think about a 22 for self defense?? Read this
tatdrew
> ...
One in 1979 was killed in his barracks dayroom on Ft Stewart Georgia
over an argument about which television station to watch.
Another was killed in a parking lot during a robbery, mid 1980's
The last was killed by an intoxicated 17 year old that was pissing on
the window of his store. He walked outside to chase the kid away and the
kid shot him. All this sounds crazy and I agree. Even more so for the
last friend Phil since he had a son and daughter who graduated
highschool these last few years. My point on the post was not to draw
attention to them but all these were big men and with everyone claming
that the 22 rimfire is not dangerous is crazy in itself. Do you think
its possible that one of the newbe gun owners reading this NG may
believe that they could play a John Wayne some day and take a Saturday
Night Special frome someone since its not a deadly round Thanks for your
time. Drew
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You can learn about rec.guns at http://doubletap.cs.umd.edu/rec.guns
frank...@my-deja.com
themselves from criminals. I am always suprised of cases where people
used a .22 to protect themselves and the criminals ends up dead.
In one case, an older gentleman shot a violent burgular once and the
guy kept coming at him. He shot again and the guy died. Any round is
dangerous and every gun should be treated as a loaded gun.
Chute the Mall
the .22 than by any other caliber.
Of course, they might not die for hours, meanwhile seeking aid or causing
trouble.
Louis J.M
# American Guardian has their monthly column about gun owners protecting
# themselves from criminals. I am always suprised of cases where people
# used a .22 to protect themselves and the criminals ends up dead.
#
# In one case, an older gentleman shot a violent burgular once and the
# guy kept coming at him. He shot again and the guy died. Any round is
# dangerous and every gun should be treated as a loaded gun.
It's simple (common) sense, the standard 40 grain 22.lr can reach the
heart and head and most (correct me if I'm wrong) vital organs.
.-~~-.____ Louis J.M
/ | ' \
( ) O _ E-Mail: Loui...@Earthlink.net
\_/-, ,----' // WWW : Coming Soon!
==== ___// ----------------------------------------------------
/ \-'~; /~~~(O) "I hate a black man who acts like a white man. But
/ __/~| __/ | what's worse is a black man who acts like a white
==(______| (_________| woman." - Louis Farrakahn
eric
but their death would be a rather slow one, far from the instant
inconpasatation which is needed for adequate self defense.
Can a .22 be used to create a tragedy? - yes.
Is it a good choice for self defense? - no.
Self defense - .40 or .45 cal. ( my opinion )
Eric
David Steuber
' Do you think
' its possible that one of the newbe gun owners reading this NG may
' believe that they could play a John Wayne some day and take a Saturday
' Night Special frome someone since its not a deadly round Thanks for your
' time. Drew
I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of any gun, period. However,
one tends to apply a different standard when one is on the right end
of the gun and facing a malign being armed with a gun.
The mythical one shot stop is something we all want in a defense gun.
Barring that, the highest probability of a quick stop is the goal. I
carry the biggest gun I am comfortable with. On some days, that is a
..44 Magnum. Everyday, it is a .38 Spl. Yes, that means I sometimes
carry two guns.
--
David Steuber | "Are you now, or have you ever been, a member
NRA Member | of the NRA?" --- HUAC, 2004
Happiness is a SAAB Gripen <http://www.gripen.saab.se/> in the
garage, an FN-FAL in the safe, and an HK P7M8 on the hip.
9m...@my-deja.com
that you cannot kill someone with one. Hell, you can kill someone with
a ballpoint pen. But in a self-defense situation, your intention is
not necessarily to kill your assailant, your intention is to instantly
render him incapable of attacking you. A .22 can't be depended upon to
accomplish this, even if your assailant bleeds to death some time
later. You should absolutely, positively not carry anything smaller
than a .380 as a primary arm for self-defense. Period.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
M & K
in his hands. He was trying to qualify with a tiny Beretta .22 semi-auto.
I forget the model, but his concern was that he couldn't rack the slide on
anything larger. The instructor tried talking him into using a .38 revolver
but he would have no part of it--he was terrified of "kick."
The man didn't qualify (he could barely hit a silhouette target out of 100
shots). I also had the misfortune of standing next to him at the range
where he pointed the gun at me several times (he got the little semi jammed
from limp-wristing and would then swing it around to show me!). He even put
one palm in front of the barrel (repeatedly) while trying to rack the slide.
I also had to yell at him several times: "keep your finger off the trigger!"
At the end of the day, I had the dubious honor of telling him he should
reconsider gun ownership. I believe (i.e., hope) he didn't get a
certificate of safety.
My point? He couldn't handle anything larger than a .22 and would be MUCH
safer going without.
<9m...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8numdm$kqn$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu...
> ...
Mr Double
:>In my firearms safety group there was an obese man who has slight paralysis
:>in his hands.
<snipshot>
:> I also had the misfortune of standing next to him at the range
:>where he pointed the gun at me several times (he got the little semi jammed
:>from limp-wristing and would then swing it around to show me!). He even put
:>one palm in front of the barrel (repeatedly) while trying to rack the slide.
:>I also had to yell at him several times: "keep your finger off the trigger!"
<snipshot>
hi M & K,
Great story...reminds me of one a long time ago.
When I was a kid, my father-in-law took me hunting everywhere, got me way more interested in guns
(maintenance, cleaning, safety, reloading, etc.) I'll never forget the day we were quail hunting
with shotguns. He was crossing a fence line with his back to me, and I was about 10' behind him.
He said over his shoulder, "Tom, is that shotgun pointed at my back ?"
Me: "Uh, yes sir..."
He replied, "Is the safety off ?"
I checked, and yep it was, damn !...Me: "Ah, yes sir, but...." My finger was very close to, if not
on, the trigger too.
I'll never forget that day, and am now reminded at how many people receive no training. Like my
casual shooting friends who laugh and talk while waving the gun around everywhere without thinking.
Finger on trigger, safety off, loaded....scarey. Less and less fathers(parents) are training their
children about firearms safety.
Like the individual you met above, many otherwise healthy yet uneducated people are equally
firearms-handicapped.
Thanks,
TOM
H&K a-knut
Franko
with a 1911 .45 He told me that his carry gun is a .22 magnum
Grendel w/ 30 round clip.
On 21 Aug 2000 09:55:50 -0400, tatdrew <tat...@infoave.net> wrote:
> ...
Mark Sweany
#I met a guy at my gun club who's an expert target shooter (one-handed)
#with a 1911 .45 He told me that his carry gun is a .22 magnum
#Grendel w/ 30 round clip.
Years ago a guy wrote in to Bill Jordan saying he had a .22 Colt
Woodsman that he was quite proficient with, but was thinking about
getting something larger, like a .44 mag, for home defense. Bill's
response was that a solid hit with a .22 was always preferable to a loud
miss with a .44, and that anyone who takes a solid hit from a .22 isn't
going to be thinking about anything but getting immediate medical
attention.
I know I certainly wouldn't want to be shot with one. <g>
-------
Mark S.
Bob Rayburn
Mark Sweany <msw...@uswest.net> wrote:##I met a guy at my gun club who's an expert target shooter (one-handed)
##with a 1911 .45 He told me that his carry gun is a .22 magnum
##Grendel w/ 30 round clip.
#
#Years ago a guy wrote in to Bill Jordan saying he had a .22 Colt
#Woodsman that he was quite proficient with, but was thinking about
#getting something larger, like a .44 mag, for home defense. Bill's
#response was that a solid hit with a .22 was always preferable to a loud
#miss with a .44, and that anyone who takes a solid hit from a .22 isn't
#going to be thinking about anything but getting immediate medical
#attention.
#
#I know I certainly wouldn't want to be shot with one. <g>
My "nightstand gun" is a Colt Woodsman. I practice with it
regularly so that it seems to point instinctively. I think
I could get the better part of 10 rounds into a threatening
intruder, if the first round didn't have the desired effect.
Bob Rayburn
Colt Woodsman Collector (and shooter)
http://www.colt22.com
Mulroymedia
My "nightstand gun" is a Colt Woodsman. I practice with it
regularly so that it seems to point instinctively. I think
I could get the better part of 10 rounds into a threatening
intruder, if the first round didn't have the desired effect.
#>>>>>>>>>
It sure isn't a perfect choice, but most shooters know with a .22 you will
empty the gun probably. They do point well and with such low recoil accuracy
seems to shine for such guns which sure helps.
bussard
Mike
Richard Parker
All valid points indeed. During summer months, I like to carry my Beretta
Minx .22 short w/ 4" barrel. Lord knows, I've practiced with it enough that
it's like a part of me. Sure beats a knife or a blackjack.
Rich
Declare Independence! Subscribe to The American Patriot's UNIMOG Owner's
Group. AmPatUnimo...@topica.com
Lorne D. Gilsig
That 22 short is going to be very useful when being attacked by rodents and
insects. If you have to use it on a person however I would suggest throwing it
at them and running like hell.
Lorne D. Gilsig
Richard Parker wrote:
> ...
Nick Hull
<LGi...@mediaone.net> wrote:
# Richard,
#
# That 22 short is going to be very useful when being attacked by rodents and
# insects. If you have to use it on a person however I would suggest
throwing it
# at them and running like hell.
#
A 22 short is a really weak cartridge, but how many times have you been
shot with one? Are you volunteering to get shot with ONE 22 short to
prove your point? I'll volunteer to be the target for someone throwing a
small pistop at me.
--
Committees of Correspondence Web page:
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/
- free men own guns, slaves don't
kilib...@my-deja.com
Modern .22 shorts produce velocities equal to the .22LR when fired from
short barrels...of course the standard bullet weight is only 29gr
compared to the LR's 32-40gr.
For such small guns, the much-maligned .25ACP is actually the better
choice. IT achieves the same velocities as the .22s, though it throws
50gr FULLY JACKETED bullets that tend to penetrate better. Also,
the .25ACP round was INTENDED for small autos, and is constructed just
like its big brother the .45ACP...meaning, bullet seated inside case,
fully-jacketed, semi-rimmed case...all the things that tend to promote
reliable feeding, over the outside lubricated, heel-crimped, lead,
or "copper coated", RIMMED, rimfire .22 of any denomination.
Though these guns aren't known for power, they CAN and do penetrate
quite readily to "the vitals", and a central nervous system hit is just
as lethal from a .22/.25 as anything else.
LOTS of people DIE from being shot with small handguns such as
these...as a Critical Care and Emergency Dept Registered Nurse, I've
had the "luxury" of SEEING many different bullet wounds from all the
popular calibers. I've SEEN a person shot THROUGH the face with
a .38spl--bullet exited below the base of the skull, and he walked in
totally aware...with NO serious injury--the bullet simply MISSED
anything vital, though being a round-nose, made it glance off the base
of the cranial vault, deflect downward and exit right of the vertebral
column.
I've also seen people hit MANY times with 9mm hollowpoints--shot clean
through--nice little "plugs" torn out on exit, about the size of a
quarter, yet THEY TOO walked in the door on their own power with a
collapsed lung and nothing more severe.
I've seen hits from the "mighty" .45ACP using "ball" ammo, enter, hit
bone, make a 90deg turn and come to rest without doing any major
damage, and THAT person also "walked in the door".
I've ALSO see someone hit three times in the stomach--what you would
THINK is the LEAST vital spot--hit with a "piddling .22LR", yet
was "shocked" sufficiently that he hit the floor (of the house he had
broken down the door too), UNCONSCIOUS, unable to "brace" himself and
so hit FACE FIRST, knocking out all his front teeth. Being hit in the
abdomen is NOT the "best place" by any means--he required a 12"
vertical incision midline (which had to be left OPEN to help combat
infection) to perform an exploratory laparotomy to find all the holes
made by these three, tiny, "tumbling" bullets, as well as a colon
resection resulting in a colostomy. He was MESSED UP...yeah, he was
alive--so are a LOT of people hit by much larger rounds, but he STOPPED
trying to kill the person who shot him!
By the way, anybody remember John Hinkley? HE "pasted" a whole GROUP
of people using two, small, SHORT-barreled .22 revolvers! They ALL
went down... and when you view the video next time, NOTE the "impact"
effect on the Secret Service Agent in the background when he took ONE
in the stomach...didn't look to me like he just "took it"
without "notice". I didn't see James Brady leap up and "shrug off" the
one he took in the head, just as nobody else who was hit felt any
overpowering "urge" to jump up...
Don't sell the tiny .22 "short"..in ANY form. It's been used to kill
everything from mice to Grizzly Bear (that I KNOW of), and is one of
those rounds that seems to have more "impact" than merely reading the
ballistics tables would support. The "key" to the .22 in a short
barrel is SOLID bullets...going as fast as possible. This gives the
greatest penetration potential, and those tiny bullets WILL "tumble"
when they hit only flesh.
I've carried dozens of larger guns for protection, but the ONE gun I've
had for many years, and is ALWAYS "in my pocket", is a 5-shot North
American Arms .22MAG "mini-revolver" with a 1 5/8" barrel. I keep it
stoked with fully JACKETED 40gr rounds. It weighs a hefty 6oz
unloaded, and even in a flimsy pocket, is right at home. It's not
designed, nor intended to knock down steel chickens at 25m, but at
arm's length ranges, where some goon might one day be if trying to
assault or rob me, it has no trouble. I prefer it because it requires
NO special "rig" to carry, and can be carried in the pocket of a pair
of gym shorts without anyone ever suspecting.
I DO consider it superior to a small auto--mainly because it's so much
more compact--hard to believe I know, but also because it's all
stainless steel, TOTALLY safe since it's designed to be carried hammer
down in a little safety notch between the chambers, yet instanly
capable of being cocked--and it's DESIGNED well for this purpose.
BEING a single-action revolver, there is no potential for a jam (as
with autos), or any internal lock-work "binding" as can happen with DA
revolvers.
Sure, if I KNEW, or had a high suspicion I'd encounter trouble, I would
certainly choose a larger gun... though any handgun is a "toy" compared
to a 12ga loaded with slugs. Also, the "novelty" of "setting up" a
concealment rig everytime one leaves the house gets old in a hurry, and
all those who are toting full-sized guns under "sports vests" when it's
110deg during the summer, might as well KNOW that they aren't fooling
anyone--neither are the ones using "hide in plain sight" systems such
as fanny packs. If you are going somewhere lots of others are wearing
fanny packs, fine, but just strolling around? Only the dweebs
won't "suspect" you are carrying.
You can get these mini-revolvers in .22LR and .22short, though those
are truly TINY, and I've found the larger gip of the .22mag fits my
hand well, and makes operation positive.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
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