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Opinions Saiga Sporter
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uncle_vito
Jan 25, 2012, 6:00:54 AM1/25/12
to
I am looking for a semi auto rifle that does not make me look like a
terrorist.
The hand grip is out.
I noticed the Saiga Sporter in .223 but was concerned by its cheap price.
Comments?
http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/saiga.shtml
Thanks
Vito
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terrorist.
The hand grip is out.
I noticed the Saiga Sporter in .223 but was concerned by its cheap price.
Comments?
http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/saiga.shtml
Thanks
Vito
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Learn about rec.guns at http://www.recguns.net
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Stanley Schaefer
Jan 26, 2012, 12:18:01 PM1/26/12
to
On Jan 25, 4:00=A0am, "uncle_vito" <uncle_vito2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
# I am looking for a semi auto rifle that does not make me look like a
# terrorist.
#
# The hand grip is out.
#
# I noticed the Saiga Sporter in .223 but was concerned by its cheap price.
#
# Comments?
#
# http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/saiga.shtml
#
# Thanks
#
# Vito
#
Browning and Remlington both make semi-auto sporting rifles that don't
look like you need to be in camo to tote them around. If you don't
like cheap prices, then there are Brownings in Grades 2 and 3 out
there. A lot depends on what you want to DO with one. An SKS is hard
to beat on price and ammo cost for just plinking. If you want a
bigger game hunting rifle, the first two makes are there. Brownings
can be had to take anything on this continent and a good portion of
game in Africa, as well.
Or you could just buy/build an AR and paint it up so it's no longer a
black rifle. Blue, orange and red flake metallics seem to be popular
with some target shooters. Look up "Duracoat".
Stan
# I am looking for a semi auto rifle that does not make me look like a
# terrorist.
#
# The hand grip is out.
#
# I noticed the Saiga Sporter in .223 but was concerned by its cheap price.
#
# Comments?
#
# http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/saiga.shtml
#
# Thanks
#
# Vito
#
Browning and Remlington both make semi-auto sporting rifles that don't
look like you need to be in camo to tote them around. If you don't
like cheap prices, then there are Brownings in Grades 2 and 3 out
there. A lot depends on what you want to DO with one. An SKS is hard
to beat on price and ammo cost for just plinking. If you want a
bigger game hunting rifle, the first two makes are there. Brownings
can be had to take anything on this continent and a good portion of
game in Africa, as well.
Or you could just buy/build an AR and paint it up so it's no longer a
black rifle. Blue, orange and red flake metallics seem to be popular
with some target shooters. Look up "Duracoat".
Stan
CS
Jan 26, 2012, 12:18:03 PM1/26/12
to
All the Saigas look like terrorist guns.
Take a look at the Mini 14. It looks like a hunting rifle.
The .223 is a crap round for anything other than shooting rodents, paper,
and cans. A .22 is just as good, and the ammo is even cheaper.
An SKS uses 7.62x39, same as the AK 47, however it does not look like a
terrorist weapon. The ammo is cheap, and it is effective for deer, bad
guys, and so on.
I've heard very good things about Saiga, and they appear to shoot well,
however to me the workmanship looks like shit. You can get a better made
SKS for less, and the only things you'll be giving up is 'newness',
detachable magazines, and a pistol grip.
CS
Take a look at the Mini 14. It looks like a hunting rifle.
The .223 is a crap round for anything other than shooting rodents, paper,
and cans. A .22 is just as good, and the ammo is even cheaper.
An SKS uses 7.62x39, same as the AK 47, however it does not look like a
terrorist weapon. The ammo is cheap, and it is effective for deer, bad
guys, and so on.
I've heard very good things about Saiga, and they appear to shoot well,
however to me the workmanship looks like shit. You can get a better made
SKS for less, and the only things you'll be giving up is 'newness',
detachable magazines, and a pistol grip.
CS
Argent
Jan 26, 2012, 4:40:12 PM1/26/12
to
On Jan 25, 4:00=A0am, "uncle_vito" <uncle_vito2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
# I am looking for a semi auto rifle that does not make me look like a
# terrorist.
#
# The hand grip is out.
#
# I noticed the Saiga Sporter in .223 but was concerned by its cheap price.
#
# Comments?
#
# http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/saiga.shtml
#
# Thanks
#
# Vito
#
What are you going to use the rifle for? Plinking, varmints, large
# I am looking for a semi auto rifle that does not make me look like a
# terrorist.
#
# The hand grip is out.
#
# I noticed the Saiga Sporter in .223 but was concerned by its cheap price.
#
# Comments?
#
# http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/saiga.shtml
#
# Thanks
#
# Vito
#
game, target shooting, or...?
A 10/22 is adequate for plinking and pest control.
I really don't have a suggestion for varmint shooting that fits your
criteria - maybe a Browning semi-auto in a center fire 22 caliber?
I'd suggest a Keltec, but you are concerned about the cheap price of a
Saiga.
M1A's are good hunting and target guns, but the optics are a little
awkward.
The M1 Garands from the CMP are good guns, but again, optics are
difficult to mount.
I would have suggested an AR-15 or AR-10 patterned rifle, but you
don't seem to like EBRs (Evil Black Rifles).
Gunner Asch
Jan 26, 2012, 4:40:18 PM1/26/12
to
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 17:18:03 +0000 (UTC), "CS" <dont...@sears.com>
wrote:
#
#The .223 is a crap round for anything other than shooting rodents, paper,
#and cans. A .22 is just as good, and the ammo is even cheaper.
Oh oh...poopstorm! INCOMING!!!!
Gunner, running for the bunker....(Grin)
wrote:
#
#The .223 is a crap round for anything other than shooting rodents, paper,
#and cans. A .22 is just as good, and the ammo is even cheaper.
Oh oh...poopstorm! INCOMING!!!!
Gunner, running for the bunker....(Grin)
CS
Jan 27, 2012, 8:17:16 AM1/27/12
to
I'm sure some folks swear by the 223, and have nothing but contempt for the
old 22.
The 223 is a fine manstopper, if, that is, you don't mind using several
rounds per man, according to the men actually using it for that purpose.
For a very good shot and informed deer hunter, it is highly iffy, and
useless for anything bigger or meaner.
When compared to the 22, I don't see much difference in net results. While
a 22 might take more rounds to put a man down, is unlikely to do anything
other than torture a deer, and has a slightly shorter effective range, that,
in my mind, makes the 223 only slightly more useful.
Even though the 223 is cheap when compared to real rifle bullets, it is far
more expensive than 22, as is the weapons to fire them.
For those who want to shoot little furry creatures and paper/cans/fruit, the
223 is expensive overkill. For killing anything bigger than rabbits, it
probably isn't enough.
CS
old 22.
The 223 is a fine manstopper, if, that is, you don't mind using several
rounds per man, according to the men actually using it for that purpose.
For a very good shot and informed deer hunter, it is highly iffy, and
useless for anything bigger or meaner.
When compared to the 22, I don't see much difference in net results. While
a 22 might take more rounds to put a man down, is unlikely to do anything
other than torture a deer, and has a slightly shorter effective range, that,
in my mind, makes the 223 only slightly more useful.
Even though the 223 is cheap when compared to real rifle bullets, it is far
more expensive than 22, as is the weapons to fire them.
For those who want to shoot little furry creatures and paper/cans/fruit, the
223 is expensive overkill. For killing anything bigger than rabbits, it
probably isn't enough.
CS
Tom
Jan 27, 2012, 8:14:51 PM1/27/12
to
On 01/27/2012 07:17 AM, CS wrote:
#
# For those who want to shoot little furry creatures and paper/cans/fruit, the
# 223 is expensive overkill. For killing anything bigger than rabbits, it
# probably isn't enough.
#
# CS
#
CS states "it probably isn't enough". Pretty much sums up his knowledge
of the .223/5.56 as a hunting round for "killing anything bigger than
rabbits".
Well, I kill lots of things bigger than rabbits with my AR in 5.56.
The list includes Whitetail, Axis, Fallow, Sika, Blackbuck, and many
dozens of feral hogs. And none, not a single one, of those critters
took more than one step before dropping dead to the ground.
Especially the hogs - the rear legs drop, the front legs go rigid, and
the animals rolls over dead. The size of the hog doesn't seem to
matter, they all drop dead.
The devastation from those 55gr SP's is amazing. Chunks of skull,
brain tissue, or spine poking through the exit side of the head or neck.
My shots are always between 70 and 100 yards, from the back window
of my garage. And I hunt all year on my own place.
And yes, it does take just a little more accuracy but it works; so
far for me 100% of the time. If you don't practice, don't shoot
at animals. Period!
The "real" hunting bullets you talk about, with heart and lung shots,
nearly always allows the animal to run a short distance and thrash
on the ground until it either suffocates or bleeds out.
I like my method a whole lot better. Most of my neighbors use the
heart/lung method and I am very familiar with those results.
And the AR cannot be beat for quick follow up shots on a group of
hogs. The most I have taken, before they all disappeared, was three.
All head, neck, or spine shots. Total elapsed time, about five
seconds.
I hunt deer only for meat, not trophies, and only take doe. So I don't
care if a blow big holes in their heads. In fact, I prefer it.
Gunner Asch wrote:
"Oh oh...poopstorm! INCOMING!!!!
Gunner, running for the bunker....(Grin)"
Good call, Gunner.
Kind Regards,
Tom, South Central TX
#
# For those who want to shoot little furry creatures and paper/cans/fruit, the
# 223 is expensive overkill. For killing anything bigger than rabbits, it
# probably isn't enough.
#
# CS
#
CS states "it probably isn't enough". Pretty much sums up his knowledge
of the .223/5.56 as a hunting round for "killing anything bigger than
rabbits".
Well, I kill lots of things bigger than rabbits with my AR in 5.56.
The list includes Whitetail, Axis, Fallow, Sika, Blackbuck, and many
dozens of feral hogs. And none, not a single one, of those critters
took more than one step before dropping dead to the ground.
Especially the hogs - the rear legs drop, the front legs go rigid, and
the animals rolls over dead. The size of the hog doesn't seem to
matter, they all drop dead.
The devastation from those 55gr SP's is amazing. Chunks of skull,
brain tissue, or spine poking through the exit side of the head or neck.
My shots are always between 70 and 100 yards, from the back window
of my garage. And I hunt all year on my own place.
And yes, it does take just a little more accuracy but it works; so
far for me 100% of the time. If you don't practice, don't shoot
at animals. Period!
The "real" hunting bullets you talk about, with heart and lung shots,
nearly always allows the animal to run a short distance and thrash
on the ground until it either suffocates or bleeds out.
I like my method a whole lot better. Most of my neighbors use the
heart/lung method and I am very familiar with those results.
And the AR cannot be beat for quick follow up shots on a group of
hogs. The most I have taken, before they all disappeared, was three.
All head, neck, or spine shots. Total elapsed time, about five
seconds.
I hunt deer only for meat, not trophies, and only take doe. So I don't
care if a blow big holes in their heads. In fact, I prefer it.
Gunner Asch wrote:
"Oh oh...poopstorm! INCOMING!!!!
Gunner, running for the bunker....(Grin)"
Kind Regards,
Tom, South Central TX
nord...@yahoo.com
Jan 28, 2012, 7:30:20 AM1/28/12
to
# I am looking for a semi auto rifle that does not make me look like a
# terrorist.
# I noticed the Saiga Sporter in .223 but was concerned by its cheap price.
#
# Comments?
You won't fool anyone with a Saiga Sporter. In that price range have
a look at an SKS (but take off the folding bayonet and use it for a
tomato stake).
# terrorist.
# I noticed the Saiga Sporter in .223 but was concerned by its cheap price.
#
# Comments?
You won't fool anyone with a Saiga Sporter. In that price range have
a look at an SKS (but take off the folding bayonet and use it for a
tomato stake).
uncle_vito
Jan 28, 2012, 7:30:22 AM1/28/12
to
Already have a 10/22.
Looking for a centerfire. I can take an EBR long as it does not have a
pistol grip. I will look at an SKS.
I have a friend who has a mini 14 and has feed problems from the magazine.
He returned it to the factory for repairs and it still has the problem. If
not for this problem, that would be the gun for me.
Going to shoot just cans, paper, but only about 100 rounds per year. I
enjoy collecting guns and just having them. I have already collected all
the handguns I want and now am going for rifles.
Jim
Jan 29, 2012, 10:03:10 PM1/29/12
to
On Jan 25, 6:00=A0am, "uncle_vito" <uncle_vito2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
# > I noticed the Saiga Sporter in .223 but was concerned by its cheap pric=
e.
Okay, someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard many times
that the 7.62x39 is not very accurate. Also heard for many years that
the mini-14 is not accurate.
The more I hear this banter about saiga, sks, bla bla bla, the more I
have to think that the AR15 chambered in 5.56 meets the requirements
of two worlds; target shooting and hunting (at least using head
shots). Truth, anyone please?
Jim
# > I noticed the Saiga Sporter in .223 but was concerned by its cheap pric=
e.
Okay, someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard many times
that the 7.62x39 is not very accurate. Also heard for many years that
the mini-14 is not accurate.
The more I hear this banter about saiga, sks, bla bla bla, the more I
have to think that the AR15 chambered in 5.56 meets the requirements
of two worlds; target shooting and hunting (at least using head
shots). Truth, anyone please?
Jim
Ralph Mowery
Jan 30, 2012, 4:53:47 AM1/30/12
to
"Jim" <brass...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jg519d$dfo$1...@news.albasani.net...
# On Jan 25, 6:00=A0am, "uncle_vito" <uncle_vito2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
# # > I noticed the Saiga Sporter in .223 but was concerned by its cheap
# pric=
# e.
#
#
# Okay, someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard many times
# that the 7.62x39 is not very accurate. Also heard for many years that
# the mini-14 is not accurate.
#
# The more I hear this banter about saiga, sks, bla bla bla, the more I
# have to think that the AR15 chambered in 5.56 meets the requirements
# of two worlds; target shooting and hunting (at least using head
# shots). Truth, anyone please?
#
It is not the 7.62x39 that is not accurate,but it depends on the gun you
shoot it it.
I had a Russian sks that would outshoot the mini 14.
I have a mini 14 ranch rifle and it may shoot into 3 inch groups with a
scope on it. That is the same 4x12 scope I had on a 22-250 that shoots less
than 1 inch so it is not the scope.
I also have an inexpensive AR15 in the M4 style. With a red dot scope on
it, I can shoot beter than the mini 14 with the scope out to 100 yards.
A good AR that has been setup for target work is very accurate. Good for
targets.
If you pick the shots a 223 is ok for hunting, but for deer you really have
to pick the shots and have the correct ammo.
nord...@yahoo.com
Jan 30, 2012, 4:53:48 AM1/30/12
to
# Okay, someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard many times
# that the 7.62x39 is not very accurate. Also heard for many years that
# the mini-14 is not accurate.
When I owned an SKS it would shoot Chinese steel case, steel core,
steel jacket (the old timers here will remember the almost free stuff)
into four inches at 100 yards all day long, clean or dirty, hot or
cold, wet or dry. I never shot any good ammo in it. Should have kept
it I guess but it was pretty boring. Cack in the day a Mini 14 could
be expected to shoot about as well but I haven't played with any in
decades so others will have to tell you if they've improved.
Joe Pfeiffer
Jan 30, 2012, 4:53:49 AM1/30/12
to
Jim <brass...@gmail.com> writes:
# On Jan 25, 6:00=A0am, "uncle_vito" <uncle_vito2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
# # > I noticed the Saiga Sporter in .223 but was concerned by its cheap pric=
# e.
#
#
# Okay, someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard many times
# that the 7.62x39 is not very accurate. Also heard for many years that
# the mini-14 is not accurate.
When you say 7.62 in response to a post about a .223, I wonder if you
mean 5.56?
Early Mini-14s have a horrendous reputation for inaccuracy (and I've
made comments about the one I really need to sell), but the issue isn't
the cartridge it's the rifle itself. There are a lot of things you can
point to, but the major problem is the barrel diameter was just plain
too small. There has been a redesign (featuring a heavier barrel), and
my impression is the new ones are much better.
# The more I hear this banter about saiga, sks, bla bla bla, the more I
# have to think that the AR15 chambered in 5.56 meets the requirements
# of two worlds; target shooting and hunting (at least using head
# shots). Truth, anyone please?
When I do finally give up on my Mini-14, I'm almost certain to buy some
sort of AR-like rifle to replace it (I like the looks of the Sig...).
.223 is probably too small to be a good choice on a deer (yes, lots of
people have taken deer with a .223. The question is whether a humane
hunter will take that big a chance on wounding), but is probably a
really good coyote gun -- that's what I originally bought my Mini-14
for.
# On Jan 25, 6:00=A0am, "uncle_vito" <uncle_vito2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
# # > I noticed the Saiga Sporter in .223 but was concerned by its cheap pric=
# e.
#
#
# Okay, someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard many times
# that the 7.62x39 is not very accurate. Also heard for many years that
# the mini-14 is not accurate.
When you say 7.62 in response to a post about a .223, I wonder if you
mean 5.56?
Early Mini-14s have a horrendous reputation for inaccuracy (and I've
made comments about the one I really need to sell), but the issue isn't
the cartridge it's the rifle itself. There are a lot of things you can
point to, but the major problem is the barrel diameter was just plain
too small. There has been a redesign (featuring a heavier barrel), and
my impression is the new ones are much better.
# The more I hear this banter about saiga, sks, bla bla bla, the more I
# have to think that the AR15 chambered in 5.56 meets the requirements
# of two worlds; target shooting and hunting (at least using head
# shots). Truth, anyone please?
sort of AR-like rifle to replace it (I like the looks of the Sig...).
.223 is probably too small to be a good choice on a deer (yes, lots of
people have taken deer with a .223. The question is whether a humane
hunter will take that big a chance on wounding), but is probably a
really good coyote gun -- that's what I originally bought my Mini-14
for.
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