M-1 Derivitives Gas System
peterw...@hotmail.com
M-14 rifle, a modification of the M-1, had a
different gas system with the port much further from the
muzzle and with other changes. I would think this was considered
an improvement. However, the Italians developed their
own modified M-1, the BM-59 I believe, similar to the M-14
in being chambered for the 7.62 mm NATO cartridge and in having
a detachable 20 round box magazine, but retaining the original
M-1 type gas system. As far as I know, both were satisfactory
in service.
With the benefit of hindsight, what are the pros and cons of
the two systems?
Thank you,
Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
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John Kepler
# The United States' M-1 rifle has a gas port just aft of the muzzle. The
# M-14 rifle, a modification of the M-1, had a
# different gas system with the port much further from the
# muzzle and with other changes. I would think this was considered
# an improvement. However, the Italians developed their
# own modified M-1, the BM-59 I believe, similar to the M-14
# in being chambered for the 7.62 mm NATO cartridge and in having
# a detachable 20 round box magazine, but retaining the original
# M-1 type gas system. As far as I know, both were satisfactory
# in service.
Please.....never confuse budgetary expedients with engineering advancement!
More dumb "engineering" has been forced by the bean-counters (use the Space
Shuttle as a "good" bad example) than any other cause! The Dagos had the
tooling for the M1 given to them, so staying within the design limitations
had huge economic incentives attached. To quote Lt. Cdr.(now Congressman)
Randy "Duke" Cunningham, "Any weapon system is like your wife....you LOVE
her good points and learn to live with her bad ones!". In the case of the
BM-59, the costs involved were more than enough "love" for the Italians to
saddle their troops with a largely obsolescent rifle!
#
# With the benefit of hindsight, what are the pros and cons of
# the two systems?
The White gas system (the one used on the M14) has several significant
advantages. The primary being the self-valving nature of the system making
it FAR less sensitive to variations in gas-port pressure.....meaning that
the rifle is far less "finicky" to the quality of the ammo being fed it! It
is also lighter, and less prone to "return to zero" issues that effect
accuracy.
John
Chris Morton
says...
#With the benefit of hindsight, what are the pros and cons of
#the two systems?
You understate the differences between the M1 and M14 gas systems.
The M1 has a long one piece operating rod, with the gas piston on one end and
the bolt handle on the other. A combination of heavy bullet and slow powder can
warp the op rod.
The M14 on the other hand has a separate short piston which impinges on the op
rod when it's driven to the rear by powder gases tapped into the gas cylinder.
The piston is also self-regulating, since the gas is tapped INSIDE the piston,
closing off the gas port when the piston travels to the rear.
The M14 is far more tolerant of ammunition variations, and less prone to damage.
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Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.
John Kepler
John
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Bart B.
of these service rifles; it's M1 and M14. Read the designation stamped
on the receiver hump.
Second, and a more direct answer... Around 1970, the US Navy converted
several 7.62mm NATO M1 rifles to accept the M14 magazine. These rifles
were then reworked similar to how the match grade ones were made.
Tests at 600 yards showed these M14 magazined Garands shot more
accurate than any bolt actioin sniper rifle the US Army or US Marines
had at the time. The USN proposed to the government that these
converted Garands be implemented as the standard service sniper rifle.
But alas, the US Army and US Marines were well into their M14 program
and looking at Remington 700s instead. I think it was this USN
conversion that spurred the development of the BM59 in Italy.
Chris Morton
#and looking at Remington 700s instead. I think it was this USN
#conversion that spurred the development of the BM59 in Italy.
The BM59 goes back to the mid to late 1950s, as an outgrowth of the license
built M1s made by Beretta.
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as54-e.htm
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Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.