revolver vs semi auto pistol
vito
again over the past years, but I had the following thoughts:
I just purchased my first revolver, a S&W 686 in .357 Mag. 7 rounds. I
compared this to a 9 mm and .380 pistol round. The increased size of the
revolver cartridge over the pistol cartridge was amazing, so too if you
consider the 38 spl vs the pistol rounds.
I know the semi auto pistol has the advantage of holding more cartridges
than a revolver, but compared to the 686, most pistols, even the .45, seem
almost like toys. Maybe I am becoming a revolver lover since the 686 is my
first revolver after buying 4 semi auto pistols (.380, 9mm, and two .45's).
I guess pistols are made for shooting two legged animals and revolvers are
made for bigger game?
Vito
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Win a Fulton Armory AR-15 rifle chambered in 6.8mm Rem SPC and protect your
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professorpaul
beginning of the smokeless powder era where you needed quite a bit of
case volume to hold enough of a charge. Look at the .45-70 rifle round,
for example, which is a black powder round. The .357 Magnum is derived
from the .38 SPL by just making it a bit longer. The 9mm Luger round
was developed for the Luger pistol -- Pistol 08, so dates from
slightly later, as does the .380 (9mm Browning Short). There is more to
the issue, but that is the essential story, as I understand it.
Advocate
"vito" <uncle_v...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e2fp07$fq2$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
#I don't want to restart a thread that has likely been posted here again and
# again over the past years, but I had the following thoughts:
#
# I just purchased my first revolver, a S&W 686 in .357 Mag. 7 rounds. I
# compared this to a 9 mm and .380 pistol round. The increased size of the
# revolver cartridge over the pistol cartridge was amazing, so too if you
# consider the 38 spl vs the pistol rounds.
#
# I know the semi auto pistol has the advantage of holding more cartridges
# than a revolver, but compared to the 686, most pistols, even the .45, seem
# almost like toys. Maybe I am becoming a revolver lover since the 686 is
# my
# first revolver after buying 4 semi auto pistols (.380, 9mm, and two
# .45's).
#
# I guess pistols are made for shooting two legged animals and revolvers are
# made for bigger game?
Comparing the physical size of the brass tells you nothing. Another
misconception you have is that your revolver is "made for bigger game". It
was designed to be a law enforcement round. It's a great one, but really not
much better than a .45 or .40.
By the way, it's a fair deer cartridge at close range; most condsider it
"barely adequate". Your handgun would be a perfect house gun.
Jim Casey
# ... but compared to the 686, most pistols, even the .45, seem almost
# like toys.
I wouldn't use the word "toys," but big revolvers certainly have a lot
more heft than pistols meant for concealed carry. They have different
mission profiles.
# Maybe I am becoming a revolver lover ...
It's a terrible addiction. Visit http://forums.sixgunner.com/ for help.
- Jim
Tiger
uncle_v...@yahoo.com wrote on 4/23/06 7:38 AM:
# I don't want to restart a thread that has likely been posted here again and
# again over the past years, but I had the following thoughts:
#
# I just purchased my first revolver, a S&W 686 in .357 Mag. 7 rounds. I
# compared this to a 9 mm and .380 pistol round. The increased size of the
# revolver cartridge over the pistol cartridge was amazing, so too if you
# consider the 38 spl vs the pistol rounds.
#
# I know the semi auto pistol has the advantage of holding more cartridges
# than a revolver, but compared to the 686, most pistols, even the .45, seem
# almost like toys. Maybe I am becoming a revolver lover since the 686 is my
# first revolver after buying 4 semi auto pistols (.380, 9mm, and two .45's).
#
# I guess pistols are made for shooting two legged animals and revolvers are
# made for bigger game?
#
# Vito
#
#
It's like Blonde vs Brunettes or Coke Vs Pepsi or Chevy Vs Ford. Each have
their fan club. The auto lost some luster when the hi cap mags put them on a
more equal footing with the wheel gun. I've always said beware of the
sixshooter people. They tend not to spray & pray. They make sure they get it
done with 6 (or 7 in your case). If it works for you, enjoy.
ROBERT MILLER
Dont knock 45's, still one of the best rounds out there. Yes revolver's are
sweet.
WaltBJ
The 38 Super is also pretty close. FWIW, shooting anything more
powerful, like the 44M, in double-action slows me down because the
piece bounces up off target. I can keep both the 357 and the10mm
sighted on the target for multiple rounds less than half-second
spacing, but not my 6" S&W 29 . . .one a second for that baby. As for
power, 50AE in the Desert Eagle should be enough to water anyone's
eyes.
Walt BJ
Doug Kanter
news:e2fp07$fq2$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
#I don't want to restart a thread that has likely been posted here again and
# again over the past years, but I had the following thoughts:
#
# I just purchased my first revolver, a S&W 686 in .357 Mag. 7 rounds. I
# compared this to a 9 mm and .380 pistol round. The increased size of the
# revolver cartridge over the pistol cartridge was amazing, so too if you
# consider the 38 spl vs the pistol rounds.
#
# I know the semi auto pistol has the advantage of holding more cartridges
# than a revolver, but compared to the 686, most pistols, even the .45, seem
# almost like toys. Maybe I am becoming a revolver lover since the 686 is
# my
# first revolver after buying 4 semi auto pistols (.380, 9mm, and two
# .45's).
#
# made for bigger game?
#
# Vito
Incorrect conclusions. But, that's OK.
vito
cause a flame war between the semi auto pistol folks and the wheel gun
folks. Also BTW, I like the .45 ACP also. That's why I have two of those.
Question:
Is the smokeless powder used in commercial cartridges basically the same?
Or could they put faster burning powder in the 45 ACP since it is of more
'modern' design and slower burning powder in the 38 Spl?
Also on the same thought, the +P 38 spl cardridge: more powder or faster
burning?
Thanks
"WaltBJ" <walt...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:e2h4tl$4kk$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
> ...
Doug Kanter
# Thanks for your replies. I enjoyed the feedback. Yes, I do not want to
# cause a flame war between the semi auto pistol folks and the wheel gun
# folks. Also BTW, I like the .45 ACP also. That's why I have two of
# those.
#
# Question:
# Is the smokeless powder used in commercial cartridges basically the same?
# Or could they put faster burning powder in the 45 ACP since it is of more
# 'modern' design and slower burning powder in the 38 Spl?
#
# Also on the same thought, the +P 38 spl cardridge: more powder or faster
# burning?
Regarding that last question: This book will make you SO happy, over and
over again:
"Combat Handgunnery", by Chuck Taylor
r...@earthlink.net
<uncle_v...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Large calibers have a distinct disadvantage.
Some years back I read of a State Trooper who carried a .44 Magnum -
this is when they were fairly new on the scene. He got into a gun fight
and got killed because the high recoil of the .44 had his gun in the air
while the other guy with a .38 drilled him with a bunch of bullets.
Recovery time is *all* important if you miss the other guy with your
first shot and he is shooting back at you.
You never do get all the good kinds of cookies in the same box.
vito
Thanks!
"Doug Kanter" <ancien...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e2jqd6$b1t$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
> ...
gyrene
A number of years ago the Dallas PD required their guys to buy their own
weapons. One young officer bought himself "The most powerful handgun in the
world". A .44 magnum. obviously he didn't know jack about guns. One fine day
in downtown Dallas a homeless person took that .44 away from that young
officer. He put the officer on his knees and then did some ranting and
raving while waving the gun around. According to witnesses, some observers
of the situation encouraged the homeless person to shoot the cop. It was
also reported that the officer begged for his life. Eventually the cop was
shot and killed and the killer wandered off to meet his destiny in a McDs at
the trigger fingers of two Dallas detectives. This happened before the
advent of our CHL law.
I can't begin to imagine how embarassing it would be to die that way with a
bullet from your own gun.
old hoodoo
vito wrote:
# I don't want to restart a thread that has likely been posted here again and
# again over the past years, but I had the following thoughts:
#
# I just purchased my first revolver, a S&W 686 in .357 Mag. 7 rounds. I
# compared this to a 9 mm and .380 pistol round. The increased size of the
# revolver cartridge over the pistol cartridge was amazing, so too if you
# consider the 38 spl vs the pistol rounds.
#
# I know the semi auto pistol has the advantage of holding more cartridges
# than a revolver, but compared to the 686, most pistols, even the .45, seem
# almost like toys. Maybe I am becoming a revolver lover since the 686 is my
# first revolver after buying 4 semi auto pistols (.380, 9mm, and two .45's).
#
# I guess pistols are made for shooting two legged animals and revolvers are
# made for bigger game?
#
# Vito
#
#
Except for the Cavalry (horsed cavalry) Pistols and revolvers are last
ditch defensive weapons and/or weapons to threaten your own reluctant
people with , kind of the swords they used to give officers and
artillerymen.
Cavalry used them in place of the sword until the advent of short
repeating rifles. Cavalry pistols tended to be heavier and harder
hitting than those who had to carry them around all the time.
Generally better than the sword, but one tended to
keep the sword around just in case.
Police departments have misused handguns almost from the get go. There
has been a failure in the police industry of requiring a weapon
something between a pistol and a
rifle that an officer could routinely carry and also get too quickly.
.357's, 9MM, .45's are all inadequate for police use. I always thought a
forearm mounted large bore weapon would be best, the crminal would have
a heck of a time taking it from you and would also have a hard time
keeping you from shooting and once you shot, he would go down. Maybe
a forearm mounted shotgun, maybe a two barrel.
Smart criminals and righeous civilians use handguns as last ditch
defensive weapons and usually have something better around to try to get
to like a shotgun. Dumb criminals actually use them offensively and
invariably get killed although they often take innocent people,
including police with them or terribly injure them. Extremely
inefficient for the individual who wants to stay alive.
The problem with the handgun is that most likely the victim is going to
be able to get off a few shots. Only takes one to ruin your whole day.
Police handguns do better when using teamwork a lot of cops are firing
at once, literally inundating a target with bullets. Police handguns
work worst when the office is along a long lonely highways.
Handguns have their place, but overall are pretty sucky.
Gunny
<r...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:e2jqe8$b73$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 04:02:52 +0000 (UTC), "vito"
# <uncle_v...@yahoo.com> wrote:
#
# Large calibers have a distinct disadvantage.
#
# Some years back I read of a State Trooper who carried a .44 Magnum -
# this is when they were fairly new on the scene. He got into a gun fight
# and got killed because the high recoil of the .44 had his gun in the air
# while the other guy with a .38 drilled him with a bunch of bullets.
# Recovery time is *all* important if you miss the other guy with your
# first shot and he is shooting back at you.
As you may recall, that's why Dirty Harry claimed to load with special light
loads, (probably .44 Specials). I think it was in the sequel, Magnum Force,
that he made that statement to one of the vigilante cops he was chatting
with. And yet, that kind of contradicts his famous speeches about "the most
powerful handgun, etc.".
Doug Kanter
#I am buying it from Amazon today.
#
# Thanks!
Pay particular attention to his comments about muzzle flash and how it can
get you killed.
SaPeIsMa
"gyrene" <gyr...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:e2ktmd$p6l$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
#
#
# A number of years ago the Dallas PD required their guys to buy their own
# weapons. One young officer bought himself "The most powerful handgun in
# the
# world". A .44 magnum. obviously he didn't know jack about guns. One fine
# day
# in downtown Dallas a homeless person took that .44 away from that young
# officer. He put the officer on his knees and then did some ranting and
# raving while waving the gun around. According to witnesses, some observers
# of the situation encouraged the homeless person to shoot the cop. It was
# also reported that the officer begged for his life. Eventually the cop was
# shot and killed and the killer wandered off to meet his destiny in a McDs
# at
# the trigger fingers of two Dallas detectives. This happened before the
# advent of our CHL law.
#
# I can't begin to imagine how embarassing it would be to die that way with
# a
# bullet from your own gun.
#
1) If you're dead, you won't be embarrassed.
You'll just be dead
2) The claim of people being disarmed and then shot with their own
weapons occurs far more often with LEOs than civilians. And there is a
reason for that
Unlike LEOs, civilians are not paid to put themselves in harm's way,
against desperate people willing to go any lengths to get away.
jvin007
news:e2ktn7$p7o$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# As you may recall, that's why Dirty Harry claimed to load with special
# light
# loads, (probably .44 Specials). I think it was in the sequel, Magnum
# Force,
# that he made that statement to one of the vigilante cops he was chatting
# with.
I saw that movie a week or so ago and wondered if he, or rather the
script writer, was thinking of .44 Specials when that line was written.
# And yet, that kind of contradicts his famous speeches about "the
# most powerful handgun, etc.".
True, but it was still the most powerful handgun in the world at that
time. I'm no ballistics expert, but back in the early 70's even a light
load in a .44 magnum was probably more powerful then most other
commonly used handgun cartridges.
Mike Paulson
# most powerful handgun, etc.".
I always assumed he was using reduced loads but said those words for their
intimidation value. In a real life situation I would probably tell the
most outrageous lies about my handgun if I thought the bad guy would
believe them.
fugi
# # And yet, that kind of contradicts his famous speeches about "the
# # most powerful handgun, etc.".
# I always assumed he was using reduced loads but said those words for their
# intimidation value. In a real life situation I would probably tell the
# most outrageous lies about my handgun if I thought the bad guy would
# believe them.
As I remember it, in the second one, Magnum Force, he said he used
a "light special" when he was down at the range.
--
Anyone who becomes master of a city accustomed to freedom and does
not destroy it may expect to be destroyed by it; for such a city
may always justify rebellion in the name of liberty and its ancient
institutions. -Niccolo Machiavelli
R.M.R.
~~~~~
Make mine a Brunette and the hell with the rest...
Ray,
(Si vis pacem,
para bellum) U.S.A.
R.M.R.
handgun in the world". A .44 magnum. obviously he didn't know jack about
guns.
<snip>#One fine day in downtown Dallas a homeless person took that .44
away from that young officer.#He put the officer on his knees and then
did some ranting and raving while waving the gun around. Eventually the
cop was shot and killed and the killer wandered off to meet his destiny
in a McDs at the trigger fingers of two Dallas detectives.
<snip>#I can't begin to imagine how embarassing it would be to die that
way with a bullet from your own gun.
~~~~~
Embarrassment probably was the furthest thing on his mind.What I don't
understand is why did you come to the conclusion he didn't know jack
about guns,because he was young and bought a 44 mag? Do you mean to say
if it was a lighter caliber / smaller gun it wouldn't of been taken away
from him?.I actually can't quote the source but I have heard many LEO's
are killed with their own weapon annually and by today's standard most
if not all aren't carrying N frame revolvers much any more...
Ray,
(Si vis pacem,
para bellum) U.S.A.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
gyrene
"R.M.R." <Par...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:e327mm$ppo$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# by:gyrene<snip>#One young officer bought himself "The most powerful
# handgun in the world". A .44 magnum. obviously he didn't know jack about
# guns.
#
# <snip>#One fine day in downtown Dallas a homeless person took that .44
# away from that young officer.#He put the officer on his knees and then
# did some ranting and raving while waving the gun around. Eventually the
# cop was shot and killed and the killer wandered off to meet his destiny
# in a McDs at the trigger fingers of two Dallas detectives.
#
# <snip>#I can't begin to imagine how embarassing it would be to die that
# way with a bullet from your own gun.
#
# ~~~~~
# Embarrassment probably was the furthest thing on his mind.What I don't
# understand is why did you come to the conclusion he didn't know jack
# about guns,because he was young and bought a 44 mag? Do you mean to say
# if it was a lighter caliber / smaller gun it wouldn't of been taken away
# from him?.I actually can't quote the source but I have heard many LEO's
# are killed with their own weapon annually and by today's standard most
# if not all aren't carrying N frame revolvers much any more...
#
It has become increasingly clear that you don't really know what you're
talking about in spite of some guys saying that we should go easy on you
because you've been here awhile so I'm not going to waste keyboarding on
explaining why it was a mistake for the young doomed officer to buy a .44
magnum as a street duty gun because you'll just come back with another
incomprehensible statement that you seem to specialize in along with several
other of the posters here. The unsuitability of a .44 Magnum as a street
duty gun is self-evident by anyone that has any knowledge at all of various
handguns, their power and recoil in a gunfight.
Besides, I was a cop and you weren't. So one of us knows what we're talking
about. Guess which one.
Brian Bunin
#
#"R.M.R." <Par...@webtv.net> wrote in message
#news:e327mm$ppo$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
## by:gyrene<snip>#One young officer bought himself "The most powerful
## handgun in the world". A .44 magnum. obviously he didn't know jack about
## guns.
##
## <snip>#One fine day in downtown Dallas a homeless person took that .44
## away from that young officer.#He put the officer on his knees and then
## did some ranting and raving while waving the gun around. Eventually the
## cop was shot and killed and the killer wandered off to meet his destiny
## in a McDs at the trigger fingers of two Dallas detectives.
##
## <snip>#I can't begin to imagine how embarassing it would be to die that
## way with a bullet from your own gun.
##
## ~~~~~
## Embarrassment probably was the furthest thing on his mind.What I don't
## understand is why did you come to the conclusion he didn't know jack
## about guns,because he was young and bought a 44 mag? Do you mean to say
## if it was a lighter caliber / smaller gun it wouldn't of been taken away
## from him?.I actually can't quote the source but I have heard many LEO's
## are killed with their own weapon annually and by today's standard most
## if not all aren't carrying N frame revolvers much any more...
##
#It has become increasingly clear that you don't really know what you're
#talking about in spite of some guys saying that we should go easy on you
#because you've been here awhile so I'm not going to waste keyboarding on
#explaining why it was a mistake for the young doomed officer to buy a .44
#magnum as a street duty gun because you'll just come back with another
#incomprehensible statement that you seem to specialize in along with several
#other of the posters here. The unsuitability of a .44 Magnum as a street
#duty gun is self-evident by anyone that has any knowledge at all of various
#handguns, their power and recoil in a gunfight.
#Besides, I was a cop and you weren't. So one of us knows what we're talking
#about. Guess which one.
#
#
Umm, not you?
Your example of an Officer who had his .44 taken away from him is kinda
specious. Is there any reason to believe that; if he'd been carrying a .357,
it wouldn't have been taken away from him?
The fact that he was shot with his own gun is very sad. What caliber it was is
pretty irrelevant.
spike
Tiger wrote:
# It's like Blonde vs Brunettes or Coke Vs Pepsi or Chevy Vs Ford. Each have
Redheads... pasty white skin with freckles...
R.M.R.
was a mistake for the young doomed officer to buy a .44 magnum as a
street duty gun because you'll just come back with another
incomprehensible statement that you seem to specialize in along with
a street duty gun is self-evident by anyone that has any knowledge at
all of various handguns, their power and recoil in a
we're talking about.#Guess which one.
~~~~~
Apples to oranges,your saying a 44mag. isn't' street worthy,maybe yes
maybe no under certain circumstances for various reasons but my
puzzlement was not with the .44 itself but how it pertained to your LEO
getting killed story,
My only question is how did he,by toting a .44 have anything to do with
some street goon taking it away and killing him.You make the point of
damning the .44 for street use then go into a story line where the .44
is left out.If there's a part you forgoten please feel free to
elaborate.Did he fire a round and couldn't recover from the recoil in
time?, Was it too heavy for him to draw quickly?, Was it not fitted
correctly for his duty rig?.Would it of been a different outcome if it
were another type firearm? Again where does the .44 mag fit into this
particular story of him having his gun taken away and killed with it.
Obviously it worked for the assassin but that's not the point. "Just the
facts mam, just the facts"
You post a story in a news group with a big whole in the middle then
react with petty insults (more respectful to just call me an A__hold)
when someone questions it.
<snip>##Besides,#I was a cop and you weren't.#So one of us knows what
we're talking about.#Guess which one.
W e l l, excuse me to tears but I'm not impressed.See a lot of "I once
was a cop types" in reality wouldn't know a breech from a bore and the
ones that do very rarely brag (aka gas bagging) about it.Those are the
ones I hold in high regard and choose to listen to when they speak,not
the egotistic ones...
Ray,
(Si vis pacem,
para bellum) U.S.A.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
R.M.R.
know what you're talking about in spite of some guys saying that we
should go easy on you because you've been here awhile
~~~~~
Trust I'm not worthy,they're only being kind. I am an A__hole o-:
Ray,
(Si vis pacem,
para bellum) U.S.A.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
SaPeIsMa
"spike" <spi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:e34onh$pc$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
#
# Tiger wrote:
# # It's like Blonde vs Brunettes or Coke Vs Pepsi or Chevy Vs Ford. Each
# have
# # their fan club.
#
# Redheads... pasty white skin with freckles...
#
Fortunately not all redheads have "pasty white skin"...
Plink
wrote:
#
#Tiger wrote:
## It's like Blonde vs Brunettes or Coke Vs Pepsi or Chevy Vs Ford. Each have
## their fan club.
#
#Redheads... pasty white skin with freckles...
I thought I was the only one who likes that! :)
Mike
"We have enough youth. What we need is a fountain of SMART!"
AOL - "You've got training wheels on your internet"
Plink
wrote:
#The unsuitability of a .44 Magnum as a street
#duty gun is self-evident by anyone that has any knowledge at all of various
#handguns, their power and recoil in a gunfight.
#Besides, I was a cop and you weren't. So one of us knows what we're talking
#about. Guess which one.
I agree that the .44 mag was a poor choice of duty weapons, but how
did that choice get it taken away from him? Every year there are
officers shot with their duty weapons, be they 9mm, .40, .45, etc.
Mike
"We have enough youth. What we need is a fountain of SMART!"
AOL - "You've got training wheels on your internet"
zxcvbob
# On Mon, 1 May 2006 00:09:32 +0000 (UTC), "gyrene" <gyr...@gte.net>
# wrote:
#
# #The unsuitability of a .44 Magnum as a street
# #duty gun is self-evident by anyone that has any knowledge at all of various
# #handguns, their power and recoil in a gunfight.
# #Besides, I was a cop and you weren't. So one of us knows what we're talking
# #about. Guess which one.
#
# I agree that the .44 mag was a poor choice of duty weapons, but how
# did that choice get it taken away from him? Every year there are
# officers shot with their duty weapons, be they 9mm, .40, .45, etc.
#
If he'd had a .25 ACP, instead of a .44, he probably would have survived.
Bob
ds...@webtv.net
http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm
cor...@csi.net
wrote:
#Plink wrote:
## On Mon, 1 May 2006 00:09:32 +0000 (UTC), "gyrene" <gyr...@gte.net>
## wrote:
##
## #The unsuitability of a .44 Magnum as a street
## #duty gun is self-evident by anyone that has any knowledge at all of various
## #handguns, their power and recoil in a gunfight.
## #Besides, I was a cop and you weren't. So one of us knows what we're talking
## #about. Guess which one.
##
## I agree that the .44 mag was a poor choice of duty weapons, but how
## did that choice get it taken away from him? Every year there are
## officers shot with their duty weapons, be they 9mm, .40, .45, etc.
##
#
#
#If he'd had a .25 ACP, instead of a .44, he probably would have survived.
#
#Bob
#
I did not catch the beginning of this thread but I remember about 20-30
years ago reading an item in a gun annual about a State Trooper who was
carrying a .44 Mag. He got killed in a gunfight with some guy who had a
much smaller caliber weapon. The trooper had gotten one shot off and
missed, but due to the recovery time before he could get off another
shot, the bad guy filled him with a number of lower caliber bullets,
killing the trooper.
R.M.R.
did that choice get it taken away from him? Every year there are ##
~~~~~
Only gyrene knows the answer to his story and obviously we're not
privileged to that information.Must be some x-leo well kept code of
silence...
Ray,
(Si vis pacem,
para bellum) U.S.A.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------