The changing retail orchid landscape
Elpaninaro
Very interesting post on the SDCOS show in regards to the Cattleya situation.
I am not sure about that show in particular, but I have noticed a very
interesting shift in the orchid market in general over the past few years.
And I would be curious to hear the thoughts of others on this since my
knowledge is largely restricted to local goings-on.
Just last weekend I went to a local orchid shop and found a few of the old
style complex Paph hybrids in bud- first bloomers too! I was ECSTATIC! I took
them all, despite their being $35.00 each- a lot more than I usually spend on a
plant.
And it made me think how things have changed so very much in the past 20 years
since I started growing orchids.
These days Paphs remain en vogue, in keeping with the trend that started in the
mid 1980s, but ONLY if they are vinicolors or have some roth or sanderianum in
the parentage. Everything else seems to have gone. The Chinese Paphs have
retreated to near obscurity, and good complex Paphs are nearly impossible to
find.
Large flowered Cattleyas are practically a distant memory. 20 years ago they
dominated the local store shelves around here- and the plant tables too at
shows and orchid meetings. No more. The smaller ones to some degree- but the
glory days of the giant corsage Cattleyas have faded.
Cymbidiums are non-existent in these parts- despite the fact that they can be
grown outside with little attention most of the year. I know one store with a
few dozen for sale.
The species rage has also died down. 15 years ago that was the THING! LOL. In
1992 I did a show in Houston with nothing but Cattleya and Paph species
seedlings and I sold out before the show closed.
So what is hot now? Phalaenopsis and Dendrobiums. That is just about all I see
anywhere I look. They are easy to grow, showy enough for most people, and you
can get them at the grocery store.
It is like orchids have gone mainstream :) I really do believe that is the case
personally. In my work I have visited many clients and these days you will see
an orchid on someone's desk where a bromeliad or other house plant used to be.
And I cannot help but think this will have a long term impact. At my local
society a lot of the grand old guard is gone. Lots of new people too. That is a
great thing.
And perhaps the costs of a greenhouse are now less appealing since indoor
lights are so much easier and widely available. Around 1988 when I got my first
set of indoor lights (in middle school no less), it was a $500 kit that had to
be ordered by mail.
Now you can get one for one fourth the price locally. Or you can build your own
(as I have done) from the Home Depot and Container Store for less than $100.
So the new growers have resources and access we never had 10-15 years ago. And
since orchids come easier to them, I think often they stick with what is
presented in more mainstream areas.
Thus changes the scope of what people grow. In the past 5 years, when I have
done shows, I have not just sold Phals and Dendrobiums because I was working
for an excellent orchid firm who specialized there, but also because that is
what people wanted.
In 1995 I did a huge show in Houston- an AOS show. I had over 1,000 plants
there. The Phals were a sellout. The Paphs did so-so. Dendrobiums- a near sell
out. Cattleyas? I had 50 plants there- the large corsage type- in bud and bloom
for $20 each, and I sold maybe 10 of them.
I laughed over that remembering back in 1982 when I went to one of my first
shows as a child and paid that same $20 for a blooming Cattleya from a guy who
was selling nothing but blooming Catts! 13 years later, at the same price, I
could barely sell 20% of my stock.
So when I am asked where have the Cattleyas gone, this is my answer. Orchid
firms have to move where the money is, and right now that is Phalaenopsis.
Someone else will send you near blooming plants for less than it would cost you
to hybridize just about anything else on your own. Just look at who has
downsized lately and who has dramatically altered the composition of their
stock among the larger firms, and the answer becomes clear.
And who knows what will come in the future? Paph rothschildianum made a pretty
bold comeback not too long ago. Perhaps someday descendents of Lc. Norman's Bay
will again be the show darling.
I sure hope so :)
Tom.
strawberry9
"Elpaninaro" <elpan...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020320003546...@mb-mp.aol.com...
> Very interesting post on the SDCOS show in regards to the Cattleya
situation.
Well, thanks, I'm assuming you are meaning my post.
>
> I am not sure about that show in particular, but I have noticed a very
> interesting shift in the orchid market in general over the past few years.
I try to make a few shows a year, here in southern california. Living in SD
county it makes sense to go to the SDCOS annual show. I rather like it, it
is not too large, but has a nice selection of displays. I know that there
have been vendors who would like to be at this show but because of space
limitations they are not allowed in.
[snip]
> These days Paphs remain en vogue, in keeping with the trend that started
in the
> mid 1980s, but ONLY if they are vinicolors or have some roth or
sanderianum in
> the parentage. Everything else seems to have gone. The Chinese Paphs have
> retreated to near obscurity, and good complex Paphs are nearly impossible
to
> find.
Around here at the Trader Joe's and Home Depot there are usually a small
selection of paphs, 50% or more being vinicolors.
>
> Large flowered Cattleyas are practically a distant memory. 20 years ago
they
> dominated the local store shelves around here- and the plant tables too at
> shows and orchid meetings. No more. The smaller ones to some degree- but
the
> glory days of the giant corsage Cattleyas have faded.
At the recent SDCOS show there were the following vendors offering decent
selections of smaller catt hybrids: (1) Sunset Valley Orchids, (2) Islander
Delight, (3) Blossoming Orchids. A few others had small selections,
including Marty's which if they had more room would probably have had more.
The only vendors with the large catts were N'Go Orchids (with the
overpriced, IMO, Norman's Bay and Fortune descendents), and Reids, selling
some old line cut flower lavender and whites. A few of the other vendors
had token catts.
> Cymbidiums are non-existent in these parts- despite the fact that they can
be
> grown outside with little attention most of the year. I know one store
with a
> few dozen for sale.
That is why I think Casa de las Orquideas may be the last cym specialist (of
any considerable size) around. They always do a good business at this show.
At the FoO show in Costa Mesa G&S was moving lots of low priced cyms from
their cut flower nursery. NOID catts too, which were flying off the shelf
as they seemed the only ones with whites in bud.
The local grocery stores still carry blooming cyms, as does TJ, roughly a
few more than they have paphs. But this is San Diego and cyms grow like
crabgrass here so they take no skill at all.
> The species rage has also died down. 15 years ago that was the THING! LOL.
In
> 1992 I did a show in Houston with nothing but Cattleya and Paph species
> seedlings and I sold out before the show closed.
At the recent shows Andy's always seems packed with visitors in his layout.
At the SDCOS show Bergstrom had a decent setup, but I don't know how much he
ended up selling. The Orchid Connection had their Mexican species, which of
course are a natural choice here in SD, but on Friday when I was there they
didn't seem that busy. I wish they would do hybrids with the Mexican
species, as Sandro Cusi doesn't have a booth at this show.
> So what is hot now? Phalaenopsis and Dendrobiums. That is just about all I
see
> anywhere I look. They are easy to grow, showy enough for most people, and
you
> can get them at the grocery store.
At the HDs and TJs around here Dendrobiums are popular; and phals too but
not your old fashioned ones but the smaller flowered, novelty types. At the
shows dens seem popular, more so than phals.
> It is like orchids have gone mainstream :) I really do believe that is the
case
> personally. In my work I have visited many clients and these days you will
see
> an orchid on someone's desk where a bromeliad or other house plant used to
be.
It seems like the oncidium hybrids are very popular here. Even the
miltonias can be found at TJs. Rarely a catt at TJs or HD. Same at the
shows.
[snip]
> So the new growers have resources and access we never had 10-15 years ago.
And
> since orchids come easier to them, I think often they stick with what is
> presented in more mainstream areas.
My off the cuff analysis for this area, wrt to the most commonly bought
orchid plants by the general population, are roughly in this order:
1 or 2) Dendrobium or oncidium hybrids;
3) phals;
4 or 5) paphs or cymbidiums;
and in small quantities:
6) catts and relatives;
7) massies;
8) vandas & relatives;
9) pleiones (found at a couple of garden shops.)
[snip]
> I laughed over that remembering back in 1982 when I went to one of my
first
> shows as a child and paid that same $20 for a blooming Cattleya from a guy
who
> was selling nothing but blooming Catts! 13 years later, at the same price,
I
> could barely sell 20% of my stock.
Just today, as I'm getting in the mood to do my annual buying (which I
discovered is best if I do in March and April, and repot at this time also,
for best growth in my conditions) I reached for the H&R catalog. I though
it was the 2001 listing. Only an hour later did I discover I was looking at
the 1991 listing! Funny thing is, the prices in the 2001 catalog for the
catt hybrids are *less* in many cases than in 1991!!!! I conclude that the
market just cannot bear any higher prices. BTW, the 1991 listing looks
current compared to the resellers, who are still selling the H&R crosses of
10 years ago. Tells you who is the cutting edge in small catts....
I have a 1961 Jones & Scully catalog, and it is such and education looking
at this thing. Too bad the published catalog is disappearing. Problem with
internet only listings is that there is no long term document trail. Will
we be looking at the 2002 year web pages in 2012? I doubt it.
> So when I am asked where have the Cattleyas gone,
Sounds like a pop song from the '60's....
> this is my answer. Orchid
> firms have to move where the money is, and right now that is Phalaenopsis.
But looking at the local store prices phals are selling cheaper than any
other orchid....
> Someone else will send you near blooming plants for less than it would
cost you
> to hybridize just about anything else on your own. Just look at who has
> downsized lately and who has dramatically altered the composition of their
> stock among the larger firms, and the answer becomes clear.
Back around 1990 I had thought of starting a hobby orchid business. I wrote
the big 3 nurseries, and got personally written replies from them (Robert
Scully Jr, Ned Nash, and Charles Cross), all saying the same thing: the
orchid nursery business was changing big time, and I should be wary of
making money in this business. I see now that it would be hard to compete
with the million square foot greenhouse, near slave labor, businesses in the
far east.
>
> And who knows what will come in the future? Paph rothschildianum made a
pretty
> bold comeback not too long ago. Perhaps someday descendents of Lc.
Norman's Bay
> will again be the show darling.
>
> I sure hope so :)
I don't - they are too much the wimps! Can't handle the cold. Need to
breed some more purp or even anceps into those lines....
Future belongs to the encyclias?
-dan
Wendy
Cheers Wendy
"strawberry9" <straw...@worldnet.att.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:nSZl8.1883$aF.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Rob Halgren
> style complex Paph hybrids in bud- first bloomers too! I was ECSTATIC! I took
> them all, despite their being $35.00 each- a lot more than I usually spend on a
> plant.
I collect those puppies too...
> These days Paphs remain en vogue, in keeping with the trend that started in the
> mid 1980s, but ONLY if they are vinicolors or have some roth or sanderianum in
> the parentage. Everything else seems to have gone. The Chinese Paphs have
> retreated to near obscurity, and good complex Paphs are nearly impossible to
> find.
Chinese paphs may become even more obscure, as I think that the AOS has decided
that a number of them (and their progeny) are ineligble for judging, since there
are no "legally imported" parents. A load of bull, in my opinion, as the horse is
out of the barn... Restricting the species and progeny now only discourages the
(good in my opinion) propagation of these in commercial greenhouses.
Anyway, to the changing world. I think that the 'novice' grower will always
start with Phals or Paphs (not many dendrobiums here in the midwest for some
reason). In fact, we encourage this as 'non-newbies'. People will ask what orchid
they should start with, and not a man or woman among you will suggest Dracula
vampira. We always suggest a phal as a good starter plant. I always direct people
to Maudiae paphs. Many of these 'novices' will never become hard core addicts.
So, if 100 people buy a phal at a show, 10 of them may join the orchid society, and
half of them may get really insane like me. It is these remaining five who buy
'obscure' genera. So, as a large commercial grower, who are you going to market
to? I'd pick the hundred over the 5, if I was trying to make a living.
That said, that leaves 5 people spending their kid's college funds on the more
'obscure' orchids. So there will always be a market for niche growers, small scale
commercials, and one or two big outfits specializing in 'unfashionable' non phals
and paphs. I can't see any change in the great masses of commercial vendors,
because there shouldn't be. If big showy cattleyas reach some sort of breeding
nirvana where they are as easy for the novice to grow as a Paph Maudiae, then we
'experts' will start directing 'novices' to them, and the market forces will
shift. Nifty.
As for show darlings, I think Best in Show trophy goes to big old Cattleyas
more often than paphs and phals. At least around here. They are just more
impressive... But novices aren't winning Best of Show very much, either, are
they? *grin*
--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
Michael Gerzog
> Chinese paphs may become even more obscure, as I think that the AOS has
> decided that a number of them (and their progeny) are ineligble for judging, > since there are no "legally imported" parents.
That's just the "newest" ones, like vietnamense and hangianum, and
others the names of which I don't recall and most
non-relatively-hardcore growers don't even know. Armeniacum,
emersonii, malipoense, micranthum, and all their varieties, etc. and
progeny are all perfectly legal and awardable. And I'm not quite sure
what the status of hangianum is - I think I heard that the AOS had
issued an award *after* their pronouncement about not awarding illegal
plants, but I don't know for sure, since I don't subscribe to AQ.
As for the rest, I mostly disagree, but am not going to get into the
millionth on-line thumb-twiddling exercise over CITES...
Michael
Elpaninaro
>decided
>that a number of them (and their progeny) are ineligble for judging, since
>there
>are no "legally imported" parents. A load of bull, in my opinion, as the
>horse is
>out of the barn... Restricting the species and progeny now only discourages
>the
>(good in my opinion) propagation of these in commercial greenhouses.
Very good point! I am not up to date on AOS proclamations, but I think you are
dead on in your last comment. But I digress since, as Michael says, we have
covered all that ground before LOL.
I think part of the demise of the Chinese paphs has also been that the world
figured out they are damn hard to grow. I have had many plants not do well on
me, but only once have I just had a whole pile of stuff die on me, and it was a
load of 100 Chinese paph seedlings. And others I have owned did not fare well
either. They are just tricky plants. And it is hard for people to buy something
with that kind of reputation when they are faced with a 2 inch leaf span plant
for $50. Sure it is near blooming size, but it just "looks all the more scary.
>Anyway, to the changing world. I think that the 'novice' grower will always
>start with Phals or Paphs (not many dendrobiums here in the midwest for some
>reason). In fact, we encourage this as 'non-newbies'. People will ask what
>orchid
>they should start with, and not a man or woman among you will suggest Dracula
>vampira.
This is true, I will agree. I usually steer people towards Phals. Dendrobiums
are very popular since they are showy and cheap, but I do not think they make
good houseplants for most people. They get too tall and need too much light for
them to be easy to handle. Paphs are a good choice too, but can be more
finicky, and are always more expensive, so I find the price tag usually scares
off newbies.
>So, as a large commercial grower, who are you going to market
>to? I'd pick the hundred over the 5, if I was trying to make a living.
> That said, that leaves 5 people spending their kid's college funds on the
>more
>'obscure' orchids. So there will always be a market for niche growers, small
>scale
>commercials, and one or two big outfits specializing in 'unfashionable' non
>phals
>and paphs. I can't see any change in the great masses of commercial vendors,
>because there shouldn't be.
This is a fair point. I will freely confess I think the same way. When I go to
a show, I usually try to have 60-70% of my stuff geared for new growers. And
then the rest is specialty stuff, and of course a few WOW plants (like the 3
foot leaf span Paph. roths I brought out once. Talk about something that got
attention LOL.)
But such things do not sell well. I have another job and sell plants to fund my
hobby and also give me an avenue to sell good plants that are not of
awardable/breeding level. When I bring the special stuff to a show it is to
generate recognition for future benefit- I do not make money on these things
most of the time.
When I got these Paphs the other day, the owner of the nursery had some
interesting items for sale. For $30 there was a pink phal first bloom seedling
with 5 inch flowers!!!! A possible HCC on that plant and definitely breeding
stock.
But it was for sale at $30, just like all the others. The owner will freely
admit awards are of no interest to her, and such applies to many growers these
days. Having good attractive plants in bloom is more important- and far more
profitable.
And I think this is one more reality of orchids going mainstream. There is an
expectation among the general public at a show that did not exist 20 years ago.
That expectation is that you will have blooming plants that will compete
price-wise with Home Depot, Lowe's and the local grocery store.
So while the orchid world has greatly expanded, it has also put pressure on
vendors who do their own hybridizing.
More customers has led to more vendors. There are a TON of people selling
plants today. 20 years ago when I started, here in Houston you had one choice-
Orchids and Ferns- for a major retail outlet. Now there are several places-
plus you can get blooming orchids year round at all three of the major grocery
chains, Home Depot, Lowe's, the various flower shops near the hospital district
and many new specialty shops. We even have a restaurant here that displays and
sells orchids all around the dining room.
So 20 years ago in Houston, you had one major retailer and 2-3 upscale
nurseries with steady blooming supplies. Now there are easily 40-50 places in
town that will almost always have some plants for sale.
And the breeding lines are all strikingly similar. With experience it is not
too difficult to look at a group of plants and see by the flower shapes etc.
where they came from, and what breeding lines. Hawaii and the Far East are
where most of these plants come from.
It has always been difficult to be your own hybridizer in the Continental US.
The really successful guys, like Harry Freiburg and John Martin, usually made
their fortunes elsewhere and did orchids on the side, or after they retired.
The sheer volume of plants you have to keep and bloom out to capture enough
awards and breeding stock for the future makes the cost prohibitive compared to
Hawaii or Taiwan where all you need is some shade cloth :)
RF Orchids is a good example. Most of their plants are now in Thailand (I think
that is right, maybe it is Taiwan.) Even in balmy Florida they have found that
it is far more expensive to run a breeding program here.
Olympia Orchids is another good example. Bill Tippit has a TREMENDOUS breeding
stock and is making spectacular crosses. But a lot of people are missing out on
these great plants because of the prices. The prices are reasonable in my
opinion, but it is hard to compete with sources from across the Pacific. The
new market has created an expectation that does hurt those who must run their
breeding programs in the US- or those who even choose to breed at all for that
matter. Why seed and flask and compot for 3 years when you can buy bundles of
Dendrobium plants from Taiwan that are 1 year from blooming for 55 cents each?
And thus I think the pressure is greater these days. It is true that a lot of
the cheaper plants out there are good for newbies, but the proliferation of
Dendrobium phalaenopsis hybrids does reveal that more is at work here- namely
that which is showy, and can be brought into flower 2-3 years from flask is
what will be successfully sold in the US since the plants will be cheap.
> As for show darlings, I think Best in Show trophy goes to big old
>Cattleyas
>more often than paphs and phals. At least around here. They are just more
>impressive... But novices aren't winning Best of Show very much, either, are
>they? *grin*
LOL- I think you got me there hahahaha :)
But beyond that, I think a lot of people are giving Cattleyas a miss. True it
has a lot to do with cost and care needed, but it also has to do with the fact
they take more time and longer to bring to bloom for the big wholesalers. So it
is certainly both forces working in tandem.
I will say this, if you can- as a newbie- grow and rebloom a Dendrobium, then
you can also grow and rebloom a standard Cattleya- and with a lot less hassle
over space at that. So what is presented in the marketplace does come into it I
think.
Tom.
RJ
serious about growing orchids I've seen the phals gather a lot of
steam. But I have some older magazines with similar things about other
genera. It all comes around eventually. As for our area, species
growing is still doing very well in NC. Maybe because there's too many
PhD's per square mile in Research Triangle Park.:-)
RJ
K Barrett
thread, not you.
I don't know where you all get the notion that chinese paphs are out.
They are all the rage! Complex paphs are making a come back, too. So I
guess its an East Coast/Texas/Florida thing. You should come to
California where *all* orchids are alive and well and florishing. If
they aren't in your area you should start your own business, because
there's money to be made supplying a neighborhood near you. People want
orchids.
You guys gotta get out more.
K Barrett
[shakes head]
Michael Gerzog
> Mike, sorry for kidnapping your post... I'm responding to the general
> thread, not you.
Thas' OK. And I agree about paphs - I've seen more and more complex
crosses from "mainstream" vendors in the past couple of years than I
ever did when I first started growing orchids (about 12 years ago).
And the parvis have finally started showing up in 2d and 3d generation
crosses - now's when it starts really getting fun. I've also seen
more and more crosses between parvis and the true complex paphs - I
have no idea how they're turning out, but it sounds "interesting" if
nothing else. I'm sure some of them will be positively hideous, but
some could be really cool.
Michael
Elpaninaro
>They are all the rage! Complex paphs are making a come back, too. So I
>guess its an East Coast/Texas/Florida thing. You should come to
>California where *all* orchids are alive and well and florishing. If
>they aren't in your area you should start your own business, because
>there's money to be made supplying a neighborhood near you. People want
>orchids.
>
>You guys gotta get out more.
>
Hi K,
That is why I was asking for feedback on other regions LOL. It is very
different depending on where you are as to who grows what.
The reason I avoid the Chinese Paphs and do not want to become the local
supplier is that I have a rough time with them and they are very expensive. I
used to have a great source in Southern California for these at $1.50 each out
of flats with a 2 inch leaf span, but that source is long gone. These cannot be
bought wholesale for cheap anymore in quantities of 50-100. The best I can do
is about $10 a plant.
And when you consider a death ratio of about 50%, that makes my cost $20 a
plant. I can bring Hilo Lips to blooming size 2 years out of compot, but I
cannot do a thing with these Chinese Paphs :(
As for the general taste for them, they are just not really around here. Bob
Chauvin over at ABC Orchids has some nice ones in small amounts, but I have not
seen anyone else selling them here at all.
Tom.
Kye
Kye.
"K Barrett" <morm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3C9A11F3...@hotmail.com...
Rob Halgren
vietnamese...)... Those are the big five. A couple of other 'new ones' which
look suspiciously like varieties of the old ones to me. I haven't seen them
in person. There are some newer ones that i haven't even seen in pictures, so
I won't even presume to play armchair taxonomist there. There are some
interesting malipoense variants ('jackii' looks like a variety to me...). As
mentioned before, without diving into CITES, some of the newer ones are not
legitimately imported. I believe emersonii is technically illegal as well,
but I can't find my AQ that tells me what I'm allowed to judge or not.
Of course there are other paphs from China... usually when we
paphiophiles say chinese, we mean 'Parvisepalum", or the inflated pouch
species.
As long as I have a chance... I would say that the parvi breeding (some
good stuff coming out of Antec) and the newer complex hybrids (many of my
best ones come out of Orchid Zone, or A&P), are still popular in the midwest.
At least among paph nuts like me. There are plenty of other good breeders out
there too (I've made a couple nice crosses myself...). But, in shows in our
area (Michigan) most of the vendors don't sell paphs in large numbers. I have
difficulty finding them as demonstration plants when I do my little "intro to
orchids" talks at some of the local shows. So, while there is interest in
the orchid growing community, the larger public has drifted away from the paph
world. I hope they drift back. It could be a lack of vendors, as our local
paph specialist shop folded last year. Perhaps somebody will come in to fill
the gap. If I had time I'd consider it.
There are a couple of shows I go to which have good slipper turnout.
Michigan Orchid Society show (this weekend in Livonia...) is the only one in
Michigan. Michiana OS has good slipper turnout, but mainly because I and a
couple other society members are paph nuts and we unload our extras on the
society table. The Chicago area shows always have an excellent selection.
Chicago benefits from having Orchid Inn (Sam Tsui) and Fox Valley (Tom Kalina)
local, so there is plenty of good stuff to buy there. They are both active in
breeding in all lines of Paphiopedilum (and I buy a lot from both of them).
They also both come to the Michigan OS show.
Kye wrote:
--
Kye
have alive and growing to the point where they have flowered and have 6 or 7
growths???
Kye.
"Rob Halgren" <hal...@msu.edu> wrote in message
news:3C9B4A2F...@msu.edu...
K Barrett
K Barrett
Rob Halgren wrote:[snip]
Rob Halgren
I'd be pleased... Send me a division and I'll be more pleased... *grin*
Kye wrote:
> So I should be pleased with myself for managing to keep the Chinese plants I
> have alive and growing to the point where they have flowered and have 6 or 7
> growths???
--
Rob Halgren
sounds more like [whumpp] %!$@##@
K Barrett wrote:
--
K Barrett
K Barrett
K Barrett
have several chinese hybrids, roths, sanderianums or what have you. In
addition to the complex. If you do not know the difference amongst the
chamberlainianum swarm you are less than dirt. If you cannot ID jackii
at a glimpse, you are dirt. (Ask me, I am dirt!)(SIR!)
Honestly, I didn't know the rest of the country was so deprived.
(Depraved??)
Kye
Kye.
"Rob Halgren" <hal...@msu.edu> wrote in message
news:3C9B80A9...@msu.edu...
Rob Halgren
chamberlainianums... The lumper in me rising to the surface.
If you want sanderianums, Sam Tsui is selling flasks. And they are reasonably cheap,
considering. If he has any left... Now getting sanderianum seedlings to grow is quite
another thing...
jeffe...@attbi.com
like the giants" But I also have the smaller ones in starting a New
Orchid Biz I try to keep some of everything I dont want to limit
myself "hey what dont sale quickly I can enjoy and it all sales in
time
Keep on Growing what you like to GROW it always cycles
Jeff
jeffe...@attbi.com
I have the Legal ones RETAIL RETAIL RETAIL not a problem at all in
the Atlanta GA Area
Tim Pulling
have seen in the past few years a lot of Oncidiums, Odontoglossums,
Brassias, etc. for sale. It could just be my location as well (SF Bay
Area of California) and the fact that these suckers do well here.
I am relocating back to Illinois next month. While searching for homes
there in February, I noticed lots of Phals and quite a few Oncidiinae
there for sale as well. I read somewhere about 3 years ago that orchid
growing has come into a sort of "golden age". It seems (to me at
least) that what's in vogue with growers depends upon the tastes of
that particular grower, but Phals and Oncids seem to be all the rage.
It's all about marketing :).
-tim
RJ <bend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bo4k9uoas3ccpicnq...@4ax.com>...
CJ Maciejeski
Boy, that sadomasochistic sreak rears its head a lot with you, don't
it! LOL! Remember to bring your antennae to Redland, we need a pic
of it for the front page on OS....
K Barrett
K