Tumbler Composters?
Rev Chuck
also heard that you can make a drum composter as good as the $300
commercial units for less than $30.
I use nothing more than a wire bin ($10) with a half dozen PVC running
through ($15), drilled (1 hour's work) to increase air flow into the
pile's center. Banana peels take less than a month to vanish.
Carbon-nitrogen ratios? Doesn't make a real difference. Does it
matter that much if the compost takes one month or two? More important
is that you get your materials into the pile as they accumulate.
Larry wrote:
>
> Sorry if this subject has been covered here previously, I just discovered
> the gardening newsgroups. :)
>
> Does anyone have any experience using the rotating drum type of composters?
> I realize that the claim of "wonderfully sweet crumbly brown perfectly done
> compost in 14 days" is very likely an exaggeration, but I am curious as to
> whether these things actually work, even if it takes a month or so to reach
> the finished compost stage. Also, how critical is the proper mix of
> compost ingredients with this method of making compost?
>
> Larry
--
Creationism -- because the words are easier to spell.
Rev Chuck, Alt.Atheism #203, Ordained Reverend, ULC, 17 March, 1997.
Remove -REMOVE_THIS- from address to respond.
Larry
ntba...@globec.com.au
go ahead and buy one mate they all work like you say whether or not in 14 days
or so doesn't really matter, the system is just a convenient way of turning
compost like you would in a heap but not as hard a work and not as messy.
get some worms as well and get a farm going good fun.
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you'
<http://www.globec.com.au/~ntbandit/>
"old age and treachury will overcome youth and skill"
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Toni
success.
Rev Chuck
I wonder, though, if you couldn't dispense with the stand and axle
assemblies? Stuff the barrel with goodies, lay it on its side. Turn
it by rolling it with your foot, like a giant soccer ball.
Used, food-grade plastic barrels sell for about $20 in my area.
Michael Strickland wrote:
>
> On Sun, 7 Mar 1999 07:28:03 -0500, Eric D wrote:
>
> >I too have an interest in one of these units. What do they cost and where
> >is the best place to purchase one from?
>
> There are plans to build one from a 55 gallon drum. Check out
> http://www.rco.on.ca/factsheet/fs_ee01.html
>
> Later, Mike
> USDA Zone 7, Sunset Zone 32 (Villa Rica, GA)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> m.stri...@att.net
Rev Chuck
D'aphid wrote:
>
> I made one once from a 45 gal barrel, then went back to the pile.
> Biggest problem I had was finding a way to turn the barrel. When it
> was empty the barrel turned easily, but when half-full of compost it
> was hard to rotate -- a leverage problem. Maybe the manufactured ones
> have some means to aid turning. Anyone else have this problem?
>
> D'avid -- gardener
> Garden humor at:
> http://www.golden.net/~dhobson/
> Home of Soiled Reputations and the
> International Mad Gardeners Society
> Receive the "Daily Diary of the Mad Gardener" by e-mail
Glenna R. Chapman
of the materials you put in the composter will most affect your ability to
get compost faster. I compost primarily iris leaves, and they must be cut
up small or I might as well throw them on my "natural" compost pile. 14
days? Well, whose counting <smile>
Irislady in Colorado
Larry wrote in message --
>Does anyone have any experience using the rotating drum type of composters?
>I realize that the claim of "wonderfully sweet crumbly brown perfectly done
>compost in 14 days" is very likely an exaggeration, but I am curious as to
>whether these things actually work?
>
Eric D
>Does anyone have any experience using the rotating drum type of composters?
>I realize that the claim of "wonderfully sweet crumbly brown perfectly done
>compost in 14 days" is very likely an exaggeration, but I am curious as to
>the finished compost stage. Also, how critical is the proper mix of
>compost ingredients with this method of making compost?
I too have an interest in one of these units. What do they cost and where
is the best place to purchase one from?
Eric D
Karen
composters? SNIP>
********************************************
I have one that was given to me. I don't think they are worth the money.
If you put anything long in it the material become wrapped around the inside
cylinder. I suppose they might be worth it if you are in a situation like
an apartment and you can't have the compost laying exposed. I *never* got
compost in 14 days. I prefer a plain old wire cage or whatever. richey AT
bright DOT net
Michael Strickland
>I too have an interest in one of these units. What do they cost and where
>is the best place to purchase one from?
There are plans to build one from a 55 gallon drum. Check out
http://www.rco.on.ca/factsheet/fs_ee01.html.
Gary Cooper
> Sorry if this subject has been covered here previously, I just discovered
> the gardening newsgroups. :)
>
> Does anyone have any experience using the rotating drum type of composters?
> I realize that the claim of "wonderfully sweet crumbly brown perfectly done
> compost in 14 days" is very likely an exaggeration, but I am curious as to
> whether these things actually work, even if it takes a month or so to reach
> the finished compost stage. Also, how critical is the proper mix of
> compost ingredients with this method of making compost?
>
> Larry
>
The word on the street seems to be that they work, but except for the very
largest ones, they only do very small batches of compost at a time.
And yes, as with most garden-related stuff, most of the ads exaggerate
their virtues.
I think that no matter where you make your compost, the "proper mix of
ingredients" is a whole lot less critical than many would have you
believe. Pile up a lot of organic stuff, let it rot until it looks like
dirt, and you'll have something that is sure to make your soil better. The
rest is fine-tuning for various reasons, either to correct specific soil
problems or because someone has nothing better to do.
Gary
StEvE
bushelfuls of garden debris(including tree branches, prunings, leaves,
etc.) at a time. Then I just dump the organic matter in a large pile
and let it rot and decompose by itself. I don't turn it and I don't
till it in or add nitrogen or anything to it. Usually, the volume of
the pile will shrink to 1/4 of the original size in a few months without
me doing anything. I don't get true, finely decomposed compost this
way, but it's pretty darn close.
Personally, I really don't care about the 14-day timeline because I
think it's just a marketing ploy to get people to buy the expensive
compost tumblers. I have enough of space in my garden where my debris
pile can sit - for years if they want to. :-) On the other hand, if I
had more disposable income to burn, I probably wouldn't mind getting a
compost tumbler myself either. No matter what, it'll never be as
convenient as just dumping things onto a large pile and just let it rot
anaerobically.
Gary Cooper wrote:
>
> The word on the street seems to be that they work, but except for the very
> largest ones, they only do very small batches of compost at a time.
> And yes, as with most garden-related stuff, most of the ads exaggerate
> their virtues.
>
--
********************************************************
* Do NOT modify my e-mail address for correspondence.
* It is valid as stated.
********************************************************
D'aphid
Gary Cooper <big...@utdallas.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.3.96.99030...@infoserv.utdallas.edu...
>>
>The word on the street seems to be that they work, but except for the
very
>largest ones, they only do very small batches of compost at a time.
>And yes, as with most garden-related stuff, most of the ads
exaggerate
>their virtues.
>I think that no matter where you make your compost, the "proper mix
of
>ingredients" is a whole lot less critical than many would have you
>believe. Pile up a lot of organic stuff, let it rot until it looks
like
>dirt, and you'll have something that is sure to make your soil
better. The
>rest is fine-tuning for various reasons, either to correct specific
soil
>problems or because someone has nothing better to do.
>
>Gary
I made one once from a 45 gal barrel, then went back to the pile.
Rev Chuck
plastic drums are used to carry things like flour, spices, MSG,
what have you.
Nancy Milligan wrote:
>
> Where would you go to find those big plastic barrels?
>
> Rev Chuck wrote:
> >
> > Pretty slick looking.
> >
> > I wonder, though, if you couldn't dispense with the stand and axle
> > assemblies? Stuff the barrel with goodies, lay it on its side. Turn
> > it by rolling it with your foot, like a giant soccer ball.
> >
> > Used, food-grade plastic barrels sell for about $20 in my area.
--
Helen Kay
> Does anyone have any experience using the rotating drum type of composters?
> I realize that the claim of "wonderfully sweet crumbly brown perfectly done
> compost in 14 days" is very likely an exaggeration, but I am curious as to
> whether these things actually work, even if it takes a month or so to reach
> the finished compost stage. Also, how critical is the proper mix of
> compost ingredients with this method of making compost?
If you build a perfectly balanced binful of finely shredded material and
tumble it daily, the 14-day claim is not so much of an exaggeration. If
you're planning to use it for kitchen scraps and will therefore be putting
new material in each day, it will take longer (actual time depends a lot
on what's in there and what the weather is like--the contents will
decompose more quickly if the bin is in the sun, for example), and you'll
have to stop putting new stuff in in order to finish the compost at some
stage.
In my experience they are quicker than bins, and with the extra aeration
and drainage they seem to cope better with the sorts of mixes of
compostable material that a suburban household and garden produce,
producing less of a pong because of the aeration.
They're good for dealing with the debris from chicken runs and sheds and
I've also seen a "Gardening Australia" story in which they were used to
prepare food for large scale worm farms.
On the downside, they're much more expensive than the closed bins of
similar volume which I find very useful for household and small garden
scraps. If what you really want is a vermin-proof composting system and
speed is not a great concern, a Gedye-style bin might be preferable.
Helen.
sunflower
Helen Kay wrote in message ...
>On Sat, 6 Mar 1999, Larry wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have any experience using the rotating drum type of
composters?
If what you really want is a vermin-proof composting system and
>speed is not a great concern, a Gedye-style bin might be preferable.
>
>Helen.
>
"chook/chicken" terms? Or is it some specialized thing with whick I'm not
familiar?
Sunflower
Stephanie
>On Sat, 6 Mar 1999, Larry wrote:
>> Does anyone have any experience using the rotating drum type of composters?
I made my own out of a smaller metal trash can. I did not get great
results but then I am new at composting....also, depending on the wild
critter population in your area, you might try using large, thick
plastic bags, (such as what potting soil comes in). Fill it, tie it
shut, roll it around every now and then...oh and poke some holes in it
too. :-)
Stephanie
The kiss of the sun for pardon,
The song of the birds for mirth.
One is nearer God's heart in a garden
Than anywhere else on earth.
Dorothy Frances Gurney
Kitt
instructions someone here posted the link for
(www.rco.on.ca/factsheet/fs_ee01.html), and, though barrel sits in a
'cradle', it doesn't look to be easily rotated. Plus, the hinged door is
mighty small to get the compost out of. Once I subletted a house from a
friend and in the backyard she had one of those big geometric composting
balls you're supposed to load up and roll around like Sisyphus. I'm a
small woman, but I'm reasonably strong, and that thing, half full, would
not budge....
--
Kitt
D'aphid <dho...@golden.net> wrote in article
<7bveqb$cm5$1...@cougar.golden.net>...
Glenna R. Chapman
My compost tumbler was purchased in 1990. I dug out the original literature
and will try to answer a couple of questions for you.
The name of the company that makes the tumbler is Kemp in Penn.
You can e-mail me for exact address, if you want.
It was expensive then, I don't know what it costs now.
I'm not mechanical *at all*, but will try to describe the handle. And, yes a
handle is a must if you are going to make your own.
There is an axle and drive wheel assembly. The handle looks like a bent pipe
which fits into that assembly. In addition, the assembly can be locked - by
that I mean, after you have finished turning the tumbler --
you *lock* it, so that it doesn't roll back.
Need more info? I've got the old flyer close by.
Hope that helps
iris...@worldnet.att.net
>Larry wrote in message <7brvdn$m0f$1...@remarQ.com>...
>>Does anyone have any experience using the rotating drum type of
composters?
>
>
>I too have an interest in one of these units. What do they cost and where
is the best place to purchase one from?
>Eric D
>
>
Nancy Milligan
Helen Kay
> Helen, what is a "Gedye-style bin"? Is this another one of those
> "chook/chicken" terms? Or is it some specialized thing with whick I'm not
> familiar?
Oops. Sorry.
"Gedye bins" are one of the more popular brands of compost bin sold in
Australia. They're made of uv-resistant heavy plastic, and come in two
sizes (I forget the volumes). They're open to the earth at the base and
are narrower at the top, and the lid fits tightly so that flies can't get
in. They sell for around A$60.
Helen.
madhouse
exaggerate their virtues. I am facinated by this phenomenon. Of course
all advertising puffs, it's expected, but why has gardening promotion
developed to such a level, where you have to automatically say, okay,
that over the top.
The tree tomato comes to mind. Eucalyptus at the turn of the century,
roses, tomatoes... Anything in a Michigan Bulb flyer...
I know we gardeners are dreamers, and I know that except for those of us
in the sunbelt, we need to dream the better part of the year, but I
don't understand the unique excesses of gardening ads.
It's like what used to appear on the last page of comic books, "throw
your voice" "Authentic bird calls"
What is different about gardening stuff, or gardeners, or is it
different?
mh
Zhanataya
madhouse wrote:
Gardening advertisements is where budding journalists go to hone their
creative writing skills, and to test the boundaries of literary license. :-)
Zhanataya
Never kick a cow chip on a hot day.
Kelly
only way to go. I have one pile approximately 10' x 20' x 5', to start
with and before I'm ready next season the pile has reduced itself to 10' x
20' x 2.5'. I have enough room that I usually have the ready to use pile
and the ready for next season pile. The majority of the material that goes
into my mulch piles are dry black oak, live oak leaves and small shredded
branches. Very little green material until the garden is ready for
harvesting and that's not much. My garden is raised and in containers to
keep the gophers away with 100% compost for the growing medium.
Also, by leaving it on the ground it allows all them tiny critters to get
in and break it down into compost.
Kelly in Calif.
StEvE <nospa...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
<36E2D9C2...@earthlink.net>...
> I have an 10-HP MTD chipper/shredder. With it, I can grind up
> bushelfuls of garden debris(including tree branches, prunings, leaves,
> etc.) at a time. Then I just dump the organic matter in a large pile
> and let it rot and decompose by itself. I don't turn it and I don't
> till it in or add nitrogen or anything to it. Usually, the volume of
> the pile will shrink to 1/4 of the original size in a few months without
> me doing anything. I don't get true, finely decomposed compost this
> way, but it's pretty darn close.
>
> Personally, I really don't care about the 14-day timeline because I
> think it's just a marketing ploy to get people to buy the expensive
> compost tumblers. I have enough of space in my garden where my debris
> pile can sit - for years if they want to. :-) On the other hand, if I
> had more disposable income to burn, I probably wouldn't mind getting a
> compost tumbler myself either. No matter what, it'll never be as
> convenient as just dumping things onto a large pile and just let it rot
> anaerobically.
>
>
> Gary Cooper wrote:
> >
> > The word on the street seems to be that they work, but except for the
very
> > largest ones, they only do very small batches of compost at a time.
> > And yes, as with most garden-related stuff, most of the ads exaggerate
> > their virtues.
> >
>
Joe Halpin
>
> I agree, if you have the room to just pile it up and let it be, it's the
> only way to go. I have one pile approximately 10' x 20' x 5', to start
> with and before I'm ready next season the pile has reduced itself to 10' x
> 20' x 2.5'. I have enough room that I usually have the ready to use pile
> and the ready for next season pile. The majority of the material that goes
> into my mulch piles are dry black oak, live oak leaves and small shredded
> branches. Very little green material until the garden is ready for
> harvesting and that's not much. My garden is raised and in containers to
> keep the gophers away with 100% compost for the growing medium.
>
> Also, by leaving it on the ground it allows all them tiny critters to get
> in and break it down into compost.
What's the consensus here about using stuff like rabbit manure in
compost piles? I've been told that it shouldn't be used at all on
one hand, and that it's great as long as it composts for a year or
so on the other.
Joe
--
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work.
I want to achieve immortality through not dying. - Woody Allen
Nancy Milligan
Food/Herbal business. Everyone is looking for the magical thing that
does or cures it all.
Bill Morgan
<laru...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Gary says " as with most garden-related stuff, most of the ads
> exaggerate their virtues. I am facinated by this phenomenon. Of course
> all advertising puffs, it's expected, but why has gardening promotion
> developed to such a level, where you have to automatically say, okay,
> that over the top.
[]
One reason is that results vary widely in gardening. So you use the strange
gizmo or spray on the snake oil and maybe you'll get a good result. It may
have nothing to do with the product, but this situation is custom-made for
the testimonial advertisment. And in the hands of any salescreature, that's
the ticket for more sales...
Regards,
Bill
--
Center for Room Temperature Confusion
Christopher L. Weeks
>
> What's the consensus here about using stuff like rabbit manure in
> compost piles? I've been told that it shouldn't be used at all on
> one hand, and that it's great as long as it composts for a year or
> so on the other.
I'm not an expert, but as I understand it, the excretia of any animal
can be used so long as it goes through a hot composting process. If
you're just moldering it (like composting toilets often do) then it
takes ages and ages (years) to be safe and it will never be as safe as
something that gets to 130-150F or so.
Any corrections?
--
Sincerely,
Christopher L. Weeks
central Missouri, USA
Christopher L. Weeks
>
> I think it's the same kind of thing that surrounds the Health
> Food/Herbal business. Everyone is looking for the magical thing that
> does or cures it all.
Yeah, I guess they wouldn't sell very much if they said "yeah, our
product can really help you, but to tell the truth gardening is going to
require good old fashioned hard work no matter what you buy."
Gary Cooper
> ...
> What's the consensus here about using stuff like rabbit manure in
> compost piles? I've been told that it shouldn't be used at all on
> one hand, and that it's great as long as it composts for a year or
> so on the other.
>
> Joe
Rabbit manure is great for compost, assuming you're not in South America.
A friend who worked on an economic development project in Bolivia told me
that there raising rabbits is a somewhat dangerous occupation, because the
rabbit droppings attract a small insect whose bite transmits (to humans) a
very serious parasitic disease. As far as I know, this is not a problem on
other continents.
Gary
> -- > I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. > I want to
achieve immortality through not dying. - Woody Allen
>
Yeah, lots of luck there, Woody.
Nancy Milligan
first starting out. But my well-tuned streak of skepticism is
beginning to assert itself in the area of gardening. And I really
have to thank newsgroups like this one for the sharing of opinions and
ideas for getting me through that period of newbie gullability. I
mean, I've actually made it through my first year and a half of
gardening without ever once buying anything Jerry Baker was selling!
(Though I almost did get hooked on that one).
Nancy M.
Gary Cooper
> I confess I've been as much a sucker as anyone, especially when I was
> first starting out. But my well-tuned streak of skepticism is
> beginning to assert itself in the area of gardening. And I really
> have to thank newsgroups like this one for the sharing of opinions and
> ideas for getting me through that period of newbie gullability. I
> mean, I've actually made it through my first year and a half of
> gardening without ever once buying anything Jerry Baker was selling!
> (Though I almost did get hooked on that one).
>
> Nancy M.
>
Speaking (as we were) of stuff that looks like ads in the back of comic
books, I got one of Jerry Baker's "Gardening for Life" catalogs in the
mail (unsolicited, believe me!) this week. I haven't seen such a
hodgepodge of stuff in a long time. Some of it's probably legitimate, more
of it's probably useless, flimsy, overpriced, or some combination thereof.
It's not as amusing as the ads I keep getting for his newletter -- the one
where he promises to tell you how putting birth control pills, scotch,
camembert cheese, and fruit loops on your garden will make it grow better.
Gary
Jon Davis
> and drainage they seem to cope better with the sorts of mixes of
> compostable material that a suburban household and garden produce,
> producing less of a pong because of the aeration.
What is pong?
--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > > To reply, remove NO & SPAM from my email address < < <
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Bill Morgan
<Pine.GSO.3.96.990310...@infoserv.utdallas.edu>, Gary
Cooper <big...@utdallas.edu> wrote:
> >
> Speaking (as we were) of stuff that looks like ads in the back of comic
> books, I got one of Jerry Baker's "Gardening for Life" catalogs in the
> mail (unsolicited, believe me!) this week. I haven't seen such a
> hodgepodge of stuff in a long time. Some of it's probably legitimate, more
> of it's probably useless, flimsy, overpriced, or some combination thereof.
> It's not as amusing as the ads I keep getting for his newletter -- the one
> where he promises to tell you how putting birth control pills, scotch,
> camembert cheese, and fruit loops on your garden will make it grow better.
So his idea is that he uses his garden as a dumping ground for everything
left over from his last date? Not to let anything go to waste, you know.
Hey, I saw the guy live on TV a couplea daze ago. I was channel surfing,
and there he was on a PBS pledge break for one of the Michigan affiliates.
That was the *Destroit* affiliate, not the East Lansing, I'm happy to say.
Gardening in Michigan: Can you spot the highs and the lows?
Southmeadow Nursery
Oikos Tree Crops
Jerry Baker
Meijer Gardens
Michigan Bulb
Dow Gardens
Michigan State Universe/City (soon to be a cube 1.5 miles on a side)
Pat Kiewicz
Well, I guess we still have more going for us than against...
arron
> > ...
> > What's the consensus here about using stuff like rabbit manure in
> > compost piles? -----
>
> -----, assuming you're not in South America.
> A friend who worked on an economic development project in Bolivia told me
> that there raising rabbits is a somewhat dangerous occupation, because the
> rabbit droppings attract a small insect whose bite transmits (to humans) a
> very serious parasitic disease. As far as I know, this is not a problem on
> other continents.
>
> Gary
>
> > -- > I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. > I want to
> achieve immortality through not dying. - Woody Allen
> >
> Yeah, lots of luck there, Woody.
No problem in Malaysia too,
So far have not heard of any one falling ill because
of what u described
Rabbits are raised here for their meat
They are used for making 'Satay'
Inch meat skewed on wooden splinters, seasoned
and BBQ-ed. To be dipped in Peanut sauce.
'Satay of lamb, beef and chicken is very nice,
but for me rabbit satay is too strong in taste!
(love bamboo shoot)
Helen Kay
> > In my experience they are quicker than bins, and with the extra aeration
> > and drainage they seem to cope better with the sorts of mixes of
> > compostable material that a suburban household and garden produce,
> > producing less of a pong because of the aeration.
>
> What is pong?
a strong and unpleasant smell
(aren't we learning a varied lot of new words this week?)
He;en.
Pat Kiewicz
wtmo...@pilot.msu.edu says...
>
>Gardening in Michigan: Can you spot the highs and the lows?
>
>Southmeadow Nursery
>Oikos Tree Crops
>Jerry Baker
>Meijer Gardens
>Michigan Bulb
>Dow Gardens
>Michigan State Universe/City (soon to be a cube 1.5 miles on a side)
...don't forget the more remote MSU facilities, like Hidden Lake Gardens
(particularly for it's Primrose Path, dwarf conifers, and the collection of
fuchsias in the cool greenhouse).
And let's be generous, the arboretum connected with that other famous
Michigan University has some merit, too...
>Pat Kiewicz
*blush*
And if I didn't make it a point to read all of your posts, Bill...
And in the interest of laying praise where praise is due, I'd like to make
mention (as a local Michigan treasure) Graye's Greenhouse. Not a high-volume
business, but interesting varieties at generous prices, grown with love.
The old Mrs. is a real gem.
>
>Well, I guess we still have more going for us than against...
And since folks are speaking of exaggerated garden claims, I saw the
*worst* 'tool' set being hawked last night, some devices that you stick
in an electric drill to cultivate/dig holes. The demonstrations
were ludicrous! The quality was so poor that the bits wobbled like
crazy. Despite the 'markings to help you plant bulbs at the proper
depth' the tulip bulbs dropped into the holes didn't even manage to
be completely buried! Absolute rubbish...
--
Pat in Plymouth MI
"The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance."
Robert R. Coveyou
******************NOTICE******************************
To reach my personal mailbox, put the letter
'p' in front of the 'kiewicz' in my e-mail address
Gary Cooper
On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Jon Davis wrote:
> > In my experience they are quicker than bins, and with the extra aeration
> > and drainage they seem to cope better with the sorts of mixes of
> > compostable material that a suburban household and garden produce,
> > producing less of a pong because of the aeration.
>
> What is pong?
>
It's a video game from the 1970s. My compost heap keeps getting clogged up
with the darn things.
Gary
Gary Cooper
On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Bill Morgan wrote:
> ...
> Gardening in Michigan: Can you spot the highs and the lows?
>
> Southmeadow Nursery
> Oikos Tree Crops
> Jerry Baker
> Meijer Gardens
> Michigan Bulb
> Dow Gardens
> Michigan State Universe/City (soon to be a cube 1.5 miles on a side)
> Pat Kiewicz
>
> Well, I guess we still have more going for us than against...
>
> Regards,
> Bill
>
I assume that the Michigan Bulb Co. and J.B. are among the "lows," and our
friend Pat Kiewicz would surely be a plus, but I don't know about the
others...
Gary
Texas
Pat Kiewicz
big...@utdallas.edu says...
Can't vouch for Southmeadow Nursery, but as regards the others, they are
all worth a stop-by if you're in the area. (Though based on Bill's
description, I guess I'd better get back to see what's happened to the MSU
campus recently. There are some particular trees I'd like to visit again.)
Took some Hort classes while I was at MSU. Still have a Hoya that I filched
as a cutting from one of the greenhouses and a Sanseveria that I grew from a
legitimate cutting in class. Oh yeah, there's also a Stapelia that
accidentally dropped a piece into my book bag. (Wow, those plants are OLD!!)
Bill Morgan
(Pat Kiewicz) wrote:
> In article <wtmorgan-ya02408000R1003992200150001@msunews>,
> wtmo...@pilot.msu.edu says...
> >
> >Gardening in Michigan: Can you spot the highs and the lows?
> >
> >Southmeadow Nursery
> >Oikos Tree Crops
> >Jerry Baker
> >Meijer Gardens
> >Michigan Bulb
> >Dow Gardens
> >Michigan State Universe/City (soon to be a cube 1.5 miles on a side)
>
> ...don't forget the more remote MSU facilities, like Hidden Lake Gardens
> (particularly for it's Primrose Path, dwarf conifers, and the collection of
> fuchsias in the cool greenhouse).
Oh, yeah. I've been there a few times. Wonderful place. Nice hiking trails,
too. Down there in the Irish Hills (an old glacial moraine), so there are
kettlehole ponds, hills and valleys. A few bucks to get in, but worth it
now and again.
> And let's be generous, the arboretum connected with that other famous
> Michigan University has some merit, too...
I've never seen it, but from all accounts, it is very good.
Does the other other major Michigan U have any such that you know of? Or
the minor ones with directional names? Anything that might be worth a trip
from Lansing, or worth seeing if you're going that way anyway?
> >Pat Kiewicz
> *blush*
I meant that as one of the good points. There are a lot of experienced and
well-informed people in this group. But as I am a transplant from another
place, I find it very useful to hear from an experienced gardener from only
a couple of hours away, if that. I grew up in Sunset zone 1. Zone 41 is a
bit different. Of course, I'm not sure Plymouth *is* in Z 41, or if it is
close enough to the "6th Great Lake" to have a slightly different climate.
But whatever the case, Lansing is sure more like Plymoth than it is like
anywhere else I've evere gardened.
I used to like hearing from Jeff Ochs from K'zoo too. All that seasonal
update stuff. Haven't seen it in a while. Does anyone know if he's still
around?
> And in the interest of laying praise where praise is due, I'd like to make
> mention (as a local Michigan treasure) Graye's Greenhouse. Not a high-volume
> business, but interesting varieties at generous prices, grown with love.
> The old Mrs. is a real gem.
Hey, where is that?
> >
> >Well, I guess we still have more going for us than against...
>
> And since folks are speaking of exaggerated garden claims, I saw the
> *worst* 'tool' set being hawked last night, some devices that you stick
> in an electric drill to cultivate/dig holes. The demonstrations
> were ludicrous! The quality was so poor that the bits wobbled like
> crazy. Despite the 'markings to help you plant bulbs at the proper
> depth' the tulip bulbs dropped into the holes didn't even manage to
> be completely buried! Absolute rubbish...
I've seen that. Rubbish! Like people can't figure out how to plant w/o that
kind of stuff. Sure, I use garden tools, but I have done plantings with a
pointed stick...or just my bare hands.
Bill Morgan
Gary Cooper <big...@utdallas.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Bill Morgan wrote:
>
> > ...
> > Gardening in Michigan: Can you spot the highs and the lows?
> >
> > Southmeadow Nursery
> > Oikos Tree Crops
> > Jerry Baker
> > Meijer Gardens
> > Michigan Bulb
> > Dow Gardens
> > Michigan State Universe/City (soon to be a cube 1.5 miles on a side)
> > Pat Kiewicz
> >
> > Well, I guess we still have more going for us than against...
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bill
> >
> I assume that the Michigan Bulb Co. and J.B. are among the "lows,"
Give that man a prize. He got the answer right!!!
> and our
> friend Pat Kiewicz would surely be a plus, but I don't know about the
> others...
Everything but the two you spotted are to be considered as positives.
But when the most reviled garden supply company in the history of the
universe has your state's name in the title...
When the man who is widely regarded as a snake oil salesman is from your
state's most well-known city...
...you have to let people know that there *are* highlights from your state..
Bill Morgan
(Pat Kiewicz) wrote:
> (Though based on Bill's
> description, I guess I'd better get back to see what's happened to the MSU
> campus recently. There are some particular trees I'd like to visit again.)
The bad news:
In the last 15 years, new buildings have popped up all over. MSU was one of
the nation's largest universe-cities when I got here, and it is still
growing.
The good news:
Before *any* construction project starts (even simple trenching for
pipeline repair), the first thing that happens is that people go out and
put fences around trees to protect them from soil compaction caused by
heavy machinery which will come in for the construction.
So while trees are lost to construction, it is only the ones which are in
the way: not the innocent bystanders.
And it will be at least another couple of decades before MSU becomes a Borg
cube.
Helen Kay
> > What is pong?
> >
> It's a video game from the 1970s. My compost heap keeps getting clogged up
> with the darn things.
That ka-blip, ka-blip, ka-blip noise coming from somewhere in the heap
must drive you crazy.
Helen.
JLClem6648
Gardener's Supply. Granted, we didn't have much of a winter, but I got my
first batch finished in 63 days. I did use GSC's "Super Hot" product to speed
the process (since it was winter). I used lots of mulched maple leaves, a few
grass clippings and continuous veggie & plant waste. Got about 60 qts of
compost. The tumbler did get a bit heavy to turn near the end, but this one
has a convenient little handle on the bottom that allows me to get a good grip
on both ends. So I can turn it without bending at all.
Their ad says it makes compost in 28 days, but maybe that's in summer when you
have the heat to speed things up. And I won't be terribly disappointed if it
takes 35 or 40 days. The reason I wanted the tumbler is that I'm too impatient
to wait for a heap to decompose on its own (1 year??) and my old worn out back
is too infirm to turn the pile to speed it up. For me, the tumbler is easy,
neat and fast enough.
Jenni
tulsagardener
Jeff & Susan Stringer
have purchased Jerry Baker's "Impatient Gardener" book. I take it that Jerry is
more popular (or less as you wish) in other parts of the country. He used to be
on Talk Radio on Sunday or Saterday afternoons in my area. You know, the type
of show that you only catch every once in a while in the car, but that's about
all I know of him. Folks on this line talk about Jerry like the folks on
rec.textiles.crafts.sewing talk about Martha Stewart! I guess we all have to
have our icons with clay feet.
The only really good tip in the book (for me) was if you hate a particular
gardening job, eliminate it. But the way to get rid of the job you hate is
usually ten times harder than the orininal task. Me? I don't own a weed
whacker, so I don't like to trim the edges of my lawn. So, as the book
suggested, I dug a strip around my flower beds and layed in rocks at the same
level as the dirt so the edge of the lawn mower could roll over them. It
actually worked. I got extra top soil for my flower beds and a tube of Ben Gay
for my back after all that digging up the turf of the lawn and hauling rocks
around! I think I'll buy a weed wacker for the new house.
Hugs,
Susan
Pat Kiewicz
wtmo...@pilot.msu.edu says...
>> And let's be generous, the arboretum connected with that other famous
>> Michigan University has some merit, too...
>
>I've never seen it, but from all accounts, it is very good.
The restored peony garden is eyepopping in early June. And there is a
large fringe tree up the hill from the peonies that's very beautiful,
too.
>
>Does the other other major Michigan U have any such that you know of?
The Matthaei Botanical Gardens have been undergoing substantial renovations
the last few years (much needed). The Friends of the garden have a killer
plant sale each spring.
Here's the Garden's URL: http://www.lsa.umich.edu/mbg/
And the Arb's: http://www.umich.edu/~snrewww/arb/
OK, and let's do Hidden Lake's Garden: http://www.cpp.msu.edu/hlg/index.htm
Frederick Meijer Botanical Gardens:
http://www.mobot.org/AABGA/Member.pages/Meijer/meijer.html
(The link to Dow Gardens was unresponsive.)
There's a page of links to Botanical Gardens and Arboreta throughout
the US located here: http://www.rootsquest.com/~amhisnet/topic/botgdn.html
>Or
>the minor ones with directional names? Anything that might be worth a trip
>from Lansing, or worth seeing if you're going that way anyway?
>
I've no information about the compass universities.
But to add edibles content here, the farm at Greenfield Village is operated
circa 1880's. There's also a dyer's garden and some herb and flower gardens
there. (And, of course, historic buildings, craft demonstrations, etc.)
Not cheap to get into, but I live near enough to make a membership
worthwhile.) URL: http://www.hfmgv.org/highlights/village/vmap.html
>I meant that as one of the good points. There are a lot of experienced and
>well-informed people in this group. But as I am a transplant from another
>place, I find it very useful to hear from an experienced gardener from only
>a couple of hours away, if that. I grew up in Sunset zone 1. Zone 41 is a
>bit different. Of course, I'm not sure Plymouth *is* in Z 41, or if it is
>close enough to the "6th Great Lake" to have a slightly different climate.
We squeak into USDA zone 6, and the Very Good Lake St. Clair probably
contributes to that. I'm not sure if I remember the sunset zone, 39
maybe? (Well, I was going to the library today anyway, so I'll have
to hunt up the Sunset book again.)
>I used to like hearing from Jeff Ochs from K'zoo too. All that seasonal
>update stuff. Haven't seen it in a while. Does anyone know if he's still
>around?
He hasn't appeared in rec.birds, either, where IIRC he used to give
migration reports. Heavier class-load? Graduation?
>
>> And in the interest of laying praise where praise is due, I'd like to make
>> mention (as a local Michigan treasure) Graye's Greenhouse.
>
>Hey, where is that?
Plymouth, of course. Now, I don't want everyone coming there, or she'll be
even more likely to run out of basil, Melampodium, or Coral Nymph Salvia!!!
But if you ever want to order live plants for table decoration at a Gala
Event, Graye's is the place to shop in Plymouth (her cyclamen and primroses
have been praised).
Gary Cooper
> ...
> The only really good tip in the book (for me) was if you hate a particular
> gardening job, eliminate it. But the way to get rid of the job you hate is
> usually ten times harder than the orininal task. Me? I don't own a weed
> whacker, so I don't like to trim the edges of my lawn. So, as the book
> suggested, I dug a strip around my flower beds and layed in rocks at the same
> level as the dirt so the edge of the lawn mower could roll over them. It
> actually worked. I got extra top soil for my flower beds and a tube of Ben Gay
> for my back after all that digging up the turf of the lawn and hauling rocks
> around! I think I'll buy a weed wacker for the new house.
>...
Whether this can work depends on what kind of grass you have. Almost all
the lawn grasses here in Texas spread by runners that would just climb all
over any rock or brick border. Bermuda grass (our worst weed, in my
opinion, but many people plant it on purpose) also spreads everywhere by
(deep!) underground roots.
Gary
Elsie
>
> Joe Halpin wrote:
> >
> > What's the consensus here about using stuff like rabbit manure in
> > one hand, and that it's great as long as it composts for a year or
> > so on the other.
>
> can be used so long as it goes through a hot composting process. If
> you're just moldering it (like composting toilets often do) then it
> takes ages and ages (years) to be safe and it will never be as safe as
> something that gets to 130-150F or so.
>
> Any corrections?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Christopher L. Weeks
> central Missouri, USA
The compost experts here say you can use the manure of herbivores, but
carnivore manure can contain diseases/parasites which can come through
the composting process intact and be, well, not exactly healthy for us
humans...
--
Elsie
USDA Zone 8b, Texas, with a southeast Texas AND a gulf influence...
Sunset Zone 28/31 (on the cusp)
Bill Morgan
(Pat Kiewicz) wrote:
> In article <wtmorgan-ya02408000R1103991825260001@msunews>,
> wtmo...@pilot.msu.edu says...
> >as I am a transplant from another
> >place, I find it very useful to hear from an experienced gardener from only
> >a couple of hours away, if that. I grew up in Sunset zone 1. Zone 41 is a
> >bit different. Of course, I'm not sure Plymouth *is* in Z 41, or if it is
> >close enough to the "6th Great Lake" to have a slightly different climate.
>
> We squeak into USDA zone 6, and the Very Good Lake St. Clair probably
> contributes to that. I'm not sure if I remember the sunset zone, 39
> maybe? (Well, I was going to the library today anyway, so I'll have
> to hunt up the Sunset book again.)
>
Well now I'm disillusioned. All this time I thought your advice was
applicable to the Lansing area. Now it turns out that not only are we in
different Sunset zones, but different USDA as well. Checking the map it
does seem like you must be in 6a, while I'm in 5b. No doubt a world of
difference between here and there...
But seriously, good listing of relevant URLs and MI treasures. This is much
appreciated.
Pat Kiewicz
wtmo...@pilot.msu.edu says...
>Well now I'm disillusioned. All this time I thought your advice was
>applicable to the Lansing area. Now it turns out that not only are we in
>different Sunset zones, but different USDA as well. Checking the map it
>does seem like you must be in 6a, while I'm in 5b. No doubt a world of
>difference between here and there...
Would it help to tell you that I used to garden in Indiana (zone 41)?
8^)
But serriously, folks... I'm of the opinion that zone 39 in Plymouth has as
much (or more) in common with zone 41 in Lansing than Lansing has with, say,
northeastern Kansas or central Illinois. And putting *all* of the northern
Lower Penninsula into the same growing zone seems -- wrong. (What on earth
were they thinking over there at Sunset?)
>
>But seriously, good listing of relevant URLs and MI treasures. This is much
>appreciated.
You're certainly welcome.
Ann
>We squeak into USDA zone 6, and the Very Good Lake St. Clair probably
>contributes to that. I'm not sure if I remember the sunset zone, 39
>maybe? (Well, I was going to the library today anyway, so I'll have
>to hunt up the Sunset book again.)
Are you near Algonac and Marine City?
Ann
Gardening in Zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
Fix the from: 9 is the spam trap!
Pat Kiewicz
>
>kie...@mw.mediaone.net (Pat Kiewicz) expounded:
>
>>We squeak into USDA zone 6, and the Very Good Lake St. Clair probably
>>contributes to that. I'm not sure if I remember the sunset zone, 39
>>maybe? (Well, I was going to the library today anyway, so I'll have
>>to hunt up the Sunset book again.)
>
>Are you near Algonac and Marine City?
Plymouth, Original home of the Daisy Air Rifle ("You'll shoot your eye out!").
Between Dearborn (Ford Motor Co.) and Ann Arbor (University of Michigan).
West of Detroit.
We're nearer the wrist, Algonac and Marine City are over at the joint of
the Thumb.
(And I did remember correctly, in Sunset zone 39.)
StEvE
Shark meat tastes like chicken. Chicken, of course, also tastes like chicken.
I've tasted them all before and if someone were to ask me, I'd always say, "It
tastes just like chicken." And it's true too.
StEvE
slaughtered ones, that is) and the chances are that by the time the rabbit meat gets
cooked it's been frozen for a very long time and is somewhat stale.
arron wrote:
> I got to agree rabbit meat tastes like chicken. But I am sure
> that it taste like 'ckicken' which has not taken its
> bath for months.
--
********************************************************
* Do NOT modify my e-mail address for correspondence.
* It is valid as stated.
********************************************************
arron
I got to agree rabbit meat tastes like chicken. But I am sure
that it taste like 'ckicken' which has not taken its
bath for months.
> But I thought rabbit meat tastes like chicken. Snake meat tastes like chicken.
> Shark meat tastes like chicken. Chicken, of course, also tastes like chicken.
> I've tasted them all before and if someone were to ask me, I'd always say, "It
> tastes just like chicken." And it's true too.
> > 'Satay of lamb, beef and chicken is very nice,
Ann
>But I thought rabbit meat tastes like chicken. Snake meat tastes like chicken.
>Shark meat tastes like chicken. Chicken, of course, also tastes like chicken.
>I've tasted them all before and if someone were to ask me, I'd always say, "It
>tastes just like chicken." And it's true too.
Frog's legs, too! :o)
Gary Cooper
> But I thought rabbit meat tastes like chicken. Snake meat tastes like chicken.
> Shark meat tastes like chicken. Chicken, of course, also tastes like chicken.
> I've tasted them all before and if someone were to ask me, I'd always say, "It
> tastes just like chicken." And it's true too.
>
Stop it! Snake doesn't taste like chicken. Shark doesn't taste like
chicken. Goose liver doesn't taste like chicken. Frog legs don't taste
like chicken. Fried grasshoppers don't taste like chicken. Rabbit doesn't
taste at all like chicken. (Yes, I've eaten all of the above.) Even
chicken doesn't always taste like chicken.
If snake, shark, chicken, and rabbit really all taste alike to you (and
your were sober when you ate them), I'd advise you to seek medical help.
Gary
> arron wrote:
>
> > 'Satay of lamb, beef and chicken is very nice,
> > but for me rabbit satay is too strong in taste!
> >
> > (love bamboo shoot)
>
>
>
>
Joe Kleinsmith
>
> But I thought rabbit meat tastes like chicken. Snake meat tastes like chicken.
> Shark meat tastes like chicken. Chicken, of course, also tastes like chicken.
> I've tasted them all before and if someone were to ask me, I'd always say, "It
> tastes just like chicken." And it's true too.
>
Ann
>If they all taste like chicken, I think I'll just have the chicken!
Eggzakatackaly.
(Gary, you get it now??)
Ann
>But I thought rabbit meat tastes like chicken. Snake meat tastes like chicken.
>Shark meat tastes like chicken. Chicken, of course, also tastes like chicken.
>I've tasted them all before and if someone were to ask me, I'd always say, "It
>tastes just like chicken." And it's true too.
Frog's legs, too! :o)
Ann
Gary Cooper
> But I thought rabbit meat tastes like chicken. Snake meat tastes like chicken.
> Shark meat tastes like chicken. Chicken, of course, also tastes like chicken.
> I've tasted them all before and if someone were to ask me, I'd always say, "It
> tastes just like chicken." And it's true too.
>
Joe Kleinsmith
>
> But I thought rabbit meat tastes like chicken. Snake meat tastes like chicken.
> Shark meat tastes like chicken. Chicken, of course, also tastes like chicken.
> I've tasted them all before and if someone were to ask me, I'd always say, "It
> tastes just like chicken." And it's true too.
>
Ann
>If they all taste like chicken, I think I'll just have the chicken!
Eggzakatackaly.
(Gary, you get it now??)
Ann
Gary Cooper
> But I thought rabbit meat tastes like chicken. Snake meat tastes like chicken.
> Shark meat tastes like chicken. Chicken, of course, also tastes like chicken.
> I've tasted them all before and if someone were to ask me, I'd always say, "It
> tastes just like chicken." And it's true too.
>
Joe Kleinsmith
>
> But I thought rabbit meat tastes like chicken. Snake meat tastes like chicken.
> Shark meat tastes like chicken. Chicken, of course, also tastes like chicken.
> I've tasted them all before and if someone were to ask me, I'd always say, "It
> tastes just like chicken." And it's true too.
>
Ann
>If they all taste like chicken, I think I'll just have the chicken!
Eggzakatackaly.
Mike & Donna McCombs
It is flaky like fish. If you were to try and describe it to
someone who had never had snake meat before, this would be the
only way you could describe it to anyone. If you were to say, "
It tastes like snake ", how would the other person know how it '
might ' taste ? I mean personally, I would like to have even a
vague idea of how it might taste. You describe it to the NEAREST
thing that you know of.
Donna
--
Mike & Donna McCombs
m...@sunline.net
Gary Cooper wrote in message <7ctjht$pt6$1...@199.201.191.2>...
>On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, StEvE wrote:
>
>> But I thought rabbit meat tastes like chicken. Snake meat
tastes like chicken.
>> Shark meat tastes like chicken. Chicken, of course, also
tastes like chicken.
>> I've tasted them all before and if someone were to ask me, I'd
always say, "It
>> tastes just like chicken." And it's true too.
>>
Gary Cooper
Joe Kleinsmith
>
> But I thought rabbit meat tastes like chicken. Snake meat tastes like chicken.
> Shark meat tastes like chicken. Chicken, of course, also tastes like chicken.
> I've tasted them all before and if someone were to ask me, I'd always say, "It
> tastes just like chicken." And it's true too.
>
Ann
>If they all taste like chicken, I think I'll just have the chicken!
Eggzakatackaly.
Eric D
have to do with tumbler type composters??????
Ann wrote in message <7cua4d$8sm$1...@199.201.191.2>...
Mike & Donna McCombs
It is flaky like fish. If you were to try and describe it to
someone who had never had snake meat before, this would be the
only way you could describe it to anyone. If you were to say, "
It tastes like snake ", how would the other person know how it '
might ' taste ? I mean personally, I would like to have even a
vague idea of how it might taste. You describe it to the NEAREST
thing that you know of.
Donna
--
Mike & Donna McCombs
m...@sunline.net
Gary Cooper wrote in message <7ctjht$pt6$1...@199.201.191.2>...
>On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, StEvE wrote:
>
>> But I thought rabbit meat tastes like chicken. Snake meat
tastes like chicken.
>> Shark meat tastes like chicken. Chicken, of course, also
tastes like chicken.
>> I've tasted them all before and if someone were to ask me, I'd
always say, "It
>> tastes just like chicken." And it's true too.
>>
nerdfarm
I have to tell you, rabbit meat does not taste very much like chicken at
all - IMHO.
Andrea at the nerdfarm
Ann <ann...@thecia.net> wrote in article <7cstve$iap$1...@199.201.191.2>...
> StEvE <nospa...@juno.com> expounded:
>
> >But I thought rabbit meat tastes like chicken. Snake meat tastes like
chicken.
> >Shark meat tastes like chicken. Chicken, of course, also tastes like
chicken.
> >I've tasted them all before and if someone were to ask me, I'd always
say, "It
> >tastes just like chicken." And it's true too.
>
> Frog's legs, too! :o)
>
StEvE
to mention that tuna tastes like chicken too? Remember, "chicken of the sea"?
Gary Cooper wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, StEvE wrote:
>
> > But I thought rabbit meat tastes like chicken. Snake meat tastes like chicken.
> > Shark meat tastes like chicken. Chicken, of course, also tastes like chicken.
> > I've tasted them all before and if someone were to ask me, I'd always say, "It
> > tastes just like chicken." And it's true too.
> >
> Stop it! Snake doesn't taste like chicken. Shark doesn't taste like
> chicken. Goose liver doesn't taste like chicken. Frog legs don't taste
> like chicken. Fried grasshoppers don't taste like chicken. Rabbit doesn't
> taste at all like chicken. (Yes, I've eaten all of the above.) Even
> chicken doesn't always taste like chicken.
>
> If snake, shark, chicken, and rabbit really all taste alike to you (and
> your were sober when you ate them), I'd advise you to seek medical help.
--