A while back I started a thread about a coat of arms on some Chinese Export porcelain plates that turned out to belong to Charles Alexander of Lorraine. I'm very grateful for the resulting helpful information, links, discussion and pointers that enabled me to continue my research, and I'd like to vet what I've compiled for accuracy with you all.
The synopsis for the plates has to be brief for what I need it for; here's what I have so far:
"Famille rose armorial plates from a service belonging to His Royal Highness Prince Charles-Alexandre Emanuel de Lorraine, (b XXXX, d 1780). Son of Duke Leopold I of Lorraine; brother of Holy Roman Emperor Francis Stephen I of Lorraine (who also held the titles of Duke of Lorraine, and Grand Duke of Tuscany); brother-in-law to Marie Theresia (Archduchess and later ruling Empress of Austria) and uncle to Austrian Emperors Joseph II and Leopold; uncle to Queen Marie-Antoinette of France. Awarded the Order of the Golden Fleece in 1729; appointed Lieutenant Governor General of the Austrian Netherlands in 1744; General of the Imperial Austrian troops and in 1761, Grandmaster of the Teutonic Order.
This rare pattern represents the historic alliance of the Austrian House of Hapsburg with the French House of Lorraine. A cup and saucer with this pattern are in the Chinese Pavillion's collection at the Royal Museum of Art and History in Belgium, and are featured on pages 28-29 in their publication "Porcelain armoriees du Pavillon Chinois" by Chantal Kozyreff and Henry Maertens de Noordhout, 1998. It is also illustrated in "Porcelaines Chinoises "Compagnies des Indies" décorées d'armoiries Belges", page 61. The porcelain service was ordered prior to 1761 when Charles Alexander changed his coat of arms, however it could have been ordered any time between 1745 and 1760. It's possible these plates may be some of the very rare ones imported through the Austrian Ostende Company which preceded the Swedish East India Company. While the AOC was officially abolished in 1731; it did not stop sending trade ships to China until well into the 1740s and may have kept the business up even later per written records of the AOC's factory in Bengala and shipping shipping information on which ships were actually anchored outside Canton.
The arms on these very thinly potted plates are assigned with the coronet of a Prince of the Holy Roman Empire, surrounded by the Golden Fleece and within a pavillon charged with the arms of Lorraine."
I don't know what SAR stands for an have not been able to find a reliable date of birth for Charles-Alexander. I know Francis Stephen had to cede the ducky of Lorraine prior to marrying Marie Theresia and acquired Tuscany at a later date; but if I have any of the titles or people listed inaccurately, I'd appreciate being corrected!
Thank you Anton...I've been trying to research the difference between a Ducal crown and a Royal crown proper. From what I can tell, the coat of arms depicted on the plates has a crown that represents the Holy Roman Empire, with the cross and orb on top, so wouldn't that mean that pattern had to be after Charles Alexander's brother Francis Stephen attained the HRE?
Or is the closed crown with the orb and cross representative of Leopold's changing his arms to show same when he resumed the use of the title of the King of Jerusalem in 1700? And that his sons CA and FS would use that crown in their coat of arms?
I've been learning as much as I can but this is all quite new to me as a field of study: Is the crown a ducal coronet, or a coronet of a prince of the HRE...?
In medio rec.heraldry aperuit Stella <stellad...@hotmail.com> os suum:
> Thank you Anton...I've been trying to research the difference between > a Ducal crown and a Royal crown proper. From what I can tell, the coat > of arms depicted on the plates has a crown that represents the Holy > Roman Empire, with the cross and orb on top, so wouldn't that mean > that pattern had to be after Charles Alexander's brother Francis > Stephen attained the HRE?
A ducal crown would be open (no arches); a royal crown would have 8 arches, of which 5 visible. What you have is the coronet of a prince of the Holy Roman Empire.
> Or is the closed crown with the orb and cross representative of > Leopold's changing his arms to show same when he resumed the use of > the title of the King of Jerusalem in 1700? And that his sons CA and > FS would use that crown in their coat of arms?
Only the duke would use the royal crown. Derek's evidence indicates that, probably from 1744 on, C-A used a royal crown, at the same time as he enjoyed the style of "Royal Highness". So this suggests the plate dates from before 1744 (but no earlier than 1729).
Thank you for explaining the components of the crowns; I've been searching for images of them online since I don't have any heraldry books myself. (Shocked gasp from the audience!) So the fur lining would be upturned on the rim for both an Archducal crown and the HRE crown?
One loose end in this theory nags at me...you had posted a while back about a book:
"Inventaire des archives de la maison de Charles de Lorraine / par André Vanrie. Bruxelles : Archives générales du Royaume, 1981.
The only entry for "China porcelain" in the index is for a receipt for an order of porcelain from India and China, from the 1760s."
Any info on when in the 1760s? 1760, or, say, 1768? As hard-paste porcelain was more readily available in Europe at that time, why would his household still order porcelain from China, especially with Derek's note of C-A owning a porcelain factory in Tervuren? If to commemorate his changing his arms in light of the Teutonic order, why not have Meissen make the service, or some local company? Puzzling to me.
I've tried contacting the Royal Museum of Art and History in Belgium, with the Chinese Pavillion that houses the cup and saucer that matches the pattern on my plates; however despite three separate emails they have never responded. Guess I'll try calling them from America. Also it will be interesting to contact the museum at the former palace of C-A and see what other porcelain examples they have from C-A's household, unless it was all completely sold at auction. That museum is a great lead for further research, with splendid info from there already!
On a porcelain-related historical note it's exciting to move the date of the plates earlier to where they were very likely to have been shipped on the Austrian Ostende Company...
What is the date of birth for C-A? I've come across some online that would make him Francis' older brother, and that can't be right, can it?
Charles Alexander Emanuel, Stattholder of the Austrian Netherlands, *Lunéville 12.12.1712, +Tervueren 4.7.1780; m.Vienna 7.1.1744 Archdss Maria Anna of Austria (*14.9.1718 +16.12.1744) -- François R. Velde ve...@nospam.org (replace by "heraldica") Heraldica Web Site: http://www.heraldica.org/
I unfortunately don't have the time to undertake the research myself, but these are a few pointers :
- The best reference book on the house of Lorraine is : Georges POULL, La Maison ducale de Lorraine, Presses universitaires de Nancy, Nancy (France), September 1991, 624 pages, ISBN : 2-84480-517-0. I do not have a copy, so I cannot check about C-A.
I am sure any of the 2 museums (Musée lorrain, and Château de Lunéville) could be interested in acquiring this piece. It is a very unusual depiction of the arms of Lorraine (crown and mantling particularly).
> In medio rec.heraldry aperuit Stella <stellad...@hotmail.com> os suum: > > What is the date of birth for C-A? I've come across some online that > > would make him Francis' older brother, and that can't be right, can > > it?
> Charles Alexander Emanuel, Stattholder of the Austrian Netherlands, *Lunéville > 12.12.1712, +Tervueren 4.7.1780; m.Vienna 7.1.1744 Archdss Maria Anna of Austria > (*14.9.1718 +16.12.1744)
Great links to the museums, Marc, thank you so much. I will have a friend (who handles the French language far better than I, but then who doesn't?) write some letters to them very soon. Your time in collecting the info and posting it is much appreciated.
I contacted David and Angela Howard, the authors of the Chinese Armorial Porcelain Volume 1 and Vol II, the "bible" for Chinese armorial porcelain collectors. The volumes cover (mainly English) coat of arm patterns on porcelain and they've studied and written on the subject for a few decades now. Still, my money's on you folks, so to speak! :-)
This morning, Angela Howard emailed me confirming the earlier date of the porcelain that I have, but they have a very different take on who the pattern belongs to. They're insisting it's a ducal crown and that the pattern is that of a Duke of Lorraine. I think I need to travel to Europe and get copies of illustrations showing Francis and Charles-Alexander's known coats of arms through the 1729 to 1744 period, or someone else's coat of arms showing a coronet of a prince of the HRE for comparison.
***(From the Howards) Charles VI of Lorraine was Holy Roman Emperor from 1711-40. At his death in 1740 his son, Francis I, became Duke of Lorraine - his principal title until 1745. (The title of HRE was at that time held by a distant cousin, Charles VII, Elector of Bavaria - quite different arms - who died in 1745.)
Francis I had married Maria Theresa of Austria and in 1745 became Holy Roman Emperor (he was also a Knight of the Golden Fleece and of St. Esprit - orders are shown on the porcelain).
At some date after 1745 (although not immediately) he relinquished his title as Duke of Lorraine to his brother Charles.
The date of the service illustrated in the Brussels catalogue should be c.1740 and has the arms of the Duke of Lorraine beneath a ducal cap - NOT the Holy Roman Emperor. [I have written to numerous people over the last 15 years that, from the style of the porcelain, the date is NOT after 1745. It is possible to demonstrate a number of services of this style to c.1735-45.]
While we agree that the service is definitely before 1745 - I'm not sure we do about the owner!
a) Before 1740 the Lorraine title was merged with that of the Holy Roman Emperor - Charles VI (arms different).
b) After 1745 the Lorraine title was again merged with that of the HRE (arms different).
c) From 1740-45 Francis was Duke of Lorraine - not his brother Charles.
d) Later Charles was Duke of Lorraine BUT the porcelain would have been quite different in style by then, in my opinion.
e) It is, of course, possible that Charles used the arms of the Duke of Lorraine before he was entitled to, but I see no reason to assume that.
> In medio rec.heraldry aperuit Stella <stellad...@hotmail.com> os suum: > > Thank you Anton...I've been trying to research the difference between > > a Ducal crown and a Royal crown proper. From what I can tell, the coat > > of arms depicted on the plates has a crown that represents the Holy > > Roman Empire, with the cross and orb on top, so wouldn't that mean > > that pattern had to be after Charles Alexander's brother Francis > > Stephen attained the HRE?
> A ducal crown would be open (no arches); a royal crown would have 8 arches, > of which 5 visible. What you have is the coronet of a prince of the Holy > Roman Empire.
> > Or is the closed crown with the orb and cross representative of > > Leopold's changing his arms to show same when he resumed the use of > > the title of the King of Jerusalem in 1700? And that his sons CA and > > FS would use that crown in their coat of arms?
> Only the duke would use the royal crown. Derek's evidence indicates that, > probably from 1744 on, C-A used a royal crown, at the same time as he enjoyed > the style of "Royal Highness". So this suggests the plate dates from > before 1744 (but no earlier than 1729).
> Dear Francois and List- > I contacted David and Angela Howard, the authors of the Chinese > Armorial Porcelain Volume 1 and Vol II, the "bible" for Chinese > armorial porcelain collectors. The volumes cover (mainly English) coat > of arm patterns on porcelain and they've studied and written on the > subject for a few decades now. Still, my money's on you folks, so to > speak! :-) > This morning, Angela Howard emailed me confirming the earlier date of > the porcelain that I have, but they have a very different take on who > the pattern belongs to. They're insisting it's a ducal crown and that > the pattern is that of a Duke of Lorraine. I think I need to travel to > Europe and get copies of illustrations showing Francis and > Charles-Alexander's known coats of arms through the 1729 to 1744 > period, or someone else's coat of arms showing a coronet of a prince > of the HRE for comparison. > ***(From the Howards) > Charles VI of Lorraine was Holy Roman Emperor from 1711-40. At his > death in 1740 his son, Francis I, became Duke of Lorraine - his > principal title until 1745. (The title of HRE was at that time held > by a distant cousin, Charles VII, Elector of Bavaria - quite different > arms - who died in 1745.)
I'm sorry, but this is utter nonsense. Francis I was not the son of Charles VI, but his son-in-law. He did not become duke of Lorraine in 1740, but in 1729 (as Francis III of Lorraine) at the death of his father and predecessor Leopold. and he had *ceased* to be duke of Lorraine in 1737.
> Francis I had married Maria Theresa of Austria and in 1745 became Holy > Roman Emperor (he was also a Knight of the Golden Fleece and of St. > Esprit - orders are shown on the porcelain).
No, the Saint-Esprit does not appear on the porcelain and, no, he was not a knight of the Saint-Esprit.
> At some date after 1745 (although not immediately) he relinquished his > title as Duke of Lorraine to his brother Charles.
No, he did not. His brother was never duke of Lorraine. The duchy of Lorraine went in 1737 to Stanislas, and at his death in 1766 Lorraine reverted to France.
> The date of the service illustrated in the Brussels catalogue should > be > c.1740 and has the arms of the Duke of Lorraine beneath a ducal cap - > NOT the Holy Roman Emperor.
Your correspondent has confused the coronet of PRINCE of the Holy Roman Empire with that of Holy Roman Emperor. No one says that the crown on the plate is the latter, only the former.
A prince of the Holy Roman Empire is a rank within the Empire; there were dozens of such princes.
> [I have written to numerous people over > the last 15 years that, from the style of the porcelain, the date is > NOT after 1745. It is possible to demonstrate a number of services of > this style to c.1735-45.] > While we agree that the service is definitely before 1745 - I'm not > sure we > do about the owner! > a) Before 1740 the Lorraine title was merged with that of the Holy > Roman > Emperor - Charles VI (arms different).
No, no, no, no, completely false. Lorraine was an independent duchy (although nominally part of the Holy Roman Empire, like other states). In 1737 it was ceded by its last holder, Francis, to the deposed king of Poland Stanislas (and father-in-law of the king of France), while Francis received the grand-duchy of Tuscany in compensation. He retained the title of duke of Lorraine and the coat of arms of Lorraine (as did his descendants) as mark of his lineage.
The arms on your plate cannot be those of Francis I after 1737, because after he became grand-duke of Tuscany, he added a quarter with the arms of Medici; he retained that quarter even after his election as Emperor in 1745: see http://www.heraldica.org/topics/national/armory18/emperor.jpg
They cannot be the arms of Francis I before 1737, because before that date he used (as duke of Lorraine) a closed crown with 8 arches, 5 visible.
The arms are those of Lorraine, however, so they must be a close relative of the duke of Lorraine, and there is only one, Charles-Alexandre.
Further leads on C-A de Lorraine. An article in _Apollo_ Dec. 1987 (vol. 126, no 310, pp. 432-34) by Robert Oresko describes three exhibits held in Belgium in 1987, as part of Europalia 1987, on Charles-Alexandre de Lorraine. the most extensive one was in his palace in Brussels; it was organized by Claudine Lemaire (affiliation unknown). It had a lot of porcelain, some of it from the Bundesmobilierverwaltung (of Austria, I presume) which owns a lot of objects from C-A de Lorraine, because he made emperor Joseph II his univeral heir. Another exhibit was held at the Cultureel Centrum van de Vlaamse Gemeenschap Alden Biesen, in Bilzen, and was curated by Luc Duerloo; it centered more on his political career and his role as grand-master of the Teutonic order. A third, smaller one, was in the castle of Mariemont.
