order. In Mississippi you
> have to be Equestrian for 10 years before you are even considered and
> even then it is 1 in a 100.
>
> Carl
>

The only Knight of St Gregory I knew (in the UK) received the Papal
knighthood because of his work at Plater College, the Catenian
Association and the Ampleforth Lourdes Pilgrimage. Sadly he died
earlier this year and was buried in his uniform of the Order along
with the ashes of his wife of 64 years who predeceased him.

Yours aye

Stephen

Turenne

unread,
Sep 6, 2007, 9:07:58 AM9/6/07
to
KCMG wrote:

>Assuming no credence is given to the nobility aspect, it is still
>actually quite impressive, his decorations from a range of countries,
>and his various commissioned ranks, etc.


>But is it true? Any ideas?


He himself states that in 1975 he was 'Director of Training for The
Combat Training Team...' Putting aside the 'fact' of his directorship,
(and that he was a Capuchin monk at the time), what did he do before
to earn this position? He makes no mention of normal army service
either in Britain or Ireland.

The chaps on the British Army Rumour Service site:

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=8811/start=3300.html

..seem to take a very dim view of Mr Short's awards and decorations.
If serving / erstwhile soldiers think that his C.V. is a load of
rubbish, I for one am loath to disagree with them.

Let's also not forget that the whole premise of his claim to the Baron
of Castleshort is in itself bogus insofar that; to quote Sean Murphy;
'Terence MacCarthy of course invented the baronial title of
Castleshort,..'

Richard

Turenne

unread,
Sep 6, 2007, 9:10:09 AM9/6/07
to
Correction:

...to be the Baron of...

R


KCMG

unread,
Sep 6, 2007, 9:16:16 PM9/6/07
to

Thanks for directing me that link. Yes, the expert opinion seems to
confirm it is rubbish. What struck me as odd was that, assuming it to
be primarily rubbish, how can anyone possibly be so brazen??

There is another Security organization, IBSS or something, which also
goes in for some slightly dubious things....

Is there a proper association for professional bodyguards (e.g. a
Chartered Institute or something?).

Chris Winkelmann

unread,
Sep 6, 2007, 10:51:39 PM9/6/07
to
Greetings,

If one is interested in whether an individual has been awarded a Papal
Honor, they can:

1) Look in the "Actae Apolosticae Sedis", the annual record of Papal
Acts, in the year it was claimed to occur (major municipal libraries
can help obtain a copy);
2) Write the Papal Nuncio of the country in which the alleged
recipient resides;
3) Write the Secretariat of State of the Holy See.

Cheers,

Chris Winkelmann

Sean J Murphy

unread,
Sep 7, 2007, 6:23:04 PM9/7/07
to

No reply yet from Ferns Diocese, but I will consider those other options
you list.

Sean Murphy

Turenne

unread,
Sep 7, 2007, 7:12:19 PM9/7/07
to
KCMG wrote:

>What struck me as odd was that, assuming it to
>be primarily rubbish, how can anyone possibly be so brazen??

The whole thing is self perpetuating. One dodgy group gives another
group an honour and the honour is reciprocated, before you can say
'Jack Robinson' you've got a chestful of dubious decorations. When
people like McCarthy and 'Prince Andre of Guise' were peddling their
wares, unsuspecting dupes were reluctant to check too closely what
they were buying, possibly in the hope that what they were getting was
genuine. Sadly, these orders seem to be proliferating and in the case
of catholic orders it's only representatives of the Holy See that can
tidy things up.

Richard

KCMG

unread,
Sep 7, 2007, 8:56:13 PM9/7/07
to

Out of interest, I did so searching on body gaurd associations, and
notice this IBA seems to have representatives in many nations. Also,
the Australian Institute of Public Safety (http://www.aips.com.au/
discover_aips/discover_aips_memberships.html)
seems to be reputable, or, at least genuine, seems to think they are
worthwhile.

So, his organisation perhaps is not complete rubbish as far as the
security side is concerned.

But, all the nobility and chivalric stuff does make it look
unprofessional. Perhaps there is a low "Corporate IQ" in the security
world?

barrassie

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Sep 8, 2007, 6:19:30 AM9/8/07
to
On Sep 4, 8:45 am, StephenP <plow...@uk2.net> wrote:

> On 4 Sep, 08:38, Sean J Murphy <sjbmur...@SPAMOUTeircom.net> wrote:
>
> > The obvious question is if you can say whether James Shortt, styled
> > Baron of Castleshort, holds one of of the fake papal orders.
>
> If you had a genuine Papal Order why bother with all the other
> "froth"?
>
> Yours aye
>
> Stephen

> If you had a genuine Papal Order why bother with all the other
> "froth"?
Some time ago I looked up a list of VC holders and their medals, one
VC had added an unauthorised WWI star! There is a photo of the VC with
his medals.
Charles

StephenP

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Sep 8, 2007, 6:25:44 AM9/8/07
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On Sep 8, 1:56 am, KCMG <qat-che...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Out of interest, I did so searching on body gaurd associations, and
> notice this IBA seems to have representatives in many nations. Also,
> the Australian Institute of Public Safety (http://www.aips.com.au/
> discover_aips/discover_aips_memberships.html)
> seems to be reputable, or, at least genuine, seems to think they are
> worthwhile.
>
> So, his organisation perhaps is not complete rubbish as far as the
> security side is concerned.
>
> But, all the nobility and chivalric stuff does make it look
> unprofessional. Perhaps there is a low "Corporate IQ" in the security
> world?

If I can copy & paste a quote from one of the posts at the Army Rumour
Service;

"As to Jimbo Shortt, first met him in 1985 at COPEX in London. A WO1 I
knew from 21 SAS was there and he pointed him out to me and told me to
watch while 'security' had a word with him. Jimbo and his mates on
their stand for the COMBAT TRAINING TEAM were wearing windproof smocks
and lighttweights and had beige berets with winged dagger badges
poking out of various pockets.

Anyway, the 'security' at COPEX was provided by a firm run by 21 SAS
and they had a word..........all the SAS paraphenalia magically
disappeard from Jimbo's stand. My WO1 from 21 SAS told me
categorically that Jimbo was nothing to do with 21 SAS. Some weeks
later I mentioned Jimbo to a sneaky who also told me categorically
that Jimbo was nothing to do with the SAS or even the Army."

No real surprise there then.

Yours aye

Stephen


Turenne

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Sep 8, 2007, 12:44:37 PM9/8/07
to
Stephen wrote:

>...categorically that Jimbo was nothing to do with the SAS or even the Army."

>No real surprise there then.

As you say, 'No real surprise'. His lack of army experience tends to
put the rest of his 'C.V.' into question.

Richard


Sean J Murphy

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Sep 8, 2007, 6:24:55 PM9/8/07
to

It does appear to be a fact that Shortt authored a booklet on the SAS in
the Osprey series. Here is what he himself is quoted as saying about the
work in 1997:

'The S.A.S. Regiment. I was asked to write this small book when
serving with "B" Sqn, 21 SAS. Permission was sought and received from
the SAS Regt Assoc.; of which I am a member then run by Major Dare
Newell (dec'd), by my Colonel "Leith-Barnes" representing SAS Group, by
the MoD P&PR machinery and finally by SBS at Poole. The original
manuscript; which I still have was cut down to a 5th of it's size. I
cornered many SAS/SBS veterans at the annual dinner to get their
versions of the early days, and even managed 3-4 sessions with David
Stirling (not then "Sir") ,draining his best malt. That is what the
book is about; the bones of the truth about the birth, growth and
development of the Regiment. In WW2, post WW2 with the Greeks, Belgians
and French. The campaigns that gave the SAS family little brothers
such as the Rhodesians, Australians and New Zealanders. It goes as
far as 1980 and "Princess Gate". I've refused to update it as I
received a thorough backstabbing from former colleagues - despite the
book being vetted, cleaned and cleared in all the required quarters.
Perhaps if I changed my name to McGrabb or de la Billionaire ???'
(http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/barracks/2911/b/spec05.html)

A definite claim then to have served with 21 SAS, which the Army Rumour
poster claims is false.

Sean Murphy

Sean J Murphy

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Sep 8, 2007, 6:31:14 PM9/8/07
to
barrassie wrote:

Two wrongs etc. Perhaps you could confirm the veracity of the claim that
the Baron of Castleshort is your 'bondsman' according to the ancient
Scottish tradition of 'manrent'
(http://home.earthlink.net/~rggsibiba/html/castleshort/castleshort.html).

Still very curious as to whether you are maintaining the Niadh Nask as
the Nasc Nia, or whatever.

Sean Murphy

Turenne

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Sep 8, 2007, 6:58:37 PM9/8/07
to

>despite the book being vetted, cleaned and cleared in all the required quarters.
>Perhaps if I changed my name to McGrabb or de la Billionaire ???'

An ironic comment, in view of the fact that he has changed his name
with the sole purpose of enriching himself.

I didn't know Charles McKerrell was 'The' McKerrell - I'm impressed!

Richard


glu...@wp.pl

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Sep 10, 2007, 2:26:56 PM9/10/07
to

One of the claims is "In 1990, he was honoured by the Polish
Government in exile with the award of Knight Commander of Polonia
Restituta (2nd division).. He holds the rank of Colonel with the
Polish Reserve Independent Brigade (Polska Niezalezna Brygada
Rezerwowa)."

The so-called PIRB is basically a self-styled and dress-up group that
was created by the self-styled President-in-Exile of Poland Juliusz
Nowina-Sokolnicki - the same one who heads up the soi-disant Order of
St. Stanislaus. He has in the past made numerous awards of 'Polish
orders' and awarded various 'military commissions', in his paper army,
etc. I can't comment on his British service claims - but I would take
his claims not with a grain but rather a barrel of salt. Sheesh.

http://www.angelfire.com/realm/StStanislas/PIRB.html
http://www.angelfire.com/realm/StStanislas/PIRBpic_6.html

George Lucki


KCMG

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Sep 11, 2007, 8:03:10 AM9/11/07
to

Thanks for the enlightenment, and direction to amusing photos. The
"General" Bailey McCune of Coll Earn looks like the type of character
to frequent chaps-only clubs.

Turenne

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Sep 11, 2007, 4:32:14 PM9/11/07
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> >http://www.angelfire.com/realm/StStanislas/PIRB.htmlhttp://www.angelf...

>
> > George Lucki
>
> Thanks for the enlightenment, and direction to amusing photos. The
> "General" Bailey McCune of Coll Earn looks like the type of character
> to frequent chaps-only clubs.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

We've talked about him before; he's a hoot!

Richard

Sean J Murphy

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Sep 15, 2007, 3:48:02 AM9/15/07
to

A more specific denial of SAS membership on the Army Rumour Service:

'Shortt was given access by the SAS Association to some of their
photographs and visited the 21 SAS/Artists' Rifles museum at Duke of
Yorks on several occasions, but that was about it. I would suggest that
this is part of a pattern with Mr Shortt: he amplifies any contact with
military units into full-on membership.'
(http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=8811/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=3375.html)

Sean Murphy

StephenP

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Oct 4, 2007, 2:14:15 PM10/4/07
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On Sep 7, 11:23 pm, Sean J Murphy <sjbmur...@SPAMOUTeircom.net> wrote:
>
> No reply yet from Ferns Diocese, but I will consider those other options
> you list.
>
> Sean Murphy

Any joy with the KSG hunt?

Yours aye

Stephen

barrassie

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Oct 5, 2007, 10:33:09 AM10/5/07
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On Sep 5, 7:54 am, StephenP <plow...@uk2.net> wrote:
> On 3 Sep, 02:20, Sean J Murphy <sjbmur...@SPAMOUTeircom.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > No sign of any James Shortt on the list, which appears to be dated 2007.
> > On the most recent version of his biography, he states specifically that
> > he is a member of the 'UK Association of Papal Knights having been

> > created a Knight Commander of St Gregory by Pope John Paul II in
> > recognition for his work in towards moving the Cold War to an end'
> > (http://ibabodyguards.com/castleshort.htm)
>
> > Sean Murphy
>
> I am not familiar with the RC dioceses in Ireland, so can someone
> identify within which one Kilmuckridge, Co. Wexford falls? A quick
> line to the Bishop might clarify the good baron's knightly status.
>
> Yours aye
>
> Stephen

All foreign knights including international Knights of Malta, Knights
of Hanover and others used the title Sir in the United Kingdom, in the
UK this ceased c 1830? Perhaps this did not apply to Canada!
I met up with some person in London trying to offer a Papal Order, I
could not understand how it could be offered to a person without some
very significant work for Church or State, but I think that some
rather gullible persons think they deserve such an honour and are
thereby caught!
Charles McK Hillhouse

Don Aitken

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Oct 5, 2007, 1:37:18 PM10/5/07
to
On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 07:33:09 -0700, barrassie
<mckerrello...@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On Sep 5, 7:54 am, StephenP <plow...@uk2.net> wrote:
>> On 3 Sep, 02:20, Sean J Murphy <sjbmur...@SPAMOUTeircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > No sign of any James Shortt on the list, which appears to be dated 2007.
>> > On the most recent version of his biography, he states specifically that
>> > he is a member of the 'UK Association of Papal Knights having been
>> > created a Knight Commander of St Gregory by Pope John Paul II in
>> > recognition for his work in towards moving the Cold War to an end'
>> > (http://ibabodyguards.com/castleshort.htm)
>>
>> > Sean Murphy
>>
>> I am not familiar with the RC dioceses in Ireland, so can someone
>> identify within which one Kilmuckridge, Co. Wexford falls? A quick
>> line to the Bishop might clarify the good baron's knightly status.
>>
>> Yours aye
>>
>> Stephen
>
>All foreign knights including international Knights of Malta, Knights
>of Hanover and others used the title Sir in the United Kingdom, in the
>UK this ceased c 1830? Perhaps this did not apply to Canada!

I think the Order of Hanover (aka Order of the Crown of Hanover, aka
Royal Guelphic Order) had a special status of its own, as being
conferred by the British sovereign, allbeit in a different capacity,
Indeed, its Hanoverian connection was incidental for its British
recipients; it was the usual form of knighthood conferred on British
military officers before the Order of the Bath (previously confined to
a small fixed number of recipients) was remodelled in 1815.

--
Don Aitken
Mail to the From: address is not read.
To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com"

Andrew Chaplin

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Oct 5, 2007, 7:24:36 PM10/5/07
to
"barrassie" <mckerrello...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1191594789.5...@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...

> On Sep 5, 7:54 am, StephenP <plow...@uk2.net> wrote:
>> On 3 Sep, 02:20, Sean J Murphy <sjbmur...@SPAMOUTeircom.net> wrote:
>>
>> > No sign of any James Shortt on the list, which appears to be dated 2007.
>> > On the most recent version of his biography, he states specifically that
>> > he is a member of the 'UK Association of Papal Knights having been
>> > created a Knight Commander of St Gregory by Pope John Paul II in
>> > recognition for his work in towards moving the Cold War to an end'
>> > (http://ibabodyguards.com/castleshort.htm)
>>
>>
>> I am not familiar with the RC dioceses in Ireland, so can someone
>> identify within which one Kilmuckridge, Co. Wexford falls? A quick
>> line to the Bishop might clarify the good baron's knightly status.
>
>
> All foreign knights including international Knights of Malta, Knights
> of Hanover and others used the title Sir in the United Kingdom, in the
> UK this ceased c 1830? Perhaps this did not apply to Canada!

Canada would have followed the form of either England or Scotland up to the
Nickle Resolution of 1919. I think the only knights who get any official
recognition these days are those who are members of the diplomatic corps where
the knighthood is included in their credentials. See p. 154 for the only "sir"
in the whole Canadian dip corps
(http://w01.international.gc.ca/Protocol/pdf/DrsBook_2007_08_eng.pdf).

Sean J Murphy

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Oct 6, 2007, 4:49:58 AM10/6/07
to

Nothing to report here at least. I did not really expect a reply from
Ferns in relation to the questioned St Gregory award, as this diocese is
recovering from one of the more shocking clerical abuse scandals, and in
general, the RC Church does not discuss problems with lay enquirers.

Sean Murphy

Sean J Murphy

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Oct 6, 2007, 4:58:55 AM10/6/07
to
barrassie wrote:

But the question under discussion is whether your 'bondsman' the 'Baron
of Castleshort' has one of the bogus St Gregory orders?

Sean Murphy

Sean J Murphy

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Oct 6, 2007, 5:41:55 AM10/6/07
to
I see that the following webpage is now headed with a logo indicating
that the International Bodyguard Association is celebrating its 50th
anniversary this year: http://www.ibanagreatlakes.com/castleshort.html

This would indicate that the content of the page is deemed to be
current. Still contained therein are the proposterous data relating to
the Barony of Castleshort, the indication of service with 'elite
military units' which the Army Rumour Service posters have challenged,
the connection with the Royal Galloglas Guard, the improbable claim to
have been 'created a Knight Commander of St Gregory by Pope John Paul II
in recognition for his work in towards moving the Cold War to an end',
the statement of membership of the 'Nasc Nia' and the association with
McKerrell of Hillhouse by virtue of being a 'bondsman of the Chief'. I
note again, as I did when threatened with Galloglas surveillance in 1999
in relation to my exposure of the Mac Carthy Mór hoax, the listed
accomplishments in martial arts, but have decided not to hire a
bodyguard just yet.

Sean Murphy
Irish Chiefswatch
http://homepage.eircom.net/%7Eseanjmurphy/chiefs/chiefswatch.htm

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