Future of Next-Generation of Gaming
John Lucas
For all gameplayers:
The Future of the Next-Generation of Gaming.
Here's the skinny folks.
=============
Sony Playstation 3
=============
STRENGTHS
.The 'Sony' brandname.
(high familiarity because of a diverse array of products from music players,
CD's, TV's to batteries in everything from supermarkets to pharmacies to
department stores)
.Last Generation's Marketshare Champion.
(heads into next generation to continue where they left off with the PS2 &
its massive volume of games)
.Media Center
(Sony continues trying to expand the experience of gaming adding in
mediaplaying tools for music, movies, etc. & tries to get the jump on the
tech trends by being the first with Blu-Ray technology. Not to mention HD
capabilities)
.3rd Party Strength
(what made the PS1 champion & subsequently the PS2, Sony hopes for this
crucial component to continue for the PS3. Those powerhouse franchises from
Square, Capcom & the like as well as other various 3rd party offerings are
what make Playstation what it is today)
WEAKNESSES
.What's New?
(there's a ho-hum feeling in the gaming audience lately & this feeling will
increase over the coming years. Each previous generation brought something
drastically different to the table but the spark is starting to fizzle out.
A crash is on the horizon. If PS3 seems like nothing more than a mere update
to the PS2, then that spells long term trouble for Sony & any hopes for a
PS4)
.High Cost
(once you go much over $200 for a game system people get chafed. With high
gas prices & a bumbling economy a high cost for entertainment may seem
superfluous & some buyers may ignore the system. there are some who may say
"I can go to a 'massage parlor' for $400!"-[to keep it clean])
.Gambling On A Tech Format Standard
(memories of the Betamax are still fresh & Sony's pull for Blu-Ray is in a
50/50 chance for gain or fail. if adopted as standard Sony gets the
headstart. if NOT adopted Sony's stuck with a collector's item)
.King Of The Hill Syndrome
(once you're on top there's nowhere to go but down. you can either maintain
your acme or tumble down the slopes to the anxious competition. Sony has to
maintain their position and with X-Box 360 & Nintendo Revolution this may
not be possible)
===============
Microsoft X-Box 360
===============
STRENGTHS
.Online Capability.
(X-Box Live helped create a distinct identity apart from Playstation that
has given X-Box as edge. This edge will grow in the next generation as X-Box
focuses more on the service)
.First Out The Gate.
(X-Box 360 gets to marinate in the minds of gamers over the holidays & in
the first parts of 2006 giving it the 'golden one & only' status. this will
help it increase its marketshare edge against Playstation)
.Name.
(X-BOX. Simplistic short abrupt 'X-otic' name makes it memorable in the
minds of new potential gamers who've never played a game system before.
Playstation was a strong name that denoted 'the place, the location where
games are played' [a universal feel]. But it has too many syllables. The
letter "X" is a letter used for many things & in many sayings. The word
"Box" has easy common familiarity {sandbox, boxing, mailbox, cardboard box}.
The "x" in "box" takes you back to the "X" at the beginning of the name. And
like the letters "Q" & "Z", "X" has an exotic flavor in the English language
due to its limited use. The brandname was meant to be highly memorable to
stick in buyers' heads.)
.Has Something To Prove.
(Microsoft wants their gamesystem to take over Sony's market this
generation. they seek to siphon away Sony's audience to theirs. to do this
they seek to make themselves distinct from Sony so people will have a reason
for buying their offering. this results in the lauding of their power &
system capabilities as well as aggresive marketing tactics. high ambition
will serve them well as they continue their erosion of Sony's market
dominance)
WEAKNESSES
.Identity.
(X-Box STILL has problems when it comes creating a distinction between them
& Sony when many games on their system are available on Playstation 2. If
this trend continues X-Box 360 will end up looking like a 5th wheel in the
long run. With the strength of the Halo franchise & Rare on their team as
well as their strong online they have created some differences but it's not
enough. X-Box will have to get more exclusivity in the gaming experience if
it hopes to erode Sony)
.Bill Gates-A-Phobia.
(some people refuse to trust Microsoft for fear of monopoly & all that comes
with it. no matter WHAT Microsoft is offering good or bad there are some who
refuse to pay tribute to the world's richest man. When you see takes like
"Micro$oft" & "M$" there's a big wall of distrust that could hinder X-Box
360's plans.)
.High Cost
(once again when you go over $200 for a gamesystem you're pushing it. yeah
some will pony up but others will find it hard to part with those hard
earned dollars for a gamesystem regardless of what you purport it to be.
there are some who say "a woman better pop out of the gameslot for THAT
price!"
.First Out The Gate.
(yes this is also a weakness. going first may lead you to being one-upped by
the competition who took longer to display their goods. Short-term win,
long-term loss. X-Box 360 better hope their technology stands the test of
time or either that no one will care if it HAS been one-upped)
.What's New?
(once again like Sony but to a lesser extent. Still X-Box 360 has to
convince the gaming public what's REALLY so special about what you're
offering me? Graphics are not the key to success this time around.
Photorealism is practically realized & the gamesystems of the future will
eventually seem like nothing more than mere updates to the system they just
had. Eventually that will wear a good portion of the gaming public down who
may wander elsewhere with their entertainment dollars. If the NEXT-next gen
X-Box 360-Spherical is to come about they have to address this problem soon)
==============
Nintendo Revolution
==============
STRENGTHS
.Heritage/History
(Nintendo will ALWAYS have its heritage to count on. The gaming masterpieces
they put out over the decades have shaped the world of gaming time & time
again. People have grown up with them & that is a substantial component of
their success. Even for those who left the Nintendo house there's a soft
spot in people's hearts for this company. This will pan out with gold in
Nintendo's retro gaming smorgasbord)
.1st Party Power
(Unlike the other companies Nintendo is the only true one who can put out
its OWN in-house games & make not only hits but classics with. And not just
a few at that. That ability to create new franchises & superstars serves
this company very well. The mascot power is not to be overlooked. Many a
Happy Meal was sold due to an overgrown red-headed clown's face)
.Innovators/Standard Makers.
(many of the standards we see in the current gaming experience originated
with Nintendo. Their ability to keep it fresh is what makes them truly the
driving force behind this industry whether or not they are the market
champion. With the Revolution they stand to do it once again by flipping the
script on how games are played with the new Revolution controller. More than
any other entertainment field gaming must stay innovative to survive.)
.Underdog/Dark Horse.
(the one-time dominator of the industry is now seen as an also-ran by many.
Many skip mentioning them as a factor in the next-generation because they
assume it's past last call for Nintendo. But they may have assumed wrong.
Unlike the other companies Nintendo even in its reduced space in the market
still stays comfortably in the black. Being overlooked has its advantages.
It allows you to formulate strategies to upset your competitors away from
the glare of the spotlight. For a company to lose so much position on
marketshare but continue to profit denotes some kind of
"coiled-snakes-in-the-peanut-brittle jar type of surprise that may spring
out unexpectedly shocking everyone.)
.Low Cost.
(Nintendo's ability to create high-quality tech at low prices will help them
tremendously in this Bushconomy where people chafe at the gas tanks & weaker
jobs. As a matter of fact these two things may work together as people opt
to stay home more to avoid using the car which will result in people using
their limited funds for cheap-priced gaming entertainment.)
.FREE Online Capablities.
(if Nintendo pulls off a quality online service & makes it FREE to use they
have usurped X-Box 360's advantage. X-Box Live has a fee. They would have to
have more exclusive games to make it worth the while. Nintendo has exclusive
games but with the word FREE you can't be beat! And in the process X-Box
360's distinction erodes THIS time in the favor of Nintendo.)
WEAKNESSES
.Volume/3rd Party Weakness.
(this has been Nintendo's problem since the Nintendo 64. With the virtual
exodus of the 3rd party of those times Nintendo has not quite recovered.
Although their 1st party titles are always knockouts, games take longer to
produce than in decades past. This means you need 3rd party gamemakers to
fill in the gaps between homemade releases so heavy-collecting gamers won't
get bored.
.Image.
(Nintendo's strategy of being the "family-based" system has its good points
but has left Nintendo labeled "the kiddie system". Even though games are for
children & the child-at-heart Nintendo has to at least alter aspects of this
image. Not by changing their marketing demographics, no, but by broadening
the array of games they have available to entice the buyers who discounted
them to give them another chance.)
.Luddites.
(innovations have their drawbacks. there are some afraid of the unknown.
Nintendo's remote-like controller may be too out there for some used to the
way things are now. as a result some may flat out refuse to try out the
innovation on sight-alone. If too much of the gaming public shares this
mindset, the limb Nintendo went out on may snap.)
.No Media Center.
(although this is a big factor of why Nintendo's offering will be cheaper
than the others, not having all those little extra bells & whistles will
cause some used to what Playstation & X-Box have been putting forth to
ignore Nintendo. it's not a major disadvantage but there are some who DO
want all of those features & Nintendo simply won't have them. Time will tell
if the public cares more about the meat & potatoes of gaming or about the
dressing of ambience)
MY PREDICTIONS:
Nintendo (believe it or not) will eventually come out on top this
generation. They offer a totally new experience that will be sure to pull in
not just PS gamers & X-Box gamers but people who have never fathomed
TOUCHING a game. They will pull in new buyers & create gamers on the spot.
They will pull in more FEMALES to the gaming world than anyone else will.
They will pull in different age groups & cement their standing as the
family-friendly/for-all-ages company philosophy. They will finally secure
the 3rd party support in the process (old AND new) which will leave the
other 2 companies struggling as they have little to offer from themselves
alone. 1st party is ALWAYS important to keep around because 3rd party
shifts. They will continue to flex their franchise power as they do every
generation. All of the strategies put together in this 10-year period as the
underdog will finally pay off in increased marketshare.
What happens between Sony PS3 & MS X-Box 360 depends on X-Box. Sony will
lose marketshare DEFINITELY this time around. They will be strong & they are
not pushovers but they will lose some of that dominance this time. Their
ultimate outcome depends on how much X-Box can siphon away their customers.
I see it happening already. I got a friend who bought PS1 & PS2 and he now
says he wants an X-Box 360.
If X-Box 360 succeeds in vampiring Sony's base X-Box becomes the #2 in
contest with Nintendo & Sony is left 3rd. X-Box will pick up the audience
who are not impressed with Nintendo's offering for whatever reason.
If X-Box 360 DOESN'T succeed in BramStoker's Dracula-ing then X-Box is on
the verge of being out of the biz & Sony is in contest with Nintendo taking
the people who don't like what Nintendo is selling. X-Box has to make its
mark or it's over. Sony's in a more comfortable position than X-Box & that's
why X-Box has to work harder. Expect to see some hardcore console wars
between X-Box & PS3 especially. X-Box will lead with the venom because they
are the hungriest.
Nintendo's going nowhere until they feel like it. They are not Sega. They
have the art AND the business sense.
Hope this puts it in perspective.
Thanks for reading.
John Lucas
Jordan
Sony Playstation 3
=============
STRENGTHS
.The 'Sony' brandname.
This could end up working against them if the machine is really
expensive and people start remembering all the problems they had with
the Playstation 2.
WEAKNESSES
.Gambling On A Tech Format Standard
(memories of the Betamax are still fresh & Sony's pull for Blu-Ray is
in a
50/50 chance for gain or fail. if adopted as standard Sony gets the
headstart. if NOT adopted Sony's stuck with a collector's item)
Even if Blu-Ray fails as a DVD format, it can still work as the PS3
format. Look at UMD on the PSP. There are no other devices that support
it at all and yet the format is thriving (mostly because the Sony-owned
studios are supporting it.)
===============
Microsoft X-Box 360
===============
WEAKNESSES
.Identity.
(X-Box STILL has problems when it comes creating a distinction between
them
& Sony when many games on their system are available on Playstation 2.
I think you've got it backwards. Most of the Playstation games are
ported to the Xbox, not the other way around. The best performing PS2
games, the GTA series, moved to the Xbox as well. Meanwhile the PS2 has
yet to see the likes of Halo, Crimson Skies, Knights of the Old
Republic 1 and 2, Jade Empire, Ninja Gaiden, Project Gotham 1 and 2,
etc.
.High Cost
(once again when you go over $200 for a gamesystem you're pushing it.
yeah
some will pony up but others will find it hard to part with those hard
earned dollars for a gamesystem regardless of what you purport it to
be.
there are some who say "a woman better pop out of the gameslot for THAT
price!"
Both the Xbox and PS2 launched at $300, it didn't seem to hurt them.
The Gamecube launched at $200 and it didn't help them.
==============
Nintendo Revolution
==============
STRENGTHS
.1st Party Power
(Unlike the other companies Nintendo is the only true one who can put
out
its OWN in-house games & make not only hits but classics with.
Nintendo's first party games are usually well reviewed when they come
out. The problem is that they don't come out with any kind of frequency
to support a platform. You can't have a console with 2 decent games a
year which is pretty much where the Gamecube is sitting right now.
WEAKNESSES
You miss the key weakness of Nintendo and that's a critical mis-reading
of the gaming audience. For the past several years the mantra has been
"Games are too hard! People want simple games!" and it's proven to be a
disaster for them. They've been the last to do any kind of networking
at all because they've been saying that people don't want online
games... DOH! Wrong again. There's no reason to think this new
controller innovation will be any different.
MY PREDICTIONS:
For the first year of the Xbox 360 financial pundits will look at the
top 10 or 20 selling games and bemoan the fact that there are no 360
titles on it, despite the fact that it's a generation ahead and has a
user-base that's only a fraction of the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube user base.
The Gamecube will launch sometime after April, 2006. It will be seen as
a godly machine by all the Nintendo fanboys but the general public will
look at it and go "Huh?" The new controller design will be seen as a
gimmick and not a very good one at that. Backwards compatibility will
be incredibly cool, but Nintendo will do something to screw up the
delivery system (like the E-Reader).
The PS3 will launch in Japan in late 2006 possibly slipping to early
2007 for the U.S. and other territories. The success of the platform is
going to be tied to the pricing. If Blu-Ray players are hugely
expensive ($800 to $1000) and the PS3 comes in under that ($500 to
$600) then there will be the perception of value and it could take off.
If it launches at the same price or more than stand alone Blu-Ray
players it will be slow to be accepted giving the edge to the 360. Too
many "ifs" to accurately predict at this time.
- Jordan
Paul Heslop
>
> Just need to add in my fifth of a dime right quick.
> For all gameplayers:
> The Future of the Next-Generation of Gaming.
>
> Here's the skinny folks.
>
--
Paul (Sometimes my mind plays tricks on me)
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
massivegrooves
"Jordan" <lu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1131192041.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Yep...also it is going to take a STRONG effort on Nintendo's part to get
back into the minds of gamers. They have dropped out of peoples minds when
it comes to games/gaming. Most conversation now days involves Xbox and
Playstation.
Rob Berryhill
says...
> MY PREDICTIONS:
> Nintendo (believe it or not) will eventually come out on top this
> generation. They offer a totally new experience that will be sure to pull in
> not just PS gamers & X-Box gamers but people who have never fathomed
> TOUCHING a game. They will pull in new buyers & create gamers on the spot.
>
>
ROFLMAO! You either work for Nintendo, or you are high on crack. There
is no way in hell that Nintendo will be more than an also-ran in this
generation. That controller is going to be a huge flop, and the hardware
is so far behind the other two that no one will want the games. I'm
betting all of the 3rd party game developers that have, in the past,
done with Nintendo exclusive titles will be bailing as fast as rats on a
sinking ship.
--
Rob Berryhill
Joerg Jaeger
How could you possibly know, that the controller will be a flop?
So far, their are developers how like and then some they don't. We
will see, if its their and what kind a games will surface.
I don't think Nintendo will be reaching #2 in the line, but certainly
they will have strong sales and make money.
And their attempt to drain in new customers who never played a
consolegame, with their new controller system, will maybe help the
entire business.
We shall see, how it turns out in the future.
lister...@hotmail.com
> TOUCHING a game"
How is waving a remote control "touching" a game?
I also like Nintendo once again showing their shortsightedness (as in
skipping online gaming this gen) by supporting only 480p resolution.
Bravo! This is a console that is supposed to last until 2011 or so.
---
Get a FREE Xbox 360 - declared legit by G4 and Wired
http://xbox360s.freepay.com/?r=23689706
---
email me if you have questions - lister...@hotmail.com
Rob
<lister...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131212517....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I also like Nintendo once again showing their shortsightedness (as in
> skipping online gaming this gen) by supporting only 480p resolution.
> Bravo! This is a console that is supposed to last until 2011 or so.
>
> ---
They're not skipping Online Gaming
John Lucas
what the gaming scene seems to point to.
I truly believe that counting out Nintendo will prove to be a regretful
decision that will bite people in the ass.
Hardware differences are getting moot at this point. This generation all
games systems put out a quality visual experience.
Practical realism was achieved (I'll write a post about the importance of
graphics & games in the future).
From here there's not much more to go in that regard.
It's like counting the differences between 10 billion, 11 billion & 12
billion.
You still have ridiculous amounts & by that point the differences mean next
to nothing anymore.
Sure you can paint your house in infrared & ultraviolet but your eyes are
not going to be able to pick anything beyond plain ol' red & violet.
And you're wrong that 3rd party developers are not interested. Maybe the
Epic Games VP, Mark Reign, doesn't see much promise in it but many others
do. There's been articles about it. Here's one:
http://cube.ign.com/articles/660/660408p1.html
What these plan to do if anything with the Revolution is anybody's guess but
there's a serious buzz around Nintendo's newest for good reason.
I think you're underestimating the 'bored gamer' contingent. The ones who
have been soured on gaming for whatever reason this generation. I feel very
confident that Nintendo will pick up that contingent giving them the power
on the gaming scene.
Once Nintendo calms fears about the ease of use of this product things will
be looking up for them most definitely.
Eventually as they put out never-before-seen types of games making hits it
will gradually entice the 3rd parties who largely exited them from the N64
days to come back as the public digs Nintendo's style. 3rd parties go where
the profit is, always remember.
Once THAT happens Nintendo is poised to be the leader. You put your 1st, 2nd
AND 3rd parties together it is all said & done. Nintendo ALWAYS & WILL
ALWAYS have the 1st. And they got good 2nds. When the 3rd parties return to
Nintendo THAT'S the moment when the gamescene changes. Sony & X-Box's 1st
party cannot support their systems alone. X-Box's can slightly more but not
much. 1st party is mostly what has kept Nintendo alive all these 10 years.
That's why I say don't count them out. They've somehow stayed comfortably in
the black with a much weakened marketplace representation over the years. If
they can thrive in drought then they can dominate in precipitation.
You will understand what I'm saying once the Revolution in-store demos come
about next year. That controller is truly genius & will really shake up
things this time around. If you can get grandma & grandpa playing, you can
get anybody playing.
And you know Nintendo's company philosophy about being the
'for-all-audiences' gaming company.
I'm looking at what I see & I see a coiled snake about to strike in 2006
called Revolution.
John Lucas
"Rob Berryhill" <rob_be...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1dd66da99...@news.west.cox.net...
Jordan
controller?
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=12577
Epic Games VP Mark Rein
"Don't kid yourself - you're going to see more gimmicky, crappy, cheap,
I-wish-I-hadn't-bought-it gimmick games based around that controller
than you can ever possibly imagine."
"I guarantee you there's going to be lots of people who say the whole
reason for this game is this controller, we made the perfect game for
the controller. And all it'll be is about the controller, and not
necessarily a great game."
In other words, just like the DS or the Sony EyeToy.
- Jordan
lister...@hotmail.com
games systems put out a quality visual experience. It's like counting
the differences between 10 billion, 11 billion & 12 billion. You still
have ridiculous amounts & by that point the differences mean next to
nothing anymore. "
Try playing Half-Life 2 or Doom 3 on your PC at 640x480 and then at
1280x720 and tell me the difference is negligible. That's the
difference between Revolution's 480p and the 360 and PS3's 720p. PS3 at
1080p is 1920x1080 for an even bigger difference. And when you consider
the fact that many people will (by 2011 or whenever the next gen comes)
be playing these games on screens twice to five times as big as a
computer monitor, the difference is enormous.
Jordan
who
have been soured on gaming for whatever reason this generation. I feel
very
confident that Nintendo will pick up that contingent giving them the
power
on the gaming scene. "
When you consider that Sony sold PS2s almost 1:1 with the number of
Playstations sold in addition to the millions of Gamecubes and Xboxes
I'd argue that the "bored gamer contingent" is non-existent. If there
were a significant number of bored gamers then the gaming market would
be shrinking as people trade their game machines for cell phones and
blackberries. The problem is that's not happening.
- Jordan
John Lucas
if the machine is really
expensive and people start remembering all the problems they had with
the Playstation 2."
John Lucas: Perhaps. I think this is part of why some have started to
gravitate toward the X-Box. But the Sony brandname is mighty strong. That
name is EVERYWHERE & there are some people who buy one thing from a company
& then trust whatever that company puts out. They buy a Sony CD player &
have a good experience with it then if they're find themselves in the mood
to buy a gamesystem they're less adverse to trying Sony's product. In fact
they may equate the brandname with the quality of the product & not even
think about what the others have to offer. It's a trust thing. Sony makes
EVERYTHING damn near. I didn't even know they made batteries until recently!
Blank CD's, TV's, Movies, Music. Microsoft is only known in the realm of
computer software. Nintendo is only known in gaming. But Sony's name is on
many many things in many many places & that name will stick in the minds of
potential consumers. In fact I would say it's a large component of their
success.
Jordan: [About Gambiling On A Tech Format Standard] "Even if Blu-Ray fails
as a DVD format, it can still work as the PS3
format. Look at UMD on the PSP. There are no other devices that support it
at all and yet the format is thriving (mostly because the Sony-owned studios
are supporting it.)"
John Lucas: Hmm I suppose. But if it does fail to be accepted Sony loses one
of their selling points. It could work in their favor if they use the PS3 as
a place to play their own Blu-Ray entertainment discs which MAY persuade
buyers to buy a Playstation 3 as a Blu-Ray player rather than a gaming
system but this is shaky. Like I said it's a 50/50 situation. Time will tell
on this matter.
Jordan: [About X-Box360 Identity] "I think you've got it backwards. Most of
the Playstation games are ported to the Xbox, not the other way around. The
best performing PS2 games, the GTA series, moved to the Xbox as well.
Meanwhile the PS2 has yet to see the likes of Halo, Crimson Skies, Knights
of the Old Republic 1 and 2, Jade Empire, Ninja Gaiden, Project Gotham 1 and
2, etc."
John Lucas: Well that's like saying X-Box has yet to see Final Fantasy &
SOCOM. Those are exclusives & some of them are 1st party. But those things
you mentioned are what X-Box 360 needs to continue to do in order to pull
away from Sony. I should have mentioned the color green as one of X-Box's
strengths. It makes them seem exciting & different. Edgy. This subtle little
matter makes people wanna try that system out more I think.
I can see X-Box really putting a dent into Sony's plans this time around. I
got a feeling X-Box will split the Sony-only audience. We're not talking
about the gamers who buy all systems but the ones who are dedicated to one
system over the others. I think this is THE BIGGEST matter Microsoft has to
solve to move forward. Once people can feel a strong difference between the
PS3 & the X-Box 360, X-Box 360 will benefit.
Jordan: [About High Cost] "Both the Xbox and PS2 launched at $300, it didn't
seem to hurt them. The Gamecube launched at $200 and it didn't help them."
John Lucas: Also 4 & 5 years ago people didn't struggle quite as bad
financially either. A difference one administration can make. And I don't
even see $300 as the price. I've seen preorder packages of $700 & crap!!
That's ridiculous! Sega Saturn suffered putting out that high price. Oh of
course you'll get customers from those who really want it but you'll turn
off others who don't feel comfortable putting that kind of money on games.
And think about parents & kids. A parent sees $400 & $500 for a gamesystem &
they're like "Kiss My Ass!". You can get a computer for that! And think
about a couple with the guy wanting to spend $400 or $500 on a system
getting into it with his girlfriend. $300 is probably the highest you can go
before people outright refuse. Some people put things on layway (you gotta
think about all the economic classes) & prices like that can be mighty
steep. To justify that price the system will have to REALLY make you think
it's providing something irreplacable or exquisite. A slight improvment in
graphics ain't gonna do it this time around. Photorealism is achieved. This
ain't 1989 anymore when you could only use 3-colored sprites.
Nintendo's bargain-bonanza strategy in conjunction with their fresh
innovative interplay MAY upstage the show for the other two. Gas is high.
Money is tight. People cut out the extracurricular when they tighten their
belts. That $200 starting point or LESS will DEFINITELY be a BIG selling
factor this time around, you better believe.
Jordan: [About Nintendo's 1st Party Power] "Nintendo's first party games are
usually well reviewed when they come out. The problem is that they don't
come out with any kind of frequency to support a platform. You can't have a
console with 2 decent games a year which is pretty much where the Gamecube
is sitting right now."
John Lucas: Yeah. I mentioned this in the Nintendo WEAKNESS section.
Volume/3rd Party Weakness.
Like I said in there games take longer to make today than in the past
because of the complexity. It's not simple sprites & coding anymore. More
expensive as a result all of which ends up with fewer games in raw volume.
But as a strength this is one of Nintendo's greatest. That is undeniable. In
fact no one else could really do it on 1st party virtually alone & profit
like Nintendo has. That says something about the power of products they
produce. They solve the volume problem & it's a new day for Mario's
Homebase.
Jordan: [About Nintendo's WEAKNESSES] "You miss the key weakness of Nintendo
and that's a critical mis-reading of the gaming audience. For the past
several years the mantra has been "Games are too hard! People want simple
games!" and it's proven to be a disaster for them. They've been the last to
do any kind of networking at all because they've been saying that people
don't want online games... DOH! Wrong again. There's no reason to think this
new controller innovation will be any different."
John Lucas: Well I wouldn't necessarily say that. Remember Nintendo's not a
multimedia monolith like Sony or backed by the world's richest man like
Microsoft. They have to play it smarter than that. Those companies can
absorb massive losses & survive but Nintendo can't. Their bread & butter is
the games & gamesystems they make. This is the key difference between Sega &
Nintendo when everyone keeps predicting the doom of Nintendo. Nintendo
always keeps itself funded. In the Black. They HAVE to. They have R&D to
support, marketing, production, shipping, warehousing. If they provide a
service or create a production model that loses them money then they can't
continue to produce what they produce AT ALL no matter HOW MUCH it is
accepted & lauded.
If Nintendo suffered a $4,000,000,000 loss (that's 4 Billion), Mario would
be back in Brooklyn working odd fix-it jobs living in a ratty apartment,
Satoru Iwata would become a door-to-door Hanafuda card salesman with Shigeru
Miyamoto cutting the cards on a T-Square! Meanwhile Koji Kondo would be
writing the jingles for late-night TV ads!
Their decisions HAVE cost them some audience but they have to make sure they
can continue to put out what they can by doing what's best for their
continuance. There were problems with CD's in the 1990's that Nintendo
didn't like & they stuck with what they felt was a more reliable medium.
Online gaming still has some issues to work out & Nintendo hasn't fully
pursued this direction. You gotta remember the Virtual Boy fiasco of 1995 to
understand Nintendo's cautiousness. I think the Revolution will tie up all
these loose ends. Their quirky way of approaching the industry pays off more
than it doesn't. Sometimes it's glitchy but in the long run they know what
they're doing.
Think of this when you wonder about Nintendo's decisions:
"Quality product at reasonable price"
I'd rather them get it right then do it wrong trying to keep up with the
Joneses.
Games are too hard? When did Nintendo say this? I don't remember that. I've
heard them talk about wanting to incorporate the whole family into gaming
but talking about simple games? Maybe you're confusing your quotes or
something here.
Jordan's PREDICTIONS (Paragraph #1): "For the first year of the Xbox 360
financial pundits will look at the top 10 or 20 selling games and bemoan the
fact that there are no 360 titles on it, despite the fact that it's a
generation ahead and has a user-base that's only a fraction of the
PS2/Xbox/Gamecube user base."
John Lucas: Hmmm. I don't think that's going to pan out like you called it.
I see the X-Box 360 getting HIGHLY *HIGHLY* aggressive this time around.
Their test will truly begin when the Sony Playstation 3 launches. That's the
time to see how much they can split & claim Sony's audience. Their success
at doing it determines Microsoft's future in the console videogame industry.
Don't underestimate them. I see hunger in X-Box's eyes. Or should I say
exes?
Jordan's PREDICTIONS (Paragraph #2): "The Gamecube will launch sometime
after April, 2006. It will be seen as a godly machine by all the Nintendo
fanboys but the general public will look at it and go "Huh?" The new
controller design will be seen as a gimmick and not a very good one at that.
Backwards compatibility will be incredibly cool, but Nintendo will do
something to screw up the delivery system (like the E-Reader)."
John Lucas: People sure love to use that word a lot don't they? "Fanboy". I
remember an episode of the cartoon "Freakazoid" years ago who had a
character named that but how did this word get so widespread? Anyway...
A gimmick? Hmmmm. How this new controller is received will be determined by
the hands-on displays at the demos. And if what I've been hearing about how
good this thing is is true then you can bet your underground dollar that the
general public will eat it up. Press a bunch of buttons & levers or move
your arm in natural movements.
I'm really getting a flashback of the Nintendo 64 with Super Mario 64 in the
stores. Analog sticks were predicted to be bogus too I think.
All the speculation, misgivings, distrust will fade once people are finally
allowed to put their hands on this unassuming controller. And you KNOW you
can get nothing cooler than to have your controller turn off your system
from afar just like any ordinary remote control. I've heard on some site
(with feedback about the Rev controller) a Japanese person talking about how
he will be finally able to drink his tea & play at the same time. Now this
is big. You can simultaneously eat/drink AND play at the same time without
putting down your controller. People will like that a lot.
Nintendo had better make sure they make everything smooth in this Revolution
or they will lose their chance.
Jordan's PREDICTIONS (Paragraph #3): "The PS3 will launch in Japan in late
2006 possibly slipping to early 2007 for the U.S. and other territories. The
success of the platform is going to be tied to the pricing. If Blu-Ray
players are hugely expensive ($800 to $1000) and the PS3 comes in under that
($500 to $600) then there will be the perception of value and it could take
off. If it launches at the same price or more than stand alone Blu-Ray
players it will be slow to be accepted giving the edge to the 360. Too many
"ifs" to accurately predict at this time."
John Lucas: Sony's the man to beat this generation. But they will not be
easily uprooted. Lots of momentum in their favor. Blu-Ray's a gamble that
could pay off big or be a bust. Not much middle ground on that one. X-Box is
gunning for them & that's where you'll see the heaviest fighting. Nintendo's
biding their time coiled like a snake waiting to strike them all at the
right time.
High Price will backfire for a large portion of gameplayers. $500 & $600 for
a gamesystem is dangerous. Only the hardest-core will accept it. Sony's
biggest immediate threat is Microsoft trying to steal their thunder. How
well X-Box does it determines who goes against wild card Nintendo.
If Sony DOES launch in 2007 it could have some surprises up their sleeves
that may shock us. On the flip side it could also cause them to play catchup
the rest of the season.
But Sony's name is very VERY strong. In Japan, In America & many places
around the world.
If Nintendo doesn't pull off their Revolution they will weaken in Japan,
their homebase & Sony's.
But I really see X-Box weakening Sony in America especially & Nintendo
gaining ground on Sony in Japan.
Nintendo will win over Japan & then that will set them up for the other
world markets that X-Box & Sony are fighting over.
It's going to be an interesting generation to say the least.
John Lucas
"Jordan" <lu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1131192041.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Jordan
> financially either. A difference one administration can make. And I don't
> even see $300 as the price. I've seen preorder packages of $700 & crap!!
Yes, but the $700 stickers aren't being dictated by Microsoft, it's the
retailers doing that for the same reason they tried to push bundles
last time... They make a higher profit margin that way. If people go
out Tuesday morning they will have their choice of the $300 or $400
packages. The people who snooze will have to deal with the scalpers.
> Some people put things on layway (you gotta think about all the economic classes) & > prices like that can be mighty steep.
New product launches aren't about all economic classes. Product
launches are for people who will blow $400 without batting an eye. The
other economic classes don't kick in until there's a ready made supply
of $20 games available in the bargain bin at Wally World and that's not
going to happen probably for the first 6 months to a year.
> Games are too hard? When did Nintendo say this? I don't remember that.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/26/nintendo_games_claim/
http://www.variousandsundry.com/?p=2777
http://www.revolutionreport.com/index.php?act=articles&code=read&id=136&page=1
You can see this in the design of the Gamecube controller with the
large, centrally located button. Also in the design of the DS with the
plethora of 5 second mini-games. Nintendo has been trying to dumb down
gaming ever since the N64 tanked and all it's done is reduce their
marketshare.
> Don't underestimate them. I see hunger in X-Box's eyes. Or should I say
> exes?
I'm not underestimating them, I know Microsoft is going to market the
hell out of the machine. But I guarantee it's not going to sell enough
units to have game sales crack the top 20 list in the first year.
Remember, according to Sony there are some 100 million PS2s out there.
It only takes a fraction of that base to make a game a "greatest hit".
Meanwhile on the 360 side they will have to have a title sell almost
1:1 with the unit to even crack the top 20. In the absence of a killer
ap like Halo that's not going to happen (and no, PD0 and Kameo are NOT
killer aps.)
> John Lucas: People sure love to use that word a lot don't they? "Fanboy". I
> remember an episode of the cartoon "Freakazoid" years ago who had a
> character named that but how did this word get so widespread?
You can thank comic book character Lobo (1992) for that. Also the
source of "Frag".
http://www.phys.psu.edu/~scalise/misc/lobo/lb1.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobo_%28comics%29
Yes, knowing that makes me a fanboy. :^)
- Jordan
Doug Jacobs
> They're not skipping Online Gaming
But they are skipping HD.
And from what I've seen of the controller, they're also skipping 3rd party
support, not to mention multi-platform games.
Yeah, it's a novel idea and I'm sure a few games may even be pretty good
with it, but realistically, it's going to be considered just a toy. An
expensive toy with low market penetration.
I don't think the Revolution is going to appeal to non-gamers. If a
non-gamer decided to get a game console, most likely they'll walk into a
store and ask what's the most popular one to get - and here's a hint, it
ain't going to be the Revolution. Otherwise, non-gamers will stay away
because they're still not going to be interested.
Jordan
that they were losing marketshare to Xavix or something.
http://www.xavix.com/products/index.htm
OMG! We need to compete with this! Quick! Make a controller that does
the same thing before Sony and Microsoft get hip to it!
- Jordan
Eric
@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Am I remembering this wrong, or are there supposed to be gamecube
controller ports??? Because if there are, that would allow for very
traditional games. I mean, sure, the 360 and PS3 have "new" controllers,
but they are pretty darn close to being the same thing that last gen was.
The gamecube controllers would allow for the regular old gameplay that
people have had, and the new controller would allow for a totally new kind
of gameplay that has not been seen before?? mabye?
Thats just my two cents.
-Eric-
--
the power of root. . . . .
Fred Liken
You're on official notice. If it succeeds, you are proven a dumbass.
Fred Liken
>> They're not skipping Online Gaming
>
> But they are skipping HD.
Meh, over rated.
> And from what I've seen of the controller, they're also skipping 3rd party
> support, not to mention multi-platform games.
Proof that Doug has officially kill filed every intelligent person on this
newsgroup and built a world of ignorance... lol.
> Yeah, it's a novel idea and I'm sure a few games may even be pretty good
> with it, but realistically, it's going to be considered just a toy. An
> expensive toy
How so? It's supposedly going to be rather cheap.
> with low market penetration.
Meh, more ignorance. It'll be many people's second system.
> I don't think the Revolution is going to appeal to non-gamers.
I think it will appeal to non-gamers because it gets rid of many of the road
blocks from getting into gaming. EXTREMELY SIMPLIFIED CONTROLS will make
gaming accessible to non-gamers.
> If a
> non-gamer decided to get a game console, most likely they'll walk into a
> store and ask what's the most popular one to get - and here's a hint, it
> ain't going to be the Revolution.
Speculation... Especially if it gets positioned as accessible up front.
New to gaming? Rev.
> Otherwise, non-gamers will stay away
> because they're still not going to be interested.
Ignorance... Time will tell, but I'm sure it will interest non-gamers since
Nintendo has a track record for doing that since NES.
Doug Jacobs
> "Doug Jacobs" <dja...@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
> >> They're not skipping Online Gaming
> >
> > But they are skipping HD.
> Meh, over rated.
Yes...and no. HD is becoming more ubiquitous, and will continue to do so
throughout the next gen's lifecycle. Just as many people don't like
having the black bars above and below their movies on their older TVs,
it's certain that these same people won't like having the grey bars on the
right and left of their picture while playing video games.
Also, if there are any cross-platform games between the Revolution and the
360, the difference in the graphics is going to be very apparent.
> > And from what I've seen of the controller, they're also skipping 3rd party
> > support, not to mention multi-platform games.
> Proof that Doug has officially kill filed every intelligent person on this
> newsgroup and built a world of ignorance... lol.
Ok, and how are you drawing this conclusion? From what I've seen and read
about the Revolution's controllers, they're mainly planning on have their
little "magic-wand" system. While I've heard it mentioned that there will
be a more traditional controller solution available, Nintendo hasn't made
it public yet. Maybe they'll do it, maybe they won't. The only thing
that IS certain is their wireless controller, which is going to make.
> > Yeah, it's a novel idea and I'm sure a few games may even be pretty good
> > with it, but realistically, it's going to be considered just a toy. An
> > expensive toy
> How so? It's supposedly going to be rather cheap.
So, say it's $200 at launch like the GameCube was. The games are probably
still going to be $50-60. I don't consider that to be cheap. Cheaper
than a PS3 or 360 perhaps but still not cheap.
> > with low market penetration.
> Meh, more ignorance. It'll be many people's second system.
Most people don't buy multiple consoles. They'll buy ONE console, and
that'll be it. Sure, gamers will buy multiple consoles, but being
someone's #2 console isn't going to sustain the company that well.
> > I don't think the Revolution is going to appeal to non-gamers.
> I think it will appeal to non-gamers because it gets rid of many of the road
> blocks from getting into gaming. EXTREMELY SIMPLIFIED CONTROLS will make
> gaming accessible to non-gamers.
I guess it'll depend on why someone is a non-gamer in the first place. If
they think games are too complicated (too many buttons, sticks, etc.) then
MAYBE the Revolution may appeal to them. If they just don't like games in
the first place, they might fiddle with a Revolution in the store, but I
doubt they'll feel compelled to spend money on it. But I think it's
rather unwise to think that the Revolution is going to suddenly cause a
whole group of people to start playing games for the first time.
> > If a
> > non-gamer decided to get a game console, most likely they'll walk into a
> > store and ask what's the most popular one to get - and here's a hint, it
> > ain't going to be the Revolution.
> Speculation... Especially if it gets positioned as accessible up front.
> New to gaming? Rev.
I was thinking more along the lines of what would a store clerk answer.
Since most clerks aren't that knowledge about gaming (even the ones in the
gaming stores) they're going to probably point to what's been selling
better - and I'm betting that's going to be the 360 or the PS3.
Speculation - yes, but I stand by hypothesis that the Revolution is going
to come in a distant 3rd this round.
> > Otherwise, non-gamers will stay away
> > because they're still not going to be interested.
> Ignorance... Time will tell, but I'm sure it will interest non-gamers since
> Nintendo has a track record for doing that since NES.
Nintendo also has the image of being a kiddie console. While Nintendo has
been working to dispel this image since the N64, the fact that many of
their strongest titles remain Mario-related isn't helping much.
Finally, even if the Revolution does convince some non-gamers to pick up a
Nintendo console, it's not going to do Nintendo a whole lot of good unless
they also continue to buy games.
Miles Bader
>> Proof that Doug has officially kill filed every intelligent person on this
>> newsgroup and built a world of ignorance... lol.
>
> Ok, and how are you drawing this conclusion? From what I've seen and read
> about the Revolution's controllers, they're mainly planning on have their
> little "magic-wand" system.
Using pejorative terms like "little magic-wand system" (for something
you have absolutely no experience with) makes you look insecure and
fanboyish.
> Nintendo also has the image of being a kiddie console. While Nintendo has
> been working to dispel this image since the N64, the fact that many of
> their strongest titles remain Mario-related isn't helping much.
The mario-related titles seem to be by far the strongest sellers, so
it's hard to blame them. Blame the gaming public instead.
-miles
--
o The existentialist, not having a pillow, goes everywhere with the book by
Sullivan, _I am going to spit on your graves_.
elr...@pop.uky.edu
> ROFLMAO! You either work for Nintendo, or you are high on crack.
There
> is no way in hell that Nintendo will be more than an also-ran in this
> generation. That controller is going to be a huge flop
The controller really a gutsy move by Nintendo, I'll give them that.
They're really going all-or-nothing on that one. The big, HUGE question
for me (and one that, surprisingly, I don't hear many people asking)
is: "WILL IT ACTUALLY WORK AS ADVERTISED?" It really all hinges on that
question. If it does, it could revolutionize the industry. If not, it
could well go down as one of the most embarrassing flops in the history
of the industry.
Personally, I am EXTREMELY skeptical that they can deliver on their
promises. This is the first controller I've ever seen in any
application that claims to not only be able to track the exact position
of the controller in a real world setting but also its pitch, and do
both quickly enough for a no-lag screen response.
To my knowledge, this would also be the first time in history that a
videogame console debuted with a controller that has absolutely no
precedence in the arcade or in virtually any other application (light
guns, joysticks, etc. all debuted in arcades long before they showed up
in a console). I've never even seen such a thing used in the medical
imagery field (where it would presumably be very useful in dealing with
navigating 3-D spaces).
Personally, I think it's a bunch of bunk (and possibly just a publicity
stunt). By the time the "Revolution" gets to market, it will either:
a) Feature the new controller, which will not even come close to living
up to their initial advertising (no swinging it about in all directions
like a bat or sword, very buggy and picky, significant lag time, etc.).
Can we say "Power Glove," people?
-or-
b) Feature a traditional controller, with vague promises of the "future
release" of the originally advertised controller
I hope I'm wrong on this, though. If they could truly deliver what was
shown in those ads, it would be a very fun controller to have.
-Eric
Jordan
elr...@pop.uky.edu wrote:
> The controller really a gutsy move by Nintendo, I'll give them that.
> They're really going all-or-nothing on that one. The big, HUGE question
> for me (and one that, surprisingly, I don't hear many people asking)
> is: "WILL IT ACTUALLY WORK AS ADVERTISED?" It really all hinges on that
> question. If it does, it could revolutionize the industry. If not, it
> could well go down as one of the most embarrassing flops in the history
> of the industry.
There's another factor besides "will it work". As I understand it, for
the controller to work as advertised you have to place two sensors on
top of the television. So now it's not enough that kids have to
convince their parents to buy them a new game console, they also have
to convince them to allow two more gadgets on top of the television and
the television has to be big enough for the sensors to have a decent
amount of space between them (i.e. the little 12" kids room TV set is
not going to fly.)
I'd love it if Nintendo proves me wrong on this, but I don't see it
being accepted by the general public.
- Jordan
Fred Liken
>> >> They're not skipping Online Gaming
>> >
>> > But they are skipping HD.
>
>> Meh, over rated.
>
> Yes...and no. HD is becoming more ubiquitous, and will continue to do so
> throughout the next gen's lifecycle. Just as many people don't like
> having the black bars above and below their movies on their older TVs,
> it's certain that these same people won't like having the grey bars on the
> right and left of their picture while playing video games.
Um, you don't need HD to output a 16:9 ratio.... They aren't the same
thing.
> Also, if there are any cross-platform games between the Revolution and the
> 360, the difference in the graphics is going to be very apparent.
Probably not all that apparent, seeing as the Rev will be pushing quite a
few less pixels, so the power can be used to filter. On a normal TV,
there'll be little to notice. On a high def, there'll be a difference. I'm
not yet ready to say it will be all that much worse since it will also,
again, be lower res. For example, like a 16 color 640X480 didn't look as
good as a 256 color 320X240. That's a quarter of the pixels, mind you, but
what you do with them matters more, most of the time. If you can do twice
as much per pixel yet display only a quarter of them, that's aggregated to
still half the power. Visually, it might be better.
Honestly, HD is overrated in this realm. That's resolution only. You can
get better quality with less power at lower resolutions. Resolution isn't
the end all, my friend. But, if every game has to target HD, then you
aren't given that luxury. Heck, might not even be built to do it as well as
less powerful hardware if it is optimized for HD.
>> > And from what I've seen of the controller, they're also skipping 3rd
>> > party
>> > support, not to mention multi-platform games.
>
>> Proof that Doug has officially kill filed every intelligent person on
>> this
>> newsgroup and built a world of ignorance... lol.
>
> Ok, and how are you drawing this conclusion? From what I've seen and read
> about the Revolution's controllers, they're mainly planning on have their
> little "magic-wand" system.
AND... the analog attachable controller with another button or so... Pretty
much making it about the same as current and XBOX360/PS3 controlers, but
with more functionality.
> While I've heard it mentioned that there will
> be a more traditional controller solution available, Nintendo hasn't made
> it public yet. Maybe they'll do it, maybe they won't. The only thing
> that IS certain is their wireless controller, which is going to make.
Make what? The nunchuck is the same as a traditional controller, for the
most part.
>> > Yeah, it's a novel idea and I'm sure a few games may even be pretty
>> > good
>> > with it, but realistically, it's going to be considered just a toy. An
>> > expensive toy
>
>> How so? It's supposedly going to be rather cheap.
>
> So, say it's $200 at launch like the GameCube was.
That's an expensive toy? Not if the GameCube wasn't an expensive toy.
> The games are probably still going to be $50-60. I don't consider that
> to be cheap. Cheaper than a PS3 or 360 perhaps but still not cheap.
Um, there's something between cheap and expensive in your world, no? It's
not so binary that something can't be just right, Goldilocks?
>> > with low market penetration.
>
>> Meh, more ignorance. It'll be many people's second system.
>
> Most people don't buy multiple consoles. They'll buy ONE console, and
> that'll be it.
I personally don't know anyone with just one of this gen's system.
Especially when Nintendo has the best first party games and always has a
must have game and it goes for 100 bucks now.
> Sure, gamers will buy multiple consoles, but being
> someone's #2 console isn't going to sustain the company that well.
It's done it for two generations now.
None the less... you said market penetration. Penetration as a popular
second system will sustain a company especially when they have unique
software that you can't get on the other system.
>> > I don't think the Revolution is going to appeal to non-gamers.
>
>> I think it will appeal to non-gamers because it gets rid of many of the
>> road
>> blocks from getting into gaming. EXTREMELY SIMPLIFIED CONTROLS will make
>> gaming accessible to non-gamers.
>
> I guess it'll depend on why someone is a non-gamer in the first place. If
> they think games are too complicated (too many buttons, sticks, etc.) then
> MAYBE the Revolution may appeal to them.
Hell yeah, it will. :)
> If they just don't like games in
> the first place, they might fiddle with a Revolution in the store, but I
> doubt they'll feel compelled to spend money on it.
Then accessibility isn't the issue and it's moot... what's your point?
> But I think it's
> rather unwise to think that the Revolution is going to suddenly cause a
> whole group of people to start playing games for the first time.
Meh, when I need advice on what's wise and not, I won't come to you.
Nintendo is the company getting people playing games for the first time.
>> > If a
>> > non-gamer decided to get a game console, most likely they'll walk into
>> > a
>> > store and ask what's the most popular one to get - and here's a hint,
>> > it
>> > ain't going to be the Revolution.
>
>> Speculation... Especially if it gets positioned as accessible up front.
>> New to gaming? Rev.
>
> I was thinking more along the lines of what would a store clerk answer.
And... if it gets positioned as accessible up front... they'll pitch that.
> Since most clerks aren't that knowledge about gaming (even the ones in the
> gaming stores) they're going to probably point to what's been selling
> better - and I'm betting that's going to be the 360 or the PS3.
Assuming you are right, it doesn't take much intelligence or anything to
repeat the popular statement that it is the gaming machine for newbies. If
it is positioned as such, and if they just tell the clerks that, like the
Nintendo rep kind of puts it in their head, then they'll say it.
> Speculation - yes, but I stand by hypothesis that the Revolution is going
> to come in a distant 3rd this round.
That's fine. Wouldn't be the first time you were wrong, no?
>> > Otherwise, non-gamers will stay away
>> > because they're still not going to be interested.
>
>> Ignorance... Time will tell, but I'm sure it will interest non-gamers
>> since
>> Nintendo has a track record for doing that since NES.
>
> Nintendo also has the image of being a kiddie console.
Um, to "gamerz" yes... but to non-gamers, they don't know shit. lol. Get
it together.
> While Nintendo has
> been working to dispel this image since the N64, the fact that many of
> their strongest titles remain Mario-related isn't helping much.
Um, which one of the GC strongest titles was Mario related? Smash Brothers?
Oh yes, super kiddy.
> Finally, even if the Revolution does convince some non-gamers to pick up a
> Nintendo console, it's not going to do Nintendo a whole lot of good unless
> they also continue to buy games.
That's the thing Nintendo's always has as well... People that buy Nintendo
systems buy lots of games for them. They always do quite well on games to
system ratios.
Fred Liken
>> Ok, and how are you drawing this conclusion? From what I've seen and
>> read
>> about the Revolution's controllers, they're mainly planning on have their
>> little "magic-wand" system.
>
> Using pejorative terms like "little magic-wand system" (for something
> you have absolutely no experience with) makes you look insecure and
> fanboyish.
I don't think Doug's insecure. In fact, I'd say the opposite. He's just
twisting titties.
Fred Liken
> So now it's not enough that kids have to
> convince their parents to buy them a new game console, they also have
> to convince them to allow two more gadgets on top of the television and
> the television has to be big enough for the sensors to have a decent
> amount of space between them (i.e. the little 12" kids room TV set is
> not going to fly.)
Woah!!!!! Where's the link to that "12" isn't enough?" noise? Gutsy
speculation, Jacobs.... err... I mean cjw... err I mean ZFP... err I mean
Jordan.
Jordan
Perhaps I should have said "in all likelyhood that 12" kids-room TV is
not going to fly."
- Jordan
Fred Liken
> No link, I'm extrapolating from what I know about stereo separation.
> Perhaps I should have said "in all likelyhood that 12" kids-room TV is
> not going to fly."
If it would work on a 36" TV sitting at the average viewing distance of a
36" TV, why wouldn't it work on a 12" TV at the average viewing distance of
a 12" TV? Doesn't seem likely that it would not work as planned.
Terrence Briggs
So call the functionality what it is... another R.O.B. to be.
Not that I'm bothered by that. I got my NES Action Set with a Light
Gun like 40 million other folks did. The market will determine how
many games we get with the "magic wand" functionality.
Personally, I'd be happy if the developers made sweet games using the
traditional controller, with some mini-games using the wand. Sounds
fine to me.
Terrence Briggs, might end up getting Capcom Treasure Collection, just
to play Final Fight again :)
Peace to you...
Mark E. Smith
<elr...@pop.uky.edu> wrote in message
news:1131547221.9...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Rob Berryhill wrote:
--snip--
> up to their initial advertising (no swinging it about in all directions
> like a bat or sword, very buggy and picky, significant lag time, etc.).
> Can we say "Power Glove," people?
>
> -Eric
Eric my lad, get your facts straight. The "Power Glove" was a 3rd party
controller made by Mattel (an american company, no less!) and not by
Nintendo.
All, the controllers you are using on the current gen of consoles have been
derived from Nintendo's concepts. If you cannot see this then you're posts
are simply a waste of everyone's time.
Ted
So if he doesn't ignore all the predecessory tech that Nintendo took for
its various controllers (mostly found on third party 2600 controllers,
like the D-pad), or tech that hit the market within a week of Nintendo's
(the Saturn analog controller, which has a hell of a lot more to do with
the Xbox controller than the N64 controller), his posts are a waste?
elr...@pop.uky.edu
> All, the controllers you are using on the current gen of consoles have been
> derived from Nintendo's concepts.
Virtually everything in Nitendo controllers had clear predecessors in
either earlier consoles or arcade controllers. Even the "rumble pack"
had predecessors (hence the nasty lawsuit that followed). Nintendo,
from NES to present, has generally taken concepts that had been proven
on earlier controllers (thumbpad, buttons, thumbsticks, etc.) and
arranged them in new ways (and more power to them).
There was nothing in their previous designs that was nearly as
revolutionary and gutsy as this new controller. And there was nothing
as unproven, either.
But, don't get me wrong, I would love nothing better than if it worked
as advertised. In fact, like Alex Albrecht on Diggnation, I have been a
die-hard Xbox fan, but I'm actually more excited right now about the
Revolution than the Xbox 360. If they really can deliver on what
they're promising, it looks like a very fun system (I do wish it had
HDTV support, though).
So I guess you can call me skeptical but hopeful. It would be
interesting to see some video of some real-time demos of the
controller, instead of just commercials.
-Eric
Miles Bader
> Virtually everything in Nitendo controllers had clear predecessors in
> either earlier consoles or arcade controllers. Even the "rumble pack"
> had predecessors (hence the nasty lawsuit that followed). Nintendo,
> from NES to present, has generally taken concepts that had been proven
> on earlier controllers (thumbpad, buttons, thumbsticks, etc.) and
> arranged them in new ways (and more power to them).
The main thing I see in Nintendo's controllers is that -- unlike other
manufacturers -- they actually take some care to make them not suck.
That may sound silly, but look at other video game manufacturers,
especially in the pre-nintendo era: tons of controller designs,
arguably a fair bit of innovation, but the results _always_ seemed to be
uncomfortable, hard to use, unreliable, and badly made. It's like the
manufacturers had (sometimes) decent ideas, but never bothered to
actually do much thinking about ergonomics, or any real user-testing.
Nintendo, especially in the last couple of generations, actually _does_
do those things, and the result is that they combine good ideas with
good execution.
Sony still doesn't have that down -- the dual-shock was not a bad design
overall, but its ergonomics are awful -- and in their position as market
leader, there's no pressure on them to do any better. MS is trying a
bit harder than Sony, but their controllers are still a bit wonky
compared to the refined and well tested Nintendo designs.
From what I've read in the press, a lot of Nintendo's obsession with
getting the controller right stems from the personal involvement of
Miyamoto; it's an issue he cares a lot about. The Rev's controller
seems to be taking this obsession to new heights: it's the controller
that defines the machine.
-Miles
--
"I distrust a research person who is always obviously busy on a task."
--Robert Frosch, VP, GM Research
Joerg Jaeger
hand and the controller does not slip away.
Sony Dualshock is ok, but doesn't feel quite as good.
But different people, feel different about their controllers. Some
claim, that the xbox are the best, but i personally think they are
perfect.
I am really excited to see the new controller for the revolution. I
think it will be awesome. Just something new, what perhaps is even
better to use, than the traditional controller. We will see.
DBG
Game Cube controller so 3rd party developers can produce some decent
games for them.It wouldn't hurt for their backward compatability games
either. Bruce