32-bit Sega ???
Six o'clock News
>anybody out there know if this is true. If it is true. How much will
>it cost hear in the U.S.? When will it come out? How good is it? And
>if the Sega Genesis is almost as good as the arcade will this be better?
>Any and all information is welcomed?
> thanks
> R a u l R o m e r o
From: hl...@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Sir Han J. Lee)
Path: cory.Berkeley.EDU!hlee
Mega Drive II !?!?!?
There is an interesting article from "New Machine Factory" column that
appears in every issue of Beep! Mega Drive. (September issue)
This column is basically about the editor's concept of new machines that
Mega Drive might have in the future. However, it's very interesting to
note that SEGA really announces the release of such machines after the
article's been published. (CD-ROM Drive is one example) -- Maybe
SEGA reads this column.
Anyways, according to Beep! MD, SEGA Enterprises so far hasn't announced the
release of anything like 32-bit Mega Drive, but it is very likely, though.
Since the announcement of Super Famicom by Nintendo has shaken the video
game industry, SEGA and all MD users have gotten somewhat frustrated, because
MD will no longer be the most powerful game machine. They never wanna see
their machine go down the drain like the Master System and Mark III did.
This, thus had up-scheduled the release date of Mega Drive CD-ROM drive, but
will it be enough? It maybe, but even then, the release of CD-ROM drive
won't be till spring or summer of 1991, which is several months after
the Super Famicom's debut. There is a great possibility that "Mega Drive II,"
even powerful than Super Famicom, will come out soon.
Attachment Unit:
According to Beep! MD, Mega Drive was designed with expansion in mind.
Which means, with the current machine, only a small, affordable attachment
unit is needed to make it near Neo-Geo quality. This unit is to be attached
to the MD's side port. (Beep! MD also showed a conceptual picture of this)
_____________ _____
/ /----\ \/ \
| / ____ \ | ==|
| | (____) || ==|
| \ / | ==|
|===== \____/ | ==|
| | | | ==|
\_____________/\_____/
With the existing machine unchanged, the attachment unit will enable the MD
to produce upto ~300 sprites on screen and upto 64 sprites horizontally.
Possible number of color pallete is 32768, and can have 512 simultaneously
in a normal mode and 4096 simultaneously in a special mode (They didn't
mention what this "special mode" is).
It will also have sprite scaling and rotating capability (remember,
Sega had already figured out how to do software scaling and rotating
on the background with the existing machine). Sound will be "CD-quality."
The best thing, however, about the attachment unit will be its affordability--
for the people who already own Mega Drive. The unit will probably cost
around $100 - $150. Plus, with the downward compatiblity, the "Mega Drive II"
will have big advantages over Super Famicom.
Me? I'm just wating for the CD-ROM Drive!
OPRBH@cunyvm
Craig Lee Gruneberg
Just curious.
Craig
--
Craig Lee Gruneberg [c...@cs.psu.edu]| 333 Whitmore Laboratory
Penn State University |
Department of Computer Science | Watch for Hubble repair
University Park, PA 16802 | updates here....
Ian Farquhar
Hmmm... Interesting. I suppose it depends on what you describe as a 32
bit processor. For years Apple (extremely dishonestly IMO) called
their 68000 based Macs "32 bit computers" because the 68000 can handle
many operations at 32 bit precision internally. Then came the 68020
Macs and this stopped, for obvious reasons. If you followed Apple's
original idea, the Z-80 is a 16 bit chip as it can handle 16 bit numbers
quite well (except that the flags are incorrect when incrememnting or
decrememnting register pairs, how I hated that!) I sincerely hope Sega
won't be doing anything like this.
Also, the interesting question to ask is what chip are they thinking of
using? Sega tend not to use custom CPU's, and went for Zilog and Motorola
generally. Zilog is pretty much a spent force, but Motorola does have
the 68020 and 68030, though they are far too expensive at present. One
excellent contender is the TMS34010, a 32 bit graphics-optimised CPU,
though again not a cheap device to purchase. I think that we can write
off Intel chips, as the only decent ones are too expensive.
All speculation, folks, but interesting. Anyone got any better ideas?
Now I'd like an i860 based handheld... :-)
--
Ian Farquhar Phone : 61 2 805-9403
Office of Computing Services Fax : 61 2 805-7433
Macquarie University NSW 2109 Also : 61 2 805-7205
Australia EMail : ifar...@suna.mqcc.mq.oz.au
Six o'clock News
>Genesis system off and running, and a 68020 based system would
>cost at least $300.
>
No, it won't be (see my posting about Mega Drive II).
>However, NEC *could* redo the Supergrafx for the American market,
>it has better sound and graphics than the Genesis, and it can play
>regular PC Engine games, including the CD games.
>
Graphics maybe (it can have more sprites; that's all. Also Genesis
has 2 screens, Super Grafx has also 2 screens. PC Engine(TurboGrafx) has only
1. )
Certainly not *better* sound...it's got similar ones in regular PC Engine;
it's just that most Super Grafx games have 6+ megs. (comparing Genesis'
version of Ghouls 'n Ghosts with that of Super Grafx isn't really fair:
Genesis version is only 5 meg and Super Grafx version is 8 meg.)
I seriously doubt that Super Grafx would come over here, as it miserably
failed in Japan; everybody pretty much has regular PC Engines and with so
few games available for Super Grafx (and of course, its relative high
price), people don't think it's worth buying.
Besides, isn't NEC asking too much to buy? Turbo Grafx, then Turbo Express,
and then Super Grafx ? (chargin extra $$ for booster and multi-player tap
was bad enough)
Having just seen the specs, screenshots and the price for Super Famicom,
I have a feeling that Mega Drive and PC Engine and also Famicom might die
in Japan.
Han.
hl...@cory.Berkeley.EDU
Mark Newton-John
Don't expect a 32 bit Sega anytime soon, Sega is getting it's
Genesis system off and running, and a 68020 based system would
cost at least $300.
However, NEC *could* redo the Supergrafx for the American market,
it has better sound and graphics than the Genesis, and it can play
regular PC Engine games, including the CD games.
Mata ne da-cha
--
the good guys! Sakura-mendo, CA
Internet: mfo...@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US
Mark Newton-John
Screens? Two vs. one? What are you talking about? I've read the
most recent MD magazines, I don't recall a Mega Drive 2 being
mentioned.
About the SuperGrafx, it hasn't "failed", there are still a couple
games still being developed. Yes, it is not as popular, but then
again, the SG-1000 wasn't popular either. And it is practically
dead anyway, except in the US (as the Master System).
Besides, NEC could redo the SuperGrafx as a *compatible* upgrade,
and what still sells games is the visuals- more than any
soundtrack. If you showed a Supergrafx vs. a Genesis game, visuals
will win.
Remember, I said "could". NEC could have just inported a FCC
Coregrafx, but they didn't. Sega could have kept the same plastic
for the cartridge slots, but they didn't.
NEC is not asking more any more than any other company. You spend
$30 more for stereo and an A/V port that 90% of buyers don't use.
99% of the video cables that were packages with Master Systems were
thrown away- ever noticed that they stopped including them? And no
one at my store hardly sells the same A/V cable or even the stereo
cable to Genesis buyers. So most buyers spend $158 or $149 for a
TG-16, vs. $188 for a Genesis. I don't need more than one port on
my TG-16, but families will have a blast with the five player TV
Sports Football.
And about buying a better NEC, people have bought Genesis from
Master Systems, and people will buy Super Famicoms from Famicoms.
So what's wrong with getting a SuperGrafx from a PC Shuttle, say?
There's nothing wrong with upgrading, you can't fault those who
bought Macintosh IIs, from old Macintosh 128ks, eh? Heck, I even
went to a 4Mb Atari from a 1040ST...
I hardly doubt that the PC Engine will wither from the
SuperFamicom- MegaDrive might, but with help from CD-ROM, I doubt
it. CD-ROM will certainly keep the PC Engine around for a while.
Ja ne da-cha
Mark Newton-John
Ja ne da-cha
Six o'clock News
>most recent MD magazines, I don't recall a Mega Drive 2 being
>mentioned.
>
Look for the article "New Machine Factory" (translation) in the September
issue of Beep! Mega Drive. It's just a speculative idea that the editor
has, although it's very likely to happen (as well as the editor believes).
>About the SuperGrafx, it hasn't "failed", there are still a couple
>games still being developed. Yes, it is not as popular, but then
>again, the SG-1000 wasn't popular either. And it is practically
>dead anyway, except in the US (as the Master System).
>
SG-1000 and the Master System are not the same machine. SG-1000 was one
of the earliest home game system (actually more of a wimpy computer) with
a keyboard released by SEGA in 1983 ! (That was even several months before
Nintendo released their Famicom.)
Actually, even the Japanese Master System is not the same as the US
Master System. US Master System is equivalent to Japanese Sega Mark III.
Except that they look different on the outside. You can also hook up
a keyboard into Mark III and there were cartridges like BASIC interpreter
and some drawing program which had a light pen connected to the cartridge
1and you can draw with a tablet. Note that Mark III was introduced in
1985 and Master System in 1987.
The Master System (Japanese) is actually an enhanced Mark III .
It's got built-in FM sound generators (US version doesn't!) and the later
games by SEGA such as After Burner, Out Run and etc used its FM sound
feature, making it near-stereo sound. The Japanese Master System, however,
looks exactly like the US one, though. (except the cartridge port). Also
the Japanese Master System had built-in 3-D glasses interface; there's
a jack on the side. (Have you ever played the FM-sound Master System version
of Out Run? -- it's pretty good! ) Actually I had all these game system
(as you can see, I've been a SEGA fan ever since they introduced Space
Harrier in the arcades :) ) Yes, unfortunately both the Mark III and
Master System died in Japan... :( but it was when they introduced the
Mega Drive.
I don't know why so many people are claiming that Turbo games "play better"
than Genesis games, because I find many Genesis games to be very very fun
as well as looking nice. I like Turbo, too (actually I used to have the
Japanese PC Engine for some months when they first came out!) but I like
Genesis better because they've got all my favorite games. (After Burner II
on PC Engine is not as good as Genesis')
>$30 more for stereo and an A/V port that 90% of buyers don't use.
>99% of the video cables that were packages with Master Systems were
>thrown away- ever noticed that they stopped including them? And no
>one at my store hardly sells the same A/V cable or even the stereo
>cable to Genesis buyers. So most buyers spend $158 or $149 for a
>TG-16, vs. $188 for a Genesis. I don't need more than one port on
>my TG-16, but families will have a blast with the five player TV
>Sports Football.
>
>And about buying a better NEC, people have bought Genesis from
>Master Systems, and people will buy Super Famicoms from Famicoms.
>So what's wrong with getting a SuperGrafx from a PC Shuttle, say?
>There's nothing wrong with upgrading, you can't fault those who
>bought Macintosh IIs, from old Macintosh 128ks, eh? Heck, I even
>went to a 4Mb Atari from a 1040ST...
The thing is that Super Grafx isn't much better than the PC Engine (Core
Grafx) at least not for what you pay for. SG doesn't have any of the
new technologies like hardware scaling capabilities and etc. that has become
a standard these days. All NEC added were, ability to display more
sprites (128 this time vs 60 for the Core) few more "memory wave-type"
sound generators and one more layer of background (from one to two). But
even then, it can only display 12 sprites on a horizontal line, vs 20 for
the older and way much cheaper Genesis. People with a regular PC Engine
are already satisfied with their system (like all the Turbo Grafx owners
over here), and they just don't need to spend more money to get a system that
doesn't do much better but costs twice as much. Instead they'd get a Mega
Drive (which is as cheap as the Famicom) or wait for the Super Fami.
Han.
hl...@cory.Berkeley.EDU
Just waiting for MD CD-ROM Drive to come...
Mark Newton-John
Scaling? A nice feature, but scaling will not sell systems. It is
possible to do the same thing that Blue Thunder does with even with
systems that don't have scaling. Like Rescue on Fractalus, you get
the same effect. Perhaps the next wave of systems will have it, but
let's stay with the current systems.
Still, there are just some games that do better on one system than
another. I got tired of Truxton, but I have a blast with Blazing
Lazers. Heck, I can get a RPG for my Atari 4Mb, but Ys with it's
CD-ROM can't be beat. But again, I really like Moonwalker and Super
Hang-On. And I can play Fantasy Zone with the PowerBase Converter.
And besides, I like the Genesis PowerStick over the TurboStick
anytime. Well, except that the PowerStick *DOES NOT HAVE SLOW
MOTION!!!!* (blech! booo! hiss!)
Arguing technical points is to nebbish, to tell you the truth.
People argue about Atari vs. Amiga vs. Apple, but the truth is the
Atari is better at MIDI and DTP, the Amiga at amateur video, and
the Apple with applications. But don't anyone bother to start on
that!
Simply put, the Genesis is better in some things, the TurboGrafx is
better in some things.