Global warming and your garden
Persephone
A vast array of physical and biological systems across the earth are
being affected by warming temperatures caused by humans, says a new
analysis of information not previously assembled all in one spot. The
effects on living things include ****earlier leafing of trees and
plants ****over many regions; movements of species to higher latitudes
and altitudes in the northern hemisphere; changes in bird migrations
in Europe, North America and Australia; and shifting of the oceans'
plankton and fish from cold- to warm-adapted communities.
-- full story >
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080514131125.htm
Any NG members notice "earlier leafing of trees and plants"?
I realize it's a very short time scale...but...
Inquiring minds...
Persephone
Bill
wrote:
We seem to be having a cooler spring. Leaves out pretty much as usual.
Look at this for weather history going back to 1945 for your area.
<http://www.wunderground.com/history/>
Enjoy!
Bill
--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
Paul E. Lehmann
On the Paul James gardening show this last weekend
he was talking about gardening in the cities. He
said that some cities have a growing zone as much
as one climate zone warmer. This is because of
Urban Heat Island effect (UHI).
I would be cautious about thinking of or planning
a garden depending on the supposed "global
warming" for every area of the United States or
the world. For example, there has been
significant crop loss for the wine industry this
spring in France and parts of California because
of cold snaps in the early spring.
Billy
wrote:
> WARMING CLIMATE IS CHANGING LIFE ON GLOBAL SCALE, SAYS NEW STUDY
Leafing, I don't know but I have tomatoes flowering, and that is very
strange on the north side of this hill.
--
Billy
Bush Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related
Katey Didd
<Persephone> wrote in message
news:482d5c1f$0$30497$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
No, I live in TN and this is one of the coolest darkest springs we've had in
years. This morning it was 58F and the heat was coming up. We never needed
heat here after May 1st before.
>
> Inquiring minds...
>
> Persephone
tstovall
that is why the name was changed to climate change from global warming.
Nothing like marketing.
~tom
"Persephone" wrote in message
news:482d5c1f$0$30497$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
aluckyguess
"tstovall" <twst...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:g0kmd...@enews2.newsguy.com...
> yep, coolest darkest wet spring. No global warming here this year, but
> then that is why the name was changed to climate change from global
> warming. Nothing like marketing.
> ~tom
people.
It will all work itself out.
Billy
wrote:
> It will all work itself out.
Sounds like the evacuation and recovery plan for New Orleans:o(
Persephone
1000 years! You gotta be kidding! Manifestations all over the world
as we speak. The tipping point is less than a decade away.
Persephone
Paul E. Lehmann
> Are you sure we haven't already reached the
> tipping point?
>
> Looked at the stars lately? Or the color of the
> sky on a "clear" day?
> They are dimmer. Global dimming. Read about
> it.
The dimmer, dimming skies are not the result of
"warming" they are the result of particulates
which if anything could cause cooling.
Yes, a lot of the particulates are the result of
burning fossil fuels, in particular coal fired
plants. A LOT of this is from CHINA who is
increasing coal burning power plants at a very
rapid pace and is also polluting the world's
oceans.
IMHO we should be a LOT more concerned about the
IMMEDIATE HEALTH effects from these carcinogens
and respiratory damaging agents than the "global
warming hypothesis" which can not be
differentiated between natural cycles and the
extent to which man is contributing.
In other words, we need to do some triage and
solve the most important issue first, If we do
this, the CO2 issue will also be solved.
The plant world is a lot more sensitive to things
like acid rain, heavy metal poisoning from
contaminated air and water than the CO2 which it
needs to grow and make oxygen.
>
> No matter, nothing, absofuckinglutely nothing,
> will be done in time to
> mitigate. Yet we will fight on.
>
> Charlie
J. Clarke
Remember that you said that when the glacier rolls over your house.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Billy
"J. Clarke" <jclarke...@cox.net> wrote:
> > On Fri, 16 May 2008 18:10:02 -0700, "aluckyguess" <n...@me.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> "tstovall" <twst...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:g0kmd...@enews2.newsguy.com...
> >>> yep, coolest darkest wet spring. No global warming here this
> >>> year,
> >>> but then that is why the name was changed to climate change from
> >>> global warming. Nothing like marketing.
> >>> ~tom
> >> We wont know anything for another 1000 years, then there will be to
> >> many people.
> >> It will all work itself out.
> >>
> > 1000 years! You gotta be kidding! Manifestations all over the
> > world
> > as we speak. The tipping point is less than a decade away.
>
> Remember that you said that when the glacier rolls over your house.
>
> --
Maybe we should tell the EPA. hey just listed the polar bear as an
endangered species because of polar warming. Actually, glaciers should
be on the same list. Glaciers are fast disappearing which is bas news
because instead of reflecting sunlight back into space, when the glacier
is gone the sunlight (heat) gets absorbed by the planet and accelerates
the heating.
aluckyguess
Billy
wrote:
> From what I read lately we should be more worried about global cooling.
You need to improve your reading material. What does disappearing
ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica (not to mention the attendant
200' rise in ocean levels) suggest to you? Heating or cooling? Hmmm?
Paul E. Lehmann
> In article <muFXj.17$aq...@newsfe05.lga>,
> "aluckyguess" <n...@me.com> wrote:
>
>> From what I read lately we should be more
>> worried about global cooling.
>
> You need to improve your reading material. What
> does disappearing ice sheets in Greenland and
> Antarctica (not to mention the attendant 200'
> rise in ocean levels) suggest to you? Heating or
> cooling? Hmmm?
What did it mean during the time of Eric the Red
and the other Viking explorers. It ain't the
first time it has happened.
Bill
wrote:
> From what I read lately we should be more worried about global cooling.
As I with a feeble mind looks at this stuff. The increase of heat has
caused much of the ice about to melt. The recently melted ice no longer
reflects energy back so it warms things up a bit.
Then why the cool spring?
Well the ice that melted flows into the ocean where the salt content is
lowered. No big deal but the ocean as a heat sink is reduced hence
wider shifts in temperature fluctuations.
Bill
Next URL is the devil Al Gore
<http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/243>
Next Url is the best we got
<http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publications/warmi<ng_earth/>
--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
Neat place .. http://www.petersvalley.org/
http://www.saltspringseeds.com/
Bill
<b2forewagner-377D...@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Bill <b2fore...@snip.net> wrote:
> <http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publications/warmi<ng_earth/>
I'm Sorry but this url seems to take us to a larger agenda.
This may be more to our topic.
<http://whrc.org/carbon/index.htm>
Bill
Bill
> In article <muFXj.17$aq...@newsfe05.lga>, "aluckyguess" <n...@me.com>
> wrote:
>
> > From what I read lately we should be more worried about global cooling.
>
> As I with a feeble mind looks at this stuff. The increase of heat has
> caused much of the ice about to melt. The recently melted ice no longer
> reflects energy back so it warms things up a bit.
> Then why the cool spring?
> Well the ice that melted flows into the ocean where the salt content is
> lowered. No big deal but the ocean as a heat sink is reduced hence
> wider shifts in temperature fluctuations.
>
> Bill
>
> Next URL is the devil Al Gore
>
> <http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/243>
>
> Next Url is the best we got
>
> <http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publications/warmi<ng_earth/>
Mistake here.
<http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publications/warming_earth/>
Bill
Omelet
wrote:
> From what I read lately we should be more worried about global cooling.
Global warming leads to Ice Ages.
Watch the movie "The Day After Tomorrow".
It's scientifically accurate.
Seriously.
--
Peace! Om
"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein
Omelet
<wildbilly-C9BC7...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
Billy <wild...@getthe.net> wrote:
> In article <muFXj.17$aq...@newsfe05.lga>, "aluckyguess" <n...@me.com>
> wrote:
>
> > From what I read lately we should be more worried about global cooling.
>
> You need to improve your reading material. What does disappearing
> ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica (not to mention the attendant
> 200' rise in ocean levels) suggest to you? Heating or cooling? Hmmm?
Billy.
He is right.
Global warming leads to ice ages.
June
rhododendrons started blooming a week ago! That's early for us. My
irises started blooming over a week ago and I have a lot of other
perennials blooming as well.
Last year we had just warm temperatures in December that the forsythia
bloomed. Then in early spring we had a week or more of temperatures in
the high 70's and 80's. That was followed by a week of hard frost and
the whole area lost all the fruit on the fruit trees. I also a
Japanese Maple and a bunch of roses that were already in leaf. I
thought I lost a second Japanese maple; and in a sense I did. Because
when it finally showed some life, the shoots were from below the graft
line, so I don't expect to get the same tree as I had before. I also
thought it killed my hibiscus, since the whole top appeared dead; but
this spring it's sending some life from the base. When I thought it
was dead I replaced it. Now I have two!
Regards,
June
Bill
wrote:
> WARMING CLIMATE IS CHANGING LIFE ON GLOBAL SCALE, SAYS NEW STUDY
Prince Charles an organic gardener weighs in.
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/theroyalfamily/1961719/Prince
-Charles-Eighteen-months-to-stop-climate-change-disaster.html>
Billy
Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <muFXj.17$aq...@newsfe05.lga>, "aluckyguess" <n...@me.com>
> wrote:
>
> > From what I read lately we should be more worried about global cooling.
>
> Global warming leads to Ice Ages.
>
> Watch the movie "The Day After Tomorrow".
>
> It's scientifically accurate.
>
> Seriously.
In fact, the respected magazine Science has reviewed this Pentagon
report and the alleged scientific support for The Day After Tomorrow and
concludes that "it is highly unlikely that global warming will lead to a
widespread collapse" of the Gulf Stream, and
"it is safe to say that global warming will not lead to the onset of a
new Ice Age".
In Nature, another highly-respected scientific journal, a researcher
finds that halting the Gulf Stream would be impossible, arguing that
"the only way to produce an ocean circulation without the Gulf Stream
would be to turn off the wind system or stop the Earth's rotation, or
both."
Now, although it is not going to kill us the day after tomorrow, global
warming certainly is a reality. It is caused at least partly by
mankind's use of fossil fuels. The effects will be predominantly adverse
- although high-latitude nations might prosper in a warmer world,
tropical countries will have to deal with more heat-days, altered
precipitation and higher sea-levels. So what is wrong with using a piece
of popular entertainment to campaign for action to save people from
that? As the Nasa research oceanographer William Patzert says: "The
science is bad, but perhaps it's an opportunity to crank up the dialogue
on our role in climate change."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/05/09/do0
903.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/05/09/ixportal.html
It would be futile for me to try and refute the "nay-sayers" of "Global
Warming", as is common in science and nature, there is
contradictory evidence, some from erroneous measurements, some from
oddities that can happen over a 500 million year of the geological
record. Most of the quibbling comes from the use of models
as predictors of future events. Models use hundreds of presumptions
(premises) and not everyone can agree on the same presumptions.
The other argument is that science isn't science unless you can do it in
a lab and get reproducible results. Obviously modeling the spread of a
contagious disease, the effectiveness of a nuclear war head design.
or the interaction of solar radiation variations and greenhouse gas
concentrations can't be done in a lab but they can be approximated
by computer models. The vast majority of the physical scientists
believe that "Global Warming" is a fact but dither on putting
a time table to it. The warm water passage that is developing in
the Arctic, the melting of the ice sheets in Greenland and Antartica,
coupled with the dramatic decrease in size of the worlds glaciers
have many scientists on edge and they are talking of tipping points were
the heating will be come irreversible leading to hellish repercussions
as imagined by Steven Hawking
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2006-06-22-hawking-warming_x.htm
and others
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=1&articleID=00037A5D-
A938-150E-A93883414B7F0000
Now you may say that this is an alarmist attitude to take, but if we act
and "Global Warming" doesn't happen, then we look silly.
If we don't act, and "Global Warming" is real, which again, most
scientists believe is true, it could lead to another mass extinction,
including humanity.
Which bet would you rather lose?
aluckyguess
as we know it. Cars are changing, hybrids air cars, magnet generators.
http://green.yahoo.com/blog/ecogeek/66/air-car-ready-for-mass-production.html
We will see big changes. That's why I say it will all work it self out. We
cant hurt the earth we can only hurt ourself.
Omelet
<wildbilly-20CF5...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
Billy <wild...@getthe.net> wrote:
> If we don't act, and "Global Warming" is real, which again, most
> scientists believe is true, it could lead to another mass extinction,
> including humanity.
>
> Which bet would you rather lose?
> --
>
> Billy
Exactly. ;-)
The thing is, is it a normal, cyclical anomaly or is it really our fault?
Omelet
wrote:
Running out of oil will be a gift...
jellybean stonerfish
> In article
> <wildbilly-20CF5...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
> Billy <wild...@getthe.net> wrote:
>
>> If we don't act, and "Global Warming" is real, which again, most
>> scientists believe is true, it could lead to another mass extinction,
>> including humanity.
>>
>> Which bet would you rather lose?
>> --
>>
>> Billy
>
> Exactly. ;-)
>
> The thing is, is it a normal, cyclical anomaly or is it really our
> fault?
Even if we are not causing global warming, we are killing the planet.
It is almost like the media is constantly reminding us of this
overheating so we will forget about the other ways we are hurting the
earth: land overuse, water diversion, recreational vehicles, factory
farms, disposable everything, fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides,
medicines, paints, solvents, logging... need I go on.
stonerfish
Billy
wrote:
> This is all interesting to read. I think we run out of oil in 10 years, oil
The United States has a 300-year supply of coal, if it continues to use
it at the same rate as today.
http://www.teachcoal.org/aboutcoal/articles/coalppf.html
And of course, China wants to join the unsustainable 1st World, and will
be bringing new coal burning electrical plants on line until 2030.
Ain't no joy in Mudville "lucky".
Billy
Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article
> <wildbilly-20CF5...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
> Billy <wild...@getthe.net> wrote:
>
> > If we don't act, and "Global Warming" is real, which again, most
> > scientists believe is true, it could lead to another mass extinction,
> > including humanity.
> >
> > Which bet would you rather lose?
> > --
> >
> > Billy
>
> Exactly. ;-)
>
> The thing is, is it a normal, cyclical anomaly or is it really our fault?
Like in those disaster movies, if we don't succeed, whose fault it is
will be moot.
Billy
jellybean stonerfish <stone...@geocities.com> wrote:
Recreational vehicles, disposable everything (plastic), packaging,
fertilizer, pesticides, and herbicides are petroleum based.
Omelet
jellybean stonerfish <stone...@geocities.com> wrote:
Good point.
Omelet
<wildbilly-06C8C...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
Billy <wild...@getthe.net> wrote:
> In article <ompomelet-8154F...@news.giganews.com>,
> Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <wildbilly-20CF5...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
> > Billy <wild...@getthe.net> wrote:
> >
> > > If we don't act, and "Global Warming" is real, which again, most
> > > scientists believe is true, it could lead to another mass extinction,
> > > including humanity.
> > >
> > > Which bet would you rather lose?
> > > --
> > >
> > > Billy
> >
> > Exactly. ;-)
> >
> > The thing is, is it a normal, cyclical anomaly or is it really our fault?
>
> Like in those disaster movies, if we don't succeed, whose fault it is
> will be moot.
> --
>
> Billy
But if it IS cyclical and not controllable, it's better to just prepare
rather than whine about it.
enigma
news:ompomelet-2A203...@news.giganews.com:
> But if it IS cyclical and not controllable, it's better to
> just prepare rather than whine about it.
even if it's partly our fault (which i'm sure it is, along
with the cyclical), it's better to prepare than whine about
it.
people in the US (& most industrialized countries) have this
"manifest destiny" thing going on... entitlement. living
beyond their means, in as grand & wasteful a manner as
possible.
plus no one teaches practical knowledge in schools anymore.
lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.
Bill
wrote:
> WARMING CLIMATE IS CHANGING LIFE ON GLOBAL SCALE, SAYS NEW STUDY
> A vast array of physical and biological systems across the earth are
> being affected by warming temperatures caused by humans, says a new
> analysis of information not previously assembled all in one spot. The
> effects on living things include ****earlier leafing of trees and
> plants ****over many regions; movements of species to higher latitudes
> and altitudes in the northern hemisphere; changes in bird migrations
> in Europe, North America and Australia; and shifting of the oceans'
> plankton and fish from cold- to warm-adapted communities.
> -- full story >
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080514131125.htm
>
> Any NG members notice "earlier leafing of trees and plants"?
> I realize it's a very short time scale...but...
>
> Inquiring minds...
>
> Persephone
Neat tool deals with drought.
<http://www.droughtscore.com/>
Bill
Billy
Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article
> <wildbilly-06C8C...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
> Billy <wild...@getthe.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <ompomelet-8154F...@news.giganews.com>,
> > Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In article
> > > <wildbilly-20CF5...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
> > > Billy <wild...@getthe.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > If we don't act, and "Global Warming" is real, which again, most
> > > > scientists believe is true, it could lead to another mass extinction,
> > > > including humanity.
> > > >
> > > > Which bet would you rather lose?
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Billy
> > >
> > > Exactly. ;-)
> > >
> > > The thing is, is it a normal, cyclical anomaly or is it really our fault?
> >
> > Like in those disaster movies, if we don't succeed, whose fault it is
> > will be moot.
> > --
> >
> > Billy
>
> But if it IS cyclical and not controllable, it's better to just prepare
> rather than whine about it.
People are only whining about it because President Monkey Smirk
hasn't taken the initiative. Part of preparing for it, is remediating
the problem, not exacerbating the problem. If it really is a problem of
"Titanic" proportions, then we're screwed because there is no place to
run. We may even set a record for mass extinctions, and take everything
with us. The idea is so over the top, we can't deal with it, and just
keep pulling our weeds and stomping our snails, trying to put it out of
our minds. We will all be long gone before the caca hits the fan,
but what preparations can you make for 250C temps and sulfuric acid rain?
It all boils down to the maximizing profits for the next quarter and
thirty years from now, will sort itself out on its' own, i.e. bad
management.
Omelet
enigma <eni...@evil.net> wrote:
> Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:ompomelet-2A203...@news.giganews.com:
>
>
> > But if it IS cyclical and not controllable, it's better to
> > just prepare rather than whine about it.
>
> even if it's partly our fault (which i'm sure it is, along
> with the cyclical), it's better to prepare than whine about
> it.
> people in the US (& most industrialized countries) have this
> "manifest destiny" thing going on... entitlement. living
> beyond their means, in as grand & wasteful a manner as
> possible.
> plus no one teaches practical knowledge in schools anymore.
> lee
VERY accurate statement. :-)
We try to conserve and recycle wherever practical for a start.
How many kids nowadays know (or care about) what local plants are edible
if you ever had to survive?
Omelet
<wildbilly-160DF...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
Billy <wild...@getthe.net> wrote:
> > But if it IS cyclical and not controllable, it's better to just prepare
> > rather than whine about it.
>
> People are only whining about it because President Monkey Smirk
> hasn't taken the initiative. Part of preparing for it, is remediating
> the problem, not exacerbating the problem. If it really is a problem of
> "Titanic" proportions, then we're screwed because there is no place to
> run. We may even set a record for mass extinctions, and take everything
> with us. The idea is so over the top, we can't deal with it, and just
> keep pulling our weeds and stomping our snails, trying to put it out of
> our minds. We will all be long gone before the caca hits the fan,
> but what preparations can you make for 250C temps and sulfuric acid rain?
> It all boils down to the maximizing profits for the next quarter and
> thirty years from now, will sort itself out on its' own, i.e. bad
> management.
> --
>
> Billy
The planet will survive...
one way or another. ;-)
Billy
> Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:ompomelet-2A203...@news.giganews.com:
>
>
> > But if it IS cyclical and not controllable, it's better to
> > just prepare rather than whine about it.
>
> even if it's partly our fault (which i'm sure it is, along
> with the cyclical), it's better to prepare than whine about
> it.
Prepare for the worst, and hope for the best.
> people in the US (& most industrialized countries) have this
> "manifest destiny" thing going on... entitlement. living
> beyond their means, in as grand & wasteful a manner as
> possible.
Our infotainment media keeps Americans pretty well insulated from
reality. I don't think most Americans have any idea about how
wasteful we are. There certainly is a percentage of Americans who
think we have a "manifest destiny" (even though it is beginning
to look like the same one the lemmings have) an entitlement to rule the
planet. Unfortunately for them, even relatively frugal western
Europe is going to have a hard time managing its' life style. Wars
certainly aren't the answer, India and Pakistan are highly populated
and nuclear armed. A war there would leave only a few humans to face
the fruition of our industrial age, based on fossil fuel.
> plus no one teaches practical knowledge in schools anymore.
Some do but most of the manufacturing jobs have been out sourced.
http://www.rop.scoe.org/
> lee
Persephone
wrote:
>In article
><wildbilly-160DF...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
> Billy <wild...@getthe.net> wrote:
>
>> > But if it IS cyclical and not controllable, it's better to just prepare
>> > rather than whine about it.
>>
>> People are only whining about it because President Monkey Smirk
Priceless!!!
The smirk comes up early in new book about our newest "dynasty".
Jacob Weisberg, editor of Slate on-line mag, has written
"The Bush Tragedy", which traces the Prescott, Bush and Walker
families several generations back. VERY interesting analysis
which goes deep into the Oedipal factor, and shows that W. is
a throwback to the Walker side, rather than the Bush side.
Highly recommended for those interested not only in how America has
been brought low, but also in our current topic, climate change: How
leadership can either ameliorate or exacerbate the phenomenon.
Persephone
Bill
wrote:
Some reviews of the book here.
<http://www.amazon.com/Bush-Tragedy-Jacob-Weisberg/dp/1400066786>
One Way or Another 3:36 Blondie
Bill :))
Omelet
<b2forewagner-1A20...@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Bill <b2fore...@snip.net> wrote:
> > >The planet will survive...
> > >
> > >one way or another. ;-)
>
> Some reviews of the book here.
>
> <http://www.amazon.com/Bush-Tragedy-Jacob-Weisberg/dp/1400066786>
>
>
> One Way or Another 3:36 Blondie
>
> Bill :))
A good book for historians in a few years?
<g>
tstovall
"Persephone" wrote in message
news:482d5c1f$0$30497$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
> WARMING CLIMATE IS CHANGING LIFE ON GLOBAL SCALE, SAYS NEW STUDY
> A vast array of physical and biological systems across the earth are
> being affected by warming temperatures caused by humans, says a new
> analysis of information not previously assembled all in one spot. The
> effects on living things include ****earlier leafing of trees and
> plants ****over many regions; movements of species to higher latitudes
> and altitudes in the northern hemisphere; changes in bird migrations
> in Europe, North America and Australia; and shifting of the oceans'
> plankton and fish from cold- to warm-adapted communities.
> -- full story >
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080514131125.htm
>
> Any NG members notice "earlier leafing of trees and plants"?
> I realize it's a very short time scale...but...
>
> Inquiring minds...
>
> Persephone
Aren't most of the people of this NG already contributing greatly to reduce
Global Warming? We all (or at least want to) GARDEN and many of this list
will apply to most of the gardeners.
1. Organic Growers aren't using (much) fertilizers, insecticides or
pesticides.
2. Some Gardeners don't use any gasoline or fuels.
3. We strive to figure out ways to use water the most efficient way.
4. Any produce we grow means that it doesn't have to be transported from far
away.
5. For the many that compost, we are giving the landfills less.
6. Many vegetable gardeners successive and some extend their seasons.
7. If we plant enough flowers and trees, we are trying to offset the buring
of the Amazon rainforests.
8. Our efforts do not require taxpayer money and our efforts from the
millions of gardeners world wide probably do more than all the government
programs anyway.
Gardeners Forever!
~tom
Billy
Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com> wrote:
It's that other way that has me nervous. Hey ya know, how it goes, you
never know what you got till it's gone, you take Paradise and put up a
parking lot.
Cool back to square one, except this time these is already a lot of
hydrolyzed amino acids floating around. That should be helpful;o))
Billy
wrote:
> On Mon, 19 May 2008 09:16:18 -0500, Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In article
> ><wildbilly-160DF...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
> > Billy <wild...@getthe.net> wrote:
> >
> >> > But if it IS cyclical and not controllable, it's better to just prepare
> >> > rather than whine about it.
> >>
> >> People are only whining about it because President Monkey Smirk
>
>
> Priceless!!!
>
> The smirk comes up early in new book about our newest "dynasty".
>
> Jacob Weisberg, editor of Slate on-line mag, has written
>
> "The Bush Tragedy", which traces the Prescott, Bush and Walker
> families several generations back. VERY interesting analysis
> which goes deep into the Oedipal factor, and shows that W. is
> a throwback to the Walker side, rather than the Bush side.
Even the knuckle draggers start walking away when the provenance of
President Monkey Smirk is about to be alloted.
>
> Highly recommended for those interested not only in how America has
> been brought low, but also in our current topic, climate change: How
> leadership can either ameliorate or exacerbate the phenomenon.
>
> Persephone
>
> >> hasn't taken the initiative. Part of preparing for it, is remediating
> >> the problem, not exacerbating the problem. If it really is a problem of
> >> "Titanic" proportions, then we're screwed because there is no place to
> >> run. We may even set a record for mass extinctions, and take everything
> >> with us. The idea is so over the top, we can't deal with it, and just
> >> keep pulling our weeds and stomping our snails, trying to put it out of
> >> our minds. We will all be long gone before the caca hits the fan,
> >> but what preparations can you make for 250C temps and sulfuric acid rain?
> >> It all boils down to the maximizing profits for the next quarter and
> >> thirty years from now, will sort itself out on its' own, i.e. bad
> >> management.
> >> --
> >>
> >> Billy
> >
> >The planet will survive...
> >
> >one way or another. ;-)
Billy
Always one of my favorites. Unfortunately, I only have it on vinyl.
Billy
Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article
> <b2forewagner-1A20...@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
> Bill <b2fore...@snip.net> wrote:
>
> > > >The planet will survive...
> > > >
> > > >one way or another. ;-)
> >
> > Some reviews of the book here.
> >
> > <http://www.amazon.com/Bush-Tragedy-Jacob-Weisberg/dp/1400066786>
> >
> >
> > One Way or Another 3:36 Blondie
> >
> > Bill :))
>
> A good book for historians in a few years?
>
> <g>
Sure to make the beers go down quicker;-(
enigma
news:wildbilly-A30D1...@c-61-68-245-199.per.conne
ct.net.au:
> In article <Xns9AA3456864C9...@199.125.85.9>,
> enigma <eni...@evil.net> wrote:
>
>> Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:ompomelet-2A203...@news.giganews.com:
>>
>>
>> > But if it IS cyclical and not controllable, it's better
>> > to just prepare rather than whine about it.
>>
>> even if it's partly our fault (which i'm sure it is,
>> along
>> with the cyclical), it's better to prepare than whine
>> about it.
> Prepare for the worst, and hope for the best.
pretty much...
>> people in the US (& most industrialized countries) have
>> this
>> "manifest destiny" thing going on... entitlement. living
>> beyond their means, in as grand & wasteful a manner as
>> possible.
> Our infotainment media keeps Americans pretty well
> insulated from reality. I don't think most Americans have
> any idea about how wasteful we are. There certainly is a
> percentage of Americans who think we have a "manifest
> destiny" (even though it is beginning to look like the same
> one the lemmings have) an entitlement to rule the planet.
hey now! don't go dissing the lemmings! that bad rap about
jumping off cliffs was entirely generated by a bored Disney
camera crew doing a "documentary". they *chased* those poor
leemings over the cliff to their deaths. Disney has a lot to
answer for...
i find it sad, but amusing that over 75% of houses i am
seeing for sale have such rediculous (for the northeast
anyway) features as 'cathedral ceilings'. can you say 'heat
sink'?
i'm looking into a modular type house to put on that abutting
lot (if i buy it. the present house is beyond fixer-upper, but
the heirs think they can sell it as habitable. i'm going to
offer them 40k. 50k if they do the demolition. no way is that
place going to get a loan as is). it's near impossible to find
a less than 1000 sq.ft. 2 bedroom, one bath plan... bigger is
all over, with huge amounts of wasted space.
>> plus no one teaches practical knowledge in schools
>> anymore.
> Some do but most of the manufacturing jobs have been out
> sourced. http://www.rop.scoe.org/
i was thinking more along the lines of self-sufficiency:
gardening, mechanics, assorted handcraft arts (pottery,
basketry, woodworking, sewing, plumbing), a solid, practical
mathmatics base, critical thinking... stuff like that.
Billy
enigma <eni...@evil.net> wrote:
The site shows landscaping, and I've seen auto mechanics being taught.
Practical mathmatics base, critical thinking... stuff like that,
would probably put you on a college track. It hasn't helped my
earnings but has allowed me to step in and out of the labor market.
Your post on getting a drop spindle made me redouble my efforts and I've
ordered an Ashford Student Spindle, bottom whorl model that can also be
used as a top whorl, 2.8 oz., 12" shaft and 3" whorl.
I may have some questions. Could you write to me at
willia...@yahoo.com so I don't need to clutter up the gardening group.
I think I mentioned that 5 tromboncinis have come up, plus 4 bitter
melons. The heat is back in the 70's today and the peanuts seem stuck in
getting all the way up. The year is looking good, just getting impatient
with some of my tomatoes, seems like they are taking forever. The ones
in the ground are growing quickly though. Everything that had a brush
with the damping off seems to being having difficulties. Think I need to
repot again.
aluckyguess
"Billy" <wild...@getthe.net> wrote in message
news:wildbilly-BB8AD...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au...
> In article <Vh4Yj.87$Kl1...@newsfe02.lga>, "aluckyguess" <n...@me.com>
> wrote:
>
>> This is all interesting to read. I think we run out of oil in 10 years,
>> oil
>> as we know it. Cars are changing, hybrids air cars, magnet generators.
>> http://green.yahoo.com/blog/ecogeek/66/air-car-ready-for-mass-production.html
>>
>> We will see big changes. That's why I say it will all work it self out.
>> We
>> cant hurt the earth we can only hurt ourself.
>
> The United States has a 300-year supply of coal, if it continues to use
> it at the same rate as today.
> http://www.teachcoal.org/aboutcoal/articles/coalppf.html
a relatively short time when you think about it.
>
> And of course, China wants to join the unsustainable 1st World, and will
> be bringing new coal burning electrical plants on line until 2030.
>
when oil is gone there will be new technologies to fix a lot of the
problems. Think of all the patents the oil company's probably have locked
up.
> Ain't no joy in Mudville "lucky".
There might be some joy down the road but thats just a guess and lets hope I
get lucky.
Jangchub
wrote:
>Even the knuckle draggers start walking away when the provenance of
>President Monkey Smirk is about to be alloted.
Did you see the new Dish Network commercial where the actor portrays
shrub and he is showing a remote control for the dish and he says,
(paraphrase) "There's this button pawzay; that's French for stop!" The
button was actually pause.
I laughed out loud at that one.
My grandmother was a VP at the notorious Walker family empire. She
worked on Wall Street for fourty years at G.H. Walker (no longer
exists). Hey, at least she got to use the lux box at Shea Stadium!
She's long gone after 96 years of life. They still send a Christmas
card.
mleblanca
> In article <Xns9AA3456864C96enigmaempire...@199.125.85.9>,
>
>
>
> enigma <eni...@evil.net> wrote:
> > Omelet <ompome...@gmail.com> wrote in
Many kids and their parents are interested. Our Native Plant Society
has a " wildflower show" every other year. We always have a native
teas and edible plant display. It is always very popular and kids are
fascinated with the idea. One member, a retired biology prof has
Indian Useful and Edible plant walks that are very well attended by
40-50 people including kids.
The problem is the teachers can't take time to teach it......they're
too busy teaching and giving those mandatory tests associated
with that "no child left behind" silliness. No time for the things
that
make kids WANT to learn.
Emilie
Jan Flora
wrote:
> WARMING CLIMATE IS CHANGING LIFE ON GLOBAL SCALE, SAYS NEW STUDY
> A vast array of physical and biological systems across the earth are
> being affected by warming temperatures caused by humans, says a new
> analysis of information not previously assembled all in one spot. The
> effects on living things include ****earlier leafing of trees and
> plants ****over many regions; movements of species to higher latitudes
> and altitudes in the northern hemisphere; changes in bird migrations
> in Europe, North America and Australia; and shifting of the oceans'
> plankton and fish from cold- to warm-adapted communities.
> -- full story >
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080514131125.htm
>
> Any NG members notice "earlier leafing of trees and plants"?
> I realize it's a very short time scale...but...
>
> Inquiring minds...
>
> Persephone
We're having another spring that's three weeks late, so far. We've been
keeping weather records and recording migratory bird arrivals, the date
the ice goes out on the lakes and creeks here, leaf-out on trees,
various plant indicators and soil temps, etc. for 60 years. Last year
and this year are the coldest springs since 1959 and 1964. Those were
bad ones, too. The snow went off my garden beds yesterday. Normal ice
out on our lake is May 15. We still have 100% ice coverage. Etc.
Jan in Alaska
enigma
news:24f4eb1a-a676-4018...@i76g2000hsf.googlegr
oups.com:
> The problem is the teachers can't
> take time to teach it......they're too busy teaching and
> giving those mandatory tests associated with that "no
> child left behind" silliness. No time for the things that
> make kids WANT to learn.
which is why my child goes to a Montessori school. i'm all
for the child-led learning, advance at your own speed thing
(my 7.5 year old is doing division & adding & subtracting
fraction, which is 4th grade material in our local public
school)
Dioclese
news:482e7e0f$0$12973$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 18:10:02 -0700, "aluckyguess" <n...@me.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"tstovall" <twst...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:g0kmd...@enews2.newsguy.com...
>>> yep, coolest darkest wet spring. No global warming here this year, but
>>> then that is why the name was changed to climate change from global
>>> warming. Nothing like marketing.
>>> ~tom
>>We wont know anything for another 1000 years, then there will be to many
>>people.
>>It will all work itself out.
>>
> 1000 years! You gotta be kidding! Manifestations all over the world
> as we speak. The tipping point is less than a decade away.
>
> Persephone
William Shatner pretty well summed it up on a CNN show. He said the vast
majority of our problems are due to the planet's overpopulation, including
global warming. He also commented on Congress demanding vehicles get 35 mpg
or better by 2012. He said 55 mpg is more appropriate. I'm in agreement
because economy vehicles made 20 years ago were getting around 35 mpg.
--
Dave
Dioclese
"Omelet" <ompo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ompomelet-151B8...@news.giganews.com...
> In article <muFXj.17$aq...@newsfe05.lga>, "aluckyguess" <n...@me.com>
> wrote:
>
>> From what I read lately we should be more worried about global cooling.
>
> Global warming leads to Ice Ages.
>
> Watch the movie "The Day After Tomorrow".
>
> It's scientifically accurate.
>
> Seriously.
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> "Human nature seems to be to control other people
> until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein
Either way, the food supply is at risk... We live in a very precarious
world for climate to support plants we live on.
--
Dave
Jangchub
wrote:
>mleblanca <mleb...@aol.com> wrote in
>news:24f4eb1a-a676-4018...@i76g2000hsf.googlegr
>oups.com:
>
>> The problem is the teachers can't
>> take time to teach it......they're too busy teaching and
>> giving those mandatory tests associated with that "no
>> child left behind" silliness. No time for the things that
>> make kids WANT to learn.
>
> which is why my child goes to a Montessori school. i'm all
>for the child-led learning, advance at your own speed thing
>(my 7.5 year old is doing division & adding & subtracting
>fraction, which is 4th grade material in our local public
>school)
>lee
I don't think we should have any public schools at all. I think
people who have children should be the ones who pay for school. I'm
pretty sick of forking over 3,000 dollars a year to school tax so they
can build a better football stadium. In Texas, highschool football is
on the local news. They also teach to the test. My nieces are two of
the dumbest, dullards I know.
Dioclese
> In article <Vh4Yj.87$Kl1...@newsfe02.lga>, "aluckyguess" <n...@me.com>
> wrote:
>
>> This is all interesting to read. I think we run out of oil in 10 years,
>> oil
>> as we know it. Cars are changing, hybrids air cars, magnet generators.
>> http://green.yahoo.com/blog/ecogeek/66/air-car-ready-for-mass-production.html
>>
>> We will see big changes. That's why I say it will all work it self out.
>> We
>> cant hurt the earth we can only hurt ourself.
>
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> "Human nature seems to be to control other people
> until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein
Just don't try setting any examples by tying your horse to one of the
bollards in front of the grocery store.
Ah, a world without oil. Just look around in your or almost anyone else's
home, its plastic. A widely overlooked thing is the insulation on cables
and wires. Another overlooked example is in alot of cases, the feedwater
outside of the home and all wastewater pipe is plastic. Yes, there's other
substitutes requiring other natural resources. But, not enough to suit the
numbers required today, let alone tomorrow.
--
Dave
jellybean stonerfish
> I don't think we should have any public schools at all. I think people
> who have children should be the ones who pay for school. I'm pretty
> sick of forking over 3,000 dollars a year to school tax so they can
> build a better football stadium. In Texas, highschool football is on
> the local news. They also teach to the test. My nieces are two of the
> dumbest, dullards I know.
Yeah, only the rich should get an edjumacation. Then all us poor folk
can mow your lawns.
enigma
news:chi5349uqr4r7jk57...@4ax.com:
> I don't think we should have any public schools at all. I
> think people who have children should be the ones who pay
> for school. I'm pretty sick of forking over 3,000 dollars
> a year to school tax so they can build a better football
> stadium. In Texas, highschool football is on the local
> news. They also teach to the test. My nieces are two of
> the dumbest, dullards I know.
i agree that *far* too much is wasted on sports like football
& baseball that only benefits a few students (school spirit my
ass). if parents want their kid in sports, they should be the
ones that pay. the taxes should only go for academics & arts.
i pay for my son's education, but i also pay school taxes for
those who can't afford private school. i just resent paying
for stupid things like football uniforms (especially when the
girl's teams have to hold fundraisers to get their
equipment!).
enigma
news:PiAYj.9253$nl7....@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com:
no, the poor folks should be getting better education, not
the NCLB dumb-it-down bullcaca
Billy
<24f4eb1a-a676-4018...@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
mleblanca <mleb...@aol.com> wrote:
Indeed. I was a poor learner until I found something I wanted to learn.
Billy
wrote:
> "Billy" <wild...@getthe.net> wrote in message
> news:wildbilly-BB8AD...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au...
> > In article <Vh4Yj.87$Kl1...@newsfe02.lga>, "aluckyguess" <n...@me.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> This is all interesting to read. I think we run out of oil in 10 years,
> >> oil
> >> as we know it. Cars are changing, hybrids air cars, magnet generators.
> >> http://green.yahoo.com/blog/ecogeek/66/air-car-ready-for-mass-production.ht
> >> ml
> >>
> >> We will see big changes. That's why I say it will all work it self out.
> >> We
> >> cant hurt the earth we can only hurt ourself.
> >
> > The United States has a 300-year supply of coal, if it continues to use
> > it at the same rate as today.
> > http://www.teachcoal.org/aboutcoal/articles/coalppf.html
>
> a relatively short time when you think about it.
> >
> > And of course, China wants to join the unsustainable 1st World, and will
> > be bringing new coal burning electrical plants on line until 2030.
> >
> when oil is gone there will be new technologies to fix a lot of the
> problems. Think of all the patents the oil company's probably have locked
> up.
>
The one that worries me the most (along with the terminator
gene) is the gene that would have corn grow plastic.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/plastic.html
Omelet
<wildbilly-FD6A8...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
Billy <wild...@getthe.net> wrote:
> > The planet will survive...
> >
> > one way or another. ;-)
>
> It's that other way that has me nervous. Hey ya know, how it goes, you
> never know what you got till it's gone, you take Paradise and put up a
> parking lot.
> Cool back to square one, except this time these is already a lot of
> hydrolyzed amino acids floating around. That should be helpful;o))
> --
>
> Billy
Mother nature does not care about man...
She's a bitch that way.
Omelet
> > We try to conserve and recycle wherever practical for a start.
> > How many kids nowadays know (or care about) what local plants are edible
> > if you ever had to survive?
>
> Many kids and their parents are interested. Our Native Plant Society
> has a " wildflower show" every other year. We always have a native
> teas and edible plant display. It is always very popular and kids are
> fascinated with the idea. One member, a retired biology prof has
> Indian Useful and Edible plant walks that are very well attended by
> 40-50 people including kids.
> The problem is the teachers can't take time to teach it......they're
> too busy teaching and giving those mandatory tests associated
> with that "no child left behind" silliness. No time for the things
> that
> make kids WANT to learn.
> Emilie
Or have the parents take the time to do some of it! I learned my
survival stuff from mom and dad, and church camp.
Not in school...
Omelet
"Dioclese" <NONE> wrote:
Yeah. Why is mileage getting WORSE instead of better?
I'm loath to buy into conspiracy theory, but this one has me following
it.
Omelet
Persephone
wrote:
JC, you're scattering your discontent among several subjects.
If you don't like how your tax money is being spent
in the education area, get after your local officials. Also protest
to the Bush administration re: "No Child Left Behind", which
has yielded the result you rightly protest -- teaching to the test.
(Incidentally, Bush stole the slogan from Marion Wright Edelman's
legitimate child advocacy group, the Children's Defense Fund.)
Below is a well-expressed counter-argument I found on another NG
where a similar discussion was in progress. Since we're into an OT
debate about education and taxes (I think that's what it's about?)
maybe this POV would interest JC.
Persephone
-------
"You know, I see this all the time. You figure "my ox isn't being
gored, so why should I pay taxes?" Hint: No man is an island.
You are part of the greater society, unless you opt out and go to live
on a desert island somewhere. (and don't expect to be rescued
if in trouble).
You need good schools to turn out well-educated citizens whether or
not you have kids in school. What they do as youth and as
adults DIRECTLY affects you. You also need for all mothers
to have good pre-natal care and good infant care, meaning proper
nutrition and medical care so the children will grow up to be good
citizens.
You also need clean streets, electricity maintenance, working traffic
signals, disaster response, pure food & water, etc.etc. ***and people
who know how to run these societal functions.***
Looking narrowly at a fictive bottom line misses the longer-term.
As Ben Franklin famously said: "Either we all hang together
or we will assuredly hang separately."
"Apres moi le deluge" is no longer operative."
Billy
Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article
> <wildbilly-FD6A8...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
> Billy <wild...@getthe.net> wrote:
>
> > > The planet will survive...
> > >
> > > one way or another. ;-)
> >
> > It's that other way that has me nervous. Hey ya know, how it goes, you
> > never know what you got till it's gone, you take Paradise and put up a
> > parking lot.
> > Cool back to square one, except this time these is already a lot of
> > hydrolyzed amino acids floating around. That should be helpful;o))
> > --
> >
> > Billy
>
> Mother nature does not care about man...
>
> She's a bitch that way.
Who said anything about humanity? I'm thinking about life and the
many paths that nature has taken to express it and assure its'
survival. It took a billion years for the first nutrient sea to
develop. Hopefully, next time recovery will start sooner.
Omelet
<wildbilly-4FBA5...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
Billy <wild...@getthe.net> wrote:
> In article <ompomelet-AB254...@news.giganews.com>,
> Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <wildbilly-FD6A8...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
> > Billy <wild...@getthe.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > The planet will survive...
> > > >
> > > > one way or another. ;-)
> > >
> > > It's that other way that has me nervous. Hey ya know, how it goes, you
> > > never know what you got till it's gone, you take Paradise and put up a
> > > parking lot.
> > > Cool back to square one, except this time these is already a lot of
> > > hydrolyzed amino acids floating around. That should be helpful;o))
> > > --
> > >
> > > Billy
> >
> > Mother nature does not care about man...
> >
> > She's a bitch that way.
>
> Who said anything about humanity? I'm thinking about life and the
> many paths that nature has taken to express it and assure its'
> survival. It took a billion years for the first nutrient sea to
> develop. Hopefully, next time recovery will start sooner.
Oh I doubt that ALL life will be wiped out?
At the very least, the cockroaches shall survive...
;-}
enigma
news:wildbilly-CF1E8...@c-61-68-245-199.per.conne
ct.net.au:
> Indeed. I was a poor learner until I found something I
> wanted to learn.
and i was bored silly. i was reading before i was three, &
reading my father's Master's textbooks by the time i was 4. my
parents got the NY school system to accept me for Kindergarten
when i was 4. in NY, i was pretty much allowed to read what i
wanted when the other kids were learning, but when we moved to
MA when i was in 2nd grade things went bad fast. that school
allowed no variation from the norm. i was punished for writing
cursive, for reading anything but the baby texts, for working
ahead in the math book. when my teacher took my copy of Arthur
C. Clarke's Childhood's End away for being inappropriate &
even refused to return it to my mother (mom bought me a new
copy), i'd gave up on school. at age 6 i told that teacher i
didn't need school & i didn't need her. i could learn & do
anything i wanted and she couldn't stop me. that didn't go
over well... :)
i fought the school system from then on & i vowed i'd never
subject a child of mine to that mind-numbing, stifling
blandness. schools have only become worse since i attended.
Bill
enigma <eni...@evil.net> wrote:
Any chance anyone knows the teacher of the year from New York city
that touched on similar themes. I'd guess 1975 +- 5. There is a
wonderful paper about but I am at a loss to find it.
Bill
--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
Neat place .. http://www.petersvalley.org/
http://www.saltspringseeds.com/
Billy
enigma <eni...@evil.net> wrote:
> Jangchub <Jang...@sakadawa.org> wrote in
> news:chi5349uqr4r7jk57...@4ax.com:
>
> > I don't think we should have any public schools at all. I
> > think people who have children should be the ones who pay
> > for school. I'm pretty sick of forking over 3,000 dollars
> > a year to school tax so they can build a better football
> > stadium. In Texas, highschool football is on the local
> > news. They also teach to the test. My nieces are two of
> > the dumbest, dullards I know.
>
> i agree that *far* too much is wasted on sports like football
> & baseball that only benefits a few students (school spirit my
> ass). if parents want their kid in sports, they should be the
> ones that pay. the taxes should only go for academics & arts.
> i pay for my son's education, but i also pay school taxes for
> those who can't afford private school. i just resent paying
> for stupid things like football uniforms (especially when the
> girl's teams have to hold fundraisers to get their
> equipment!).
> lee
I thought the argument was that team sports generated cash flows
that benefited everyone. They are money makers at colleges and
universities. Kids do need P.E. but four times around the track
isn't very interesting. Primary school is where kids should be
exposed to P.E., music, and art in order to broaden their
learning.
Multiple intelligences is an educational theory, first developed by
Howard Gardner, that describes an array of different kinds of
"intelligences" exhibited by human beings. Gardner suggests that each
individual manifests varying levels of these different intelligences,
and thus each person has a unique "cognitive profile."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences
The original seven types of intelligences are Language, Spatial,
Logic/Math, Bodily-Kinesthetic, Musical, Interpersonal,
Intrapersonal. To educate an individual, it is important that they be
exposed to all forms of learning. As opposed to memorizing for a
particular test, or as educators refer to it,"drill and kill".
As in, kill any interest in learning.
Billy
enigma <eni...@evil.net> wrote:
> jellybean stonerfish <stone...@geocities.com> wrote in
> news:PiAYj.9253$nl7....@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com:
>
> > On Tue, 20 May 2008 07:57:08 -0500, Jangchub wrote:
> >
> >> I don't think we should have any public schools at all. I
> >> think people who have children should be the ones who pay
> >> for school. I'm pretty sick of forking over 3,000 dollars
> >> a year to school tax so they can build a better football
> >> stadium. In Texas, highschool football is on the local
> >> news. They also teach to the test. My nieces are two of
> >> the dumbest, dullards I know.
> >
> > Yeah, only the rich should get an edjumacation. Then all
> > us poor folk can mow your lawns.
>
> no, the poor folks should be getting better education, not
> the NCLB dumb-it-down bullcaca
> lee
Actually, education has followed the complexity of weaponry. The
more complex the weapon, the smarter the soldier must be to use it.
Come the day that soldiers need to be able to solve for "x",
everybody will be taught algebra.
I'll put in a word for the Waldorf schools. A guy that I used to
do tae-kwon-do with taught in a Waldorf school. He had a class of
about 10 students. He would have them from 1st grade through 8th.
Because he knew each student's abilities he didn't need to test.
Unfortunately, Waldorf is expensive.
enigma
news:b2forewagner-86E8...@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.super
news.net:
> Any chance anyone knows the teacher of the year from New
> York city
> that touched on similar themes. I'd guess 1975 +- 5. There
> is a wonderful paper about but I am at a loss to find it.
John Holt, maybe?
enigma
news:wildbilly-F21F2...@c-61-68-245-199.per.conne
ct.net.au:
> I thought the argument was that team sports generated cash
> flows that benefited everyone. They are money makers at
> colleges and universities. Kids do need P.E. but four times
> around the track isn't very interesting. Primary school is
> where kids should be exposed to P.E., music, and art in
> order to broaden their learning.
team sports are fine for colleges, but we're talking public
school, k-12th grades. not much of my taxes go to the land
grant university compared to what the grade schools suck up &
i'm far more willing to fund music, art & non-competative PE
than i am funding sports that use a lot of money & benefit so
very few.
Bill
enigma <eni...@evil.net> wrote:
> Bill <b2fore...@snip.net> wrote in
> news:b2forewagner-86E8...@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.super
> news.net:
>
> > Any chance anyone knows the teacher of the year from New
> > York city
> > that touched on similar themes. I'd guess 1975 +- 5. There
> > is a wonderful paper about but I am at a loss to find it.
>
> John Holt, maybe?
>
> lee
YES
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Caldwell_Holt>
Grateful Bill
enigma
news:wildbilly-3C3CA...@c-61-68-245-199.per.conne
ct.net.au:
> Actually, education has followed the complexity of
> weaponry. The more complex the weapon, the smarter the
> soldier must be to use it. Come the day that soldiers need
> to be able to solve for "x", everybody will be taught
> algebra.
but weaonry is being made for use by lowest common
denominator... so how does that work?
> I'll put in a word for the Waldorf schools. A guy that I
> used to do tae-kwon-do with taught in a Waldorf school. He
> had a class of about 10 students. He would have them from
> 1st grade through 8th. Because he knew each student's
> abilities he didn't need to test. Unfortunately, Waldorf is
> expensive.
not any more than any other private school, really. Boo's in
Montessori because the closest Waldorf school is halfway
across the state. i also disagree with one facet of their
philosophy, which is that children should not read until age
8. while some kids aren't ready to read until then, forbidding
reading seems wrongheaded. OTOH, i'm all for the forbidding of
TV, but not so much forbidding recorded music...
i really like Waldorf's focus on nature & fantasy... but i
don't think it would have suited Boo's analytical nature
nearly as well as Montessori does.
Bill
<b2forewagner-ADAE...@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Bill <b2fore...@snip.net> wrote:
> In article <Xns9AA48904C58E...@199.125.85.9>,
> enigma <eni...@evil.net> wrote:
>
> > Bill <b2fore...@snip.net> wrote in
> > news:b2forewagner-86E8...@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.super
> > news.net:
> >
> > > Any chance anyone knows the teacher of the year from New
> > > York city
> > > that touched on similar themes. I'd guess 1975 +- 5. There
> > > is a wonderful paper about but I am at a loss to find it.
> >
> > John Holt, maybe?
> >
> > lee
>
> YES
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Caldwell_Holt>
>
> Grateful Bill
Yet Holt may not be the guy I was remembering. It is those 35 years
old insights that can occur and get me scratch my brow.
One of those many themes that come to mind. Holt BTW is right on. He
is buried about here somewhere.
Wet cold 50 F day.
Bill who thinks Charlie knows :))
z
> WARMING CLIMATE IS CHANGING LIFE ON GLOBAL SCALE, SAYS NEW STUDY
> A vast array of physical and biological systems across the earth are
> being affected by warming temperatures caused by humans, says a new
> analysis of information not previously assembled all in one spot. The
> effects on living things include ****earlier leafing of trees and
> plants ****over many regions; movements of species to higher latitudes
> and altitudes in the northern hemisphere; changes in bird migrations
> in Europe, North America and Australia; and shifting of the oceans'
> plankton and fish from cold- to warm-adapted communities.
> -- full story >http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080514131125.htm
>
> Any NG members notice "earlier leafing of trees and plants"?
> I realize it's a very short time scale...but...
>
> Inquiring minds...
>
> Persephone
i noted when i first arrived in this area in 1980 over the next few
years, it always went down to between 0 and -10 F after Xmas. It
hasn't gone below 0 for several years now. In fact, the new hardiness
chart reflects that for this area.
J. Clarke
Not only that but a good deal of what they teach is just plain
_wrong_. The only thing they really teach people how to do is go to
school, which in the real world is about as useless a skill as one can
imagine.
The thing that is frightening is that so many people, having gone
through that, then willingly subject their own kids to it.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Bill
<b2forewagner-F2E0...@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Bill <b2fore...@snip.net> wrote:
> In article
> <b2forewagner-ADAE...@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
> Bill <b2fore...@snip.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <Xns9AA48904C58E...@199.125.85.9>,
> > enigma <eni...@evil.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Bill <b2fore...@snip.net> wrote in
> > > news:b2forewagner-86E8...@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.super
> > > news.net:
> > >
> > > > Any chance anyone knows the teacher of the year from New
> > > > York city
> > > > that touched on similar themes. I'd guess 1975 +- 5. There
> > > > is a wonderful paper about but I am at a loss to find it.
> > >
> > > John Holt, maybe?
> > >
> > > lee
> >
> > YES
> >
> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Caldwell_Holt>
> >
> > Grateful Bill
>
> Yet Holt may not be the guy I was remembering. It is those 35 years
> old insights that can occur and get me scratch my brow.
> One of those many themes that come to mind. Holt BTW is right on. He
> is buried about here somewhere.
>
> Wet cold 50 F day.
>
> Bill who thinks Charlie knows :))
Just like the cheap seats I can look about stored papers and find gold.
John Gatto !! Check the Youtube for sure
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto>
<http://books.google.com/books?as_auth=John+Taylor+Gatto&sa=X&oi=print&ct
=title&cad=author-navigational&hl=en>
<http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/john_gatto.html>
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ogCc8ObiwQ>
Billy
> I've probably mentioned this before, but we had a '76 Datsun B210 that
> got 42 mpg. Billy's old Datsoon pickup likely does, or did, pretty
> well.
Nah, the '80 Datoon is a gas guzzer at 20 mpg, think about it is that it
thrives on abuse and rarely needs repairs. The '91 Sentra though,
that beautiful puppy got 40 mpg avg., and about 45 mpg on the road.
Billy
enigma <eni...@evil.net> wrote:
> Billy <wild...@getthe.net> wrote in
> news:wildbilly-3C3CA...@c-61-68-245-199.per.conne
> ct.net.au:
>
> > Actually, education has followed the complexity of
> > weaponry. The more complex the weapon, the smarter the
> > soldier must be to use it. Come the day that soldiers need
> > to be able to solve for "x", everybody will be taught
> > algebra.
>
> but weaonry is being made for use by lowest common
> denominator... so how does that work?
LCD has to be raised.
>
> > I'll put in a word for the Waldorf schools. A guy that I
> > used to do tae-kwon-do with taught in a Waldorf school. He
> > had a class of about 10 students. He would have them from
> > 1st grade through 8th. Because he knew each student's
> > abilities he didn't need to test. Unfortunately, Waldorf is
> > expensive.
>
> not any more than any other private school, really. Boo's in
> Montessori because the closest Waldorf school is halfway
> across the state. i also disagree with one facet of their
> philosophy, which is that children should not read until age
> 8. while some kids aren't ready to read until then, forbidding
> reading seems wrongheaded.
Complete agreement.
> OTOH, i'm all for the forbidding of
> TV, but not so much forbidding recorded music...
I agree again.
> i really like Waldorf's focus on nature & fantasy... but i
> don't think it would have suited Boo's analytical nature
> nearly as well as Montessori does.
> lee
It seems that it all boils down to the teacher, which is critical
if your going to have the same one for the next eight years. Teachers
are like books and movies, they are good for some audiences and not
others. Coloribus gustibus non disputatum as someone like to say;-)
Persephone
<jclarke...@cox.net> wrote:
[...]
>The thing that is frightening is that so many people, having gone
>through that, then willingly subject their own kids to it.
Willingly? I dunno...lots of parents would love to send their
children to good private schools but can't even begin to
think about paying those prices. And I mean parents who
are willing to sacrifice, big-time! The only places that still teach
the 3Rs are the religious schools, because they get teachers
on the cheap.
Billy
Sounds horrible. I can't imagine a teacher doing that. You sound
like the student that all teachers are looking for. My experience has
been that a third of the students don't need the teacher's help
if the information is presented in an intelligent way that bridges from
the known to what is to be learned. Probably, another third need
a little help, and another third that needs support. And then there is
that 5% or so that defy you to teach them. I think most of them are just
afraid of failing, so they don't try.
Today's classes are too large, 20 students should be a max. And not all
students have a textbook that they can take home. Some classes are
taught from surplus magazines. Not enough money they say.
Teachers have become the dumping grounds for societies problems.
You can't hug a kid. If you see a bruise, should you report it? Parents
don't know about sex, so it becomes the teachers role to explain it.
Drug education is pure propaganda. Explaining the health consequences of
smoking marijuana when everyone knows that no one has ever died or
gotten cancer from a cannabinol overdose and that beer and tobacco are
legal and can kill you. Knowing this, the kids don't listen when you try
to tell them how bad methamphetamine and heroine is.
Billy
Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com> wrote:
250C and sulfuric acid rain? Maybe the cockroaches should check with
Steven Hawking, so that they can line up their boats:o)
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2006-06-22-hawking-warming_x.htm
Jangchub
<stone...@geocities.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 20 May 2008 07:57:08 -0500, Jangchub wrote:
>
>> I don't think we should have any public schools at all. I think people
>> who have children should be the ones who pay for school. I'm pretty
>> sick of forking over 3,000 dollars a year to school tax so they can
>> build a better football stadium. In Texas, highschool football is on
>> the local news. They also teach to the test. My nieces are two of the
>> dumbest, dullards I know.
>
>Yeah, only the rich should get an edjumacation. Then all us poor folk
>can mow your lawns.
No, but maybe people who can't afford them should consider how costly
it is to raise a child in this world and have fewer. Maybe priorities
would also change. There is home schooling as a viable option and
since I don't have children, I can't truly say, but I'm fairly certain
I would chose that option. Again, I have no children so my opinion on
this aspect is not valid in the broad sense.
I mow my own lawn, weed my own garden when I can and I never haggle
the price when I have my very old live oaks pruned. Actually, I
always give more than asked and this last time I had the trees pruned
I gave a brand new McCulloch chain saw to the owner of the service who
didn't speak a word of English. I'm not heartless. Nowhere near.
Jangchub
wrote:
>Jangchub <Jang...@sakadawa.org> wrote in
>news:chi5349uqr4r7jk57...@4ax.com:
>
>> I don't think we should have any public schools at all. I
>> think people who have children should be the ones who pay
>> for school. I'm pretty sick of forking over 3,000 dollars
>> a year to school tax so they can build a better football
>> stadium. In Texas, highschool football is on the local
>> news. They also teach to the test. My nieces are two of
>> the dumbest, dullards I know.
>
> i agree that *far* too much is wasted on sports like football
>& baseball that only benefits a few students (school spirit my
>ass). if parents want their kid in sports, they should be the
>ones that pay. the taxes should only go for academics & arts.
> i pay for my son's education, but i also pay school taxes for
>those who can't afford private school. i just resent paying
>for stupid things like football uniforms (especially when the
>girl's teams have to hold fundraisers to get their
>equipment!).
>lee
Well, they have been trying like hell to build a TWO MILLION dollar
football stadium. The part is not the placement of funds, but on the
other side of the coin the average out of pocket spent by teachers in
order for their "room" to have what it needs to inspire is $700.00.
Not to mention salary. I think the average teacher in our district is
approximately $30k. I don't have to tell anyone the more educated a
person is in this academic climate in Texas is not, NOT attracted to
teach. Teach to the test. Thanks dubbya.
Jangchub
wrote:
>jellybean stonerfish <stone...@geocities.com> wrote in
>news:PiAYj.9253$nl7....@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com:
>
>> On Tue, 20 May 2008 07:57:08 -0500, Jangchub wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think we should have any public schools at all. I
>>> think people who have children should be the ones who pay
>>> for school. I'm pretty sick of forking over 3,000 dollars
>>> a year to school tax so they can build a better football
>>> stadium. In Texas, highschool football is on the local
>>> news. They also teach to the test. My nieces are two of
>>> the dumbest, dullards I know.
>>
>> Yeah, only the rich should get an edjumacation. Then all
>> us poor folk can mow your lawns.
>
> no, the poor folks should be getting better education, not
>the NCLB dumb-it-down bullcaca
>lee
We call it caca del toro in these here parts!
MajorOz
> Billy <wildbi...@getthe.net> wrote innews:wildbilly-3C3CA...@c-61-68-245-199.per.conne
> ct.net.au:
>
> > Actually, education has followed the complexity of
> > weaponry. The more complex the weapon, the smarter the
> > soldier must be to use it. Come the day that soldiers need
> > to be able to solve for "x", everybody will be taught
> > algebra.
>
> but weaonry is being made for use by lowest common
> denominator...
...really ?
Got any citations?
cheers
oz, wondering how well lee would do in an Aegis cruiser's CIC
Jangchub
>Below is a well-expressed counter-argument I found on another NG
> where a similar discussion was in progress. Since we're into an OT
>debate about education and taxes (I think that's what it's about?)
>maybe this POV would interest JC.
>
>Persephone
Jangchub is one word, not two and shouldn't ave a dual letter
associated with the shorthand. I don't sign my posts enough, but I am
Victoria, not JC.
MajorOz
> On Tue, 20 May 2008 14:37:24 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>
>
> [...]
>
> >The thing that is frightening is that so many people, having gone
> >through that, then willingly subject their own kids to it.
>
> Willingly? I dunno...lots of parents would love to send their
> children to good private schools but can't even begin to
> think about paying those prices. And I mean parents who
> are willing to sacrifice, big-time! The only places that still teach
> the 3Rs are the religious schools, because they get teachers
> on the cheap.
Kinda shoots the argument that paying teachers more would result in
better education.
Actually, the reason private / religious schools produce better
products is that they are allowed to exact discipline.
As a frequent temp, I have that luxury in the public school. Students
act up, I throw them out.
"Where should I go" they ask.
"I don't care" I answer.
Then I get on with the task of the day to, usually, interested
students.
cheers
oz
Jangchub
wrote:
>and i was bored silly. i was reading before i was three, &
>reading my father's Master's textbooks by the time i was 4. my
>parents got the NY school system to accept me for Kindergarten
>when i was 4. in NY, i was pretty much allowed to read what i
>wanted when the other kids were learning, but when we moved to
>MA when i was in 2nd grade things went bad fast. that school
>allowed no variation from the norm. i was punished for writing
>cursive, for reading anything but the baby texts, for working
>ahead in the math book. when my teacher took my copy of Arthur
>C. Clarke's Childhood's End away for being inappropriate &
>even refused to return it to my mother (mom bought me a new
>copy), i'd gave up on school. at age 6 i told that teacher i
>didn't need school & i didn't need her. i could learn & do
>anything i wanted and she couldn't stop me. that didn't go
>over well... :)
> i fought the school system from then on & i vowed i'd never
>subject a child of mine to that mind-numbing, stifling
>blandness. schools have only become worse since i attended.
>lee
Wow, if I didn't know you wrote this post I'd have thought it was one
of mine. I completely stopped entering the doors of a school at the
sixth grade. The day I turned 16 I officially quit.
There was one teacher who gave me a little bit of inspiration. For a
short time I attended my English class. This happened because
everyone I hung out with went to class during that period, so I went
too.
The book we were interpreting was "Lost Horizon." She said she was
not really a teacher, but she was from Utopia and we were given a
choice to make. We could stay here in this "reality," or we could go
back with her. The one thing was, we couldn't return. Once we went,
we went. I found this very interesting for a few minutes.
I grew up with people like Andrew Dice Clay. It was our highschool,
James Madison in Brooklyn, NY where we "cut out" daily. The time
period was when they were filming "The Lord's of Flatbush." It was
our school as the backdrop for the film. I knew the girl who lived in
the house where the Susan Blakely character lived in the film.
It's actually not Flatbush there, it's East Flatbush.
Anyway, I was bored to tears with school until I entered College where
I was with like minds with similar interests and I love it.
Pardon the rambling, I fell on my knee replacement leg today so I'm on
some interesting pain medication!
Victoria