Progressive press accuracy?
eric
stage? I worry about the play / tilt in the rotating head of the
progressive.
Thanks
Eric
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Chris Morton
#
#Do progressives produce as high of quality / concentric ammo as single
#stage? I worry about the play / tilt in the rotating head of the
#progressive.
I use a single stage for rifle. But then I trickle every powder charge for
rifle.
For pistol, I wouldn't have anything but a Dillon. With pistol powders, the
Dillon powder measure is the most consistent I've ever seen.
--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.
Jim Warren
"eric" <l...@family-net.net> wrote in message
news:c0u685$e1p$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
> ...
My progressive the base moves not the head. I load for fun shoots
like falling plates, bowling pins etc. If I were going for accuracey i.e.
small
groups I would use a single stage press. I don't trust the powder thrower on
my progressive.
I know I should use a ball powder and I will try the Winchester 731 (I think
that is the one Dillon recommened.
JBATC
#stage? I worry about the play / tilt in the rotating head of the
#progressive.
#Thanks
#Eric
Eric,
I can't speak for all progressive presses, but I can speak for Dillon's
Square Deal and 550 presses. They DO produce as high of quality ammo as a
single stage press.
I load 38 Special and 45 ACP pistol ammo for target shooting. And I load
223, 243, and 308 rifle ammo for target shooting. I have several Dillon
presses for various calibers, and they turn out ammo that is just as good as
what I produce with my single-stage RCBS Rock Chucker. And they do it at a
much faster rate. Once I have them set up the way I want them, they never
vary. Or at least they haven't varied in 10's of thousands of rounds.
Good Luck with your progressive press(es).
S4F
NRA Patron Life Member
NRA Certified Firearms Instructor
NAHC Life Member
Serious Plinker
J David Phillips
load up their ammo. There are also Marksmen Class Shooters who also
use progressive presses, and a lot more of us that are inbetween. In
my experience, in actuality, the press is one of the least important
parts of the loading process. Case preparation is a lot more
important than what I load it on. Next in importance are the dies
used, and how they are used.
I use a Dillon 550 press for most all of my reloading needs. I
'had' a Dillon 650 as well, but disposed of it, as I no longer felt I
needed it. I used the 650 mostly for handgun rounds, and at that it
excelled. For most rifle rounds, I prefer the 550. The 550 is a great
progressive press, and I can also use it as a turret press, or even a
'one lunger' if I so choose. Can't beat their warranty, as most of
the other companies have as well. Lifetime, theirs or yours, doesn't
matter.
J David
flm...@hotmail.com
codemaan
As far as I can tell for everyday shooting, the progressive reloaders are
ever bit as good as single stage presses... unless you are talking about the
ultra high power match grade/world class/long distance/ya-di-da-da shooting
events.
> ...
John Kepler
# 223, 243, and 308 rifle ammo for target shooting.
Sir, do you shoot Highpower-Service Rifle? If so, where do you generally
shoot? You see, I need a "gold" for my "Distinguished Rifleman" award, and
if you are loading for competition with a Dillon, then I stand a VERY good
chance of earning those ellusive points! I'm willing to travel ! Please,
continue to encourage others to emulate your loading habits, heck, ya'll
come to Camp Perry. Those of us that shoot real precision loads can always
use more "Dillon point-feeders"!
Precision shooting requires a precision load, and that's something a Dillon
doesn't make very well!
John
SelwayKid
are you going for records or what? Unless you load 100,000+ rounds, I
don't think its an issue for play/tilt. I loaded more than 100,000
with more than one progressive loader and the ammo was still better
than my shooting ability or any of the custom guns I was using.
I think if you are going for a bench rest record you would not be
posting this one!
Cheers and best regards
SelwayKid
> ...
Ken Marsh
eric <l...@family-net.net> wrote:
#Do progressives produce as high of quality / concentric ammo as single
#stage? I worry about the play / tilt in the rotating head of the
#progressive.
There was a good article in Precision Shooting a year or three ago, about
what it took to shim-up a Dillon 550 to get it up to benchrest press specs.
If you are serious about going this route, I would look it up.
Using a dial indicator I have measured the table tilt of my Hornady
ProJector loading handgun ammo. There is substantial compression and
tilt but most of this slop is taken-up on every stroke. Deflection is
about .007-9" more at the seating station with no other carts on the
table versus all table stations loaded. Putting more carts on the table
decreases tilt but increases compression. Putting a very hard or very
soft piece of brass on the table can mix things up a bit for the carts
opposite it.
What really matters is the variance, not the amount of slop. Running a
fully loaded table, variance runs around .002-.003", but can settle down
to .001-.0015" during long runs. This variance is directly reflected in
COAL, but can only be measured with an ogive tool, as bullet tip
variances run larger then the press variance.
Given these numbers, for handgun, the progressive will make ammo just as
good as a single stage. I have found the first and last to have slightly
different COAL then the rest, as having multiple carts on the rotary
table makes for a tiny bit of compression and/or tilting. However these
do not affect accuracy in any measurable way, and can be culled very
easily- just set them aside as you start and finish a batch.
For rifle, there is going to be some variation in ogive-measured COAL and
in eccentricity above and beyond what you get in a single stage press. Some
can manage this and find it acceptable, especially considering the volume
being reloaded.
If you give it a try, measure COAL (from the bullet ogive) when you load
a case singly and when you load it with the other stations full. Do the
same thing for eccentricity. See if the results are satisfactory to you.
Given that it is steel, moving parts, and off-center, there is no way to
avoid some spring deflection.
As for me, a progressive is fine for hunting and plinking rifle ammo. My
small bore varmint reloading style involves lots of partial press
strokes and cartridge rotations on bullet seating to minimize
eccentricity, and indexing the die in the press and measuring each case
eccentricity before starting resizing (as I index each case in the die
for its sizing). I suppose I could do all this on a progressive, but I
would just be using it as a single stage. Any benefit gained could be
duplicated by setting up two or more single stage presses.
All of this effort to manage concentricity only pays off for a very
accurate varmint or target rifle that can appreciate the difference.
Well, checking and culling the oddball way-eccentric cartridge will help
eliminate flyers from other rifles too, but that is the job of the
concentricity checker, not the press.
Ken.
--
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Doug White
In article <c123ts$lnm$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>, "John Kepler" <bigjo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
# And I load
## 223, 243, and 308 rifle ammo for target shooting.
#
#Sir, do you shoot Highpower-Service Rifle? If so, where do you generally
#shoot? You see, I need a "gold" for my "Distinguished Rifleman" award, and
#if you are loading for competition with a Dillon, then I stand a VERY good
#chance of earning those ellusive points! I'm willing to travel ! Please,
#continue to encourage others to emulate your loading habits, heck, ya'll
#come to Camp Perry. Those of us that shoot real precision loads can always
#use more "Dillon point-feeders"!
#
#Precision shooting requires a precision load, and that's something a Dillon
#doesn't make very well!
I believe the ammunition for the US Palma Team a number of years ago was
loaded on a Dillon. They used new cases, and the ammo was quite accurate
at 1000 yards. I don't even think they trimmed or weighed the cases
beforehand, so presumably you can do even better with soem additional
care.
I suspect that ammo (if done carefully) from a good progressive is quite
adequate to shoot Distinguished in Service Rifle. Benchrest quality it
isn't, but that wasn't the question. You need to match the bullet,
powder, primer & seating to your rifle, just the same as with a
single-stage press. If you spend the time you save practicing instead of
loading, I bet it will help your scores even more.
Asa
you are loading for competition with a Dillon, then I stand a VERY good chance
of earning those ellusive points! I'm willing to travel ! Please, continue to
encourage others to emulate your loading habits, heck, ya'll come to Camp
Perry. Those of us that shoot real precision loads can always use more "Dillon
point-feeders"!
Precision shooting requires a precision load, and that's something a Dillon
A Dillon press can produce match winning ammo. David Tubb uses a modified
550 to load all the ammo for himself and his kids. 11 Highpower championship
titles must mean that his ammo can't win matches.
#I believe the ammunition for the US Palma Team a number of years ago was
loaded on a Dillon.<
Ammo for the 1992 Palma match was loaded on Dillon presses, as was the US
Team's practice ammo for 1995. The loading sequence was modified slightly for
the ammo for the 1992 match (a powder charge indicator was installed on one of
the stations). Comments on the 1992 ammo were extremely positive, with most
non-US shooters indicating that it was some of the most accurate ammo they'd
ever shot.
#Benchrest quality it isn't, but that wasn't the question.<
A Dillon employee once wrote an article about loading benchrest ammo on his
550. He actually shot pretty well in the match - or at least about the same as
he would using his normal loading practices.
#I suspect that ammo (if done carefully) from a good progressive is quite
adequate to shoot Distinguished in Service Rifle.<
Nearly all of the ammo used to earn Badge #1604 was loaded using a Dillon
550. Brass was all Lake City, primers were all Winchester, projectiles were
all Sierra (some were factory seconds), and the powder was all surplus. In
order, rifles used were an M-1A (Gold EIC), an M-1 Garand (Silver EIC), and an
AR-15 (two Silver EICs). Time from first award to earning the Badge was five
years.
#If you spend the time you save practicing instead of loading, I bet it will
help your scores even more.<
I used to tell shooters "You can spend your time loading, or spend it
practicing. While you're loading, I'm practicing. See you at the match!"
Asa
Support the US Palma Team!
www.uspalma.com
Bart B.
# Ammo for the 1992 Palma match was loaded on Dillon presses, as was the US
# Team's practice ammo for 1995. The loading sequence was modified slightly for
# the ammo for the 1992 match (a powder charge indicator was installed on one of
# the stations). Comments on the 1992 ammo were extremely positive, with most
# non-US shooters indicating that it was some of the most accurate ammo they'd
# ever shot.
In early 1991, I helped the US Palma Team (as a former member) test
Sierra's prototype 155-gr. Palma bullet for a load to use for the 1992
International Palma Matches. One of our objectives was to use only
metered powder charges as the ammo would be loaded on a Dillon
progressive. Sever or eight of us ended up getting best accuracy with
about 45 grains of IMR4895.
Winchester had been tasked with making the cases. We wanted them to
use the same case forming dies (which are still boxed in storage at
the plant in East Alton, IL) used to make the famous WCC58 cases that
were (and still are) the most uniform .308 Win. cases ever made. But
they were too thin for Winchester's liability and legal issues, so a
thicker case was made. It took their production line four tries to
get the cases uniform enough in body and neck wall thickness for the
Palma Team's standards.
The guy whose businesses' loading room was to be used to make the ammo
had both his sons (and daughter too, I think) hand-chamfering some
300,000 case necks so bullets wouldn't have jacket material scraped
off when they were seated. Then the first of two Dillon 1050
progressive machines was set up to prime and uniform the necks of the
cases. Priming was easy to do using Federal 210M primers. A Lyman
die with neck expander was used to uniformly size the case necks to
give a medium tension on the .3084-in. diameter bullets.
A second Dillon 1050 progressive was set up to charge the primed cases
and seat bullets. An indicator was used to tell if the metered powder
charge was correct (visually, as well as one could see).
These two machines made all the ammo that was used in the 1991 Rocky
Mountain Palma Matches International Division and the 1992
International Palma Matches; both shot at the NRA Whittington Center
in Raton, NM. A single lot of powder was used, but several lots of
Federal primers were used. Each time a new lot of primers were used,
the ammo lot number would change. And some ammo lots shot better than
others; no doubt the primers' variance caused that. One box of twenty
rounds and a couple of sighters were taken to a local test range where
the business owner's Palma rifle was clamped in a machine rest to test
the ammo. That Model 70 with a 30-inch long, whippy barrel put 20
shots into 2.7 inches at 600 yards. That's benchrest quality.
All of which means progressive loaders can make accurate ammo. It's
which one and how it's set up and used that makes the difference.