There once was a developer and this was good.  Then for some
unknown reason this developer felt is necessary to subject the planet to
pain, frustration, and misery....thus began the making of the Playstation
controller.

        What the hell was Sony smoking to think this controller was a
"good thing".  The controller feels too small in my hand, and those two
protrusions dig into my hand.  The buttons are ok, however the four main
button are aligned as follows:

                                        o
                                      o   o
                                        o

which is all fine and dandy, except they are labelled with a symbol of a
square, triangle, a circle and an X.  This sorta boggles the mind.  With
the Saturn, 3DO, Genesis, and SNES (excluding the SNES reversal of A and
B), the buttons are labelled with letters and in alphabetical order, so
when you are playing you can remember where a button is....the logic
behind remember where the "square button" is lost on me.  Sure you will
get used to it, but tell me why they would screw up a simple concept.  
However, this isn't the controllers biggest flaw....that crowning
achivement goes to the "pad" itself.  Yes it is a pad, with four raised
"bumps" on it.....this would be fine, however the "brains" at Sony
decided to encase the pad IN the controller casing, leaving only the four
"bumps" poking through the casing...which look like psudo-buttons.  IT
SUCKS!  Not since getting my SNES have I been so disappointed with a
controller.  This hunk o' crap is really lousy!  Flowing moves like
semi-circles are not easy to do and even with a lot of practice I still
have lots of trouble doing them reliably.

        As for the rest of the machine...well here it is.  It is
small...about the same footprint (I stole that saying from some magazine)
as a magazine and about as thick as, say 7 Game Pro magazines.  Set up
was similar to the Saturn with no hitches.  Then I notice...NO INTERNAL
BATTERY!!!!  I paid pretty well the same amount for my Saturn with VF as
I did for the Playstation and Toshinden (which I had to buy
separately...'cuz the Playstation has no pack in).  The absence of the
battery means I have to fork out MORE money for a memory card if I want
to save games!  What a gip!  Also for the same amount of $$ you don't get
a cartridge slot which I'm sure will be an asset to the future of the Saturn.

        I ran the demo disk that came with it and the first thing I
noticed was that the FMV playback looked clearer...which is
great....however, I personally am getting sick of FMV....if I wanna watch
a movie I'll rent one!

        The games on the DEMO were mixed and there are 4 playable demos.  
The first ESPN Extreme Games, takes Road Rash and puts it in four new
modes: inline skates, skateboard, bike, and ludge (that snow thingy...I
have aweful spelling.)  Demo looked GREAT, hopefully the full game is
faster.  Jumping, ducking, punching, kicking - No problems here.

        The next demo was for Jumping Flash....a Doom style platform
games.  The graphics, music and controls sucked.  Neat idea...however
Rise of the Triad, Dark Forces, Doom and the likes have pretty well done
everything that was done here, only looking much better.  The polygon
badguys looked bad, as did most of the game. (blech!!).

        Next was Toshinden...which I will review below, since I bought
the full version.

        The final playable demo was for Wipeout which is a futuristic,
hovering racing game....sorta felt like Hi-Octane on the PC.   Looks
great, kinda sluggish.  I'll wait and see the finished product.

        The other demos were just for viewing and most contained FMV and
not a lot of game footage.

        Toshinden....hmm.....it look GREAT (standing still).  The sound
is ok, I didn't think it was anything wonderful and of course due to the
pad, the controls suck! (yeah I might get "used" to it....but why should
I have to suffer from a bad controller!)  The game itself borrows heavily
from VF, but I think it doesn't have as many frames.  You have a weak and
fierce slash (TRIANGLE AND SQUARE) and a weak and fierce kick (CIRCLE and
X - see my point)  Each person doesn't have nearly the same depth of
moves as VF and I didn't think they were as cool either.  Toshinden has
adopted the Street Fighter/MK idea of projectiles in combat.  I
personally think projectiles should be left out of combat games as it
keeps you far away from each other and the entire game becomes a shooting
match.  VF was great for intense, in-your-face, fighting, something that
is lost in Toshinden.  The BEST thing I thought Toshinden gave you was the
ability to move around you opponent.  With the use of the top buttons on
that basterized controller you can move into and out of the screen which
makes for some interesting moves.  This actually could be incorperated  
into future VF games quite nicely.

        Well that's about it for the Playstation.  I wasn't nearly as
impressed as when I got my Saturn and if I wasn't opening up a Video Game
retail store, I don't think I would have even got a Playstation.  

        Remember....looks are superficial, it is games that make a
machine.  My SNES has "better hardware" than my Genesis....but I have
far more games for my Genesis and play it far more often than my SNES
because the games are FAR superior for the most part.

        There it is.....take it all with a grain a salt.  I am admittedly
pro-SEGA (especially now that I learned I WILL be getting VF remix after
all).  I felt I was being pretty honest!

        Any questions....mail me :)

                                  -POOF-

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.video.sega: 10-Sep-95 Re: A Saturn owner
buys a P.. by Tom Mulc...@ix.netcom.co

Yeah but there should be a point on the joypad that lets you do a
diagonal move without pressing two points.  The Sony control pad has
four direction buttons...in order to do a diagonal movement, you must
press two.  For example...down-left, you must press both down and left
buttons.  Maybe I'm just used to the Saturn control pad, but I was able
to do special moves (fireball) for Street Fighter:The Movie on the
Saturn very easily once I got the timing.  I have played Toshiden for
20+ Hours and still can't get a special move (fireball) consistently.  I
have better luck when I don't even try...like doing a bunch of circling
movements and pressing buttons.  I firmly believe this to be because
there's no diagonal point on the joypad.  

Come to think of it, even the SNES was easier to use although it's very
similar to the PSX's.  That's because it had a center point that
connected all four direction pads...which allowed you to center your
thumb in the joypad and get diagonals much easily.

I dunno...this point's probably not important as hopefully third parties
will come out with their own designs..and with most games, this is not
an issue.  I just think that the Sony's one detracts from gameplay which
again is just my opinion.

Brian

           What the hell was Sony smoking to think this controller was a
   "good thing".  The controller feels too small in my hand, and those two

Feels fine in my hand; My friends prefer the larger "Professional" pad, tho'

   when you are playing you can remember where a button is....the logic
   behind remember where the "square button" is lost on me.  Sure you will

Wow, I've had it for a whole day, and I've already "memorized" which button
is which--

   controller.  This hunk o' crap is really lousy!  Flowing moves like
   semi-circles are not easy to do and even with a lot of practice I still
   have lots of trouble doing them reliably.

This is where you're wrong-- on the psx pads it's MUCH easier to do a
forward and then backward (without an arc) than on the snes/genesis pads; you
don't mistakenly arc up or down when you do this-- doing arcs did make my
thumb abnormally sore, tho' because the casing would rub up against my
digit.  BUT, then again, after one whole day I was able to do Fo's Mystic
attack very reliably (foreward arc-back strong punch)

   was similar to the Saturn with no hitches.  Then I notice...NO INTERNAL
   BATTERY!!!!  I paid pretty well the same amount for my Saturn with VF as

Yeah, but the overall memory system was better than the Saturn, with the
ability to copy from one card to another and being able to organize saved
games -- but there are no Role Playing games as of yet, so the memory system
is basically worthless.

   separately...'cuz the Playstation has no pack in).  The absence of the
   battery means I have to fork out MORE money for a memory card if I want

Yeah, but in the long-run it'll be best because of the ability to shuffle
the data and the upgradablility of games (ie, from a first RPG to a second
one--)

   a cartridge slot which I'm sure will be an asset to the future for Saturn

It does have a parralell port and a serial port, tho'  (I guess for additional
storage, and the combat cable plugs into the serial port)

   great....however, I personally am getting sick of FMV....if I wanna watch
   a movie I'll rent one!

Canned response, "If it's better, I don't need it"-- the FMV was impressive,
and it's not trying to show how good the FMV is, but how powerful the graphic
processor is.  I agree, FMV isn't the determining factor of a system's
performance, but it is a _slight_ plus.  The FMV in ESPN X-treme was good, and
you could cancel it with a button press at any time.

<re: ESPN X-treme>
   have aweful spelling.)  Demo looked GREAT, hopefully the full game is
   faster.  Jumping, ducking, punching, kicking - No problems here.

Yeah, the game's good (the graphics are X-cellent for 1-player, but in 2-
player it seems to peek out, and the screen re-draws in front of you on
the split screen).  The 1-player has absolutly NO popup at ALL.

           The next demo was for Jumping Flash....a Doom style platform
   games.  The graphics, music and controls sucked.  Neat idea...however

Dude, you have to play a game before you make judgments on the controls--
that's all you bitch about;  OF COURSE different games use different controls
BTW, it's NOT Doom-style; it's real 3-D-- but be warned that it is VERY
cutsy and you have to really love platforms to stand a game so happy.

           The final playable demo was for Wipeout which is a futuristic,
   hovering racing game....sorta felt like Hi-Octane on the PC.   Looks
   great, kinda sluggish.  I'll wait and see the finished product.

I was blown away by this game--  I thought the music was WAY TOO low.  The
scenery is very well done; It did have a sluggish feeling to it, but that
may be an intentional side-effect of having hover craft; who knows.

   from VF, but I think it doesn't have as many frames.  You have a weak and
   fierce slash (TRIANGLE AND SQUARE) and a weak and fierce kick (CIRCLE and

Yeah, that's the _real_ problem with the symbols, posting on the internet
there are no corresponding keys for the buttons.  :-)

<snipped opinions on Toshinden-- everyone is entitled to their own>

           There it is.....take it all with a grain a salt.  I am admittedly
   pro-SEGA (especially now that I learned I WILL be getting VF remix after
   all).  I felt I was being pretty honest!

Yeah, you were-- except for the control-hatred
These systems are not the definitive "to end all gaming" systems, and both
do have pros and cons.  Fortunatly, as EA's president put it, "The gamer is
the only winner in this battle (of systems)"

:D

--
   -Ink   <Idaho State University>   http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai
                Consultant  *  System Operator  *   Student

Hello,

        I too own a Saturn and bought a Playstation.  I have to agree about
most of what was said about the controllers.  The control pad (or lack there
of) is bad, plus the directional buttons they use instead are square and tend
to dig into my thumb after playing for a long time (like 8 hours of Toshinden).
Other than that I like the main system, as for the battery...its annoying but
it doesn't bother me that much.

        As far as toshinden goes.  Its pretty cool, graphically its awesome.
The controls for it do suck, partially becuase of the controllers, partially
because of the setup for the buttons.  All of the special moves require rolling
the direction in some form or another, this is almost impossible to do with
these controllers.  Although the computer has no problem doing them ;)  I would
have much preferred them using something more akin to VF with punch,punch,kick
or some such.

        Anyway, I think both systems are awesome.  If VF and Toshinden are both
on par concerning the amount of programming skill that went into them, I would
have to say that the Playstation has a faster graphics engine.  FMV seems the
same on both systems, no jerkiness on the Playstation that someone had posted
about before.

        Thanks,

        Ron.
--
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All opinions are mine alone.                        Dell Computer Corporation
                           "I post, therefore I am."

Interesting reviews. I am considering getting a Playstation so that I can get
new games when I want them. (I know, wait a few weeks for new Saturn games).

I have seen a 3rd party controller that has a D-PAD!!! Thats right, not the
button crap that comes from Sony. Anyway, since you have a PSX, you need
to find one of these and buy it. Only played a little with the PSX, but the
other controller is MUCH MUCH BETTER!!! (IMO).

Ken

In <42tri2$...@ccshst05.cs.uoguelph.ca> ipinn...@uoguelph.ca (Ian A Pinnell) writes:

 Ya either love'em or hate'em..  

 Don't know why they didn't use the logical config.. no biggie tho'.

 People who love the SNES pad(me!) will love the PS pad.  Even tho' they look quite
different they both have a similar feel.. small and secure in the hands.  I agree
circular moves for fighting games are tuff but who into fighting games doesn't have
the ol' 6button stick?  The directional button config is smart!  Don't tell me you
wanted a directional buttons like the Sega master system with one solid piece?!?!?!
The PS config let's you perform an exact diagonal EVERY time.  You can't do that
unless the L,R,U and D are promininent on the pad.  

Saturn.

 Duh, as if the lack of a cartridge port leaves the PS unexpandable.
You haven't looked at the back of the PS very closely have you?  Kinda
missed the serial, parallel and AV I/O ports on the back, hunh?

 Sluggish???  I don't think so.  Maybe you were hitting the wall every
2 seconds...

Dude, speak for yourself!  I've been playing my friends PSX all this
weekend.  I have had the WORST time trying to do ANY moves that require
semi-circles or back forward movements.  We put my Saturn up to next to
the PSX and played SF2 the Movie.  When it came down to it, we played the
Saturn version and shut the PSX down!  The controller was horrible.

How?  The Saturn uses a memory cartridge which I believe holds more
memory than a PSX card.  And besides, there is on board memory on the
Saturn, which the PSX has none.  So it's NOT better.

You can do the same with the Saturn, except that with the Saturn, you can
use the on-board memory as a buffer, or temp storage.  Makes it easier.

Ummm, that game is GARBAGE!  What did you see in it besides the ability
to rollerblade?  It was a horrible attempt at Road Rash with NO control
at all.

Mike Mullis
"ISH-KA-BOB!"
XAKP...@PRODIGY.COM

 Nothing wrong with having both...

 The Sony pad is a D-pad too. It just has part of it covered to look
like separate buttons.

--
 /*  Grant C. DeLorean  (gr...@right.net)  Right-Net Network Services
 /* 1995 Harley-Davidson FLHR   ElectraGlide Road King
 /* AMA Annual - H.O.G. Annual - NRA Life - IHMSA Life
 /* If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand.       */

 This I agree with, the PS pad isn't as bad as some are making it out
to be.

 This I have to disagree with. Yes, the PS memory system has good
points. But the Saturn can copy from built in memory to the cartridge
and from the cartridge to the main save RAM. The systems aren't that
different, except being able to copy whole carts at once and that the
Saturn comes with RAM initially.

 Being able to "shuffle" data isn't exclusive to either system.

--
 /*  Grant C. DeLorean  (gr...@right.net)  Right-Net Network Services
 /* 1995 Harley-Davidson FLHR   ElectraGlide Road King
 /* AMA Annual - H.O.G. Annual - NRA Life - IHMSA Life
 /* If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand.       */

On 10 Sep 1995, Ian A Pinnell wrote:

I've seen better controllers for the PlayStation...bigger alot more
ergonomic.  The tails are longer so that you can get a better grip on the
controller so that it doesn't just fly off your hand like the Sega and
Nintendo pads.

As for button arrangements...well, frankly, if you had to look down to
see which button to press, you're probably toast or breakfast for some
pixel alien.

The Genesis 6 button controller was no better...3 big buttons and 3 puny
buttons on top.

I agree with you on the Direction pad but again on this 3rd party pad..it
was good.

RAM cards have a definate advantage...it means I can take it with me to
my friend's Playstation and continue without having to lug my entire
system.  Of course it would be nice to have a battery or NVRAM in the
unit but I'd say the card is a good addition.

And the Playstation is $299, Toshinden is $59 at the local EB store, that
brings the total up to $358.  Hmmm, is my math wrong or is it still about
$40 cheaper than a Saturn before they started throwing in 3 games?

And anyway, some stores are offering a $70 rebate on games when you buy a PS.

Well...maybe one day you'll be renting discs for movies too.

There are actually alot of secret moves in Toshinden.  Personally prefer
Tekken...being able to continue attacking your opponent while they're
down adds alot of pressure <G>

On good addition I think you didn't mention is that the PlayStation is
probably the first game to have real video ports behind the damn thing.  
So I didn't have to pay for some stupid AV cable.  Unfortunately, they
took the S-VIDEO socket off the US version.

Well...I'd have to disagree with you here....I have a SNES, Genesis,
Genesis/LDA/CD and I spend more time on the GenesisLDA/CD (MegaLD/CD) and
the SNES than the plain Genesis...the graphics on the SNES and CD titles
are alot better...game play...well, I play what I like so no point comparing.

Being at E3 and talking to alot of developers and being a developer...I
think that all platforms have a strong and weak point.  What's most
important is what the customer likes.  We develop on both so I love them
both <G>

Check out some of the stuff for the PlayStation like MetalHawk...if you
like flight simulators...this one kicks butt!  The PS definately has an
edge on Head-on 3D simulations.

On the same note, Saturn as some pretty awesome stuff too. BTW, I don't
like the Saturn controller either and I think the steering wheel stinks <G>

Just comments and personal views :)

: I have seen a 3rd party controller that has a D-PAD!!! Thats right, not the
: button crap that comes from Sony. Anyway, since you have a PSX, you need
: to find one of these and buy it. Only played a little with the PSX, but the
: other controller is MUCH MUCH BETTER!!! (IMO).
:                                                                      

The best controller I've used with the PS is the controller made by
ASCIIware.  It looks sorta like a Saturn controller with a REAL D-PAD,
not that horrible controller which comes with the system.  Had autofire
on all buttons and even slo-mo.  This one runs around $30.

The ASCIIware arcade stick, which runs around $50, also is getting many
rave reviews from those who've used it.

--
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Store Signing                       E3-321B
(708) 286-8010                      Hoffman Estates, IL 60179

On 10 Sep 1995, Ian A Pinnell wrote:

I really like the controllers. I do have a bit of trouble getting
diagonals off, but I've heard if you do the same fix that you do with the
3DO controller, it works much better. Other than that, I think they are
wonderful. Very comfortable. As far as those two "protrusions", are you
sure you are holding it right?! ^_^

FMV is not bad unless it's used in the wrong was, ie as the game, not
helping the game. RPGs with FMV cinema's are a wonderous thing!

That's totally unfair. Jumping Flash is NOT trying to be Doom, or Rise,
or Dark Forces, or any of those other games. It is basically along the
same lines as Bug, a 3-D Platform, and I personally think it's one of the
funnest, and most creative, games I've ever seen. I love the graphics,
they are damn cute! ^_^

     Shidoshi    ^_^           " Death brings Life the beauty it
shido...@nfinity.nfinity.com             always hopes to obtain. "     - Me
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------------- -
         * Creator *         | Pandora . Belldandy . Nakoruru . Alis . Sofia
 PhanStar 4 FAQ      v0.7.0  | Celes . Marle . Lucca . Rose . Nausicaa . Dan
 PlayNation fanzine  v1.0    | BA Toshinden . Phan Star 1&4 . Chrono Trigger
 US PSX GameList     v1.3    | SmShow2 . SF Alpha . Mrnda Sx Gdn . S, Tammy!
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------------- -
OTH (Xenon) Of++++ Os+++ OY-- OvV (Not enough) O.+ O# OM- Oc++++ <otakucode>

: >        What the hell was Sony smoking to think this controller was a
: >"good thing".  The controller feels too small in my hand, and those two
: >protrusions dig into my hand.  The buttons are ok, however the four main
: >button are aligned as follows:

: >                                        o
: >                                      o   o
: >                                        o

: Interesting reviews. I am considering getting a Playstation so that I can get
: new games when I want them. (I know, wait a few weeks for new Saturn games).

: I have seen a 3rd party controller that has a D-PAD!!! Thats right, not the
: button crap that comes from Sony. Anyway, since you have a PSX, you need
: to find one of these and buy it. Only played a little with the PSX, but the
: other controller is MUCH MUCH BETTER!!! (IMO).
:                                                                            
: Ken

  I played Playstation for the first time today (Tosinden) and I thought
the control pad was really good.  The little handle things were a little
too short, but for the directional pad, it's almost identical to SNES
(the best directional pad ever) and a WHOLE lot better than that crap on
the Saturn.  The only reason it isn't QUITE as good as the SNES is
because the direction buttons are physically separated by the plastic,
and it'll cause a few more blisters.  As for the responsiveness and the
"feel" of the button presses, it's just as good as the SNES's.

The Saturn pad, on the other hand, is the worst thing I've ever used.  
You don't get that feel of the button having been pressed, and there's no
clear separation from the diagonals to the up/down and left/right
directions.  Moves that require you to "tap" directions are almost
impossible.  The two buttons on the top (like the SNES L,R buttons)
almost don't move so you can't tell if you've pressed them or not, and
that really bugged me.
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