Just need to add in my fifth of a dime right quick. For all gameplayers: The Future of the Next-Generation of Gaming.
Here's the skinny folks.
============= Sony Playstation 3 ============= STRENGTHS .The 'Sony' brandname. (high familiarity because of a diverse array of products from music players, CD's, TV's to batteries in everything from supermarkets to pharmacies to department stores) .Last Generation's Marketshare Champion. (heads into next generation to continue where they left off with the PS2 & its massive volume of games) .Media Center (Sony continues trying to expand the experience of gaming adding in mediaplaying tools for music, movies, etc. & tries to get the jump on the tech trends by being the first with Blu-Ray technology. Not to mention HD capabilities) .3rd Party Strength (what made the PS1 champion & subsequently the PS2, Sony hopes for this crucial component to continue for the PS3. Those powerhouse franchises from Square, Capcom & the like as well as other various 3rd party offerings are what make Playstation what it is today)
WEAKNESSES .What's New? (there's a ho-hum feeling in the gaming audience lately & this feeling will increase over the coming years. Each previous generation brought something drastically different to the table but the spark is starting to fizzle out. A crash is on the horizon. If PS3 seems like nothing more than a mere update to the PS2, then that spells long term trouble for Sony & any hopes for a PS4) .High Cost (once you go much over $200 for a game system people get chafed. With high gas prices & a bumbling economy a high cost for entertainment may seem superfluous & some buyers may ignore the system. there are some who may say "I can go to a 'massage parlor' for $400!"-[to keep it clean]) .Gambling On A Tech Format Standard (memories of the Betamax are still fresh & Sony's pull for Blu-Ray is in a 50/50 chance for gain or fail. if adopted as standard Sony gets the headstart. if NOT adopted Sony's stuck with a collector's item) .King Of The Hill Syndrome (once you're on top there's nowhere to go but down. you can either maintain your acme or tumble down the slopes to the anxious competition. Sony has to maintain their position and with X-Box 360 & Nintendo Revolution this may not be possible)
=============== Microsoft X-Box 360 =============== STRENGTHS .Online Capability. (X-Box Live helped create a distinct identity apart from Playstation that has given X-Box as edge. This edge will grow in the next generation as X-Box focuses more on the service) .First Out The Gate. (X-Box 360 gets to marinate in the minds of gamers over the holidays & in the first parts of 2006 giving it the 'golden one & only' status. this will help it increase its marketshare edge against Playstation) .Name. (X-BOX. Simplistic short abrupt 'X-otic' name makes it memorable in the minds of new potential gamers who've never played a game system before. Playstation was a strong name that denoted 'the place, the location where games are played' [a universal feel]. But it has too many syllables. The letter "X" is a letter used for many things & in many sayings. The word "Box" has easy common familiarity {sandbox, boxing, mailbox, cardboard box}. The "x" in "box" takes you back to the "X" at the beginning of the name. And like the letters "Q" & "Z", "X" has an exotic flavor in the English language due to its limited use. The brandname was meant to be highly memorable to stick in buyers' heads.) .Has Something To Prove. (Microsoft wants their gamesystem to take over Sony's market this generation. they seek to siphon away Sony's audience to theirs. to do this they seek to make themselves distinct from Sony so people will have a reason for buying their offering. this results in the lauding of their power & system capabilities as well as aggresive marketing tactics. high ambition will serve them well as they continue their erosion of Sony's market dominance)
WEAKNESSES .Identity. (X-Box STILL has problems when it comes creating a distinction between them & Sony when many games on their system are available on Playstation 2. If this trend continues X-Box 360 will end up looking like a 5th wheel in the long run. With the strength of the Halo franchise & Rare on their team as well as their strong online they have created some differences but it's not enough. X-Box will have to get more exclusivity in the gaming experience if it hopes to erode Sony) .Bill Gates-A-Phobia. (some people refuse to trust Microsoft for fear of monopoly & all that comes with it. no matter WHAT Microsoft is offering good or bad there are some who refuse to pay tribute to the world's richest man. When you see takes like "Micro$oft" & "M$" there's a big wall of distrust that could hinder X-Box 360's plans.) .High Cost (once again when you go over $200 for a gamesystem you're pushing it. yeah some will pony up but others will find it hard to part with those hard earned dollars for a gamesystem regardless of what you purport it to be. there are some who say "a woman better pop out of the gameslot for THAT price!" .First Out The Gate. (yes this is also a weakness. going first may lead you to being one-upped by the competition who took longer to display their goods. Short-term win, long-term loss. X-Box 360 better hope their technology stands the test of time or either that no one will care if it HAS been one-upped) .What's New? (once again like Sony but to a lesser extent. Still X-Box 360 has to convince the gaming public what's REALLY so special about what you're offering me? Graphics are not the key to success this time around. Photorealism is practically realized & the gamesystems of the future will eventually seem like nothing more than mere updates to the system they just had. Eventually that will wear a good portion of the gaming public down who may wander elsewhere with their entertainment dollars. If the NEXT-next gen X-Box 360-Spherical is to come about they have to address this problem soon)
============== Nintendo Revolution ============== STRENGTHS .Heritage/History (Nintendo will ALWAYS have its heritage to count on. The gaming masterpieces they put out over the decades have shaped the world of gaming time & time again. People have grown up with them & that is a substantial component of their success. Even for those who left the Nintendo house there's a soft spot in people's hearts for this company. This will pan out with gold in Nintendo's retro gaming smorgasbord) .1st Party Power (Unlike the other companies Nintendo is the only true one who can put out its OWN in-house games & make not only hits but classics with. And not just a few at that. That ability to create new franchises & superstars serves this company very well. The mascot power is not to be overlooked. Many a Happy Meal was sold due to an overgrown red-headed clown's face) .Innovators/Standard Makers. (many of the standards we see in the current gaming experience originated with Nintendo. Their ability to keep it fresh is what makes them truly the driving force behind this industry whether or not they are the market champion. With the Revolution they stand to do it once again by flipping the script on how games are played with the new Revolution controller. More than any other entertainment field gaming must stay innovative to survive.) .Underdog/Dark Horse. (the one-time dominator of the industry is now seen as an also-ran by many. Many skip mentioning them as a factor in the next-generation because they assume it's past last call for Nintendo. But they may have assumed wrong. Unlike the other companies Nintendo even in its reduced space in the market still stays comfortably in the black. Being overlooked has its advantages. It allows you to formulate strategies to upset your competitors away from the glare of the spotlight. For a company to lose so much position on marketshare but continue to profit denotes some kind of "coiled-snakes-in-the-peanut-brittle jar type of surprise that may spring out unexpectedly shocking everyone.) .Low Cost. (Nintendo's ability to create high-quality tech at low prices will help them tremendously in this Bushconomy where people chafe at the gas tanks & weaker jobs. As a matter of fact these two things may work together as people opt to stay home more to avoid using the car which will result in people using their limited funds for cheap-priced gaming entertainment.) .FREE Online Capablities. (if Nintendo pulls off a quality online service & makes it FREE to use they have usurped X-Box 360's advantage. X-Box Live has a fee. They would have to have more exclusive games to make it worth the while. Nintendo has exclusive games but with the word FREE you can't be beat! And in the process X-Box 360's distinction erodes THIS time in the favor of Nintendo.)
WEAKNESSES .Volume/3rd Party Weakness. (this has been Nintendo's problem since the Nintendo 64. With the virtual exodus of the 3rd party of those times Nintendo has not quite recovered. Although their 1st party titles are always knockouts, games take longer to produce than in decades past. This means you need 3rd party gamemakers to fill in the gaps between homemade releases so heavy-collecting gamers won't get bored. .Image. (Nintendo's strategy of being the "family-based" system has its good points but has left Nintendo labeled "the kiddie system". Even though games are for children & the child-at-heart Nintendo has to at least alter aspects of this image. Not by changing their marketing demographics, no, but by broadening the array of games they have available to entice the buyers who discounted them to give them another chance.) .Luddites. (innovations have their drawbacks. there are some afraid of the unknown. Nintendo's remote-like controller may be too out there for some used to the way things are now. as a result some may flat out refuse to try out the innovation on sight-alone. If too much of the gaming public shares this mindset, the limb Nintendo went out on
...
============= Sony Playstation 3 ============= STRENGTHS .The 'Sony' brandname.
This could end up working against them if the machine is really expensive and people start remembering all the problems they had with the Playstation 2.
WEAKNESSES .Gambling On A Tech Format Standard (memories of the Betamax are still fresh & Sony's pull for Blu-Ray is in a 50/50 chance for gain or fail. if adopted as standard Sony gets the headstart. if NOT adopted Sony's stuck with a collector's item)
Even if Blu-Ray fails as a DVD format, it can still work as the PS3 format. Look at UMD on the PSP. There are no other devices that support it at all and yet the format is thriving (mostly because the Sony-owned studios are supporting it.)
=============== Microsoft X-Box 360 ===============
WEAKNESSES .Identity. (X-Box STILL has problems when it comes creating a distinction between them & Sony when many games on their system are available on Playstation 2.
I think you've got it backwards. Most of the Playstation games are ported to the Xbox, not the other way around. The best performing PS2 games, the GTA series, moved to the Xbox as well. Meanwhile the PS2 has yet to see the likes of Halo, Crimson Skies, Knights of the Old Republic 1 and 2, Jade Empire, Ninja Gaiden, Project Gotham 1 and 2, etc.
.High Cost (once again when you go over $200 for a gamesystem you're pushing it. yeah some will pony up but others will find it hard to part with those hard earned dollars for a gamesystem regardless of what you purport it to be. there are some who say "a woman better pop out of the gameslot for THAT price!"
Both the Xbox and PS2 launched at $300, it didn't seem to hurt them. The Gamecube launched at $200 and it didn't help them.
============== Nintendo Revolution ============== STRENGTHS .1st Party Power (Unlike the other companies Nintendo is the only true one who can put out its OWN in-house games & make not only hits but classics with.
Nintendo's first party games are usually well reviewed when they come out. The problem is that they don't come out with any kind of frequency to support a platform. You can't have a console with 2 decent games a year which is pretty much where the Gamecube is sitting right now.
WEAKNESSES
You miss the key weakness of Nintendo and that's a critical mis-reading of the gaming audience. For the past several years the mantra has been "Games are too hard! People want simple games!" and it's proven to be a disaster for them. They've been the last to do any kind of networking at all because they've been saying that people don't want online games... DOH! Wrong again. There's no reason to think this new controller innovation will be any different.
MY PREDICTIONS:
For the first year of the Xbox 360 financial pundits will look at the top 10 or 20 selling games and bemoan the fact that there are no 360 titles on it, despite the fact that it's a generation ahead and has a user-base that's only a fraction of the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube user base.
The Gamecube will launch sometime after April, 2006. It will be seen as a godly machine by all the Nintendo fanboys but the general public will look at it and go "Huh?" The new controller design will be seen as a gimmick and not a very good one at that. Backwards compatibility will be incredibly cool, but Nintendo will do something to screw up the delivery system (like the E-Reader).
The PS3 will launch in Japan in late 2006 possibly slipping to early 2007 for the U.S. and other territories. The success of the platform is going to be tied to the pricing. If Blu-Ray players are hugely expensive ($800 to $1000) and the PS3 comes in under that ($500 to $600) then there will be the perception of value and it could take off. If it launches at the same price or more than stand alone Blu-Ray players it will be slow to be accepted giving the edge to the 360. Too many "ifs" to accurately predict at this time.
> Just need to add in my fifth of a dime right quick. > For all gameplayers: > The Future of the Next-Generation of Gaming.
> Here's the skinny folks.
I don't give a flying ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffish
-- Paul (Sometimes my mind plays tricks on me) ------------------------------------------------------- Stop and Look http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
> ============= > Sony Playstation 3 > ============= > STRENGTHS > .The 'Sony' brandname.
> This could end up working against them if the machine is really > expensive and people start remembering all the problems they had with > the Playstation 2.
> WEAKNESSES > .Gambling On A Tech Format Standard > (memories of the Betamax are still fresh & Sony's pull for Blu-Ray is > in a > 50/50 chance for gain or fail. if adopted as standard Sony gets the > headstart. if NOT adopted Sony's stuck with a collector's item)
> Even if Blu-Ray fails as a DVD format, it can still work as the PS3 > format. Look at UMD on the PSP. There are no other devices that support > it at all and yet the format is thriving (mostly because the Sony-owned > studios are supporting it.)
> =============== > Microsoft X-Box 360 > ===============
> WEAKNESSES > .Identity. > (X-Box STILL has problems when it comes creating a distinction between > them > & Sony when many games on their system are available on Playstation 2.
> I think you've got it backwards. Most of the Playstation games are > ported to the Xbox, not the other way around. The best performing PS2 > games, the GTA series, moved to the Xbox as well. Meanwhile the PS2 has > yet to see the likes of Halo, Crimson Skies, Knights of the Old > Republic 1 and 2, Jade Empire, Ninja Gaiden, Project Gotham 1 and 2, > etc.
> .High Cost > (once again when you go over $200 for a gamesystem you're pushing it. > yeah > some will pony up but others will find it hard to part with those hard > earned dollars for a gamesystem regardless of what you purport it to > be. > there are some who say "a woman better pop out of the gameslot for THAT > price!"
> Both the Xbox and PS2 launched at $300, it didn't seem to hurt them. > The Gamecube launched at $200 and it didn't help them.
> ============== > Nintendo Revolution > ============== > STRENGTHS > .1st Party Power > (Unlike the other companies Nintendo is the only true one who can put > out > its OWN in-house games & make not only hits but classics with.
> Nintendo's first party games are usually well reviewed when they come > out. The problem is that they don't come out with any kind of frequency > to support a platform. You can't have a console with 2 decent games a > year which is pretty much where the Gamecube is sitting right now.
> WEAKNESSES
> You miss the key weakness of Nintendo and that's a critical mis-reading > of the gaming audience. For the past several years the mantra has been > "Games are too hard! People want simple games!" and it's proven to be a > disaster for them. They've been the last to do any kind of networking > at all because they've been saying that people don't want online > games... DOH! Wrong again. There's no reason to think this new > controller innovation will be any different.
Yep...also it is going to take a STRONG effort on Nintendo's part to get back into the minds of gamers. They have dropped out of peoples minds when it comes to games/gaming. Most conversation now days involves Xbox and Playstation.
> For the first year of the Xbox 360 financial pundits will look at the > top 10 or 20 selling games and bemoan the fact that there are no 360 > titles on it, despite the fact that it's a generation ahead and has a > user-base that's only a fraction of the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube user base.
> The Gamecube will launch sometime after April, 2006. It will be seen as > a godly machine by all the Nintendo fanboys but the general public will > look at it and go "Huh?" The new controller design will be seen as a > gimmick and not a very good one at that. Backwards compatibility will > be incredibly cool, but Nintendo will do something to screw up the > delivery system (like the E-Reader).
> The PS3 will launch in Japan in late 2006 possibly slipping to early > 2007 for the U.S. and other territories. The success of the platform is > going to be tied to the pricing. If Blu-Ray players are hugely > expensive ($800 to $1000) and the PS3 comes in under that ($500 to > $600) then there will be the perception of value and it could take off. > If it launches at the same price or more than stand alone Blu-Ray > players it will be slow to be accepted giving the edge to the 360. Too > many "ifs" to accurately predict at this time.
In article <dki1qp01...@enews1.newsguy.com>, johnlu...@coastalnow.net says...
> MY PREDICTIONS: > Nintendo (believe it or not) will eventually come out on top this > generation. They offer a totally new experience that will be sure to pull in > not just PS gamers & X-Box gamers but people who have never fathomed > TOUCHING a game. They will pull in new buyers & create gamers on the spot.
ROFLMAO! You either work for Nintendo, or you are high on crack. There is no way in hell that Nintendo will be more than an also-ran in this generation. That controller is going to be a huge flop, and the hardware is so far behind the other two that no one will want the games. I'm betting all of the 3rd party game developers that have, in the past, done with Nintendo exclusive titles will be bailing as fast as rats on a sinking ship.
I just guessing, that you are a fortuneteller, right. How could you possibly know, that the controller will be a flop? So far, their are developers how like and then some they don't. We will see, if its their and what kind a games will surface. I don't think Nintendo will be reaching #2 in the line, but certainly they will have strong sales and make money. And their attempt to drain in new customers who never played a consolegame, with their new controller system, will maybe help the entire business. We shall see, how it turns out in the future.
<rob_berryh...@hotmail.com> wrote: >In article <dki1qp01...@enews1.newsguy.com>, johnlu...@coastalnow.net >says... >> MY PREDICTIONS: >> Nintendo (believe it or not) will eventually come out on top this >> generation. They offer a totally new experience that will be sure to pull in >> not just PS gamers & X-Box gamers but people who have never fathomed >> TOUCHING a game. They will pull in new buyers & create gamers on the spot.
>ROFLMAO! You either work for Nintendo, or you are high on crack. There >is no way in hell that Nintendo will be more than an also-ran in this >generation. That controller is going to be a huge flop, and the hardware >is so far behind the other two that no one will want the games. I'm >betting all of the 3rd party game developers that have, in the past, >done with Nintendo exclusive titles will be bailing as fast as rats on a >sinking ship.
I also like Nintendo once again showing their shortsightedness (as in skipping online gaming this gen) by supporting only 480p resolution. Bravo! This is a console that is supposed to last until 2011 or so.
> I also like Nintendo once again showing their shortsightedness (as in > skipping online gaming this gen) by supporting only 480p resolution. > Bravo! This is a console that is supposed to last until 2011 or so.
No I don't work for Nintendo. And I'm a teetotaller. I'm just looking at what the gaming scene seems to point to. I truly believe that counting out Nintendo will prove to be a regretful decision that will bite people in the ass. Hardware differences are getting moot at this point. This generation all games systems put out a quality visual experience. Practical realism was achieved (I'll write a post about the importance of graphics & games in the future). From here there's not much more to go in that regard.
It's like counting the differences between 10 billion, 11 billion & 12 billion. You still have ridiculous amounts & by that point the differences mean next to nothing anymore. Sure you can paint your house in infrared & ultraviolet but your eyes are not going to be able to pick anything beyond plain ol' red & violet.
And you're wrong that 3rd party developers are not interested. Maybe the Epic Games VP, Mark Reign, doesn't see much promise in it but many others do. There's been articles about it. Here's one: http://cube.ign.com/articles/660/660408p1.html
What these plan to do if anything with the Revolution is anybody's guess but there's a serious buzz around Nintendo's newest for good reason. I think you're underestimating the 'bored gamer' contingent. The ones who have been soured on gaming for whatever reason this generation. I feel very confident that Nintendo will pick up that contingent giving them the power on the gaming scene. Once Nintendo calms fears about the ease of use of this product things will be looking up for them most definitely. Eventually as they put out never-before-seen types of games making hits it will gradually entice the 3rd parties who largely exited them from the N64 days to come back as the public digs Nintendo's style. 3rd parties go where the profit is, always remember. Once THAT happens Nintendo is poised to be the leader. You put your 1st, 2nd AND 3rd parties together it is all said & done. Nintendo ALWAYS & WILL ALWAYS have the 1st. And they got good 2nds. When the 3rd parties return to Nintendo THAT'S the moment when the gamescene changes. Sony & X-Box's 1st party cannot support their systems alone. X-Box's can slightly more but not much. 1st party is mostly what has kept Nintendo alive all these 10 years.
That's why I say don't count them out. They've somehow stayed comfortably in the black with a much weakened marketplace representation over the years. If they can thrive in drought then they can dominate in precipitation.
You will understand what I'm saying once the Revolution in-store demos come about next year. That controller is truly genius & will really shake up things this time around. If you can get grandma & grandpa playing, you can get anybody playing. And you know Nintendo's company philosophy about being the 'for-all-audiences' gaming company. I'm looking at what I see & I see a coiled snake about to strike in 2006 called Revolution.
John Lucas
"Rob Berryhill" <rob_berryh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> In article <dki1qp01...@enews1.newsguy.com>, johnlu...@coastalnow.net > says... > > MY PREDICTIONS: > > Nintendo (believe it or not) will eventually come out on top this > > generation. They offer a totally new experience that will be sure to pull in > > not just PS gamers & X-Box gamers but people who have never fathomed > > TOUCHING a game. They will pull in new buyers & create gamers on the spot.
> ROFLMAO! You either work for Nintendo, or you are high on crack. There > is no way in hell that Nintendo will be more than an also-ran in this > generation. That controller is going to be a huge flop, and the hardware > is so far behind the other two that no one will want the games. I'm > betting all of the 3rd party game developers that have, in the past, > done with Nintendo exclusive titles will be bailing as fast as rats on a > sinking ship.
"Don't kid yourself - you're going to see more gimmicky, crappy, cheap, I-wish-I-hadn't-bought-it gimmick games based around that controller than you can ever possibly imagine."
"I guarantee you there's going to be lots of people who say the whole reason for this game is this controller, we made the perfect game for the controller. And all it'll be is about the controller, and not necessarily a great game."
In other words, just like the DS or the Sony EyeToy.
"This generation all games systems put out a quality visual experience. It's like counting the differences between 10 billion, 11 billion & 12 billion. You still have ridiculous amounts & by that point the differences mean next to nothing anymore. "
Try playing Half-Life 2 or Doom 3 on your PC at 640x480 and then at 1280x720 and tell me the difference is negligible. That's the difference between Revolution's 480p and the 360 and PS3's 720p. PS3 at 1080p is 1920x1080 for an even bigger difference. And when you consider the fact that many people will (by 2011 or whenever the next gen comes) be playing these games on screens twice to five times as big as a computer monitor, the difference is enormous.
" I think you're underestimating the 'bored gamer' contingent. The ones who have been soured on gaming for whatever reason this generation. I feel very confident that Nintendo will pick up that contingent giving them the power on the gaming scene. "
When you consider that Sony sold PS2s almost 1:1 with the number of Playstations sold in addition to the millions of Gamecubes and Xboxes I'd argue that the "bored gamer contingent" is non-existent. If there were a significant number of bored gamers then the gaming market would be shrinking as people trade their game machines for cell phones and blackberries. The problem is that's not happening.
Jordan: [About The 'Sony' brandname] "This could end up working against them if the machine is really expensive and people start remembering all the problems they had with the Playstation 2."
John Lucas: Perhaps. I think this is part of why some have started to gravitate toward the X-Box. But the Sony brandname is mighty strong. That name is EVERYWHERE & there are some people who buy one thing from a company & then trust whatever that company puts out. They buy a Sony CD player & have a good experience with it then if they're find themselves in the mood to buy a gamesystem they're less adverse to trying Sony's product. In fact they may equate the brandname with the quality of the product & not even think about what the others have to offer. It's a trust thing. Sony makes EVERYTHING damn near. I didn't even know they made batteries until recently! Blank CD's, TV's, Movies, Music. Microsoft is only known in the realm of computer software. Nintendo is only known in gaming. But Sony's name is on many many things in many many places & that name will stick in the minds of potential consumers. In fact I would say it's a large component of their success.
Jordan: [About Gambiling On A Tech Format Standard] "Even if Blu-Ray fails as a DVD format, it can still work as the PS3 format. Look at UMD on the PSP. There are no other devices that support it at all and yet the format is thriving (mostly because the Sony-owned studios are supporting it.)"
John Lucas: Hmm I suppose. But if it does fail to be accepted Sony loses one of their selling points. It could work in their favor if they use the PS3 as a place to play their own Blu-Ray entertainment discs which MAY persuade buyers to buy a Playstation 3 as a Blu-Ray player rather than a gaming system but this is shaky. Like I said it's a 50/50 situation. Time will tell on this matter.
Jordan: [About X-Box360 Identity] "I think you've got it backwards. Most of the Playstation games are ported to the Xbox, not the other way around. The best performing PS2 games, the GTA series, moved to the Xbox as well. Meanwhile the PS2 has yet to see the likes of Halo, Crimson Skies, Knights of the Old Republic 1 and 2, Jade Empire, Ninja Gaiden, Project Gotham 1 and 2, etc."
John Lucas: Well that's like saying X-Box has yet to see Final Fantasy & SOCOM. Those are exclusives & some of them are 1st party. But those things you mentioned are what X-Box 360 needs to continue to do in order to pull away from Sony. I should have mentioned the color green as one of X-Box's strengths. It makes them seem exciting & different. Edgy. This subtle little matter makes people wanna try that system out more I think. I can see X-Box really putting a dent into Sony's plans this time around. I got a feeling X-Box will split the Sony-only audience. We're not talking about the gamers who buy all systems but the ones who are dedicated to one system over the others. I think this is THE BIGGEST matter Microsoft has to solve to move forward. Once people can feel a strong difference between the PS3 & the X-Box 360, X-Box 360 will benefit.
Jordan: [About High Cost] "Both the Xbox and PS2 launched at $300, it didn't seem to hurt them. The Gamecube launched at $200 and it didn't help them."
John Lucas: Also 4 & 5 years ago people didn't struggle quite as bad financially either. A difference one administration can make. And I don't even see $300 as the price. I've seen preorder packages of $700 & crap!! That's ridiculous! Sega Saturn suffered putting out that high price. Oh of course you'll get customers from those who really want it but you'll turn off others who don't feel comfortable putting that kind of money on games. And think about parents & kids. A parent sees $400 & $500 for a gamesystem & they're like "Kiss My Ass!". You can get a computer for that! And think about a couple with the guy wanting to spend $400 or $500 on a system getting into it with his girlfriend. $300 is probably the highest you can go before people outright refuse. Some people put things on layway (you gotta think about all the economic classes) & prices like that can be mighty steep. To justify that price the system will have to REALLY make you think it's providing something irreplacable or exquisite. A slight improvment in graphics ain't gonna do it this time around. Photorealism is achieved. This ain't 1989 anymore when you could only use 3-colored sprites.
Nintendo's bargain-bonanza strategy in conjunction with their fresh innovative interplay MAY upstage the show for the other two. Gas is high. Money is tight. People cut out the extracurricular when they tighten their belts. That $200 starting point or LESS will DEFINITELY be a BIG selling factor this time around, you better believe.
Jordan: [About Nintendo's 1st Party Power] "Nintendo's first party games are usually well reviewed when they come out. The problem is that they don't come out with any kind of frequency to support a platform. You can't have a console with 2 decent games a year which is pretty much where the Gamecube is sitting right now."
John Lucas: Yeah. I mentioned this in the Nintendo WEAKNESS section. Volume/3rd Party Weakness. Like I said in there games take longer to make today than in the past because of the complexity. It's not simple sprites & coding anymore. More expensive as a result all of which ends up with fewer games in raw volume. But as a strength this is one of Nintendo's greatest. That is undeniable. In fact no one else could really do it on 1st party virtually alone & profit like Nintendo has. That says something about the power of products they produce. They solve the volume problem & it's a new day for Mario's Homebase.
Jordan: [About Nintendo's WEAKNESSES] "You miss the key weakness of Nintendo and that's a critical mis-reading of the gaming audience. For the past several years the mantra has been "Games are too hard! People want simple games!" and it's proven to be a disaster for them. They've been the last to do any kind of networking at all because they've been saying that people don't want online games... DOH! Wrong again. There's no reason to think this new controller innovation will be any different."
John Lucas: Well I wouldn't necessarily say that. Remember Nintendo's not a multimedia monolith like Sony or backed by the world's richest man like Microsoft. They have to play it smarter than that. Those companies can absorb massive losses & survive but Nintendo can't. Their bread & butter is the games & gamesystems they make. This is the key difference between Sega & Nintendo when everyone keeps predicting the doom of Nintendo. Nintendo always keeps itself funded. In the Black. They HAVE to. They have R&D to support, marketing, production, shipping, warehousing. If they provide a service or create a production model that loses them money then they can't continue to produce what they produce AT ALL no matter HOW MUCH it is accepted & lauded.
If Nintendo suffered a $4,000,000,000 loss (that's 4 Billion), Mario would be back in Brooklyn working odd fix-it jobs living in a ratty apartment, Satoru Iwata would become a door-to-door Hanafuda card salesman with Shigeru Miyamoto cutting the cards on a T-Square! Meanwhile Koji Kondo would be writing the jingles for late-night TV ads! Their decisions HAVE cost them some audience but they have to make sure they can continue to put out what they can by doing what's best for their continuance. There were problems with CD's in the 1990's that Nintendo didn't like & they stuck with what they felt was a more reliable medium. Online gaming still has some issues to work out & Nintendo hasn't fully pursued this direction. You gotta remember the Virtual Boy fiasco of 1995 to understand Nintendo's cautiousness. I think the Revolution will tie up all these loose ends. Their quirky way of approaching the industry pays off more than it doesn't. Sometimes it's glitchy but in the long run they know what they're doing. Think of this when you wonder about Nintendo's decisions: "Quality product at reasonable price" I'd rather them get it right then do it wrong trying to keep up with the Joneses.
Games are too hard? When did Nintendo say this? I don't remember that. I've heard them talk about wanting to incorporate the whole family into gaming but talking about simple games? Maybe you're confusing your quotes or something here.
Jordan's PREDICTIONS (Paragraph #1): "For the first year of the Xbox 360 financial pundits will look at the top 10 or 20 selling games and bemoan the fact that there are no 360 titles on it, despite the fact that it's a generation ahead and has a user-base that's only a fraction of the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube user base."
John Lucas: Hmmm. I don't think that's going to pan out like you called it. I see the X-Box 360 getting HIGHLY *HIGHLY* aggressive this time around. Their test will truly begin when the Sony Playstation 3 launches. That's the time to see how much they can split & claim Sony's audience. Their success at doing it determines Microsoft's future in the console videogame industry. Don't underestimate them. I see hunger in X-Box's eyes. Or should I say exes?
Jordan's PREDICTIONS (Paragraph #2): "The Gamecube will launch sometime after April, 2006. It will be seen as a godly machine by all the Nintendo fanboys but the general public will look at it and go "Huh?" The new controller design will be seen as a gimmick and not a very good one at that. Backwards compatibility will be incredibly cool, but Nintendo will do something to screw up the delivery system (like the E-Reader)."
John Lucas: People sure love to use that word a lot don't they? "Fanboy". I remember an episode of the cartoon "Freakazoid" years ago who had a character named that but how did this word get so widespread? Anyway... A gimmick? Hmmmm. How this new controller is received will be determined by the hands-on displays at the demos. And if what I've been hearing about how good this thing is is true then you
...
> John Lucas: Also 4 & 5 years ago people didn't struggle quite as bad > financially either. A difference one administration can make. And I don't > even see $300 as the price. I've seen preorder packages of $700 & crap!!
Yes, but the $700 stickers aren't being dictated by Microsoft, it's the retailers doing that for the same reason they tried to push bundles last time... They make a higher profit margin that way. If people go out Tuesday morning they will have their choice of the $300 or $400 packages. The people who snooze will have to deal with the scalpers.
> Some people put things on layway (you gotta think about all the economic classes) & > prices like that can be mighty steep.
New product launches aren't about all economic classes. Product launches are for people who will blow $400 without batting an eye. The other economic classes don't kick in until there's a ready made supply of $20 games available in the bargain bin at Wally World and that's not going to happen probably for the first 6 months to a year.
> Games are too hard? When did Nintendo say this? I don't remember that.
You can see this in the design of the Gamecube controller with the large, centrally located button. Also in the design of the DS with the plethora of 5 second mini-games. Nintendo has been trying to dumb down gaming ever since the N64 tanked and all it's done is reduce their marketshare.
> Don't underestimate them. I see hunger in X-Box's eyes. Or should I say > exes?
I'm not underestimating them, I know Microsoft is going to market the hell out of the machine. But I guarantee it's not going to sell enough units to have game sales crack the top 20 list in the first year. Remember, according to Sony there are some 100 million PS2s out there. It only takes a fraction of that base to make a game a "greatest hit". Meanwhile on the 360 side they will have to have a title sell almost 1:1 with the unit to even crack the top 20. In the absence of a killer ap like Halo that's not going to happen (and no, PD0 and Kameo are NOT killer aps.)
> John Lucas: People sure love to use that word a lot don't they? "Fanboy". I > remember an episode of the cartoon "Freakazoid" years ago who had a > character named that but how did this word get so widespread?
You can thank comic book character Lobo (1992) for that. Also the source of "Frag".
In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Rob <robertnospamaccoma...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> They're not skipping Online Gaming
But they are skipping HD.
And from what I've seen of the controller, they're also skipping 3rd party support, not to mention multi-platform games.
Yeah, it's a novel idea and I'm sure a few games may even be pretty good with it, but realistically, it's going to be considered just a toy. An expensive toy with low market penetration.
I don't think the Revolution is going to appeal to non-gamers. If a non-gamer decided to get a game console, most likely they'll walk into a store and ask what's the most popular one to get - and here's a hint, it ain't going to be the Revolution. Otherwise, non-gamers will stay away because they're still not going to be interested.
> OMG! We need to compete with this! Quick! Make a controller that does > the same thing before Sony and Microsoft get hip to it!
> - Jordan
Am I remembering this wrong, or are there supposed to be gamecube controller ports??? Because if there are, that would allow for very traditional games. I mean, sure, the 360 and PS3 have "new" controllers, but they are pretty darn close to being the same thing that last gen was. The gamecube controllers would allow for the regular old gameplay that people have had, and the new controller would allow for a totally new kind of gameplay that has not been seen before?? mabye?
"Doug Jacobs" <djac...@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message >> They're not skipping Online Gaming
> But they are skipping HD.
Meh, over rated.
> And from what I've seen of the controller, they're also skipping 3rd party > support, not to mention multi-platform games.
Proof that Doug has officially kill filed every intelligent person on this newsgroup and built a world of ignorance... lol.
> Yeah, it's a novel idea and I'm sure a few games may even be pretty good > with it, but realistically, it's going to be considered just a toy. An > expensive toy
How so? It's supposedly going to be rather cheap.
> with low market penetration.
Meh, more ignorance. It'll be many people's second system.
> I don't think the Revolution is going to appeal to non-gamers.
I think it will appeal to non-gamers because it gets rid of many of the road blocks from getting into gaming. EXTREMELY SIMPLIFIED CONTROLS will make gaming accessible to non-gamers.
> If a > non-gamer decided to get a game console, most likely they'll walk into a > store and ask what's the most popular one to get - and here's a hint, it > ain't going to be the Revolution.
Speculation... Especially if it gets positioned as accessible up front. New to gaming? Rev.
> Otherwise, non-gamers will stay away > because they're still not going to be interested.
Ignorance... Time will tell, but I'm sure it will interest non-gamers since Nintendo has a track record for doing that since NES.
In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Fred Liken <notha...@toocoolforschool.com> wrote:
> "Doug Jacobs" <djac...@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message > >> They're not skipping Online Gaming
> > But they are skipping HD. > Meh, over rated.
Yes...and no. HD is becoming more ubiquitous, and will continue to do so throughout the next gen's lifecycle. Just as many people don't like having the black bars above and below their movies on their older TVs, it's certain that these same people won't like having the grey bars on the right and left of their picture while playing video games.
Also, if there are any cross-platform games between the Revolution and the 360, the difference in the graphics is going to be very apparent.
> > And from what I've seen of the controller, they're also skipping 3rd party > > support, not to mention multi-platform games. > Proof that Doug has officially kill filed every intelligent person on this > newsgroup and built a world of ignorance... lol.
Ok, and how are you drawing this conclusion? From what I've seen and read about the Revolution's controllers, they're mainly planning on have their little "magic-wand" system. While I've heard it mentioned that there will be a more traditional controller solution available, Nintendo hasn't made it public yet. Maybe they'll do it, maybe they won't. The only thing that IS certain is their wireless controller, which is going to make.
> > Yeah, it's a novel idea and I'm sure a few games may even be pretty good > > with it, but realistically, it's going to be considered just a toy. An > > expensive toy > How so? It's supposedly going to be rather cheap.
So, say it's $200 at launch like the GameCube was. The games are probably still going to be $50-60. I don't consider that to be cheap. Cheaper than a PS3 or 360 perhaps but still not cheap.
> > with low market penetration. > Meh, more ignorance. It'll be many people's second system.
Most people don't buy multiple consoles. They'll buy ONE console, and that'll be it. Sure, gamers will buy multiple consoles, but being someone's #2 console isn't going to sustain the company that well.
> > I don't think the Revolution is going to appeal to non-gamers. > I think it will appeal to non-gamers because it gets rid of many of the road > blocks from getting into gaming. EXTREMELY SIMPLIFIED CONTROLS will make > gaming accessible to non-gamers.
I guess it'll depend on why someone is a non-gamer in the first place. If they think games are too complicated (too many buttons, sticks, etc.) then MAYBE the Revolution may appeal to them. If they just don't like games in the first place, they might fiddle with a Revolution in the store, but I doubt they'll feel compelled to spend money on it. But I think it's rather unwise to think that the Revolution is going to suddenly cause a whole group of people to start playing games for the first time.
> > If a > > non-gamer decided to get a game console, most likely they'll walk into a > > store and ask what's the most popular one to get - and here's a hint, it > > ain't going to be the Revolution. > Speculation... Especially if it gets positioned as accessible up front. > New to gaming? Rev.
I was thinking more along the lines of what would a store clerk answer. Since most clerks aren't that knowledge about gaming (even the ones in the gaming stores) they're going to probably point to what's been selling better - and I'm betting that's going to be the 360 or the PS3. Speculation - yes, but I stand by hypothesis that the Revolution is going to come in a distant 3rd this round.
> > Otherwise, non-gamers will stay away > > because they're still not going to be interested. > Ignorance... Time will tell, but I'm sure it will interest non-gamers since > Nintendo has a track record for doing that since NES.
Nintendo also has the image of being a kiddie console. While Nintendo has been working to dispel this image since the N64, the fact that many of their strongest titles remain Mario-related isn't helping much.
Finally, even if the Revolution does convince some non-gamers to pick up a Nintendo console, it's not going to do Nintendo a whole lot of good unless they also continue to buy games.
Doug Jacobs <djac...@shell.rawbw.com> writes: >> Proof that Doug has officially kill filed every intelligent person on this >> newsgroup and built a world of ignorance... lol.
> Ok, and how are you drawing this conclusion? From what I've seen and read > about the Revolution's controllers, they're mainly planning on have their > little "magic-wand" system.
Using pejorative terms like "little magic-wand system" (for something you have absolutely no experience with) makes you look insecure and fanboyish.
> Nintendo also has the image of being a kiddie console. While Nintendo has > been working to dispel this image since the N64, the fact that many of > their strongest titles remain Mario-related isn't helping much.
The mario-related titles seem to be by far the strongest sellers, so it's hard to blame them. Blame the gaming public instead.
-miles -- o The existentialist, not having a pillow, goes everywhere with the book by Sullivan, _I am going to spit on your graves_.
> ROFLMAO! You either work for Nintendo, or you are high on crack. There
> is no way in hell that Nintendo will be more than an also-ran in this > generation. That controller is going to be a huge flop
The controller really a gutsy move by Nintendo, I'll give them that. They're really going all-or-nothing on that one. The big, HUGE question for me (and one that, surprisingly, I don't hear many people asking) is: "WILL IT ACTUALLY WORK AS ADVERTISED?" It really all hinges on that question. If it does, it could revolutionize the industry. If not, it could well go down as one of the most embarrassing flops in the history of the industry.
Personally, I am EXTREMELY skeptical that they can deliver on their promises. This is the first controller I've ever seen in any application that claims to not only be able to track the exact position of the controller in a real world setting but also its pitch, and do both quickly enough for a no-lag screen response.
To my knowledge, this would also be the first time in history that a videogame console debuted with a controller that has absolutely no precedence in the arcade or in virtually any other application (light guns, joysticks, etc. all debuted in arcades long before they showed up in a console). I've never even seen such a thing used in the medical imagery field (where it would presumably be very useful in dealing with navigating 3-D spaces).
Personally, I think it's a bunch of bunk (and possibly just a publicity stunt). By the time the "Revolution" gets to market, it will either:
a) Feature the new controller, which will not even come close to living up to their initial advertising (no swinging it about in all directions like a bat or sword, very buggy and picky, significant lag time, etc.). Can we say "Power Glove," people?
-or-
b) Feature a traditional controller, with vague promises of the "future release" of the originally advertised controller
I hope I'm wrong on this, though. If they could truly deliver what was shown in those ads, it would be a very fun controller to have.
elro...@pop.uky.edu wrote: > The controller really a gutsy move by Nintendo, I'll give them that. > They're really going all-or-nothing on that one. The big, HUGE question > for me (and one that, surprisingly, I don't hear many people asking) > is: "WILL IT ACTUALLY WORK AS ADVERTISED?" It really all hinges on that > question. If it does, it could revolutionize the industry. If not, it > could well go down as one of the most embarrassing flops in the history > of the industry.
There's another factor besides "will it work". As I understand it, for the controller to work as advertised you have to place two sensors on top of the television. So now it's not enough that kids have to convince their parents to buy them a new game console, they also have to convince them to allow two more gadgets on top of the television and the television has to be big enough for the sensors to have a decent amount of space between them (i.e. the little 12" kids room TV set is not going to fly.)
I'd love it if Nintendo proves me wrong on this, but I don't see it being accepted by the general public.
> Yes...and no. HD is becoming more ubiquitous, and will continue to do so > throughout the next gen's lifecycle. Just as many people don't like > having the black bars above and below their movies on their older TVs, > it's certain that these same people won't like having the grey bars on the > right and left of their picture while playing video games.
Um, you don't need HD to output a 16:9 ratio.... They aren't the same thing.
> Also, if there are any cross-platform games between the Revolution and the > 360, the difference in the graphics is going to be very apparent.
Probably not all that apparent, seeing as the Rev will be pushing quite a few less pixels, so the power can be used to filter. On a normal TV, there'll be little to notice. On a high def, there'll be a difference. I'm not yet ready to say it will be all that much worse since it will also, again, be lower res. For example, like a 16 color 640X480 didn't look as good as a 256 color 320X240. That's a quarter of the pixels, mind you, but what you do with them matters more, most of the time. If you can do twice as much per pixel yet display only a quarter of them, that's aggregated to still half the power. Visually, it might be better.
Honestly, HD is overrated in this realm. That's resolution only. You can get better quality with less power at lower resolutions. Resolution isn't the end all, my friend. But, if every game has to target HD, then you aren't given that luxury. Heck, might not even be built to do it as well as less powerful hardware if it is optimized for HD.
>> > And from what I've seen of the controller, they're also skipping 3rd >> > party >> > support, not to mention multi-platform games.
>> Proof that Doug has officially kill filed every intelligent person on >> this >> newsgroup and built a world of ignorance... lol.
> Ok, and how are you drawing this conclusion? From what I've seen and read > about the Revolution's controllers, they're mainly planning on have their > little "magic-wand" system.
AND... the analog attachable controller with another button or so... Pretty much making it about the same as current and XBOX360/PS3 controlers, but with more functionality.
> While I've heard it mentioned that there will > be a more traditional controller solution available, Nintendo hasn't made > it public yet. Maybe they'll do it, maybe they won't. The only thing > that IS certain is their wireless controller, which is going to make.
Make what? The nunchuck is the same as a traditional controller, for the most part.
>> > Yeah, it's a novel idea and I'm sure a few games may even be pretty >> > good >> > with it, but realistically, it's going to be considered just a toy. An >> > expensive toy
>> How so? It's supposedly going to be rather cheap.
> So, say it's $200 at launch like the GameCube was.
That's an expensive toy? Not if the GameCube wasn't an expensive toy.
> The games are probably still going to be $50-60. I don't consider that > to be cheap. Cheaper than a PS3 or 360 perhaps but still not cheap.
Um, there's something between cheap and expensive in your world, no? It's not so binary that something can't be just right, Goldilocks?
>> > with low market penetration.
>> Meh, more ignorance. It'll be many people's second system.
> Most people don't buy multiple consoles. They'll buy ONE console, and > that'll be it.
I personally don't know anyone with just one of this gen's system. Especially when Nintendo has the best first party games and always has a must have game and it goes for 100 bucks now.
> Sure, gamers will buy multiple consoles, but being > someone's #2 console isn't going to sustain the company that well.
It's done it for two generations now.
None the less... you said market penetration. Penetration as a popular second system will sustain a company especially when they have unique software that you can't get on the other system.
>> > I don't think the Revolution is going to appeal to non-gamers.
>> I think it will appeal to non-gamers because it gets rid of many of the >> road >> blocks from getting into gaming. EXTREMELY SIMPLIFIED CONTROLS will make >> gaming accessible to non-gamers.
> I guess it'll depend on why someone is a non-gamer in the first place. If > they think games are too complicated (too many buttons, sticks, etc.) then > MAYBE the Revolution may appeal to them.
Hell yeah, it will. :)
> If they just don't like games in > the first place, they might fiddle with a Revolution in the store, but I > doubt they'll feel compelled to spend money on it.
Then accessibility isn't the issue and it's moot... what's your point?
> But I think it's > rather unwise to think that the Revolution is going to suddenly cause a > whole group of people to start playing games for the first time.
Meh, when I need advice on what's wise and not, I won't come to you. Nintendo is the company getting people playing games for the first time.
>> > If a >> > non-gamer decided to get a game console, most likely they'll walk into >> > a >> > store and ask what's the most popular one to get - and here's a hint, >> > it >> > ain't going to be the Revolution.
>> Speculation... Especially if it gets positioned as accessible up front. >> New to gaming? Rev.
> I was thinking more along the lines of what would a store clerk answer.
And... if it gets positioned as accessible up front... they'll pitch that.
> Since most clerks aren't that knowledge about gaming (even the ones in the > gaming stores) they're going to probably point to what's been selling > better - and I'm betting that's going to be the 360 or the PS3.
Assuming you are right, it doesn't take much intelligence or anything to repeat the popular statement that it is the gaming machine for newbies. If it is positioned as such, and if they just tell the clerks that, like the Nintendo rep kind of puts it in their head, then they'll say it.
> Speculation - yes, but I stand by hypothesis that the Revolution is going > to come in a distant 3rd this round.
That's fine. Wouldn't be the first time you were wrong, no?
>> > Otherwise, non-gamers will stay away >> > because they're still not going to be interested.
>> Ignorance... Time will tell, but I'm sure it will interest non-gamers >> since >> Nintendo has a track record for doing that since NES.
> Nintendo also has the image of being a kiddie console.
Um, to "gamerz" yes... but to non-gamers, they don't know shit. lol. Get it together.
> While Nintendo has > been working to dispel this image since the N64, the fact that many of > their strongest titles remain Mario-related isn't helping much.
Um, which one of the GC strongest titles was Mario related? Smash Brothers? Oh yes, super kiddy.
> Finally, even if the Revolution does convince some non-gamers to pick up a > Nintendo console, it's not going to do Nintendo a whole lot of good unless > they also continue to buy games.
That's the thing Nintendo's always has as well... People that buy Nintendo systems buy lots of games for them. They always do quite well on games to system ratios.
>> Ok, and how are you drawing this conclusion? From what I've seen and >> read >> about the Revolution's controllers, they're mainly planning on have their >> little "magic-wand" system.
> Using pejorative terms like "little magic-wand system" (for something > you have absolutely no experience with) makes you look insecure and > fanboyish.
I don't think Doug's insecure. In fact, I'd say the opposite. He's just twisting titties.
