***Parks' Yellow Tea-Scented China?***
Brent Dickerson
`Parks' Yellow Tea-Scented China' (Parks, 1824), the original yellow Tea
which had such an impact on subsequent breeding after Vibert introduced it
into France (where it would set seed, which it rarely did in
England)--where is it? Or should we ask, "Which is it?"--for there are
several candidates floating through the seven seas of old rosedom.
The appearance of this cultivar, as described by Buist in 1844--a man who
should have known it well, as, as he states, his business partner was the
first to import it into the U.S. (in 1828)--was/is "Pale straw colour,
extremely large bold petals; it is very splendid when half expanded, but
when full blown is loose and not fully double; it bears an abundance of
seed, but we have never produced a good rose from it... In fresh sandy
rich soil it grows very strong, and flowers profusely, but does not thrive
in heavy soils."
I thought it might be interesting if we were to take inventory of the
various candidates which claim to be `Parks' Yellow' nowadays. Could
those who have or know of such candidates give a short description of
each, and, if possible, a present-day source for each? Many thanks!
Best Wishes,
--BCD.
Web site: http://www.csulb.edu/~odinthor
Visit Vibert: http://www.csulb.edu/~odinthor/vibert.html
Rifle the Grab-Bag: http://www.csulb.edu/~odinthor/essay.html
"The supreme trick of mass insanity is that it persuades you that the only
abnormal person is the one who refuses to join in the madness of others,
the one who tries vainly to resist. We will never understand
totalitarianism if we do not understand that people rarely have the
strength to be uncommon." --Eugene Ionesco.
Ed Wilkinson
Brent Dickerson wrote:
>
> `Parks' Yellow Tea-Scented China' (Parks, 1824), the original yellow Tea
> which had such an impact on subsequent breeding after Vibert introduced it
> into France (where it would set seed, which it rarely did in
> England)--where is it? Or should we ask, "Which is it?"--for there are
> several candidates floating through the seven seas of old rosedom.
>
> The appearance of this cultivar, as described by Buist in 1844--a man who
> should have known it well, as, as he states, his business partner was the
> first to import it into the U.S. (in 1828)--was/is "Pale straw colour,
> extremely large bold petals; it is very splendid when half expanded, but
> when full blown is loose and not fully double; it bears an abundance of
> seed, but we have never produced a good rose from it... In fresh sandy
> rich soil it grows very strong, and flowers profusely, but does not thrive
> in heavy soils."
>
> I thought it might be interesting if we were to take inventory of the
> various candidates which claim to be `Parks' Yellow' nowadays. Could
> those who have or know of such candidates give a short description of
> each, and, if possible, a present-day source for each? Many thanks!
>
described in _Roses at the Cape of Good Hope_, which no doubt you know.
She says that it has been genetically tested in England against the DNA
in a dried herbarium specimen, and seems to be the real thing. Not in
commerce, as far as I know.
Best,
Ed Wilkinson
edwil...@juno.com
Charles Bigelow
In article <6fu5mb$r...@hatathli.csulb.edu>, odin...@csulb.edu (Brent
Dickerson) wrote:
> `Parks' Yellow Tea-Scented China' (Parks, 1824), the original yellow Tea
> which had such an impact on subsequent breeding after Vibert introduced it
> into France (where it would set seed, which it rarely did in
> England)--where is it? Or should we ask, "Which is it?"--for there are
> several candidates floating through the seven seas of old rosedom.
>
> The appearance of this cultivar, as described by Buist in 1844--a man who
> should have known it well, as, as he states, his business partner was the
> first to import it into the U.S. (in 1828)--was/is "Pale straw colour,
> extremely large bold petals; it is very splendid when half expanded, but
> when full blown is loose and not fully double; it bears an abundance of
> seed, but we have never produced a good rose from it... In fresh sandy
> rich soil it grows very strong, and flowers profusely, but does not thrive
> in heavy soils."
>
> I thought it might be interesting if we were to take inventory of the
> various candidates which claim to be `Parks' Yellow' nowadays. Could
> those who have or know of such candidates give a short description of
> each, and, if possible, a present-day source for each? Many thanks!
I grow a "Park's Yellow Tea-scented China" imported from Peter Beales.
It is a vigorous, angular climber that has medium-sized, light yellow
flowers (straw-colored would be accurate) with a distinct tea fragrance,
and indeed they are best when half open and formless and floppy when
fully open. However, mine has been once blooming, contrary to what we
would expect. Perhaps when it is better established it will re-bloom,
but perhaps not. It has been two years in the same location, blooming
only in the spring, and it did the same in falifornia for two years.
Sometimes there is a faint pink blush at the tips of the petals.
It matches Beales' description of Park's Yellow, of course. I'll
have to check Redoute and Wilmott to see if they have paintings
that resemble it.
-- Chuck Bigelow
Brent Dickerson
Charles Bigelow (ba...@maui.net) wrote:
: I grow a "Park's Yellow Tea-scented China" imported from Peter Beales.
: It is a vigorous, angular climber that has medium-sized, light yellow
: flowers (straw-colored would be accurate) with a distinct tea fragrance,
: and indeed they are best when half open and formless and floppy when
: fully open. However, mine has been once blooming, contrary to what we
: would expect. Perhaps when it is better established it will re-bloom,
: but perhaps not. It has been two years in the same location, blooming
: only in the spring, and it did the same in falifornia for two years.
***Chuck and I have corresponded on this particular plant before; to me,
its very once-bloomingness seems to argue well that this is indeed the
real thing; a once-blooming yellow Tea would not have been tolerated as
the Tea group developed, but would have been cherished when no other
yellow Teas were available. I wonder if this one is available in the
States anywhere...?
Charles Bigelow
In article <6g0eld$b...@hatathli.csulb.edu>, odin...@csulb.edu (Brent
Dickerson) wrote:
> ***Chuck and I have corresponded on this particular plant before; to me,
> its very once-bloomingness seems to argue well that this is indeed the
> real thing; a once-blooming yellow Tea would not have been tolerated as
> the Tea group developed, but would have been cherished when no other
> yellow Teas were available. I wonder if this one is available in the
> States anywhere...?
CRL lists Park's Yellow as being available from Marissa Fishman's
Greenmantle Nursery. Probably by special order. I would guess hers
came from Beale's, as she has imported other stock from him. That's
only a guess, though.
CRL also shows Walter Branchi's nursery in Orvieto Italy as having it.
Now that is intriguing, as I would guess that if the true Park's
Yellow survived anywhere in Europe, it would have been in southern
France or Italy.
-- Chuck
Charles Bigelow
> Gwen Fagan has a candidate she found in South Africa; it's pictured and
> described in _Roses at the Cape of Good Hope_, which no doubt you know.
> She says that it has been genetically tested in England against the DNA
> in a dried herbarium specimen, and seems to be the real thing. Not in
> commerce, as far as I know.
The photo on page 89 of Gewn Fagan's book shows a flower with more pink
than the Park's Yellow I got from Beales, though mine ocasionally shows
a slight pink blush. Gwen Fagan writes:
"Rosa x odorata ochroleuca ('Park's Yellow Tea-scented China')
is in all respects similar to 'Hume's Blush China' but the
flowers are of a pale cream to apricot colour and the plant
itself is not quite so robust."
and
"...these roses like the 'Old Monthly'and the Crimson China rose
will always provide a splash of colour in the garden or a few
gay blooms or a vase."
This cannot be the same bush as Beale's 'Park's Yellow', which is
a vigorous, angular climber, far more vigorous than the purported
'Hume's Blush' I got from Beales, and more vigorous than most Teas,
but which blooms only once a year, not once a month.
I don't have a reproduction of Redoute's painting of Rosa indica
sulphurea [Park's Yellow], so I can't make that comparison.
The Hume's Blush Tea-scented China I got from Beales did resemble
Redoute's painting of Rosa odorata, and Thory's comment that it
was was prone to "odium" accords with my experience that it was
highly susceptible to powdery mildew. Gewn Fagan's photo shows a
Hume's Blush rose that is darker pink than mine or Redoute's.
-- Chuck
Ed Wilkinson
Charles Bigelow wrote:
>
> In article <352339...@sprintmail.com>, edwilk...@sprintmail.com wrote:
>
> > Gwen Fagan has a candidate she found in South Africa; it's pictured and
> > described in _Roses at the Cape of Good Hope_, which no doubt you know.
> > She says that it has been genetically tested in England against the DNA
> > in a dried herbarium specimen, and seems to be the real thing. Not in
> > commerce, as far as I know.
>
> The photo on page 89 of Gewn Fagan's book shows a flower with more pink
> than the Park's Yellow I got from Beales, though mine ocasionally shows
> a slight pink blush. Gwen Fagan writes:
>
> "Rosa x odorata ochroleuca ('Park's Yellow Tea-scented China')
> is in all respects similar to 'Hume's Blush China' but the
> flowers are of a pale cream to apricot colour and the plant
> itself is not quite so robust."
>
> and
>
> "...these roses like the 'Old Monthly'and the Crimson China rose
> will always provide a splash of colour in the garden or a few
> gay blooms or a vase."
>
> This cannot be the same bush as Beale's 'Park's Yellow', which is
> a vigorous, angular climber, far more vigorous than the purported
> 'Hume's Blush' I got from Beales, and more vigorous than most Teas,
> but which blooms only once a year, not once a month.
She does agree that hers is not the same as Beales'. (This and previous
post based on a conversation with her at the Old Rose Symposium last
Fall at the Antique Rose Emporium in Brenham, TX--a highly nifty event
and absolutely free, BTW, if you can resist dragging roses home with
you).
Best,
Ed Wilkinson
edwil...@juno.com
Ed Wilkinson
Brent Dickerson wrote:
>
> Charles Bigelow (ba...@maui.net) wrote:
> : I grow a "Park's Yellow Tea-scented China" imported from Peter Beales.
> : It is a vigorous, angular climber that has medium-sized, light yellow
> : flowers (straw-colored would be accurate) with a distinct tea fragrance,
> : and indeed they are best when half open and formless and floppy when
> : fully open. However, mine has been once blooming, contrary to what we
> : would expect. Perhaps when it is better established it will re-bloom,
> : but perhaps not. It has been two years in the same location, blooming
> : only in the spring, and it did the same in falifornia for two years.
> : Sometimes there is a faint pink blush at the tips of the petals. [...]
>
> its very once-bloomingness seems to argue well that this is indeed the
> real thing; a once-blooming yellow Tea would not have been tolerated as
> the Tea group developed, but would have been cherished when no other
> yellow Teas were available. I wonder if this one is available in the
> States anywhere...?
It's not in their catalog, but I saw a largish block of plants at the
Antique Rose Emporium last Fall (Gwen Fagan saw it too and pronounced it
nothing like hers, although it was not in bloom at the time).
Best,
Ed Wilkinson
edwil...@juno.com
Sarah Brown
odin...@csulb.edu (Brent Dickerson) writes:
>
>`Parks' Yellow Tea-Scented China' (Parks, 1824), the original yellow Tea
>which had such an impact on subsequent breeding after Vibert introduced it
>into France (where it would set seed, which it rarely did in
>England)--where is it? Or should we ask, "Which is it?"--for there are
>several candidates floating through the seven seas of old rosedom.
know if it's the real one or not. Tasman Bay are reputable IMO.
Sarah Brown
New Zealand
--
BCD
Charles Bigelow wrote:
> [...]
> It matches Beales' description of Park's Yellow, of course. I'll
> have to check Redoute and Wilmott to see if they have paintings
> that resemble it.
***Hey, Dude: check out plate 122 of Redoute's 1833 *Choix des Plus
Belles Fleurs*--way non-bogus, y'know? (`Parks' Yellow Tea-Scented
China' incognito under the name `Rosier des Indes Jaune') We also have
Redoute's illustrations of `Hume's Blush' and `Parsons' Pink'--in *Les
Roses* under various names (Redoute and Thory had a disgusting habit of
"rebaptizing" roses to honor their friends, and I think to do some "If I
scratch your back..." activites; Vibert complains about this;
consequently, Redoute and Thory should never be cited as authoritative
about rose names!). Now, if only we had a Redoute of `Slater's
Crimson'...
Like, Best Wishes,
--BCD (getting Spring fever)