Is reloading for me?
Tim McMahon
to shoot, or do I shoot to reload?"
I'm just getting back into shooting, and using factory reloads for
about $6.50 per box in .38 and $10.00 per box in .45. While I shoot
formal target style, I consider myself a plinker, not a competitor.
Furthermore, I'm not sure I really want to spend the time reloading,
notwithstanding the fact that I have a nice little toolroom in the
basement that would be just perfect.
I understand that:
a) I might get real fussy if I start getting serious again, and seek
to mold the perfect bullet.
b) There are many reasons to reload, and a lot of guys (c'mon, it is
almost entirely guys, right?) get into it for a lot of reasons.
But here's the bottom line - is it really that much cheaper to reload
than to buy affordable factory reload stuff? I'm guessing it could
actually get more expensive, if you really get the reloading bug.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Win a Fulton Armory "Liberator" AR-15 prize package in post-sunset
tactical configuration in the MPFO Rifle Raffle. Help the Cause at
the same time! Get all the details at http://www.myguns.net
------------------------------------------------------------------
Learn about rec.guns at http://www.recguns.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Clark Magnuson
You can buy 38 special for 10 cents a shot, if you shop around.
You can reload 38 special for 5 cents a shot, if you shop around.
My shpeal:
I got an RCBS Rockchucker kit and an RCBS Video, because I was
overwhelmed with how to get started reloading.
If I were to advise someone on how to do it that was a friend, I would
show him how, and then loan him enough stuff to do it at his home.
Telling someone how to do it on the internet, I would start out with the
tasks that have to be done, and list the cheap tools to get, so the the
guy can maintain a mental map of the goals:
38 Special [same die set and shell holder as 357 mag] is very easy and
cheap to load, most people have one, and the guns have mountains of
safety margin. They are a good place to start.
1) Get the old primer out of the case, called depriming or decapping.
2) Make the case small enough in inside diameter to grip a bullet and
small enough on the outside to fit in the chamber. This is called resizing.
Both steps 1) & 2) are usually accomplished in one step as the resizing
die has a decapping pin. This will require:
a) Shell holder ~$3 Lee #1 shell holder or ~$5 RCBS #6 shell holder.
The same size shell holder can be used later for 357 mag, 256 Win mag, etc.
b) A resizing die. This die will probably be bought in a kit with one,
two, or three other dies. In straight wall cartridges, carbide resizing
dies are available at an extra cost. It is always worth the extra to get
carbide. Adjust the die [how far to screw it into the press] per the
instructions that come with the die set.
Lee 3 die set for 38 special; $21 steel, $23 carbide
RCBS 3 die set for 38 special: $36
c) A press. Lee Reloader press $20 is a real cheapee, but will always
find a use. RCBS Rockchucker $90 is a workhorse of the highest quality.
3) Clean the case. This step can be done with a couple twists of the
wrist with steel wool, or expensive vibrators. Later when you get more
tools, you will clean the primer pocket, but it is not needed.
4) Re prime the case.
a) One can buy a priming tool and do it in 2 seconds or fumble with the
primer built into RCBS presses and do it 10 seconds.
Lee Auto prime II $13, RCBS priming tool $26
The two tools I mentioned use the same shell holder as used above in
resizing. Beware that Lee also sells another priming system ["Lee auto
prime" not "Lee auto primer II"] that uses special shell holders. I
would avoid that system to start.
b) One must also buy, beg, borrow, or steal new primers.
To buy them mail order, one would have to pay a Hazardous Materials
charge [Haz Mat]. Small purchases would be too expensive. Usually 100
primers can be purchased for $1 or $2 at the local gun store. Primers
come in combinations of being; magnum or standard, pistol or rifle, and
large or small. For 38 special, small pistol primers are what is needed,
and will work with standard or magnum, but most published loads with be
with standard primers.
5) Fill the case with powder. This is called charging the case. For this
one will need powder and a way to measure powder. With black powder, one
just fills the case, but with smokeless powder too much powder will fit.
Start out using smokeless powder and measuring it. The amount to use
depends on the bullet that will be used. The amount is published in load
books, or better still on powder manufacturer's web sites for free.
a) Buy powder. There is the Haz Mat problem again, so off to the
neighborhood gunstore. Any "pistol powder" will do. Expect to pay ~$20
for a pound in a gunstore. I like Bullseye or Unique powder made by
Alliant, but AA#2 or AA#5 work just as well made by Accurate Arms, or
Winchester 231, or Hodgdon HS-6, or Vihtavuori 3N37, or IMR SR7625, or
dozens of others.
b) Measure the powder. This can be done with cheap plastic measuring
cups with handles from Lee, but I would start out weighing the powder.
The weighing scales: Lee Perfect powder measure $20, RCBS Uniflow Powder
measure $60 [this tool is really nice]
6) Install the bullet. This is called seating the bullet.
a) Buy bullets. For 38 special, .357" diameter or .358" bullets are
normally used. You can buy lead bullets or lead bullets covered with
copper called jacketed bullets. I would start out with jacketed bullets.
These will cost you 5 to 15 cents each and usually bought in 100's.
b) The seating die should have come in the reloading die kit. Put it in
the press and put the primed and charged case in the shell holder. Set
the bullet on top of the case and raise the ram [push down on the press
lever]
c) Measure the over all length of the cartridge [OAL]. This can be done
with a ruler, but is best done with dial calipers. Expect to pay $20 for
some Chinese calipers or $100 for American.
7) Crimp the case into the bullet. This means the case must pinch the
bullet so hard that recoil will not yank the bullet out when other
chambers of the revolver are fired [or so the bullet will not get shoved
deeper into the case from recoil in magazine or tube fed cartridge]. The
type of crimp depends on the type of cartridge. The rimmed 38 special
case should be roll crimped. The rimless 9mm cartridge should be taper
crimped. The crimping step can be done in one step with the bullet
seating, but I would start out doing it in two separate steps. The two
steps look the same [cartridge goes into seating die], but can be
different in how the seating die is adjusted. Again, adjust the die [how
far to screw it into the press] per the instructions that come with the
die set and with the seating die, there is also the adjustment of the
seating stem [knurled knob on top of the die].
8) Take notes when you shoot your handloads. Write on the targets.
Things like "125 gr. bullets shot way low, but 158 gr. bullets were
right on." will come in handy next time you sit down to reload or buy
bullets.
>From the above it looks like it will cost $110 to get started.
That is 1/3 of what it cost ME to get started.
There are more steps to loading a bottle shaped rifle cartridge, and
even more to get them to be very accurate, but after one masters the 38
special, it will make more sense.
Larry L. Taylor
"Tim McMahon" <> wrote in message news:ci383o$rff$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
> ...
You don't have to be a competitior to justify reloading. You may not even
have to shoot that much - it's a fun pastime and there a degree of
satisfaction to be derived from 'rolling your own'.
> ...
Best thing to do might be to locate somebody (perhaps thru the range you
shoot at?)
and participate in a reloading session or two to get the feel of it.
> ...
Casting your own bullets is only one small aspect. There is definately
no reward in that in terms of time spent, given all the options and the
availability
or cheap bullets.
> ...
Given that I can reload .45 for about $4.50 a box, you can be the judge
of whether it would be cost effective for the number of rounds you plan to
shoot
> ...
codemaan
"Tim McMahon" <tmcm...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ci383o$rff$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
> ...
Do the math yourself. I purchase primers at $15 per thousand, powder at
$14 per pound and lead pistol bullets for $45 per thousand. Once fired 38
special brass goes for $37 per thousand and one could probably get 25
reloads from it before it splits. Bottom line is it cost you roughly
about half to reload rather than buying the generic stuff off the shelf. In
most calibers and not the bulk military stuff from overseas.
> ...
JoeA
Yep, it sure takes time. If you aren't really sure that you want to
do it, then best stay away.
JoeA
SelwayKid
> ...
Tim
Several years ago, I got out my pencil, sharpened it several times in
the thought process and came up with what I think are some pretty
strong numbers.
I bought a Dillon 650XL primarily for 45acp. It was a joint venture
with a friend who has several calibers who planned to go the extra
costs for tool heads, etc. We got all the extras for production of
quality ammo with a minimum of fuss and bother. After all, we wanted
to make ammo and not sit there arguing about relative merits of this
vs that. We spent about $1200 for all the equipment, whistles and
shell heads, etc, etc.
5000 rounds was a break even point for us including the cost of the
machine, accessories, powder, primers, bullets, brass. After that it
was a matter of the disposable cost of powder, primers, bullets,
brass. Since we could reload the 45acp brass in excess of 50 times,
that became a non factor in my eyes. In essence, for a very fast
progressive loader, i.e., the 650XL, all ammo loaded after the initial
5000 rounds was loaded for cost of the combustible components and
brass. As I recall, it came out to about 4 1/2 cents per round. If you
do much shooting at all it is well worth while and certainly with the
lower priced models from Dillon your initial investment can be much
lower. I found reloading to be so much cheaper than factory I started
reloading my ammo long about 1957.
OL Shy & Bashful
> ...
Ken Marsh
Tim McMahon <tmcm...@verizon.net> wrote:
#But here's the bottom line - is it really that much cheaper to reload
#than to buy affordable factory reload stuff? I'm guessing it could
#actually get more expensive, if you really get the reloading bug.
"Depends".
If you're shooting lots of hardball 9mm or 55gr .223, no, it is cheaper
to buy factory. For nice 223 varmint loads, you can break even or
save a little, but tune the accuracy for your rifle.
For 38 Special, you can definitely save money versus factory premium
loads or FMJ hardball, you can save a little bit versus buying case
quantities of lead target loads at bulk prices.
For .45ACP, oh yeah, you can save money. 308Win, 30-06, 7mmRemMag,
300WinMag, etc. you can save big money AND have a much more accurate
load.
Ken.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mail: kmarsh at charm dot net | Close the VT SVC Ctr boondoggle and
WWW: http://www.charm.net/~kmarsh | return services to local CIS offices!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul W. Ross
.38/.357, 9mm, and .45ACP. I didn't shoot the centerfires as much as I
wished because of ammo costs.
The .38SPL is pretty straight forward. I got a pile of old wheel
weights, broke out the Colman camp stove, and went to it. Cast up
about 500 bullets one afternoon, which will hold me for while.
I did find that with a little experimentation, that I could produce a
.38SPL target load that was MUCH more accurate than any commercial
reloads, etc. The time involved is MUCH more productive than watching
TV!
I think 9mm might be marginal, but they are easy. I'm still fooling
around with .45ACP to get ones that function reliably - feed issues
with a SWC, etc.
WELL worth the effort.
John Davies
components in large quantities. You can save a significant amount of
$$, as others have pointed out.
If you don't shoot very much, the only reason to reload is to develop
your own loads or for pleasure. It takes a lot of reloaded ammo to
save enough to pay for the equipment.
John, who reloads for pleasure
John Davies TLCA 14732
http://home.comcast.net/~johnedavies/
'96 Lexus LX450
'00 Audi A4 1.8T quattro
Spokane WA USA
Chuck Bridgeland
# There was an amusing post a couple of months ago asking "Do I reload
# to shoot, or do I shoot to reload?"
#
# I'm just getting back into shooting, and using factory reloads for
# about $6.50 per box in .38 and $10.00 per box in .45. While I shoot
# formal target style, I consider myself a plinker, not a competitor.
If you reload, cost per box for consumables will be about half that, and you
will shoot more.
The rub comes when you factor in your time (or try to cover the expense of a
progressive press).
--
"like a Rattus norvegicus in a hive of naked mole rats."
Chuck Bridgeland, chuckbri at computerdyn dot com
http://www.essex1.com/people/chuckbri
Doug McKay
or bolt action rifles. I'll probably reload for .45ACP now that I've
got a 1911A1. But the problem with semiautos is that at an door range
they often eject the brass out into the lane where it's not
retrievable. So the cost savings diminish with the lost brass. Also,
this Springfield GI seems to be a bit hard on brass.
My setup is most Redding stuff. I've got the Boss press. I see that
now they have a larger version, called the Big Boss. Available at
Sportsman's Warehouse, I noticed this weekend.
http://www.redding-reloading.com/
Doug McKay
"The next time someone tells you that the militia referred to in the
Second Amendment has been "superceded" by the National Guard, ask them
who it was that prevented United Airlines Flight 93 from reaching its
target."
- Randy E. Barnett -
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-barnett091801.shtml
http://www.randybarnett.com/
Christopher Pollard
buddies too. You won't get rich from it, but you can make enough so that you
shoot for free.
Out here in the Philippines, It costs around PHP3.50 - 4 per load ( that's for
pistol loads, 9mm, .40S&W or .45ACP). I make them for P5 per load.
Chris Pollard
--
CG Internet café, Tagum City, Philippines
http://www.cginternet.net
Dave Vick
Tim McMahon <tmcm...@verizon.net> wrote:
# (c'mon, it is almost entirely guys, right?)
50% of the reloaders in this household are women.
--
Dave Vick
NRA, MCRGO, MRPA
Tank: "So whaddya need... Besides a miracle?"
Neo: "Guns... Lots of guns."
John D.
for reloading...press paid off in a few hours. ;-)
John D.
Chuck Bridgeland <gn3...@news-central.giganews.com> wrote in message news:<ci5atn$st9$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>...
> ...
Paul W. Ross
other items I needed to round things out. Maybe $300 altogether. For
modest runs -- 100 rounds being typical for me, works just fine. I'm
sure I've broken even by this time.
Charles Winters
unless you are going to do a lot of shooting as in IPSC practice/competition
with hundreds of rounds per week. In which case you could invest in a
progressive press like the Dillon or Hornady LnL. You'd be better off
buying buying generic Winchester "white box" ammo by the case from grafs.com
and save yourself the aggravation. - CW
x"Tim McMahon" <> wrote in message
news:ci383o$rff$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# There was an amusing post a couple of months ago asking "Do I reload
# to shoot, or do I shoot to reload?"
#
# I'm just getting back into shooting, and using factory reloads for
# about $6.50 per box in .38 and $10.00 per box in .45. While I shoot
# formal target style, I consider myself a plinker, not a competitor.
#
# Furthermore, I'm not sure I really want to spend the time reloading,
# notwithstanding the fact that I have a nice little toolroom in the
# basement that would be just perfect.
#
x>
Michael J. Medley
That can be almost as fun as shooting.
John D.
pistols...no more lost brass.
John D.
gun_...@yahoo.com (Doug McKay) wrote in message news:<ci6k0v$hr8$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>...
> ...
Rick Courtright
# But here's the bottom line - is it really that much cheaper to reload
# than to buy affordable factory reload stuff? I'm guessing it could
# actually get more expensive, if you really get the reloading bug.
Hi,
As so many others have said, your component cost generally averages
about half of the cheaper ammo prices for pistol cartridges, even less
for larger rifle calibers. Two cartridges most will suggest can be
purchased as cheaply as reloading are 9mm and .223, due to all the
surplus and cheapo deals on imported ammo.
The cost of the rest of the equipment, even if you go top of the line,
amortizes itself out quite quickly, but I think I speak for many when I
say reloading allows you to shoot a lot more for the same price, in
which case, NO, you won't save ANY money! But that's not a bad thing.
Shoot to reload or vice versa? I think that's purely an individual
choice. When I shot trap competitively, and had to load 1000 or so
rounds per week, it was pure drudgery--a "job," if you will--for me, yet
others I knew loved to do it as a relaxing, therapeutic pastime. OTOH, I
love to load metallic ammo. Can't tell you why one's fun, the other not.
Maybe it's the "have to" factor?
If there's any chance you have a friend or range acquaintance who could
give you a short tour of the process, you'd probably be better able to
tell if this hobby is for you! And, as others have done, perhaps you can
share some expenses and equipment until you're set up on your own. Good
equipment will last you a lifetime, and it doesn't eat much or take much
room when it's not in use, so you don't have to worry about tripping
over the stuff when you're not shooting and loading as much.
Good luck in your decision!
Rick