Wild geese hunting with 30-06
jacqu...@gmail.com
birds especially Egyptian geese for research purposes.My problem is
that this is my only rifle and I need a load to minimize meat damage
seeing that I need to take samples of the organs of the birds, but
with the usual loads I tend to blow up my target. Any help will be
apreciated. I have loaded with all kinds of bullet weights so dont
hold back please. Hope you guys can help. I am looking for something
that will equal the .223 or perhaps smaller (if its possable).
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Bill Marrs
<jacqu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fdlhrf$5kt$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# Hi guys. Jacques here from South Africa. I use my 30-06 to hunt wild
# birds especially Egyptian geese for research purposes.My problem is
# that this is my only rifle and I need a load to minimize meat damage
# seeing that I need to take samples of the organs of the birds, but
# with the usual loads I tend to blow up my target. Any help will be
# apreciated. I have loaded with all kinds of bullet weights so dont
# hold back please. Hope you guys can help. I am looking for something
# that will equal the .223 or perhaps smaller (if its possable).
#
Would a chamber adapter work for you? They are available that look like a
steel 30-06 case, and use a lesser caliber. Quite a few choices in 30-06.
http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm
Bill
R.M.R.
use my 30-06 to hunt wild birds especially Egyptian geese for research
purposes.My problem is that this is my only rifle and I need a load to
minimize meat damage seeing that I need to take samples of the organs
of the birds, but with the usual loads I tend to blow up my target.
Any help will be apreciated. I have loaded with all kinds of bullet
weights so dont hold back please. Hope you guys can help. I am looking
for something that will equal the .223 or perhaps smaller (if its
possable).
~~~~~
Shooting Geese with a 30-06? Wouldn't be enough left to stuff a glove
but if that's what you only have the only thing I can remotely think
of in .223 is possibly a Remington Accelerator that shoots a 55gr .224
bullet. It would be interesting to see what happened when it hits a
fat gander at 4000fps. May zip right through without too much damage
or turn it to dust. http://www.firearmsid.com/class_tests/images/bt/bt18.jpg
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/printable_version.aspx?data=R30069
If you google it further you may find some reloading data also. good
luck...
Ray,
(Si vis pacem
para bellum) U.S.A.
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> ...
Bill Poole
# birds especially Egyptian geese for research purposes.My problem is
# that this is my only rifle and I need a load to minimize meat damage
# seeing that I need to take samples of the organs of the birds, but
# with the usual loads I tend to blow up my target. Any help will be
# apreciated. I have loaded with all kinds of bullet weights so dont
# hold back please. Hope you guys can help. I am looking for something
# that will equal the .223 or perhaps smaller (if its possable).
ask around at the local gun clubs, I'm sure you can find a volunteer
research assistant with a more suitable rifle to help you out ;)
if not, one sport that is popular here is cast bullet shooting, guys have a
lot of experience shooting lead bullets at low velocity from center fire
rifles, you'll need to do some research to find loading data and other
tricks, and I don't know how easy it will be to find cast bullets, I guess
you can order a mold easy enough
also the bullet makers make lightweight bullets, like 100 or 110 gr, some
intended for M1 Carbine, some for varmit hunting and you can find low
velocity loading data for them
be very careful working up low velocity loads, 46 gr of H4895 is perfect for
some standard load, 46gr of some pistol powder is perfect for destroying a
rifle and the guy holding it.
good luck
Poole
Thomas Reynolds
rifle. Buy an inexpensive bolt action .22 rifle and get close enough for
head shots maybe. The cost savings on ammunition will help offset the cost.
Can we assume hunting geese with a rifle is legal in South Africa?
Ralph Mowery
# birds especially Egyptian geese for research purposes.My problem is
# that this is my only rifle and I need a load to minimize meat damage
# seeing that I need to take samples of the organs of the birds, but
# with the usual loads I tend to blow up my target. Any help will be
# apreciated. I have loaded with all kinds of bullet weights so dont
# hold back please. Hope you guys can help. I am looking for something
# that will equal the .223 or perhaps smaller (if its possable).
#
#
I don't ahve an exect load for you, but you might try a buckshot pellet
loaded over a few grains of handgun powder. This will put the pellet out
around 1000 fps and should cause mimimal dammage.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_19_46/ai_65017381/pg_2
http://www.woodsdrummer.com/ml07.html
flash
adapts the 32ACP cartridge for the 30-06. That should do the job, cheaply,
and produce the results you require.
It allows the use of the 32ACP (pistol) round, which is quite small and
low-velocity, in the 30-06.
Flash
<jacqu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fdlhrf$5kt$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
> ...
browningh...@yahoo.com
You can buy cast bullets or cast them your self. The Lyman Cast
bullet manual gives you the procedures and the loadings.
Just remember never use slow burning rifle powder for reduced loads as
it can detonate and blow the rifle up like a grenade. This is not
meant to scare you out of using low power cast bullet loads especially
using pistol powders.
Although I usually use higher velocity cast bullet loads in the 1,500
to 1,800 range which would be too fast for want you are trying to
accomplish, one technique that I use will benefit you if you use very
low charges of powder. I put in 1 grain of polyester pillow fiber to
hold the powder against the primer even with my higher power loads, as
it prevents hang-fires and gives more consistent accuracy.
A Lyman "M" die will also bell the mouth of the case for you when
seating cast bullets but if you cannot afford the extra die just using
a tapered nail punch, as it will bell out the mouth of the case so you
will not damage the cast bullet when seating it.
Considering how cheap a good used .22 rimfire single shot rifle would
be at a local gun show, this is the route I would go rather than go to
all the trouble and expense of loading down reduced loads in a center
fire rifle. Even a used single shot shotgun would be the better way
to go as in the long run you will get more geese with a shotgun and
any rifle you would use. With the rifle you will get them only on the
ground but with the shotgun you will get them on the ground or in the
air. Just walking to were the birds are you will encounter them
flying over your head which the shotgun can bring down better than any
rifle will.
On Sep 29, 8:53 am, jacques...@gmail.com wrote:
> ...
nord...@yahoo.com
# that this is my only rifle and I need a load to minimize meat damage
# seeing that I need to take samples of the organs of the birds, but
# with the usual loads I tend to blow up my target. Any help will be
# apreciated. I have loaded with all kinds of bullet weights so dont
# hold back please.
Rocky Raab speaks of such a load here http://www.reloadingroom.com/page46.html
He uses 100 gr Speer half-jacket Plinkers but a 110 gr fmj roundnose
wouldn't damage as much meat as a soft at the same velocity. A fella
might even play with a military surplus 147-150 grain fmj spitzer over
Rocky's small charge of fast pistol powder and see if it offers enough
accuracy for your task.
haraoi...@yahoo.com
# birds especially Egyptian geese for research purposes.My problem is
# that this is my only rifle and I need a load to minimize meat damage
# seeing that I need to take samples of the organs of the birds, but
# with the usual loads I tend to blow up my target. Any help will be
# apreciated. I have loaded with all kinds of bullet weights so dont
# hold back please. Hope you guys can help. I am looking for something
# that will equal the .223 or perhaps smaller (if its possable).
#
The buckshot and 110 carbine bullet advice is good. I also cast 160grn
lead bullets from a LEE mold that works good with reduced loads. Cast
lead bullets are softer. This means they take less force to push our
the barrel. Cast lead will also swage better to obstruct the bore when
shot.
Others have advised use of a fast burning pistol powder. My favorite
reduced load powder for .30 caliber rifles is Red-Dot. It is usually
loaded in shotgun shells. Anywhere from 5-13 gains of this powder will
do the trick. With 5 grains behind a 00 buckshot (those are the .32
caliber ones, right?) will give me reasonable accuracy at 75 yards to
hit a paper dinner plate. For the longer lead bullets usually only the
higher velocities yield acceptable accuracy. I don't shoot too many of
the 110 grain bullets anymore. It is cheaper for me to cast my own.
Shorter bullets will stablize at lower velocities better from a barrel
that is ment to shoot longer bullets at higher velocities. When going
to lower velocities, going to a shorter bullet is one way to keep
accuracy. If you have access to 32 caliber pistol bullets, that may
give you another source of projectiles.
Someone else suggested using the Lyman cast bullet handbook. Here in
the US it is easy to get and has a wealth of information about useing
cast bullets and a large selection of powders for loads in the 1900 to
2000 fps range.
Montego19
## I use my 30-06 to hunt wild
# # birds especially Egyptian geese for research purposes.My problem is
# # that this is my only rifle and I need a load to minimize meat damage
# # seeing that I need to take samples of the organs of the birds, but
# # with the usual loads I tend to blow up my target. Any help will be
# # apreciated. I have loaded with all kinds of bullet weights so dont
# # hold back please.
I've loaded the Speer 100 grain plinker with 16 grains of SR4759. It's a
good small game load, not too loud and fairly accurate.
Jim Bianchi
# On Sep 29, 8:53 am, jacques...@gmail.com wrote:
# # Hi guys. Jacques here from South Africa. I use my 30-06 to hunt wild
# # birds especially Egyptian geese for research purposes.My problem is
# # that this is my only rifle and I need a load to minimize meat damage
# # seeing that I need to take samples of the organs of the birds, but
# # with the usual loads I tend to blow up my target. Any help will be
# # apreciated. I have loaded with all kinds of bullet weights so dont
# # hold back please. Hope you guys can help. I am looking for something
# # that will equal the .223 or perhaps smaller (if its possable).
Read the book "Unintended Conequences" in which John Ross (the
author) describes the experiences of one of his protagonists on safari in
Africa. The guy has at some birds (I forget their name, but they were large
game birds eminently suitable for food) roosting in a tree. Disdaining the
offer of his guide to secure a shotgun for him to use, he shoots three of
them with (what the guy considers) a "medium bore," a .375H&H. He'd been
testing his FOUR BORE double rifle on Rhino; next to that a .30-06 would
be a "small bore." Anyway, he got each of the three birds with head shots,
and the meat (body) was totally not damaged. I forget the exact range, but
if memory serves, it was at least 75 yards.
From what I understand, Ross's African segments in that book were
drawn from personal experience and are actually happened as stated. Aparantly
it CAN be done -- and a good .30-06 should be excellent for these purposes
no matter what kind of projectile is used.
Alternatively, I recall some 'sabot' hunting ammunition sold. I
*think* it was in .308, but that could well be the cal most used -- and
.30-06 might be avail also. The projectiles had plastic sabots around a .223
projectile. I've no information on current availability or calibers or if
they could be purchased as components for reloading. But they DID exist and
this may well be exactly what you want.
Al Patrick
#
# Alternatively, I recall some 'sabot' hunting ammunition sold. I
# *think* it was in .308, but that could well be the cal most used -- and
# .30-06 might be avail also. The projectiles had plastic sabots around a .223
# projectile. I've no information on current availability or calibers or if
# they could be purchased as components for reloading. But they DID exist and
# this may well be exactly what you want.
#
Google "Accelerator bullets"
Remington made some. I think they were 25 cal (? 25 gr.) in 30-06
casings. I think they are still available, though some have
protested their existence because the rifling is lost on the sabot.
haraoi...@yahoo.com
# birds especially Egyptian geese for research purposes.My problem is
# that this is my only rifle and I need a load to minimize meat damage
# seeing that I need to take samples of the organs of the birds, but
# with the usual loads I tend to blow up my target. Any help will be
# apreciated. I have loaded with all kinds of bullet weights so dont
# hold back please. Hope you guys can help. I am looking for something
# that will equal the .223 or perhaps smaller (if its possable).
#
Here is a website with some good info:
http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_topic.php?id=1387&forum_id=22
Natman
wrote:
#On Mon, 1 Oct 2007 14:24:10 +0000 (UTC), haraoi...@yahoo.com wrote:
# Alternatively, I recall some 'sabot' hunting ammunition sold. I
#*think* it was in .308, but that could well be the cal most used -- and
#.30-06 might be avail also. The projectiles had plastic sabots around a .223
#projectile. I've no information on current availability or calibers or if
#they could be purchased as components for reloading. But they DID exist and
#this may well be exactly what you want.
Remington used to offer "Accelerator" rounds in IIRC, 308, 30-06 and
30-30. It appears that the 308 and 30-06 loads are no longer
available, although the 30-30 load is still listed.
The problem with Accelerator loads is that in 30-06 they drove a 55
grain .224 bullet at 4000+ feet per second. They are designed to blow
varimints into lots of little pieces and would have exactly the same
effect on game birds.
R.M.R.
308, 30-06 and 30-30.#It appears that the 308 and 30-06 loads are no
longer available, although the 30-30 load is still listed.
grain .224 bullet at 4000+ feet per second.#They are designed to blow
varimints into lots of little pieces and would have exactly the same
effect on game birds.
~~~~~
I don't know if they still produce them but they are listed on their
site under Ballistics.
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/printable_version.aspx?data=R30069
I never used them on game but have shot a few boxes in 30-06 and can
testify they do throw a jolt in your shoulder that once did put the
infamous half moon cut over my eyebrow. An eye opening experience for
sure. I was always amazed they had a loading in 30-30 seeing an
unaware person could easily load a mag full in a tube fed leaver gun
and have a 4th of July celebration go of in their hands...
Ray,
(Si vis pacem
para bellum) U.S.A.
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Natman
<para.n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
#Natman wrote:#Remington used to offer "Accelerator" rounds in IIRC,
#308, 30-06 and 30-30.#It appears that the 308 and 30-06 loads are no
#longer available, although the 30-30 load is still listed.
# > ...
#grain .224 bullet at 4000+ feet per second.#They are designed to blow
#varimints into lots of little pieces and would have exactly the same
#effect on game birds.
#
#
#~~~~~
#I don't know if they still produce them but they are listed on their
#site under Ballistics.
#http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/printable_version.aspx?data=R30069
#
#I never used them on game but have shot a few boxes in 30-06 and can
#testify they do throw a jolt in your shoulder that once did put the
#infamous half moon cut over my eyebrow. An eye opening experience for
#sure. I was always amazed they had a loading in 30-30 seeing an
#unaware person could easily load a mag full in a tube fed leaver gun
#and have a 4th of July celebration go of in their hands...
#
#Ray,
#
I looked again and found 30-06 Accelerators on Remington's website,
load # R30069.
Are you saying the 30-06 loads had heavy recoil? That's a surprise.
oldpink
[...]
# I looked again and found 30-06 Accelerators on Remington's website,
#
# Are you saying the 30-06 loads had heavy recoil? That's a surprise.
Yeah, that raised my eyebrows, too.
Maybe he put the scope eyepiece against his eyebrow, then used the
traditional "artillery hold" (barely holding the forestock and pistol
grip) that break barrel airgunners use.
There is simply NO way that a 55 grain bullet, even coming out of the
..30-06 can have recoil comparable to a 150 grain or heavier .30 caliber
bullet coming out at standard hunting velocities.
--
And what exactly is a joke?
R.M.R.
a surprise.
~~~~~
Ah, I guess so. My loading of choice in my Winchester 70 is a 165gr
AccuTip or Core-Lokt and though the the energy Ft-lbs are considerably
higher than the 55gr Accelerator it seemed (and this is an uneducated
guess) the recoil from the Accelerator is straight back to the
shoulder with no or little energy absorbed into the rifle. Hope I said
that right but to me it seemed much sharper than those 165's I've shot
for years and why I still have a half a box laying around here
somewhere besides if I want to shoot an accurate .223 now some 25+
years later I'll use one of my .223's
Ray,
(Si vis pacem
para bellum) U.S.A.
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Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
# There is simply NO way that a 55 grain bullet, even coming out of the
# ..30-06 can have recoil comparable to a 150 grain or heavier .30 caliber
# bullet coming out at standard hunting velocities.
It appears that it might actually come pretty close to having the same
recoil. Using the Remington website, we see muzzle energy figures of
2033fpe for the accelerator load vs 2820fpe for a regular 150gr
hunting load. (for comparison, the 22-250 load is only 1654fpe).
An accelerator load would have a higher than normal recoil for it's
muzzle energy number because the amount of recoil is based on the
weight of *everything* that leaves the muzzle. Due to the large 30-06
cartridge case, an accelerator load would have a much heavier powder
charge than a normal 22 centerfire round. There is also the weight of
the sabot to consider.
John Cowart
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oldpink
# On Oct 4, 9:31 am, oldpink <misassist...@yahoo.com> wrote:
# # There is simply NO way that a 55 grain bullet, even coming out of the
# # ..30-06 can have recoil comparable to a 150 grain or heavier .30 caliber
# # bullet coming out at standard hunting velocities.
#
# It appears that it might actually come pretty close to having the same
# recoil. Using the Remington website, we see muzzle energy figures of
# 2033fpe for the accelerator load vs 2820fpe for a regular 150gr
# hunting load. (for comparison, the 22-250 load is only 1654fpe).
#
# An accelerator load would have a higher than normal recoil for it's
# muzzle energy number because the amount of recoil is based on the
# weight of *everything* that leaves the muzzle. Due to the large 30-06
# cartridge case, an accelerator load would have a much heavier powder
# charge than a normal 22 centerfire round. There is also the weight of
# the sabot to consider.
Yeah, I was aware that the powder charge was a significant part of the
equation with regards to recoil.
It's just that the combined weight of both bullet and sabot couldn't
possibly exceed even 70 grains, and since the powder charge won't be
greater than that used with more conventional bullet weights, a major
variable is less in that equation.
I know, having shot everything from 110 grain up to and including the
Hornady 220 grain Round Nose out of my .30-06, there is a significant
difference in felt recoil between even the 165 grain and the 220.
The Accelerator is propelling something that is not even half the weight
of the most common 150 grain '06 loads.
I stink at math, and I don't have the recoil formula in front of me, but
I just don't see how someone would be under the impression that the
Accelerator would recoil more than other loads.
Physics would seem to be against it.
As I said, I suspect that the main reason that the O.P. took a scope
eyepiece to the eyebrow was that he held the rifle very loosely, or put
his eye nearly against the scope itself.
After all, the .220 Swift propels its bullets only about 100fps more
slowly than the '06 Accelerator, and the one I shot was quite easy to
handle recoil wise.
The Accelerator is using more powder and a slightly heavier payload,
true, but I can't imagine the recoil would even approach that of a .30-30.
--
And what exactly is a joke?
.