Nintendo vs. SEGA genesis
Joseph A Raguso
genesis system people would recommend and why. Game availability, nintendo's future plans, etc. are all obviously important. Thanks for the help, it will be interesting to see what the experienced user thinks.
terrence.boerner
with the Genesis. Most of their games are great and the
future looks even better. There are a lot of 3rd party s/w
co. jumping on the bandwagon so the future looks bright.
c60c...@web.berkeley.edu
truly an arcade-quality machine, playing on Nintendo was kinda
like playing on Atari 2600. Nintendo may have lots of softwares for
now, but future software availabilities for Genesis looks great,
too! Especially I'm glad that great game companies like Techno
Soft and MicroNet are devoting most of their work toward Genesis/
Mega Drive project.
It's also nice that Sega is making lots of games licensed from Capcom,
one of my favorite game company.
I would also like to get Turbo Grafx 16, too, but darn! if
it's only compatible with PC Engine...but no. And marketwise it seems
that Genesis is already winning the 16-bit warfare, which blurs the
future of Turbo Grafx... well, they should've released their PC Engine
Super Grafx instead.
News: Tatsujin is soon to be released for Genesis and it is exactly
like the arcade's!
Chris Long
c60c...@WEB.berkeley.edu writes:
> Definitely Genesis for me! After playing on Genesis, which is
> truly an arcade-quality machine, playing on Nintendo was kinda
> like playing on Atari 2600. Nintendo may have lots of softwares for
> now, but future software availabilities for Genesis looks great,
> too! Especially I'm glad that great game companies like Techno
> Soft and MicroNet are devoting most of their work toward Genesis/
> Mega Drive project.
We happen to have both an NEC and a Genesis here. We ended with
both of them plus lots of other stuff (5 bicycles, 12 T-shirts, an
$800 stereo TV-monitor, 4 Turbografx, a Psycho-Vision skateboard, and
an NEC CD-ROM player) after my roommate won the NJ NEC Blazing Lazer
competition and I came in second in both the NJ and MA ones. IMO
the Sega has better graphics, but the NEC has *much* better sound.
We seem to be playing the NEC about 5 times as much as the Genesis.
> It's also nice that Sega is making lots of games licensed from Capcom,
> one of my favorite game company.
> I would also like to get Turbo Grafx 16, too, but darn! if
> it's only compatible with PC Engine...but no. And marketwise it seems
> that Genesis is already winning the 16-bit warfare, which blurs the
> future of Turbo Grafx... well, they should've released their PC Engine
> Super Grafx instead.
The conversion from PC Engine to TG16 is very easy, so I would assume
that the most popular games for the PCE will find their way to TG16
quite soon. IMO, both game systems will do well. However, given
Sega's track recond, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Genesis curl
up and die (I hope it doesn't, though).
If only the Genesis had better sound, the choice between the two
would be much easier.
> News: Tatsujin is soon to be released for Genesis and it is exactly
> like the arcade's!
You should see Galaga '90 for the NEC.
--
Chris Long, 272 Hamilton St. Apt. 1, New Brunswick NJ 08901 (201) 846-5569
"The proofs are so obvious that they can be left to the reader."
Lars V. Ahlfors, _Complex Analysis_
c60c...@web.berkeley.edu
Galaga '90 is just a re-titled version of their Galaga '88.
It didn't impress me at all.
As for the sound, you can't say that TG16's is better.
It depends on how well the software's written. Blazing Lazers
was a special case for TG16, as well as Thunder Force II
for Genesis. All of the great sounding musics come from FM sound
chips. And both the Genesis and TG16 have the same 6-channel FM
sound generators, but in addition Genesis have 4 more other sound
generators.
I do agree that TG16 is a great game machine, and I love the games
they have for PC Engine, but if I had to choose
from a machine that sometimes have flicker problem in grafx, (suffering
from it 8-bit CPU) and a machine that doesn't, I'd definitely
choose Genesis.
The other drawback of TG16 (if it's same as PC Engine) is that
those little HuCards can only contain 3-Megabits or so. So games
like R-Type comes in TWO cards, which sux (you get a password when
you finish the first card). Of course, most software makers will try
to avoid that by compressing their games to fit in a single card.
CD-Rom is great, ignoring the price, but
I also noticed that it takes too much time loading up the things to
memory to play (thanx again to its 8-bit input/output).
Note that Genesis/Mega Drive is also coming out with their own
CD-Rom unit that takes advantage of *TRUE* 16-bit processor.
Chris Long
> Galaga '90 is just a re-titled version of their Galaga '88.
> It didn't impress me at all.
It does, however, duplicate the arcade original almost exactly (this is
the first stage). And, believe it or not, Galaga '90 is actually
an improvement of Galaga '88, as there are 3 more stages after the
first, with new types of pellets.
> As for the sound, you can't say that TG16's is better.
Yes I can. The Genesis seems to have many problems with sound. I've
observed noise problems with at least 3 of the games, not to mention
that you can only get stereo through the headphones, which annonys
me greatly. The sound of just about every TG16 game, on the other
hand, is very good. No noise, stereo through the TV/monitor, and
nice compositions.
> It depends on how well the software's written.
Agree.
> Blazing Lazers was a special case for TG16, as well as Thunder Force II
> for Genesis.
There are many TG16 games which sound just as good as Blazing Lazers.
> All of the great sounding musics come from FM sound
> chips. And both the Genesis and TG16 have the same 6-channel FM
> sound generators, but in addition Genesis have 4 more other sound
> generators.
Yes, in theory the Genesis should have superior sound. But why the
noise problems? Is the unit properly shielded? And why stereo
output from the headphone jack only?
> I do agree that TG16 is a great game machine, and I love the games
> they have for PC Engine, but if I had to choose
> from a machine that sometimes have flicker problem in grafx, (suffering
> from it 8-bit CPU) and a machine that doesn't, I'd definitely
> choose Genesis.
In theory, I agree the choice should clearly be the Genesis on
technical grounds. However, NEC seems to be producing better games
as of this moment. The graphics may not be as good, but the games
tend to be more playable (and sound better).
> The other drawback of TG16 (if it's same as PC Engine) is that
> those little HuCards can only contain 3-Megabits or so. So games
> like R-Type comes in TWO cards, which sux (you get a password when
> you finish the first card). Of course, most software makers will try
> to avoid that by compressing their games to fit in a single card.
Agree.
> CD-Rom is great, ignoring the price, but
> I also noticed that it takes too much time loading up the things to
> memory to play (thanx again to its 8-bit input/output).
I can't recommend buying the CD-ROM player for the NEC. Fighting
Street (the one game currently available for it) wasn't done at
all well, and in fact contains some of the worst digitized voices
I've ever heard. I may, however, change my opinion after more
games are made available for it.
Dan Arvidson - Fun Stuff!
>In article <1989Dec4.0...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
> c60c...@WEB.berkeley.edu writes:
>> As for the sound, you can't say that TG16's is better.
>Yes I can. The Genesis seems to have many problems with sound. I've
>observed noise problems with at least 3 of the games, not to mention
>that you can only get stereo through the headphones, which annonys
>me greatly. The sound of just about every TG16 game, on the other
>hand, is very good. No noise, stereo through the TV/monitor, and
>nice compositions.
I had some problems with the sound on my Genesis. In Ghoul's 'n' Ghost's,
when our daring adventurer would throw a dagger at a tombstone I would hear
static. (This is with the Genesis hooked up to my stereo.) I talked
with Sega's technical group and they mentioned that this was due to my
not having put the volume up to 10 on the Genesis unit and controlling
the volume I hear with the stereo. Apparently at 10, the unit puts out
the correct voltage. Sure enough, this cured the static problem, also
the hiss in the background.
>Yes, in theory the Genesis should have superior sound. But why the
>noise problems?
Described above.
>And why stereo output from the headphone jack only?
That's the way they designed it. This is needed for those who don't have
stereo TV's. And what's the problem with this??? What's the big deal????
Geez!!! The headphone, at max, puts out the proper voltage for the input
jacks on the back of the stereo system. Thunderforce II is primo on my
stereo system cranked up!!!
Dan
--
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|Dan Arvidson | |
|Digital Equipment Corporation | "Good tea ... nice house." |
|129 Parker St. PK03-2/K84 | - Lt. Worf, ST:TNG |
|Maynard, MA 01754 | _The_Survivors_ |
|USA (508) 493-5257 | |
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| are compelled to leave." - Gary Larson, 1987 Far Side Calendar |
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c60c...@web.berkeley.edu
In article <Dec.4.06.32....@topaz.rutgers.edu> you write:
>In article <1989Dec4.0...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
> c60c...@WEB.berkeley.edu writes:
>
>> It didn't impress me at all.
>
>It does, however, duplicate the arcade original almost exactly (this is
>the first stage). And, believe it or not, Galaga '90 is actually
>an improvement of Galaga '88, as there are 3 more stages after the
>first, with new types of pellets.
What I meant was that the arcade version didn't impress me at all.
>
>> As for the sound, you can't say that TG16's is better.
>
>Yes I can. The Genesis seems to have many problems with sound. I've
>observed noise problems with at least 3 of the games, not to mention
>that you can only get stereo through the headphones, which annonys
>me greatly. The sound of just about every TG16 game, on the other
>hand, is very good. No noise, stereo through the TV/monitor, and
>nice compositions.
>
What noise problem? I never had any noise problem with any of my
Genesis games (I have all the games except the sports ones).
What's wrong with headphones anyway? great at dorm. But you
can also get it to hook up to your stereo or stereo TV (the jack
costs only around $3 at Radio Shack- mine uses homemade) to get
a concert-hall-quality sound.
Oh, btw, don't you need that special "booster unit" which costs $40
to get stereo sound for TG16?
>
>> I do agree that TG16 is a great game machine, and I love the games
>> they have for PC Engine, but if I had to choose
>> from a machine that sometimes have flicker problem in grafx, (suffering
>> from it 8-bit CPU) and a machine that doesn't, I'd definitely
>> choose Genesis.
>
>In theory, I agree the choice should clearly be the Genesis on
>technical grounds. However, NEC seems to be producing better games
>as of this moment. The graphics may not be as good, but the games
>tend to be more playable (and sound better).
>
Think this way: NEC machine have been around for 2+ years so far.
And they have about 100+ games. And I've heard that their strategy is
to launch only the best games they have to US.
On the other hand, Sega machine was just released less than a year
ago.
>> CD-Rom is great, ignoring the price, but
>> I also noticed that it takes too much time loading up the things to
>> memory to play (thanx again to its 8-bit input/output).
>
>I can't recommend buying the CD-ROM player for the NEC. Fighting
>Street (the one game currently available for it) wasn't done at
>all well, and in fact contains some of the worst digitized voices
>I've ever heard. I may, however, change my opinion after more
>games are made available for it.
>--
Yeah, I also noticed that it only has single scrolling background-yuk!
Ben Yoshino
This is my first posting, so if I do make a boo-boo, email me.
I'm responding to the article submitted by Chris Long.
I don't mean to start a flame war here, like I used to see on comp.sys.atari.st
a while back, but somehow, something doesn't sound right.
The Genesis (or Megadrive, as it's called in Japan) is only barely a year old.
It seems to me that, for the most part, the first games that come out for any
game systems aren't as good as the "refined" later production games. The
TurboGrafx-16 is "old" already. I mean programmers have gotten used to the
tricks of the machine, making it go to the limit. If you look at the H/W specs
of the Genesis, and you understand the specs, it should be clear that if more
games utilizing full capabilities of the Genesis would blow TG away.
Even in Japan the Megadrive is quite new. I think just recently the Tele-net
system for the Megadrive was put into operation. I don't recall a system like
that for the TG. It seems NEC is already making a new machine, the SuperGrafx.
But, the only difference between PC-Engine and SG is the number of sprites. The
sound generators are the same. I know that Genesis has more voices and the
sounds are truer. It all depends ont the S/W support it gets.
Just sit back and wait 'til Genesis matures. I'm sure it won't take long.
BTW, I don't work for Sega, and I just happen to like the thing. Only one
complaint. I sent my Genesis for repair, and Sega made the problem worse.
Now it seems the thing works intermittently. That's my (long) two cents.
Boku no wagamama o kiite arigato.
Sincerely,
Ben "BenSKI!" Yoshino
===============================================================================
"Wise from your dwaye." -- Altered Beast (Genesis)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Y. Yoshino University of Hawaii at Manoa
2583 Dole St. College of Engineering
Rm. 984 A Hale Aloha - Mokihana Department of Electrical Engineering
Honolulu, Hawaii 96822 Address: b...@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu
===============================================================================
Michael Portuesi
c> if I had to choose
c> from a machine that sometimes have flicker problem in grafx, (suffering
c> from it 8-bit CPU) and a machine that doesn't, I'd definitely
c> choose Genesis.
The number of bits in the machine's CPU has nothing to do with whether
or not the graphics flicker. That's dependent on the sophistication
of the graphics hardware, sprite generators, etc that are connected to
the CPU. Same deal with sound.
c> CD-Rom is great, ignoring the price, but
c> I also noticed that it takes too much time loading up the things to
c> memory to play (thanx again to its 8-bit input/output).
Again, the speed of I/O is probably more dependent on the CD-ROM drive
itself and the interface hardware than it is on the CPU.
c> Note that Genesis/Mega Drive is also coming out with their own
c> CD-Rom unit that takes advantage of *TRUE* 16-bit processor.
I think that you're stretching this 8-bit vs. 16-bit processor
business a bit too far.
--
__
\/ Michael Portuesi Silicon Graphics Computer Systems, Inc.
port...@SGI.COM Entry Systems Division -- Engineering
He says, "Take me to your leader" -- and I say, "Do you mean....George?"
Allen P Jr Haughay
>
>I think that you're stretching this 8-bit vs. 16-bit processor
>business a bit too far.
>--
You raise an interesting point. I think that in most cases these
video games are I/O bound so far as their speed of operation is
concerned. There aren't that many complex calculations a video
game must do, if graphic operations are being handled by a
coprocessor/sprite-generator/bit-blitter or whatever. Main
processor calculations must be fast, sure, but the real magic is
in the graphics processor/hardware.
Skip Haughay
ACIT-University of Delaware
HeapSort + A tree
>
>
>c> if I had to choose
>c> from a machine that sometimes have flicker problem in grafx, (suffering
>c> from it 8-bit CPU) and a machine that doesn't, I'd definitely
>c> choose Genesis.
>
>The number of bits in the machine's CPU has nothing to do with whether
>or not the graphics flicker. That's dependent on the sophistication
>of the graphics hardware, sprite generators, etc that are connected to
>the CPU. Same deal with sound.
My opinion was based on the games I played for both machines.
Many of PC Engine games produced flickers when there were too many
characters in one screen.
Note that Genesis can have 80 sprites/screen whereas TurboGrafx can
only have 60 sprites/screen.
billkatt
I can't buy that. Maybe that's what the specs say but tricks are always
possible. I'll bet anyone who has played the "bubble level"(level 8) on
Blazing Lazers on the TG 16 has seend more than 60 objects moving at once
(assumedly a sprite each). I would guess 75-80 bubbles at once. On the
other hand, anyone who has got to the final level on the Ghosts and Ghouls
on the Genesis has seen the point where two bug guys blast flame throwers
(streams of balls of flame, about 5-15 balls of flame per flamethrower) at
you has seen the worst flicker in history. Most of the time, only the last
ball in the flame thrower of the left hand bad guy appears. The rest of
them only show as black holes (see it to understand better). If the Genesis
is better hardware-wise then the TG-16, then they should fire all their
programmers.
BTW, The Genesis sounds are DEFINITELY better.
-Steve
Rob Finley
An example would be the 8-bit coin ops. A tremendous number of games are
done with either a very fast 6502 processor or an 8Mhz Z-80 (or many
8Mhz Z-80's talking together). Sega's are for the most part either MC68000
(68020 yet???) and/or Z80 based. Nintendo is doing extremely well with a
modified 6502 processor.
A game with tight software and great graphics and support hardware, coupled
with a dynamite game concept, can bring in the bucks. Atari has done an
incredible amount with a fast 6502 especially in the early eighties.
Support hardware was cheap back then. The main speed feature seems to be
that either they use a hardware multiplier or they don't use floating point
at all. Quite a few Bally Midway games used 8bit processors for the main
scene and relegated a 68000 to playing back digital sound files through
a D/A converter. Ever wonder what is inside Bally/Midway Spy Hunter? (the
original). The background music has the 68K while the game has two Z80's
and a sprite machine. And, one of those Z-80's cant do anything to the
video controller...
There was a time when four $3.00 Z-80C processors were a lot cheaper than
a $50.00 68000 chip.
WARRANTY:
The video game concepts and design are the intellectual property of the
manufacturers. I get a kick out of discovering what can be done with a Z80
and a bag full of chips. Don't misuse this info!
-----
Rob
quintro!bpdsun1!r...@lll-winken.llnl.gov
uunet!tiamat!quintro!bpdsun1!rmf
Mark F. Newton
The demo tape that I got, goes on to say that they will be
translating only the best of the PC Engine games, for the TG16. And
on this demo tape, they had quite a few games, sports,
role-playing, arcade, etc, demos of PC Engine games that they will
be releasing for the TG16.
The CD-ROM games that they demoed were impressive, with *real*
voices- none of that synthesized "Cylon" speak of other systems.
You know, after seeing the Noriko game, and even after reading
about the review, I think it would be an interesting game...
I wonder what the real differnces are in the Hu Cards the PC Engine
and the TG16 use, and why you can't use them in each other's
system. Maybe someone will hack an adaptor, like someone has for
the NES and Famicom.
And of course, with a "Super PC Engine" (what was that name again?)
coming out, there's going to be yet another game system??? (Maybe
it's a Japanese TG16?)
Back to comparing games, the only thing to do, is to get all of
them, and have the best games for each system.
--
Sakura-mento, CA
mmsac!sactoh0!mfolivo mfolivo@sactoh0
pacbell!sactoh0!mfolivo (they're worth a try...)
SML...@psuvm.bitnet
Personally, I think the Nintendo is a piece of right wing garbage akin to the
IBM PC. Slow, out of date, but heavily marketed so that mindless dweenies will
think it's the hottest thing since Zelda had her first period. I have yet TO
SEE A SINGLE GAME ON THE THING SUBSTANTIALLY BETTER THAN STUFF I PLAYED ON MY
OLD ATARI 800 SEVEN YEARS AGO.....Yes, there are some nice games, but they do
not do anything extraordinary and in fact clearly show the glaring limitations
of the thing's inferior pre-VLSI hardware.
On the subject of the Sega Genesis and the Turbografix 16. At least these guys
are using hardware invented after the Apple II, give 'em credit! The graphics
in these games are NICE! I really can't give a decent opinion as to which is
better, they're both fantastic!
But now I get to stand on my soapbox and have some fun. Correct me if I am
wrong, but isn't the Atari 7800 superior hardware wise to the NES? I heard
thing could manipulate 64 BIG sprites at once. It was developed right when
the slump hit the videogame industry, and two fantastic and innovative games
Rescue at fractalus and Ballblazer NEVER got the recognition they deserved.
I have yet to see ANYTHING on the NES half as good as these wondrous
creations from Lucasfilm. All I ever see are variations on the horizontal/
vertical scrolling find the magic trinket and or blow it up while a host of
randomly drawn stick figures get in your way theme. I'd rather pay 25 cents
in an arcade and at least get decent graphics and sound.
This gets us to another topic. Anyone who believes the Gamebody superior to
the Lynx is a complete loony. However, I think there is a good chance the
Lynx will fail simply because the Gameboy is saturing the market. I hope this
does not happen because I do not see anyone else creating truly innovative
software for home video games. Even the Sega and NEC systems are only offering
souped up versions of the aforementioned theme...
The only really nifty games are being written for Amigas and ST's with sorry
adaptions made for befuddled PC users who gladly shuck out the bucks when they
see screenshots from the ST and Amiga versions (usually the Amiga version :)),
and get the Nintendosized version of a formerly fantastic game. One could
probably write neat stuff for the Mac II, but who wants to pay $7000 for a
video game ? The saddest part about this tale is that the PC version by far
outshines the combined profits of Amiga and ST versions so now some programmers
are dropping the Amiga and ST and limiting their horizons simply for the bucks.
I'm writing what I hope is a truly innovative video game myself right now, I
am writing it on an Atari ST with plans for both Amiga and PC adaptations, but
the key word here IS adaptations. The Amiga version will certainly be a little
better with the nifty sound and blitter chip, but I will need to write the PC
adaptation to make the thing truly profitable and that will be by far the
hardest part. Anyone out there looking for games for the NEC or Genesis? This
game would be PERFECT! I already know the thing would crash and burn on an NES
In closing, this post rambled ALOT, but I have wanted to broadcast my views
on the NES monopoly and the general creative decline it has triggered for a
very long time...
Scott Le Grand
Stefan Sortland
Now that the Lynx has been out for a week or two, how do people rate
the game out so far? Do they play well? Do the games feel "larger" with their
2 megs of memory? Is ghosting a problem?
How long does it last on batteries?
Stefan (X) nafetS
Bill Poitras
>On the subject of choosing a video game.....my five cents....
>
>Personally, I think the Nintendo is a piece of right wing garbage akin to the
>IBM PC. Slow, out of date, but heavily marketed so that mindless dweenies will
>think it's the hottest thing since Zelda had her first period.
Games... THERE FUN!!!! Gee, now isn't that a novel concept, a bunch of video
games that are fun to play. In my house we have Sega Master System, Genesis
and NES. Take a guess which gets played the most? Come on guess. Give up?
The NES. Why becaue it has such FUN games as Zelda, Link, Metroid, SMB2, Metal
Gear, Fester's Quest, Double Dragon, et. al. The only thing my brothers (who
are 9 and 13) use the Genesis for (Sega Master system now sits in a closet.)
is Sports games. That's because good sports games look better on a system with
awesome graphics. My brothers still play sports games on NES too. The NES has
something that the ATARI 2600 used to beat the superior Intellivision:
playabilty. I can still give you a list of ATARI 2600 games that I would not
mind playing today, most of them were made by Activision, but there are still
some atari classics. To make a long story short (Too late :-) great hardware
does not a great system make. This is both true for PC's and Video Gaming
systems. I still prefer PC's over Macs, and NES over Genesis. As a closeing
note
GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WILL BUY!!; NOT WHAT YOU THINK THEY WILL LIKE!!!!!!!
>Scott Le Grand
+-----------------+---------------------------+-----------------------------+
| Bill Poitras | Polygen Corporation | {princeton mit-eddie |
| (bill) | Waltham, MA USA | bu sunne}!polygen!bill |
+-----------------+---------------------------+-----------------------------+
Rob Finley
>
>Personally, I think the Nintendo is a piece of right wing garbage akin to the
>IBM PC. Slow, out of date, but heavily marketed so that mindless dweenies will
>think it's the hottest thing since Zelda had her first period. I have yet TO
>SEE A SINGLE GAME ON THE THING SUBSTANTIALLY BETTER THAN STUFF I PLAYED ON MY
>OLD ATARI 800 SEVEN YEARS AGO.....Yes, there are some nice games, but they do
>not do anything extraordinary and in fact clearly show the glaring limitations
>of the thing's inferior pre-VLSI hardware.
Precisely!
Michael Kingdom
>IBM PC. Slow, out of date, but heavily marketed so that mindless dweenies will
>think it's the hottest thing since Zelda had her first period. I have yet TO
>SEE A SINGLE GAME ON THE THING SUBSTANTIALLY BETTER THAN STUFF I PLAYED ON MY
>OLD ATARI 800 SEVEN YEARS AGO.....Yes, there are some nice games, but they do
>not do anything extraordinary and in fact clearly show the glaring limitations
>of the thing's inferior pre-VLSI hardware.
>Scott Le Grand
What is the bottom line here??? FUN to play, easy and some what inexpensive
to stay with (as in getting new games...)
Maybe the nintendo is comparatively archaic to the newer Sega and NEC systems,
but a game can have the most advanced graphics in the world with a lousy
game concept or lousy playability and cause me to only play them once!!
I've written games which run on text terminals that I had more fun playing
than a game with great graphics.
I'm not saying that Sega or NEC games suck but that they also must have a good
concept and good playability before they're worth the silicon they are etched
on.
Somebody will ALWAYS come out with something new, different and possibly even
"extraordinary". AND developers will write good stuff for them as well as
garbage. That doesn't mean older systems are garbage.
I bet my 1280x1024 Un*x workstation screen with graphics hardware which is
dedicated to doing 3-dimensional, real time solids with shading, etc can
blow away the Sega and NEC's in many respects, but that doesn't mean we
should dump Segas, NEC's, Nintendo's and PC's in favor of workstations!!! :->
-- Mike
Gary R Heffelfinger
> Those with simple minds may call the NES fun. I call it BORING!
Well...those of us who no longer have lightning reflexes also call the
NES fun. The 12 year old joystick (er...*controller*) jockeys out there
may have no problem with some of the arcade boxes or some of the
hyper-mega-16-bleeding-bit-machine games. But slow old farts like me
love the relatively slow pace of SMB and the Zelda series. My mind is
not simple, thank you, but my fingers *are* spastic. :-)
>I got sick of Mario Bros. at part I on my Atari 800. I found Shamus
>far more fun than Zelda. A videogame which is fun has to expose
Ah. Obviously you're one of the afforementioned jockeys. While I found
the idea of Shamus to be neat, it was a little too fast and a little too
mindless for my taste. Zelda is much superior for the slow old fart (SOF)
thirty-something generation.
> There are good games for the NES, but the arrogant buttholes running
>Nobraindo have decided that we Americans are content with the older
>games. This allows them to make reams off of their inferior software
>and then make even more money when their better progogrammed games.....
Well. Maybe. But if mindless 'Merican kids are going to buy rehashed
ninja games, don't blame Nintendo for going after the money. Nintendo
is a business just like any other and isn't here only to fulfill the wet
dreams of game lovers like us.
>I'll bet you think Apple and IBM are doing swell things for the home
>computer market lately...
I think IBM has held the personal computer industry back for the last 8+
years, but then they are the same company that has been using the same
mainframe architecture for several decades. Bleah. But that is not
appropriate for this newsgroup.
-Gary
--
Gary R Heffelfinger ------ gh...@hubcap.clemson.edu
Clemson University - Info. Systems Development
>>>>> Unrepentant Amiga addict. Just say "yes." <<<<<<
Michael Kingdom
Do you then consider games like Ultima simple-minded?
>I got sick of Mario Bros. at part I on my Atari 800. I found Shamus
>far more fun than Zelda. A videogame which is fun has to expose
>me to a game concept I haven't seen before which doesn't have to
>CPU devouring ie Tetris which ain't Ninscumdo's invention, or a
>neat and superbvly done rehash of an old but great concept.
I never said Nintendo was a great company. In fact, I believe they're
pretty slimey, a reason they probably are doing as well as they are.
High quality, completey original stuff doesn't necessarily net profit,
hence Nintendo's push for volume and control of the market.
I'll bite. What exactly do you call a good game????? Please be specific.
The only real difference between the Nintendo and the Sega and NEC
systems are the graphics. You can basically program the same game CONCEPT
on any of the systems. To me that implies you like the Sega and NEC better
because of the graphics. Isn't that a little simple minded?
> There are good games for the NES, but the arrogant buttholes running
>Nobraindo have decided that we Americans are content with the older
>games. This allows them to make reams off of their inferior software
>and then make even more money when their better progogrammed games.....
Ah! So here's the bottom line as far as Nintendo is concerned: MAKE MONEY!
They are finally getting stiffer competition from companies making newer
and better hardware. Some of the games for the newer systems are better,
some are worse. BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT, that DOES NOT make the Nintendo machine
useless. If you don't want or like to play NES games, that's your perfect
right, but don't dismiss millions of people who actually enjoy NES games
as simple minded. That just shows your near-sightedness and ignorance.
Think about it.
>I'll bet you think Apple and IBM are doing swell things for the home
>computer market lately...
So now we're arguing over IBM's and Apple's ! Personally I don't like
Apple computers much, but what about IBM's? From your statement you seem
to be saying that IBM's filling the market with a bunch of "inferior"
products. Have you noticed that IBM's short-sighted business practices are
causing them to get rid of 10,000 employees? IBM did manage to create a
"standard" in the low cost computing market but has basically lost it to
all the "compatibles". My answer then is "No, IBM isn't doing swell things
for the home computer market *LATELY*" <- note the key word here.
>Scott Le Grand aka sml...@psuvm.psu.edu
-- Mike Kingdom
SML...@psuvm.bitnet
In article <74...@hubcap.clemson.edu>, gh...@hubcap.clemson.edu (Gary R
Heffelfinger) says:
>
>
>Well...those of us who no longer have lightning reflexes also call the
>NES fun. The 12 year old joystick (er...*controller*) jockeys out there
>may have no problem with some of the arcade boxes or some of the
>hyper-mega-16-bleeding-bit-machine games. But slow old farts like me
>love the relatively slow pace of SMB and the Zelda series. My mind is
>not simple, thank you, but my fingers *are* spastic. :-)
>
seeing that on the NES I'll bet. And I don't see a cartoon based on it
clogging the airwaves....This is the latest cheap attempt at manipulating
children....
>
>Ah. Obviously you're one of the afforementioned jockeys. While I found
>the idea of Shamus to be neat, it was a little too fast and a little too
>mindless for my taste. Zelda is much superior for the slow old fart (SOF)
>thirty-something generation.
I could blame alot more wrong with America on the SOF's but that's out
of the scope of this newsgroup.. Just think Altamont Speedway....
You're absolutely right that Nofundo has the right to exploit a market
but I object to their Cosa Nostra mentality. Especially given the fact
that Japanese companies are allowed to walk all over us on their home
turf....
Scott Le Grand aka Sml...@psuvm.psu.edu
SML...@psuvm.bitnet
says:
>
>Do you then consider games like Ultima simple-minded?
Back then it was good, but now we have seen Sundog, Dungeon Master
and Bloodwych. The Ultima series is obsolete as is most of the
software on the Nintendo.
>I'll bite. What exactly do you call a good game????? Please be specific.
>The only real difference between the Nintendo and the Sega and NEC
>systems are the graphics. You can basically program the same game CONCEPT
>on any of the systems. To me that implies you like the Sega and NEC better
>because of the graphics. Isn't that a little simple minded?
My criteria for a good game is that it is either a reasonably new
idea such as Tetris, Rescue at Fractalus, Ballblazer, Sundog
or Starflight, or a superbly rendered improvement of an
already existing theme such as Falcon or Chessmaster 2000.
>useless. If you don't want or like to play NES games, that's your perfect
>don't dismiss millions of people who actually enjoy NES games
>as simple minded. That just shows your near-sightedness and ignorance.
>Think about it.
I don't dismiss them as simple minded, I dismiss them as ignorant. There
is a difference. These people don't realize what an obsolete piece
of crap the NES is. Just like there are hoards of people who still
believe PC clones are the pinnacle of Earth technology...
Michael Kingdom
>Back then it was good, but now we have seen Sundog, Dungeon Master
>and Bloodwych. The Ultima series is obsolete as is most of the
>software on the Nintendo.
Alot of the newer Ultimas (IV,V) are quite improved over those previous
versions. The games you mention (especially Dungeon Master) are however steps
in a positive direction.
>My criteria for a good game is that it is either a reasonably new
>idea such as Tetris, Rescue at Fractalus, Ballblazer, Sundog
>or Starflight, or a superbly rendered improvement of an
>already existing theme such as Falcon or Chessmaster 2000.
>I don't dismiss them as simple minded, I dismiss them as ignorant. There
>is a difference. These people don't realize what an obsolete piece
>of crap the NES is.
By dismissing them as ignorant you're making a sweeping generalization which
is neither all encompassing nor accurate for most of the Nintendo consumers.
Everyone sees the TG16 and Sega commercials and can see that these machines
are more powerful than the NES. AND they also find many games for the NES
which they consider fun. Not everyone likes RPG's or Ninja or SMB type games,
but many people like one or more of the different types of games available.
Some games are garbage, some games are great and _some_ people are definitely
ignorant, but you're completely off base to generalize.
> Just like there are hoards of people who still
>believe PC clones are the pinnacle of Earth technology...
Then again, some people don't really know what a PC is, other than a "computer."
For that matter, many people can't read, write or do simple integrals...
>Scott Le Grand aka sml...@psuvm.psu.edu
Mike
Brett G. Person
Gee, is it possible that Scott doesn't like Nintendo games? I maintain that
it is always more fun to write video games than it is to play them. And
rumor has it that the folks at Nintendo are releasing a new game system
soon. My attitude is that you get what you pay for. Of course Sega and
NEC systems are more advanced than Nintendo, they are NEWER MACHINES.
The last video games systemI bought was my trusty old 2600 ( before it had a
number! :-) I rent Nintendos when I have a silly urge to play a game.
--
Brett G. Person
North Dakota State University
uunet!ndsuvax!ncperson | ncpe...@ndsuvax.bitnet | ncpe...@plains.nodak.edu