Rust: A growing concern...
BelPowerslave
beyond-moronic to buy games when one is unemployed...but you know how it
goes when you find a Genesis game you don't own, at a price you can't
believe.
Out of the carts, one just simply wouldn't work. Starting from the
beginning, let me say that I clean *every* cart-based game before
slamming it in to any given system. Now, once I've cleaned them(and
they've dried) I generally just go with it...I don't really examine them
that closely unless they just simply don't work. The few times that I've
had a cart not work...it's been the same issue: Rust on the contacts.
The killer is that I don't notice this until *after* I've slammed it in
to the system...which leads me to another question I have. Here we go:
1. Is there anything that can be done about a cart with rust on the
contacts? Are there any rust removers that could be used that *wouldn't*
harm the rom chip/contacts or the system that it's being inserted in to?
2. Can inserting rusty carts in to a system lead to the system's cart
slot beginning to rust? I guess what the real question is, can rust
chips produce more rust on their own, or is it more of an age issue,
where the metal begins to wear down and give way to rust?
3. Assuming that a system's cart slot begins to rust, can it just simply
be replaced...or does the entire board have to be replaced?
Man, I hate rust...
Bel
--
Whip Ass Gaming: http://www.whipassgaming.com/
"With no possible contact to the outside world you begin your adventure,
ready to accomplish your mission, praying to return alive."
- Powerslave
Kendrick Kerwin Chua
BelPowerslave <b...@whipassgaming.com> wrote:
<snip>
>1. Is there anything that can be done about a cart with rust on the
>contacts? Are there any rust removers that could be used that *wouldn't*
>harm the rom chip/contacts or the system that it's being inserted in to?
In general, most electronic-cleaning solvents should resolve the corrosion
problem pretty handily. It's just an advanced form of the stuff that
normally occurs with oxidation, so if you're lucky you can remove what
amounts to a surface layer with just a pencil eraser. If you prefer
something chemical rather than mechanical, a light rub with WD40 followed
by a gentle scrub with isopropanol alcohol has the same effect. Note that
you want to put the chemicals on your cleaning surface, and not spray it
directly on the cart contacts.
>2. Can inserting rusty carts in to a system lead to the system's cart
>slot beginning to rust? I guess what the real question is, can rust
>chips produce more rust on their own, or is it more of an age issue,
>where the metal begins to wear down and give way to rust?
Technically, it's not rust, but cuprous oxide. Even if it were rust, by
itself it won't transfer corrosion to other metals unless it's soaking
wet. You're not really accelerating the normal oxidation process against
the cart slot with insertion.
>3. Assuming that a system's cart slot begins to rust, can it just simply
>be replaced...or does the entire board have to be replaced?
You can replace the slot, but you can also clean it. Radio Shack used to
make these cards with a soft, two-sided pthalate plastic edge that would
scrape off the corrosion in the slot. You can get the same effect by
wrapping some thin plastic around the edge of a credit card and gently
rubhbing it up and down in the slot about three or four times.
-KKC, who should really get back to work now.
--
-- "Very long easy right, | kendrick @ |
baby!" | io . com | http://www.io.com/~kkc
rob.o...@gmail.com
methods. They work, but roughing up the metal surface on the cart
contacts increases the surface area which makes it more likely that
the corrosion will form quicker and sooner than the last time. A
decade between cleanings is ok, but imagine having to clean a cart
every time you use it (us Gen/MD folks might start to feel like front
loading NES owners :-).
Solvent cleaning is a better option, IMO.
Long term protection of cartridges (I'm talking decades) is still an
issue the collecting community has yet to crack. Most carts use
copper or aluminum for the contacts which will oxidize. Gold is king,
but replacing each contact with gold is is a bit ludicrous. I guess
there's the same issues with any collecting hobby. Perhaps a cheap
solution for creating oxygen-less temperature controller environments
will be invented in the future. :-)
I think CD and CD game collectors are in for a nasty surprise in
another 20-30 years. Most carts will still probably work unless you
live near the ocean or the Dead Sea.
Ted
snip
> Technically, it's not rust, but cuprous oxide. Even if it were rust, by
> itself it won't transfer corrosion to other metals unless it's soaking
> wet. You're not really accelerating the normal oxidation process against
> the cart slot with insertion.
If it is cuprous oxide, it does transfer between materials. This is
known as bronze disease on artifacts, and can destroy large quantities
of materials with copper in them. Bronze disease can begin when a
chloride and moisture are present with bronze or otherwise copper
containing material. The cuprous oxide then acts like a catalyst to
continue creating more of itself as long as there is moisture present as
well; if it transfers to another material, it will begin the bronze
disease on the new material.
nathanallan
I tend to use a small amount of TV tuner cleaner on the tip of a q-
tip, then dry it off very well. A VERY small amount, just enough to
get it wet, while keeping the carts edge-down. If that stuff gets in
the cart it could cause lots of damage really quick. On cart slots I
use a plastic card and a cloth with alcohol. So far so good.
Kendrick Kerwin Chua
Doesn't the presence of an electric current during usage tend to prevent
the accumulation of chlorides? I was always under the impression that
effect was a result of exposure to all the salts and minerals present as a
result of being buried in the ground, rather than just plain oxidation.
Not trying to be combative about it or anything. But I'm familiar with
bronze disease from the years when I was thinking about archaeology, and I
don't think all those dangers apply directly to electrical contacts on
PCBs. On the other hand, who know what cheap alloys people have been using
on cartridge contacts over the years. And I've seen more than one game
system upside-down in the dirt.
-KKC, up too early.
Ted
> In article <NbSdnbC6RNhgU4jX...@earthlink.com>,
> Ted <nospam...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> Kendrick Kerwin Chua wrote:
>> snip
>>> Technically, it's not rust, but cuprous oxide. Even if it were rust, by
>>> itself it won't transfer corrosion to other metals unless it's soaking
>>> wet. You're not really accelerating the normal oxidation process against
>>> the cart slot with insertion.
>> If it is cuprous oxide, it does transfer between materials. This is
>> known as bronze disease on artifacts, and can destroy large quantities
>> of materials with copper in them. Bronze disease can begin when a
>> chloride and moisture are present with bronze or otherwise copper
>> containing material. The cuprous oxide then acts like a catalyst to
>> continue creating more of itself as long as there is moisture present as
>> well; if it transfers to another material, it will begin the bronze
>> disease on the new material.
>
> Doesn't the presence of an electric current during usage tend to prevent
> the accumulation of chlorides? I was always under the impression that
> effect was a result of exposure to all the salts and minerals present as a
> result of being buried in the ground, rather than just plain oxidation.
Initially there needs to be a chloride; but once the bronze disease is
present it spreads itself without a chloride (tho it needs moisture).
>
> Not trying to be combative about it or anything. But I'm familiar with
> bronze disease from the years when I was thinking about archaeology, and I
> don't think all those dangers apply directly to electrical contacts on
> PCBs. On the other hand, who know what cheap alloys people have been using
> on cartridge contacts over the years. And I've seen more than one game
> system upside-down in the dirt.
I don't see any reason why electrical contacts would be immune to bronze
disease, altho if they were in constant use I'd expect there to be
little moisture to propagate it. People strip coins with electrolysis to
get rid of bronze disease, and if they miss some of it it will still
return in the presence of moisture; electricity doesn't break down the
cuprous oxide, and the only place for the molecules to go in a system
would be between the contacts. And bronze disease can jump from coin to
coin in collections.
The question, I suppose would be how you get chlorides to the contacts
in the first place. With artifacts, it happens through ground salts or
later contamination. With games, I'd suspect it has more to do with
fingers greasy from salty chips, followed by a damp basement.
Of course, the corrosion could also be some other form of oxidation.
Natural protective patinas develop on stripped bronze over time in the
air; it could happen to PCB contacts as well. Would that tend to collect
on the system contacts and be stripped from the cart contacts, based on
where the electricity is? If so, the BD would tend to jump in the same
direction.
BelPowerslave
> problem pretty handily. It's just an advanced form of the stuff that
> normally occurs with oxidation, so if you're lucky you can remove what
> amounts to a surface layer with just a pencil eraser. If you prefer
> something chemical rather than mechanical, a light rub with WD40 followed
> by a gentle scrub with isopropanol alcohol has the same effect. Note that
> you want to put the chemicals on your cleaning surface, and not spray it
> directly on the cart contacts.
I don't know what the deal is with this Turrican cart then because I've
tried alcohol and pencil erasers, the rust-like substance is still all
over the contacts. :( It was only $3...but still.
> Technically, it's not rust, but cuprous oxide.
That's a relief. I don't know what I'd do if I rusted out my Genesis!
> Even if it were rust, by
> itself it won't transfer corrosion to other metals unless it's soaking
> wet. You're not really accelerating the normal oxidation process against
> the cart slot with insertion.
Good to know!
> You can replace the slot, but you can also clean it. Radio Shack used to
> make these cards with a soft, two-sided pthalate plastic edge that would
> scrape off the corrosion in the slot. You can get the same effect by
> wrapping some thin plastic around the edge of a credit card and gently
> rubhbing it up and down in the slot about three or four times.
I've got some Genesis cart-slot cleaners, I just wasn't sure if by using
them I was just simply pushing the stuff further in to the slot rather
than actually cleaning it out. I appreciate this info!
Bel
--
Whip Ass Gaming: http://www.whipassgaming.com/
"The time has now come...to prove you’re the best,
to crush your enemies...to win the tournament."
- Announcer, Unreal Tournament
BelPowerslave
> methods. They work, but roughing up the metal surface on the cart
> contacts increases the surface area which makes it more likely that
> the corrosion will form quicker and sooner than the last time. A
> decade between cleanings is ok, but imagine having to clean a cart
> every time you use it (us Gen/MD folks might start to feel like front
> loading NES owners :-).
Word.
> Solvent cleaning is a better option, IMO.
>
> Long term protection of cartridges (I'm talking decades) is still an
> issue the collecting community has yet to crack. Most carts use
> copper or aluminum for the contacts which will oxidize. Gold is king,
> but replacing each contact with gold is is a bit ludicrous. I guess
> there's the same issues with any collecting hobby. Perhaps a cheap
> solution for creating oxygen-less temperature controller environments
> will be invented in the future. :-)
What is the ideal temperature for carts and whatnot...I mean, do they
have any real breaking points other than extreme cold or heat?
> I think CD and CD game collectors are in for a nasty surprise in
> another 20-30 years. Most carts will still probably work unless you
> live near the ocean or the Dead Sea.
What about Texas?
Bel
--
Whip Ass Gaming: http://www.whipassgaming.com/
"We'll meet again...in Hell"
- Cobra, The Space Adventure
BelPowerslave
> tip, then dry it off very well. A VERY small amount, just enough to
> get it wet, while keeping the carts edge-down. If that stuff gets in
> the cart it could cause lots of damage really quick. On cart slots I
> use a plastic card and a cloth with alcohol. So far so good.
Hmmmmm, what is this "TV Tuner cleaner"? Do you mean something like
Windex or whatnot?
Bel
--
Whip Ass Gaming: http://www.whipassgaming.com/
"The Clan has really evolved, instead of wearing sheets they just wear
cowboys hats now"
- Caesar, The Caesar & Chuy Show
nathanallan
gets rid of any kind of oxidation.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103700
works great. Just have to remember to wipe it all off, too.
BelPowerslave
> gets rid of any kind of oxidation.
>
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103700
>
> works great. Just have to remember to wipe it all off, too.
Interesting, will have to give it a shot! Thanks for the link.
Bel
--
Whip Ass Gaming: http://www.whipassgaming.com/
"Wait a minute, I know what my fortune is...it's partying!"
- Chris Pontius, Jackass: The Movie