I've noticed that people seem to have similar tastes in a lot of things like graphics, sound, physics... Which isn't surprising since in general it's pretty straightforward to judge whether one game's graphics/sound are more convincing or realistic than another's(of course, not always). IOW, almost anyone would agree Soul Calibur looks nicer than Killer Instinct Gold, for example. But I've noticed that with the issue of control, tastes seem to vary a lot more. There are people who love Resident Evil's control style and others who hate it...a lot of people love the Turok default setting and seems like just as many people prefer Goldeneye's default setting....
So just kind of curious to see if any if us will at least agree on a game or style that we feel is the worst.. I personally hate Omikron's control style more than any other game..Just because I think third person free camera games work best with analog control... But I may be in the minority there. I'd like to hear everyone else's opinions....
I've noticed that people seem to have similar tastes in a lot of things like graphics, sound, physics... Which isn't surprising since in general it's pretty straightforward to judge whether one game's graphics/sound are more convincing or realistic than another's(of course, not always). IOW, almost anyone would agree Soul Calibur looks nicer than Killer Instinct Gold, for example. But I've noticed that with the issue of control, tastes seem to vary a lot more. There are people who love Resident Evil's control style and others who hate it...a lot of people love the Turok default setting and seems like just as many people prefer Goldeneye's default setting....
So just kind of curious to see if any if us will at least agree on a game or style that we feel is the worst.. I personally hate Omikron's control style more than any other game..Just because I think third person free camera games work best with analog control... But I may be in the minority there. I'd like to hear everyone else's opinions..
If you don't know me by now... wrote in message <19404-384F4E75...@storefull-114.iap.bryant.webtv.net>... The control set-up for Shadow Man on the DC is fairly twitchy, but with a little practice you can compensate for it, for the most part....
Bob
What's wrong with the control setup? It's no more clumsy than the setup in Zelda or Soul Reaver for instance. Nothing is ever far out of reach, it's easy to lock onto an enemy and strafe, it's easy to switch between weapons and use your inventory and the camera doesn't get in the way. I've never had a problem with this setup at all, in fact it's one of the best I've ever been presented with in a 3d action game.
> I've noticed that people seem to have similar tastes in a lot of things > like graphics, sound, physics... Which isn't surprising since in general > it's pretty straightforward to judge whether one game's graphics/sound > are more convincing or realistic than another's(of course, not always). > IOW, almost anyone would agree Soul Calibur looks nicer than Killer > Instinct Gold, for example.
Yes. Gee, does anything _not_ look better than that? :^)
> But I've noticed that with the issue of > control, tastes seem to vary a lot more.
I don't like Soul Calibur's control. For one, I've had many times when my attempt to run away made my character duck instead. The eight way run is poorly implemented I find although a good idea (Power Stone just handles it _better_). Second, blocking is a pain because it's far too difficult to tell where a particular attack is striking since they're all too flashy and elaborate to quickly determine where it will strike. The whole "vertical" and "horizontal" attack seems a bit ridiculous to me since often time those buttons do anything but, but at least it's not as bad as assigning one button to each limb. (I can picture Tekken 4 using a butt button, a head button, a chest button....)
> There are people who love > Resident Evil's control style and others who hate it...a lot of people > love the Turok default setting and seems like just as many people prefer > Goldeneye's default setting....
The lil bit of Resident Evil I've played gave me the impression that it was meant for a mouse, not a joypad.
> So just kind of curious to see if any if us will at least agree on a > game or style that we feel is the worst.. I personally hate Omikron's > control style more than any other game..Just because I think third > person free camera games work best with analog control... But I may be > in the minority there. I'd like to hear everyone else's opinions....
Croc has the worst control ever of the games I've played. Terrible camera work and a terrible control implementation. I also don't care for analog control, period, and have yet to see a console game that really benefits from its use. Analog controllers seem to accept three different phases of response: the first is usually _really_ slow movement, the second is for some kind of slow walk, and the third (when the stick is pushed farthest) is a quick run. I have _never_ seen anyone use the first two... unless, of course, the stick is broken. :^) Actually, the only game to use analog perfectly was NiGHTS, but I'm inclined to think that's more because of the controller rotation required for looping, which makes the analog ergonomically better suited to the game than a digital pad.
Analog may be fine for driving games, but, those, too, don't seem to handle as well as digital. The "gap" between the three levels of analog don't allow for a continuous sense of control and predictability I like in a game so heavily reliant on the controller's movements. That is, I don't like having to turn my vehicle from phase one to phase two without having much input on how much I wish to turn. With digital, I can at least tap the controller to the extent I want to adjust my movements. Still, I can somewhat understand why people would like such control in a driving game, though... but a platform game? A fighter? A puzzle game? "RPG?" hehe
Here's a quickie poll: How many people play Power Stone or Soul Calibur with the D-pad rather than the analog stick? Granted, the games weren't designed with analog control in mind, but it's _a lot_ more intuitive to use the digital pad than the other. Does anyone _really_ think analog control gives them 360 degrees of movement? Is that much movement even necessary?
The Super StarWars trilogy on the Snes, and any game with the same mechanics. Maybe I was missing something, but I could never really get good at those games, enemies just kept mobbing me and hitting me and I didn't have the moves to really defend myself. These games sucked for me because of this, keep in mind that I was playing Revenge of Shinobi and Shinobi 3 at the time and was used to being able to master controls and take out the enemies with them.
Benjamin wrote in message <384FB5A3.45EF4...@tmbg.org>... >retr...@my-deja.com wrote:
>> I've noticed that people seem to have similar tastes in a lot of things >> like graphics, sound, physics... Which isn't surprising since in general >> it's pretty straightforward to judge whether one game's graphics/sound >> are more convincing or realistic than another's(of course, not always). >> IOW, almost anyone would agree Soul Calibur looks nicer than Killer >> Instinct Gold, for example.
>Yes. Gee, does anything _not_ look better than that? :^)
>> But I've noticed that with the issue of >> control, tastes seem to vary a lot more.
>I don't like Soul Calibur's control. For one, I've had many times when >my attempt to run away made my character duck instead. The eight way run >is poorly implemented I find although a good idea (Power Stone just >handles it _better_). Second, blocking is a pain because it's far too >difficult to tell where a particular attack is striking since they're >all too flashy and elaborate to quickly determine where it will strike. >The whole "vertical" and "horizontal" attack seems a bit ridiculous to >me since often time those buttons do anything but, but at least it's not >as bad as assigning one button to each limb. (I can picture Tekken 4 >using a butt button, a head button, a chest button....)
>> There are people who love >> Resident Evil's control style and others who hate it...a lot of people >> love the Turok default setting and seems like just as many people prefer >> Goldeneye's default setting....
>The lil bit of Resident Evil I've played gave me the impression that it >was meant for a mouse, not a joypad.
>> So just kind of curious to see if any if us will at least agree on a >> game or style that we feel is the worst.. I personally hate Omikron's >> control style more than any other game..Just because I think third >> person free camera games work best with analog control... But I may be >> in the minority there. I'd like to hear everyone else's opinions....
>Croc has the worst control ever of the games I've played. Terrible >camera work and a terrible control implementation. I also don't care for >analog control, period, and have yet to see a console game that really >benefits from its use. Analog controllers seem to accept three different >phases of response: the first is usually _really_ slow movement, the >second is for some kind of slow walk, and the third (when the stick is >pushed farthest) is a quick run. I have _never_ seen anyone use the >first two... unless, of course, the stick is broken. :^) Actually, the >only game to use analog perfectly was NiGHTS, but I'm inclined to think >that's more because of the controller rotation required for looping, >which makes the analog ergonomically better suited to the game than a >digital pad.
>Analog may be fine for driving games, but, those, too, don't seem to >handle as well as digital. The "gap" between the three levels of analog >don't allow for a continuous sense of control and predictability I like >in a game so heavily reliant on the controller's movements. That is, I >don't like having to turn my vehicle from phase one to phase two without >having much input on how much I wish to turn. With digital, I can at >least tap the controller to the extent I want to adjust my movements. >Still, I can somewhat understand why people would like such control in a >driving game, though... but a platform game? A fighter? A puzzle game? >"RPG?" hehe
>Here's a quickie poll: How many people play Power Stone or Soul Calibur >with the D-pad rather than the analog stick? Granted, the games weren't >designed with analog control in mind, but it's _a lot_ more intuitive to >use the digital pad than the other. Does anyone _really_ think analog >control gives them 360 degrees of movement? Is that much movement even >necessary?
I always loved the style of tomb raider. But I hate the waty it controls worse than any game ever. You touch the buttons and she bounces along. the responce is to slow and lose. I'm sure that after I played for a couple of hours I would get used to it but I don't have that kind of attention span. I love the control in Soul Reaver. How could one company do so good and suck so bad?
<retr...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:82na0c$b2g$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > I've noticed that people seem to have similar tastes in a lot of things > like graphics, sound, physics... Which isn't surprising since in general > it's pretty straightforward to judge whether one game's graphics/sound > are more convincing or realistic than another's(of course, not always). > IOW, almost anyone would agree Soul Calibur looks nicer than Killer > Instinct Gold, for example. But I've noticed that with the issue of > control, tastes seem to vary a lot more. There are people who love > Resident Evil's control style and others who hate it...a lot of people > love the Turok default setting and seems like just as many people prefer > Goldeneye's default setting....
> So just kind of curious to see if any if us will at least agree on a > game or style that we feel is the worst.. I personally hate Omikron's > control style more than any other game..Just because I think third > person free camera games work best with analog control... But I may be > in the minority there. I'd like to hear everyone else's opinions....
> I always loved the style of tomb raider. But I hate the waty it controls > worse than any game ever. You touch the buttons and she bounces along. the > responce is to slow and lose. I'm sure that after I played for a couple of > hours I would get used to it but I don't have that kind of attention span. > I love the control in Soul Reaver. How could one company do so good and > suck so bad?
----------- Eidos is a publisher not a developer. Crystal Dynamics developed Soul Reaver, CORE has done the TR games. By the way, I don't agree about TR controls being loose. They're actually very precise, but they do take quite a while to get the hang of. --mike g.
> I always loved the style of tomb raider. But I hate the waty it controls > worse than any game ever. You touch the buttons and she bounces along. the > responce is to slow and lose. I'm sure that after I played for a couple of > hours I would get used to it but I don't have that kind of attention span. > I love the control in Soul Reaver. How could one company do so good and > suck so bad?
Simple, one company was Core (Tomb Raider) the other was Chrystal Dynamics (Soul Reaver).
Also, Tomb Raider was one of the first 3rd-person 3-D adventure games, and they have been using the same tired old engine for every TR game.
<retr...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:82na0c$b2g$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > I've noticed that people seem to have similar tastes in a lot of things > like graphics, sound, physics... Which isn't surprising since in general > it's pretty straightforward to judge whether one game's graphics/sound > are more convincing or realistic than another's(of course, not always). > IOW, almost anyone would agree Soul Calibur looks nicer than Killer > Instinct Gold, for example. But I've noticed that with the issue of > control, tastes seem to vary a lot more. There are people who love > Resident Evil's control style and others who hate it...a lot of people > love the Turok default setting and seems like just as many people prefer > Goldeneye's default setting....
> So just kind of curious to see if any if us will at least agree on a > game or style that we feel is the worst.. I personally hate Omikron's > control style more than any other game..Just because I think third > person free camera games work best with analog control... But I may be > in the minority there. I'd like to hear everyone else's opinions....
Well "Mr. Rumor," I can't comment on Omikron since I've never even heard of it (PC game??), but I can say that I truly hate analog control for any type of "action" or "platform" game. All it does is make the control vague and mushy. Various publications claimed in raving about the control in Mario 64 about the "variable speed." In practice it seems the games have about 3 levels of speed, creeping along, full speed, and one step in-between. The only one typically useful is the full-speed, and occasionally the slowest. These two speeds were accomplished more precisely with digital control by either doing a double-tap to dash, or just having the thing speed up after you hold for a predetermined time. The other supposed improvement is 360-degree movement; aside from it making it harder to line things up, 8-way pads/sticks seem more than sufficient.
I accept analog control as being useful with flight sticks and steering wheels and the games that such are made for, but not in "platform" and "exploration" games. I have quite a few gripes about DC Sonic Adventure; many of them stem from its analog control (and the others are about the problems in taking 2D platform games into 3D in general). My view is that Nintendo took a giant step backwards with that little stick on the N64 controller; a step that, unfortunately, the other companies have felt compelled to follow. :(
I don't play FPS so I won't comment on Goldeneye vs. Turok controls.
Raymond McKeithen II wrote: > <retr...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:82na0c$b2g$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > > I've noticed that people seem to have similar tastes in a lot of things > > like graphics, sound, physics... Which isn't surprising since in general > > it's pretty straightforward to judge whether one game's graphics/sound > > are more convincing or realistic than another's(of course, not always). > > IOW, almost anyone would agree Soul Calibur looks nicer than Killer > > Instinct Gold, for example. But I've noticed that with the issue of > > control, tastes seem to vary a lot more. There are people who love > > Resident Evil's control style and others who hate it...a lot of people > > love the Turok default setting and seems like just as many people prefer > > Goldeneye's default setting....
> > So just kind of curious to see if any if us will at least agree on a > > game or style that we feel is the worst.. I personally hate Omikron's > > control style more than any other game..Just because I think third > > person free camera games work best with analog control... But I may be > > in the minority there. I'd like to hear everyone else's opinions....
> Well "Mr. Rumor," I can't comment on Omikron since I've never even heard of > it (PC game??), but I can say that I truly hate analog control for any type > of "action" or "platform" game. All it does is make the control vague and > mushy. Various publications claimed in raving about the control in Mario 64 > about the "variable speed." In practice it seems the games have about 3 > levels of speed, creeping along, full speed, and one step in-between. The > only one typically useful is the full-speed, and occasionally the slowest. > These two speeds were accomplished more precisely with digital control by > either doing a double-tap to dash, or just having the thing speed up after > you hold for a predetermined time. The other supposed improvement is > 360-degree movement; aside from it making it harder to line things up, 8-way > pads/sticks seem more than sufficient.
> I accept analog control as being useful with flight sticks and steering > wheels and the games that such are made for, but not in "platform" and > "exploration" games. I have quite a few gripes about DC Sonic Adventure; > many of them stem from its analog control (and the others are about the > problems in taking 2D platform games into 3D in general). My view is that > Nintendo took a giant step backwards with that little stick on the N64 > controller; a step that, unfortunately, the other companies have felt > compelled to follow. :(
> I don't play FPS so I won't comment on Goldeneye vs. Turok controls.
I don't think he was asking about specific games..but whatever...
For me TR is by far, the worst. 3D games by nature should be analog...2D games make sense with D-pad since there is only one plane of movement, whereas 3D games have infinite planes so limited # of directions of movement is really confining. With a D-pad you can move in 8 directions, period. It would be kinda tough and extremely unintuitive to do things like look around, for example, in games like QuakeII or Mario64. Luckily, a huge majority of developers have the same view.
Benjamin wrote in message <384FB5A3.45EF4...@tmbg.org>... >Here's a quickie poll: How many people play Power Stone or Soul Calibur >with the D-pad rather than the analog stick? Granted, the games weren't >designed with analog control in mind, but it's _a lot_ more intuitive to >use the digital pad than the other. Does anyone _really_ think analog >control gives them 360 degrees of movement? Is that much movement even >necessary?
Power Stone is playable with either. But the style of play changes depending on which you use.
For experiences with other systems: PSX Vigilante 8 can have more exact control with the analog stick. It makes precision jumps easier becuase the wheels recenter when you let go of the stick. But you would never want to play the game with analog control as you lose the special weapon attacks as they were designed to only work with the D-pad. (You can jury-rig all but the mine specials, but it still is too much effort.)
PSX Tobal 2 can play pretty sweet with the Dual Analog pad. It even has a built-in shortcut for the fireball command to make up for the limitations of the analog stick. But again, I play using the D-Pad... The reason? You still can't do some of the moves with the analog stick, you can't do any of the ground throws for example.
PSX Ehrgeiz has a nasty trade-off... I find 360's easier with the stick, and running is better... But the sloppy nature of the stick hurts any other precision movements.
N64 Mario64... I agree with the three speeds comment, and you only actually use two of them. And while the stick gives more range of movement, again the cost is that its not as precise as it could have been with a pad-type control scheme.
From everything I've heard, PSX Ape Escape controls wonderfully with the DAP, excepting the swimming level. It was designed specifically for a DAP controller though, with the regular D-pad not even being an option.
At least Tomb Raider was released before the DAP pad... It relies so heavily on its precision controls that it would have been unplayable with an analog stick. Particularly the jumps which required precise spacing and timing. Such things just could not be handled with an analog control scheme and it would have to been designed with different obstacles and more leeway in the puzzle aspect of the jumps.
If a game is made for analog control specfically then it can work. If analog control is an add-on feature for a game designed around D-pad control, then it will probably fail against the d-pad. The same is true if the analog stick loses too much over the d-pad.
well i can't remember all the way back but the worst control in a game i can remember is hands down slave zero. i'll give anyone a cookie if they can accurately do a forward turning jump <G>. Generally i like the option of being able to use the d-pad in games simply because i am more accurate with it. In games like bond for n64 i have a hard time moving just a little to the right and so on so i would've liked the option of being able to use the d-pad.
> Oh yeah, Star Wars for the 32X. Plain couldn't fly the thing like a > spacecraft should. And forget about the Death Star.
> Anyhow, I use the stick for Power Stone and Soul Calibur. I'm doing fine, > no complaints. Blitz with the D-Pad though.
> Richard.
> Benjamin wrote in message <384FB5A3.45EF4...@tmbg.org>... > >retr...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >> I've noticed that people seem to have similar tastes in a lot of things > >> like graphics, sound, physics... Which isn't surprising since in general > >> it's pretty straightforward to judge whether one game's graphics/sound > >> are more convincing or realistic than another's(of course, not always). > >> IOW, almost anyone would agree Soul Calibur looks nicer than Killer > >> Instinct Gold, for example.
> >Yes. Gee, does anything _not_ look better than that? :^)
> >> But I've noticed that with the issue of > >> control, tastes seem to vary a lot more.
> >I don't like Soul Calibur's control. For one, I've had many times when > >my attempt to run away made my character duck instead. The eight way run > >is poorly implemented I find although a good idea (Power Stone just > >handles it _better_). Second, blocking is a pain because it's far too > >difficult to tell where a particular attack is striking since they're > >all too flashy and elaborate to quickly determine where it will strike. > >The whole "vertical" and "horizontal" attack seems a bit ridiculous to > >me since often time those buttons do anything but, but at least it's not > >as bad as assigning one button to each limb. (I can picture Tekken 4 > >using a butt button, a head button, a chest button....)
> >> There are people who love > >> Resident Evil's control style and others who hate it...a lot of people > >> love the Turok default setting and seems like just as many people prefer > >> Goldeneye's default setting....
> >The lil bit of Resident Evil I've played gave me the impression that it > >was meant for a mouse, not a joypad.
> >> So just kind of curious to see if any if us will at least agree on a > >> game or style that we feel is the worst.. I personally hate Omikron's > >> control style more than any other game..Just because I think third > >> person free camera games work best with analog control... But I may be > >> in the minority there. I'd like to hear everyone else's opinions....
> >Croc has the worst control ever of the games I've played. Terrible > >camera work and a terrible control implementation. I also don't care for > >analog control, period, and have yet to see a console game that really > >benefits from its use. Analog controllers seem to accept three different > >phases of response: the first is usually _really_ slow movement, the > >second is for some kind of slow walk, and the third (when the stick is > >pushed farthest) is a quick run. I have _never_ seen anyone use the > >first two... unless, of course, the stick is broken. :^) Actually, the > >only game to use analog perfectly was NiGHTS, but I'm inclined to think > >that's more because of the controller rotation required for looping, > >which makes the analog ergonomically better suited to the game than a > >digital pad.
> >Analog may be fine for driving games, but, those, too, don't seem to > >handle as well as digital. The "gap" between the three levels of analog > >don't allow for a continuous sense of control and predictability I like > >in a game so heavily reliant on the controller's movements. That is, I > >don't like having to turn my vehicle from phase one to phase two without > >having much input on how much I wish to turn. With digital, I can at > >least tap the controller to the extent I want to adjust my movements. > >Still, I can somewhat understand why people would like such control in a > >driving game, though... but a platform game? A fighter? A puzzle game? > >"RPG?" hehe
> >Here's a quickie poll: How many people play Power Stone or Soul Calibur > >with the D-pad rather than the analog stick? Granted, the games weren't > >designed with analog control in mind, but it's _a lot_ more intuitive to > >use the digital pad than the other. Does anyone _really_ think analog > >control gives them 360 degrees of movement? Is that much movement even > >necessary?
Sentinel Returns. Bar None. Some may come close, but none will ever parallel this game's suckiness.
One that comes close is the game I rented on the same day...X-men Vs. Street Fighter EX. Good god. I heard it sucked, but then people said the quite decent psx ports of KOF95 and Darkstalkers sucked too, and were wrong. Framerates this low can make a game unplayable.
--
---------------------------------------------- "I think people would drive much better if they knew that if they crashed the car would explode." -- ChristianSlayer on dalnet #atheism (Paraphrased)
Me, I think there would just be more exploding cars. ---------------------------------------------- http://rivendell.fortunecity.com/hexplore/387 This stuff is on a back burner, but look if you like. ----------------------------------------------
All 3DO games. Especially Way of the Warrior. Pulling off the secret moves were hell. I told Jason Rubin & Andy Gavin about the problem when I interviewed them BEFORE the game came out, but it still had some pretty bad controls. The controller really sucked though, so I can't blame it all on the Naughty Dog group. Rise of the Robots all had some bad controls.
-- Perry Mercer - Senior Editor pmer...@vgt.com Video Game Time - Online http://www.vgt.com
