Jungle Feed
keith kent
finding out what is in jungle feed ?
It is 1-0-1 , i have found out it is from a stock solution of 12.8- 4.8 -
14.5 so how do they get 1-0-1 ?
Regards Keith
keith kent
"keith kent" <kei...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:YUkim.69702$Nj5....@newsfe18.ams2...
Keith
>
>
Ray B
Read this:
Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC - www.firstrays.com
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Ray B
Dilute it about 12:1 or 13:1
12.8/12=1.07
4.8/12=0.4
14.5/12=1.21
Rounding to the nearest whole number, that's 1-0-1
Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Equipment, Books, Artwork
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-----Original Message-----
From: keith kent [mailto:kei...@ntlworld.com]
Posted At: Monday, August 17, 2009 6:33 PM
Posted To: rec.gardens.orchids
Conversation: Jungle Feed
Subject: Jungle Feed
keith kent
"Ray B" <ray...@nospam.firstrays.com> wrote in message news:000001ca2000$023fe0b0$0202fea9@fro...
Ray B
What I have learned is that most professional growers (not just orchids), control their feeding by managing the ppm N in the solution, and letting the rest of the nutrients “tag along” in the ratios of the preferred formula.
I shoot for 125 ppm N in my fertilizer solution at all times. It’s easy to determine the amount to use – just divide 10 by the %N on the label, and the result is teaspoons to add per gallon. For you sophisticated, metricated folks, divide 13 by the %N to get the ml/L.
Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC - www.firstrays.com
Orchid Plants, Supplies, Equipment, Books
Artwork, Free Services & Lots of Info!
Kenneth
> Re: Jungle FeedThanks for that Ray , i did see the orchidboard post after doing a search.
> I am going to buy the Akerne orchids feed which is basically the MSU i thinkhttp://www.akerne-orchids.com/index.htmas it is the only one available in the EU .
> As the feed is 13 -3- 15 does this mean that less feed will be required compared to the 1-0-1 .
> If so this is just what i am looking for ,as i mix up at 160lts a time sometimes and liquid feeds ,i just use too much of the stuff even to get the mix to 350ppm .
> Regards Keith
Keith,
Yes, "Akerne's RAIN MIX" is the MSU fertiliser for rainwater etc.
Our TAP MIX version is not there yet as we have trouble getting all
the ingredients, let us just say that one of the ingredients needed
can be used for other purposes.... making it very hard to near
impossible to get hold of.
Have a chat with my father at the BOGA fayre end of the month
concerning your concentration.
We go up to 550ppm for ALL our orchids (no exception) and this
includes, amongst others, anything from Disa, Cyrpipedium,
Paphiopedilum, Masdevallia over to Cattleya and Cymbidium.
kind regards,
Kenneth Bruyninckx
Akerne Orchids, Belgium
Ray B
Thanks for jumping in, Kenneth.
Even GreenCare - the folks that make the original "MSU" fertilizers - have to resort to more-expensive raw materials for the tap water formula.
The whole "dissolved solids" level discussion is hard to deal with, which is why EC or going with the nitrogen loading is more manageable.
For example, using the MSU RO formula, for 125 ppm N, adding up the weight percentages of all of the cations present gives a dissolved solids level of about 355 ppm. However, as one must add 3.55 grams of the powder to a gallon of water for 125 ppm N, that is an addition of 938 ppm.
Now I'm quite sure that all of the constituents of the mineral molecules don't contribute to the dissolved solids content - some of those are water, after all - so that suggests that the TRUE dissolved solids content is lower than that last calculation would imply, but how do you determine that?
TDS meters really are of little value, as they are just cheap EC meters with a built-in conversion factor to ppm. Unfortunately, the factor should change with the make-up of the ionic species dissolved, so it technically cannot be a single factor for all fertilizers and solutions. Let's also not forget that different manufacturers use different conversion factors! I have two - at a 125 ppm N solution, one tells me the TDS is about 480 ppm, the other 610. About all TDS meters are good for is assessing whether the solution you made up this time is different from the last time.
Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC - www.firstrays.com
Orchid Plants, Supplies, Equipment, Books
Artwork, Free Services & Lots of Info!
-----Original Message-----
From: Kenneth [mailto:ken...@akerne-orchids.com]
Posted At: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:22 AM
Posted To: rec.gardens.orchids
Conversation: Jungle Feed
Subject: Re: Jungle Feed
keith kent
"Ray B" <ray...@nospam.firstrays.com> wrote in message news:000401ca21ae$b95daa70$0202fea9@fro...
Kenneth
I meant to say that we add fertilizer to reach conductivity of 550 µS,
not 550ppm....
Kenneth.
keith kent
.
Obviously in winter watering is reduced for most plants so will get feed
less frequently .
Kenneth ,can you confirm that the 2.5 kg rain mix will be for sale at the
Boga show as i am traveling some distance so don`t want to be disapointed if
it is not .
Regards Keith
"Kenneth" <ken...@akerne-orchids.com> wrote in message
news:bf29880b-0550-4f91...@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Small, but very important correction.
I meant to say that we add fertilizer to reach conductivity of 550 �S,
not 550ppm....
Kenneth.
Ray B
Keith,
Unless you're growing stuff like Den. nobile, that needs a "winter rest" - i.e., no nitrogen whatsoever - I find it advantageous to feed year round.
In fact, all of my plants get 125 ppm N (about twice the concentration Kenneth uses) at every watering.
Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC - www.firstrays.com
Orchid Plants, Supplies, Equipment, Books
Artwork, Free Services & Lots of Info!
-----Original Message-----
From: keith kent [mailto:kei...@ntlworld.com]
Posted At: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:00 PM
Posted To: rec.gardens.orchids
Conversation: Jungle Feed
Subject: Re: Jungle Feed
I meant to say that we add fertilizer to reach conductivity of 550 µS,
not 550ppm....
Kenneth.
keith kent
Ray B
Don’t forget that the calculator you used is giving the calculated solids loading of nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium only, without regard to the other minerals in the fertilizer.
Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC - www.firstrays.com
Orchid Plants, Supplies, Equipment, Books
Artwork, Free Services & Lots of Info!
keith kent
Ray B
That’s what I do.
Let me add that if you’re growing in “normal” culture (organic media components), I would feed for 3 out of 4 waterings, water only the 4th time.
keith kent
"Ray B" <ray...@nospam.firstrays.com> wrote in message news:000001ca2574$8e7f4560$0201a8c0@fro...
Ray B
With the “rain water” formula, I believe the plants will get all they need from the fertilizer, so would not bother adding it to the flush water.
keith kent
keith kent
keith kent
"Ray B" <ray...@nospam.firstrays.com> wrote in message news:000401ca2115$50f47bb0$0201a8c0@fro...
keith kent
Ray B
You are correct that you would add 1ml of a 13%N fertilizer to one liter (litre) of water. I’ll leave the conversion to imperial gallons to you.
keith kent
"Ray B" <ray...@nospam.firstrays.com> wrote in message news:000001ca2a33$5dd8fa00$0201a8c0@fro...
keith kent
"keith kent" <kei...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:yvUmm.59454$fN.1...@newsfe09.ams2...
keith kent
"keith kent" <kei...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:1HUmm.59679$fN....@newsfe09.ams2...
Ray B
A gallon is a volume measurement – liquid or powder makes no difference.
Ray B
Keith,
A US gallon is 3.785 liters
A US teaspoon is 4.93 milliliters
An Imperial gallon is 4.546 liters
An Imperial teaspoon is 5.92 milliliters
1 US teaspoon per US gallon is 4.93ml/3.785L = 1.302 ml/L
1 Imperial teaspoon per Imperial gallon is 5.92ml/4.546L = 1.302ml/L
The ratio being identical means that 10 divided by the %N gives you the teaspoons per gallon to use for 125 ppm N, whether US or Imperial units.
As you put one Imperial teaspoon in an Imperial gallon, you used 1/0.75=1.333, or one-third more than necessary, meaning that the solution you now have is about 125 x 1.333=167 ppm N, so all you have to do is dilute it to ¾ of its current concentration for use. You could take a quart of solution out and replace it with a quart of water, or if your mixing container is large enough, add a quart plus a cup of water to the gallon.
keith kent
"Ray B" <ray...@nospam.firstrays.com> wrote in message news:000c01ca2a7a$091888e0$0201a8c0@fro...
keith kent
"Ray B" <ray...@nospam.firstrays.com> wrote in message news:000c01ca2a7a$091888e0$0201a8c0@fro...
keith kent
"keith kent" <kei...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:2Z5nm.21237$cO2....@newsfe03.ams2...
Ray B
First of all, TDS meters are rarely correct. I have two, and at a known 125 ppm N solution of the Greencare MSU RO formula, one tells me the TDS is 475, the other 600 ppm. How are we to trust either of them for absolute readings? Here’s a bit from my “EC & TDS” article:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
A TDS meter is really just an electrical conductivity (EC) meter that has a built-in conversion factor that displays the output in parts per million (ppm) of total dissolved solids (TDS). The trouble is that the relationship between the conductivity of a solution and its content varies not only by the concentration of the dissolved ions, but is also based upon the charge and mobility of the dissolved ionic species.
As a very simplified explanation of that, imagine a small ion and a large ion having the same electrical charge. The small ion will find it easier to move in the solution, so "conducts" that charge faster, so gives a higher EC for the same concentration (TDS) in the solution. Likewise, if two ions have the same size, but one has a higher charge than the other, it too will show a higher EC.
A commercial fertilizer can be made up of dozens of different chemicals, each of which ionizes and contributes to the EC of the solution, and different brands of fertilizer can use different chemicals to make up the total formula. With all of that variability, how can a single "constant" conversion factor be valid?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
That said, as you recognize, my online calculator only gives the ppm of the N, P, & K.
If you use the Greencare published chemistry, and calculate the contribution of the cations only, for 125 ppm N, the calculated TDS is for N+P+K is 265 ppm, and adding the minor elements brings the total up to about 355 ppm. However, we know that some of the anionic components contribute to the TDS, but which do and which don’t? Also, some fertilizer minerals have chemically-bound water in them, so when dissolved that water comes free but does not contribute to the conductivity or dissolved solids content.
Let’s look at it from the other end of the spectrum: according to the Greencare label, one must add 3.55g of powder to a US gallon of pure water to attain the 125 ppm N level. As a part-per-million is a milligram per kilogram, and a US gallon is 3.785 liters @ 1 kg/L, for 125 ppm N, we are actually adding 3550mg/3.785kg or 938 ppm of solids.
So now we have a calculated cation contribution of 355 ppm at one end, and a gross contribution of 938 ppm at the other. The REAL answer is somewhere in between, but I’ll be damned if I have any idea what it is, and I will not trust >>>ANY<<< TDS meter to tell me a true level anyway. (With the exception of orchid growers, professional nurserymen rely on EC of the solution, as it is directly measurable.)
Here’s the best advice you can get:
1) Trust the manufacturer.
2) Know your units.
3) Mix the recommended amount.
4) Don’t fret any longer.
If you want to use your TDS meter, do as I, and only use it as a guide. Using 1, 2, & 3 above, I measure the TDS with one of my meters – let’s use the 600 one in this example – and from then on, if I check my solution and it’s between 550 and 650, I’m happy. The actual number is meaningless, but it does allow me to measure repeatability.
Can we move on now, please?
keith kent
"keith kent" <kei...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:2q5nm.56387$Lm6....@newsfe21.ams2...
Ray B
What’s the 660 m/sm?
Why do you want to dilute it further? The recommended continuous feeding rate for the MSU RO formula is 125 ppm N. If your 0.75 tsp/gal gives you that, why change?
pak...@usenet.pr.neotoma.org
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
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> charset="iso-8859-1"
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>
> What’s the 660 m/sm?
>
> Why do you want to dilute it further? The recommended continuous
> feeding rate for the MSU RO formula is 125 ppm N. If your 0.75 tsp/gal
> gives you that, why change?
Any chance ya'll could turn off the posting with a text version and
an HTML version and trim the quotes occasionally?
While this thread has been amusing me greatly, 1588 line posts which
are mostly HTML from earlier in the thread is getting a tad insane.
And as keith has finally gone metric like a good european...
PPM Nitrogen = 1000000* ((%N/100)*((fertilizer in ml)/1000)/(container size in liters)
Cancel some zeroes
PPM Nitrogen = 10 * (%N * (fertilizer in ml))/(container size in liters)
And plug in the numbers for 125PPM nitrogen... 13%N in the fertilizer...
125 = 10 * ( 13 * (x))/1
125/130 ml/l and for sanity's sake we just round to 1ml/l.
And if Keith wants to play with the amounts for other PPMs.
PPM component*container size in l/(10*%component)= ml of fert
And if Keith absolutely must find out the TDS... the UK should have
an equivalent to an agriculture extension agency which should, for a
fee, be willing to do a full sample anlysis for him.
Color me a grouch, but these calculations are a no-brainer
in metric. And if you need to end up using screwball non-metric
units, do the unit conversion from the metric answer to the screwball
units.
And Keith... there's this wonderful Unix program called 'units'.
Here's a useful conversion for you...
You have: ml/l
You want: brteaspoon/brgallon
* 0.909218
/ 1.0998462
And another useful conversion...
You have: usteaspoon/usgallon
You want: brteaspoon/brgallon
* 1.1838776
/ 0.84468191
And now I'm off to ponder asking for a half stack of mulch...
--
Chris Dukes
Robert Lorenzini
>
> Any chance ya'll could turn off the posting with a text version and
> an HTML version and trim the quotes occasionally?
>
Please.
> And Keith... there's this wonderful Unix program called 'units'.
Found it. I wish I had it last week.
Bob
keith kent
"Ray B" <ray...@nospam.firstrays.com> wrote in message news:000401ca2b09$2a9f8d80$0201a8c0@fro...
Ray B
If it makes you feel any better, The Greencare Orchid Special for RO Water (the original so-called “MSU” fertilizer) contributes 1000µS to the EC at 125 ppm N.
keith kent
"Ray B" <ray...@nospam.firstrays.com> wrote in message news:000401ca2b09$2a9f8d80$0201a8c0@fro...
Ray B
No. I have very few pleurothallids, but lots of paphs and phrags – all in semi-hydro culture - and they grow like weeds.
For the last 8 years, my schedule has been to get up at 5, shower, dress, breakfast at 5:30, water the greenhouse, then off on a commute of 80km. At 5:30, I don’t have time to “coddle” any of my plants – they all get the same watering frequency, fertilizer concentrate, etc.
Ray Barkalow - First Rays LLC - www.firstrays.com
Orchid Plants, Supplies, Equipment, Books
Artwork, Free Services & Lots of Info!
From: keith kent [mailto:kei...@ntlworld.com]
Posted At: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 5:39 PM
Posted To: rec.gardens.orchids
Conversation: Jungle Feed
Subject: Re: Jungle Feed
Ray
Do you reduce the feed rate for pleurophallids & slipper orchids
Keith
Garrapata
>
>And Keith... there's this wonderful Unix program called 'units'.
>Here's a useful conversion for you...
and for the Unix challenged, google
toolbar also does conversions
--
09=ix