ANYONE ELSE SICK OF TONY HAWK GAMES ?
interloper5
To many stupid skateboard games out on all consoles ! and Bike games too
!!! Developers these days suck ! Cause the man is always on their backs to
put out shit quick !!!!
Vincent Desrosiers
intelligent, they made TONS of money!!! And no I'm not sick of them, they
are good games.
"interloper5" <inter...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message news:
tss21e3...@corp.supernews.com...
Aaron R. Schnuth
been coming out like crazy since THPS became a big hit, leave little to be
desired.
Aaron
"interloper5" <inter...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tss21e3...@corp.supernews.com...
Daniel Mercier
appreciate the fact that Activision ports it to many platforms according to
/ regardless of their respective strengths. For instance, THPS 2 on the DC
is beautiful graphically speaking, but believe it or not the aural ambiance
is much much better in THPS 2 N64 version (check out the Marseille
Tournament) making that uglier port as entertaining if not more than the DC
one. What makes me sick, though, is the number of copycats out there; some
publishers / developers really know how to make you sick and tired of a
great concept. The gaming industry is continuously in dire need of newer
ideas, not only derivatives. I mean, Dave Mirra BMX may be great, but was it
necessary?
"interloper5" <inter...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tss21e3...@corp.supernews.com...
>
Bent Leads
> !!! Developers these days suck ! Cause the man is always on their backs to
> put out shit quick !!!!
I wouldn't phrase it the same way that you did. But yeah, there are
too many of these games, IMO. I bought the first Tony Hawk because I
heard so much praise about it. The game is well programmed, but I
just don't get what is fun about it. I can't see ever buying another
Tony Hawk game or any of the clones.
About the closest thing to it that I actually like is Jet Grind Radio.
Sweet Zombie Jesus
>
> To many stupid skateboard games out on all consoles ! and Bike games too
>!!! Developers these days suck ! Cause the man is always on their backs to
>put out shit quick !!!!
I don't care about the immitators, but Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2 on Dreamcast
is one of most well designed, fun, replayable games made in YEARS. I can
play it forever and it's always a fun and rewarding experience. I'll be
buying Tony Hawk 3 the day it comes out. I'd like to point out that I've
never bought a sports or snowboarding game or anything like that.....Tony
Hawk is in a league of its own. Great game, your loss.
-- Greg
==============================================
"Alcohol and cigarettes go together like porn and nachos"
-Pickles Oblong, "The Oblongs"
==============================================
Joshua Kraft
Amen, Brother.
I'll admit that I've never purchased the full version of any of the
Tony Haw/BMX/insert-your-Activision-Published-Extreme-Sport-Here
type-games... But with the Demos I've played, I can only scratch my
head and say...
****RANT MODE ON*****
"What's the big f___ing deal?"
Yippie-Skippie. As Cliff Yablonski of SomethingAwful.com fame might
say, "Get the Powerup and Win the Game!" It seems to be the only
concept of this game... Get more points by doing cool stunts! Collect
the Video-Tapes! Spell "S-K-A-T-E" - *YAWN*
Like Sports Titles, Tony Hawk games are a license to print money for
Activision. I respect Hawk himself, but I just can't 'get into' these
celebrity-of-the-month type games. Tony Hawk and Madden are the only
'names' I can think of that, erm, stand the test of time. Bill
Laimbeer's Combat Basketball, Cybertiger, John Elway's Quarterback
Smack Attack... whatever celebrity-endorsed crap you bring up, they
are soon discarded into the dustbin of videogame history.
"WHOA, MAN! TONY HAWK DESERVES A 10.0 MAN!" Just like Gran Turismo
3, righr? PERFECT! Bunkus.)
License some music, create shitty polygon models of 'famous' extreme
sportsmen/ladies... and Boom! Another 12 month hit!
"Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Says the gaming public"
**** RANT MODE OFF *****
If it's you're thing, fine.
How many of these uncreative, dull-ass games will people buy?
Same old crap with a new gloss of paint.
(This goes for 80% of Games Released these days, esp. Sports &
Racing... even RPGs...)
DId I say Rant Mode off? Whoops! What a gaming snob! ;-)
Sweet Zombie Jesus
>On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:36:27 -0400, "interloper5"
>How many of these uncreative, dull-ass games will people buy?
You just haven't played Tony Hawk 2 for more than a few minutes if you think
it's uncreative and dull. The game has such beautifully well thought out
level design that offers so much fun and rewards you as you get more
skillful and creative w/ your moves. Not only are there the level goals,
but within the levels, new areas can be opened up depending on the tricks
you do and such. There's always new suprizes and things to
uncover...there's always a new way to grind, do tricks, link the tricks
together, etc. There's just limitless posibilities to test your skills!
Not only that, the control becomes more and more intuitive as you play and
it just becomes second nature.
The thing I respect most about the Tony Hawk series is that Activision is
not exploiting it like Eidos did w/ Tomb Raider (i.e., crappy ports to tons
of systems). In my opinion, maximum effort is going into the various
versions. The Dreamcast one is WAY nicer looking than the PS1
version...it's not "just a port"...they did well. And the Gameboy Advance
version - Fantastic! I actually got better at the DC version after playing
the GBA version!!! It's that good!
Let me just say that I am NOT a sports game fan....my gaming diet consists
of action, fighting, platformers, shooters, old school 2D stuff, arcadey
games.....to me, Tony Hawk represents what's missing from many of todays
games....pure addictive fun and rewarding gameplay.
Herman McClain
Bosco Rooty
<inter...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Actually, this is one of the things that I bet everyone will agree on
regardless of their favorite console.
No. No one else is sick of Tony Hawk games.
R
Billy Bissette
jamofo...@gateway.net says...
> Let me just say that I am NOT a sports game fan....my gaming diet consists
> of action, fighting, platformers, shooters, old school 2D stuff, arcadey
> games.....to me, Tony Hawk represents what's missing from many of todays
> games....pure addictive fun and rewarding gameplay.
I'm not a sports game fan, I played the DC version of Tony Hawk and
thought it deserves no where near the praise it gets. It's boring as
heck, and the stunt engine is pretty weakly designed as well. (On the
the hand, I like Jet Grind.)
To make matters worse, there are tons of such games out there thanks
to Tony Hawk as well as the snowboarding game on the PSX (which led
to the snowboard game trend)... Sheesh, a Razor Scooter game? Those
things were out of style before the game was even released...
Some of the snow boarding games are pretty good, but a lot of them are
just poorly designed junk.
Seph
>thought it deserves no where near the praise it gets. It's boring as
>heck, and the stunt engine is pretty weakly designed as well. (On the
>the hand, I like Jet Grind.)
I think the reason it gets so much praise is because it's a solid game.
Boredom is something that's really relative. And THPS shouldn't be compared to
Jet Grind. They are way different games with different emphases, and liking
one IMO really shouldn't directly translate into not liking the other or like
it as well. I like both. I will agree though, that the ESTABLISHMENT making
the developers port the game to every thing except my digital toaster is not
cool, and leads to the overall degeneration of games.
--
Daytona: nineBall (Retired)
PSO: emCrysnen
KachouSen
Col. Shat
VOOT Online: SephAmp (when it comes out)
dave h.
> Skateboarding games are for teen d000Dz. I see nothing
> interesting in trying to learn "new tricks" aka learn
> new ways to wiggle the controller. "Woohoo, full 720
> degrees!". Big deal.
what's your take on the "gran turismo" series?
Doug Jacobs
> I'm not a sports game fan, I played the DC version of Tony Hawk and
> thought it deserves no where near the praise it gets. It's boring as
> heck, and the stunt engine is pretty weakly designed as well. (On the
> the hand, I like Jet Grind.)
To each their own, I guess.
Personally I found Jet Grind's stunt engine really weak. All you can do
are grinds? No Gaps, or transfers, or grabs, or flips, just grinds? I
found that a bit boring (then again, the goals of THPS and Jet Grind are
very different...)
I'll admit that it took me awhile to get the hang of THPS' trick system,
but after you start pulling off some big combos, it all seems worthwhile.
> To make matters worse, there are tons of such games out there thanks
> to Tony Hawk as well as the snowboarding game on the PSX (which led
> to the snowboard game trend)... Sheesh, a Razor Scooter game? Those
> things were out of style before the game was even released...
> Some of the snow boarding games are pretty good, but a lot of them are
> just poorly designed junk.
Well, let's put it this way, the reason there are so many similar games
is because THPS is such a great game. It really was an original game, and
nothing has come close to besting it in terms of control, level design,
tricks, etc.
The only other trick-style game I've played that comes close is SSX on the
PS2. Even then, SSX is mostly race-oriented whereas THPS is really about
pulling off a bunch of sick combos for mondo points. SSX wasn't the first
snowboarding game, but I think it's safe to say that it's the best snow
boarding game out there...at least until SSX Tricky comes out.
Doug Jacobs
> As you have seen from some replies, he is not alone. Skateboarding
> games are for teen d000Dz. I see nothing interesting in trying to
> learn "new tricks" aka learn new ways to wiggle the controller.
> "Woohoo, full 720 degrees!". Big deal.
Whoa...cool d00d...I didn't know playing THPS caused me to suddenly lose
15+ years off my age! That's R/\d!
> Suffice it to say, I dislike most fighting games for the same reason.
> I see nothing interesting in trying to "master" new difficult moves
> when it consist of nothing but testing your finger acrobatics skills
> on the controller and how many different button combinations you can
> memorize.
The same thing could be said of most console games... So, what sorts
of games DO you like that require you "test your finger acrobatics skills?"
Todd Jones
them are
> > just poorly designed junk.
>
> Well, let's put it this way, the reason there are so many similar games
> is because THPS is such a great game. It really was an original game, and
> nothing has come close to besting it in terms of control, level design,
> tricks, etc.
>
> The only other trick-style game I've played that comes close is SSX on the
> PS2. Even then, SSX is mostly race-oriented whereas THPS is really about
> pulling off a bunch of sick combos for mondo points. SSX wasn't the first
> snowboarding game, but I think it's safe to say that it's the best snow
> boarding game out there...at least until SSX Tricky comes out.<<<<<<
Amped is an attempt at a Tony Hawk-style snowboarding game. (trick/combo
oriented, no racing) The latest build *looks* good, and supposedly plays
well. But I'll reserve judgement until I'm able to try it.
Sam Altersitzł
out sounding like this... :
>
> To many stupid skateboard games out on all consoles ! and Bike games too
>!!! Developers these days suck ! Cause the man is always on their backs to
>put out shit quick !!!!
While I will agree that Neversoft has done an amazing job of putting
out the games in a timely fasion, even with designing Spider-Man for
the PSX during the interim, I will not agrre that they put out shit
quick.
Before THPS, there was but one incredible skating game (and I mean
incredible, not good....there were decent ones on the NES like Skate
or Die). That game was 720. And 720 was made in 1985, I beleive. It
was made by Atari, and was quite possibly the arcade machine that took
the most quaters in my childhood. And that's saying something when
you consider how much I played Gauntlet, Rush 'N Attack, and the
original Street Fighter.
When Neversoft designed THPS, they re-invented skating games. This
game is NOT a sports game, by any means. It is an arcade style
skating game, that just never went to an arcade. The insane amount of
air you can get is simply not realistic, but it adds to the gameplay.
The special moves are all moves that the skaters can do in real life,
and all the basic moves are just that, basic.
THPS2 was more than a sequel to a game, it was a major improvement on
the game. The graphics imporved, the engine improved, you could edit
tricks, you could create your own skaters, and skate parks, etc. But
it still retained the super-fun game play that was what made THPS so
addicting. Add in special secret characters, like Spider-Man, and it
adds all sorts of replay value. The ability to unlock cheats also
makes you want to improve your game.
Now, when you look at knock off games that came in the wake of THPS,
then you can say there is a bunch of shit out there. Grind Session
was decent, but not as good as THPS. But Neversoft knew that Shabba
Games was on the right track, and Activivsion has given the PSX port
of THPS over to Shabba Games. The Thrasher: Ska8 and Destroy game is
absoulte crap. I hear the X-Games: Skateboarding game isn't all it's
cracked up to be as well.
If you are tired of skating games, and other 'Xtreme' sports games,
then don't blame THPS. That game is great, and so is THPS2, and THPS3
should be great as well. Blame all the other publishers/developers
who saw that the games could be a success, and tried to capitalize on
the popular trend. It's all the 'me too' games that deserve the
backlash, not the one game that spawned them, and that they have never
been able to match.
------
Samł
Knowledge is power.
Power corrupts.
Study hard.
Be evil.
-Saying on a friend's T-shirt, author unkown to me.
Sam Altersitzł
<vi...@videotron.ca> attempted to sound witty, but instead came out
sounding like this... :
>The people who decided to port Tony Hawk games on every consoles are very
>intelligent, they made TONS of money!!! And no I'm not sick of them, they
>are good games.
Activision reported that THPS2 made up almost 1/2 it's entire revenue
for 2000. Or somewhere round about. That's why they started up the
O2 sub label.
Sam Altersitzł
Kraft) attempted to sound witty, but instead came out sounding like
this... :
>Amen, Brother.
>
>
>I'll admit that I've never purchased the full version of any of the
>Tony Haw/BMX/insert-your-Activision-Published-Extreme-Sport-Here
>type-games... But with the Demos I've played, I can only scratch my
>head and say...
Then play the full games.
>
>****RANT MODE ON*****
>
>"What's the big f___ing deal?"
>
>Yippie-Skippie. As Cliff Yablonski of SomethingAwful.com fame might
>say, "Get the Powerup and Win the Game!" It seems to be the only
>concept of this game... Get more points by doing cool stunts! Collect
>the Video-Tapes! Spell "S-K-A-T-E" - *YAWN*
Ok, GT3, or any other racing game: Get more money/points for winning
first place! Upgrade your car! Move onto the next circut! Beat all
the circuits to win the game!
Any FPS: Get more ammo! Shoot the enemies! Get bigger weapons so
you can defeat harder enemies and win the game!
Etc.
Notice the simmilarity? You should. That's how EVERY SINGLE GAME
basically works. You ADVANCE to beat it. What a novel idea! Perhaps
we can finally get some games where you can't really advance, and you
just get weaker while the competition gets stronger! That should make
for some great game play! (Can anyone else taste the sarcasm?)
And there is no 'power up' in THPS or THPS2 that you can get to 'win
the game.'
>
>Like Sports Titles, Tony Hawk games are a license to print money for
>Activision. I respect Hawk himself, but I just can't 'get into' these
>celebrity-of-the-month type games. Tony Hawk and Madden are the only
>'names' I can think of that, erm, stand the test of time. Bill
>Laimbeer's Combat Basketball, Cybertiger, John Elway's Quarterback
>Smack Attack... whatever celebrity-endorsed crap you bring up, they
>are soon discarded into the dustbin of videogame history.
NEWS FLASH: ALL games are just licenses to make the publishers money!
Otherwise they would just give them to us for free.
>
>"WHOA, MAN! TONY HAWK DESERVES A 10.0 MAN!" Just like Gran Turismo
>3, righr? PERFECT! Bunkus.)
THPS didn't get perfect 10's, but scored very high when it was
released. THPS2 did recieve 3 10's from EGM, and I beleive other
magazines/sites rated it simmilarly.
Let's look at your comparison, and see why it got what it did.
GT3: Improved graphics over GT2? Check. Improved gameplay over GT2?
Possibly, but I never played either game to know. Added new features
over GT2? Check. Added more cars over GT2? Check. Kept control
scheme people knew worked? Check. Deserved to score at least what GT2
did, if not more? Most likely.
THPS2: Improved graphics over THPS? Check. Improved gameplay over
THPS? Check (addition of manuals, customizable stats, cutomizable
tricks, create-a-skater and create-a-park, larger levels with more
goals). Added new features over THPS? Check (see prior). Added more
skaters over THPS? Check. Kept control scheme people knew worked?
Check. Deserved to score at least as high as THPS, if not more? Most
likely.
Thing is, they are different games, and entirely different genres.
But comparing them like this, makes you say, in these respects, they
both deserved the scores they got.
>
>License some music, create shitty polygon models of 'famous' extreme
>sportsmen/ladies... and Boom! Another 12 month hit!
License some cars, and some music..... See where that was going?
>
>"Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Says the gaming public"
Yet you are going with GT3 as an example of a perfect game? You're
just as much a sheep then. Join the flock of sheep arguing over GT3,
a popular game, and its right to have any reviews it did.
I could easily say GT3 sucks to me, because it doesn't appeal to me.
I hate racing games. I'll leave the NASCAR/circuit car racing
fantasies to the red necks, thank you very much.
>
>**** RANT MODE OFF *****
>
>If it's you're thing, fine.
Then don't rant about it.
>How many of these uncreative, dull-ass games will people buy?
How many do you thnk? The knock off games aren't selling as well as
the good ones.
>Same old crap with a new gloss of paint.
Could very well apply to GT3 as well, dude. After all, it is
cars.....
>(This goes for 80% of Games Released these days, esp. Sports &
>Racing... even RPGs...)
Then do yourself a favor, and come up with an original game design,
and get it published. If it sells, you know you are right.
>
>DId I say Rant Mode off? Whoops! What a gaming snob! ;-)
You said it, not me.
eaglovnein
On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 09:27:17 GMT, unclet...@home.com
(Sam Altersitzł) posted:
eaglovnein
On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 09:56:21 GMT, unclet...@home.com
(Sam Altersitzł) posted:
>On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 05:35:14 GMT, jos...@byebyespamexecpc.com (Joshua
John Thorenson
>Ignore this troll.
>
Thanks for posting this twice, idiot.
__
The Phone-a-Friends on "Millionaire" who repeat the question to others with
them are fucking morons. I hope the contestants who waste lifelines on these
pricks go home and kill them for playing a twenty-second "Telephone" game on
their dime.
John Thorenson
It is a perfect game. Don't cry.
>And there is no 'power up' in THPS or THPS2 that you can get to 'win
>the game.'
>
That doesn't have to be the point of every game and you know it. Go back to
sleep, idiot.
Joshua Kraft
>>I'll admit that I've never purchased the full version of any of the
>>Tony Haw/BMX/insert-your-Activision-Published-Extreme-Sport-Here
>>type-games... But with the Demos I've played, I can only scratch my
>>head and say...
>
>Then play the full games.
Looks like I'll have to take the "Tony Hawk Challenge." :)
I really enjoyed Jet Grind though...
>>Like Sports Titles, Tony Hawk games are a license to print money for
>>Activision. I respect Hawk himself, but I just can't 'get into' these
>>celebrity-of-the-month type games. Tony Hawk and Madden are the only
>>'names' I can think of that, erm, stand the test of time. Bill
>>Laimbeer's Combat Basketball, Cybertiger, John Elway's Quarterback
>>Smack Attack... whatever celebrity-endorsed crap you bring up, they
>>are soon discarded into the dustbin of videogame history.
>
>NEWS FLASH: ALL games are just licenses to make the publishers money!
>Otherwise they would just give them to us for free.
Of course, that's wonderful for the publisher. But is it really good
for the gamer? Some of us enjoy console games for their 'asthetic'
quality... And "Extreme Sports" just doesn't do it for me. Actually,
the online feature sounds intriguing... but otherwise... bleah.
"WHOA! SSX TRICKY IS COMING OUT D00D! CELEBRITY VOICES BEHIND THE
CHARACTERS! COOL TRAX FROM ALL YOUR FAVORITE ARTI5T5! 7337!"
Blaargh. Perhaps games like GT3, THPS2, etc. are maybe too close to
the everyday, the ordinary. That's why I find them dull. They
license today's "Hot Music", use today's "Hot Players/Hot
Competion/Hot Cars" - which, once again, will be discarded into the
dustbin of gaming history. No, the Gran Turismo name or Tony Hawk
legacy is not likely to fade anyime soon... But once the new iteration
arrives, with its slightly tweaked gameplay... the old one is soon
forgotten.
>Yet you are going with GT3 as an example of a perfect game? You're
>just as much a sheep then. Join the flock of sheep arguing over GT3,
>a popular game, and its right to have any reviews it did.
NO! GT3 suffers from the same syndrome as Matt Hoffman's BMX, Shawn
Diddlydoop's Snowboarder, etc. etc. If you ask me, GT3 is even MORE
derivative slop! (Profitable slop, Nicely modeled slop, but still...
slop.)
>I could easily say GT3 sucks to me, because it doesn't appeal to me.
>I hate racing games. I'll leave the NASCAR/circuit car racing
>fantasies to the red necks, thank you very much.
You accidentally took me out of context. I actually think I'd enjoy
Tony Hawk 3 more than GT3. From what I've played of GT3 (demo
kiosks), I'm not impressed either. The whole racing genre needs a
kick in the ass..even more-so than the 'extreme sports' genre, which
is wasting away in the same gawd-awful swamp that traditional sports
games are soaking in... a quick buck on an annual update.
>>
>>**** RANT MODE OFF *****
>>
>>If it's you're thing, fine.
>
>Then don't rant about it.
>
>>How many of these uncreative, dull-ass games will people buy?
>
>How many do you thnk? The knock off games aren't selling as well as
>the good ones.
Hmm... Wonder how "Yanya Caballista City Skater" sales will compare to
Jet Grind Radio... :P
>>(Rehash rant nonsense)
>>(This goes for 80% of Games Released these days, esp. Sports &
>>Racing... even RPGs...)
>
>Then do yourself a favor, and come up with an original game design,
>and get it published. If it sells, you know you are right.
Granted, it's easy to complain. A book critic should write their own
book, a movie critic should produce their own movie, etc. etc. etc.
Unfortunately, some of us have a -long- way to go in that department.
Just because I don't hold public office, doesn't mean that I do not
have the right to criticise my government... likewise, just because I
don't develop console software, doesn't mean I can't hold an opinion
on the content therein.
I'll admit that I'm a shoot-em-up (ala Gigawing 2, Radiant Silvergun,
Dodonpachi) and fighter-type guy... I can -easily- see people bashing
those genres just as quickly as I bash sports, 'xtreme' sports, and
the racing genre. (Cretins! Philistines! j/k of course...)
However, Shmups and Fighters seem to have a distinct artistic feel to
them... It's like going to a grand festival and seeing how each
company (Atlus, Capcom, Psykio, Treasure, etc.) interprets the genre.
Unique graphics, unique design, unique music. Like Sundance or
something, but a lot more fun, and a -lot- less pretension! ^_^
Take your sports and racing genre... how many ways are there to
interpret football, basketballl, skateboarding, racing? Developers
seem to be running out of ideas in these genres. No one should ever
feel the need to buy a Racing/Sports/Extreme Sports title
immediately... because there will -always- be someting just like it,
improved by a miniscule percent (usually), on an annual/semi-annual
basis.
Can you imagine someone going up to some gaming historian and saying,
"Madden '97. Now that year -ruled-" - or perhaps, saying "Ridge Racer
3... Damn, that was tight!" or "Joseph Stalin's Xtreme Peasant Purge
4...that was -so- totalitarianly tubular!" Most of these titles will
just not stand the test of time.I sure as hell don't want to play
Daytona on Saturn, Or Ridge Racer on Playstation... or Top Gear Rally
on SNES. Want to buy a copy for $5.00? :P
Compare Sports and Racing titles to... oh, say Fighting and
Shoot-em-Up titles... hell, even RPGs. Which genres have expanded the
most? Which ones are stuck in a rut? At lease -some- companies are
willing to give online play a try and try different scoring techniques
than just 'WIN da RACE and unlock CoOler Carz!' or 'Un1ock Os4m4 bin
b0ard3r', 2nd place Muhadjin Championship Snowboarder who will become
a total has-been 3 months later after he checks into rehab and blows
his kneecaps out."
We're approaching a point where the 2D and 3D barriers have been
overcome... Sorry, but Dreamcast has been the last console to really
'wow' with its graphics prowress. Neither PS2, nor GC, nor XBox are
blowing anyone away, graphically speaking. Some marked improvements?
Certainly. Revolutionary? No.
The revolution will no longer be won by polygon specs.
From this time forward, artistry, vision, and the "4th Dimension" of
gaming (i.e. special peripherals, online gaming, etc.) will define
and drive new gaming experiences.
Damn, need to start a new thread already... :)
TONY HAWK 4EVER, PEACE!
(Damn you, Activision, if you call the next installment Tony Hawk
4Ever... :P)
George and Linda
Joshua Kraft <jos...@byebyespamexecpc.com> wrote in message
news:3bd43e44$0$30975$272e...@news.execpc.com...
>
> Blaargh. Perhaps games like GT3, THPS2, etc. are maybe too close to
> the everyday, the ordinary. That's why I find them dull.
This is my problem with the Tony Hawk games. Apparently I'm a heretic and a
troll for not liking them, judging by the reactions of some previous
posters, but I have played few games as dull (to me) as Tony Hawk. People
who like the game can argue until they're blue in the face that it has
fabulous levels and astoundingly deep trick combo systems, but it's still a
game about "extreme" skateboarding, and said subject bores me to tears. I
feel the same for any game that does nothing but model some "extreme" sport
based on doing tricks (skateboards, bikes, snowboards, rollerblades,
scooters, etc.). I'm not saying that others shouldn't like them or that
they're bad games just because I don't like them, but a number of posters in
this thread have indicated that anyone who doesn't like THPS is either a
troll or incapable of making an informed choice in the matter without
finishing the game. That's just stupid.
George K.
Doug Jacobs
>>Then play the full games.
> Looks like I'll have to take the "Tony Hawk Challenge." :)
> I really enjoyed Jet Grind though...
They're very different... I had problems switching to JGR because I
kept trying to do THPS-esque tricks and JGR just doesn't do that.
I would reccomend THPS as at least a rental. Pick a skater, and have
at it. Took me a few hours to be able to do some basic tricks, then
a few more to get some combos down pat.
> Of course, that's wonderful for the publisher. But is it really good
> for the gamer? Some of us enjoy console games for their 'asthetic'
> quality... And "Extreme Sports" just doesn't do it for me. Actually,
> the online feature sounds intriguing... but otherwise... bleah.
> "WHOA! SSX TRICKY IS COMING OUT D00D! CELEBRITY VOICES BEHIND THE
> CHARACTERS! COOL TRAX FROM ALL YOUR FAVORITE ARTI5T5! 7337!"
> Blaargh. Perhaps games like GT3, THPS2, etc. are maybe too close to
> the everyday, the ordinary. That's why I find them dull. They
> license today's "Hot Music", use today's "Hot Players/Hot
> Competion/Hot Cars" - which, once again, will be discarded into the
> dustbin of gaming history. No, the Gran Turismo name or Tony Hawk
> legacy is not likely to fade anyime soon... But once the new iteration
> arrives, with its slightly tweaked gameplay... the old one is soon
> forgotten.
While the act of snowboarding may be "ordinary", the tracks in SSX are
anything but. There's one level where you go 'boarding through downtown -
and when I say "through downtown" I mean *through* it - you can literally
land inside an office building as a shortcut! I'd like to see someone
try that in real life. (wait, no I wouldn't...it'd be a bloody mess.)
>>Yet you are going with GT3 as an example of a perfect game? You're
>>just as much a sheep then. Join the flock of sheep arguing over GT3,
>>a popular game, and its right to have any reviews it did.
> NO! GT3 suffers from the same syndrome as Matt Hoffman's BMX, Shawn
> Diddlydoop's Snowboarder, etc. etc. If you ask me, GT3 is even MORE
> derivative slop! (Profitable slop, Nicely modeled slop, but still...
> slop.)
It's no different from, say, the Final Fantasy series. Each one adds
some new technology, some new systems, but the underlying system remains
the same. In fact, the underlying gameplay remains largely the same as
well.
> You accidentally took me out of context. I actually think I'd enjoy
> Tony Hawk 3 more than GT3. From what I've played of GT3 (demo
> kiosks), I'm not impressed either. The whole racing genre needs a
> kick in the ass..even more-so than the 'extreme sports' genre, which
> is wasting away in the same gawd-awful swamp that traditional sports
> games are soaking in... a quick buck on an annual update.
There have been different types of racing games - Pod Racer, for instance,
or that one racing that tries to combine the standard race car with SSX-esque
tricks. That one didn't do very well..
Sports games are supposed to be a simulation. The idea is to mimic real
life as much as possible, so if that means no flying cars with lasers,
there's a good reason for that. This is where the artistry lies. Being
able to present more realistic graphics, better player AI, etc.
> Take your sports and racing genre... how many ways are there to
> interpret football, basketballl, skateboarding, racing? Developers
> seem to be running out of ideas in these genres. No one should ever
> feel the need to buy a Racing/Sports/Extreme Sports title
> immediately... because there will -always- be someting just like it,
> improved by a miniscule percent (usually), on an annual/semi-annual
> basis.
It just becomes a matter of buying the best in the genre. In the case
of racing games, GT3 is seen as such a game. No other race game provides
so many cars and races for you to acquire and beat. On top of that, they
try to model real cars. So if you're a car buff, now you can get some idea
of what it's like to drive a variety of cars in a racing situation. Again,
the art comes from how well they model reality. I'm not saying GT3 doesn't
have its problems, but it's still a good game in this area. Like other
sports games, the realism is where the artistry lies. Modelling the way
rain or heat affect the images, for instance.
> Can you imagine someone going up to some gaming historian and saying,
> "Madden '97. Now that year -ruled-" - or perhaps, saying "Ridge Racer
> 3... Damn, that was tight!" or "Joseph Stalin's Xtreme Peasant Purge
> 4...that was -so- totalitarianly tubular!" Most of these titles will
> just not stand the test of time.I sure as hell don't want to play
> Daytona on Saturn, Or Ridge Racer on Playstation... or Top Gear Rally
> on SNES. Want to buy a copy for $5.00? :P
Actually, yes, I have seen people point to an "older" game over its newer
version. Newer doesn't always mean better.
Otherwise, why else would we have so many people still playing games on
long-abandonned hardware?
> Compare Sports and Racing titles to... oh, say Fighting and
> Shoot-em-Up titles... hell, even RPGs. Which genres have expanded the
> most? Which ones are stuck in a rut? At lease -some- companies are
> willing to give online play a try and try different scoring techniques
> than just 'WIN da RACE and unlock CoOler Carz!' or 'Un1ock Os4m4 bin
> b0ard3r', 2nd place Muhadjin Championship Snowboarder who will become
> a total has-been 3 months later after he checks into rehab and blows
> his kneecaps out."
I'm primarily a RPG fan, but enjoy an ocassional shooter, fighter or
platformer.
However...
Shooters haven't progressed very far at all. Shoot stuff, to get power ups
so you can shoot more, bigger stuff, faster, and eventually kill the last
boss. Other than spiffier graphics, you can practically link a shooter to
at least one older game in the genre. Seems the only real advancement is
to up the number of firepower being aimmed at you. If you can twitch real
good, fine. But there's not a whole lot you can do vs. a screen full of
bullets...
RPGs haven't progressed very far at all either. Kill stuff, so you can
level up (get more powerful) buy/find/make more powerful stuff, so you can
kill more power stuff, and eventually kill the last boss. The only
advancement here has been in better and 3d graphics and FMV (which some
argue isn't a good thing.) The story is the main meat of a RPG, but many
of them have very simplistic and cliche-ridden stories. And the underlying
mechanics have changed little. Equip your characters with armor, items and
a weapon. Use money to buy better stuff. Have random/minor encounters in
dungeons, which often culminate with a boss battle. Save points - even in
this day and age of memory cards. Etc.
Fighters haven't progressed very far recentally either. Learn a bunch of
basic, combos and special moves so you can beat up opponents faster than
they can beat you up. The only real advancements here have been to towards
3d graphics and more realistic models, moves, etc. Personally, I think it's
only a matter of time before someone comes up with a game with graphics like
DOA2 or Tekken, the solid control style of a Capcom fighter, and the moves
from a "wire-fu" movie like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Now, *that*
would be an advancement. Right now, you have the 2d "fantasical" fighters,
with fireballs and such, and then you have the 3d "realistic" fighters, which
are more concerned with modeling the figures properly, which sometimes
results in stiff gameplay.
> We're approaching a point where the 2D and 3D barriers have been
> overcome... Sorry, but Dreamcast has been the last console to really
> 'wow' with its graphics prowress. Neither PS2, nor GC, nor XBox are
> blowing anyone away, graphically speaking. Some marked improvements?
> Certainly. Revolutionary? No.
I dunno, the DC hasn't really wowed me graphically either. Better than the
PSX? Hard to say. There aren't many games I can do a direct comparison
with.
And there's *tons* of improvement to be done in the 3d field. Don't think
we won't be seeing any improvement there - especially in the sports genres
:)
Sam Altersitzł
Kraft) attempted to sound witty, but instead came out sounding like
this... :
>Looks like I'll have to take the "Tony Hawk Challenge." :)
>I really enjoyed Jet Grind though...
I still enjoy JGR. But it's an entirely different game. You have no
control over your tricks in JGR, you either have enough speed to do
them, or you don't. But tricks aren't the meat of that game's game
play, the grafitti is. In THPS (1&2) the meat is in the tricks.
>Of course, that's wonderful for the publisher. But is it really good
>for the gamer? Some of us enjoy console games for their 'asthetic'
>quality... And "Extreme Sports" just doesn't do it for me. Actually,
>the online feature sounds intriguing... but otherwise... bleah.
The only 'Xtreme sports' games I play are the THPS ones. I'm not a
BMX fan. I'm not a nock-off-let's-cash-in-on-THPS-poularity skating
game fan either. If the games have something to them, then yes. Take
Grind Session, for example. It's not as good, graphically, or
controll wise, as the THPS games....yet, it adds something by giving
you the ability to increase your time for getting really hard lines.
As such, I like the game for that. It also had a balance meter for
grinds, which THPS3 is finally introducing (something I think would
have been nice at least in THPS2).
I used to skate, so I thought of giving THPS a try. I loved it. It's
simply the best skating game to come out since 720 all those years
ago.....ah, memories....now I must play my Arcade Smash Pack, or
whatever it was called, that has 720 on it for the PSX (or my MAME,
whichever I feel like turning on first).
>
>"WHOA! SSX TRICKY IS COMING OUT D00D! CELEBRITY VOICES BEHIND THE
>CHARACTERS! COOL TRAX FROM ALL YOUR FAVORITE ARTI5T5! 7337!"
I never really got into SSX either. Sure, the graphics were nice, but
I couldn't handle the control, as it isn't as intuitive as the THPS
series.
That's the other thing about the THPS series that makes it so popular.
The controll is amazingliy simple, and easy to learn. After about a
half hour of playing, anyone can start pulling off cool looking combos
(even if they aren't scoring the monster million+ point combos), and
feel like they've accomplished something.
>
>Blaargh. Perhaps games like GT3, THPS2, etc. are maybe too close to
>the everyday, the ordinary. That's why I find them dull. They
>license today's "Hot Music", use today's "Hot Players/Hot
>Competion/Hot Cars" - which, once again, will be discarded into the
>dustbin of gaming history. No, the Gran Turismo name or Tony Hawk
>legacy is not likely to fade anyime soon... But once the new iteration
>arrives, with its slightly tweaked gameplay... the old one is soon
>forgotten.
Um, I still play my THPS, and my THPS2. There's things different in
each one, and the game play is too much fun to stop. Besides, I
turned on my THPS after playing THPS2 for a while, and noticed I was
actually able to pull off better combos in 1, because I could do them
in 2 (minus the manuals, which weren't in 1). Simply getting THPS3
isn't going to make me stop playing the earlier ones.
<snop>
>You accidentally took me out of context. I actually think I'd enjoy
>Tony Hawk 3 more than GT3. From what I've played of GT3 (demo
>kiosks), I'm not impressed either. The whole racing genre needs a
>kick in the ass..even more-so than the 'extreme sports' genre, which
>is wasting away in the same gawd-awful swamp that traditional sports
>games are soaking in... a quick buck on an annual update.
Sorry, the context made it sound like you were saying GT3 was a good
example of a perfect game. Sarcasm has little effect over USENET.
Lack of voice inflections, facial features, etc.
>Hmm... Wonder how "Yanya Caballista City Skater" sales will compare to
>Jet Grind Radio... :P
I'm actually upset JGR didn't do as well as it SHOULD have. I guess
people took it for a THPS nock-off (like Omar does). It isn't. It's
about the furthest thing from it. But the game deserved to sell more
than it did. Hell, the ability to download, and use JPEG files as
your graffitti should have sold more people on it (granted, there
would be some naked women graffitti, but I could live with it if it
looked cool).
>Granted, it's easy to complain. A book critic should write their own
>book, a movie critic should produce their own movie, etc. etc. etc.
>Unfortunately, some of us have a -long- way to go in that department.
>Just because I don't hold public office, doesn't mean that I do not
>have the right to criticise my government... likewise, just because I
>don't develop console software, doesn't mean I can't hold an opinion
>on the content therein.
True, but at least try and play a game before saying everything's bad
about it. Hell, even I can only say 1 really bad thing about HALO
right now....it looks like a PC game. I haven't played it. But in
many respects, I know what to expect....it's another FPS game.
>
>I'll admit that I'm a shoot-em-up (ala Gigawing 2, Radiant Silvergun,
>Dodonpachi) and fighter-type guy... I can -easily- see people bashing
>those genres just as quickly as I bash sports, 'xtreme' sports, and
>the racing genre. (Cretins! Philistines! j/k of course...)
Shooters rock, and always will. Long live RAIDEN! Long live GRADIUS!
Long live R-TYPE! Mmmmm, R-Type. Now you've gone and made me need a
new ROM for my MAME.
>
>However, Shmups and Fighters seem to have a distinct artistic feel to
>them... It's like going to a grand festival and seeing how each
>company (Atlus, Capcom, Psykio, Treasure, etc.) interprets the genre.
>Unique graphics, unique design, unique music. Like Sundance or
>something, but a lot more fun, and a -lot- less pretension! ^_^
The fighting game genere is getting saturated now as well. what we
need is something brand new. Unfortunately, I don't think anything
past Clay Fighter has added something truly new. And you have to
admit, claymation models fighting was original (and fun).
>
>Take your sports and racing genre... how many ways are there to
>interpret football, basketballl, skateboarding, racing? Developers
>seem to be running out of ideas in these genres. No one should ever
>feel the need to buy a Racing/Sports/Extreme Sports title
>immediately... because there will -always- be someting just like it,
>improved by a miniscule percent (usually), on an annual/semi-annual
>basis.
>
>Can you imagine someone going up to some gaming historian and saying,
>"Madden '97. Now that year -ruled-" - or perhaps, saying "Ridge Racer
>3... Damn, that was tight!" or "Joseph Stalin's Xtreme Peasant Purge
>4...that was -so- totalitarianly tubular!" Most of these titles will
>just not stand the test of time.I sure as hell don't want to play
>Daytona on Saturn, Or Ridge Racer on Playstation... or Top Gear Rally
>on SNES. Want to buy a copy for $5.00? :P
Well, actually, a lot of us do talk about which of the games was the
best. My friends and I STILL get together for Tecmo Bowl, and Super
Tecmo Bowl tounaments. We still feel that NHL 93 on the Geneis was
great, and NHL 94 (or 95, I can't remember exactly right now) on the
SNES was the best one on that system. And nothing can ever top RC-Pro
Am in the racing genre. =-)
>Compare Sports and Racing titles to... oh, say Fighting and
>Shoot-em-Up titles... hell, even RPGs. Which genres have expanded the
>most? Which ones are stuck in a rut? At lease -some- companies are
>willing to give online play a try and try different scoring techniques
>than just 'WIN da RACE and unlock CoOler Carz!' or 'Un1ock Os4m4 bin
>b0ard3r', 2nd place Muhadjin Championship Snowboarder who will become
>a total has-been 3 months later after he checks into rehab and blows
>his kneecaps out."
In many cases, RPG's are in the worst rut. Revolutionary titles like
Secret of Mana, or ChronoTrigger, just don't pup up as often anymore.
Square tends to stay with FF, as it makes them the most money. Other
companies try to rip off FF. Capcom's Breath of Fire series was good,
but was still your basic console RPG.
Sports games just tend to add new players, and update rosters. In
many cases, there is little done to the actual game engine. I'd
rather they just release update CD's for rosters if they aren't going
to add new game play features. But, they make the money every year,
so they release the games every year. But I only buy the new NHL
every 3-4 years, not every year. And I don't buy NFL, NBA, or most
other sports games, with the sometimes exception of FIFA, at all.
>We're approaching a point where the 2D and 3D barriers have been
>overcome... Sorry, but Dreamcast has been the last console to really
>'wow' with its graphics prowress. Neither PS2, nor GC, nor XBox are
>blowing anyone away, graphically speaking. Some marked improvements?
>Certainly. Revolutionary? No.
That's debatable, as always. I've seen some things on the PS2 that
just wowed me. The replays of Project Gotham are astounding, almost
looking like real life. The texturing I've seen in many GameCube
games is simply amazing.
>The revolution will no longer be won by polygon specs.
>From this time forward, artistry, vision, and the "4th Dimension" of
>gaming (i.e. special peripherals, online gaming, etc.) will define
>and drive new gaming experiences.
Peripherals may not be the way to go, as they typically don't sell.
Online will be seen soon, so we can see then.