Best PC Pad For Genny Emulation?
Chakan
(and some of us have to, taking screens, etc. without owning a cool
gfx card), you might as well be doing it the most faitful/comfortable
way possible.
So what PC gaming pads do you think are best for use with Gens, Kega,
etc? Personally, I prefer the Street Fighter II control pad that came
with the PC release. It's white and has the same exact shape and
layout of the 6-button pad, but - iirc - it's about the size of the
original 3-button pad. Wish I still had this. :\
-Chakan
SegaFans
http://www.classicgaming.com/saturn
Charles Doane
Chakan wrote:
> Well, if you're going to be playing Genesis games through an emulator
> (and some of us have to, taking screens, etc. without owning a cool
> gfx card), you might as well be doing it the most faitful/comfortable
> way possible.
There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for using an ILLEGAL Genesis emulator.
What you are doing is CRIMINAL, it is EVIL, it is WRONG and you should
FRY IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR for even considering it, you pirating son of
a bitch!
What in the hell is your excuse? HUH? What's your excuse, you thieving
bastard? Come on, I've heard 'em all.
Genesis TOO BIG? A Genesis 3 fits in the palm of your hand, so don't
give me that. No PC is smaller that that.
TV's are too huge? What a load of BS when LCD displays are so cheap.
Not to mention you can get a NOMAD for $60 or so.
> So what PC gaming pads do you think are best for use with Gens, Kega,
> etc? Personally, I prefer the Street Fighter II control pad that came
> with the PC release. It's white and has the same exact shape and
> layout of the 6-button pad, but - iirc - it's about the size of the
> original 3-button pad. Wish I still had this. :\
I do have that pad, and it's nothing like a well-built console pad.
The freakish curve across the top makes it practically useless for
what it was designed for, and it feels cheaper than an inflatable
whore. It doesn't even WORK except for the A and B buttons.
You filthy PC gamer scumbags should stay the hell away from console
gaming. Maybe if you creeps would STOP STEALING in order to play
games on the PC, the PC would have some games made for it worth the
playing. You thieves have ALREADY stolen PC gaming into the toilet,
so LAY OFF of console gaming. Go enjoy the hellhole your kind dug
pirating PC games. Bastards like you have ruined PC gaming.
I'm not going to stand by and say nothing as you ruin console
gaming too.
--
Oh, oh. Here come those crazy aliens again. Help me, Elllleeot!
Help me get home! (Atari 2600 E.T. manual, worst game ever made)
Mark Bradshaw
wrote:
Microsoft makes the best side-scrolling platformer controller ever, in
thier (now) standard USB gamepad. It features and excellent, floating
d-pad, six largish face buttons, two auxillary buttons that could
easily serve as start/option buttons, and a pair of shoulder triggers.
Offhand, I'd try to stay away from Gravis for 2-d gaming. Ther d-pads
are far too mushy and ill-defined for precision work.
Phillip Roncoroni
news:3DB334EF...@mindspring.com...
>
>
> Chakan wrote:
> > Well, if you're going to be playing Genesis games through an emulator
> > (and some of us have to, taking screens, etc. without owning a cool
> > gfx card), you might as well be doing it the most faitful/comfortable
> > way possible.
>
> There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for using an ILLEGAL Genesis emulator.
> What you are doing is CRIMINAL, it is EVIL, it is WRONG and you should
> FRY IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR for even considering it, you pirating son of
> a bitch!
hahahahahaha...
>
> What in the hell is your excuse? HUH? What's your excuse, you thieving
> bastard? Come on, I've heard 'em all.
Stop... you're killing me...
>
> Genesis TOO BIG? A Genesis 3 fits in the palm of your hand, so don't
> give me that. No PC is smaller that that.
A laptop isn't smaller than a Genesis 2, Sega CD, and 32X combo?
>
> TV's are too huge? What a load of BS when LCD displays are so cheap.
> Not to mention you can get a NOMAD for $60 or so.
Find me a brand new Nomad for $60.
>
> > So what PC gaming pads do you think are best for use with Gens, Kega,
> > etc? Personally, I prefer the Street Fighter II control pad that came
> > with the PC release. It's white and has the same exact shape and
> > layout of the 6-button pad, but - iirc - it's about the size of the
> > original 3-button pad. Wish I still had this. :\
>
> I do have that pad, and it's nothing like a well-built console pad.
> The freakish curve across the top makes it practically useless for
> what it was designed for, and it feels cheaper than an inflatable
> whore. It doesn't even WORK except for the A and B buttons.
>
> You filthy PC gamer scumbags should stay the hell away from console
> gaming. Maybe if you creeps would STOP STEALING in order to play
> games on the PC, the PC would have some games made for it worth the
> playing. You thieves have ALREADY stolen PC gaming into the toilet,
> so LAY OFF of console gaming. Go enjoy the hellhole your kind dug
> pirating PC games. Bastards like you have ruined PC gaming.
> I'm not going to stand by and say nothing as you ruin console
> gaming too.
When's the last time you even played a PC game?
--
GoodCow =)
- "GoodCow2K" on AIM
GoodCow's Farm: http://www.sapphirewired.com/goodcow/
GoodCow's LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/goodcow/
--
Chakan
<gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>Chakan wrote:
>> Well, if you're going to be playing Genesis games through an emulator
>> (and some of us have to, taking screens, etc. without owning a cool
>> gfx card), you might as well be doing it the most faitful/comfortable
>> way possible.
>
>There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for using an ILLEGAL Genesis emulator.
>What you are doing is CRIMINAL, it is EVIL, it is WRONG and you should
>FRY IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR for even considering it, you pirating son of
>a bitch!
>
>What in the hell is your excuse? HUH? What's your excuse, you thieving
>bastard? Come on, I've heard 'em all.
>
>Genesis TOO BIG? A Genesis 3 fits in the palm of your hand, so don't
>give me that. No PC is smaller that that.
>
>TV's are too huge? What a load of BS when LCD displays are so cheap.
>Not to mention you can get a NOMAD for $60 or so.
I certainly hope this is a joke... I've got a Genny model 1/SCD model
2 combo running right now with Sonic CD playing. All legit items I
paid for. I enjoy playing my games on my television more, but I sure
as fuck will use emulation when A) it's simpler than hooking one of my
closeted consoles up to my already crowded television or B) I need to
take screenshots.
>> So what PC gaming pads do you think are best for use with Gens, Kega,
>> etc? Personally, I prefer the Street Fighter II control pad that came
>> with the PC release. It's white and has the same exact shape and
>> layout of the 6-button pad, but - iirc - it's about the size of the
>> original 3-button pad. Wish I still had this. :\
>
>I do have that pad, and it's nothing like a well-built console pad.
>The freakish curve across the top makes it practically useless for
>what it was designed for, and it feels cheaper than an inflatable
>whore. It doesn't even WORK except for the A and B buttons.
>
>You filthy PC gamer scumbags should stay the hell away from console
>gaming. Maybe if you creeps would STOP STEALING in order to play
>games on the PC, the PC would have some games made for it worth the
>playing. You thieves have ALREADY stolen PC gaming into the toilet,
>so LAY OFF of console gaming. Go enjoy the hellhole your kind dug
>pirating PC games. Bastards like you have ruined PC gaming.
>I'm not going to stand by and say nothing as you ruin console
>gaming too.
Haha. I don't play PC games. They are - usually - the suck (imo). :P
Warcraft II being one of the few exceptions that were just AWESOME
back in the day...
-Chakan
SegaFans
http://www.classicgaming.com/saturn
Charles Doane
Phillip Roncoroni wrote:
> "Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:3DB334EF...@mindspring.com...
>
>>Genesis TOO BIG? A Genesis 3 fits in the palm of your hand, so don't
>>give me that. No PC is smaller that that.
>
>
> A laptop isn't smaller than a Genesis 2, Sega CD, and 32X combo?
Yeah, like there are a whole lot of people buying laptops for gaming.
My Visor Handspring Prism is still pretty impressive, until people
find out what the thing costs. Then it's just techie junk.
>>TV's are too huge? What a load of BS when LCD displays are so cheap.
>>Not to mention you can get a NOMAD for $60 or so.
> Find me a brand new Nomad for $60.
I can do it used. The Game Crazy store in Chandler has about 4 of 'em.
You're not even trying. You want me to do your footwork? You want
'brand new'? Typical pirate, making excuses and crying about making
any effort. If it doesn't land in your lap, it's impossible; that's
the way pirates think.
> When's the last time you even played a PC game?
Hexen, 1996. I bought the PC version and the Saturn version, and the
Saturn version was leagues better than the PC version. For starters,
the Saturn version actually WORKED. The PC version took a week of
tweaking and then I still wasn't satisfied that it was as good as it
could be.
It always bothered me. It still does. Maybe if I had MORE POWER,
the game would be better. Kinda ridiculous, since this PC could
run rings around what Hexen required. It won't ever make the game
any better.
I consider the Saturn version of Hexen to be the definitive version.
That is the one optimized by experts for a known hardware platform.
Screwballs trying to get it to work for their kluge are wasting time.
I hate PC games. They're nothing more than a damned pissing contest.
Yeah, I'm running an AMD Athlon2000+.
Is that supposed to IMPRESS anybody?
If you're impressed by that, seek help, please. It's a piece of
crap and I only grabbed it because I really liked the demo machine.
It ain't a powerhouse, and it's way more than I think I need.
It's bad enough that console gamers have pissing contests.
PC gamers go nuts over stupid CARDS in their PC's. They'll freak
over whether a game does 90 FPS or 180 FPS, as if it matters.
They're more worried about the specs than they are about the games.
They're insane, they're unreasonable, and they're morons.
If I talk about a game, I don't want to hear about how his machine
kicks my machine's ass. PC gaming is a pissing contest.
Count me out.
Charles Doane
Chakan wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Oct 2002 15:57:51 -0700, Charles Doane
> <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Chakan wrote:
>>
>>>Well, if you're going to be playing Genesis games through an emulator
>>>(and some of us have to, taking screens, etc. without owning a cool
>>>gfx card), you might as well be doing it the most faitful/comfortable
>>>way possible.
>>
>>There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for using an ILLEGAL Genesis emulator.
>>What you are doing is CRIMINAL, it is EVIL, it is WRONG and you should
>>FRY IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR for even considering it, you pirating son of
>>a bitch!
>>
>>What in the hell is your excuse? HUH? What's your excuse, you thieving
>>bastard? Come on, I've heard 'em all.
>>
>>Genesis TOO BIG? A Genesis 3 fits in the palm of your hand, so don't
>>give me that. No PC is smaller that that.
>>
>>TV's are too huge? What a load of BS when LCD displays are so cheap.
>>Not to mention you can get a NOMAD for $60 or so.
>
>
> I certainly hope this is a joke... I've got a Genny model 1/SCD model
> 2 combo running right now with Sonic CD playing. All legit items I
> paid for.
You're taking more license than what you paid for.
You paid for ONE COPY. Only one. Not two.
> I enjoy playing my games on my television more, but I sure
> as fu&* will use emulation when A) it's simpler than hooking one of my
> closeted consoles up to my already crowded television or B) I need to
> take screenshots.
You are using illegal copies to make illegal copies.
You don't "need to take screenshots", you pirate bastard. What in the
hell "need" do you have for them? You don't NEED them, you NUTCAKE.
<snip>
>>You filthy PC gamer scumbags should stay the hell away from console
>>gaming. Maybe if you creeps would STOP STEALING in order to play
>>games on the PC, the PC would have some games made for it worth the
>>playing. You thieves have ALREADY stolen PC gaming into the toilet,
>>so LAY OFF of console gaming. Go enjoy the hellhole your kind dug
>>pirating PC games. Bastards like you have ruined PC gaming.
>>I'm not going to stand by and say nothing as you ruin console
>>gaming too.
>
>
> Haha. I don't play PC games. They are - usually - the suck (imo). :P
Then you should not be playing games on a PC, you filth. Damned
thieving scum thinks that owning a PC means free games. Bastards.
I hate you PC gamers. You're nothing but a drag on the hobby.
> Warcraft II being one of the few exceptions that were just AWESOME
> back in the day...
Then go play that crap and leave good console games alone.
Pirate bastard.
Shadow
> > Well, if you're going to be playing Genesis games through an emulator
> > (and some of us have to, taking screens, etc. without owning a cool
> > gfx card), you might as well be doing it the most faitful/comfortable
> > way possible.
>
> There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for using an ILLEGAL Genesis emulator.
> What you are doing is CRIMINAL, it is EVIL, it is WRONG and you should
> FRY IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR for even considering it, you pirating son of
> a bitch!
Oh go pork a basset hound you furvert troll...
Chakan
<gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>You're taking more license than what you paid for.
>You paid for ONE COPY. Only one. Not two.
I knew it. This guy took Emulation-related lessons from Nintendo.
-Chakan
SegaFans
http://www.classicgaming.com/saturn
Charles Doane
A troll is a damned sight better than any thief, you son of a bitch.
Charles Doane
Nintendo has done as much for classic gaming as anyone. Their
"Mario All-Stars" collection on the SNES is one of the best
retro-gaming compilations of all time. The GBA is getting
Nintendo classics hand over fist, and there's no excuse to
STEAL to get them.
There's no excuse for emulation. If some pansy wants to play
a Genesis game, then he can get a Genesis and the game. If not,
then he does without. Stealing is not an acceptable alternative.
Billy J. Dancefloor
> There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for...farrrrrrrrrrt...emulator.
> What you are doing is...farrrrrrrrrrt...EVIL, it is WRONG and
> you should...farrrrrrrrrrt...IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR for even
> considering it, you...farrrrrrrrrrt...bitch!
>
> What in the hell is your excuse? HUH? What's...farrrrrrrrrrt...
> thieving bastard? Come...farrrrrrrrrrt...'em all.
>
> Genesis...farrrrrrrrrrt...fits in the palm of your hand, so
> don't...farrrrrrrrrrt...No PC is smaller that that.
>
> TV's are too huge? What a load of...farrrrrrrrrrt...are so cheap.
> Not to mention you can...farrrrrrrrrrt...for $60 or so.
>
> You filthy PC gamer scumbags...farrrrrrrrrrt...from console gaming.
> Maybe if you creeps would STOP STEALING...farrrrrrrrrrt... games on
> the PC, the PC would have some games made for it worth the playing.
> You thieves...farrrrrrrrrrt...the toilet, so LAY OFF of console
> gaming. Go enjoy...farrrrrrrrrrt...dug pirating PC games. Bastards
> like you have...farrrrrrrrrrt...I'm not going to...farrrrrrrrrrt...
> and say nothing as you ruin console...farrrrrrrrrrt...
Doanenuts stinks.
Raymond McKeithen II
"Chakan" <cha...@classicgaming.com> wrote in message
news:3db37174....@news.netpluscom.com...
> On Sun, 20 Oct 2002 19:50:23 -0700, Charles Doane
> <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >You're taking more license than what you paid for.
> >You paid for ONE COPY. Only one. Not two.
>
> I knew it. This guy took Emulation-related lessons from Nintendo.
I think Nintendo has more say over the matter than you do...
Darkfalz
Sidewinder original gamepads (game port, not USB or any of that nonsense).
6 buttons, similar shape, feel to a mega drive, even an "M" button to use as
mode as a start button! Also two triggers, but they aren't much use in
Genesis emulators.
I think MS still make them too.. don't get the gamepad pro or any of that
crap!
Chakan
<gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>There's no excuse for emulation. If some pansy wants to play
>a Genesis game, then he can get a Genesis and the game. If not,
>then he does without. Stealing is not an acceptable alternative.
Listen, YOU DENSE ASS FUCKWAD: I fucking own every goddamn game I
play. I paid for them, and I sure as fuck will play them whatever way
I please. If that means hacking my controllers, playing MY games on an
emulator, or even copying the cd of a Japanese game and modifying it
for use on my US Saturn, well, guess what? I'm protected to do so.
It's my right.
As long as I don't distribute or sell modified games (and possibly
hardware), give someone roms of games I own, or play roms of games I
don't own. This is, as far as I know, still the way that the law
stands is interpreted in US courts. SO SHUT THE FUCK UP. Playing my -
that I own - games in an unorthadox manner DOES NOT EQUATE THE ACT OF
THEFT. Feel free to direct me to any court decisions or new laws that
state otherwise. I'll gladly read them.
Emulation is not stealing. Sure, it provides an avenue for many to
play games they don't own (NOT ME), but it does NOT make the act of
using an emulator illegal. Knives provide a way for people to stab or
mug and damage property, but owning and using one for legit puposes is
not illegal. :P
Stop reading Nintendo-published (or any other company's) press
releases concerning emulation, unliscenced games and products, and
anything else. It's not good for ya brain, comprende? :P
Typed in a hurry... playing my LEGIT copy of Annet Again on a Sega CD
emulator so I can MAKE "ILLEGAL" SCREENSHOTS! Someone, please, call
the police! :P
-Chakan
SegaFans
http://www.classicgaming.com/saturn
Chakan
Nintendo's not involved here in this sistuation, anyway. It was a
joke, referring to many announcements by Nintendo that emulation
itself is WRONG and ILLEGAL. Which, as anyone knows, is incorrect.
This guy (Doane) obviously comes from the same school. That or he's
(like someone mentioned) just a sad, pathetic troll. I'm not really
sure, and I'm done with the matter as of this post. :)
-Chakan
SegaFans
http://www.classicgaming.com/saturn
RedFox
> >>>Well, if you're going to be playing Genesis games through an emulator
> >>>(and some of us have to, taking screens, etc. without owning a cool
> >>>gfx card), you might as well be doing it the most faitful/comfortable
> >>>way possible.
> >>
> >>There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for using an ILLEGAL Genesis emulator.
> >>What you are doing is CRIMINAL, it is EVIL, it is WRONG and you should
> >>FRY IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR for even considering it, you pirating son of
> >>a bitch!
> >>
> >>What in the hell is your excuse? HUH? What's your excuse, you thieving
> >>bastard? Come on, I've heard 'em all.
> >>
> >>Genesis TOO BIG? A Genesis 3 fits in the palm of your hand, so don't
> >>give me that. No PC is smaller that that.
> >>
> >>TV's are too huge? What a load of BS when LCD displays are so cheap.
> >>Not to mention you can get a NOMAD for $60 or so.
> >
> > I certainly hope this is a joke... I've got a Genny model 1/SCD model
> > 2 combo running right now with Sonic CD playing. All legit items I
> > paid for.
>
> You're taking more license than what you paid for.
> You paid for ONE COPY. Only one. Not two.
If he owns the console and owns the game then there's nothing wrong with it
Doane. Again.
-RedFox
Tim Miller
> >What in the hell is your excuse? HUH? What's your excuse, you thieving
> >bastard? Come on, I've heard 'em all.
> >
> >Genesis TOO BIG? A Genesis 3 fits in the palm of your hand, so don't
> >give me that. No PC is smaller that that.
> >
> >TV's are too huge? What a load of BS when LCD displays are so cheap.
> >Not to mention you can get a NOMAD for $60 or so.
>
> I certainly hope this is a joke...
Yes, Doanna is a joke.
> I've got a Genny model 1/SCD model
> 2 combo running right now with Sonic CD playing. All legit items I
> paid for. I enjoy playing my games on my television more, but I sure
> as fuck will use emulation when A) it's simpler than hooking one of my
> closeted consoles up to my already crowded television or B) I need to
> take screenshots.
>
And the best thing is that it's perfectly legal to do so. Doanna's
wrong when he says it isn't - he's been told this before but he still
prefers to make himself look a fool whenever anyone talks about
emulation.
Best thing to do is to stick him in a killfile.
Tim (tm)
Sweater Fish
>
>
> Chakan wrote:
> > On Sun, 20 Oct 2002 15:57:51 -0700, Charles Doane
> > <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Chakan wrote:
> >
> >
> > I certainly hope this is a joke... I've got a Genny model 1/SCD model
> > 2 combo running right now with Sonic CD playing. All legit items I
> > paid for.
>
> You're taking more license than what you paid for.
> You paid for ONE COPY. Only one. Not two.
>
Yep. But what're you gonna do about it, fatboy?
...sweater fish deluxe...
...word is bondage...
Sweater Fish
news:ap0bh5$q55kh$2...@ID-111763.news.dfncis.de...
> "Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote
>
> > You're taking more license than what you paid for.
> > You paid for ONE COPY. Only one. Not two.
>
> If he owns the console and owns the game then there's nothing wrong with
it
> Doane. Again.
>
No, it's still illegal. But don't worry, no one but Doane and a few other
losers on this NG really cares. Don't worry about justifying it, just enjoy
the games.
Sweater Fish
>
> There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for using an ILLEGAL Genesis emulator.
> What you are doing is CRIMINAL, it is EVIL, it is WRONG and you should
> FRY IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR for even considering it, you pirating son of
> a bitch!
>
> What in the hell is your excuse? HUH? What's your excuse, you thieving
> bastard? Come on, I've heard 'em all.
>
My excuse is that I like it. I enjoy playing video games even if sometimes
I can't always track down an actual copy in good condition for a reasonable
price. I'm a gamer not a materialist, afterall.
Maybe--just maybe--I also did it because it pisses you off.
Sweater Fish
sending Charles Doane into a fit of impotent rage by your post.
To claim your fabulous prize, just e-mail me your address and I'll get it
out to you as soon as possible.
To all the rest of you, don't worry, the contest continues. There can be as
many winners as there are zany fun-loving posts from Doane, so keep those
anger-baiting posts coming! And you could be the next to win a super-duper
surprise!
...sweater fish deluxe...
...word is bondage...
Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3DB334EF...@mindspring.com...
>
>
Raymond McKeithen II
"Tim Miller" <ne...@economic-truth.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d93278a.02102...@posting.google.com...
> > 2 combo running right now with Sonic CD playing. All legit items I
> > paid for. I enjoy playing my games on my television more, but I sure
> > as fuck will use emulation when A) it's simpler than hooking one of my
> > closeted consoles up to my already crowded television or B) I need to
> > take screenshots.
> >
> And the best thing is that it's perfectly legal to do so.
And how are the ROMs obtained? If it is in any way other than dumping one's
own carts, that certainly is NOT legal.
If such hardware has to bypass any sort of encryption, it certainly is NOT
legal according to law, in the US at least.
Charles Doane
Chakan wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Oct 2002 22:10:57 -0700, Charles Doane
> <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>>There's no excuse for emulation. If some pansy wants to play
>>a Genesis game, then he can get a Genesis and the game. If not,
>>then he does without. Stealing is not an acceptable alternative.
>
>
> Listen, YOU DENSE ASS F%^&WAD: I f%^&ing own every goddamn game I
> play. I paid for them, and I sure as f%^& will play them whatever way
> I please. If that means hacking my controllers, playing MY games on an
> emulator, or even copying the cd of a Japanese game and modifying it
> for use on my US Saturn, well, guess what? I'm protected to do so.
> It's my right.
They sure as HELL are NOT your games, you cheap son of a bitch.
You think your $40 got you a $4 MILLION game? Are you THAT STUPID?
Your lunch money doesn't buy you complete rights to that material.
You're not playing your games, you're playing pirated copies of
somebody elses games. You're a damnable thief and the law does
not protect thieves, not EVER.
> As long as I don't distribute or sell modified games (and possibly
> hardware), give someone roms of games I own, or play roms of games I
> don't own. This is, as far as I know, still the way that the law
> stands is interpreted in US courts. SO SHUT THE F%^& UP. Playing my -
> that I own - games in an unorthadox manner DOES NOT EQUATE THE ACT OF
> THEFT. Feel free to direct me to any court decisions or new laws that
> state otherwise. I'll gladly read them.
Sega vs. Maphia. http://mp3broadcast.com/iplaw/doc56.pdf
There has NEVER been a case where a copied game's use has gone to
a U.S. court of law and won.
> Emulation is not stealing. Sure, it provides an avenue for many to
> play games they don't own (NOT ME), but it does NOT make the act of
> using an emulator illegal. Knives provide a way for people to stab or
> mug and damage property, but owning and using one for legit puposes is
> not illegal. :P
There are no legit purposes where copied games are concerned. You're
a crook. You never copied those ROMS, you stole them from a pirate
website and participated in the illegal distribution of Sega's games.
> Stop reading Nintendo-published (or any other company's) press
> releases concerning emulation, unliscenced games and products, and
> anything else. It's not good for ya brain, comprende? :P
Stop going to pirate websites with your mouse on the DOWNLOAD icon,
you thieving bastard. Stop supporting piracy.
Unlike you, when I see a crook I report him. You ask him what he's
got for ya. You're despicable and no better than the thieves you
get your stolen goods from.
> Typed in a hurry... playing my LEGIT copy of Annet Again on a Sega CD
> emulator so I can MAKE "ILLEGAL" SCREENSHOTS! Someone, please, call
> the police! :P
You didn't pay for that artwork.
It ain't police that will be slamming your head into bars all
the way down the lockup when you get arrested, it'll be the
Federal Marshalls. If you're gonna break the law, you should
at least know who's gonna be frog-marching your ass to court.
Charles Doane
He DOES NOT OWN THE GAME.
On what planet does $40 buy a $4 MILLION game?
This is like saying that buying a concert ticket means you own the band.
You pinkos are all alike, you think that entertainment is a charity case
and that $40 is a bucketload of money that should be enough to strip any
developer of every right he ever had. Take your socialist crap and
stick it where the sun don't shine, you piracy sympathiser.
Charles Doane
Sweater Fish wrote:
> Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:3DB334EF...@mindspring.com...
>
>>There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for using an ILLEGAL Genesis emulator.
>>What you are doing is CRIMINAL, it is EVIL, it is WRONG and you should
>>FRY IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR for even considering it, you pirating son of
>>a bitch!
>>
>>What in the hell is your excuse? HUH? What's your excuse, you thieving
>>bastard? Come on, I've heard 'em all.
>>
>
>
> My excuse is that I like it.
Oh, okay. So if it feels good, do it.
Honest immorality is so refreshing.
> I enjoy playing video games even if sometimes I can't always
> track down an actual copy in good condition for a reasonable
> price. I'm a gamer not a materialist, afterall.
Gaming is materialism. It's a luxury pursuit. It's no hobby
for the food stamp crowd. I bought two games this weekend
(Starfox Adventures/Burnout 2) and the tab hit $113 with tax.
Yay for the debit card. This is NOT a cheap hobby. It never
was and it never will be.
I recently got into golf, which is supposedly a rich man's
game. I was warned about what it costs, and I LAUGHED at
it. It's nothing more than the cost of a console for a set
of clubs, and the greens fees are always less than what a
videogame costs. If you don't have the cash, then GET OUT.
Go get a real job.
> Maybe--just maybe--I also did it because it pisses you off.
You can't piss me off. You'd have to have my respect to be
able to do that.
Chakan
<opa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>Wow! Congrats Chakan! Youve just won the "poke the bear" contest by
>sending Charles Doane into a fit of impotent rage by your post.
>
>To claim your fabulous prize, just e-mail me your address and I'll get it
>out to you as soon as possible.
OH! OH! OH! I Hope it's ROMS of Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3! I haven't
bothered getting them yet, so that'd be kinda cool. It's just not cool
enough to play such a great game on my Genny!
-Chakan
SegaFans
http://www.classicgaming.com/saturn
Chakan
TOO?!?
-Chakan
SegaFans
http://www.classicgaming.com/saturn
ZoqFotPik
> And how are the ROMs obtained? If it is in any way other than dumping one's
> own carts, that certainly is NOT legal.
>
> If such hardware has to bypass any sort of encryption, it certainly is NOT
> legal according to law, in the US at least.
The law allows you to have copies of software that you own. The
language of the law also makes it clear that these copies do not need
to be made from your originals, and that you do not need to be the one
who makes the copies. As for encryption, there are no cartridge based
systems I am aware of that used it, except perhaps for the Neo Geo.
Sweater Fish
>
> Sweater Fish wrote:
> > Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > news:3DB334EF...@mindspring.com...
> >
> >>There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for using an ILLEGAL Genesis emulator.
> >>What you are doing is CRIMINAL, it is EVIL, it is WRONG and you should
> >>FRY IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR for even considering it, you pirating son of
> >>a bitch!
> >>
> >>What in the hell is your excuse? HUH? What's your excuse, you thieving
> >>bastard? Come on, I've heard 'em all.
> >>
> > My excuse is that I like it.
>
> Oh, okay. So if it feels good, do it.
> Honest immorality is so refreshing.
>
If it's not hurting people, morality doesn't apply.
> > I enjoy playing video games even if sometimes I can't always
> > track down an actual copy in good condition for a reasonable
> > price. I'm a gamer not a materialist, afterall.
>
> Gaming is materialism. It's a luxury pursuit. It's no hobby
> for the food stamp crowd. I bought two games this weekend
> (Starfox Adventures/Burnout 2) and the tab hit $113 with tax.
> Yay for the debit card. This is NOT a cheap hobby. It never
> was and it never will be.
>
It is if you just download games for free.
> I recently got into golf, which is supposedly a rich man's
> game. I was warned about what it costs, and I LAUGHED at
> it. It's nothing more than the cost of a console for a set
> of clubs, and the greens fees are always less than what a
> videogame costs. If you don't have the cash, then GET OUT.
> Go get a real job.
>
I've got a real job and I buy as many games as I can afford after rent,
bills, food, tuition and books are paid for). When I run out of money, I
sometimes pirate games if I want to play them. I guess I've found a way to
not GET OUT even though I don't have money. I must be some kind of genius
or sumthin, huh? Look at me having my cake and eating it, too. Want some
cake, Doane? I bet you do.
> > Maybe--just maybe--I also did it because it pisses you off.
>
> You can't piss me off. You'd have to have my respect to be
> able to do that.
>
Subconsciously you respect me because you know that I'm making something of
my life while you're sitting in little house getting fatter and fatter and
wasting away your life on Usenet (what's your post-count now, Doane?) and
dreaming about being a big man with a gun, while you run through a cycle of
denial regarding your frustrated sexual desires.
Ted
ZoqFotPik wrote:
>
snip
> As for encryption, there are no cartridge based
> systems I am aware of that used it, except perhaps for the Neo Geo.
The Jag was encrypted. Doesn't matter now since Hasbro released the
rights and people are allowed to overcome the encryption.
Mark Bradshaw
wrote:
>"Raymond McKeithen II" <rfmc...@suchiepaijas.net> wrote in message news:<DiQs9.992$vZ6.8...@newshog.newsread.com>...
>
>> And how are the ROMs obtained? If it is in any way other than dumping one's
>> own carts, that certainly is NOT legal.
>>
>> If such hardware has to bypass any sort of encryption, it certainly is NOT
>> legal according to law, in the US at least.
>
>
> As for encryption, there are no cartridge based
>systems I am aware of that used it, except perhaps for the Neo Geo.
7800 had an *insane* encryption setup. Took the community years to
break thier code.
Also, It might be argued that the Genny's header protection could be
an encryption of sorts. Depends on the definition of the word.
Chakan
The Genesis header protection was built in to later model G/MD's
(model 2's and up), not in the original Genesis or into the carts
themselves. So it doesn't apply here.
-Chakan
SegaFans
http://www.classicgaming.com/saturn
Verb
> >>Not to mention you can get a NOMAD for $60 or so.
>
>
> I can do it used. The Game Crazy store in Chandler has about 4 of 'em.
> You're not even trying. You want me to do your footwork? You want
> 'brand new'? Typical pirate, making excuses and crying about making
> any effort. If it doesn't land in your lap, it's impossible; that's
> the way pirates think.
Okay. If one is to buy a USED Nomad, they aren't putting any money into the
manufacturer's
hands, or the original distributor's hands, or the game developers' hands.
How is this good for gaming?
Lets stick with the Genesis (not a new, viable, still on the market platform
like PS2).
The way I see it(may not be the way you see it Charles), if we have to stick
to the original platform,
anyone with a lick of sense in the States (or Canada, where I am) can buy
themselves a used Genesis
for a decent price - like under $15. Probably a used Game Gear as well.
Dime-a-dozen both.
The games are a different matter. If a game is very rare, the odds of the
average person being able to
find it for a reasonable price (for a 10 year old system that has been
unsupported for over 5 years)
are pretty damn well impossible. Unless I stumble upon some unsuspecting
flea market proprietor.
Now supposed someone has developed the techology to emulate this machine
(obsolete, unsupported,
no longer generatinig ANY revenue for the companies who built it or made
software & accessories
for it) on a PC and someone else developed the technology to rip copies of
the games and make them
into files accessible on a PC. We would be idiots to not use this technology
to allow us to play the games
heretofore not available to us.
You are confusing the people who are now using a technology developed by
pirates back when the
Genesis was a viable system for the ones who actually developed it. Now that
the Genesis is dead,
using an emulator on a PC with a rom downloaded from the internet isn't
hurting anyone. The collectors
will still be able to demand their high prices for rare artifacts because
there are still many who want to
own the actual hardware. They probably have every game that they own, and
then some, on their PC
as well and have a couple emulators to play them. Even if they don't, it's
probably not because of some
moral reason, but just that they hate playing games on their PC's.
What about those of us that have the hardware (I have a genesis, 2 CDX's, 3
Game Gears, a Saturn, a
Dreamcast and a Master Gear (pirate hardware!!) to play Master System games)
and a bunch of
original games (12 for Genesis, 4 for Sega CD, 15 forGame Gear, 21 for
Saturn, 25 for Dreamcast, 4
for Master System - all originals) but still have roms of all the cartridge
games that we own. What if we
want to play our Genesis games on the road but don't have a Nomad (I've only
seen 1 around where I
live in the last 3 years - they wouldn't sell it to me - I offered $80 for
it). What if we get them on Rom and
play them on our Palm Pilots or iPaqs? Now we're pirates too??
If you were to come across a copy of Phantasy Star for SMS at a flea market
market at $2.50
would you inform the person selling the game that it's worth a hell of a lot
more than they're asking?
Or would you purchase it and sell it on eBay right away for a nice healthy
profit?
Why don;t you just save your anti-piracy shit for people who are pirating on
PSX, PS2, GC and XBox.
They are the ones that are hurting the industry. Those that are emaulating
dead consoles are keeping the
classic games alive.
Verb
>
>
> Chakan wrote:
> > emulator, or even copying the cd of a Japanese game and modifying it
> > for use on my US Saturn, well, guess what? I'm protected to do so.
> > It's my right.
>
> They sure as HELL are NOT your games, you cheap son of a bitch.
> You think your $40 got you a $4 MILLION game? Are you THAT STUPID?
> Your lunch money doesn't buy you complete rights to that material.
>
> You're not playing your games, you're playing pirated copies of
> somebody elses games. You're a damnable thief and the law does
> not protect thieves, not EVER.
He's talking about a copy of a Japanese game HE BOUGHT!! not borrowed from
someone else!!
Fuck are you ever a moron. Why don't you finish your legal degree and go
down to the TV station
and make one of those Idiotic commercials.
"Have you ever seen someone playing a copy of a game they actually bought.
Well according to me, and my
pals at Nintendo, this may be against everything we stand for. Call us and
we'll get those buggers.
I may be a Fuckwad, but I'm YOUR Fuckwad. Call 1-888-IMADINK for highly
overpaid legal advice."
Verb
> Sweater Fish wrote:
> > price. I'm a gamer not a materialist, afterall.
>
> Gaming is materialism. It's a luxury pursuit. It's no hobby
> for the food stamp crowd. I bought two games this weekend
> (Starfox Adventures/Burnout 2) and the tab hit $113 with tax.
> Yay for the debit card. This is NOT a cheap hobby. It never
> was and it never will be.
Now I understand!! Doane is upset because he spends whatever they ask for
the games he wants
to complete his "collection" and he thinks that emulation somehow devalues
what he has purchased
making him lose some of the money he seems to have a ton of. Not likely.
Emulation of dead consoles
doesn't devalue the actual carts because, and this is something you just
don't seem to understand,
the people who are downloading and emulating are not the same ones who would
actually go out and
search for the games and buy them and then resell them later at a profit
(hopefully). Isn't that what this
is all about, Doane? You don't want to lose your investment.
Sean Connery
Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Chakan wrote:
>> Well, if you're going to be playing Genesis games through an emulator
>> (and some of us have to, taking screens, etc. without owning a cool
>> gfx card), you might as well be doing it the most faitful/comfortable
>> way possible.
>
>There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for using an ILLEGAL Genesis emulator.
>What you are doing is CRIMINAL, it is EVIL, it is WRONG and you should
>FRY IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR for even considering it, you pirating son of
>a bitch!
You're such a one-trick pony. Do you do parties?
--
0--------------------------------------------------------------------0
| http://www.unrealtournament2003.com | Have You Played Atari Today? |
0--------------------------------------------------------------------0
Sean Connery
Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> When's the last time you even played a PC game?
>
>Hexen, 1996. I bought the PC version and the Saturn version, and the
>Saturn version was leagues better than the PC version. For starters,
>the Saturn version actually WORKED. The PC version took a week of
>tweaking and then I still wasn't satisfied that it was as good as it
>could be.
So what's with all the MS flight simulator talk. Oh right, those aren't
games. LOL.
>I hate PC games. They're nothing more than a damned pissing contest.
>Yeah, I'm running an AMD Athlon2000+.
>Is that supposed to IMPRESS anybody?
>If you're impressed by that, seek help, please. It's a piece of
>crap and I only grabbed it because I really liked the demo machine.
>It ain't a powerhouse, and it's way more than I think I need.
Your prebuilt Fry's rig really doesn't impress anyone at all, don't worry.
And we allready established that you didn't need to buy it.
>It's bad enough that console gamers have pissing contests.
>PC gamers go nuts over stupid CARDS in their PC's. They'll freak
>over whether a game does 90 FPS or 180 FPS, as if it matters.
>They're more worried about the specs than they are about the games.
>They're insane, they're unreasonable, and they're morons.
A 2x increase in FPS is a big deal. A 2% increase (which is often
debated) is not.
>If I talk about a game, I don't want to hear about how his machine
>kicks my machine's ass. PC gaming is a pissing contest.
>Count me out.
If we call RGVS a "PC game" will you go away?
Sean Connery
Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>There's no excuse for emulation. If some pansy wants to play
>a Genesis game, then he can get a Genesis and the game. If not,
>then he does without. Stealing is not an acceptable alternative.
Using games you own in another way is not stealing. Stealing is stealing.
Emulation of your own systems and games on another platform is fair use.
Charles Doane
Verb wrote:
>>>>TV's are too huge? What a load of BS when LCD displays are so cheap.
>>>>Not to mention you can get a NOMAD for $60 or so.
>>>
>>>Find me a brand new Nomad for $60.
>>
>>I can do it used. The Game Crazy store in Chandler has about 4 of 'em.
>>You're not even trying. You want me to do your footwork? You want
>>'brand new'? Typical pirate, making excuses and crying about making
>>any effort. If it doesn't land in your lap, it's impossible; that's
>>the way pirates think.
>
>
> Okay. If one is to buy a USED Nomad, they aren't putting any money into the
> manufacturer's
> hands, or the original distributor's hands, or the game developers' hands.
> How is this good for gaming?
It puts money in a GAMER'S hands. If the GAMER doesn't have money, ain't
nobody else in the videogame food chain getting any money either. It's a
simple concept called cash flow.
> Lets stick with the Genesis (not a new, viable, still on the market platform
> like PS2).
>
> The way I see it(may not be the way you see it Charles), if we have to stick
> to the original platform,
> anyone with a lick of sense in the States (or Canada, where I am) can buy
> themselves a used Genesis
> for a decent price - like under $15. Probably a used Game Gear as well.
> Dime-a-dozen both.
>
> The games are a different matter. If a game is very rare, the odds of the
> average person being able to
> find it for a reasonable price (for a 10 year old system that has been
> unsupported for over 5 years)
> are pretty damn well impossible. Unless I stumble upon some unsuspecting
> flea market proprietor.
Who says what's "reasonable"? *YOU*? You're in no position to dictate a
price to a seller, much less justify stealing if you don't get the price
*you* call "reasonable".
> Now supposed someone has developed the techology to emulate this machine
> (obsolete, unsupported,
> no longer generatinig ANY revenue for the companies who built it or made
> software & accessories
> for it) on a PC and someone else developed the technology to rip copies of
> the games and make them
> into files accessible on a PC. We would be idiots to not use this technology
> to allow us to play the games
> heretofore not available to us.
No, what you'd be is honest. You have no need to play those games as
they are luxury items.
The Sega Genesis games are still generating revenue for Sega. Most recently
Sega has announced a Sonic compilation coming for the Gamecube, which is
basically going to be like Sonic Jam on the DC was and a collection of the
famous Genesis Sonic titles. They've also re-released Columns on the GBA
and Sega Smash Pack on the PC. So, you are stealing currently viable games.
> You are confusing the people who are now using a technology developed by
> pirates back when the
> Genesis was a viable system for the ones who actually developed it. Now that
> the Genesis is dead,
> using an emulator on a PC with a rom downloaded from the internet isn't
> hurting anyone.
Yes, it is. It's KILLING the secondary game market, choking off much needed
cash flow for industry growth and devaluing game rereleases for the developer.
You have NO RIGHT to tell Sega that they've made every dime that they deserve
to off of Sonic the Hedgehog (or any other game for that matter) and then
proceed to help yourself to whatever you can steal.
> The collectors
> will still be able to demand their high prices for rare artifacts because
> there are still many who want to
> own the actual hardware. They probably have every game that they own, and
> then some, on their PC
> as well and have a couple emulators to play them. Even if they don't, it's
> probably not because of some
> moral reason, but just that they hate playing games on their PC's.
What a crock. If they have "and then some", then they have games that they
don't own. That makes them THIEVES.
> What about those of us that have the hardware (I have a genesis, 2 CDX's, 3
> Game Gears, a Saturn, a
> Dreamcast and a Master Gear (pirate hardware!!) to play Master System games)
> and a bunch of
> original games (12 for Genesis, 4 for Sega CD, 15 forGame Gear, 21 for
> Saturn, 25 for Dreamcast, 4
> for Master System - all originals) but still have roms of all the cartridge
> games that we own.
Then you have 142 copies and you've only paid for 71. That's theft,
and egregious theft at that.
> What if we
> want to play our Genesis games on the road but don't have a Nomad (I've only
> seen 1 around where I
> live in the last 3 years - they wouldn't sell it to me - I offered $80 for
> it). What if we get them on Rom and
> play them on our Palm Pilots or iPaqs? Now we're pirates too??
Your wants are no excuse. I don't care what you want to do. Your wants do
not excuse criminal behavior. I want to be a millionaire. That would not
excuse me from the consequences of trying to steal money.
Besides, there are thousands of games for palmtop computers. Try some of
THOSE. What kind of a fool buys a new system and then doesn't even use it
for new games?
> If you were to come across a copy of Phantasy Star for SMS at a flea market
> market at $2.50
> would you inform the person selling the game that it's worth a hell of a lot
> more than they're asking?
> Or would you purchase it and sell it on eBay right away for a nice healthy
> profit?
I have never done business on eBay nor would I. That's a PC-based company
and I know for a fact that pirates use PC's. I refuse to deal with pirates.
I wouldn't even buy the game, as I have no SMS and it won't work on my GG.
> Why don;t you just save your anti-piracy s%^& for people who are pirating on
> PSX, PS2, GC and XBox.
Nobody is pirating on GC. All pirates are the same. It makes no difference
if the system is 2 years old or 20 years old, it's still just as wrong.
> They are the ones that are hurting the industry. Those that are emaulating
> dead consoles are keeping the
> classic games alive.
No, what they're doing is just an excuse to steal. The job of keeping
the classics going fall to their OWNERS, the developer of the game.
They're the ones with the original code and specs. Not some snot-nosed
punk downloading from a warez site.
Charles Doane
Verb wrote:
> "Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:3DB3F2A...@mindspring.com...
>
>>Sweater Fish wrote:
>>
>>>price. I'm a gamer not a materialist, afterall.
>>
>>Gaming is materialism. It's a luxury pursuit. It's no hobby
>>for the food stamp crowd. I bought two games this weekend
>>(Starfox Adventures/Burnout 2) and the tab hit $113 with tax.
>>Yay for the debit card. This is NOT a cheap hobby. It never
>>was and it never will be.
>
>
> Now I understand!! Doane is upset because he spends whatever they ask for
> the games he wants
> to complete his "collection" and he thinks that emulation somehow devalues
> what he has purchased
> making him lose some of the money he seems to have a ton of. Not likely.
No, you don't understand.
Have you seen Capcom Generations in the USA for the Sega Saturn?
No, you didn't. Why not? Because emulation drove the market so
far south that Capcom of America didn't see any profit potential.
That's one of the greatest compilations ever, and it got canned
no thanks to bastards abusing emulation.
How about the Sega Ages series? Did we see that on the Saturn?
Only a teensy bit of it (three games) made by Working Designs.
Sega didn't even bring it over themselves. Why not? Because
emulation led Sega of America to believe that anyone who wanted
those games had already stolen them long ago.
We're LOSING GAMES here no thanks to the piracy emulation scene.
> Emulation of dead consoles
> doesn't devalue the actual carts because, and this is something you just
> don't seem to understand,
> the people who are downloading and emulating are not the same ones who would
> actually go out and
> search for the games and buy them and then resell them later at a profit
> (hopefully). Isn't that what this
> is all about, Doane? You don't want to lose your investment.
You could not be more wrong.
First of all, I consider it an entertainment expense, a luxury
item, and not an investment in any way.
Secondly, I want more retro compilations professionally made
(for example, the Atari Anniversary Edition for Dreamcast)
which have more than just the games. They have histories,
pictures, interviews and trivia for REAL gamers. I enjoy
the interviews with people like Ed Logg, Eugene Jarvis,
Dave Theurer and Nolan Bushnell. I relished the commercials
and Sonic history presented in Sonic Jam on the Saturn.
That's the kind of "preservation" I'm talking about, and that
is exactly what these stupid greedy bastards are KILLING every
time they download another ROM.
Charles Doane
Sean Connery wrote:
> In article <3DB38C61...@mindspring.com>,
> Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>>There's no excuse for emulation. If some pansy wants to play
>>a Genesis game, then he can get a Genesis and the game. If not,
>>then he does without. Stealing is not an acceptable alternative.
>
>
> Using games you own in another way is not stealing.
You don't own them. Your $40 does not make you the owner of a
$4 Million game. All that buys you is a copy. If you want two
copies, then bust out $80.
> Stealing is stealing.
Since you don't own the game, and you're taking an additional
copy, then you happen to be stealing.
> Emulation of your own systems and games on another platform is fair use.
No, it's not. Fair use never allows the copying of the sum total of a
work, and what little copying it allows is never for entertainment.
Tim Miller
>
> And how are the ROMs obtained? If it is in any way other than dumping one's
> own carts, that certainly is NOT legal.
>
Actually, it is. Provided the code is exactly the same as in the
orginal cartridge, it doesn't matter if it was dumped, downloaded,
read in by ticker tape or hand coded with switches.
> If such hardware has to bypass any sort of encryption, it certainly is NOT
> legal according to law, in the US at least.
Good job this isn't a US newsgroup then.
Tim (tm)
Matt Fuerst
guy-jin
> Chakan wrote:
> > Well, if you're going to be playing Genesis games through an emulator
> > (and some of us have to, taking screens, etc. without owning a cool
> > gfx card), you might as well be doing it the most faitful/comfortable
> > way possible.
>
> There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for using an ILLEGAL Genesis emulator.
You are insane. Why would Sega, much less you, care that people are
emulating games that are no longer being sold?
ZoqFotPik
> He DOES NOT OWN THE GAME.
> On what planet does $40 buy a $4 MILLION game?
On the same planet where $15 buys you a CD that you can play on
anything from a stereo to a PSX, or copy to a tape or a hard drive for
your own use. On the same planet where $20 buys you a DVD of a
multi-million dollar blockbuster that you can watch on a DVD player or
play from a DVD-ROM on your PC. Games are no different.
Sean Connery
Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Besides, there are thousands of games for palmtop computers. Try some of
>THOSE. What kind of a fool buys a new system and then doesn't even use it
>for new games?
People who buy machines at Fry's?
Sean Connery
Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> Using games you own in another way is not stealing.
>
>You don't own them. Your $40 does not make you the owner of a
>$4 Million game. All that buys you is a copy. If you want two
>copies, then bust out $80.
If it's in my house I own it. Creation of alternate copies for personal
use is not a problem.
> > Stealing is stealing.
>
>Since you don't own the game, and you're taking an additional
>copy, then you happen to be stealing.
You can call it stealing all you want. I call it fair use, because that
is what it is.
>> Emulation of your own systems and games on another platform is fair use.
>
>No, it's not. Fair use never allows the copying of the sum total of a
>work, and what little copying it allows is never for entertainment.
I use copies of pricey audio CDs in my car. That is copying the sum total
(ok, it's not even doing that, it's not copying the packaging) and it is
for entertainment.
Charles Doane
The main reason is that I want them to be sold again. Many are.
Sonic the Hedgehog has been on the Genesis, the Game Gear, the
Saturn, the Dreamcast, and it's coming to the Gamecube. That's
the way games ought to be, with classics being preserved and
sold by their rightful owners. Not stolen by pirates destroying
the nascent retro market.
Charles Doane
ZoqFotPik wrote:
> Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<3DB3EEEE...@mindspring.com>...
>
>
>>He DOES NOT OWN THE GAME.
>>On what planet does $40 buy a $4 MILLION game?
>
>
> On the same planet where $15 buys you a CD that you can play on
> anything from a stereo to a PSX, or copy to a tape or a hard drive for
> your own use.
That's a completely different law called the Audio Home Recording Act
under USC Title 17 Chapter 10, specifically subpart 1008.
I've told you this a hundred times and you still can't get it.
GAMES ARE NOT UNDER THE SAME LAW AS MUSIC.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1008.html
> On the same planet where $20 buys you a DVD of a
> multi-million dollar blockbuster that you can watch on a DVD player or
> play from a DVD-ROM on your PC. Games are no different.
Games are multimedia entertainment just like those DVD movies.
I see you've finally come around. BTW, you can't legally copy
those movies. You can't legally copy the games either and for
the exact same reasons.
Charles Doane
Sean Connery wrote:
> In article <3DB53E40...@mindspring.com>,
> Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>Using games you own in another way is not stealing.
>>
>>You don't own them. Your $40 does not make you the owner of a
>>$4 Million game. All that buys you is a copy. If you want two
>>copies, then bust out $80.
>
>
> If it's in my house I own it. Creation of alternate copies for personal
> use is not a problem.
Sorry, but your home is not a haven for lawless anarchy. This
is a nation of laws, and many of them define what you can do
with your house.
>>> Stealing is stealing.
>>
>>Since you don't own the game, and you're taking an additional
>>copy, then you happen to be stealing.
>
>
> You can call it stealing all you want. I call it fair use, because that
> is what it is.
No, that's not what it is.
Fair use is defined as being for purposes such as criticism, comment,
news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use),
scholarship, or research. It does not include getting jollies.
>>>Emulation of your own systems and games on another platform is fair use.
>>
>>No, it's not. Fair use never allows the copying of the sum total of a
>>work, and what little copying it allows is never for entertainment.
>
>
> I use copies of pricey audio CDs in my car. That is copying the sum total
> (ok, it's not even doing that, it's not copying the packaging) and it is
> for entertainment.
Different law. There's no valid comparison between audio CD's and any
multimedia entertainment because of the Audio Home Recording Act.
Sean Connery
Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>Using games you own in another way is not stealing.
>>>
>>>You don't own them. Your $40 does not make you the owner of a
>>>$4 Million game. All that buys you is a copy. If you want two
>>>copies, then bust out $80.
>>
>> If it's in my house I own it. Creation of alternate copies for personal
>> use is not a problem.
>
>Sorry, but your home is not a haven for lawless anarchy. This
>is a nation of laws, and many of them define what you can do
>with your house.
And, WU-WHAH, blahblahblah. You're going to have to agree to disagree
with me (and most others here).
>>>> Stealing is stealing.
>>>
>>>Since you don't own the game, and you're taking an additional
>>>copy, then you happen to be stealing.
>>
>> You can call it stealing all you want. I call it fair use, because that
>> is what it is.
>
>No, that's not what it is.
I say it is.
>Fair use is defined as being for purposes such as criticism, comment,
>news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use),
>scholarship, or research. It does not include getting jollies.
>
>>>>Emulation of your own systems and games on another platform is fair use.
>>>
>>>No, it's not. Fair use never allows the copying of the sum total of a
>>>work, and what little copying it allows is never for entertainment.
>>
>> I use copies of pricey audio CDs in my car. That is copying the sum total
>> (ok, it's not even doing that, it's not copying the packaging) and it is
>> for entertainment.
>
>Different law. There's no valid comparison between audio CD's and any
>multimedia entertainment because of the Audio Home Recording Act.
When it comes to laws not covered by biblical texts...in my house, I make
the rules. I say that duping a CD onto CD or tape for personal use in my
car is fair use. I also say that using my PSX or SegaCDs on my PC with an
emulator is fair use. Or that emulating all my classic games that I own
in other formats on other platforms is fair use (and it's needed with such
fragile media as my Coleco ADAM Digital Data Packs). I don't belive there
is a point blank USA law that says otherwise. And if there is? Oh well.
I don't have a problem morally using what I've *paid for* in ways I *see
fit* (from games to out of region DVDs). Legality does not equal
morality. That's that, and I'm done with this subject in this thread (but
I'm sure it will come up again as you're a harpy).
Chakan
>
> > On the same planet where $20 buys you a DVD of a
>> multi-million dollar blockbuster that you can watch on a DVD player or
>> play from a DVD-ROM on your PC. Games are no different.
>
>Games are multimedia entertainment just like those DVD movies.
>I see you've finally come around. BTW, you can't legally copy
>those movies. You can't legally copy the games either and for
>the exact same reasons.
But Doanf! You told me EMULATION itself was illegal! If you are here
saying that playing my DVD movies on a PC DVD-ROM drive, a DVD
stand-alone player, or a PS2 is legal, then why isn't playing my
original Sega CD games on an emulator for the PC?
Dumbass.
-Chakan
SegaFans
http://www.classicgaming.com/saturn
Charles Doane
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the DeCSS precedent. It is *not*
legal for you to play DVD's on anything but a licensed player.
http://www.lemuria.org/decss/hal2001.html
If your PC DVD-ROM drive doesn't have a licensed driver under the
DVD consortium's Digital Millenium Copyright Act enforceable rights,
then you are playing DVD's illegally.
The same goes for unlicensed video game players. If they're made
under license by the console manufacturer, then and only then are
they even remotely legal. Otherwise they violate the DMCA as well
as other copyright laws.
Charles Doane
Sean Connery wrote:
> In article <3DB5EBBD...@mindspring.com>,
> Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>>>Using games you own in another way is not stealing.
>>>>
>>>>You don't own them. Your $40 does not make you the owner of a
>>>>$4 Million game. All that buys you is a copy. If you want two
>>>>copies, then bust out $80.
>>>
>>>If it's in my house I own it. Creation of alternate copies for personal
>>>use is not a problem.
>>
>>Sorry, but your home is not a haven for lawless anarchy. This
>>is a nation of laws, and many of them define what you can do
>>with your house.
> And, WU-WHAH, blahblahblah. You're going to have to agree to disagree
> with me (and most others here).
No, I'm not. If you're running a whorehouse, a drug lab or an
opium den out of your house then the law applies, and it applies
to possession of stolen property as well even if it's in your
house.
>>>>>Stealing is stealing.
>>>>
>>>>Since you don't own the game, and you're taking an additional
>>>>copy, then you happen to be stealing.
>>>
>>>You can call it stealing all you want. I call it fair use, because that
>>>is what it is.
>>
>>No, that's not what it is.
> I say it is.
There's nothing fair about paying for one copy and taking two.
<snip>
>>Different law. There's no valid comparison between audio CD's and any
>>multimedia entertainment because of the Audio Home Recording Act.
>
>
> When it comes to laws not covered by biblical texts...in my house, I make
> the rules. I say that duping a CD onto CD or tape for personal use in my
> car is fair use.
If it were "fair use", then there wouldn't *be* an Audio Home Recording
Act. The AHRA exists because that was a prosecutable act. The right
was given in trade for the right to demand that all digital audio
recording equipment incorporate the Serial Copy Management System.
The SCMS was supposed to prevent any copies being made of copies.
> I also say that using my PSX or SegaCDs on my PC with an emulator is
> fair use.
It creates a derivative work in contravention of copyright law.
Creating derivative works is not "fair use" unless they are found to be
"transformative" in a court.
> Or that emulating all my classic games that I own
> in other formats on other platforms is fair use (and it's needed with such
> fragile media as my Coleco ADAM Digital Data Packs). I don't belive there
> is a point blank USA law that says otherwise. And if there is? Oh well.
> I don't have a problem morally using what I've *paid for* in ways I *see
> fit* (from games to out of region DVDs). Legality does not equal
> morality. That's that, and I'm done with this subject in this thread (but
> I'm sure it will come up again as you're a harpy).
You don't own those games. The pittance you paid does not grant
you ownership of the intellectual property in any way. If you
think the media is fragile, then just don't buy it.
ZoqFotPik
> The same goes for unlicensed video game players. If they're made
> under license by the console manufacturer, then and only then are
> they even remotely legal.
No, that is absolutely false. Emulators do not need to be licensed to
be legal. Period.
> Otherwise they violate the DMCA as well as other copyright laws.
This is quite ironic coming from you, as you freely violate "the DCMA
as well as other copyright laws" to play your import games...
Sweater Fish
>
> Sean Connery wrote:
> > In article <3DB5EBBD...@mindspring.com>,
> > Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>>>Using games you own in another way is not stealing.
> >>>>
> >>>>You don't own them. Your $40 does not make you the owner of a
> >>>>$4 Million game. All that buys you is a copy. If you want two
> >>>>copies, then bust out $80.
> >>>
> >>>If it's in my house I own it. Creation of alternate copies for
personal
> >>>use is not a problem.
> >>
> >>Sorry, but your home is not a haven for lawless anarchy. This
> >>is a nation of laws, and many of them define what you can do
> >>with your house.
>
> > And, WU-WHAH, blahblahblah. You're going to have to agree to disagree
> > with me (and most others here).
>
> No, I'm not. If you're running a whorehouse, a drug lab or an
> opium den out of your house then the law applies, and it applies
> to possession of stolen property as well even if it's in your
> house.
>
Maybe, but there's nothing you can do about it...well, nothing except
sitting there in your underwear, popping ho-hos and steaming about it.
> >>>>>Stealing is stealing.
> >>>>
> >>>>Since you don't own the game, and you're taking an additional
> >>>>copy, then you happen to be stealing.
> >>>
> >>>You can call it stealing all you want. I call it fair use, because
that
> >>>is what it is.
> >>
> >>No, that's not what it is.
>
> > I say it is.
>
> There's nothing fair about paying for one copy and taking two.
>
> <snip>
>
Aw, poor Doane doesn't think it's fair. Tough shit for you, Charles!
> >>Different law. There's no valid comparison between audio CD's and any
> >>multimedia entertainment because of the Audio Home Recording Act.
> >
> >
> > When it comes to laws not covered by biblical texts...in my house, I
make
> > the rules. I say that duping a CD onto CD or tape for personal use in
my
> > car is fair use.
>
> If it were "fair use", then there wouldn't *be* an Audio Home Recording
> Act. The AHRA exists because that was a prosecutable act. The right
> was given in trade for the right to demand that all digital audio
> recording equipment incorporate the Serial Copy Management System.
> The SCMS was supposed to prevent any copies being made of copies.
>
Blah, blah, blah...what does that have to do with anything. It's not
stopping me from playing ROMs. Hell, it's not even preventing me from
making copies of copies.
> > I also say that using my PSX or SegaCDs on my PC with an emulator is
> > fair use.
>
> It creates a derivative work in contravention of copyright law.
> Creating derivative works is not "fair use" unless they are found to be
> "transformative" in a court.
>
It's fair by my decision, so I'm gonna keep using them. Fair. Use.
> > Or that emulating all my classic games that I own
> > in other formats on other platforms is fair use (and it's needed with
such
> > fragile media as my Coleco ADAM Digital Data Packs). I don't belive
there
> > is a point blank USA law that says otherwise. And if there is? Oh
well.
> > I don't have a problem morally using what I've *paid for* in ways I *see
> > fit* (from games to out of region DVDs). Legality does not equal
> > morality. That's that, and I'm done with this subject in this thread
(but
> > I'm sure it will come up again as you're a harpy).
>
> You don't own those games. The pittance you paid does not grant
> you ownership of the intellectual property in any way. If you
> think the media is fragile, then just don't buy it.
>
I may not own them, but I can act like I do by copying them (or downloading
copies) and playing them wherever I want. Jeez, if I wanted to I could even
distribute those copies. So, it would appear that, who actually owns the
game has very little impact on my possible actions.
...sweater fish deluxe...
...word is bondage...
Chakan
That's wrong!!!!
-Chakan
SegaFans
http://www.classicgaming.com/saturn
Charles Doane
ZoqFotPik wrote:
> Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<3DB6691B...@mindspring.com>...
>
>
>>The same goes for unlicensed video game players. If they're made
>>under license by the console manufacturer, then and only then are
>>they even remotely legal.
>
>
> No, that is absolutely false. Emulators do not need to be licensed to
> be legal. Period.
They do if they contain so much as one byte of copyrighted code.
>>Otherwise they violate the DMCA as well as other copyright laws.
>
>
> This is quite ironic coming from you, as you freely violate "the DCMA
> as well as other copyright laws" to play your import games...
I'm not violating any copyright laws because the system is technically
an import too. So, I'll be playing Ikaruga and you'll be screaming
that I'm a hypocrite. Wrong. It's not an illegitimate copy.
Chakan
>> No, that is absolutely false. Emulators do not need to be licensed to
>> be legal. Period.
>
HEY DUMBASS. You think that if they were REALLY ILLEGAL (as you keep
fucking stating, even though you've been told otherwise), don't you
think Atari, Nintendo, Sony, Sega, and other console manufacturers
would be able to simply send a cease and desist, followed by whatever
legal action if necessary; thus stopping the progress and spread of
each emulator?
But guess what?!? Out here in the real world, Charles, EMULATION IS
LEGAL. SO JUST FUCKING DEAL WITH IT, BITCH.
-Chakan
SegaFans
http://www.classicgaming.com/saturn
snoob schreef
>
>
> Verb wrote:
> >
> > Okay. If one is to buy a USED Nomad, they aren't putting any money into
the
> > manufacturer's
> > hands, or the original distributor's hands, or the game developers'
hands.
> > How is this good for gaming?
>
> It puts money in a GAMER'S hands. If the GAMER doesn't have money, ain't
> nobody else in the videogame food chain getting any money either. It's a
> simple concept called cash flow.
Um, the person buying the nomad is also a gamer. The could go and spend that
mone on a new game.
Fuck dude are you really serious about all this anti PC shit? I thought you
were just trying to be funny or cause a stir or something. Your points are
just plain stupidity and all you're doing it making it look like you dont
know how to use a PC.
Charles Doane
Chakan wrote:
>>>No, that is absolutely false. Emulators do not need to be licensed to
>>>be legal. Period.
>>
>>They do if they BLAH BLAH BLAH--
>
>
> HEY DUMBASS.
You talk to yourself often?
> You think that if they were REALLY ILLEGAL (as you keep
> f%^&ing stating, even though you've been told otherwise), don't you
> think Atari, Nintendo, Sony, Sega, and other console manufacturers
> would be able to simply send a cease and desist, followed by whatever
> legal action if necessary; thus stopping the progress and spread of
> each emulator?
They have; Nintendo is especially famous for it. That's why you
keep seeing emulation websites getting shut down.
If emulators were legal, then you would be able to get them through
retail channels, but you CAN'T do that with the exception of licensed
ones.
Maybe if you had a brain in your head you'd realize that the only
way you can even get these rotten emulators is via shady websites
and disreputable FTP sites.
Your point is akin to saying 'See that crackhouse! See! It's
not shut down yet so that proves that cocaine has been legalized!'
Then when it gets shut down you'll say 'See, there's another one!
See! It's still legal!'
In other words, DUMBASS, just because crooks are setting up their
criminal enterprises on the web does not make them legal. The
whole REASON that they do it is to avoid prosecution. Any retail
store selling emulators and romz would be treated just as you
suggest these illegal web sites might be.
Gee, something illegal on the 'net. Who'd have thunk it?
> But guess what?!? Out here in the real world, Charles, EMULATION IS
> LEGAL. SO JUST F%^&ING DEAL WITH IT, BITCH.
I do. Post the URL's of your favorite emulation sites and I'll
happily pass them along to SIIA and other interested parties
for investigation and shutdown.
Charles Doane
snoob schreef wrote:
> "Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:3DB53948...@mindspring.com...
>
>>
>>Verb wrote:
>>
>>>Okay. If one is to buy a USED Nomad, they aren't putting any money into
>>
> the
>
>>>manufacturer's
>>>hands, or the original distributor's hands, or the game developers'
>>
> hands.
>
>>>How is this good for gaming?
>>
>>It puts money in a GAMER'S hands. If the GAMER doesn't have money, ain't
>>nobody else in the videogame food chain getting any money either. It's a
>>simple concept called cash flow.
>
>
> Um, the person buying the nomad is also a gamer. The could go and spend that
> mone on a new game.
There's not really any such thing as spending money on a "new game".
When you buy a game, that game is already pretty old and the money
spent was already in the hands of the publisher long before it ever
left your pocket. They get their money from the store, and it's not
a consignment sale. The store doesn't put your money in a little
envelope and mail it off to the publisher for you.
This is an indirect market based on cash flow. It doesn't much
matter how the cash gets into the flow any more than it matters
where the water in a river came from. What matters is that it
gets there.
> F%^& dude are you really serious about all this anti PC sh^&?
I hate PC gaming. Never have I seen such incompetence masquerading
as professional presentations.
PC games ship with class "A" (gamestopper) bugs in them and the
gamers PUT UP with that crap! They'll go download a patch and
all will be forgiven. I only buy things that WORK, WORK RIGHT,
and WORK OUT OF THE BOX. Nothing less is acceptable.
> I thought you were just trying to be funny or cause a stir or
> something.
You're new here, aren't you? I HATE PC's. The last PC game I
bought was Hexen. Shortly after screwing around with that piece
of crap for THREE DAYS trying to get it running right, I saw the
Saturn version of Hexen on the shelf. I bought it, popped it
into my Saturn deck, and it ran silky-smooth. It was then that
I smacked my forehead and said "what kind of IDIOT buys PC games?".
Not me. Not anymore. My PC has been *FIRED* from playing games.
> Your points are just plain stupidity and all you're doing it
> making it look like you dont know how to use a PC.
Yeah, right, I don't know how to use a PC. That wouldn't really
explain my postings, now would it? I know how to use a PC quite
well and I actually prefer MS-DOS line commands over the stupid
GUI interfaces of the Win9X or NT series.
I don't like paying other people for a do-it-yourself job.
If a concert were handled like a PC game usually is, the
audience wouldn't accept that in a bazillion years!
****At the PC-GAMER concert****
Band Leader: Hello? We seem to have lost our drummer! Can
anyone in the audience play the drums?
PC-Audience: What? You're kidding, right? We supply that?
Band Leader: Yes of course. It worked in the last venue.
PC-Audience: Oh, okay. Fine, we found you a drummer here.
Band Leader: Very nice! Now, can anybody here actually sing?
PC-Audience: What? What in Heaven's name are we PAYING for?
Band Leader: My organizational skills, of course! Any singers?
PC-Audience: Okay, this guy won a karaoke contest once.
Band Leader: Aaah, this is good. Now we need a guitar player.
PC-Audience: Now WAIT a minute. Did you even bring a band?
Band Leader: Of course not. I call this downloading a patch.
********************************
The audience is expected to supply their eyes and ears, and
maybe some mad gaming skillz but NOTHING ELSE, at least so
far as I'm concerned. I won't buy a game to learn about the
PC any more than somebody would buy a concert ticket to learn
how to play a musical instrument.
You can go ahead and say that I can't use a PC. The evidence
against that is right before your very eyes. I most certainly
*can* use a PC. I just don't think it's much fun at all.
I certainly wouldn't pay for entertainment on a machine that
is more work than fun.
ZoqFotPik
> If emulators were legal, then you would be able to get them through
> retail channels, but you CAN'T do that with the exception of licensed
> ones.
Obviously you cannot buy what is not for sale. That has nothing to do
with whether or not those emulators are legal.
> Maybe if you had a brain in your head you'd realize that the only
> way you can even get these rotten emulators is via shady websites
> and disreputable FTP sites.
Not really. There are many emulation sites that have been around for
years. Sites that distribute roms may get shut down, but sites that
simply provide emulators and resources for emulation remain stable
because there is nothing they do that is illegal
> In other words, DUMBASS, just because crooks are setting up their
> criminal enterprises on the web does not make them legal. The
> whole REASON that they do it is to avoid prosecution. Any retail
> store selling emulators and romz would be treated just as you
> suggest these illegal web sites might be.
Is that anything like the way retail chains that carried import games
were treated?
ZoqFotPik
> They do if they contain so much as one byte of copyrighted code.
Copies may be made to facilitate interoperability, etc. We have been
through this many times and you are still wrong. Emulation is legal.
> I'm not violating any copyright laws because the system is technically
> an import too. So, I'll be playing Ikaruga and you'll be screaming
> that I'm a hypocrite. Wrong. It's not an illegitimate copy.
No, but it is illegitimate use of a legitimate copy. The fact that
your console was manufactured in Japan does not make it an import.
ZoqFotPik
> You're new here, aren't you? I HATE PC's. The last PC game I
> bought was Hexen.
No, that would be Microsoft Flight Simulator 2002.
> You can go ahead and say that I can't use a PC. The evidence
> against that is right before your very eyes. I most certainly
> *can* use a PC. I just don't think it's much fun at all.
> I certainly wouldn't pay for entertainment on a machine that
> is more work than fun.
And once again, that you believe using a PC is such a daunting ordeal
proves that you do not really know how to use one at all.
RedFox
> No, it's still illegal. But don't worry, no one but Doane and a few other
> losers on this NG really cares. Don't worry about justifying it, just
enjoy
> the games.
I just like stiring Doane up, I know his game ;)
-RedFox
VåîrXpért
Charles Doane
ZoqFotPik wrote:
> Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<3DB7CEDD...@mindspring.com>...
>
>
>>If emulators were legal, then you would be able to get them through
>>retail channels, but you CAN'T do that with the exception of licensed
>>ones.
> Obviously you cannot buy what is not for sale. That has nothing to do
> with whether or not those emulators are legal.
The reason that they're not for sale is that they are NOT legal.
>>Maybe if you had a brain in your head you'd realize that the only
>>way you can even get these rotten emulators is via shady websites
>>and disreputable FTP sites.
> Not really. There are many emulation sites that have been around for
> years. Sites that distribute roms may get shut down, but sites that
> simply provide emulators and resources for emulation remain stable
> because there is nothing they do that is illegal
They aid and abet people looking to do illegal things.
>>In other words, DUMBASS, just because crooks are setting up their
>>criminal enterprises on the web does not make them legal. The
>>whole REASON that they do it is to avoid prosecution. Any retail
>>store selling emulators and romz would be treated just as you
>>suggest these illegal web sites might be.
> Is that anything like the way retail chains that carried import games
> were treated?
Retail chains carry import games all the time. The Game Stop at
Spectrum Mall has a few copies left of the European release of
Shenmue II. I bought my copy of Metal Slug for the Saturn at
Babbages. You are obviously quite out of touch.
Charles Doane
ZoqFotPik wrote:
> Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<3DB75644...@mindspring.com>...
>
>
>>They do if they contain so much as one byte of copyrighted code.
>
>
> Copies may be made to facilitate interoperability, etc. We have been
> through this many times and you are still wrong. Emulation is legal.
Interoperability with a MACHINE. Funny how you always leave out that
little qualifier when you mention USC Title 17 (117) because it shoots
your argument down cold. An emulator does not happen to be a machine.
>>I'm not violating any copyright laws because the system is technically
>>an import too. So, I'll be playing Ikaruga and you'll be screaming
>>that I'm a hypocrite. Wrong. It's not an illegitimate copy.
> No, but it is illegitimate use of a legitimate copy. The fact that
> your console was manufactured in Japan does not make it an import.
That's EXACTLY what it is. It was made in Japan. Therefore it is
an import. You lost that argument.
Charles Doane
ZoqFotPik wrote:
> Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<3DB7DE12...@mindspring.com>...
>
>
>>You're new here, aren't you? I HATE PC's. The last PC game I
>>bought was Hexen.
> No, that would be Microsoft Flight Simulator 2002.
That's not a game, it's a simulator. It says "Simulator"
right on the box. Nowhere does it say "game".
>>You can go ahead and say that I can't use a PC. The evidence
>>against that is right before your very eyes. I most certainly
>>*can* use a PC. I just don't think it's much fun at all.
>>I certainly wouldn't pay for entertainment on a machine that
>>is more work than fun.
> And once again, that you believe using a PC is such a daunting ordeal
> proves that you do not really know how to use one at all.
The fact that I'm using Netscape 7.0 is plenty of proof that I *do*
"know how to use one at all". You blind, boy?
Sweater Fish
VåîrXpért wrote:
> >I just like stiring Doane up, I know his game ;)
> >
> >-RedFox
>
> Grow up
Sean Connery
Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>You're new here, aren't you? I HATE PC's. The last PC game I
>>>bought was Hexen.
>
>> No, that would be Microsoft Flight Simulator 2002.
>
>That's not a game, it's a simulator. It says "Simulator"
>right on the box. Nowhere does it say "game".
I can't find the word "game" on my UT2003 box either. Damn. I guess that
means it's a simulation as well. Oh well, I'm all for training! Snicker.
>>>You can go ahead and say that I can't use a PC. The evidence
>>>against that is right before your very eyes. I most certainly
>>>*can* use a PC. I just don't think it's much fun at all.
>>>I certainly wouldn't pay for entertainment on a machine that
>>>is more work than fun.
>
>> And once again, that you believe using a PC is such a daunting ordeal
>> proves that you do not really know how to use one at all.
>
>The fact that I'm using Netscape 7.0 is plenty of proof that I *do*
>"know how to use one at all". You blind, boy?
Wow, you're using AOL software. How...impressive. I've only heard of a
few other people able to pull that off. Congratulations!!!
More snickering.
Sean Connery
Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>Maybe if you had a brain in your head you'd realize that the only
>>>way you can even get these rotten emulators is via shady websites
>>>and disreputable FTP sites.
>
>> Not really. There are many emulation sites that have been around for
>> years. Sites that distribute roms may get shut down, but sites that
>> simply provide emulators and resources for emulation remain stable
>> because there is nothing they do that is illegal
>
>They aid and abet people looking to do illegal things.
So do guns. Yet you draw a very big line about gun ownership and gun
irresponsibility/violence. Are you retarded or just a hippocrite?
Mark Bradshaw
<gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>ZoqFotPik wrote:
>> Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<3DB7DE12...@mindspring.com>...
>>
>>
>>>You're new here, aren't you? I HATE PC's. The last PC game I
>>>bought was Hexen.
>
>> No, that would be Microsoft Flight Simulator 2002.
>
>That's not a game, it's a simulator. It says "Simulator"
>right on the box. Nowhere does it say "game".
>
Just wondering. When you're typing these things out, are you aware of
how goddamned stupid you sound, or is that realization not fully
complete until after you read your replies?
Mark Bradshaw
<Petshop...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:3DB53948...@mindspring.com...
>>
>>
>> Verb wrote:
>> >
>> > Okay. If one is to buy a USED Nomad, they aren't putting any money into
>the
>> > manufacturer's
>> > hands, or the original distributor's hands, or the game developers'
>hands.
>> > How is this good for gaming?
>>
>> It puts money in a GAMER'S hands. If the GAMER doesn't have money, ain't
>> nobody else in the videogame food chain getting any money either. It's a
>> simple concept called cash flow.
>
>Um, the person buying the nomad is also a gamer. The could go and spend that
>mone on a new game.
>
>Fuck dude are you really serious about all this anti PC shit? I thought you
>were just trying to be funny or cause a stir or something.
DING DING DING! We have a winnah! Give the man a prize!
Notice, you'll never see the man post a Sega-related topic, or reply
in a useful manner to a Sega-related topic. He doesn't care about
Sega, he doesn't care about gaming, all he wants to do is jump around
in his cage, throw shit at the kids gawking at him, and get attention.
He is, by far, the most damaging troll this group has ever seen, or
likely will ever see.
Michael Cargill
> right on the box. Nowhere does it say "game".
So Gran Turisimo isnt a game either then? 'The Real driving Simulator' is
on the box.
And no Mario game had the word 'game' on the box either.
> The fact that I'm using Netscape 7.0 is plenty of proof that I *do*
> "know how to use one at all". You blind, boy?
You must be so proud of your AOL-ware.
--
Lovingly Created by Michael Cargill
-------------------------------------
'Don't Be a Poof - Eat White Bread!'
'You're Gonna Need a Bigger Boat' - Sheriff Brody, Jaws
snoob schreef
>
>
> snoob schreef wrote:
> > "Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > news:3DB53948...@mindspring.com...
> > Um, the person buying the nomad is also a gamer. The could go and spend
that
> > mone on a new game.
>
> There's not really any such thing as spending money on a "new game".
> When you buy a game, that game is already pretty old and the money
> spent was already in the hands of the publisher long before it ever
> left your pocket. They get their money from the store, and it's not
> a consignment sale. The store doesn't put your money in a little
> envelope and mail it off to the publisher for you.
> This is an indirect market based on cash flow. It doesn't much
> matter how the cash gets into the flow any more than it matters
> where the water in a river came from. What matters is that it
> gets there.
If noone buys a new release game, then obviously the developer isnt going to
make very much money are they, store would just write off the unsold stock
(daikatana) and make a loss on it. If people buy tonnes of copies of a game
(eg. gta3) then stores have to keep buying more from the publisher. Hence
money gets to the developer through sales.
I think it was about kindergarten I learned that.
Now onto selling second hand games: if a person buys a game then sells it to
someone else second hand, then that person sells it again until its gone
through about 8 or more owners, thats 8 copies of the game that the
developer didnt see any returns on, although 8 people played it. To me this
is just as bad as piracy. There is no guarantee that sellers are going to
spend that money on a new game.
> > F%^& dude are you really serious about all this anti PC sh^&?
>
> I hate PC gaming. Never have I seen such incompetence masquerading
> as professional presentations.
>
> PC games ship with class "A" (gamestopper) bugs in them and the
> gamers PUT UP with that crap! They'll go download a patch and
> all will be forgiven. I only buy things that WORK, WORK RIGHT,
> and WORK OUT OF THE BOX. Nothing less is acceptable.
95% of PC games work out of the box, I work in a games store so I regularly
take home games for a trial so I get about 2 games per week. If a patch is
required it takes maybe 2 mintes to download. If it took you 3 days to
install hexen then I think you dont know what you're doing.
And why would you play flight sim 2002? This is a game that requires effort
to install and patches regularly come out for it.
> > I thought you were just trying to be funny or cause a stir or
> > something.
>
>
> Yeah, right, I don't know how to use a PC. That wouldn't really
> explain my postings, now would it? I know how to use a PC quite
> well and I actually prefer MS-DOS line commands over the stupid
> GUI interfaces of the Win9X or NT series.
Yes DOS days were great, when you had to manually set up sound card IRQs and
DMAs and then pray that a game would run on your system, if not, back to the
autoexec editing. Now if I get a new video or sound card, I can actually
plug it in WHILE THE PC IS STILL ON and XP will automatically detect it,
install the drivers and most of the time it will work right away with any
game I have.
> I don't like paying other people for a do-it-yourself job.
So do it yourself, idiot.
(snip stupid band analogy)
> You can go ahead and say that I can't use a PC. The evidence
> against that is right before your very eyes. I most certainly
> *can* use a PC. I just don't think it's much fun at all.
> I certainly wouldn't pay for entertainment on a machine that
> is more work than fun.
PC games are absolutely no work for me at all, put in the disc, hit YES a
couple of times and the game starts.
How come your games dont do that? Maybe im just good at clicking NEXT >>
buttons with my mouse. I like to think Im good at aiming ^^
Charles Doane
Sean Connery wrote:
> In article <3DB89BA9...@mindspring.com>,
> Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>>You're new here, aren't you? I HATE PC's. The last PC game I
>>>>bought was Hexen.
>>>
>>>No, that would be Microsoft Flight Simulator 2002.
>>
>>That's not a game, it's a simulator. It says "Simulator"
>>right on the box. Nowhere does it say "game".
> I can't find the word "game" on my UT2003 box either. Damn. I guess that
> means it's a simulation as well. Oh well, I'm all for training! Snicker.
No, that's called "truth in advertising". That's crap, not a game.
Stupid and worthless FPS isn't even worth being called garbage,
much less a game.
>>>>You can go ahead and say that I can't use a PC. The evidence
>>>>against that is right before your very eyes. I most certainly
>>>>*can* use a PC. I just don't think it's much fun at all.
>>>>I certainly wouldn't pay for entertainment on a machine that
>>>>is more work than fun.
>>>
>>>And once again, that you believe using a PC is such a daunting ordeal
>>>proves that you do not really know how to use one at all.
>>
>>The fact that I'm using Netscape 7.0 is plenty of proof that I *do*
>>"know how to use one at all". You blind, boy?
> Wow, you're using AOL software. How...impressive. I've only heard of a
> few other people able to pull that off. Congratulations!!!
AOL didn't create Netscape, they bought them out after Microsoft
nearly bankrupted the company. It's still a far sight better
than using IE which has more security holes than a New Mexico
Nuclear Research facility and more bugs than a Russian-built
Embassy.
> More snickering.
About what? That somebody can make software that FREAKIN' WORKS
the first time? You find that funny? No wonder you like PC's.
You're a fan of incompetence.
Charles Doane
Sean Connery wrote:
> In article <3DB89994...@mindspring.com>,
> Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>>Maybe if you had a brain in your head you'd realize that the only
>>>>way you can even get these rotten emulators is via shady websites
>>>>and disreputable FTP sites.
>>>
>>>Not really. There are many emulation sites that have been around for
>>>years. Sites that distribute roms may get shut down, but sites that
>>>simply provide emulators and resources for emulation remain stable
>>>because there is nothing they do that is illegal
>>
>>They aid and abet people looking to do illegal things.
> So do guns. Yet you draw a very big line about gun ownership and gun
> irresponsibility/violence. Are you retarded or just a hippocrite?
Wrong. Guns enhance responsibility. Look at any cop and you will
see a gun. Go to any shooting range and witness responsibility
first-hand.
I would have no problem with a death penalty for any criminal act
involving a gun. There's no problem with a cop shooting a crook
with a gun, so extend that logic to the rest of the justice system.
Charles Doane
Mark Bradshaw wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:17:29 -0700, Charles Doane
> <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>ZoqFotPik wrote:
>>
>>>Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<3DB7DE12...@mindspring.com>...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>You're new here, aren't you? I HATE PC's. The last PC game I
>>>>bought was Hexen.
>>>
>>>No, that would be Microsoft Flight Simulator 2002.
>>
>>That's not a game, it's a simulator. It says "Simulator"
>>right on the box. Nowhere does it say "game".
>>
>
>
>
> Just wondering. When you're typing these things out, are you aware of
> how g^&damned stupid you sound, or is that realization not fully
> complete until after you read your replies?
I sound better than you and your blasphemous cursing, loser.
Charles Doane
Michael Cargill wrote:
>>That's not a game, it's a simulator. It says "Simulator"
>>right on the box. Nowhere does it say "game".
>
>
> So Gran Turisimo isnt a game either then? 'The Real driving Simulator' is
> on the box.
Let's see what else the series says on the box.
Gran Turismo 3 says "photo-realistic graphics blur the line between game
and reality". That's an admission that it is, indeed, a game.
Gran Turismo 2 says "The world's most advanced racing game returns".
Sounds like a game to me.
Gran Turismo says "welcome to the most advanced racing game ever created."
which is definitely an admission of game-hood.
> And no Mario game had the word 'game' on the box either.
That must explain why the Mario Monks were so confused. In case you
haven't noticed, Nintendo is exclusively a game company. They're not
real big on office productivity software.
>>The fact that I'm using Netscape 7.0 is plenty of proof that I *do*
>>"know how to use one at all". You blind, boy?
> You must be so proud of your AOL-ware.
It's not mine. You people seem to think that intellectual property
is owned by someone other than the copyright owner. Get rid of that
idea because it's false. I don't happen to own Windows XP either.
Charles Doane
snoob schreef wrote:
> "Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:3DB7DE12...@mindspring.com...
>
>>
>>snoob schreef wrote:
>>
>>>"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>news:3DB53948...@mindspring.com...
>>
>
>>>Um, the person buying the nomad is also a gamer. The could go and spend
>>
> that
>
>>>mone on a new game.
>>
>>There's not really any such thing as spending money on a "new game".
>>When you buy a game, that game is already pretty old and the money
>>spent was already in the hands of the publisher long before it ever
>>left your pocket. They get their money from the store, and it's not
>>a consignment sale. The store doesn't put your money in a little
>>envelope and mail it off to the publisher for you.
>>This is an indirect market based on cash flow. It doesn't much
>>matter how the cash gets into the flow any more than it matters
>>where the water in a river came from. What matters is that it
>>gets there.
>
>
> If noone buys a new release game, then obviously the developer isnt going to
> make very much money are they, store would just write off the unsold stock
> (daikatana) and make a loss on it. If people buy tonnes of copies of a game
> (eg. gta3) then stores have to keep buying more from the publisher. Hence
> money gets to the developer through sales.
Stores don't buy from publishers, they buy from distributors and they often
have their own distribution system. This lets them cut costs by quite a
bit. The most apparent example I had of this was during the death of the
3DO game console (which I own). I was shopping for games while I could,
and I kept hearing the same thing from Babbages employees over and over.
"We can get that tomorrow for you." the clerks would say. Finally, one
spilled the beans on WHERE they were getting them from. The District
Manager (DM) had pulled all 3DO softs from every Babbages and sent them
to the one with the best 3DO sales records. Guess where I went running
to? It was almost wall-to-wall 3DO on clearance. I had to help 'em out
a bit. Can't let good games go to waste.
> I think it was about kindergarten I learned that.
I think it's a bit more complicated than your finger-paintings.
The method of distribution is as indirect as the cash flow is.
Stores typically do not order from publishers directly but rather
from their own internal distribution. This accomplishes two main
goals. It gives a chain tremendous buying power (an order of 100,000
copies is going to get a better deal than an order of 10 copies) and
then inventory management can put copies where they need to be when
they need to be there under a concept called "just in time shipping"
and that's a big part of a DM's job. Nobody likes warehouses or
stock sitting around. This is a cash flow market. If games are
sitting, then cash ain't flowing and that's bad for everybody.
> Now onto selling second hand games: if a person buys a game then sells it to
> someone else second hand, then that person sells it again until its gone
> through about 8 or more owners, thats 8 copies of the game that the
> developer didnt see any returns on, although 8 people played it. To me this
> is just as bad as piracy. There is no guarantee that sellers are going to
> spend that money on a new game.
I have to explain this over and over and over again. Fine. As many
times as it takes, I will do. This is a cash flow market.
Let's say that a game sells once. Only once, only owned by one guy.
Sum total cash flow generated is $50.
Let's say that the same game sells once for $50, next for $30, again
for $20, and then for your next 5 times at a measly $10 apiece.
Sum total cash flow generated is $150.
Now, is $150 better than $50 in a cash flow market? You betcha.
The paradigm you have to lose in order to understand this is that
it simply doesn't MATTER where the money came from. So what if
the guy doesn't take THAT exact $10 bill he got from selling a
used game and use it on a new game? That makes no difference.
It still boosts his available income by $10, and if he uses it
a month later, a year later, or ten years later it will still
benefit the industry in the long run. It's discretionary income
he wouldn't otherwise have. In a biz that lives or dies on
discretionary income, that's all good.
>>>F%^& dude are you really serious about all this anti PC sh^&?
>>
>>I hate PC gaming. Never have I seen such incompetence masquerading
>>as professional presentations.
>>
>>PC games ship with class "A" (gamestopper) bugs in them and the
>>gamers PUT UP with that crap! They'll go download a patch and
>>all will be forgiven. I only buy things that WORK, WORK RIGHT,
>>and WORK OUT OF THE BOX. Nothing less is acceptable.
>
>
> 95% of PC games work out of the box, I work in a games store so I regularly
> take home games for a trial so I get about 2 games per week. If a patch is
> required it takes maybe 2 mintes to download. If it took you 3 days to
> install hexen then I think you dont know what you're doing.
No, I know what I'm doing TOO WELL which is why I tend to try and
tweak the hell out of it instead of just playing the damned thing.
It didn't take me three days to install the game. It took me three
days to be satisfied that it was running as well as it possibly
could.
> And why would you play flight sim 2002? This is a game that requires effort
> to install and patches regularly come out for it.
It's not a game, and I like to spend time just peacefully cruising
with few worries. That's kinda why I like Artdink's oddball title
"Aquanaut's Holiday" so much. No pressure, no stress, just make a
few minor adjustments every few minutes and relax between takeoff
and landing.
>> > I thought you were just trying to be funny or cause a stir or
>> > something.
>>Yeah, right, I don't know how to use a PC. That wouldn't really
>>explain my postings, now would it? I know how to use a PC quite
>>well and I actually prefer MS-DOS line commands over the stupid
>>GUI interfaces of the Win9X or NT series.
> Yes DOS days were great, when you had to manually set up sound card IRQs and
> DMAs and then pray that a game would run on your system, if not, back to the
> autoexec editing. Now if I get a new video or sound card, I can actually
> plug it in WHILE THE PC IS STILL ON and XP will automatically detect it,
> install the drivers and most of the time it will work right away with any
> game I have.
Hot swaps are a fool's paradise (you can fry a machine doing that)
and at least back then with the autoexec editing there was a chance
to get a game to run. Now if the thing doesn't work (which is so
commonplace that no one denies it happens) there's no chance of
fixing it yourself, ever.
>>I don't like paying other people for a do-it-yourself job.
> So do it yourself, idiot.
Not when it's a luxury item. That's not gonna happen.
> (snip stupid band analogy)
>
>
>>You can go ahead and say that I can't use a PC. The evidence
>>against that is right before your very eyes. I most certainly
>>*can* use a PC. I just don't think it's much fun at all.
>>I certainly wouldn't pay for entertainment on a machine that
>>is more work than fun.
>
>
> PC games are absolutely no work for me at all, put in the disc, hit YES a
> couple of times and the game starts.
What a load of hooey. They don't do that. They ask STUPID questions.
"What directory would you like this installed in?"
"Keyboard detected. Would you like to use it?"
"What is the airspeed of an unladen swallow?"
"You must bring to us, a shrubbery!"
Screw that crap. It's a luxury item. They're not allowed to piss me
off not even once.
> How come your games dont do that? Maybe im just good at clicking NEXT >>
> buttons with my mouse. I like to think Im good at aiming ^^
Maybe it's because PC games are intelligent enough to know I hate
them and they try to piss me off at every given opportunity.
ZoqFotPik
> The reason that they're not for sale is that they are NOT legal.
No, the reason that they are not for sale is that their creators have
not offered them for sale. This has nothing to do with whether or not
they are legal.
> They aid and abet people looking to do illegal things.
They cannot be held responsible for the illegal uses of the legal
emulators and legal resources they provide, and as such they are in no
danger of being shut down.
> Retail chains carry import games all the time. The Game Stop at
> Spectrum Mall has a few copies left of the European release of
> Shenmue II. I bought my copy of Metal Slug for the Saturn at
> Babbages. You are obviously quite out of touch.
You are well aware of the pressure brought to bear on various retail
chains to stop carrying import games. By your logic this indicates
that they are illegal.
ZoqFotPik
> Interoperability with a MACHINE. Funny how you always leave out that
> little qualifier when you mention USC Title 17 (117) because it shoots
> your argument down cold. An emulator does not happen to be a machine.
The machine in question is of course the PC which the game is being
made to run on through the use of an emulator, copies of necessary
data, etc. Emulation is still legal. You are still wrong.
> That's EXACTLY what it is. It was made in Japan. Therefore it is
> an import.
No, the fact that your console was manufactured in Japan does not make
it an import, so while your import games might be legitimate copies,
the manner in which you use them is notlegitimate at all.
ZoqFotPik
> That's not a game, it's a simulator. It says "Simulator"
> right on the box. Nowhere does it say "game".
Except on Microsoft's own website, where they call it "the
best-selling PC flight simulation game ever".
> The fact that I'm using Netscape 7.0 is plenty of proof that I *do*
> "know how to use one at all". You blind, boy?
The fact that you lost your Netscape settings when switching over to
DSL is plenty of proof that you do not.
Michael Cargill
>
> Gran Turismo 3 says "photo-realistic graphics blur the line between game
> and reality". That's an admission that it is, indeed, a game.
>
> Gran Turismo 2 says "The world's most advanced racing game returns".
> Sounds like a game to me.
>
> Gran Turismo says "welcome to the most advanced racing game ever created."
> which is definitely an admission of game-hood.
Microsofts Flight Sim also says it is a game on their website, and it is
listed in the games section at all online retailers.
> That must explain why the Mario Monks were so confused. In case you
> haven't noticed, Nintendo is exclusively a game company. They're not
> real big on office productivity software.
MS is mainly an OS company, but that doesnt stop them selling mice and
keyboards.
> >>The fact that I'm using Netscape 7.0 is plenty of proof that I *do*
> >>"know how to use one at all". You blind, boy?
>
> > You must be so proud of your AOL-ware.
>
> It's not mine. You people seem to think that intellectual property
> is owned by someone other than the copyright owner. Get rid of that
> idea because it's false. I don't happen to own Windows XP either.
Oh please. If all you can do is try and argue semantics, why even bother?
Just for you:
You must be so proud of the AOL-ware you use.
snoob schreef
I am not talking in complex terms, Charles, I simply said that if store sell
more copies of any given game, the developer is obviously going to see more
return than if their game sold shit all. That's all.
> > Now onto selling second hand games: if a person buys a game then sells
it to
> > someone else second hand, then that person sells it again until its gone
> > through about 8 or more owners, thats 8 copies of the game that the
> > developer didnt see any returns on, although 8 people played it. To me
this
> > is just as bad as piracy. There is no guarantee that sellers are going
to
> > spend that money on a new game.
>
> I have to explain this over and over and over again. Fine. As many
> times as it takes, I will do. This is a cash flow market.
>
> Let's say that a game sells once. Only once, only owned by one guy.
> Sum total cash flow generated is $50.
>
> Let's say that the same game sells once for $50, next for $30, again
> for $20, and then for your next 5 times at a measly $10 apiece.
> Sum total cash flow generated is $150.
>
> Now, is $150 better than $50 in a cash flow market? You betcha.
I know that selling the game 8 times is good for the economy, which is what
you said in a nutshell, the second hand game could be anything, say a rock,
and if people sold it to each other it would increase the economy's velocity
of money and eventually GDP in the long term.
However this is beside the point, selling second hand games means a loss of
income for the developer of the game, the publisher and also the retailer.
To me, someone selling a second hand game is just as bad as someone selling
a CDR of the game. They achieve the same thing in the end, the lousy pirates
(or second hand sellers) end up with the income while the game developers
miss out.
I believe if you sell second hand games you don't deserve to play them in
the first place.
> >>>F%^& dude are you really serious about all this anti PC sh^&?
> >>
> >>I hate PC gaming. Never have I seen such incompetence masquerading
> >>as professional presentations.
> >>
> >>PC games ship with class "A" (gamestopper) bugs in them and the
> >>gamers PUT UP with that crap! They'll go download a patch and
> >>all will be forgiven. I only buy things that WORK, WORK RIGHT,
> >>and WORK OUT OF THE BOX. Nothing less is acceptable.
> >
> >
> > 95% of PC games work out of the box, I work in a games store so I
regularly
> > take home games for a trial so I get about 2 games per week. If a patch
is
> > required it takes maybe 2 mintes to download. If it took you 3 days to
> > install hexen then I think you dont know what you're doing.
>
> No, I know what I'm doing TOO WELL which is why I tend to try and
> tweak the hell out of it instead of just playing the damned thing.
> It didn't take me three days to install the game. It took me three
> days to be satisfied that it was running as well as it possibly
> could.
Well that's really your own problem isnt it. I am able to tweak my PC when I
assembled it, so it runs great with any game.
> > And why would you play flight sim 2002? This is a game that requires
effort
> > to install and patches regularly come out for it.
>
> It's not a game, and I like to spend time just peacefully cruising
> with few worries. That's kinda why I like Artdink's oddball title
> "Aquanaut's Holiday" so much. No pressure, no stress, just make a
> few minor adjustments every few minutes and relax between takeoff
> and landing.
It may not be a game, but it is still a collection of coding used to create
a 3d world on your PC. It requires installation, it requires tweaking and it
involves challenging situations, just like a game.
Why do you play it if you cant be satisfied with it performance? However did
you install it?
> >> > I thought you were just trying to be funny or cause a stir or
> >> > something.
>
> >>Yeah, right, I don't know how to use a PC. That wouldn't really
> >>explain my postings, now would it? I know how to use a PC quite
> >>well and I actually prefer MS-DOS line commands over the stupid
> >>GUI interfaces of the Win9X or NT series.
>
> > Yes DOS days were great, when you had to manually set up sound card IRQs
and
> > DMAs and then pray that a game would run on your system, if not, back to
the
> > autoexec editing. Now if I get a new video or sound card, I can actually
> > plug it in WHILE THE PC IS STILL ON and XP will automatically detect it,
> > install the drivers and most of the time it will work right away with
any
> > game I have.
>
> Hot swaps are a fool's paradise (you can fry a machine doing that)
> and at least back then with the autoexec editing there was a chance
> to get a game to run. Now if the thing doesn't work (which is so
> commonplace that no one denies it happens) there's no chance of
> fixing it yourself, ever.
Now you are making up blatant lies. If a game doesn't work (i think ive had
this problem maybe 3 times since ive had my current PC) its usually just a
patch issue ordriver incompatability. All you do is read the FAQ and fix it
within about 5 mins. If its a good game, 5 mins of set up is no hassle.
> >>I don't like paying other people for a do-it-yourself job.
>
> > So do it yourself, idiot.
>
> Not when it's a luxury item. That's not gonna happen.
So are you lazy then? Even though I dont love fixing my computer, it doesnt
bother me that if I buy a video card, it may take some tweaking.
> > (snip stupid band analogy)
> >
> >
> >>You can go ahead and say that I can't use a PC. The evidence
> >>against that is right before your very eyes. I most certainly
> >>*can* use a PC. I just don't think it's much fun at all.
> >>I certainly wouldn't pay for entertainment on a machine that
> >>is more work than fun.
> >
> >
> > PC games are absolutely no work for me at all, put in the disc, hit YES
a
> > couple of times and the game starts.
>
> What a load of hooey. They don't do that. They ask STUPID questions.
> "What directory would you like this installed in?"
> "Keyboard detected. Would you like to use it?"
> "What is the airspeed of an unladen swallow?"
> "You must bring to us, a shrubbery!"
That's funny and all, but seriously most installations require one button.
> Screw that crap. It's a luxury item. They're not allowed to piss me
> off not even once.
Console games AND PC games piss me off regularly, but thats usually to do
with the game qualities, not because installation takes 5 minutes. If you
are so impatient that you cant install a game then you dont deserve to play
and good pc games.
> > How come your games dont do that? Maybe im just good at clicking NEXT >>
> > buttons with my mouse. I like to think Im good at aiming ^^
>
> Maybe it's because PC games are intelligent enough to know I hate
> them and they try to piss me off at every given opportunity.
Well if you dont like PC games thats fair enough, but I just dont see how
you can justify not playing them because they are hard to set up, because
it's simply not true.
PC games these days are so simple to install my grandma can do it. If you
had asked her to install doom when it came out, shes not going to figure out
how to set up my sb16 to work, but she can sure put a CD into winXP and hit
yes a couple of times.
Charles Doane
snoob schreef wrote:
> "Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:3DB94142...@mindspring.com...
>
>>
>>snoob schreef wrote:
>>
>>>"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>news:3DB7DE12...@mindspring.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>snoob schreef wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:3DB53948...@mindspring.com...
>>Stores don't buy from publishers, they buy from distributors and they
>> often
>>have their own distribution system. This lets them cut costs by quite a
>>bit. The most apparent example I had of this was during the death of the
>>3DO game console (which I own). I was shopping for games while I could,
>>and I kept hearing the same thing from Babbages employees over and over.
>>"We can get that tomorrow for you." the clerks would say. Finally, one
>>spilled the beans on WHERE they were getting them from. The District
>>Manager (DM) had pulled all 3DO softs from every Babbages and sent them
>>to the one with the best 3DO sales records. Guess where I went running
>>to? It was almost wall-to-wall 3DO on clearance. I had to help 'em out
>>a bit. Can't let good games go to waste.
> I am not talking in complex terms, Charles, I simply said that if store sell
> more copies of any given game, the developer is obviously going to see more
> return than if their game sold sh^& all. That's all.
That's overly simplistic and it doesn't work that way all of the time or
even most of the time. Different games have different development costs
and different consoles likewise have different development costs. The
first few games for a console are a double whammy.
Whammy #1. The programmers don't know jack about the hardware and so
they use more time learning the machine than they will over
the course of their subsequent games.
Whammy #2. The console's first few games are going to reach a limited
potential audience because the installed userbase is low.
Naturally this is going to reduce potential sales.
As time goes on, the game development gets cheaper, the potential
audience expands and there are more opportunities to make money.
For example, Sega can make Sonic games pretty easily now. The
bad guy is going to be Dr. Robotnik, the good guy is going to be
Sonic, and between Knuckles, Tails, Amy and the Flickies, the cast
is pretty much fleshed out. There's not much work left in that
department.
Returns=profits-dev costs. That's why the consoles are getting
so many ports across all platforms. Once the bulk of work (which
is not programming) is done then ports and sequels have remarkably
lower dev costs than original games do.
>>>Now onto selling second hand games: if a person buys a game then sells
>> it to
>>>someone else second hand, then that person sells it again until its gone
>>>through about 8 or more owners, thats 8 copies of the game that the
>>>developer didnt see any returns on, although 8 people played it. To me
>> this
>>>is just as bad as piracy. There is no guarantee that sellers are going
>> to spend that money on a new game.
>>
>>I have to explain this over and over and over again. Fine. As many
>>times as it takes, I will do. This is a cash flow market.
>>
>>Let's say that a game sells once. Only once, only owned by one guy.
>>Sum total cash flow generated is $50.
>>
>>Let's say that the same game sells once for $50, next for $30, again
>>for $20, and then for your next 5 times at a measly $10 apiece.
>>Sum total cash flow generated is $150.
>>
>>Now, is $150 better than $50 in a cash flow market? You betcha.
> I know that selling the game 8 times is good for the economy, which is what
> you said in a nutshell, the second hand game could be anything, say a rock,
> and if people sold it to each other it would increase the economy's velocity
> of money and eventually GDP in the long term.
>
> However this is beside the point, selling second hand games means a loss of
> income for the developer of the game, the publisher and also the retailer.
No, it doesn't mean that any more than a used car sale means a loss of
income for the maker of that car. If the car maker makes one car, then
they sell one car. If they want to sell more next year, then they make
more next year, usually an improved model. Video games are no different.
Like automakers, game developers sellthrough point is typically via
dealerships (Babbages, for example) and like automakers, the point
game developers receive their money from is at these dealers and
not directly from consumers. Therefore, the more money the dealers
make overall, the better it is for the game developers because the
dealers actually have enough cash liquidity to place the big orders.
Of course used game sales helps this liquidity.
A good example of what happens without enough liquidity is in the
upcoming Capcom game "Steel Battalion", which is going to run $200
and every store I've talked to is running pre-orders only. The
stores don't have enough money to risk on having $200 games sitting
around hoping that they'll actually sell. They don't have enough
cash liquidity.
> To me, someone selling a second hand game is just as bad as someone selling
> a CDR of the game. They achieve the same thing in the end, the lousy pirates
> (or second hand sellers) end up with the income while the game developers
> miss out.
That is utterly ridiculous. Let's take a game from the DC lineup,
Namco's "Soul Calibur". The reported sales figures for that game
is roughly 500,000 units. Nice game, nice round number.
Now, why did Namco stop making copies at 500,000? Why didn't they
just press a million, or two million?
Sega's royalties on that DC game were about $7 per unit, which
means that Namco paid Sega roughly $3.5 Million for every GD-ROM
pressed. Not sold, but pressed. That's money paid cash in advance.
If Namco were to have made 1 Million or 2 Million copies, then the
cost to Namco would have been $7 Million or $14 Million respectively.
If Namco were to have guessed wrong on how many copies the game would
sell by that much, then that much money would be coming straight out
of their bottom line. A CEO who makes mistakes like that has a dim
future as an EX-CEO.
Now, there's no way that Namco is going to be reprinting Soul Calibur
for the DC. It's a dead system, right? Soul Calibur 2 is going to
be the next installment and unlike it's predecessors, it's not going
to be a system exclusive.
So, of the 500,000 copies in existence, there are only two ways to
get one if you're one of the unlucky Souls with no Calibur. You
can buy a used copy or you can grab a pirate copy.
Let's explore the effects of each:
Piracy copy: Money goes to support a thief who believes that buying
games is something saps do, there's an additional copy
on the market hurting the used sales market for legit
gamers, and there's a copy Sega never got paid royalties
for made.
Preplayed : Money goes to support a legit game purchaser, the sum
total copies of games remains the same so there's no
negative effect on the fair market value and everyone
who needs to get paid has been paid for that copy.
Very few gamers actually make "income" off of the sales of a used
game. All they're doing is recouping some of their money which
they've already spent, just the same as someone trading in an old
used car.
> I believe if you sell second hand games you don't deserve to play them in
> the first place.
There's no basis for this argument. Like a person trading in a
used vehicle, the seller is eating the depreciation personally
and should get something for his money.
<snip>
> It may not be a game, but it is still a collection of coding used to create
> a 3d world on your PC. It requires installation, it requires tweaking and it
> involves challenging situations, just like a game.
>
> Why do you play it if you cant be satisfied with it performance? However did
> you install it?
I followed the TWO PAGES of directions in the FS2002 manual concerning
the installation process. TWO FREAKIN' PAGES! Do you know how many
pages there are concerning installation in the Dreamcast game Aerowings?
NOT ONE. Not a single line. Apparently only PC users are so STUPID
that they need to be told to insert a CD-Rom into their CD drive.
<snip>
>>Hot swaps are a fool's paradise (you can fry a machine doing that)
>>and at least back then with the autoexec editing there was a chance
>>to get a game to run. Now if the thing doesn't work (which is so
>>commonplace that no one denies it happens) there's no chance of
>>fixing it yourself, ever.
>
>
> Now you are making up blatant lies. If a game doesn't work (i think ive had
> this problem maybe 3 times since ive had my current PC) its usually just a
> patch issue ordriver incompatability. All you do is read the FAQ and fix it
> within about 5 mins. If its a good game, 5 mins of set up is no hassle.
In other words, if you don't have a 'net connection or you can't find
this FAQ, you are screwed. If there's no updated driver, you are
screwed. If the support website is down for maintenance (or down
forever) then you are screwed. It's a heckuva scam these PC game
companies are running.
>>>>I don't like paying other people for a do-it-yourself job.
>>>
>>>So do it yourself, idiot.
>>
>>Not when it's a luxury item. That's not gonna happen.
> So are you lazy then? Even though I dont love fixing my computer, it doesnt
> bother me that if I buy a video card, it may take some tweaking.
There's no laziness involved in expecting a little bit of luxury
out of a luxury item. It'd be like calling for pizza delivery
and being told I have to settle for carryout. No, I don't have
to do that, I can take my patronage elsewhere and that's exactly
what I do.
The laziness is on the part of the developers who are taking MY
MONEY to make ready-to-use entertainment and then not making it
completely ready-to-use. They're the ones trying to get me to
finish a job I paid THEM to do. Anybody else in any other sort
of service industry would get FIRED for doing that.
<snip>
>>>PC games are absolutely no work for me at all, put in the disc, hit YES
>>>a couple of times and the game starts.
>>
>>What a load of hooey. They don't do that. They ask STUPID questions.
>>"What directory would you like this installed in?"
>>"Keyboard detected. Would you like to use it?"
>>"What is the airspeed of an unladen swallow?"
>>"You must bring to us, a shrubbery!"
> That's funny and all, but seriously most installations require one button.
Not. They still start up the ruthless, evil, terrifying and imperious
"Installshield", a program which makes a curious five-year-old who
follows up every question with "why?" seem perfectly reasonable in
comparison.
Installshield: "Would you like to install this application?"
Sarcastic me : "No, I put it in because I needed the exercise." <Y>
Installshield: "Would you like to use the default directory?"
Sarcastic me : "No, I'd rather just choose one at random instead" <Y>
Installshield: "Directory does not exist. Would you like to create it?"
Sarcastic me : "No, let's just sit around and stare at each other." <Y>
Installshield: "Would you like a Full, Custom or Compact installation?"
Sarcastic me : "I'd like to compact the head of whoever wrote you." <Full>
Installshield: "Inspecting system for available resources. Please wait."
Sarcastic me : "Whoever wrote this must have been in insurance..." <waits>
Installshield: "Preparing to install application. Please wait."
Sarcastic me : "Preparing is what we've been doing for a HALF HOUR!" <Grrr>
Installshield: "Installation is complete. Reboot system?"
Sarcastic me : "Sure, if it gets rid of you" <Y>
Windows XP HE: "Windows is shutting down..."
Sarcastic me : "I'm sure Bill Gates is turning out the lights..."
Installshield: "Would you like to register your product online now?"
Sarcastic me : "You've got more lives than a New York cockroach!" <N>
Installshield: "Would you like to print out the registration form?"
Sarcastic me : "What do you think, braniac? I register NOTHING." <N>
Installshield: "Would you take a moment to fill out our short survey?"
Sarcastic me : "SHUT UP! DAMMIT! SHUT UP!" <N> <N> <N> <N> <N>
Installshield: "Would you like to view the readme file now?"
Sarcastic me : "Who made you? The Grand Inquisitor? SHUT UP!" <N>
Installshield: "Would you like to run the application now?"
Sarcastic me : "I would have a WEEK ago when we started this crap." <N>
One keypress my tookus. I'm fully convinced that there is a contest
between PC software developers to make the longest and most
ridiculous set of hoops for a paying customer to jump through ever.
>>Screw that crap. It's a luxury item. They're not allowed to piss me
>>off not even once.
>
>
> Console games AND PC games piss me off regularly, but thats usually to do
> with the game qualities, not because installation takes 5 minutes. If you
> are so impatient that you cant install a game then you dont deserve to play
> and good pc games.
There aren't any good PC games. I follow NPD/TRSTS game sales figures
maybe a bit more than the average gamer does, and the latest figures
ain't good for the PC.
http://www.npd.com/corp/content/ie/videogames/c_vg0208.htm
No games in the top 20 on PC for August. The last time I
ever saw one in the top 20 was Starcraft a few years ago.
PC game sales suck, mainly because they're so unfriendly.
>>>How come your games dont do that? Maybe im just good at clicking NEXT >>
>>>buttons with my mouse. I like to think Im good at aiming ^^
>>
>>Maybe it's because PC games are intelligent enough to know I hate
>>them and they try to piss me off at every given opportunity.
>
>
> Well if you dont like PC games thats fair enough, but I just dont see how
> you can justify not playing them because they are hard to set up, because
> it's simply not true.
Yes, it *is* true. Microsoft Flight Sim 2002 Pro Edition has a list of
THIRTEEN different system requirements that you HAVE TO READ. It's a
$70 software package and if you're running NT 4.0 you're screwed since
it won't run. I was concerned about Windows XP because a few of my
programs seem to think it's NT. If the box doesn't SAY that it'll
run on Windows XP then I can't buy it unless I buy it for Lara (my old
Win '98 P233MMX).
I HATE that. I know my system specs well enough to check 'em against
the package I'm interested in, but that's not how I want to shop for
games. I don't want to pick up Doom III and figure out what all I
have to upgrade to play that. I'd definitely need a new video card
(my system doesn't even have one) and that complicates matters too
much to make it any fun anymore.
The thing that really kills it is that while I know my own system
okay, it makes gift buying impossible. I don't know what my
brother's PC is or can handle well enough to check it against the
system requirements on a software package. I know he owns a PSX
though, and those system requirements are a one-line affair just
like all the other consoles are.
> PC games these days are so simple to install my grandma can do it. If you
> had asked her to install doom when it came out, shes not going to figure out
> how to set up my sb16 to work, but she can sure put a CD into winXP and hit
> yes a couple of times.
WinXP ain't all that and a bag of chips. No OS can make up for
crappy programming at any rate, so even if grandma DID have a
copy of DOOM she'd still have to jump through hoops to make it
work. Most PC software packages are made for multiple OS types,
so there's no help from XP for those. Sometimes XP seems to lie
to programs about what it is, much like the old "setver" command
in MS-DOS did. At least in the MS-DOS days programmers knew that
they had a 640KB limit on direct RAM and they'd optimize their
code for that. Nowadays they grab 64MB of RAM like that's nothin'.
What that is, is sloppy. The art of writing tight code is lost
except for in the console world.
snoob schreef
someones reply whe I get up in the morning and getting angry and end up with
a headache! But kudos to you charles, you never resort to insults like most
people on usenet who bash you if you like the tuning aspects of gran turismo
(????).
I'll just finish up but stating that to enjoy a PC game you may have to
spend 5 mins installing it, but PC games offer a lot of things that consoles
don't (dont get me wrong, i play consoles and pc) for example the flight
sims that you enjoy, FPS online games, strategy games. You arent really
going to find a game like some of the hardcore RPGs or the most popular
strategy games like warcraft 3 on a console just because the pc is better
suited for those types of games.
With your pizza man analogy, you're saying pc gaming is like when they wont
deliver the pc to your door. I say that you are the one that is expecting
the pizza boy to have a key to your house, let himself in, come over and
feed you your pizza. It wont happen. If you put in the 5 mins of
installation and answer their questions, however dumb they may be, you could
find a really great game that you will enjoy. I would gladly spend 20
minutes installing and tweaking a game if it's going to be one of my
favorites ever, by far. 20 minutes investment is a tiny price for the hours
upon hours of enjoyment you will get. And if you can't get the game working,
then by all means just return it to where you bought it, however I dont
think I can remember the last time I found a game that couldnt work on my
system, except wipeout 95 that actually requires win95. But thats what you
get when the game is $2.
Anyway take care and just try to be open minded about PC games. Even though
I dont like it, counterstrike has got to be one of the most popular games in
the world at the moment, surely your a little curious?
"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3DBAB40...@mindspring.com...
Charles Doane
snoob schreef wrote:
> I'm really sick of argueing, theres nothing I hate worse than reading
> someones reply whe I get up in the morning and getting angry and end up with
> a headache! But kudos to you charles, you never resort to insults like most
> people on usenet who bash you if you like the tuning aspects of gran turismo
> (????).
Actually, my favorite racer for tuning is Tokyo Xtreme Racer 2. Gran Turismo
gets a bit more complicated about it than it really needs to be.
I do sometimes insult others, but only in response to a perceived wrong.
> I'll just finish up but stating that to enjoy a PC game you may have to
> spend 5 mins installing it, but PC games offer a lot of things that consoles
> don't (dont get me wrong, i play consoles and pc) for example the flight
> sims that you enjoy, FPS online games, strategy games. You arent really
> going to find a game like some of the hardcore RPGs or the most popular
> strategy games like warcraft 3 on a console just because the pc is better
> suited for those types of games.
The only genre I'm even a little bit jealous of the PC of is the Flight Sim.
I've never been much into FPS games, and my type of Strat game is something
like Sega's "Shining Force" series. I tend to like the Japanese style of
RPG's a lot more than the Ultima style I've seen on PC's.
I play games to have fun, for recreation, and so simplicity is a good thing.
> With your pizza man analogy, you're saying pc gaming is like when they wont
> deliver the pc to your door. I say that you are the one that is expecting
> the pizza boy to have a key to your house, let himself in, come over and
> feed you your pizza. It wont happen. If you put in the 5 mins of
> installation and answer their questions, however dumb they may be, you could
> find a really great game that you will enjoy. I would gladly spend 20
> minutes installing and tweaking a game if it's going to be one of my
> favorites ever, by far. 20 minutes investment is a tiny price for the hours
> upon hours of enjoyment you will get. And if you can't get the game working,
> then by all means just return it to where you bought it, however I dont
> think I can remember the last time I found a game that couldnt work on my
> system, except wipeout 95 that actually requires win95. But thats what you
> get when the game is $2.
If a game is $50, it takes me a bit over an hour of working to make that
much money. I've already put in my time. I've already made my investment.
Many stores (I'd daresay most) won't take returns on open PC software for
obvious reasons. Pirates would just go to the store, buy the software,
install it and then return it because they don't need the installation
discs anymore. The store would be getting almost every soft they sold
returned if they were to allow that.
PC developers play games on the specs of their software all the time
and I for one am totally sick of it. The worst game they play is
"Minimum System Requirements" and "Recommended System Requirements".
For example, the popular FPS game "Duke Nukem 3D" claims that a
486 with 8MB of RAM will run it. It'll run like crap, but it'll
run. Want SVGA graphics? Uh-oh, you'll need a Pentium and 16MB
to do that. The old bait-and-switch is alive and well in the
PC gaming world. That ticks me off. Unless my system is MUCH
better (by a factor of at least two) than the minimum requirements,
I can't trust what their box says. I wouldn't have risked buying
Microsoft Flight Sim 2002, except that this machine specs four times
what the box is asking for in every category. Even then my confidence
level was low. I wouldn't have bought it from an unknown company.
Contrast that with the confidence level of buying a console game.
When I bought Beach Spikers for the Gamecube, I *knew* it would
work. I has the names of two of the best multimedia entertainment
companies on the planet right on the box, and they didn't play
that stupid "minimum requirements" crap. If you have a Gamecube,
this game will run smoother than butter on silk for you.
> Anyway take care and just try to be open minded about PC games. Even though
> I dont like it, counterstrike has got to be one of the most popular games in
> the world at the moment, surely your a little curious?
I used to LIKE PC games back in the Commodore 64/Atari 800 days
of yore. The big complaint back then was that the systems weren't
compatible. Which they weren't, same as the PS2 wouldn't ever be
reading a Gamecube disc, but at least they were UNIFORM in their
differences. I can't even name a PC standard anymore. Windows
has split at least four ways just since the intro of the PS2,
hasn't it? Win 2000, Win ME, Win XP and Win XP HE, that's four.
Which one is the standard? Which one will be the standard next
year?
Sean Connery
Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>And once again, that you believe using a PC is such a daunting ordeal
>>>>proves that you do not really know how to use one at all.
>>>
>>>The fact that I'm using Netscape 7.0 is plenty of proof that I *do*
>>>"know how to use one at all". You blind, boy?
>
>> Wow, you're using AOL software. How...impressive. I've only heard of a
>> few other people able to pull that off. Congratulations!!!
>
>AOL didn't create Netscape, they bought them out after Microsoft
>nearly bankrupted the company. It's still a far sight better
>than using IE which has more security holes than a New Mexico
>Nuclear Research facility and more bugs than a Russian-built
>Embassy.
I was using Netscape before it was Netscape under shell accounts with
hacks such as TIA. But thanks for the history lesson.
You're still using AOL software. Deal with it. I allready advised you to
switch to Mozilla.
>> More snickering.
>
>About what? That somebody can make software that FREAKIN' WORKS
>the first time? You find that funny? No wonder you like PC's.
>You're a fan of incompetence.
No. Just about you, as usual.
Sean Connery
Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>The fact that I'm using Netscape 7.0 is plenty of proof that I *do*
>>>"know how to use one at all". You blind, boy?
>
>> You must be so proud of your AOL-ware.
>
>It's not mine. You people seem to think that intellectual property
>is owned by someone other than the copyright owner. Get rid of that
>idea because it's false. I don't happen to own Windows XP either.
Welcome to the Collective, Doane of Borg.
Tim Miller
>
> The fact that I'm using Netscape 7.0 is plenty of proof that I *do*
> "know how to use one at all". You blind, boy?
How to install Netscape 7:
Go to http://www.netscape.com
Click on "download"
Click on your version of Windows
Download the program
Run the program
Follow the steps
And you're set up
You don't need to know how to use a PC to install Netscape 7, even les
than you needed to to install Netscape 6.
Tim (tm)
Tim Miller
>
> If emulators were legal, then you would be able to get them through
> retail channels, but you CAN'T do that with the exception of licensed
> ones.
>
There are a number on non-licensed emulators available for sale in the
HMV just down the road from where I work. They are available to buy
on their own, or along with a number of licenced games. There are
emulators for the Amiga, Spectrum, Atari ST and Commodore 64.
Tim (tm)
Raymond McKeithen II
"guy-jin" <gu...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:774e24ad.02102...@posting.google.com...news:<3DB334EF...@mindspring.com>...
> > Chakan wrote:
> > > Well, if you're going to be playing Genesis games through an emulator
> > > (and some of us have to, taking screens, etc. without owning a cool
> > > gfx card), you might as well be doing it the most faitful/comfortable
> > > way possible.
> >
> > There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for using an ILLEGAL Genesis emulator.
>
> You are insane. Why would Sega, much less you, care that people are
> emulating games that are no longer being sold?
If you really think Sega doesn't care, you're the one who's "insane."
Why don't you ask Sega and see what they say?
Why don't you check Nintendo's webpages for what they say?
snoob schreef
> Actually, my favorite racer for tuning is Tokyo Xtreme Racer 2.
Thats my favorite racer ever! Seriously I spend hours and hours on that game
and I still play it after 2 years.
I guess its also the tokyo thing, its a place I really want to visit so
playing the game is kinda like a little taste of the city.
Charles Doane
Yes, you *do* have to know several things.
Does "click" mean a left or a right click? Of course it means a
left click, but only someone who knows how to use a computer would
know that.
How do you know what your version of Windows is? You'd have to
know to open "My Computer", click on "Help" and "About Windows"
to find that out. They all look the same except for WinXP.
How do you know how to "Download the program"? Do you open the
file or save it to disk? If you save it to disk, save it where?
How do you "Run the program"? That instruction is pretty vague.
"Follow the steps"? Those steps aren't any simpler than the ones
before, which DO REQUIRE COMPUTER KNOWLEDGE.
Haven't you ever met a computer illiterate before? I was trying
to show a 911 dispatcher, who is normally a very bright young
lady and fluent in three languages, how to use the NT 4.0 machine
which is the heart of a Motorola Centracom Gold Elite dispatch
position. She was used to a much older system, one which had no
computer and she had never seen Windows in her life. She did not
know that the "X" button closed a Window. She did not know how
to use a mouse. She asked if there was any help she could get to
and I absently said "use the help key", meaning "F1". She didn't
know what "F1" was. She got upset at the password screen because
no matter what she typed all she got was the "*" to appear.
She'd never seen or used hypertext and asked why some words were
blue.
All of this may seem funny to you, but while you may be able to
use a computer, I doubt that you're fluent enough in three
languages to help frantic callers get the emergency help that
they need. Different people are literate in different things
and you have no call disparaging anybody whom you think knows
less than you do about computers.
Besides, that somebody ain't me anyway. I've been using Windows
since it was called Dosshell. I've worked on mainframe computers
made by Sperry, Integrated Micro Products, and Perkin-Elmer to
name just a few. I've forgotten more about computers than you'll
ever learn, laughing boy. I started hating the things when they
became work. I'll take money to work on 'em, but I'm not going
to ever play games on one again.
Charles Doane
That's not a licensed store, that's out of the back of somebody's
truck. Those are bootlegs. In case you were out to lunch in the
eighties and nineties, Commodore and Atari are out of business.
They aren't giving licenses to anything. Atari is owned by
Infogrames now and I'm not sure who owns what's left of Commodore.
Just because you can find an unlicensed business selling unlicensed
goods doesn't mean that they're legit or even legal. I can go to
Mexico right now and buy a bootleg Rolex for five bucks. It's not
a real Rolex, and if it runs it won't run long, but hey, it's in a
foreign store so it must be legit, right? Puhleaze. Everybody
knows that only American stores are honest.
ZoqFotPik
> I do sometimes insult others, but only in response to a perceived wrong.
Key word: "perceived".
> If a game is $50, it takes me a bit over an hour of working to make that
> much money. I've already put in my time. I've already made my investment.
Sorry, but you will not find a game that does not require some
investment of time. It is the nature of the hobby. You will spend
hours upon hours playing a game but you will not spend five minutes or
so setting it up? Seems to me you are not being entirely honest
here...
> Many stores (I'd daresay most) won't take returns on open PC software for
> obvious reasons. Pirates would just go to the store, buy the software,
> install it and then return it because they don't need the installation
> discs anymore. The store would be getting almost every soft they sold
> returned if they were to allow that.
Not really, no. Pirates are not as numerous as you claim, and most PC
games require the original disc to run anyway.
> PC developers play games on the specs of their software all the time
> and I for one am totally sick of it. The worst game they play is
> "Minimum System Requirements" and "Recommended System Requirements".
> For example, the popular FPS game "Duke Nukem 3D" claims that a
> 486 with 8MB of RAM will run it. It'll run like crap, but it'll
> run. Want SVGA graphics? Uh-oh, you'll need a Pentium and 16MB
> to do that. The old bait-and-switch is alive and well in the
> PC gaming world. That ticks me off.
There is no "bait and switch". The meaning of "minimum" as opposed to
"recommended" should be obvious to anyone.
> I used to LIKE PC games back in the Commodore 64/Atari 800 days
> of yore. The big complaint back then was that the systems weren't
> compatible. Which they weren't, same as the PS2 wouldn't ever be
> reading a Gamecube disc, but at least they were UNIFORM in their
> differences. I can't even name a PC standard anymore.
Direct X. You have only yourself to blame for your ignorance.