Some Handloads that make the German Luger actually work.

[browningh...@yahoo.com]

Here are some helpful hints on making the finicky German Luger
actually work. I have shot quite a few Lugers over the years and one
thing the Lugers had in common that I have shot is that they are very
particular about what ammunition you feed them. Although one may
occasionally find a factory brand of ammo that will work somewhat
reliably in them it is more the exception than the rule , at least
this has been my experience with the various Lugers I have shot.

First off if you ever read any article from "Average Joe Gun Writer"
telling you that you have to load a Luger hot to make it work it is
best to read no further and simply tear up the article in little
pieces and send it to him. This "Joe Gun Writer Myth" has been around
since ever I can remember and it is usually printed by gun writers who
never touched off a round in any Luger. More Lugers have been
prematurely worn out and even suffered broken parts because of this
"idiotic Joe Gun Writer advice". YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LOAD LUGERS HOT
TO GET THEM TO WORK.

When loading jacketed bullets it has been by experience that the
heavier 125 grain bullets seem to work better than the lighter 115
grain bullets. Fist off the bullet needs to be full metal jacketed or
if it is an expanding bullet it needs to have the same shape as a full
metal jacketed bullet. Remington years ago designed a hollow point
bullet that was the same shape as the traditional full metal jacketed
round and I bought quite a few of them years ago. I have not checked
recently to see even if they are still being made. The heavier
bullets in the 124 grain weight most of the time will also have more
bearing surface than the lighter 115 grain bullets allowing you to
seat the bullet out farther in the case that is VERY CRITICAL IN
GETTING THE LUGER TO FEED WITHOUT JAMMING.

Now assuming your clip (magazine) is not worn out in the locking
notch that will let the clip drop down to low or that the clip does
not have a worn out spring and also assuming that the extractor and
ejector and mainspring are in good shape we can proceed to the next
step and that is how much and what kind of powder to use and how far
out to seat the bullet.

A good powder that approximates the original burning rate of the old
German Ammunition is Alliant's Unique (Hercules). START OUT WITH 4.5
GRAINS OF UNIQUE and this should do the trick in most Lugers. If the
toggle is not coming back all the way you can slowly work up a tenth
of a grain at a time to about 5 grains of Unique. Remember the less
powder you use the more money you save and also the less wear and tear
you put on the Luger mechanism. The 9x19 has plenty of penetration
and velocity so you do not need to go nuts and try to make a magnum
out of it.

Next and very critical is the overall length of the loaded round.
You will have to experiment by loading FROM 1.170 OVER ALL LENGTH
WITH BULLET TO 1.180. Usually the longer you seat the bullet out the
more reliable most Lugers work. Please be aware that the long
seatings are actually over factory over all length settings which will
with the 1.180 length only let you put 7 rounds in the magazine
instead of 8 rounds but this is of little concern if you can get your
Luger to work reliably.

Well how about cast bullets, will they work in the Luger? The answer
is both yes and no. One of the oldest and most reliable cast bullets
is the Lyman 356402 which was specifically designed for use in German
Lugers. Depending on your metal mix it will drop from the mold at
around 121 grains give or take a little either way in weight. This
is a conical style bullet and as it has very little drag on the feed
ramp and a very long pointed nose which feeds very well indeed in the
Luger. It can be sized from .355 to .356 to give reliable feeding.
Be aware that some brass is thicker than others and some Luger
chambers are smaller than others so a .356 diameter might cause some
jams in some Lugers. Its best to take the barrel off your Luger and
drop a loaded round in the barrel to see how loose a fit you have. If
it is to tight it probably will cause you jams.

I generally use a tapered seating die not a crimp type die.

ONE VERY IMPORTANT POINT IN LOADING CAST BULLETS IN THE LUGER IS WHAT
KIND OF LUBE YOU USE.. Sticky lubes like alox 50/50 will jam a Luger
up tight in as little as 8 shots. The sticky lube will be blown out
of the chamber with burnt powder making a sticky mess that will jam
your gun up right quick. I solved this problem by using RED ROOSTER
RIFLE LUBE. This is a hard synthetic lube and you will need to use a
heater on your lube sizer to soften it up so it will flow through the
lube sizer. You can use a heater behind your lube sizer or buy one of
the commercial warming plates. They are not that expensive. Do not
play "Joe Six Pack" and fasten your lubricator to a plate and then set
Ma-Ma's clothing iron on it as ONE NUT I KNOW BURNED DOWN HIS HOUSE by
trying to go super cheapie and not do things right and safely. You
know the old saying "Penny wise and pound foolish" can be applied to
more than one Yo-Yo gun owner I have known in the past.

Again start out with 4.5 grains of Unique powder and if it functions
the toggle you are in business. Work up slowly to 5 grains if the
toggle is not coming back all the way.

Remember the :Luger even with proper ammo is generally about a 50
round gun before they get dirty and start to jam up so this is about
the best you can expect. Having say 2 or 3 jams a box (50 rounds) is
again normal with the Lugers I have owned and shot.

One thing you may want to do is have a professional trigger job done
on your Luger as many have such bad trigger pulls it will prevent you
from getting any kind of decent group without a lighter and crisper
trigger pull.

The other bugaboo is the terrible sights found on Lugers but altering
the gun by putting target sights on it will destroy any collector
value in it. I have a Luger I picked up that was modified way back in
the 1930's by a gunsmith that simply filed as 1/8 inch square notch in
the rear sight and then took the front sight and added weld to it to
increase the thickness to match the rear sight and then filed an
undercut contour to it and then blued it. Now I do not recommend you
do this to any collector grade Luger as you will destroy about 90 per
cent of its value but there are old modified (Mr .Bubba and Joe six
pack modified guns) out there that are mis-matched rebuilds that have
already been screwed up one way or another and some times have been
re- blued because of old rusting damage. This is what my now target
Luger once was, as it was re-blued and was not totally matching.
Again all this was done back in the 1930's when Lugers were more
common and sold for dirt cheap prices. I would not consider doing
this to any collector grade Luger today.

With my target grade trigger and nice target style sights shooting 1
inch groups with cast bullets at 25 yards is very easy. My Luger is
one of the most accurate 9mm hand guns I have ever owned.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Learn about rec.guns at http://www.recguns.net
Win a one-of-a-kind Fulton Armory AR-15 tactical rifle while defending
liberty in a front-line state. MPFO raffle details at http://www.myguns.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

[chasw]

Good post, thanks. I once owned a really nice 1938 S/42 model, bought it in
Germany for $55 long ago. First thing I found out was ordinary WW ammo
would not reliably cycle the action. Maybe you could recommend a
pistolsmith or two that has done good work for you. - CW

[browningh...@yahoo.com]

On Apr 3, 10:39 pm, "chasw" <chas...@comcast.net> wrote:
# Good post, thanks. I once owned a really nice 1938 S/42 model, bought it in
# Germany for $55 long ago. First thing I found out was ordinary WW ammo
# would not reliably cycle the action. Maybe you could recommend a
# pistolsmith or two that has done good work for you. - CW
#

I wish I could recommend a pistol smith but all mine are now dead.
The last one died last year. Nothing was wrong with him, the doctors
just wanted to take a look at his liver and they killed him.

There was an article on how to do your own trigger job in the May 1974
Shooting Times. Perhaps you could find a copy at the Library or on E-
Bay. I do not have mine anymore. If you do the job I would first buy
spare parts and experiment on them before doing any alterations on the
original parts.

[samu...@comcast.net]

My Luger was short cycling: that is, the toggle was not going back far
enough to pick up the next round. Fire one shot, then just a click
for the next trigger pull. Yes, I tried some +P ammo and broke the
tiny spring under the takedown lever. What a headache to get the
lever back in over a new spring. I had also replaced the mag springs
with stronger ones but this had not helped. Finally I cut one loop
off the main spring: problem solved. The pistol works just fine with
cheap Blazer ammo from Academy Sports. Other people may have
different problems requiring different solutions. By the way, I had
the same problem with an Automag .22 mag pistol and the same solution
worked for it. Plus, I found that some .22 mag ammo was too weak to
cycle the slide.

Drakejake

[browningh...@yahoo.com]

On Apr 9, 6:52 pm, samur...@comcast.net wrote:
# My Luger was short cycling: that is, the toggle was not going back far
# enough to pick up the next round. Fire one shot, then just a click
# for the next trigger pull. Yes, I tried some +P ammo and broke the
# tiny spring under the takedown lever. What a headache to get the
# lever back in over a new spring. I had also replaced the mag springs
# with stronger ones but this had not helped. Finally I cut one loop
# off the main spring: problem solved. The pistol works just fine with
# cheap Blazer ammo from Academy Sports. Other people may have
# different problems requiring different solutions. By the way, I had
# the same problem with an Automag .22 mag pistol and the same solution
# worked for it. Plus, I found that some .22 mag ammo was too weak to
# cycle the slide.
#
# Drakejake
#

If it happened with two different guns it is highly likely you are
limp wristing the guns when you shoot them. This acts as a shock
absorber causing short cycling and yes cutting springs would sometimes
cure the problem but also put more wear and tear on the gun.

[zxcvbob]

browningh...@yahoo.com wrote:
# On Apr 9, 6:52 pm, samur...@comcast.net wrote:
# # My Luger was short cycling: that is, the toggle was not going back far
# # enough to pick up the next round. Fire one shot, then just a click
# # for the next trigger pull. Yes, I tried some +P ammo and broke the
# # tiny spring under the takedown lever. What a headache to get the
# # lever back in over a new spring. I had also replaced the mag springs
# # with stronger ones but this had not helped. Finally I cut one loop
# # off the main spring: problem solved. The pistol works just fine with
# # cheap Blazer ammo from Academy Sports. Other people may have
# # different problems requiring different solutions. By the way, I had
# # the same problem with an Automag .22 mag pistol and the same solution
# # worked for it. Plus, I found that some .22 mag ammo was too weak to
# # cycle the slide.
# #
# # Drakejake
# #

I would try normal pressure loads with unusually fast powder (Bullseye,
Red Dot, Clays, Titegroup) and with unusually slow powders (Blue Dot and
#7), with 115, 125, and 147 grain bullets and see which combination
works best. I suspect the slow powder will work better because the
recoil will be a longer duration impulse. I have no idea whether it'll
like the light or heavy bullets better.

Bob

[samu...@comcast.net]

Browninghighpower,

I was not limp-wristing. My grip is firm and my arms are straight to
avoid this problem. Both of these pistols are known for having
problems. I have noticed no wear resulting from my modification. I
shoot .45 and .40 with no problem.

Drakejake

[samu...@comcast.net]

Browninghighpower,

I have shot dozens of semi-automatic pistols and have had this problem
only with these two. I have two Para Ordnance .45s, a number of
Rugers, Star PDs, Astras, Makarovs, CZ-52s, Beretta Tomcat, Kel-Tecs
in three calibres, etc., and have not had similar problems with any
of these.

Drakejake

[200...@gmail.com]

how about 147gn bullets that ought to pop the bolt back hard enough
funny my friends works pretty good just with the light 115 it fails to
lock the bolt back sometimes

i am using high quality mec-gar mags