Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Loading a revolver
19 views
Skip to first unread message
Galen Hekhuis
Feb 10, 2012, 5:18:05 PM2/10/12
to
The gun: .44 Special Charter Arms Bulldog (5 shot revolver, 2 1/2 in
barrel)
Possible problem: The cartridges don't seat in all the way when
dropped into chambers in the cylinder.
When loading the gun, sometimes the cartridges don't go all the way
into the chamber. When I drop cartridges into the cylinder, they
usually go "thunk" and I can hear them seat. On occasion though, they
make slightly different noise and don't go all the way in. The
distance isn't much at all, almost imperceptible, on ones that have
not "seated" all the way I am able to slide my thumbnail between the
rim of the cartridge and the cylinder, on those that do seat I cannot.
Only the slightest pressure is required to make ones that haven't gone
in all the way, "seat." In any event, the distance is hardly enough
to bother the cylinder swinging back into the gun. I chucked a brass
brush (.41-.45) from a gun cleaning kit into a Dremel tool and had at
it cleaning out all the chamber holes, wiped down all the cartridges,
visually inspected them for any imperfection, etc. No difference. I
have tried rotating the cartridge and then dropping it in, sometimes
it "seats" and sometimes it doesn't. It isn't always the same chamber
either. I can't seem so get it to repeat predictably. If it's the
ammo, I would expect it to behave the same way in any chamber, or at
least hang up in one cylinder fairly consistently, but it doesn't, no
matter how I rotate the cartridge prior to insertion. If it were a
chamber, I would likewise expect some consistency, but there seemingly
is none, it can happen to any chamber.
After spending hours trying different ideas, it dawned on me that I am
way out of my depth on this one. Maybe it isn't really a problem at
all, and this is just the first time I've noticed it. I recently
started using a "speed loader" for it when I noticed it. Before, I
can't recall ever loading before by just introducing the nose of the
bullet into the chamber, and then letting it fall the rest of the way
by its own weight. Maybe the Magsafe ammo just isn't heavy enough (92
grain vs ~200 grain that I used to load).
So what's the 'net wisdom on this? Should I scurry off to a
gunsmith, is there a relatively simple fix, or should I just take up
knitting or something?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Learn about rec.guns at http://www.recguns.net
-----------------------------------------------------------------
barrel)
Possible problem: The cartridges don't seat in all the way when
dropped into chambers in the cylinder.
When loading the gun, sometimes the cartridges don't go all the way
into the chamber. When I drop cartridges into the cylinder, they
usually go "thunk" and I can hear them seat. On occasion though, they
make slightly different noise and don't go all the way in. The
distance isn't much at all, almost imperceptible, on ones that have
not "seated" all the way I am able to slide my thumbnail between the
rim of the cartridge and the cylinder, on those that do seat I cannot.
Only the slightest pressure is required to make ones that haven't gone
in all the way, "seat." In any event, the distance is hardly enough
to bother the cylinder swinging back into the gun. I chucked a brass
brush (.41-.45) from a gun cleaning kit into a Dremel tool and had at
it cleaning out all the chamber holes, wiped down all the cartridges,
visually inspected them for any imperfection, etc. No difference. I
have tried rotating the cartridge and then dropping it in, sometimes
it "seats" and sometimes it doesn't. It isn't always the same chamber
either. I can't seem so get it to repeat predictably. If it's the
ammo, I would expect it to behave the same way in any chamber, or at
least hang up in one cylinder fairly consistently, but it doesn't, no
matter how I rotate the cartridge prior to insertion. If it were a
chamber, I would likewise expect some consistency, but there seemingly
is none, it can happen to any chamber.
After spending hours trying different ideas, it dawned on me that I am
way out of my depth on this one. Maybe it isn't really a problem at
all, and this is just the first time I've noticed it. I recently
started using a "speed loader" for it when I noticed it. Before, I
can't recall ever loading before by just introducing the nose of the
bullet into the chamber, and then letting it fall the rest of the way
by its own weight. Maybe the Magsafe ammo just isn't heavy enough (92
grain vs ~200 grain that I used to load).
So what's the 'net wisdom on this? Should I scurry off to a
gunsmith, is there a relatively simple fix, or should I just take up
knitting or something?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Learn about rec.guns at http://www.recguns.net
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Larry Fishel
Feb 11, 2012, 11:06:31 AM2/11/12
to
All-lead bullets, or copper jacketed?
nord...@yahoo.com
Feb 11, 2012, 11:06:33 AM2/11/12
to
# .44 Special Charter Arms Bulldog (5 shot revolver, 2 1/2 in
# barrel)
# When loading the gun, sometimes the cartridges don't go all the way
# into the chamber. =A0When I drop cartridges into the cylinder, they
# usually go "thunk" and I can hear them seat.
# Maybe the Magsafe ammo just isn't heavy enough (92
# grain vs ~200 grain that I used to load).
I don't hear you saying you cleaned carefully under the ejector.
I do hear you saying it only happens some times with one brand of
ammunition.
Clean under the ejector star, then try some traditional 165-246 grain
ammunition to see if the problem is the magic bullets.
Steve W.
Feb 11, 2012, 11:06:34 AM2/11/12
to
Sounds completely normal. All that is happening is the round may have a
SLIGHT ding or maybe it isn't perfectly round.
Could even be just friction between the brass and steel.
As long as you're not forcing them into the chamber I wouldn't worry
about it.
--
Steve W.
SLIGHT ding or maybe it isn't perfectly round.
Could even be just friction between the brass and steel.
As long as you're not forcing them into the chamber I wouldn't worry
about it.
--
Steve W.
MR
Feb 11, 2012, 11:06:35 AM2/11/12
to
Sounds like the chambers are a skosh to small. Maybe a little honing
would be just enough to let the rounds drop in all the way. If you mic
the rounds that stick vs the ones that drop in, you will probably see a
half a thou. or so diff.
Good luck,
MR
Dudley
Feb 11, 2012, 11:06:37 AM2/11/12
to
Just a thought. Take a caliper to the cases of that ammo. There is a
good chance that a slight variation can be seen. probably very near the
base. The other possibility, and this too a caliper can help find is
there is some extra lube on some rounds and it is causing the
'sticking'. That you can seat these easily leads me to believe this is
the highest probability.
Gary McQuigg
Feb 11, 2012, 11:06:38 AM2/11/12
to
Check out this page. It should fix your problem
http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/hand-gun-dies/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die/
Schwesowski Karl
Feb 11, 2012, 11:06:43 AM2/11/12
to
On 10 Feb., 23:18, Galen Hekhuis <ghekh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
# It isn't always the same chamber
# either. =A0I can't seem so get it to repeat predictably. =A0If it's the
# ammo, I would expect it to behave the same way in any chamber, or at
# least hang up in one cylinder fairly consistently, but it doesn't, no
# matter how I rotate the cartridge prior to insertion.
To my mind, this can basically only mean the ammo itself is
inconsistent from round to round. What kind do you use? Have you tried
different brands?
It may sometimes seem a cheap, disposable product but the cartridge is
the part of the gun that needs to be manufactured with the greatest
degree of precision.
# It isn't always the same chamber
# either. =A0I can't seem so get it to repeat predictably. =A0If it's the
# ammo, I would expect it to behave the same way in any chamber, or at
# least hang up in one cylinder fairly consistently, but it doesn't, no
# matter how I rotate the cartridge prior to insertion.
To my mind, this can basically only mean the ammo itself is
inconsistent from round to round. What kind do you use? Have you tried
different brands?
It may sometimes seem a cheap, disposable product but the cartridge is
the part of the gun that needs to be manufactured with the greatest
degree of precision.
Gunner Asch
Feb 11, 2012, 4:12:39 PM2/11/12
to
If these are handloads..the crimp die is set a bit off. Too much crimp
and it can puff the cases out a bit.
If they are commercial ammo..Id check to see which chambers are the
problem child mark them, .....and then take a bit of 250 emory cloth in
a bore jag, and spin it for a couple seconds in an electric drill, wipe
the chamber, and retry until the cartridges fall in normally. Spin of
course in the area of the "constriction". Repeat as necessary.
You could have a tight chamber..or a restriction at the mouth of the
chamber..IE it was chambered a cunt hair too short.
While not prevelant..its an occasional problem folks see with less
expensive arms..and even an occasional expensive one. They may not have
run the chambering reamer all the way in..or the reamer was worn.
Gunner
Gunner Asch
Feb 11, 2012, 4:12:40 PM2/11/12
to
Oh..last question..does it do this with ALL brands/types of ammo, or
just certain ones?
Gunner
Galen Hekhuis
Feb 11, 2012, 4:12:41 PM2/11/12
to
Can this be used to re-crimp already manufactured ammo?
Galen Hekhuis
Feb 11, 2012, 4:12:43 PM2/11/12
to
Copper jacketed lead shot. I used to use Winchester lead hollow
points. I'm begriming to think it is the brand/batch of ammo. I
just tried some CCI snake shot rounds, and had no problems. I kinda
like the MagSafe hype, less recoil (although the normal recoil isn't
bad to me at all) and virtually no chance of ricochet (not that there
is much chance here anyway) with decent stopping power (so they say).
Is it worth fussing with this ammo or am I just another victim of
slick advertising?
points. I'm begriming to think it is the brand/batch of ammo. I
just tried some CCI snake shot rounds, and had no problems. I kinda
like the MagSafe hype, less recoil (although the normal recoil isn't
bad to me at all) and virtually no chance of ricochet (not that there
is much chance here anyway) with decent stopping power (so they say).
Is it worth fussing with this ammo or am I just another victim of
slick advertising?
Giganews.com
Feb 11, 2012, 4:12:44 PM2/11/12
to
Regardless of the cause, this should be a lesson for everyone that carries
for self defense.
Check every round for fit before placing it in a speedloader or magazine.
Your life depends on it.
John
for self defense.
Check every round for fit before placing it in a speedloader or magazine.
Your life depends on it.
John
Gerald "Brick" Brickwood
Feb 11, 2012, 4:12:47 PM2/11/12
to
Go to Brownell's and get yourself some of the .45 Caliber CHAMBER BRUSHES or
if you're worried about using stainless brushes get a bronze .45 Cal bore
brush and give your chambers a good thorough scrubbing. (Note: the brush
has to be as close to the diameter of the cartridge case as possible)
There's probably a build up of crud at the throat (?) of the chambers that
is keeping the cartridges from seating.
Ralph Mowery
Feb 11, 2012, 5:48:05 PM2/11/12
to
"Galen Hekhuis" <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:jh6lkb$ok4$1...@news.albasani.net...
# Copper jacketed lead shot. I used to use Winchester lead hollow
# points. I'm begriming to think it is the brand/batch of ammo. I
# just tried some CCI snake shot rounds, and had no problems. I kinda
# like the MagSafe hype, less recoil (although the normal recoil isn't
# bad to me at all) and virtually no chance of ricochet (not that there
# is much chance here anyway) with decent stopping power (so they say).
# Is it worth fussing with this ammo or am I just another victim of
# slick advertising?
#
I would say just a victum of slick advertising. The 44 special with most
any kind of standard or hollow points should get the job done. Sometimes
you may want to shoot through an object.
Also probably a very high pirce compaired to other ammo.
For revolvers, that is not that big of an issue, but for autoloaders, you
need to shoot at least 100 rounds through it to make sure the gun will
function with that specific kind of ammo.
B R U C E
Feb 11, 2012, 8:01:50 PM2/11/12
to
The .44 CCI shotshells are NOT a defensive ammo by any stretch.
Shoot somebody with one and you will realy piss them off
Shoot somebody with one and you will realy piss them off
Galen Hekhuis
Feb 12, 2012, 8:58:33 AM2/12/12
to
On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:01:50 +0000 (UTC), BAK...@webtv.net (B R U C E)
wrote:
#The .44 CCI shotshells are NOT a defensive ammo by any stretch.
#
#Shoot somebody with one and you will realy piss them off
Yeah, and that's about all you'll do, just make 'em really angry. They
don't seem real good for snakes either. They do come in a neat box,
though.
wrote:
#The .44 CCI shotshells are NOT a defensive ammo by any stretch.
#
#Shoot somebody with one and you will realy piss them off
Yeah, and that's about all you'll do, just make 'em really angry. They
don't seem real good for snakes either. They do come in a neat box,
though.
Larry
Feb 12, 2012, 8:58:34 AM2/12/12
to
In article <jh452t$rd0$1...@news.albasani.net>, ghek...@earthlink.net says...
# So what's the 'net wisdom on this? Should I scurry off to a
# gunsmith, is there a relatively simple fix, or should I just take up
# knitting or something?
Take up knitting. The revolver is correct, the ammunition has minor
variations, and it's not worth worrying about.
# So what's the 'net wisdom on this? Should I scurry off to a
# gunsmith, is there a relatively simple fix, or should I just take up
# knitting or something?
Take up knitting. The revolver is correct, the ammunition has minor
variations, and it's not worth worrying about.
nord...@yahoo.com
Feb 12, 2012, 8:58:36 AM2/12/12
to
# I kinda
# like the MagSafe hype, less recoil (although the normal recoil isn't
# bad to me at all) and virtually no chance of ricochet (not that there
# is much chance here anyway) with decent stopping power (so they say).
# Is it worth fussing with this ammo or am I just another victim of
# slick advertising?
At least you know it's hype. At $17.15 per 8 rounds, the magic
bullets are way too expensive for practice. Extra light bullets at
extra high speed rarely shoot to the sights. Most importantly they do
not meet minimum penetration standards.
# like the MagSafe hype, less recoil (although the normal recoil isn't
# bad to me at all) and virtually no chance of ricochet (not that there
# is much chance here anyway) with decent stopping power (so they say).
# Is it worth fussing with this ammo or am I just another victim of
# slick advertising?
At least you know it's hype. At $17.15 per 8 rounds, the magic
bullets are way too expensive for practice. Extra light bullets at
extra high speed rarely shoot to the sights. Most importantly they do
not meet minimum penetration standards.
Ralph Mowery
Feb 12, 2012, 6:48:25 PM2/12/12
to
"Schwesowski Karl" <Schwesow...@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:jh63mj$e6m$1...@news.albasani.net...
# To my mind, this can basically only mean the ammo itself is
# inconsistent from round to round. What kind do you use? Have you tried
# different brands?
#
# It may sometimes seem a cheap, disposable product but the cartridge is
# the part of the gun that needs to be manufactured with the greatest
# degree of precision.
At the price of that kind of ammo, one would think it would be made with
more precision than it actually is. Very pricey ammo to shoot enough of to
see how it really works in differant situations and tests.
When you can pick the shot, it may be ok. There are many times that you
just have to take what ever shot you can. Then you need some ammo that will
work under all conditions.
Gunner Asch
Feb 12, 2012, 8:11:51 PM2/12/12
to
On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:58:33 +0000 (UTC), Galen Hekhuis
<ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
#On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:01:50 +0000 (UTC), BAK...@webtv.net (B R U C E)
#wrote:
#
##The .44 CCI shotshells are NOT a defensive ammo by any stretch.
##
##Shoot somebody with one and you will realy piss them off
#
#Yeah, and that's about all you'll do, just make 'em really angry. They
#don't seem real good for snakes either. They do come in a neat box,
#though.
#
On the other hand..you CAN load them with black powder balls. Most will
hold at least 3 balls, which makes a very..very interesting load.
Measure the inside of the shot capsule and get a handful of balls to fit
snuggly.
I know a detective that hit a guy with 2 shots and the bad guy was dead
before he it the floor. Pissed off the coroner who had to chart the
wound channels <G>
Gunner
<ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
#On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:01:50 +0000 (UTC), BAK...@webtv.net (B R U C E)
#wrote:
#
##The .44 CCI shotshells are NOT a defensive ammo by any stretch.
##
##Shoot somebody with one and you will realy piss them off
#
#Yeah, and that's about all you'll do, just make 'em really angry. They
#don't seem real good for snakes either. They do come in a neat box,
#though.
#
On the other hand..you CAN load them with black powder balls. Most will
hold at least 3 balls, which makes a very..very interesting load.
Measure the inside of the shot capsule and get a handful of balls to fit
snuggly.
I know a detective that hit a guy with 2 shots and the bad guy was dead
before he it the floor. Pissed off the coroner who had to chart the
wound channels <G>
Gunner
Galen Hekhuis
Feb 12, 2012, 8:48:47 PM2/12/12
to
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 01:11:51 +0000 (UTC), Gunner Asch
<gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
#On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:58:33 +0000 (UTC), Galen Hekhuis
#<ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
#
##On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:01:50 +0000 (UTC), BAK...@webtv.net (B R U C E)
##wrote:
##
###The .44 CCI shotshells are NOT a defensive ammo by any stretch.
###
###Shoot somebody with one and you will realy piss them off
##
##Yeah, and that's about all you'll do, just make 'em really angry. They
##don't seem real good for snakes either. They do come in a neat box,
##though.
##
#On the other hand..you CAN load them with black powder balls. Most will
#hold at least 3 balls, which makes a very..very interesting load.
Er, no, *you* can. I could, but the dog ate all my stuff. That's the
ticket, the dog ate it. I can't re-load, although I can upload and
download if that's any help. I'm really ignorant about some stuff,
and this is just one of my vast areas of inexpertize. Is there any
place you can buy custom ammo or is it pretty much a DIY type thing?
<gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
#On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:58:33 +0000 (UTC), Galen Hekhuis
#<ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
#
##On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:01:50 +0000 (UTC), BAK...@webtv.net (B R U C E)
##wrote:
##
###The .44 CCI shotshells are NOT a defensive ammo by any stretch.
###
###Shoot somebody with one and you will realy piss them off
##
##Yeah, and that's about all you'll do, just make 'em really angry. They
##don't seem real good for snakes either. They do come in a neat box,
##though.
##
#On the other hand..you CAN load them with black powder balls. Most will
#hold at least 3 balls, which makes a very..very interesting load.
Er, no, *you* can. I could, but the dog ate all my stuff. That's the
ticket, the dog ate it. I can't re-load, although I can upload and
download if that's any help. I'm really ignorant about some stuff,
and this is just one of my vast areas of inexpertize. Is there any
place you can buy custom ammo or is it pretty much a DIY type thing?
nord...@yahoo.com
Feb 13, 2012, 11:58:39 AM2/13/12
to
# ##The .44 CCI shotshells are NOT a defensive ammo by any stretch.
# #
#
#=A0Is there any
# place you can buy custom ammo or is it pretty much a DIY type thing?
I can see you're deeply attracted to magic bullets. The problem is
there is no such thing as a magic bullet. Get a case of conventional
ammunition that chambers reliably, attend a course of professional
instruction, and practice until you can get the hits you need at high
speed at reasonable ranges.
If you want to play around with dopey revolver ammo ideas sell your 44
Bulldog and buy a Taurus Judge 45/410.
# #
# #On the other hand..you CAN load them with black powder balls. Most will
# #hold at least 3 balls, which makes a very..very interesting load.
#
#=A0Is there any
# place you can buy custom ammo or is it pretty much a DIY type thing?
I can see you're deeply attracted to magic bullets. The problem is
there is no such thing as a magic bullet. Get a case of conventional
ammunition that chambers reliably, attend a course of professional
instruction, and practice until you can get the hits you need at high
speed at reasonable ranges.
If you want to play around with dopey revolver ammo ideas sell your 44
Bulldog and buy a Taurus Judge 45/410.
Gunner Asch
Feb 13, 2012, 11:58:40 AM2/13/12
to
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 01:48:47 +0000 (UTC), Galen Hekhuis
<ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
###though.
###
##On the other hand..you CAN load them with black powder balls. Most will
##hold at least 3 balls, which makes a very..very interesting load.
#
#Er, no, *you* can. I could, but the dog ate all my stuff. That's the
#ticket, the dog ate it. I can't re-load, although I can upload and
#download if that's any help. I'm really ignorant about some stuff,
#and this is just one of my vast areas of inexpertize. Is there any
#place you can buy custom ammo or is it pretty much a DIY type thing?
#
http://www.ammoland.com/2011/03/24/tri-plex-multi-projectile-38-spl-cartridge/
http://lehighdefense.com/Multiple%20Projection.html
On the other hand....
http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm
<ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
###though.
###
##On the other hand..you CAN load them with black powder balls. Most will
##hold at least 3 balls, which makes a very..very interesting load.
#
#Er, no, *you* can. I could, but the dog ate all my stuff. That's the
#ticket, the dog ate it. I can't re-load, although I can upload and
#download if that's any help. I'm really ignorant about some stuff,
#and this is just one of my vast areas of inexpertize. Is there any
#place you can buy custom ammo or is it pretty much a DIY type thing?
#
http://www.ammoland.com/2011/03/24/tri-plex-multi-projectile-38-spl-cartridge/
http://lehighdefense.com/Multiple%20Projection.html
On the other hand....
http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm
Jim Yanik
Feb 13, 2012, 11:59:04 AM2/13/12
to
"Ralph Mowery" <rmower...@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:jh9j49$vkb$1...@news.albasani.net:
# At the price of that kind of ammo, one would think it would be made
# with more precision than it actually is. Very pricey ammo to shoot
# enough of to see how it really works in differant situations and
# tests.
#
# When you can pick the shot, it may be ok. There are many times that
# you just have to take what ever shot you can. Then you need some ammo
# that will work under all conditions.
I don't know why people select Magsafe and other costly frangible ammo,just
because it doesn't penetrate walls,etc.
Sometime,I may NEED (or just prefer)to shoot through a wall or other
barrier. Or even just a thick coat.
Better to have that capability and not need it,than to need it and not have
it.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
news:jh9j49$vkb$1...@news.albasani.net:
# At the price of that kind of ammo, one would think it would be made
# with more precision than it actually is. Very pricey ammo to shoot
# enough of to see how it really works in differant situations and
# tests.
#
# When you can pick the shot, it may be ok. There are many times that
# you just have to take what ever shot you can. Then you need some ammo
# that will work under all conditions.
I don't know why people select Magsafe and other costly frangible ammo,just
because it doesn't penetrate walls,etc.
Sometime,I may NEED (or just prefer)to shoot through a wall or other
barrier. Or even just a thick coat.
Better to have that capability and not need it,than to need it and not have
it.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
Ralph Mowery
Feb 13, 2012, 12:37:55 PM2/13/12
to
"Jim Yanik" <jya...@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:jhbfgo$hdk$1...@news.albasani.net...
# I don't know why people select Magsafe and other costly frangible
# ammo,just
# because it doesn't penetrate walls,etc.
# Sometime,I may NEED (or just prefer)to shoot through a wall or other
# barrier. Or even just a thick coat.
#
# Better to have that capability and not need it,than to need it and not
# have
# it.
That is what I was trying to say.
I do not know for sure, but heard that Magsafe or something like it was
developed for shooting inside the airplanes. That may be one of the few
places that you do not want any penetration and most will be dressed in
light weight shirts and such.
Galen Hekhuis
Feb 14, 2012, 7:26:27 AM2/14/12
to
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 16:58:39 +0000 (UTC), nord...@yahoo.com wrote:
## ##The .44 CCI shotshells are NOT a defensive ammo by any stretch.
## #
## #On the other hand..you CAN load them with black powder balls. Most will
## #hold at least 3 balls, which makes a very..very interesting load.
##
##=A0Is there any
## place you can buy custom ammo or is it pretty much a DIY type thing?
#
#I can see you're deeply attracted to magic bullets. The problem is
#there is no such thing as a magic bullet. Get a case of conventional
#ammunition that chambers reliably, attend a course of professional
#instruction, and practice until you can get the hits you need at high
#speed at reasonable ranges.
I can't say I'm a fan of "magic" bullets, per se. I live in a rural
area, and can't even see the houses of my "neighbors." I generally
fill medium sized boxes with those mailbox catalogs (I have no idea
how I got on so many mailing lists), slap a target on it, and prop it
up in my "shooting range." I figure if I can shoot it DA and get the
shots in about a 3 inch group at about 25 feet, I'm doing OK for that
gun. It's only a 2 1/2 inch barrel, and only carries 5 shots, so I
generally like to be able to see my target, rather than trying to
shoot through something. As far as penetration goes, the lead shot is
epoxy bound and jacketed by copper (brass?) so it penetrates, then
breaks up. As for going through clothes, I've put leather, various
fabrics, an old "Jeans jacket," a bunch of stuff, in front of the
target and it seems to go through that OK. In fact it still goes
through the box, although the logs behind it (that make up the
backstop) get pretty messed up. I probably don't put much more than
75 rounds through it a year, and I doubt I'd use a whole lot more even
if the ammo were cheaper. The cost just isn't that big a factor for
me. Now I have gone through a brick in a weekend with my Ruger, but
that's a .22 and it has a six inch barrel, so I can readily hit things
at much greater ranges. There the cost of ammo is a considerably
larger consideration.
Lower recoil was just a bonus, as I've been firing regular rounds for
15+ years and don't find that recoil to be objectionable, certainly
not as bad as some of the horror stories I've heard about larger
calibers. Like I say, I live in a rural area, so over-penetration or
going through an apartment/condo wall isn't exactly high on my list of
concerns. It seemed like it couldn't hurt, however.
#If you want to play around with dopey revolver ammo ideas sell your 44
#Bulldog and buy a Taurus Judge 45/410.
I thought of that for a bit, but I figured .410 shells would be next
to worthless in that gun, and if I wanted a .45, why dick around with
something like that? Besides, the revolver just looks kind of ugly to
me.
## ##The .44 CCI shotshells are NOT a defensive ammo by any stretch.
## #
## #On the other hand..you CAN load them with black powder balls. Most will
## #hold at least 3 balls, which makes a very..very interesting load.
##
##=A0Is there any
## place you can buy custom ammo or is it pretty much a DIY type thing?
#
#I can see you're deeply attracted to magic bullets. The problem is
#there is no such thing as a magic bullet. Get a case of conventional
#ammunition that chambers reliably, attend a course of professional
#instruction, and practice until you can get the hits you need at high
#speed at reasonable ranges.
I can't say I'm a fan of "magic" bullets, per se. I live in a rural
area, and can't even see the houses of my "neighbors." I generally
fill medium sized boxes with those mailbox catalogs (I have no idea
how I got on so many mailing lists), slap a target on it, and prop it
up in my "shooting range." I figure if I can shoot it DA and get the
shots in about a 3 inch group at about 25 feet, I'm doing OK for that
gun. It's only a 2 1/2 inch barrel, and only carries 5 shots, so I
generally like to be able to see my target, rather than trying to
shoot through something. As far as penetration goes, the lead shot is
epoxy bound and jacketed by copper (brass?) so it penetrates, then
breaks up. As for going through clothes, I've put leather, various
fabrics, an old "Jeans jacket," a bunch of stuff, in front of the
target and it seems to go through that OK. In fact it still goes
through the box, although the logs behind it (that make up the
backstop) get pretty messed up. I probably don't put much more than
75 rounds through it a year, and I doubt I'd use a whole lot more even
if the ammo were cheaper. The cost just isn't that big a factor for
me. Now I have gone through a brick in a weekend with my Ruger, but
that's a .22 and it has a six inch barrel, so I can readily hit things
at much greater ranges. There the cost of ammo is a considerably
larger consideration.
Lower recoil was just a bonus, as I've been firing regular rounds for
15+ years and don't find that recoil to be objectionable, certainly
not as bad as some of the horror stories I've heard about larger
calibers. Like I say, I live in a rural area, so over-penetration or
going through an apartment/condo wall isn't exactly high on my list of
concerns. It seemed like it couldn't hurt, however.
#If you want to play around with dopey revolver ammo ideas sell your 44
#Bulldog and buy a Taurus Judge 45/410.
I thought of that for a bit, but I figured .410 shells would be next
to worthless in that gun, and if I wanted a .45, why dick around with
something like that? Besides, the revolver just looks kind of ugly to
me.
Gandalf
Feb 14, 2012, 7:26:30 AM2/14/12
to
On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:58:33 +0000 (UTC), Galen Hekhuis
<ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
#On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:01:50 +0000 (UTC), BAK...@webtv.net (B R U C E)
#wrote:
#
##The .44 CCI shotshells are NOT a defensive ammo by any stretch.
##
##Shoot somebody with one and you will realy piss them off
#
#Yeah, and that's about all you'll do, just make 'em really angry. They
#don't seem real good for snakes either. They do come in a neat box,
#though.
They ARE good for snakes, but only at distances of MAXIMUM 8 to 10 feet,
from a 6 1/2 inch barrel.
I had some of the empty capsules many, many years ago, and I
experimented with them, including checking the 'pattern' at different
distances. This was all for fun, since I don't live in 'snake country'.
I used #7 1/2 shot, which is what my old Speer #2 reloading manual
recommended.
The shot spreads VERY rapidly, but at a reasonable distance, I'm sure
they would mess up a snake pretty good.
A human being? It would make them REALLY angry.
<ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
#On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:01:50 +0000 (UTC), BAK...@webtv.net (B R U C E)
#wrote:
#
##The .44 CCI shotshells are NOT a defensive ammo by any stretch.
##
##Shoot somebody with one and you will realy piss them off
#
#Yeah, and that's about all you'll do, just make 'em really angry. They
#don't seem real good for snakes either. They do come in a neat box,
#though.
They ARE good for snakes, but only at distances of MAXIMUM 8 to 10 feet,
from a 6 1/2 inch barrel.
I had some of the empty capsules many, many years ago, and I
experimented with them, including checking the 'pattern' at different
distances. This was all for fun, since I don't live in 'snake country'.
I used #7 1/2 shot, which is what my old Speer #2 reloading manual
recommended.
The shot spreads VERY rapidly, but at a reasonable distance, I'm sure
they would mess up a snake pretty good.
A human being? It would make them REALLY angry.
Steve W.
Feb 14, 2012, 7:26:31 AM2/14/12
to
# I do not know for sure, but heard that Magsafe or something like it was
# developed for shooting inside the airplanes. That may be one of the few
# places that you do not want any penetration and most will be dressed in
# light weight shirts and such.
#
#
Read the page and you will see a LOT of contradictions all over it.
They have the claim that the ammo will NOT penetrate sheet rock, then go
on to say it is tested to penetrate 15 layers of denim fabric.
They also claim that it hits with MORE energy than the conventional
round and at higher velocity. So just how do you get a 92 grain piece of
plastic and bird shot to hit with the same power as a 220grain lead
bullet when fired from the same gun and also claim less recoil???
Sounds a LOT like a bunch of BS to me.
The ONLY drawback to penetration on an aircraft is if your firing
straight down the cabin. If your firing out toward the sides the only
penetration problem is other passengers. Bullet holes won't really hurt
a plane unless it manages to hit vital electronics or control systems.
Even under full pressurization a bullet hole won't do more than whistle.
Two layers of aluminum duct seal can take care of the problem quite well.
--
Steve W.
David R. Birch
Feb 14, 2012, 7:26:36 AM2/14/12
to
On 2/13/2012 10:59 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
# "Ralph Mowery"<rmower...@earthlink.net> wrote in
# news:jh9j49$vkb$1...@news.albasani.net:
#
#
# # At the price of that kind of ammo, one would think it would be made
# # with more precision than it actually is. Very pricey ammo to shoot
# # enough of to see how it really works in differant situations and
# # tests.
# #
# # that will work under all conditions.
#
# I don't know why people select Magsafe and other costly frangible ammo,just
# because it doesn't penetrate walls,etc.
# Sometime,I may NEED (or just prefer)to shoot through a wall or other
# barrier. Or even just a thick coat.
#
# Better to have that capability and not need it,than to need it and not have
# it.
The Box of Truth website tested various shot loads and concluded that if
a load wouldn't penetrate dry wall, it also wasn't an effective defense
load.
So I took the bird shot out of my community relations gun and it now has
00 buck.
David
# "Ralph Mowery"<rmower...@earthlink.net> wrote in
# news:jh9j49$vkb$1...@news.albasani.net:
#
#
# # At the price of that kind of ammo, one would think it would be made
# # with more precision than it actually is. Very pricey ammo to shoot
# # enough of to see how it really works in differant situations and
# # tests.
# #
# # When you can pick the shot, it may be ok. There are many times that
# # you just have to take what ever shot you can. Then you need some ammo
# # that will work under all conditions.
#
# I don't know why people select Magsafe and other costly frangible ammo,just
# because it doesn't penetrate walls,etc.
# Sometime,I may NEED (or just prefer)to shoot through a wall or other
# barrier. Or even just a thick coat.
#
# Better to have that capability and not need it,than to need it and not have
# it.
The Box of Truth website tested various shot loads and concluded that if
a load wouldn't penetrate dry wall, it also wasn't an effective defense
load.
So I took the bird shot out of my community relations gun and it now has
00 buck.
David
nord...@yahoo.com
Feb 14, 2012, 7:26:37 AM2/14/12
to
# http://www.ammoland.com/2011/03/24/tri-plex-multi-projectile-38-spl-cartr=
idge/
#From the footnotes of the Tri=E2=80=90Plex=E2=84=A2 ballistic testing... "(=
2) One of
the three projectiles failed to penetrate four layers of denim"
# http://lehighdefense.com/Multiple%20Projection.html
At least the Lehigh rounds commit to 6-12 inches of penetration. Of
course the FBI recommends a minimum of 12 inches in gelatin and
prefers 18.
idge/
#From the footnotes of the Tri=E2=80=90Plex=E2=84=A2 ballistic testing... "(=
2) One of
the three projectiles failed to penetrate four layers of denim"
# http://lehighdefense.com/Multiple%20Projection.html
At least the Lehigh rounds commit to 6-12 inches of penetration. Of
course the FBI recommends a minimum of 12 inches in gelatin and
prefers 18.
Ernie B.
Feb 14, 2012, 7:26:39 AM2/14/12
to
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 17:37:55 +0000 (UTC) Ralph Mowery wrote:
#
# "Jim Yanik" <jya...@localnet.com# wrote in message
# news:jhbfgo$hdk$1...@news.albasani.net...
# # I don't know why people select Magsafe and other costly frangible
# # ammo,just
# # because it doesn't penetrate walls,etc.
That's the reason the Glaser safety slug
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaser_Safety_Slug> and other frangible ammo was
developed. It also produces a horrific wound in flesh since the bullet
fragments and all of the rounds energy is transferred to the target.
# # Sometime,I may NEED (or just prefer)to shoot through a wall or other
# # barrier. Or even just a thick coat.
#
Fine, if you know for sure what you may hit. There was a guy who had an
accidental discharge of a .30 Mauser FMJ round. It penetrated the wall of his
house and the wall of the house next door and hit a skillet hanging in the
kitchen. It made a nice "clang!" and scared the lady out of a years growth.
# I do not know for sure, but heard that Magsafe or something like it was
# developed for shooting inside the airplanes. That may be one of the few
# places that you do not want any penetration and most will be dressed in
# light weight shirts and such.
#
A bullet hole through a jetliners skin will just make a whistling sound, the
Mythbusters TV show looked into that about two years ago. Also, see Reference
7 of the link above. It's a little out of date but still valid.
--
Ernie B.
Communication: The art of moving an idea from one mind to another, hopefully
without distortion.
#
# "Jim Yanik" <jya...@localnet.com# wrote in message
# news:jhbfgo$hdk$1...@news.albasani.net...
# # I don't know why people select Magsafe and other costly frangible
# # ammo,just
# # because it doesn't penetrate walls,etc.
That's the reason the Glaser safety slug
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaser_Safety_Slug> and other frangible ammo was
developed. It also produces a horrific wound in flesh since the bullet
fragments and all of the rounds energy is transferred to the target.
# # Sometime,I may NEED (or just prefer)to shoot through a wall or other
# # barrier. Or even just a thick coat.
# #
# # Better to have that capability and not need it,than to need it and not
# # have it.
# # Better to have that capability and not need it,than to need it and not
#
Fine, if you know for sure what you may hit. There was a guy who had an
accidental discharge of a .30 Mauser FMJ round. It penetrated the wall of his
house and the wall of the house next door and hit a skillet hanging in the
kitchen. It made a nice "clang!" and scared the lady out of a years growth.
# I do not know for sure, but heard that Magsafe or something like it was
# developed for shooting inside the airplanes. That may be one of the few
# places that you do not want any penetration and most will be dressed in
# light weight shirts and such.
#
A bullet hole through a jetliners skin will just make a whistling sound, the
Mythbusters TV show looked into that about two years ago. Also, see Reference
7 of the link above. It's a little out of date but still valid.
--
Ernie B.
Communication: The art of moving an idea from one mind to another, hopefully
without distortion.
Tom
Feb 14, 2012, 1:24:51 PM2/14/12
to
# I had some of the empty capsules many, many years ago, and I
# experimented with them, including checking the 'pattern' at different
# distances. This was all for fun, since I don't live in 'snake country'.
#
# I used #7 1/2 shot, which is what my old Speer #2 reloading manual
# recommended.
#
# The shot spreads VERY rapidly, but at a reasonable distance, I'm sure
# they would mess up a snake pretty good.
#
# A human being? It would make them REALLY angry.
#
Gandalf,
Exactly correct. I use the Speer load in .38 SP but with #8 shot.
I get about 95grs of shot in the capsule. I hand these out to my
neighbors as we all live in a very rural, snake rich, environment.
I have had several reports of success with this load, and no reports
of failure.
The typical recipient is the Western Diamondback, a sometimes rather
large critter. One large specimen (7ft or so) was hit with one round
and my neighbor reported that it "flattened" it.
Distance is the key. Keep it under 10ft and it will work just fine.
Assuming that the snake is hit in a vital area. Especially the head.
Kind Regards,
Tom, South-Central Texas
Ralph Mowery
Feb 14, 2012, 7:32:30 PM2/14/12
to
"Steve W." <csr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jhdjtn$cos$1...@news.albasani.net...
# Read the page and you will see a LOT of contradictions all over it.
# They have the claim that the ammo will NOT penetrate sheet rock, then go
# on to say it is tested to penetrate 15 layers of denim fabric.
# They also claim that it hits with MORE energy than the conventional
# round and at higher velocity. So just how do you get a 92 grain piece of
# plastic and bird shot to hit with the same power as a 220grain lead
# bullet when fired from the same gun and also claim less recoil???
# Sounds a LOT like a bunch of BS to me.
#
# The ONLY drawback to penetration on an aircraft is if your firing
# straight down the cabin. If your firing out toward the sides the only
# penetration problem is other passengers. Bullet holes won't really hurt
# a plane unless it manages to hit vital electronics or control systems.
# Even under full pressurization a bullet hole won't do more than whistle.
# Two layers of aluminum duct seal can take care of the problem quite well.
#
I do not believe in the trick stuff, so never looked into it. All I have
loaded is some #9 in some 38 special shot shells. Friend of mine uses them
for squirrls at arange of about 5 feet near his house. I usually load the
heavier hollow points such as 158 grs in a .357 or 180 gr HP in a .40
caliber. FMJs in a .380 in the few times I have carried one.
If that Magsafe stuff will not penetrate a wall of sheetrock, I find it
difficult that it would penetrate enough to do much damage on a body.
I agree on the airplane. Unless the cockpit was hit, probably little
dammage would be done. Maybe if it did hit one of the engines, it could
cause problems. Just a hole in the plane is not much of a problem.
I am not even sure the Magsafe or something like was made for the airplanes
anyway, just something I heard in the past.
Jim Yanik
Feb 14, 2012, 10:22:16 PM2/14/12
to
"Ralph Mowery" <rmower...@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:jhbhpj$nem$1...@news.albasani.net:
# I do not know for sure, but heard that Magsafe or something like it was
# developed for shooting inside the airplanes. That may be one of the few
# places that you do not want any penetration and most will be dressed in
# light weight shirts and such.
If I were a Sky Marshal or FFDO,I'd want to be able to shoot through a seat
back or partition.
AFAIK,from what I've read here and there,they use premium JHP ammo,not
frangibles.
also,note that firing will be in a HORIZONTAL direction,while the vital
stuff is BELOW the passenger deck,and even a JHP is not going to penetrate
to down there and still be able to wreck something vital,plus there's a lot
of cargo down there to absorb rounds.
there's also redundancy on most of the critical stuff.
Please don't mention that "explosive decompression" nonsense.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
Fraser Johnston
Feb 14, 2012, 10:22:18 PM2/14/12
to
On 15/02/12 8:32 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
# I am not even sure the Magsafe or something like was made for the airplanes
# anyway, just something I heard in the past.
I'm pretty sure you are thinking of Glaser rounds that were developed
for air marshalls.
--
Fraser
# I am not even sure the Magsafe or something like was made for the airplanes
# anyway, just something I heard in the past.
I'm pretty sure you are thinking of Glaser rounds that were developed
for air marshalls.
--
Fraser
Larry
Feb 27, 2012, 2:11:24 PM2/27/12
to
In article <jhdjtn$cos$1...@news.albasani.net>, csr...@yahoo.com says...
# The ONLY drawback to penetration on an aircraft is if your firing
# straight down the cabin. If your firing out toward the sides the only
# penetration problem is other passengers. Bullet holes won't really hurt
# a plane unless it manages to hit vital electronics or control systems.
# Even under full pressurization a bullet hole won't do more than whistle.
# Two layers of aluminum duct seal can take care of the problem quite well.
Blowing out a window would decompress the cabin pretty quickly.
# The ONLY drawback to penetration on an aircraft is if your firing
# straight down the cabin. If your firing out toward the sides the only
# penetration problem is other passengers. Bullet holes won't really hurt
# a plane unless it manages to hit vital electronics or control systems.
# Even under full pressurization a bullet hole won't do more than whistle.
# Two layers of aluminum duct seal can take care of the problem quite well.
Blowing out a window would decompress the cabin pretty quickly.
SaPeIsMa
Feb 27, 2012, 6:14:34 PM2/27/12
to
"Larry" <lar...@peaksky.com> wrote in message
news:jigkgs$4no$1...@news.albasani.net...
#
#
# Blowing out a window would decompress the cabin pretty quickly.
#
You better read up on the size of the "holes" that are used for letting air
in and out of the cabin.
Not to mention what it would take to "blow out" a window.
Ernie B.
Feb 27, 2012, 6:14:35 PM2/27/12
to
In article <jigkgs$4no$1...@news.albasani.net>, Larry says...
# In article <jhdjtn$cos$1...@news.albasani.net>, csr...@yahoo.com says...
#
# # The ONLY drawback to penetration on an aircraft is if your firing
# # straight down the cabin. If your firing out toward the sides the only
# # penetration problem is other passengers. Bullet holes won't really hurt
# # a plane unless it manages to hit vital electronics or control systems.
# # Even under full pressurization a bullet hole won't do more than whistle.
# # Two layers of aluminum duct seal can take care of the problem quite well.
entire window would need to be taken out, which won't happen with a single
bullet.
--
Ernie B.
# In article <jhdjtn$cos$1...@news.albasani.net>, csr...@yahoo.com says...
#
# # The ONLY drawback to penetration on an aircraft is if your firing
# # straight down the cabin. If your firing out toward the sides the only
# # penetration problem is other passengers. Bullet holes won't really hurt
# # a plane unless it manages to hit vital electronics or control systems.
# # Even under full pressurization a bullet hole won't do more than whistle.
# # Two layers of aluminum duct seal can take care of the problem quite well.
#
# Blowing out a window would decompress the cabin pretty quickly.
#
Watch the first part of <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi1_1l7M8FA>. The
# Blowing out a window would decompress the cabin pretty quickly.
#
entire window would need to be taken out, which won't happen with a single
bullet.
--
Ernie B.
0 new messages