The X-Box is coming...
Darien Allen
X-Box Coming Fall 2001
Microsoft will take its X-Box console onto retail shelves in just over
18 months, pitching it directly against Sony's PlayStation2. MCV can
reveal that the US software giant held a secret meeting at its Seattle
HQ last month to outline its battle plan to a small band of
third-party software developers.
Microsoft held a secret X-Box summit in Seattle.
X-Box will be launched in the US by September 2001 and possibly in
Europe at the same time. Its software will not be compatible with PCs,
but the hardware will be branded Microsoft.
Its price could be as low as $149, if required, though it will be
heavily dependent upon Sony’s pricing on PlayStation2 at that time.
The royalty system will under-cut whatever licensing structure that is
being offered to PS2 software licensees. Sources have indicated that
the licensing fees may be structured in two ways, but both are
expected to be below $5 a disc. There has been no word whether or not
there will be a product approval process for software.
Attendees at the event were told that criteria will be set that are
likely to inhibit the total number of companies supporting the format
to around 30, rather than X-Box being an ”open” format like PC CD-ROM.
Technical specification (see boxout at right) will also be set high
against PS2.
In the meantime, Microsoft will work hard through the rest of this
year to prove to the software community and consumers alike that
standard PCs are already capable of outperforming the latest
generation of “closed box” consoles.
At Milia this week, Microsoft will unveil a series of new technology
demos. It is part of a collaboration with companies such as Nvidia,
AMD, ATI, Creative Labs and S3 to create a range of cutting edge
“showcase” titles for the Christmas 2000 market.
Microsoft's moves come at a time when full-price games sales for PC in
all major markets have stalled compared to the growth of video games.
In the UK, full-price PC's share of the software market has dropped
from 38 percent in 1996 to 28 percent last year.
*Microsoft's Milia demos will be unveiled at the Microsoft DirectX
Briefing, between 9am and noon on Thursday (February 17th) in
Auditorium A of the Palais Des Festivals, Cannes.
Microsoft could not be reached for official comment.
The facts from Seattle
US launch targeted for September 2001
Will carry the Microsoft brand, no Dell or Compaq.
Price point of $149-$349 depending on the price of PS2 at that time.
Software royalty scheme to undercut PS2 licensing.
Only around 30 third parties being targeted.
X-Box titles will not work on PCs.
DVD built in and fully compatible with DVD movies.
Operating system will be single-application, Windows-derived.
56K modem
At least 450MHz CPU (talk of 800MHz still possible)
64MB RAM (including VRAM)
4-8GB Hard disk
------------------------
Darien Allen
ICQ-2927081
Phillip Roncoroni
Damn... I don't give a shit.
--
GoodCow =)
Billy's Comics - http://pages.prodigy.net/goodcow007/index2.htm
LAST UPDATED: February 2, 2000
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Benjamin
>
> http://www.mcvnow.com/servlets/Article?articleId=1631
>
> X-Box Coming Fall 2001
...And the call goes out to Jeff Minter...
<snerp>
Benjamin
Muskie
Can't wait for the X-box!
----Muskie
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Steven L Cox
<goodc...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>Damn... I don't give a shit.
Whether you're a console fan, a PC fan, or both, you *better* pay
attention. This is going to have a major effect on the gaming market
whethr you care or not :)
-s-
Ben Sanders
i know but with the date they have set the market will already be saturated
with next gen consoles (which incidentally have proven track records).
Not to mention that i could not sit in my front room with a box that has
Microshaft on it....... i get more than enough when i turn my computer on :(
So basically i hope microsoft invest loadsa money in the project then lose
it all...
LOL
--
Ben
Darien Allen <darienNO...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:lcuaasocre5j4f145...@4ax.com...
> http://www.mcvnow.com/servlets/Article?articleId=1631
>
> X-Box Coming Fall 2001
>
Skoiboy
If anything, this will make the console gaming market more competitive.
It'll force prices of systems/games down and spark companies to release
better products. Hopefully the competition wont drive companies away
like what happened to Saturn. If you think about it, Sega's in the worst
position right now (least powerful system) and if they don't significantly
shape up, they could be left behind.
______________________________________________________________________________
Star Wars Jumbled Quotes:
ANH
Obi Wan: "If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can
possibly imagine"
Vader: "I don't know, I can imagine quite a bit"
ESB
Leia: "I love you"
Han: "Then I'll see you in hell!"
Ben
conANDave <cona...@email.com> wrote in message
news:eXVYAIZd$GA.255@cpmsnbbsa05...
> "Darien Allen" <darienNO...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:lcuaasocre5j4f145...@4ax.com...
>
> Hmm... this definately sounds like Microsoft. Maybe they'll make X-Box
free
> until Nintendo and Sega both get eaten up by bigger companies and Sony
drops
> out of the market.
/Heavy on the sarcasm/
How could a company possibly be allowed to do such a thing :)
have fun
--
Ben
conANDave
kwarlord
Steven L Cox <ste...@vt.edu> wrote in message
news:38a5a46d...@news.vtacs.com...
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:35:20 -0500, "Phillip Roncoroni"
> <goodc...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Damn... I don't give a shit.
>
> Whether you're a console fan, a PC fan, or both, you *better* pay
> attention. This is going to have a major effect on the gaming market
> whethr you care or not :)
>
> -s-
yeah...the final nail in the coffin for all gamers...
curse you, microshaft...
--
___________________________________________________
my favorite video game quotes:
"POWER OVERWHELMING" Protoss Archon, Starcraft
"Come, power of the Universe! Dragon-King slice!" Gadwin, Grandia
"I'm sorry Mario, but our Princess is in another castle...just kidding!"
Princess Toadstool teasing Mario at the end of Super Mario 3.
my first Website
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/3726/index.html
My very own RPG site!
http://members.tripod.com/~kwarlord/index.html
Some FAQs of mine (because the ones I was looking for plain sucked!)
http://members.tripod.com/~kwarlord/Forsaken_64_v12.txt
http://members.tripod.com/~kwarlord/Mario_Party.txt
http://members.tripod.com/~kwarlord/Gauntlet_Legends15.txt
http://members.tripod.com/~kwarlord/Grandia11.doc
___________________________________________________
Raymond McKeithen II
Steven L Cox <ste...@vt.edu> wrote in message
news:38a5a46d...@news.vtacs.com...
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:35:20 -0500, "Phillip Roncoroni"
> <goodc...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Damn... I don't give a shit.
>
> Whether you're a console fan, a PC fan, or both, you *better* pay
> attention. This is going to have a major effect on the gaming market
> whethr you care or not :)
>
Why should I "better" pay attention? I have no interest in marketplace
issues, only games.
In the US, *maybe* it'll be a success. In Japan (the only place that *I*
give a "$hit" about) incredibly unlikely. If I wanted to play US "PC style"
games I'd play PC games...
Why everyone assumes just because MS does something it'll automatically be a
success is beyond me. Anyone remember Bob?
--
Raymond
remove "suchiepai" for email
Peace and Soybeans!
X-Box is another Jaguar or 3DO...it's no threat. It's just a machine put
together by people with money, but no clue as to how the console market
works. Unless they've got Japanese 3rd Party Support, no one's going to
care.
Greg
=====================================================================
AOL Instant Messenger Handle: Parodius
=====================================================================
PLUG: Dilbert Season 2: Tues @ 9:30/8:30 c on UPN
NEXT EP: "The Assistant" - Dilbert gets promoted to management and
gets an annoying assistant voiced by Andy Dick. Tom Green cameo, too!
=====================================================================
Mark R.
>
> Excellent post.
>
> Can't wait for the X-box!
>
Nice to see someone has something positive to say about it (besides me
<G>). Purposfully written software on the specs I've seen will surprise
many by it's performance. Assuming we get some good games for the thing
it could give PS2 some competition in the marketplace, and easily keep
up with it or surpass it graphically.
Everybody has seen PC games written for what the majority have for
hardware. The majority is Chunk, or slightly better (with better parts
of course, quality wise). This will be a whole nother beast.
Should quiet some of the Wintel cynics.
We shall see.
Later
--
Mark R.
SPAM IS BAD, remove it from my E-Mail to reply!
Some/most/all may be IMO, you figure it out and
you may spell check it at your leasure.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you
are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Y2Bogus
"John Kitchar" <jkit...@netpci.com> wrote in message
news:884og...@enews4.newsguy.com...
> I wonder if EA will support it. That is, are they developing games early
> enough for XB launch or will they wait until it sells "5 million"?
They'll probably support it. As it stands, the Dreamcast is the only
next-gen system that EA isn't supporting.
Figment
at it. I sure hope the X-Box fails.
---------
Figment
"Darien Allen" <darienNO...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:lcuaasocre5j4f145...@4ax.com...
> http://www.mcvnow.com/servlets/Article?articleId=1631
> Its price could be as low as $149, if required,
<SNIP>
Jean McClain
Jeff Williams
news:8855kb$h6l$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net...
> Historically, the console race in any given generation has ended
up
> being a 2 man competition.
Market's a lot bigger now, though. This is a business that just passed the
movie industry last year in terms of gross revenue. The problem used to be
that with a small market, dividing sales up three ways would mean no profits
for anyone - meaning all three ended up going for the same audience,
spending as much money as they had on marketing, and eventually one company
would be driven out of the market. Nowadays I think it's pretty clear that
there are enough gamers of all types out there that at least three consoles
could be supported by the marketplace with all three manufacturers making a
profit (though a lot of people seem to be obssessed with who "wins" each
generation, when all the manufacturers really care about is making profits),
and by targeting more specific demographics. You already see this -
Nintendo goes after younger gamers and is positioning the Dolphin as a
gaming-only machine, Sega's going after somewhat older gamers than Nintendo
and is saying the DC is a game-only console too (though with online gaming
eventually), whereas Sony's going for the set-top box market and trying to
be all things to all people (I think this is going to backfire - they're
being way too broad). Microsoft will be going after all those people out
there that want to play PC games but can't afford the money for a real
high-end gaming PC. I think that, with the exception of Sony, if everybody
sticks to their own demographics and doesn't try to get too broad and
unfocused, everybody can make a profit. Sony's either going to take over
the world or fall flat on their face with the PS2; by going after basically
everybody, they're setting themselves up as a target that every other
manufacturer is aiming at. MS, Nintendo, and Sega are all going to be
gunning for Sony rather than competing amongst themselves, or just trying to
do their own thing.
This began with the whole Genesis/SNES thing (the
> NES was almost completely unopposed for most of it's life).
Actually, no it didn't - it began with the Atari 2600/Intellivision thing.
The 2 console thing was a constant since the 1970's - every time a third
console would be introduced, it would either die a quick death or force one
of the other systems into early retirement. But that was a different time.
> If history repeats itself, all but two of these powerhouses will
lose
> the console race, and it's hard to say who. Sega's new machine is already
> doing better than the Saturn ever did, and if they get the online play
working
> they'll have yet another selling point to entice gamers (and they won't
> require an expensive cable modem to do it). Sure, when all the new
machines
> come out it'll make things harder on Sega, but by then the Dreamcast will
have
> a sizable enough user base that the demand for Dreamcast games will still
be
> there, at least for a while ...
As long as they keep coming out with games like Crazy Taxi, the demand will
be there. Sega's probably going to end up 3rd or 4th in this race, but I
think it's a mistake to assume that means the DC will be a failure. I don't
think Sega ever expected to be #1; I think they expected to make a profit,
which they probably already are (they obviously are on each individual game
sale, but I think they've probably already cleared their R&D, marketing and
production costs as well). And I think they will continue to make a profit
as long as they keep releasing good games. I mean, the Genesis eventually
finished 2nd to the SNES, but Sega made a huge amount of money on that
system - in fact, they'd be nowhere without the Genesis. Profit is all that
matters, not whether you win the race.
> That brings us to the X-Box. It seems that the price point for
> Microsoft's system may be lower than the PS2 for a system with similar
> capability. The games may be the more American PC-style game than more
> Japanese oriented console style games, but is your average buyer going it
care
> if it means they can get lots of groovy eye candy for not much money?
X-Box will never provide the same kind of eye candy as the PS2 will. The
problem is it'll be running PC games, which are designed for the lowest
common denominator of PC machines. Nobody knows how MS's business model's
going to work exactly, but I think most likely all X-Box games will be
straight PC ports, if not exact PC games with no porting needed. It's
probably going to be possible for developers to develop strictly for the
X-Box to take advantage of its processing power, but I doubt any developers
will do that when there's already such a large market for regular PC gamers.
May as well not exclude all of them in designing X-Box games.
X-Box will have to survive on the strength of its games alone rather than on
their graphics, which is basically what the DC's going to have to do as
well. X-Box will have a big head start, though - it'll have thousands of
games already available at launch. I think it'll sell well enough to make a
profit, *if* MS doesn't do something stupid with the licensing, or in some
other way alienate developers or gamers from what they're used to dealing
with. MS doesn't know anything about video games, and inexperience never
helped anybody break into a well-established business.
Honestly, I'll wait and see what it's really like, but I might buy an X-box
if the price is right (say, $200 or so). I look at it this way - my
computer's getting a little old, and some of my newer games don't run too
well on it. I could upgrade my CPU, motherboard, and graphics card, for
about $700. Or, I could just buy an X-box instead and just use it to play
my PC games (and use my PC for regular PC stuff), with the added benefit of
not having to deal with driver issues or whatnot (hopefully), not to mention
being able to play my PC games from the couch.
--
// Jeff Williams
// ge...@nervhq.org
GalaPogoZ
So does this mean that the X-box won't play PC/Windows (DirectX) games
then?
The only way I thought the X-box "MAY" have been interesting was if it
could play all existing and future Windows (DirectX) games. If it
cannot, then I say... Who cares?? I mean I don't care about Microsoft
games, and all third parties that I care about will be on a console
(at least on PS2). If that is true, then I just don't see how it
could do well.
Then again Microsoft has a way of making crap sell.
NINTENDO-SEGA-SONY
there. I must admit I'm very excited about the X-Box. Competition is a
gamers best friend, so I hope they do well.
I will be getting a PS2 when the price drops a bit. I already have a
Dreamcast & will be building my game library this year. As for the
Dolphin, if it has the goods I will own one of them as well... God I
need to win the lottery to support this gaming habit. :)
NP - Cruisin' USA on N64
NLT - Danzig 6
-AMG-
NES-SNES-Saturn-Playstation-Dreamcast
N64__METALLICA-MEGADETH-DANZIG
MISFITS-BLACK SABBATH-BIOHAZARD
SAMHAIN-TESTAMENT-SLAYER
conANDave
news:IIrp4.8547$%M5.1...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
: >It's just a machine put
: >together by people with money, but no clue as to how the console market
: >works.
: Deja Vu... these very same words were pronounced by many analysts
: in-the-know some 5 years ago when a certain little company called Sony
: decided to develop a video game.
Let's reword that statement to "but no clue to how the entertainment
industry works". While I adamantly refuse to acknowledge Sony as a truly
full-fledged game consoler, as I regard Sega, Nintendo, Atari, SNK and their
likes as, Sony has Entertainment experience. It's made movies. It's made
games. It makes the stuff you watch movies and play video games on. Put 2
and 2 together. They had an idea.
Microsoft doesn't have a clue. It has an Operating System, an Office Suite,
a bunch of programs people complain all the time about, and a pair of
worthwile entertainment titles, "Flight Simulator" and "Entertainment Pack".
And I don't really plan on spending somewhere between $149-$349, depending
on what Sony is charging for the PS2 at the time MS decides to release it's
console, for what will probably be an unoriginal console, with these two
titles as it's only console-specific properties, and every other game for it
just an afterthought of a third party developer after finishing the same
game for DC, PS2, or Dolphin.
inter...@my-deja.com
Ford redesigned their Escort, Or When
the Macarena swept the world !!
>In article <lcuaasocre5j4f145...@4ax.com>,
> Darien Allen <darienNO...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> http://www.mcvnow.com/servlets/Article?articleId=1631
>
> X-Box Coming Fall 2001
>
> Microsoft will take its X-Box console onto retail shelves in just >over
>
> ------------------------
>
> Darien Allen
> ICQ-2927081
Muskie
100...@river.it.gvsu.edu>,
Peace and Soybeans! <col...@river.it.gvsu.edu> wrote:
>
> X-Box is another Jaguar or 3DO...it's no threat. It's just a machine
put
> together by people with money, but no clue as to how the console
market
to
> care.
>
> Greg
huh? Are you telling me Americans can't make good games? Are you
saying no one cares about games made by Americans?
Is Japanese 3rd party support essential to console buyers in the U.S.A.?
I don't understand where you are coming from.
The X-box will have it's online support right out of the box. Microsoft
has a HUGE gaming network.
A few stellar titles such as Half Life, Q3, The Sims, Falcon 5.0,
Thief, ect, could hook gamers for a long time. Add to that excellent
multiplayer support, and you have games with great replay value.
Alot of people I speak with just aren't that thrilled with alot of the
recent console games. It's kind of the "same old, same old". I think
online access will help alleviate the rut that console gaming currently
finds itself in.
---Muskie
John Kitchar
enough for XB launch or will they wait until it sells "5 million"?
JMK
Steven L Cox
<rfmc...@suchiepaijas.net> wrote:
>
>Steven L Cox <ste...@vt.edu> wrote in message
>news:38a5a46d...@news.vtacs.com...
>> On Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:35:20 -0500, "Phillip Roncoroni"
>> <goodc...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Damn... I don't give a shit.
>>
>> Whether you're a console fan, a PC fan, or both, you *better* pay
>> attention. This is going to have a major effect on the gaming market
>> whethr you care or not :)
>>
>
>Why should I "better" pay attention? I have no interest in marketplace
>issues, only games.
You wouldn't be posting on the issue or even reading this newsgroup if
you didn't keep up with the goings-on of the industry to some degree.
So why was it that you clicked on, read, and responded to a posting
called "the x-box is coming" otherwise?
>In the US, *maybe* it'll be a success. In Japan (the only place that *I*
>give a "$hit" about) incredibly unlikely. If I wanted to play US "PC style"
>games I'd play PC games...
This isn't a anti-/pro- PC/console conversation but it seems you have
taken it that way ! Microsoft will affect you as a US gamer, and
writing off the possibility of x-box entering the asian market
successfully is a little premature (albeit an unlikely event I agree).
Just keep your eyes open instead of closing your mind to the
possibilities.
>Why everyone assumes just because MS does something it'll automatically be a
>success is beyond me. Anyone remember Bob?
Who said anything about an automatic success? I guess you took "going
to have a major affect" as synonymous with "success" which it
incorrect. A spectacular failure on Microsoft's part will likewise
prove to change the industy. Suggestion: do more reading than
assuming :)
-s-
V. Equinox
From the information I've heard so far on the X-Box, it's really hard
to tell what's going to happen with it. It is true that by the time the X-Box
comes out, the PS2 will already have been out for at least a little while, and
the Dreamcast will have been gaining fans the whole time (though I seem to be
more optimistic about Sega's chances than a lot of people). I'm also looking
at the fact that Nintendo's machine may be coming out around the same time or
shortly after, that puts 4 big systems in the next-generation console race.
Historically, the console race in any given generation has ended up
being a 2 man competition. This began with the whole Genesis/SNES thing (the
NES was almost completely unopposed for most of it's life). Though a few
other systems like the TG-16 entered the market, none of them came close to
touching Sega or Nintendo. Then in the generation after that, you had the
3DO, then the Saturn, Playstation, and Nintendo 64. The 3DO never could get a
market hold, so for a while it was just Sega, Sony, and Nintendo. But the
industry just seemed to think that 3 was a crowd and Sega ended up taking the
fall. Now we're looking at Sega, Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo.
If history repeats itself, all but two of these powerhouses will lose
the console race, and it's hard to say who. Sega's new machine is already
doing better than the Saturn ever did, and if they get the online play working
they'll have yet another selling point to entice gamers (and they won't
require an expensive cable modem to do it). Sure, when all the new machines
come out it'll make things harder on Sega, but by then the Dreamcast will have
a sizable enough user base that the demand for Dreamcast games will still be
there, at least for a while ...
The specs on Sony's machine are enough to make any gamer drool, but
the inevitable high price will be enough to make all but the most hardcore
think twice. The fastest growing segment of the video game consumer market
are the casual gamers. These are people who enjoy video games, but it's not
their main pasttime and they don't want to pour a whole lot of money into it.
Will the casual gaming crowd see the PS2's price and opt for a cheaper
alternative?
That brings us to the X-Box. It seems that the price point for
Microsoft's system may be lower than the PS2 for a system with similar
capability. The games may be the more American PC-style game than more
Japanese oriented console style games, but is your average buyer going it care
if it means they can get lots of groovy eye candy for not much money? Also, PC
games are gaining popularity, but the main thing holding a lot of people back
is not having enough money to pour into a PC in order to be able to play all
the latest, 3D enhanced games. I think if MS can get a low price point and a
few games like a Tomb Raider or a Final Fantasy that will appeal to the
masses, they'll have a chance. And I think they know that, too. This all
hinges on getting the right balance between price and performance, and being
able to market it right. But if anybody has the resources to pour into doing
that, it's Microsoft.
The last competitor is Nintendo. I don't know much about the Dolphin
system yet other than that it will be DVD based, but this leads me to believe
that they have a shot, too. The big N's been waning lately, but this is a
company that's released one successful system after another (except for a
certain flop that rhymes with nirtual toy), has first party software that's
usually top notch, oh .. and owns the rights to a little game called Pokemon.
Really, looking at all this, I think it's too hard to say at this
point what's going to happen. There's a lot of money to be made in the video
game console industry, but it's also an industry that's notoriously hard to be
successful and stay successful in. Someone's going to get rich and someone's
going to go under. Looking at it right now, I can't tell you for sure who
it'll be.
-------------------
"You can't kill me!"
-Chris Redfield, Resident Evil
Truer words were never spoken
Raymond McKeithen II
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2000 20:26:05 GMT, "Raymond McKeithen II"
> <rfmc...@suchiepaijas.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Steven L Cox <ste...@vt.edu> wrote in message
> >news:38a5a46d...@news.vtacs.com...
> >> On Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:35:20 -0500, "Phillip Roncoroni"
> >> <goodc...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Damn... I don't give a shit.
> >>
> >> Whether you're a console fan, a PC fan, or both, you *better* pay
> >> attention. This is going to have a major effect on the gaming market
> >> whethr you care or not :)
> >>
> >
> >Why should I "better" pay attention? I have no interest in marketplace
> >issues, only games.
>
> You wouldn't be posting on the issue or even reading this newsgroup if
> you didn't keep up with the goings-on of the industry to some degree.
Nope, I come here to read about and discuss _games_ not industry politics or
speculate on the future.
Making assumptions about my writing, something you tell me not to do later
on...
> So why was it that you clicked on, read, and responded to a posting
> called "the x-box is coming" otherwise?
>
Because I read almost everything here that I haven't killfiled.
I responded because I disagree with what you said, and I'm (obviously
futile) trying to get people to stop posting pointless crap like this thread
and discuss something that's actually on-topic and not a waste of everyone's
time, like GAMES.
> >In the US, *maybe* it'll be a success. In Japan (the only place that *I*
> >give a "$hit" about) incredibly unlikely. If I wanted to play US "PC
style"
> >games I'd play PC games...
>
> This isn't a anti-/pro- PC/console conversation but it seems you have
> taken it that way !
No, I didn't. But most people won't deny there's a difference between "PC
games" and "console games"; a large part of that difference is that most
console games come from Japan, while PC games come from the US. Which group
of developers do you think are in that "group of 30" that MS is courting? I
don't play "PC games" on a console or on a PC, so I'm sure not interested in
playing them on an X-Box.
> Microsoft will affect you as a US gamer,
How? I fail to see how. Hell, Sony isn't affecting me as a "US gamer"! I
don't buy their products, no effect.
> and
> writing off the possibility of x-box entering the asian market
> successfully is a little premature (albeit an unlikely event I agree).
I think it's an incredibly safe bet. No foreign-to-Japan console has ever
been a success there nor has had any significant amount of Japanese
developers. In addition, MS hasn't been very successful at promoting
standards in Japan, like the failed MSX home computer. It was actually IBM
that first got Windows 3.0 going in Japan.
> Just keep your eyes open instead of closing your mind to the
> possibilities.
>
Huh? I'll look at what it has to offer in "late 2001" when it comes out. I
won't waste my time speculating about something now that isn't coming for 18
months if at all, and might not come at all or change greatly by that time.
How many times has MS' plans for the Win98 replacement changed in an
equivalent 18 month period? [Note, I'm not a MS-hater, just a realist.]
> >Why everyone assumes just because MS does something it'll automatically
be a
> >success is beyond me. Anyone remember Bob?
>
> Who said anything about an automatic success? I guess you took "going
> to have a major affect" as synonymous with "success" which it
> incorrect. A spectacular failure on Microsoft's part will likewise
> prove to change the industy.
In what way? The 3DO and Jaguar were spectacular failures, and they had
about as much "impact" as anything else that fails; essentially none.
> Suggestion: do more reading than
> assuming :)
>
Suggestion: 1) Be more clear if you want what you say interpreted as you
mean. I can't *read* what's not *written*. 2) You've made plenty of
incorrect assumptions about what I said too...
Schmev
It is about games, right?
Schmev
Darien Allen <darienNO...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:lcuaasocre5j4f145...@4ax.com...
> http://www.mcvnow.com/servlets/Article?articleId=1631
>
> X-Box Coming Fall 2001
>
> Microsoft will take its X-Box console onto retail shelves in just over
> 18 months, pitching it directly against Sony's PlayStation2. MCV can
> reveal that the US software giant held a secret meeting at its Seattle
> HQ last month to outline its battle plan to a small band of
> third-party software developers.
>
>
> Microsoft held a secret X-Box summit in Seattle.
> X-Box will be launched in the US by September 2001 and possibly in
> Europe at the same time. Its software will not be compatible with PCs,
> but the hardware will be branded Microsoft.
>
> Price point of $149-$349 depending on the price of PS2 at that time.
>
Raymond McKeithen II
Schmev <schmev@"no spam"flash.net> wrote in message
news:X%pp4.1464$nu4....@news.flash.net...
> Blah. Until some games are announced, this system is a total bore.
>
> It is about games, right?
>
I thought it was about games. It seems though, to too many people, it's
about speculating, about wishing for something that might be available
sometime in the future, etc. "Armchair gaming" apparently.
--
Raymond
remove "suchiepai" for email
>
> Darien Allen <darienNO...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:lcuaasocre5j4f145...@4ax.com...
> > http://www.mcvnow.com/servlets/Article?articleId=1631
> >
> > X-Box Coming Fall 2001
> >
[pointless newsrelease snerplalaed]
100101011101110001
>together by people with money, but no clue as to how the console market
>works.
Deja Vu... these very same words were pronounced by many analysts
Jeff Williams
news:885c4f$49i$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> huh? Are you telling me Americans can't make good games? Are you
> saying no one cares about games made by Americans?
> Is Japanese 3rd party support essential to console buyers in the U.S.A.?
It's pretty essential to me. I hadn't read the original post when I made my
earlier reply, so I have to rescind some of my comments. I will *not* buy
an X-box if PC games won't work on it - most PC games are made by Americans,
but there are so many of them that there are bound to be a few that I like
(out of the 2,000 or so relatively current PC games, there are maybe 50 that
I like). But, I would definitely say the percentage of Japanese games that
I like is much higher than that, so to me Japanese developer support *is*
essential in my buying a proprietary console. One major Japanese
developer - Square - not developing for the DC wasn't enough to keep me
away, but *all* of them would be. If X-Box has no PC games and also has no
Namco, Square, Capcom, Tecmo, Enix, Game Arts, etc. you can count me out.
> The X-box will have it's online support right out of the box. Microsoft
> has a HUGE gaming network.
Yeah, with no games to play on it if it doesn't support PC games!
>
> A few stellar titles such as Half Life, Q3, The Sims, Falcon 5.0,
> Thief, ect, could hook gamers for a long time.
As I thought before I read the original post too. If the X-Box supports
these, I'll probably buy one. But the original post speculated it would
*not* support PC games.
> Alot of people I speak with just aren't that thrilled with alot of the
> recent console games. It's kind of the "same old, same old".
Yeah, and most PC games aren't? Let's not turn this into a PC game vs.
console game debate - I play some PC games, but I'll take my console games
hands down. I'd only be buying an X-Box to save myself some money on
upgrades for those very few PC games that I really like. If I *really*
liked a lot more PC games I'd just spend the money on the upgrades. As it
is, I'm willing to spend ~$700 for an import PS2 with games and accessories
on launch day, but I'm not willing to spend that on upgrades for my PC
games.
I think
> online access will help alleviate the rut that console gaming currently
> finds itself in.
Rut?! Console gaming is the biggest entertainment industry in the world!
Play Crazy Taxi and tell me console gaming's in a rut...
blue...@my-deja.com
These Videogame sites and magazines like to hype
any fucking thing don't they ? I wish they would stop reporting
anything thats more than 2 months in the future.
Does anyone know of a Videogame magzine tha does this ?
In article <8850m7$sr3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
inter...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Hmm... this is Big news almost as big as when
> Ford redesigned their Escort, Or When
> the Macarena swept the world !!
> >In article <lcuaasocre5j4f145...@4ax.com>,
> > Darien Allen <darienNO...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> > ------------------------
> >
> > Darien Allen
> > ICQ-2927081
> >
>
johns...@my-deja.com
be very selective , I think the videogame
industry is healthier with just 2 Consoles.
Otherwie you end up like PC's
to many types bring out mediocre crap. If
Developers only had to learn how to program on 2
consoles instead of 4 , Games will come out quicker.
In article <17647-38...@storefull-145.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
Peace and Soybeans!
> huh? Are you telling me Americans can't make good games? Are you
> saying no one cares about games made by Americans?
> Is Japanese 3rd party support essential to console buyers in the U.S.A.?
Americans CAN make good games....but in general, American games lack the
fun factor, design sense, creativity, and killer control that Japanese
produced titles have. A system that relies on a few American based
companies is not going to have a good selection of quality titles....just
a bunch of Doom clones....gah.
> The X-box will have it's online support right out of the box. Microsoft
> has a HUGE gaming network.
So why not just run with the PC for that?
> A few stellar titles such as Half Life, Q3, The Sims, Falcon 5.0,
> Thief, ect, could hook gamers for a long time. Add to that excellent
> multiplayer support, and you have games with great replay value.
People are already playing those on the PC....those aren't the type of
titles that sell consoles. Sports games, Japanese style RPGs, and Arcade
properties are what sell consoles.
> Alot of people I speak with just aren't that thrilled with alot of the
> recent console games. It's kind of the "same old, same old". I think
> online access will help alleviate the rut that console gaming currently
> finds itself in.
I agree that the industry is kind of in a "gerneric" place right now, but
PC-style games aren't what will save the console market. We just need a
little more inginuity (Treasure games! whohoo!), and a break away from
fighters and racers.
pigcop
> > huh? Are you telling me Americans can't make good games? Are you
> > saying no one cares about games made by Americans?
> > Is Japanese 3rd party support essential to console buyers in the U.S.A.?
> > I don't understand where you are coming from.
>
> Americans CAN make good games....but in general, American games lack the
> fun factor, design sense, creativity, and killer control that Japanese
> produced titles have. A system that relies on a few American based
> companies is not going to have a good selection of quality titles....just
> a bunch of Doom clones....gah.
>
> > The X-box will have it's online support right out of the box. Microsoft
> > has a HUGE gaming network.
>
> So why not just run with the PC for that?
>
> > A few stellar titles such as Half Life, Q3, The Sims, Falcon 5.0,
> > Thief, ect, could hook gamers for a long time. Add to that excellent
> > multiplayer support, and you have games with great replay value.
>
> People are already playing those on the PC....those aren't the type of
> titles that sell consoles. Sports games, Japanese style RPGs, and Arcade
> properties are what sell consoles.
I disagree The Console market is so big that the more
variety in games is better. We need more Niche games.
I mean look at Resident Evil that was a Niche
game at 1st, Now look at To many Zombie Games !!!
I want more War Sims and maybe History type games.
>
> > Alot of people I speak with just aren't that thrilled with alot of the
> > recent console games. It's kind of the "same old, same old". I think
> > online access will help alleviate the rut that console gaming currently
> > finds itself in.
I think gamemakers should have a moratorium
on all racing Fighting and Zombie games.
For at least 2 years.
John Ford.
<rfmc...@suchiepaijas.net> wrote:
>I responded because I disagree with what you said, and I'm (obviously
>futile) trying to get people to stop posting pointless crap like this thread
>and discuss something that's actually on-topic and not a waste of everyone's
>time, like GAMES.
You are not the moderator of this newsgroup, nor do you represent
anyone but yourself. The X-Box is of particular interest to those of
us who *DO* care about the systems and games we'll be playing in the
future.
>No, I didn't. But most people won't deny there's a difference between "PC
>games" and "console games"; a large part of that difference is that most
>console games come from Japan, while PC games come from the US. Which group
>of developers do you think are in that "group of 30" that MS is courting? I
>don't play "PC games" on a console or on a PC, so I'm sure not interested in
>playing them on an X-Box.
It will be a console box, not a PC. It will compete with the PS2,
whether you like it or not. This not
rec.games.video.sony.soc.culture.japan as much as you want it to be.
John Ford.
<rfmc...@suchiepaijas.net> wrote:
>Schmev <schmev@"no spam"flash.net> wrote in message
>news:X%pp4.1464$nu4....@news.flash.net...
>> Blah. Until some games are announced, this system is a total bore.
>>
>> It is about games, right?
>>
>I thought it was about games. It seems though, to too many people, it's
>about speculating, about wishing for something that might be available
>sometime in the future, etc. "Armchair gaming" apparently.
So start a mailing list and leave us alone.
John Ford.
<col...@river.it.gvsu.edu> wrote:
>Americans CAN make good games....but in general, American games lack the
>fun factor,
Half Life.
>design sense
X-Com.
>creativity
Last Express.
>and killer control
Irrelevant. Controls are customized. If you're talking about
interfaces, PC games generally have better ones, because there are
more keys and less menus. For action games, it's really dependent on
the control device. Console systems pretty much kill PC's in the
controller department.
>that Japanese
>produced titles have.
I strongly disagree with that sentence.
> A system that relies on a few American based
>companies is not going to have a good selection of quality titles
Oh, it'll have a good selection of quality titles. What it won't have
is recognition in Japan, which is where all the money is made. It also
won't have familiarity with most console only gamers. That is, until
Billy's parents realize the X-Box is about half the cost of the PS2.
>....just
>a bunch of Doom clones....gah.
That's a pretty ignorant thing to say. I might as well quip that all
console games are Super Mario and Dragon Warrior clones...
[SNIP]
>So why not just run with the PC for that?
Maybe 'cuz PC's cost about 1,000% more?
Raymond McKeithen II
John Ford. <sain...@hot.mail.com> wrote in message
news:782dascnm98jop0lq...@4ax.com...
I'll gladly leave you alone.
Here's a start... ***plonk***
Now, as far as I'm concerned, you don't exist. Feel free to do the same.
Raymond McKeithen II
John Ford. <sain...@hot.mail.com> wrote in message
news:7n1daskb8n1151k3d...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 13 Feb 2000 02:51:25 GMT, "Raymond McKeithen II"
> <rfmc...@suchiepaijas.net> wrote:
>
>
> You are not the moderator of this newsgroup, nor do you represent
> anyone but yourself.
Never said otherwise.
> It will be a console box, not a PC. It will compete with the PS2,
> whether you like it or not. This not
> rec.games.video.sony.soc.culture.japan as much as you want it to be.
I don't give a $%*&#& about the PS2.
In case you haven't noticed, this crap is crossposted to all 3 console
groups; I'm seeing it in the Sega group.
Raymond McKeithen II
John Ford. <sain...@hot.mail.com> wrote in message
news:7n1daskb8n1151k3d...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 13 Feb 2000 02:51:25 GMT, "Raymond McKeithen II"
> <rfmc...@suchiepaijas.net> wrote:
>
> You are not the moderator of this newsgroup, nor do you represent
> anyone but yourself.
>
though.
> It will be a console box, not a PC. It will compete with the PS2,
> whether you like it or not. This not
> rec.games.video.sony.soc.culture.japan as much as you want it to be.
>
It alse is NOT
rec.games.video.microsoft
rec.games.video.xbox
or even
rec.games.video.advocacy (that one exists, maybe you should use it)
So not only is this thread crossposted to 3 groups (a no-no), it's off-topic
in each and every one of the groups it's posted to.
Muskie
the
> fun factor,
?
Games like HAlf Life, The Sims, Thief, Unreal TOurney, Quake 3, Worms,
Falcon 5.0 are INCREDIBLY fun. And the replay value on these titles is
light years ahead of the console games(sans the sports titles).
>design sense,
Wrong. The good console games have no more of an intricate
design "sense" than good PC games do.
>creativity,
Don't think so. The creative PC titles are just as creative as the good
CONSOLE titles. Who's propoganda are you buying ,Jack?
>and killer control that Japanese
> produced titles have.
" Killer Control"? How about Resident Evil, Dino crisis? Do those
games have "killer control"? Hardly. IN fact, I will even go so far
as to say most of the PSX games I have played have had SHIT control.
Especially the RE series, Tomb Raider, Tenchu. I thought Colony
Wars had GREAT control, along with Gameday 98 and NHL 98, but to me,
the great controlling PSX games were few and far between. I Thought the
PSX control scheme was far, far, FAR weaker than the one for the N64.
The best control I ever experienced in a home game was/is Half Life.
> A system that relies on a few American based
> companies is not going to have a good selection of quality
titles....just
> a bunch of Doom clones....gah.
Huh?
Where does this comment come from? FPS come out less often on the PC
than RPG's do on the PSX. Go figure.
> So why not just run with the PC for that?
Cost.
//A few stellar titles such as Half Life, Q3, The Sims, Falcon 5.0,
> > Thief, ect, could hook gamers for a long time. Add to that
excellent
> > multiplayer support, and you have games with great replay value.//
>
> People are already playing those on the PC....those aren't the type of
> titles that sell consoles.
You don't think Q3 and Half Life can sell consoles? lol! You get those
two games converted PROPERLY to a console, and set up an online gaming
network, and my friend...those two games will change consoles forever.
TFC, all the Quake mods ect. And people had previously thought that
good "replay value" was a red bandana and some tofu. lol.
> Sports games, Japanese style RPGs, and Arcade
> properties are what sell consoles.
Who made up these rules? You?
Good games are what should sell consoles. Genre is irrellevent.
> I agree that the industry is kind of in a "gerneric" place right
now, but
> PC-style games aren't what will save the console market.
PC style games wont save the console market, but expanding the consoles
with online connectivity will expand the life of CONSOLE games which is
one of the reasons it is so stagnant lately. The games just don't have
that much replay value.
------Muskie
Steven L Cox
>Hah ! the X-box it doesn't even have a fucking real name !
As if the name of a console is relevant... repetition might have other
console names like "playstation" and "dreamcast" sounding normal but
they both took grief upon first annoucement. MS could call the thing
"Auntie's Buterscotch Yum-Yums" and it'd sell if the games are
worthwhile :)
> These Videogame sites and magazines like to hype
> any fucking thing don't they ? I wish they would stop reporting
> anything thats more than 2 months in the future.
Unrealistic.
-s-
Joe Anstett
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:35:20 -0500, "Phillip Roncoroni"
> <goodc...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Damn... I don't give a shit.
>
> Whether you're a console fan, a PC fan, or both, you *better* pay
> attention. This is going to have a major effect on the gaming market
> whethr you care or not :)
Yeah, like Palm had *better* pay attention to Windows CE handhelds.
I think the X-box will be just like the Win CE handhelds -- it's an area
where Microsoft is half-heartedly competing, just to have a stake in the
ground. But it doesn't know how (nor arguably does it WANT) to win.
Joe
Joe Anstett
> If anything, this will make the console gaming market more competitive.
> It'll force prices of systems/games down and spark companies to release
> better products. Hopefully the competition wont drive companies away
> like what happened to Saturn. If you think about it, Sega's in the worst
> position right now (least powerful system) and if they don't significantly
> shape up, they could be left behind.
Uh, hello, the Sega Dreamcast is selling pretty well (and it's the most powerful
system available).
Joe
Steven L Cox
<joe_a...@DVDROCKSemail.com> wrote:
>Steven L Cox wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:35:20 -0500, "Phillip Roncoroni"
>> <goodc...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Damn... I don't give a shit.
>>
>> Whether you're a console fan, a PC fan, or both, you *better* pay
>> attention. This is going to have a major effect on the gaming market
>> whethr you care or not :)
>
>Yeah, like Palm had *better* pay attention to Windows CE handhelds.
U don't think 3Com nervously looks Microsoft's way every other minute?
But that's besides the point as the analogy is a faulty one, and this
is proceeding to get way OT. Let's leave it at the fact that despite
having plenty of people posting that the x-box is going to be a
non-issue when it comes to console gaming, it sure has inspired a
goodly number of defensive comments over a year before it's release :)
-s-
NonDeskript
> As I thought before I read the original post too. If the X-Box supports
> these, I'll probably buy one. But the original post speculated it would
> *not* support PC games.
Where did people ever get the idea that the X-Box was going to run PC
games? I hadn't seen that in any news stories or anything. Its just a
console made by Microsoft. PC ports will be easy to do, since it does run
a bastardized version of Win98 or ME or whatever. But its still a console
not a PC.
--
-David
NonDeskript
> Microsoft doesn't have a clue. It has an Operating System, an Office Suite,
> a bunch of programs people complain all the time about, and a pair of
> worthwile entertainment titles, "Flight Simulator" and "Entertainment Pack".
Um, you do know that M$ publishes far more entertainment titles than just
those two, right? You have heard of games like Age of Empires, right? M$
has a whole game publishing division. They do have people working there
that know a few things about entertainment, and far more about video
games than Sony did when it created the PSX.
--
-David
conANDave
news:38A6D4F6...@DVDROCKSemail.com...
: Uh, hello, the Sega Dreamcast is selling pretty well (and it's the most
powerful
: system available).
Right now. And right now, Sega Dreamcast has no direct competitors.
conANDave
news:MPG.1310cca7a...@news.pdq.net...
: Um, you do know that M$ publishes far more entertainment titles than just
: those two, right?
Key word: worthwile
John Ford.
<rfmc...@suchiepaijas.net> wrote:
>Of course not. You seem to be deluded into thinking you represent others
>though.
I represent myself.
>It alse is NOT
>
>rec.games.video.microsoft
>rec.games.video.xbox
Yeah, nonexistent groups are a good suggestion.
>or even
>
>rec.games.video.advocacy (that one exists, maybe you should use it)
This would not belong in advocacy either. It's too general.
>So not only is this thread crossposted to 3 groups (a no-no), it's off-topic
>in each and every one of the groups it's posted to.
Where then do you suggest, mighty newsgroup moderator?
I don't particularly care what is and isn't off-topic. This is
interesting, so I read it. Your complaining is as much a waste of time
than the thread.
voice of reason
<rfmc...@suchiepaijas.net> wrote:
>I'll gladly leave you alone.
>
>Here's a start... ***plonk***
>
>Now, as far as I'm concerned, you don't exist. Feel free to do the same.
Nah, I'm not an anal-retentive, whiny jerk. But thanks for the advice.
And tune your god-damn kill-file. Hey, why don't you crosspost me to
one of the news-abuse newsgroups, for that tattle-tale effect. That'll
make you even more appealing.
-JF
Paul J Chi
McKeithen II" <rfmc...@suchiepaijas.net> wrote:
> I think it's an incredibly safe bet. No foreign-to-Japan console has ever
> been a success there nor has had any significant amount of Japanese
> developers. In addition, MS hasn't been very successful at promoting
> standards in Japan, like the failed MSX home computer. It was actually
> IBM
> that first got Windows 3.0 going in Japan.
Failed MSX home computer? Did the MSX have anything to do with
Microsoft at all? I thought that the only thing Microsoft was known for
at the time of the MSX was MS Flight Simulator. :)
Maybe you have a different MSX in mind, but I thought the MSX was kind
of like a gaming console. There was an MSX Classics collection by Namco
that was released on the Saturn, or something vaguely along those lines.
I think it was rather big in S Korea at the time; I've got a Korean
gaming console that I think plays MSX games. This was all in the 8-bit
era. I got that console in 1987, I believe.
If the MSX was by Microsoft, I'd be very surprised. :/
David Oldridge
news:u11Fgjmd$GA.247@cpmsnbbsa03...
I doubt that a large percentage of people who are interested enough in
video games to buy a Dreamcast have never heard of the PSX2 though, or have
not heard rumblings about the Dolphin. There's always the option of just
picking up a PSX or N64 (if they don't already have one) to keep them busy
until their next console release. However, millions of people have decided
to buy a Dreamcast anyways. They might also buy a PSX2 and/or Dolphin,
among with the tens of millions of other console owners, but until the
competition actually proves themselves on the market it would be foolish to
count out anyone who has a chance of doing well, which right now includes
Sega. I'm not saying that "Sega will rool", just that at the moment there's
no reason to believe that they won't.
FearNo1
it will be PSX2 and dreamcast. If the release dates of X-boX and
dolphin are create, ie mid to late 2001, sony and sega would have
already captured the market. When PSX2 is released in U$, it will
cost no more than $250. Sony has tons of cash, it knows it cant
overprice its unit, no matter how "revolutionary" it is. Besides,
sony has tons of cash, they can afford to take a loss, to get
marketshared. They will be forced to lower prices, cuz by that
time dreamcast will prob cost $150.
"V. Equinox" wrote:
>
> Warning: a little long. I would like to hear people's comments, though.
>
> From the information I've heard so far on the X-Box, it's really hard
> to tell what's going to happen with it. It is true that by the time the X-Box
> comes out, the PS2 will already have been out for at least a little while, and
> the Dreamcast will have been gaining fans the whole time (though I seem to be
> more optimistic about Sega's chances than a lot of people). I'm also looking
> at the fact that Nintendo's machine may be coming out around the same time or
> shortly after, that puts 4 big systems in the next-generation console race.
>
***stuff snipped***
FearNo1
counterparts, is *fighting* games, specifically namco. You have to
admit, the best fighting games come from japan. The U$ tends to make
the best FPS games. And by far, Descent 3 has the best controls of
any game out, atleast FPS genre ;-)
FearNo1
competitive since alot of ppl also use their PCs for games. We also
seem to be focussing too much from a consumer viewpoint. But lets
not forget looking from the developer's standpoint. The last thing
a (atleast most) developer wants to do is release games for tons of
systems...it takes time to do that, esp if you want to do a good
job and optimize the game for the system. Just look at EA, they still
havent supported the DC, even after it has sold millions. So from a
developer standpoint, they prob perfer 2 consoles and PC, since PC
will always be there. And lets not forget how consoles try to get
"exclusive" rights to games, that will never work with 3 consoles,
it may work with 2. Thats why I think the dolphine system is in
trouble.
If any thing the X-boX may actually hurt the DC from a hardware
standpoint in the future. If my memory is correct, it will be
backwards compatible with DC and play DVD based games. So, in year
2001, instead of someone buying a DC and the DVD add-on (assuming
its out then), he/she would be an X-boX. Furthermore, I wouldnt
be too surprised if some DC owners sell their DCs for X-boX. This
is assuming it will be backwards compatible with DC.
Jeff Williams wrote:
>
> "V. Equinox" <vequ...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
> news:8855kb$h6l$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net...
> > Historically, the console race in any given generation has ended
> up
> > being a 2 man competition.
>
> Market's a lot bigger now, though. This is a business that just passed the
> movie industry last year in terms of gross revenue. The problem used to be
> that with a small market, dividing sales up three ways would mean no profits
> for anyone - meaning all three ended up going for the same audience,
> spending as much money as they had on marketing, and eventually one company
> would be driven out of the market. Nowadays I think it's pretty clear that
> there are enough gamers of all types out there that at least three consoles
> could be supported by the marketplace with all three manufacturers making a
> profit (though a lot of people seem to be obssessed with who "wins" each
> generation, when all the manufacturers really care about is making profits),
> and by targeting more specific demographics. You already see this -
> Nintendo goes after younger gamers and is positioning the Dolphin as a
> gaming-only machine, Sega's going after somewhat older gamers than Nintendo
> and is saying the DC is a game-only console too (though with online gaming
> eventually), whereas Sony's going for the set-top box market and trying to
> be all things to all people (I think this is going to backfire - they're
> being way too broad). Microsoft will be going after all those people out
> there that want to play PC games but can't afford the money for a real
> high-end gaming PC. I think that, with the exception of Sony, if everybody
> sticks to their own demographics and doesn't try to get too broad and
> unfocused, everybody can make a profit. Sony's either going to take over
> the world or fall flat on their face with the PS2; by going after basically
> everybody, they're setting themselves up as a target that every other
> manufacturer is aiming at. MS, Nintendo, and Sega are all going to be
> gunning for Sony rather than competing amongst themselves, or just trying to
> do their own thing.
>
> This began with the whole Genesis/SNES thing (the
> > NES was almost completely unopposed for most of it's life).
>
> Actually, no it didn't - it began with the Atari 2600/Intellivision thing.
> The 2 console thing was a constant since the 1970's - every time a third
> console would be introduced, it would either die a quick death or force one
> of the other systems into early retirement. But that was a different time.
>
> > If history repeats itself, all but two of these powerhouses will
> lose
> > the console race, and it's hard to say who. Sega's new machine is already
> > doing better than the Saturn ever did, and if they get the online play
> working
> > they'll have yet another selling point to entice gamers (and they won't
> > require an expensive cable modem to do it). Sure, when all the new
> machines
> > come out it'll make things harder on Sega, but by then the Dreamcast will
> have
> > a sizable enough user base that the demand for Dreamcast games will still
> be
> > there, at least for a while ...
>
> As long as they keep coming out with games like Crazy Taxi, the demand will
> be there. Sega's probably going to end up 3rd or 4th in this race, but I
> think it's a mistake to assume that means the DC will be a failure. I don't
> think Sega ever expected to be #1; I think they expected to make a profit,
> which they probably already are (they obviously are on each individual game
> sale, but I think they've probably already cleared their R&D, marketing and
> production costs as well). And I think they will continue to make a profit
> as long as they keep releasing good games. I mean, the Genesis eventually
> finished 2nd to the SNES, but Sega made a huge amount of money on that
> system - in fact, they'd be nowhere without the Genesis. Profit is all that
> matters, not whether you win the race.
>
> > That brings us to the X-Box. It seems that the price point for
> > Microsoft's system may be lower than the PS2 for a system with similar
> > capability. The games may be the more American PC-style game than more
> > Japanese oriented console style games, but is your average buyer going it
> care
> > if it means they can get lots of groovy eye candy for not much money?
>
> X-Box will never provide the same kind of eye candy as the PS2 will. The
> problem is it'll be running PC games, which are designed for the lowest
> common denominator of PC machines. Nobody knows how MS's business model's
> going to work exactly, but I think most likely all X-Box games will be
> straight PC ports, if not exact PC games with no porting needed. It's
> probably going to be possible for developers to develop strictly for the
> X-Box to take advantage of its processing power, but I doubt any developers
> will do that when there's already such a large market for regular PC gamers.
> May as well not exclude all of them in designing X-Box games.
>
> X-Box will have to survive on the strength of its games alone rather than on
> their graphics, which is basically what the DC's going to have to do as
> well. X-Box will have a big head start, though - it'll have thousands of
> games already available at launch. I think it'll sell well enough to make a
> profit, *if* MS doesn't do something stupid with the licensing, or in some
> other way alienate developers or gamers from what they're used to dealing
> with. MS doesn't know anything about video games, and inexperience never
> helped anybody break into a well-established business.
>
> Honestly, I'll wait and see what it's really like, but I might buy an X-box
> if the price is right (say, $200 or so). I look at it this way - my
> computer's getting a little old, and some of my newer games don't run too
> well on it. I could upgrade my CPU, motherboard, and graphics card, for
> about $700. Or, I could just buy an X-box instead and just use it to play
> my PC games (and use my PC for regular PC stuff), with the added benefit of
> not having to deal with driver issues or whatnot (hopefully), not to mention
> being able to play my PC games from the couch.
>
> --
> // Jeff Williams
> // ge...@nervhq.org
conANDave
news:88729f$75s$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
: Games like HAlf Life, The Sims, Thief, Unreal TOurney, Quake 3, Worms,
If the folks at Maxis/EA decide they want to make a console version of "The
Sims" (which is THE title I've been waiting for this new year, along with
SimMars, and hasn't disappointed. Go Maxis! Now, hows about a new SimTower,
and maybe a bug-free, more detailed, and cleaned up version of SimCopter?),
please please please be careful and watch the mistakes they've made with
SimCity for SNES and SimCity 2000 for N64-Japan. While I've only played the
SimCity for SNES, it was crap. And from what I hear of SC2K for N64, it's
crap too.
conANDave
news:38A75F2D...@interaccess.com...
: I agree there prob will be only 2 successful next gen systems. IMHO,
: it will be PSX2 and dreamcast. If the release dates of X-boX and
: dolphin are create, ie mid to late 2001, sony and sega would have
: already captured the market.
If, and this is a big if, Nintendo can't meet it's late 2000 release date, I
think that's not too big a problem. They'll miss out on the Christmas 2000.
Not that big a deal. The big N will still rake it in with the Game Boy
Advance release. However, I have high doubts that Nintendo can't make an
early 2001 release date for Dolphin, which would still maintain the
Dolphin's running for a piece of the next generation pie. And, Nintendo has
a huge first and second party base of franchises to build on. I don't think
Nintendo will have as hard a time as you have made it out to be, unless the
release of the system is really delayed until the second half of 2001. Then
we'd have a problem. Otherwise, Nintendo is safe. Plus, having GBA release
almost definately this year for Xmas 2000, and GBA's ability to link with
Dolphin, will give Dolphin a foothold in the market when GBA releases.
James Elkins
have disputed. Namely that it would be an open platform console, be
sold by several hardware manufacturers, and be fully compatible with PC
games.
--
"The Ice Giant cometh and breaketh openeth the dooreth." -- Super
Adventure Island 2
Raymond McKeithen II
Paul J Chi <pau...@acsu.buffalo.edu> wrote in message
news:paulchi-F70EB0.17592613022000@[128.205.7.39]...
You're talking about the same product, except it was Konami not Namco that
released the collection on Saturn (and PSX where it was several [3?]
volumes).
As I understand/recall it, the MSX computer and/or OS was a 'standard'
pushed by Microsoft, just as Windows is today. MS didn't make the hardware
for the systems just as they don't make PCs now (and probably won't actually
manufacture X-Boxes either). I don't remember any better details of it than
that.
It was considered a home computer (at the time few homes in Japan had PCs,
apparently many still don't), it just happened to play games, sort of like
the C64 in the US. All the MSX units (all I've seen pictures of anyway) did
have keyboards.
Obviously it was a semi-success since all the games and such exist, but it
wasn't the "take over the world" success MS intended it to be. It's taken a
long time for anything to unseat the PC-98xx standard of NEC's in Japan (I
don't recall if those were yet around when the MSX came out though).
V. Equinox
I wrote before did look at the current console situation through the eyes of
the market as it has existed up until now (which I think is a fair way to look
at it since a lot of game companies are going to make decisions based on past
market trends). You're right though, the market is a lot different now.
We've seen the rise of the casual gamer market, which is the fastest growing
segment of the video game market.
There might just be the demand out there for every game company to make money,
but it's always possible that all that money might flow into one or two
companies. The only reason I say that is because casual gamers are
unpredictable. When compared to hardcore gamers, they're less informed, more
susceptible to advertising, more concerned about price, and don't hold any
loyalty to one company over the other. Depending on how the game companies
price and market their systems, the casual gamers may all go in different
directions or may all buy the same box. The video game market's become both
larger and more unpredictable.
> This began with the whole Genesis/SNES thing (the
>> NES was almost completely unopposed for most of it's life).
>
>Actually, no it didn't - it began with the Atari 2600/Intellivision thing.
>The 2 console thing was a constant since the 1970's - every time a third
>console would be introduced, it would either die a quick death or force one
>of the other systems into early retirement. But that was a different time.
>
I have a tendency to overlook the whole Atari era since my first console was a
NES, but you're right that the whole thing started with the
Atari/Intellivision rivalry. What I meant by the NES being unopposed, was
that it came right on the heels of the big video game crash in the early 80's.
Early in it's life it was rivaled by Atari, but Atari did fall out of the
whole thing and for a good while the NES was farther ahead (in terms of sales)
of every other system out there than any other system has been since.
>> If history repeats itself, all but two of these powerhouses will
>lose
>> the console race, and it's hard to say who. Sega's new machine is already
>> doing better than the Saturn ever did, and if they get the online play
>working
>> they'll have yet another selling point to entice gamers (and they won't
>> require an expensive cable modem to do it). Sure, when all the new
>machines
>> come out it'll make things harder on Sega, but by then the Dreamcast will
>have
>> a sizable enough user base that the demand for Dreamcast games will still
>be
>> there, at least for a while ...
>
>As long as they keep coming out with games like Crazy Taxi, the demand will
>be there. Sega's probably going to end up 3rd or 4th in this race, but I
>think it's a mistake to assume that means the DC will be a failure. I don't
>think Sega ever expected to be #1; I think they expected to make a profit,
>which they probably already are (they obviously are on each individual game
>sale, but I think they've probably already cleared their R&D, marketing and
>production costs as well). And I think they will continue to make a profit
>as long as they keep releasing good games. I mean, the Genesis eventually
>finished 2nd to the SNES, but Sega made a huge amount of money on that
>system - in fact, they'd be nowhere without the Genesis. Profit is all that
>matters, not whether you win the race.
>
Absolutely. The days of Sega ending up with net losses for the year and
having to do massive layoffs are over, at least for a while. Who knows what
will happen when the 256 and 512 bit systems start debuting.
I see what you're saying. The only reason I brought up graphics is because
I'm sure Microsoft wants to create a system to be an alternative to PC games,
and when I talk to a PC gamer trying to figure out why they like PC games so
much better than console games I usually hear graphics, graphics, graphics.
And I do see the system being pretty close to the PS2 as far as technical
specs. I just think taking a big loss on every system they sell just so they
can dominate the market is something that Microsoft is very willing to do.
Even if it's not just about graphics, PC games to have a market, but it does
seem like a lot of people want to play a lot of PC games that they can't since
their systems can't run them. This is the main reason I think Microsoft might
have a chance with the X-Box. Hey, people who can't afford computers have
been buying up WebTV's to surf the internet (come to think of it, Microsoft
will probably decide to release a combination X-Box/WebTV unit if the X-Box is
at all successful).
I have a hard time getting motivated about the X-Box. I don't get into most
PC games (since I don't really like first person shooters or real time
strategy games), and X-Box games will probably almost exclusively be PC ports.
But then I'm in Sega's and Sony's target audience, not Microsoft's. There
might be room for everybody, but I still hold to my original opinion that the
market is way too unpredictable to know, and it's still highly possible that
one or two of these big new machines could flop.
-------------------
"You can't kill me!"
-Chris Redfield, Resident Evil
Truer words were never spoken
V. Equinox
>>It's just a machine put
>>together by people with money, but no clue as to how the console market
>>works.
>
>Deja Vu... these very same words were pronounced by many analysts
>in-the-know some 5 years ago when a certain little company called Sony
>decided to develop a video game.
>
:) Good point. I also remember that Sony collaborated with Nintendo before
releasing their own system, and Microsoft collaborated with Sega and is now
releasing their own system ... hmm.
V. Equinox
person shooters, simulation games, and American style RPG's (I'd almost
consider this a completely different genre from Japanese style RPG's). The
Japanese know how to make fighting games, Japanese style RPG's, and adventure
games. It just depends on what you like.
In article <38A773C9...@interaccess.com>, FearNo1
<Fea...@interaccess.com> wrote:
>IMHO, the only advantage japanese game makers have over their U$
>counterparts, is *fighting* games, specifically namco. You have to
>admit, the best fighting games come from japan. The U$ tends to make
>the best FPS games. And by far, Descent 3 has the best controls of
>any game out, atleast FPS genre ;-)
>
>Muskie wrote:
>>
>> > Americans CAN make good games....but in general, American games lack
>> the
>> > fun factor,
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Games like HAlf Life, The Sims, Thief, Unreal TOurney, Quake 3, Worms,
>> Falcon 5.0 are INCREDIBLY fun. And the replay value on these titles is
>> light years ahead of the console games(sans the sports titles).
>>
>> >design sense,
>>
>> Wrong. The good console games have no more of an intricate
>> design "sense" than good PC games do.
>>
-------------------
V. Equinox
competitors, but the main gist of my post (or at least what I meant it to be)
was that the market is too unpredictable right now to know who will win and
who will fail. Maybe there will be two major competitors, maybe there'll be
three, maybe all four will do well, or maybe three will flop out and one
company will dominate the market. I think it's too early at this point to
tell. Sega, Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo all have a lot of things going for
them and against them.
In article <38A75F2D...@interaccess.com>, FearNo1
<Fea...@interaccess.com> wrote:
>I agree there prob will be only 2 successful next gen systems. IMHO,
>it will be PSX2 and dreamcast. If the release dates of X-boX and
>dolphin are create, ie mid to late 2001, sony and sega would have
>already captured the market. When PSX2 is released in U$, it will
>cost no more than $250. Sony has tons of cash, it knows it cant
>overprice its unit, no matter how "revolutionary" it is. Besides,
>sony has tons of cash, they can afford to take a loss, to get
>marketshared. They will be forced to lower prices, cuz by that
>time dreamcast will prob cost $150.
>
>"V. Equinox" wrote:
>>
>> Warning: a little long. I would like to hear people's comments, though.
>>
>> From the information I've heard so far on the X-Box, it's really hard
>> to tell what's going to happen with it. It is true that by the time the
> X-Box
>> comes out, the PS2 will already have been out for at least a little while,
> and
>> the Dreamcast will have been gaining fans the whole time (though I seem to be
>> more optimistic about Sega's chances than a lot of people). I'm also looking
>> at the fact that Nintendo's machine may be coming out around the same time or
>> shortly after, that puts 4 big systems in the next-generation console race.
>>
>***stuff snipped***
-------------------
V. Equinox
>Skoiboy wrote:
>
>> If anything, this will make the console gaming market more competitive.
>> It'll force prices of systems/games down and spark companies to release
>> better products. Hopefully the competition wont drive companies away
>> like what happened to Saturn. If you think about it, Sega's in the worst
>> position right now (least powerful system) and if they don't significantly
>> shape up, they could be left behind.
>
> powerful
>system available).
>
coming out in the future, but I'm with you in thinking that Sega will hold
it's own. I remember Sega doing really well with the Genesis even though the
SNES was a more powerful machine.
rom
Paul J Chi wrote:
>
>
> Failed MSX home computer? Did the MSX have anything to do with
> Microsoft at all? I thought that the only thing Microsoft was known for
> at the time of the MSX was MS Flight Simulator. :)
>
> Maybe you have a different MSX in mind, but I thought the MSX was kind
> of like a gaming console. There was an MSX Classics collection by Namco
> that was released on the Saturn, or something vaguely along those lines.
> I think it was rather big in S Korea at the time; I've got a Korean
> gaming console that I think plays MSX games. This was all in the 8-bit
> era. I got that console in 1987, I believe.
>
> If the MSX was by Microsoft, I'd be very surprised. :/
MSX was developed by several companies. Microsoft is one of them, and so is
Sony. Current president of Sony was responsible for marketing MSX in Japan. He
apparently failed to gain market share.
Peace and Soybeans!
> Games like HAlf Life, The Sims, Thief, Unreal TOurney, Quake 3, Worms,
> Falcon 5.0 are INCREDIBLY fun. And the replay value on these titles is
> light years ahead of the console games(sans the sports titles).
Gah, I don't want to get into a PC vs. Console war...but those aren't
games people play on consoles.....yes, there are exceptions to the rule,
but Consoles excel at arcade style games, action games, sports, and
Japanese style rpgs....
> Wrong. The good console games have no more of an intricate
> design "sense" than good PC games do.
I'm talking character design, and over all art style. I'm sorry, but most
American titles look completely generic....
> Don't think so. The creative PC titles are just as creative as the good
> CONSOLE titles. Who's propoganda are you buying ,Jack?
I know what I like...I like console games.....and, most of the games I
like are Japanese in origin....since I have a PC, and most people have a
computer in their homes, if someone wanted to play PC titles, they'd just
play them ON the PC they've got.0
> " Killer Control"? How about Resident Evil, Dino crisis? Do those
> games have "killer control"? Hardly. IN fact, I will even go so far
> as to say most of the PSX games I have played have had SHIT control.
> Especially the RE series, Tomb Raider, Tenchu. I thought Colony
> Wars had GREAT control, along with Gameday 98 and NHL 98, but to me,
> the great controlling PSX games were few and far between. I Thought the
> PSX control scheme was far, far, FAR weaker than the one for the N64.
Well, for the record, I hate the conrol in the RE series of games...those
aren't the titles I'm was talking about when refering to "console"
games...yes, they are console games...but I'm mainly talking about arcade
type games and action, platform, shooters, etc.....I guess it's hard to
break any of this down into "rules" and such....but ...well....I dunno, I
lost myself here...hehe.
Greg
=====================================================================
AOL Instant Messenger Handle: Parodius
=====================================================================
PLUG: Dilbert Season 2: Tues @ 9:30/8:30 c on UPN
NEXT EP: "The Assistant" - Dilbert gets promoted to management and
gets an annoying assistant voiced by Andy Dick. Tom Green cameo, too!
=====================================================================
Jarno Kaarinen
>> and
>> writing off the possibility of x-box entering the asian market
>> successfully is a little premature (albeit an unlikely event I agree).
>
>I think it's an incredibly safe bet. No foreign-to-Japan console has ever
>been a success there nor has had any significant amount of Japanese
>developers. In addition, MS hasn't been very successful at promoting
>standards in Japan, like the failed MSX home computer. It was actually IBM
Now that you mention MSX, didn't it do great in Japan, but failed in
US? Almost all of its games seemed to be exclusively Japanese, and it
seemed to me worldwide MSX failed, even with its success in Japan.
Maybe we will get back to that era where Western and Eastern world
will mostly play different game systems? After all there were other
consoles and gaming systems too which were popular in Japan but widely
unknown in Western world.
Jarno Kaarinen
>> Its software will not be compatible with PCs, but the hardware will be branded Microsoft.
>
>So does this mean that the X-box won't play PC/Windows (DirectX) games
>then?
Could be, but I think it will be super easy to port PC games to X-Box,
them having similar CPUs, graphics chips, APIs.
Jarno Kaarinen
>X-Box will never provide the same kind of eye candy as the PS2 will. The
>problem is it'll be running PC games, which are designed for the lowest
>common denominator of PC machines.
I think that article clearly said it is not compatible with PC
software. So X-Box needs its own set of "PC games", it seems. Maybe
they are very easy to port from existing PC games though.
Jarno Kaarinen
>X-Box is another Jaguar or 3DO...it's no threat. It's just a machine put
>together by people with money, but no clue as to how the console market
>works. Unless they've got Japanese 3rd Party Support, no one's going to
>care.
First of all I think they already have agreement with Konami, and I
think you are wrong about no one caring if there are no Japanese
developers. It depends on the games, not the nationality of them.
Before you start listing Mario64, FF7, MGS etc. as examples why the
nationality is important, don't forget about Rayman 2 (better than
Mario64), Planescape Torment (better than FF7), Thief (better than
MGS), none of which are Japanese games.
I think it would be actually refreshing to get a console with mostly
non-Japanese games. I could buy PSX2 for Japanese games and X-Box for
western games.
Jarno Kaarinen
>Not to mention that i could not sit in my front room with a box that has
>Microshaft on it....... i get more than enough when i turn my computer on :(
All those millions of people who bought Dreamcast didn't seem to mind
MS's involvements. In fact I think for most consumers MS involvements
is seen as an advantage. The little nerds who hate MS are in the
minority, overall.
Jarno Kaarinen
>People are already playing those on the PC....those aren't the type of
>titles that sell consoles. Sports games, Japanese style RPGs, and Arcade
>properties are what sell consoles.
They sell consoles because currently they are the only games available
for consoles. Which was first, chicken or egg? You can't really say
that if there were more western games on certain console, it would
sell that console more.
Jarno Kaarinen
>"Darien Allen" <darienNO...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:lcuaasocre5j4f145...@4ax.com...
>: Price point of $149-$349 depending on the price of PS2 at that time.
>
>Hmm... this definately sounds like Microsoft. Maybe they'll make X-Box free
>until Nintendo and Sega both get eaten up by bigger companies and Sony drops
>out of the market.
Yeah, Nintendo and Sony are always saints, as we know. Not
anticompetitive ever, no siree! ;-)
Jarno Kaarinen
>: Deja Vu... these very same words were pronounced by many analysts
>: in-the-know some 5 years ago when a certain little company called Sony
>: decided to develop a video game.
>
>Let's reword that statement to "but no clue to how the entertainment
>industry works". While I adamantly refuse to acknowledge Sony as a truly
>full-fledged game consoler, as I regard Sega, Nintendo, Atari, SNK and their
>likes as, Sony has Entertainment experience. It's made movies. It's made
>games. It makes the stuff you watch movies and play video games on. Put 2
>and 2 together. They had an idea.
Microsoft has similar experience, because Microsoft has made and
published lots of great game peripherals (joysticks, steering
wheel/pedal systems, innovative gamepads like FreeStyle Pro) and lots
of great games. Microsoft had also had a great working online gaming
system for years, so they definitely have more experience on that
field than either Sega or Sony (or Nintendo, if they are also going
towards online gaming).
So what were you saying again? ;-)
>Microsoft doesn't have a clue. It has an Operating System, an Office Suite,
>a bunch of programs people complain all the time about, and a pair of
>worthwile entertainment titles, "Flight Simulator" and "Entertainment Pack".
You don't have a clue in this case. Microsoft has published lots of
great game titles (latest example would be Age of Empires 2, which is
selling great and is praised everywhere), they have made the best PC
game controllers for years (innovative controllers like Freestyle Pro
and Sidewinder 3D Pro), and they have had a working online gaming
system for several years (four years or so). They have lots of
experience already in the entertainment field. More than what Sony had
when they were releasing Playstation.
Jarno Kaarinen
>Rut?! Console gaming is the biggest entertainment industry in the world!
>Play Crazy Taxi and tell me console gaming's in a rut...
I played Crazy Taxi on PC years ago, it was called Quarantine. And
Crazy Taxi is an arcade port anyway.
Jarno Kaarinen
>"John Kitchar" <jkit...@netpci.com> wrote in message
>news:884og...@enews4.newsguy.com...
>> I wonder if EA will support it. That is, are they developing games early
>> enough for XB launch or will they wait until it sells "5 million"?
>
>They'll probably support it. As it stands, the Dreamcast is the only
>next-gen system that EA isn't supporting.
As a sidenote, didn't EA just announce that they are now supporting
also Dreamcast?
Jarno Kaarinen
>Another marketplace that Microsoft thinks they can win by throwing money
>at it.
Sony thought the same with Playstation, and see where we are now.
Raymond McKeithen II
Jarno Kaarinen <ja...@remotel.com> wrote in message
news:QZimOB=k4KUBro6Pa=ptocE...@131.228.6.99...
> "Raymond McKeithen II" <rfmc...@suchiepaijas.net> wrote:
>
> >> and
> >> writing off the possibility of x-box entering the asian market
> >> successfully is a little premature (albeit an unlikely event I agree).
> >
> >I think it's an incredibly safe bet. No foreign-to-Japan console has ever
> >been a success there nor has had any significant amount of Japanese
> >developers. In addition, MS hasn't been very successful at promoting
> >standards in Japan, like the failed MSX home computer. It was actually
IBM
>
> Now that you mention MSX, didn't it do great in Japan, but failed in
> US? Almost all of its games seemed to be exclusively Japanese, and it
> seemed to me worldwide MSX failed, even with its success in Japan.
>
It wasn't released in the US, how could it fail here? It didn't do great in
Japan either, that was the point.
neo_zo...@hotmail.com
Muskie <mi...@wans.net> wrote:
>
> huh? Are you telling me Americans can't make good games? Are you
> saying no one cares about games made by Americans? Is Japanese 3rd
> party support essential to console buyers in the U.S.A.?
US companies make few, if any console-style games. All Microsoft can
really do is draw gamers away from the PC.
> The X-box will have it's online support right out of the box.
> Microsoft has a HUGE gaming network.
Online gaming is the current domain of the PC. Consoles games are
typically designed to be played on a single machine. Again, Microsoft
is competing with PC titles more than with console titles.
> A few stellar titles such as Half Life, Q3, The Sims, Falcon 5.0,
> Thief, ect, could hook gamers for a long time. Add to that excellent
> multiplayer support, and you have games with great replay value.
PC-style games, yes. Where are the fighters, shooters, platformers,
console-style RPG's, etc? You know, the kind of games people buy
consoles for? If someone wants FPS's and sims, they buy a PC. If
someone wants online gaming, they buy a PC.
> Alot of people I speak with just aren't that thrilled with alot of the
> recent console games. It's kind of the "same old, same old". I think
> online access will help alleviate the rut that console gaming
> currently finds itself in.
More attempts to hide your narrow-mindedness, Muskie? There is no rut,
no more so than on the PC. Console gaming, even on a system as old as
the PSX, continues to thrive. It simply isn't new and shiny enough for
you anymore. There are MANY excellent titles on their way for the aging
PSX.
-ZFP
neo_zo...@hotmail.com
Muskie <mi...@wans.net> wrote:
>
> Games like HAlf Life, The Sims, Thief, Unreal TOurney, Quake 3, Worms,
> Falcon 5.0 are INCREDIBLY fun. And the replay value on these titles
> is light years ahead of the console games(sans the sports titles).
Nope. Online != replay value. I'm not interested in playing games
with anyone I can't see or hear. Having the people you're playing
against right there with you is part of the fun of multi-player.
Without that, all you're really left with is a more realistic AI.
That's great for people looking for straight action, but not for people
who want multiplayer gaming to be a more social experience.
> >design sense,
>
> Wrong. The good console games have no more of an intricate design
> "sense" than good PC games do.
Debateble.
> >creativity,
>
> Don't think so. The creative PC titles are just as creative as the
> good CONSOLE titles. Who's propoganda are you buying ,Jack?
You'd know all about propoganda, wouldn't you? At least you didn't try
to claim console developers weren't creative...
> >and killer control that Japanese produced titles have.
>
> " Killer Control"? How about Resident Evil, Dino crisis? Do those
> games have "killer control"? Hardly.
RE's control is just fine. Without the "up is forward" setup, running
from screen to screen would be impossible.
> IN fact, I will even go so far as to say most of the PSX games I have
> played have had SHIT control. Especially the RE series, Tomb Raider,
> Tenchu. I thought Colony Wars had GREAT control, along with
> Gameday 98 and NHL 98, but to me, the great controlling PSX games were
> few and far between.
The games you've played enough to have a worthwile opinion on are few
and far between.
> The best control I ever experienced in a home game was/is Half Life.
Naturally, even though I'm willing to bet the deafault control scheme is
pretty much the same as Doom(and every other FPS)...
> > A system that relies on a few American based
> > companies is not going to have a good selection of quality
> > titles....just a bunch of Doom clones....gah.
>
> Huh?
>
> Where does this comment come from? FPS come out less often on the PC
> than RPG's do on the PSX. Go figure.
Nope, that's just wrong.
> > People are already playing those on the PC....those aren't the type
> > of titles that sell consoles.
>
> You don't think Q3 and Half Life can sell consoles? lol!
No more than FFVIII is going to sell PC's.
> You get those two games converted PROPERLY to a console, and set up an
> online gaming network, and my friend...those two games will change
> consoles forever.
Not really. It will just be an improvement over Goldeneye's split
screen, not something that will "change consoles forever".
> TFC, all the Quake mods ect.
You can't make mods for a console. No development tools, no interface
to build levels with, no place to store them...
> > Sports games, Japanese style RPGs, and Arcade properties are what
> > sell consoles.
>
> Who made up these rules? You?
>
> Good games are what should sell consoles. Genre is irrellevent.
Don't you pay any attention to the gaming industry? If you want FPS's,
sims, RTS's, etc., you don't buy a console. If you want to make
something that will compete with a console, you need console-style
games, not just PC ports.
> > I agree that the industry is kind of in a "gerneric" place right
> > now, but PC-style games aren't what will save the console market.
>
> PC style games wont save the console market, but expanding the
> consoles with online connectivity will expand the life of CONSOLE
> games which is one of the reasons it is so stagnant lately. The games
> just don't have that much replay value.
Sure they do, they just aren't online, so you bash them because you're
too narrow-minded to accept that not all genres need online support, or
even multiplayer support. Heck, a 60+ hour RPG doesn't even really need
replay value!
Muskie
? Do you mean ARCADE games? What exactly IS a "console style game"?
And who makes up these invisible rules? I always thought a console
game was a game you play on a console, wether it be a FPS, shooter,
strategy, adventure, 2d scroller ect.
> All Microsoft can
> really do is draw gamers away from the PC.
Pure speculation. I bet many said the same thing about the PSX.
.
>
> Online gaming is the current domain of the PC. Consoles games are
> typically designed to be played on a single machine. Again, Microsoft
> is competing with PC titles more than with console titles.
What? Console games are being designed RIGHT NOW to be played online.
Look at PHantasy STARr, FF11, Half Life, Q3. Sorry gang, these wierd
invisible " rules" just don't apply any more. We are almost to the
point of passing this all up.
> PC-style games, yes.
Huh? Just games man, just games. Do you not understand that yet?
It's all merging together. The little made up boundaries everyone is
so fond of are going BYE-BYE.
Where are the fighters, shooters, platformers,
> console-style RPG's, etc?
Last time I checked, FF8 is available on the PC. PC's also helped spawn
the fighting genre, with games like KAROTE--THe Ancient ART.
> More attempts to hide your narrow-mindedness, Muskie? There is no
rut,
> no more so than on the PC.
No offense NEO, but anyone can plainly see the PSX offerings lately
have been absolute garbage.
---Muskie
Ben
> "Ben Sanders" <ohw...@lost.com> wrote:
>
> >Not to mention that i could not sit in my front room with a box that has
> >Microshaft on it....... i get more than enough when i turn my computer on
:(
>
> All those millions of people who bought Dreamcast didn't seem to mind
> MS's involvements.
Most of them were probably oblivious untill they brought the system. The OS
wouldn't have stopped anyone buying the DC tho.
In fact I think for most consumers MS involvements
> is seen as an advantage.
How so??
The little nerds who hate MS are in the
> minority, overall.
First of all i'm not little :)
there is a reason i dislike Microsoft (in fact a number)it's not that every
OS since 6.22 is buggy cause thats a very cliche thing to say (not to
mention that even DOS 6 was buggy).
My primary reason for disliking MS is their blatant disregard for their
customers.
Have you ever bothered ringing MS product support *LOL* If you have an image
of microsoft being a consumer hero you are in for a big shock when you ring
them.
Credit where credit is due tho the knowledge base SOMETIMES throws back the
correct answer nowadays.
--
Ben
rchri...@my-deja.com
ste...@vt.edu wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:35:20 -0500, "Phillip Roncoroni"
> <goodc...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Damn... I don't give a shit.
>
> Whether you're a console fan, a PC fan, or both, you *better* pay
> attention. This is going to have a major effect on the gaming market
> whethr you care or not :)
>
> -s-
No it isn't.
rchri...@my-deja.com
> news:38a5a46d...@news.vtacs.com...
> > On Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:35:20 -0500, "Phillip Roncoroni"
> > <goodc...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >Damn... I don't give a shit.
> >
> > Whether you're a console fan, a PC fan, or both, you *better* pay
> > attention. This is going to have a major effect on the gaming
market
> > whethr you care or not :)
> >
>
> issues, only games.
>
> In the US, *maybe* it'll be a success. In Japan (the only place that
*I*
> give a "$hit" about) incredibly unlikely. If I wanted to play US "PC
style"
> games I'd play PC games...
>
> Why everyone assumes just because MS does something it'll
automatically be a
> success is beyond me. Anyone remember Bob?
>
Heh. I was juuuust thinking about Bob. :)
Ben
by we do you me you and sony or do you mean the industry. Cause on first
read that sounded like your a sony exec.
:)
--
Ben
zeadeATboink.stanford.edu
>
>FWIW, Gamefan is reporting it's a 1Ghz CPU.
>http://www.gamefan.com/hotinfo.asp?s=5223&rs=3
Huh, 1Ghz. I wonder what kind of heat distribution they'll have for their
CPU. Maybe it'll double as a hot plate. MS X-Box will do it all: Games,
DVDs and fried eggs. Prolly does a crappy cup of Java tho ;)
huzzah,
Micah
--
perl -e's;^;nsiC%by:n19%o>o2z4on19%`"t2z`fn3o.%.2o.z.2o.g4og.5o.g.4o.4%;;\
s;$;f%.2o.n`fP"Y2>bP"Y2>bz`fzd2>t%`"Y>%`Pz)2>bgfP"Y2>bn%p#f8%.oP"#n%p#p;;\
s;$;.o>%d>(z#n____`Y>bod>Pt%`Yf2">o%__n;;s;#;ppfz;g;s;p;fg;g;s;_;ofo%;g;;\
s;z;2%;g;s;g;3%;g;s;f;3>;g;s;(\d+)(.);$2x$1;eg;y;t>%nC;\x278 \ng;;print;'
The Speedster
It was slow as hell and you had to wait for the cursor to catch up with
you.
conANDave wrote:
>
> "Muskie" <mi...@wans.net> wrote in message
> news:88729f$75s$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> : Games like HAlf Life, The Sims, Thief, Unreal TOurney, Quake 3, Worms,
>
> If the folks at Maxis/EA decide they want to make a console version of "The
> Sims" (which is THE title I've been waiting for this new year, along with
> SimMars, and hasn't disappointed. Go Maxis! Now, hows about a new SimTower,
> and maybe a bug-free, more detailed, and cleaned up version of SimCopter?),
> please please please be careful and watch the mistakes they've made with
> SimCity for SNES and SimCity 2000 for N64-Japan. While I've only played the
> SimCity for SNES, it was crap. And from what I hear of SC2K for N64, it's
> crap too.
neo_zo...@hotmail.com
Muskie <mi...@wans.net> wrote:
>
> > US companies make few, if any console-style games.
>
> ? Do you mean ARCADE games? What exactly IS a "console style game"?
Platformers, fighters, shooters, arcade ports, console RPG's, that sort
of thing
> And who makes up these invisible rules?
It's not a "rule", Muskie, it's just the way things are.
> I always thought a console game was a game you play on a console,
> wether it be a FPS, shooter, strategy, adventure, 2d scroller ect.
Some genres are better represented on consoles, just like some are
better represented on the PC. It's a fact of life.
> > All Microsoft can really do is draw gamers away from the PC.
>
> Pure speculation. I bet many said the same thing about the PSX.
It wouldn't make any sense to say that. Most PSX hits aren't available
on the PC, and vice versa. If the X-box is just going to be a black-box
gaming PC, all it will really end up competing with is the PC. Unless
they can sign on big Japanese console developers, it just won't have a
big impact on console sales.
> > Online gaming is the current domain of the PC. Consoles games are
> > typically designed to be played on a single machine. Again,
> > Microsoft is competing with PC titles more than with console titles.
>
> What? Console games are being designed RIGHT NOW to be played online.
> Look at PHantasy STARr, FF11, Half Life, Q3. Sorry gang, these wierd
> invisible " rules" just don't apply any more. We are almost to the
> point of passing this all up.
Passing what up? These aren't "invisible rules", they're just common
sense. You want online gaming? Get a PC. The games are there, the
support is there, the hardware is there, and the PC isn't set up to
allow multiple players on a single machine anyway. The PC NEEDS online
capabilities to support multiplayer games. Consoles have always trived
on 1 and 2 player genres and single-unit multiplayer. Online support
will be good for PC ports and for eliminating the split-screen required
for 1rst person games, but beyond that, it's more of a novelty than
anything else.
> > PC-style games, yes.
>
> Huh? Just games man, just games. Do you not understand that yet?
> It's all merging together. The little made up boundaries everyone is
> so fond of are going BYE-BYE.
Nope. No one "made up" any boundaries, they simply exist. You can't
try to compete in the console market with PC style games. No one bought
a console looking for Half-Life, Thief, or the Sims. They bought a
console for games like Mario, Tekken, and FF. Until those games start
coming out on Microsoft's machine, it just won't be able to make a big
impact in the console market.
Besides, I thought you said you liked choices. If it's all merging
together, where are the choices?
> > Where are the fighters, shooters, platformers, console-style RPG's,
> > etc?
>
> Last time I checked, FF8 is available on the PC. PC's also helped
> spawn the fighting genre, with games like KAROTE--THe Ancient ART.
Yet, the fighting genre is not really represented on the PC, and games
like FF8 get a lukewarm reception. FF8 sold millions of copies to PSX
owners, of course, because they bought consoles for games like that. No
one bought a PC for FF8.
> > More attempts to hide your narrow-mindedness, Muskie? There is no
> > rut, no more so than on the PC.
>
> No offense NEO, but anyone can plainly see the PSX offerings lately
> have been absolute garbage.
Garbage like SR, you mean? Garbage like FF8? No, there have been
plenty of great games released for the PSX, with more on the way.
Chrono Cross? Fear Factor? Vagrant Story? All very highly
anticipated. Galerians looks interesting as well, as do some of
Square's other offerings.
Your narrow-minded attitude is showing again, Muskie. Just because it's
not online with cutting-edge graphics doesn't make it a bad game. Just
because you don't like it doesn't mean it's a bad game either.
-ZFP
Jarno Kaarinen
>Failed MSX home computer? Did the MSX have anything to do with
>Microsoft at all? I thought that the only thing Microsoft was known for
Microsoft had part in it, yes.
>Maybe you have a different MSX in mind, but I thought the MSX was kind
>of like a gaming console. There was an MSX Classics collection by Namco
It was a home computer based largely on internals of Colecovision
console. I find it funny thought that the other guy used MSX as an
example how Microsoft is unable to make their products popular in
Japan, because I always thought MSX was popular in Japan, but flopped
in US. Thus all the Japanese games for it (anyone for the original
Metal Gear (not the rehashed Nintendo version) or Metal Gear 2?).
>If the MSX was by Microsoft, I'd be very surprised. :/
They were one party in producing that "home computer standard". It was
supposed to make a standard in home computer world, just like IBM PC
compatibles already were in corporate world.
Jarno Kaarinen
>"NonDeskript" <ten...@knuf.rd> wrote in message
>news:MPG.1310cca7a...@news.pdq.net...
>: Um, you do know that M$ publishes far more entertainment titles than just
>: those two, right?
>
>Key word: worthwile
So what "worthwhile" games had Sony made before releasing Playstation?
Maany people seem to think that Microsoft games like Age of Empires
1-2, Close Combat 1-2, whole Flight Simulator series, Midtown Madness,
Outwars, Asheron's Call, Motocross Madness, Monster Truck Madness 2
etc. were not only worthwhile, but great games.
Add to that their great game controllers and the online game zone that
has been running for years: Like it or not, Microsoft has already lots
of experience when it comes to gaming. Maybe not in making Japanese 3D
fighters, but that is a different matter.
EvaUnit02
-Eva
freshie
wrote:
>"Darien Allen" <darienNO...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:lcuaasocre5j4f145...@4ax.com...
>: Price point of $149-$349 depending on the price of PS2 at that time.
>
>Hmm... this definately sounds like Microsoft. Maybe they'll make X-Box free
>until Nintendo and Sega both get eaten up by bigger companies and Sony drops
>out of the market.
Close. Honestly I don't think this is a market area, MicroSoft is all
that interested in. What they are trying to do instead is hedge
against Sony's claim that the PSX2 will be the super-console that
cedes more into PC-like functionality.
terrell gibbs
<ge...@nervhq.org> wrote:
>As I thought before I read the original post too. If the X-Box supports
>these, I'll probably buy one. But the original post speculated it would
>*not* support PC games.
It seems unlikely that it will support standard PC games; for that, it would
need a keyboard. On the other hand, if it is functionally a PC, the adaptation
is likely to be so trivial that most major PC games will be released for it.
Jarno Kaarinen
>> All those millions of people who bought Dreamcast didn't seem to mind
>> MS's involvements.
>
>Most of them were probably oblivious untill they brought the system. The OS
Or then they simply didn't care.
>In fact I think for most consumers MS involvements
>> is seen as an advantage.
>
>How so??
Name recognition, just like with Nintendo and Sega.
Ben
> "Ben" <benj...@demon.net> wrote:
>
> >In fact I think for most consumers MS involvements
> >> is seen as an advantage.
> >
> >How so??
>
> Name recognition, just like with Nintendo and Sega.
>
You mean core/brand values,,,
I ask you to find a quote that says " I brought a SEGA DC because of the MS
OS"
^^^^^^^
Do you recognise the
name/brand?
You've obviously only dealt with MS products but not their after sales
services :(
I agree that having a 'big name' on board tends to give you more exposure
but i don't think this is the case with MS, many people are genuinely
cynical about their 'products'. For good reason i hasten to add.
Ask joe bloggs on the street and they will know what the Bsod is and what Os
it occurs on.
In my opinion MS is a joke OS which still has to be used :( ....... who
knows my opinion may change with win 2k
--
Ben
Those are my opinions, if you do not like them i have others. :)
Perry Denton
terrell gibbs <tgi...@bu.edu> wrote:
>
>It seems unlikely that it will support standard PC games; for that, it would
>need a keyboard. On the other hand, if it is functionally a PC, the adaptation
>is likely to be so trivial that most major PC games will be released for it.
For Microsoft to make money, they should charge a nominal fee
to include some recognition code within each X-Box approved game.
The fee could be a set $10K, or perhaps 50 cents per game pressed.
The game itself could strip out PC menus and replace them
with X-Box menus, self configure the controller to the
standard X-Box joystick and set the graphics mode to a default
of 640x480, or whatever the X-Box can handle. I imagine this
could be a cut-and-paste coding job that would take less than a day.
I see a win-win for Microsoft and the PC game industry with
this approach. It would be an easy way for Microsoft to get
a cut of the profits of every game produced for the PC/XBox.
Perry
--
--
Perry Denton
Motorola, Inc.
Schaumburg, Illinois
Phone: (847) 538-7195
NonDeskript
> "NonDeskript" <ten...@knuf.rd> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1310cca7a...@news.pdq.net...
> : Um, you do know that M$ publishes far more entertainment titles than just
> : those two, right?
>
> Key word: worthwile
Ok, you do know that M$ publishes far more WORTHWHILE entertainment
titles than just those two, right?
-David
NonDeskript
> Initially there were several rumors about X-Box that more recent rumors
> have disputed. Namely that it would be an open platform console, be
> sold by several hardware manufacturers, and be fully compatible with PC
> games.
But, if you think about it, thats a ridiculous idea. #1 PC games almost
always require mouse/keyboard so it would have to ship with both of
those. #2 PC games almost always require large hard disks to install. It
would be a hassle having to uninstall and install a new game everytime
you want to play. #3 PC games almost always require patches, which is
something that is unheard of in the console market.
The whole paradigm of how consoles work vs how PCs work makes the
prospect of a console playing PC games out of the box almost nil. I don't
know where those rumors came from, I never saw them on any reputable news
site, but they are rididculous when you actually think about it. If you
want to play PC games, you'll just have to get a PC or wait for them to
be ported to other systems.
-David
Darien Allen
<ja...@remotel.com> we were graced with this statement:
Where did you see this?
------------------------
Darien Allen
ICQ-2927081