N64, God of all systems
PMRET4LIFE
All you PSX and Sega fools bow down to the N64. You complain no software,
but take a look at your own gaming libraries. Third rate crap with a few
games worth mentioning. Look at your future. I see a semi decent FF7
which I have played and realized it does not compare to the others in the
series. Other than that you have NOTHING! You will have two hundred
games come out and 3 might be good. We have Zelda 64, Goldeneye, Turok 2,
Tonic Trouble, Mission Impossible, Banjo Kazooie(damn I hate that name),
the possible ninja based resident evil, F-Zero 64, and a modem for the
64DD. Sega is dying and PSX cares more quantity than anything else.
Nintendo has gotten all of its crap out of the way in the first wave of
titles(fare well Wargods) and now all that is left is quality.
r.talon
And Yet, we have another AOL fool with too much time on his hand. I just
love how they claim that they've played a game when in their posts all they
are trying to do is justify that their opinion is the right one. Get a
life little boy, and get off your daddy's account. It's idiots like you
that give AOL a bad name.
RT
PMRET4LIFE <pmret...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970712164...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Lower Wolf
r. talon, you criticize with little to offer in rebuttle. If you're going
to call somebody an idiot, try to have something more than an inexplicably
inflated ego to back it up.
Wolf
r.talon <Spam...@NoSPam.com> wrote in article
<01bc8ef1$f79aa160$5e625ecf@default>...
Steve Davis
Lower Wolf wrote:
>
> r. talon, you criticize with little to offer in rebuttle. If you're going
> to call somebody an idiot, try to have something more than an inexplicably
> inflated ego to back it up.
Sorry, R Talon is right. The original poster dismissed every good PSX
game, calls FFVII 'kinda' good, claims that there will be no more bad
games for the N64 (it magically 'got all the crap out of the way'
somehow. 'All that's left is quality'- Yeah sure.) and listed a bunch
of games for the N64 that either are unproven as far as content or
aren't coming out until next year. In addition, he claimed that every
upcoming PSX game was 'NOTHING!'. Seems as though the original poster
didn't have any rational or un-biased arguments either, unless you took
all of his statements as facts as well. They obviously aren't buying
these kind of statements in Japan, where the N64 is sitting in third
place behind both the PSX and even the Saturn.
The original poster was simply another AOL fool spouting off the usual
biased propaganda.
Marty Grabeck
I agree that the N64 is the best, but please STOP the flame wars. This
post will be in Usenet for weeks now because all the PSX and Sega "fools"
as you call them will reply and stick up for their system, which they have
the right to. Hey, IMHO the N64 is the best, but I think everyone who owns
the system knows that anyway.
Marty Grabeck
N64Zone Editor
http://n64zone.base.org
PMRET4LIFE wrote in article <19970712164...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
Zemeron
Did you acually read the post. R Talon says no facts and is just
mindlessly insulting. You pointed out some good points but in the
Talon's post there were no points. While some of the views of the
first person are obiviously biased (The calling of playstation and
Saturn owners fools for example.) he at least gave some facts and
points.
Woody Jin
In article <19970712164...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, pmret...@aol.com (PMRET4LIFE) wrote:
> ...
>but take a look at your own gaming libraries. Third rate crap with a few
>games worth mentioning. Look at your future. I see a semi decent FF7
>which I have played and realized it does not compare to the others in the
>series. Other than that you have NOTHING! You will have two hundred
>games come out and 3 might be good. We have Zelda 64, Goldeneye, Turok 2,
>Tonic Trouble, Mission Impossible, Banjo Kazooie(damn I hate that name),
>the possible ninja based resident evil, F-Zero 64, and a modem for the
This is the same feeling that I have.
With open mind, I watched a friend of mine plaing Tekken 2 in his PSX.
He is a Tekken master (according to him :) ).
He feels that the motion is a little bit awkward, and not smooth.
To me first of all, it looked ugly because fighters looked like
building blocks. The game play is actually better than how
it looked, but still there are many missing frames. As a result, it looked
like 16 bit game where the fighter's foot is suddenly from ground to
the opponent's head (and nothing can be seen in between).
This may be OK who get used to PSX games, but extremely annoying
to N64 gamers who are quite accustomed to awesome 3D graphics
and smooth motion (admittedly there are N64 games which don't
have smooth motion).
The only time, the motion looked smooth was when it shows the
slow motion (obviously :) ).
It may be simply OK, just to kill time, but still PSX never impresses
me. Whenever PSX gamers say "awesome graphics", I
look at the game. OK Awesome graphic only for FMV, but
what about in actual game ? There are some "xxxx Blades"
games, which also shows good FMV, but then in actual game,
I say, "What the heck is this !!! ???".
Without feeling almost real and smooth, it won't be a good game,
especially these days.
--
Woody Jin
PMRET4LIFE
Wolf, you make a good point. He could have said something intelligent
like N64 has space limitations and too few games. Final Fantasy is easy
to aquire and play with a modified playstation, and for you people
wondering, NO it is not a boot leg copy. My friend does that and out of
the 70 games he has he usually only WANTS to play the same 3 games over
and over, seeing how the rest just don't cut it as playable games. Sony
wastes all its extra space on FMV and Turok didn't come out for
playstation but cause the programers couldn't find a way to make it half
way decent. Thats why they put quack mode in the 64 version, to see what
a playstation version would look like. Out of the 700 sony games, look
how many of the games are really good, maybe 9/700 of them are great, but
then look at 64. Its top games blow sony away. Sure, it put some crap
out, but thats what happens during the first wave of games. Now companys
are starting to see how the hardware works and can start putting nothing
out but quality games, and any average games would be much better than
more than 85% of sony's games.
Ralph Schwarten
Sorry, but until the N64 gets a decent fighter, Tekken 2 on PSX and VF2
on Saturn Make N64 fighters look *very* 16 bit !!!
This is a sad state of affairs for the N64 at present.
Cheers,
Ralph
Ralph Schwarten
In fact, I am yet to see evidence that the N64 could do a fighting game
to the quality of Vf2... 704 x 640 res at 60 FPS, Incredibly detailed
characters. What has the N64 got ? War gods (yuk) MKT (yuk) Dark rift
this game is ver sad IMHO, those backgrounds a very reminiscent of the
16 bit era.
don't get me wrong, I own N64, pSX and Saturn. The N64 is the system I
now play most often thanks to WR64, SF64, MK64, SM64 etc. But i would
be seriously embarrassed to let some of my PSX devout friends see any of
the N64 Fighters. It makes you wonder if the N64 is the huge
generational leap of the 32 bit systems that it was hyped to be !!!
Woody Jin
>don't get me wrong, I own N64, pSX and Saturn. The N64 is the system I
>now play most often thanks to WR64, SF64, MK64, SM64 etc. But i would
>be seriously embarrassed to let some of my PSX devout friends see any of
>the N64 Fighters. It makes you wonder if the N64 is the huge
>generational leap of the 32 bit systems that it was hyped to be !!!
It is the huge generational leap. The possibility is enourmous.
About the argument of the lack of software, it is all the business tactics.
For example, namco is the enemy of Nintendo. Namco will not publish N64 games
(until it really needs money from N64 owners).
But eventually good software will be available for N64 soon. At least much
before the next generation of PSX or Saturn come out.
--
Woody Jin
Dave Reid
But Namco is making games for the N64. Their making Tales of
Phantasia 64 and a baseball game.
--
|---------------------------------------------------------------------|
|| Dave Reid | Go to the Video Gamers SIG on ||
|| wt...@freenet.victoria.bc.ca | Victoria Free-Net. GO VIDGAME ||
|---------------------------------------------------------------------|
Woody Jin
>>About the argument of the lack of software, it is all the business tactics.
>>For example, namco is the enemy of Nintendo. Namco will not publish N64 games
>>(until it really needs money from N64 owners).
>>But eventually good software will be available for N64 soon. At least much
>>before the next generation of PSX or Saturn come out.
>>
> But Namco is making games for the N64. Their making Tales of
>Phantasia 64 and a baseball game.
That's a news to me. Do you have more detailed news (or source of the
news) ? When I contacted a Namco representative, he said that Namco
will not make N64 games because of the cost of cartridge and they don't
think that it is right to charge their customers $80 per game.
I consider it just as an excuse. Actually Nintendo lowered the
cartridge cost and there is also N64DD.
Namco had so much frustration with Nintendo, I don't think that Namco
would ask, "Sir Nintendo, could you please produce carts for us ?". since
they can do business without Nintendo (i.e. with Sony).
If Yamauchi kneel down to Namco and ask Namco by treating Namco
as special Licencee, there can be a change.
But I don't think that it will happen as far as Yamauchi remains as Nintendo
CEO.
Woody Jin
Myau
Hate to do this, buut... I beg to differ.
Though what Nintendo is doing with the N64 is great, and I am a proud
owner, IMHO, the mighty N64 has its flaws which I just can't let slip
by. Namely, memory limitations. I still can't understand why Nintendo
would think immediate loading time in a cartridge is so much better than
a CD format. Its like Nintendo tihnks that gamers are that stoopid.
Well, I'd say they aren't. Gamers know they'll be saving cash overall if
Nintendo had just put a fast CD Rom drive (12x or 16x would be good) and
bumped up the price just a bit (Look at the PSX's sales figures for the
first few months, it was 400 bucks!) than to have a whole line of
expensive cartridge games. And with all the hype Nintendo is capable of
creating (See the N64 sales figures =-p) It would still be bound to
seel. Now, I don't know that much about the 64DD as far as how much it
can do compared to CD Format, but if it is up to par great, there's the
solution. But take Mega Man 8 for example. I've heard a lot of people
whine about how it should be on the N64, and that the upcoming Mega Man
X4 (Which originally was going to be a Saturn-only release, but now
seems to be a Saturn and PSX game) should be an upcoming N64 game, and
of course many Mega Man fans say that Mega Man Neo should be an N64
game. Well from what I've seen of the Mega Man Neo pics it looks like a
gigantic game, one that couldn't be possibly done on a cartridge, just
like Final Fantasy 7. Come on people, Final Fantasy 7 is a 3 cd game!
There's no way Square could have fit it on a cartridge =-p! And if
you've played Mega Man 8, imagine it without the FMV cut scenes. Does it
seem a little "bland"? Speaking of Mega Man, in the June NP Mega Man
Boss article, at the end it says the Nintendo Power will keep readers
informed if there are any new developments for the Blue Bomber. After I
stopped laughing, I wondered how Nintendo got off tihnking that Mega Man
was a Nintendo only series. I don't buy that they didn't know Mega Man 8
was already out on the Saturn and PSX, and Mega Man X4 was being
developed for the same, and Mega Man Neo was coming for the PSX. Its
like Nintendo expects Capcom to still have Mega Man a
Nintendo-system-only series. (I could go inno the whole Nintendo wants
everyone to be devoted to them speech but I've made this post long
enough haven't I) Flame me if you will, and I'm not saying the N64 isn't
a grand system with great games (It is) but I think people need to
realize some of these limitations.
--
I wonder what the people will see in the finl days?
Darien Allen
On Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:59:36 GMT, wj...@cs.uh.edu (Woody Jin) wrote:
>In article <33CADD...@eas.gu.edu.au>, R.Sch...@eas.gu.edu.au wrote:
>
>>don't get me wrong, I own N64, pSX and Saturn. The N64 is the system I
>>now play most often thanks to WR64, SF64, MK64, SM64 etc. But i would
>>be seriously embarrassed to let some of my PSX devout friends see any of
>>the N64 Fighters. It makes you wonder if the N64 is the huge
>>generational leap of the 32 bit systems that it was hyped to be !!!
>
>It is the huge generational leap. The possibility is enourmous.
>About the argument of the lack of software, it is all the business tactics.
>For example, namco is the enemy of Nintendo. Namco will not publish N64 games
>(until it really needs money from N64 owners).
>But eventually good software will be available for N64 soon. At least much
>before the next generation of PSX or Saturn come out.
Un huh, so how come there's an overseas baseball game coming from
Namco to the N64, while sales of all of it's playstation games
continue to be high?
[Newsgroups.....absolutely, positively,]
[the quickest way....to spread misinformation!]
[DarienAllen AT IBM.net]
...remove nospam to reply....
Woody Jin
In article <5qirr8$63r$1...@Masala.CC.UH.EDU>, wj...@cs.uh.edu (Woody Jin) wrote:
> ...
>If Yamauchi kneel down to Namco and ask Namco by treating Namco
>as special Licencee, there can be a change.
>But I don't think that it will happen as far as Yamauchi remains as Nintendo
>CEO.
Obviously, I was wrong.
According to http://www.n64.com
Namco makes some baseball game (Famistar ?) which will be available
only in Japan. The game will be innovative because of the N64's
controller, and it will use polygons for all players in the screen.
I don't know what Namco (Nakamura) has in mind and what is going
on b/w Yamauchi and Nakamura, but very strange... I guess that nothing
is static in this game business world.
Maybe Tekken 3 is also coming to N64 as a rumor says ?
(I never believed it though).
--
Woody Jin
ItsaMePete
>Hate to do this, buut... I beg to differ.
>Though what Nintendo is doing with the N64 is great, and I am a proud
>owner, IMHO, the mighty N64 has its flaws which I just can't let slip
>by. Namely, memory limitations. I still can't understand why Nintendo
What memory limitations? There are none. Can't you see? There is no
*need* for a 650MB game. Only a want. We were perfectly happy with the
size carts gave us, and then suddenly, you "need" more space. Why? Do
you need eye-candy so badly? The N64's got it's share of that.
>would think immediate loading time in a cartridge is so much better than
>a CD format. Its like Nintendo tihnks that gamers are that stoopid.
It's not better than a CD format, but CD loading times. Unless the CD
programmers WORK to make the game, which lets them get around loading
times. But the same can be done for N64 games. The programmers can WORK
to make a good game. They did with FF3. And the gamers are that
"stoopid". Do you remember what the media had to say about it? "CD's
suck they take an hour to load, Carts are good, they are instantaneous!"
That's not entirely true, but they said things like that, and people did
believe it.
>Well, I'd say they aren't. Gamers know they'll be saving cash overall if
>Nintendo had just put a fast CD Rom drive (12x or 16x would be good) and
>bumped up the price just a bit (Look at the PSX's sales figures for the
>first few months, it was 400 bucks!) than to have a whole line of
>expensive cartridge games. And with all the hype Nintendo is capable of
>creating (See the N64 sales figures =-p) It would still be bound to
>seel. Now, I don't know that much about the 64DD as far as how much it
Hmm...maybe, but why would Nintendo do that?
>can do compared to CD Format, but if it is up to par great, there's the
And just what is par?
>solution. But take Mega Man 8 for example. I've heard a lot of people
>whine about how it should be on the N64, and that the upcoming Mega Man
>X4 (Which originally was going to be a Saturn-only release, but now
>seems to be a Saturn and PSX game) should be an upcoming N64 game, and
>of course many Mega Man fans say that Mega Man Neo should be an N64
>game. Well from what I've seen of the Mega Man Neo pics it looks like a
>gigantic game, one that couldn't be possibly done on a cartridge, just
>like Final Fantasy 7. Come on people, Final Fantasy 7 is a 3 cd game!
Um...
>There's no way Square could have fit it on a cartridge =-p! And if
The CD's were full of art, not the game. Or that's what I've been led to
believe. Art includes FMV, of course. They probably could have fit it on
a cart, but it would have been *very* expensive. For Square and the
consumer.
>you've played Mega Man 8, imagine it without the FMV cut scenes. Does it
>seem a little "bland"? Speaking of Mega Man, in the June NP Mega Man
Now, that's a bad thing. Very bad. The game sucks without eye-candy?
>Boss article, at the end it says the Nintendo Power will keep readers
>informed if there are any new developments for the Blue Bomber. After I
>stopped laughing, I wondered how Nintendo got off tihnking that Mega Man
>was a Nintendo only series. I don't buy that they didn't know Mega Man 8
Um...where did you get that idea? Did they say that? I didn't read it.
Nowhere does it say: "The Mega Man series is only for Nintendo and we'll
keep you informed on any new developments for the Blue Bomber." BTW, I
never fully understood why MM was called the Blue Bomber. He doesn't bomb
anything, he blasts it.
>was already out on the Saturn and PSX, and Mega Man X4 was being
>developed for the same, and Mega Man Neo was coming for the PSX. Its
>like Nintendo expects Capcom to still have Mega Man a
>Nintendo-system-only series. (I could go inno the whole Nintendo wants
>everyone to be devoted to them speech but I've made this post long
>enough haven't I) Flame me if you will, and I'm not saying the N64 isn't
>a grand system with great games (It is) but I think people need to
>realize some of these limitations.
There are limitations, true, but they are nothing good programmers can get
around.
Pete
Imitation of invention is alright as long as there is Innovation.
The first man to raise a fist was the first to run out of ideas - Dirk Drainhead
The same can be said for insults and swearing.
Darin Avery
ItsaMePete wrote:
>
> In article <33CD87...@usit.net>, Myau <rfd...@usit.net> writes:
>
> >Hate to do this, buut... I beg to differ.
> >Though what Nintendo is doing with the N64 is great, and I am a proud
> >owner, IMHO, the mighty N64 has its flaws which I just can't let slip
> >by. Namely, memory limitations. I still can't understand why Nintendo
>
> What memory limitations? There are none. Can't you see? There is no
> *need* for a 650MB game. Only a want. We were perfectly happy with the
> size carts gave us, and then suddenly, you "need" more space. Why? Do
> you need eye-candy so badly? The N64's got it's share of that.
Well, just listen to the soundtracks on Cruisin' USA(repeating) and Star
Wars.
> There are limitations, true, but they are nothing good programmers can get
> around.
>
Sorry i have to disagree with that. Software can only do so much
without good hardware.
With CD's there will always be loading times, and with carts there will
always be a space limitation.
ItsaMePete
In article <33CE42...@bright.net>, Darin Avery <lav...@bright.net>
writes:
>
>ItsaMePete wrote:
>>
>> In article <33CD87...@usit.net>, Myau <rfd...@usit.net> writes:
>>
>> >Hate to do this, buut... I beg to differ.
>> >Though what Nintendo is doing with the N64 is great, and I am a proud
>> >owner, IMHO, the mighty N64 has its flaws which I just can't let slip
>> >by. Namely, memory limitations. I still can't understand why Nintendo
>>
>> What memory limitations? There are none. Can't you see? There is no
>> *need* for a 650MB game. Only a want. We were perfectly happy with
the
>> size carts gave us, and then suddenly, you "need" more space. Why? Do
>> you need eye-candy so badly? The N64's got it's share of that.
>
>Well, just listen to the soundtracks on Cruisin' USA(repeating) and Star
>Wars.
OK, there are limits to the MIDI capabilities, but they're not that bad.
YOu are giving examples of the two earlier games for the N64.
>> There are limitations, true, but they are nothing good programmers can
get
>> around.
>>
>
>Sorry i have to disagree with that. Software can only do so much
>without good hardware.
>With CD's there will always be loading times, and with carts there will
>always be a space limitation.
Wrong. CD's don't have to have loading times, and carts have plenty of
space for a great game. The only thing that stands in the way of
programmers making great games is the cost.
Myau
> > There are limitations, true, but they are nothing good programmers can get
> > around.
> >
>
> Sorry i have to disagree with that. Software can only do so much
> without good hardware.
> With CD's there will always be loading times, and with carts there will
> always be a space limitation.
Now, I never said you couldn't make a good game without a lot of good
hardware, innovation is always great! But to make a great game nowadays
there has to be something or another to keep you interested in the game
, like nice effects and such (Though I think the story in Chrono Trigger
just wasn't incredible compared to Square's other masterpieces, the
theme, especially the characters more specifically, and the music are
what got me hooked! for a while at least... then it seemed pretty
boring, though I still love the the music, especially Magus's Theme) As
for the loading time thing, I'd much rather wait for a totally excellent
gaming experience than just go through a game fast as lightening. Games
are supposed to have enough value to make you not want to get impatient,
finish it, then go buy another one (Though thats probaly what Nintendo
is aiming for =-p) You should really enjoy a game, not play it out in an
hour or so.
--
I wonder what the people will see in the final days?
Woody Jin
>Sorry i have to disagree with that. Software can only do so much
>without good hardware.
Exactly.
This is why I decided to buy N64 after having seen what the best of
PSX can do. It is too limited for modern, realistic gaming,
even though it is good enough for traditional mediocre gaming.
>With CD's there will always be loading times, and with carts there will
>always be a space limitation.
Depending on your gaming definition, CDs have space limitation too.
Most N64 gamers don't consider FMV as a essential part.
This is why Nintendo thought that the cart is enough.
I am sure that N64DD should be more than enough.
Consider what many gamers do. Don't they press "quit", "skip", "start",..
etc. buttons so fast to go the next level or to repeat the level ?
The novices who watch them playing are wondering, "Gees, what
is going on ?", since the expert gamers change the screen so fast
by pressing buttons to go to the next level or to repeat the level.
Are there any gamers who would watch same FMV all the time in between ?
If so, I would be very surprised and I am sure that they deserve PSX ! :)
--
Woody Jin
Troy Davis
Namco is not talking about any other developments besides their baseball
game,but who knows what will be unleashed at Shoshinkai.
ItsaMePete
In article <5qmqc4$sub$1...@Masala.CC.UH.EDU>, wj...@cs.uh.edu (Woody Jin)
writes:
>Depending on your gaming definition, CDs have space limitation too.
>Most N64 gamers don't consider FMV as a essential part.
>This is why Nintendo thought that the cart is enough.
>I am sure that N64DD should be more than enough.
>Consider what many gamers do. Don't they press "quit", "skip",
"start",..
>etc. buttons so fast to go the next level or to repeat the level ?
>The novices who watch them playing are wondering, "Gees, what
>is going on ?", since the expert gamers change the screen so fast
>by pressing buttons to go to the next level or to repeat the level.
>Are there any gamers who would watch same FMV all the time in between ?
>If so, I would be very surprised and I am sure that they deserve PSX !
:)
This is good sense. FMV is great! Once. Or even 5 times, but after
that, it's boring, and there should be a way to skip it. Like Woody said,
who would sit in front of their TV and watch the FMV every single time it
was played?
Colliding SYmphonies
Woody Jin wrote:
> In article <33CADD...@eas.gu.edu.au>, R.Sch...@eas.gu.edu.au
> wrote:
>
> >don't get me wrong, I own N64, pSX and Saturn. The N64 is the system
> I
> >now play most often thanks to WR64, SF64, MK64, SM64 etc. But i
> would
> >be seriously embarrassed to let some of my PSX devout friends see any
> of
> >the N64 Fighters. It makes you wonder if the N64 is the huge
> >generational leap of the 32 bit systems that it was hyped to be !!!
>
> It is the huge generational leap. The possibility is enourmous.
> About the argument of the lack of software, it is all the business
> tactics.
> For example, namco is the enemy of Nintendo. Namco will not publish
> N64 games
> (until it really needs money from N64 owners).
> But eventually good software will be available for N64 soon. At least
> much
> before the next generation of PSX or Saturn come out.
>
Um, they've been talking to eachother about clearing up their nasty
legal dispute for months now. To even sweeten the deal may be Tekken 3.
. .at a cheaper chip volume purchase.
> --
> Woody Jin
Kaziganthi
> Hate to do this, buut... I beg to differ.
> Though what Nintendo is doing with the N64 is great, and I am a proud
> owner, IMHO, the mighty N64 has its flaws which I just can't let slip
> by. Namely, memory limitations. I still can't understand why Nintendo
> would think immediate loading time in a cartridge is so much better than
> a CD format. Its like Nintendo tihnks that gamers are that stoopid.
> Well, I'd say they aren't. Gamers know they'll be saving cash overall if
> Nintendo had just put a fast CD Rom drive (12x or 16x would be good) and
> bumped up the price just a bit (Look at the PSX's sales figures for the
> first few months, it was 400 bucks!) than to have a whole line of
> expensive cartridge games. And with all the hype Nintendo is capable of
> creating (See the N64 sales figures =-p) It would still be bound to
> seel. Now, I don't know that much about the 64DD as far as how much it
> can do compared to CD Format, but if it is up to par great, there's the
> solution. But take Mega Man 8 for example. I've heard a lot of people
> whine about how it should be on the N64, and that the upcoming Mega Man
> X4 (Which originally was going to be a Saturn-only release, but now
> seems to be a Saturn and PSX game) should be an upcoming N64 game, and
> of course many Mega Man fans say that Mega Man Neo should be an N64
> game. Well from what I've seen of the Mega Man Neo pics it looks like a
> gigantic game, one that couldn't be possibly done on a cartridge, just
> like Final Fantasy 7. Come on people, Final Fantasy 7 is a 3 cd game!
> There's no way Square could have fit it on a cartridge =-p! And if
> you've played Mega Man 8, imagine it without the FMV cut scenes. Does it
> seem a little "bland"? Speaking of Mega Man, in the June NP Mega Man
> Boss article, at the end it says the Nintendo Power will keep readers
> informed if there are any new developments for the Blue Bomber. After I
> stopped laughing, I wondered how Nintendo got off tihnking that Mega Man
> was a Nintendo only series. I don't buy that they didn't know Mega Man 8
> was already out on the Saturn and PSX, and Mega Man X4 was being
> developed for the same, and Mega Man Neo was coming for the PSX. Its
> like Nintendo expects Capcom to still have Mega Man a
> Nintendo-system-only series. (I could go inno the whole Nintendo wants
> everyone to be devoted to them speech but I've made this post long
> enough haven't I) Flame me if you will, and I'm not saying the N64 isn't
> a grand system with great games (It is) but I think people need to
> realize some of these limitations.
>
> --
> I wonder what the people will see in the finl days?
>
> <http://www.geocities.com/~myau>
Sorry to do all that quoting but... I beg to differ. If you go to the
Unofficial N64 Hq (something like <http://www.n64hq.com> Run a search for
it if that doesn't work) and find the reader editorials section, it
explains how FF7 could be done on the N64 without castrating it. His major
points were-
*Lose the FMV. On-the-fly cinema scenes take up tiny amounts of space and
are malleable. (elements can be substituted as needed)
*Pre-rendered backgrounds (another space hogger) could be converted into
some type of text file (read the editorial for details) the guy also said
that he & his friends had rigged a paint program to save these ultra small
text files in Windows
*After that, all they need to do is port the code to 64 bit and that's that.
He had some other space saving ideas, but I don't remember them...
His main point was just that Square, while they make incredible games are
the laziest pricks on the face of the earth as far as system to system (or
even country to country) ports go.
-Kaziganthi *^_^*
Joe Ottoson
In article <renner-1907...@ppp027-lardtx.icsi.net>,
ren...@icsi.net (Kaziganthi) wrote:
> Sorry to do all that quoting but... I beg to differ. If you go to the
> Unofficial N64 Hq (something like <http://www.n64hq.com> Run a search for
> it if that doesn't work) and find the reader editorials section, it
> explains how FF7 could be done on the N64 without castrating it.
Sorry, but anyone on N64 HQ knows about as much about N64 programming as
99% of the world's population (in other words, they're blowing smoke most
of the times)
His major
> points were-
> *Lose the FMV. On-the-fly cinema scenes take up tiny amounts of space and
> are malleable.
It's not that simple. The backgrounds would hade to be rendered in the
cinemas too, and that would certainly up the texture requirements (unless
you wanted to castrate it)
> *Pre-rendered backgrounds (another space hogger) could be converted into
> some type of text file
That makes even less sense. JPEG files can be opened by text readers and
you'll just see a bunch or random gibberish. They're still the same size,
and the more you compress something the more you lose in terms of image
quality.
> *After that, all they need to do is port the code to 64 bit and that's that.
That certainly won't shrink the code...
> He had some other space saving ideas, but I don't remember them...
> His main point was just that Square, while they make incredible games are
> the laziest pricks on the face of the earth as far as system to system (or
> even country to country) ports go.
>
That only makes sense. These are the same people that claimed that only
the N64 can offer realtime 3d graphics (snicker)
Complacency only engenders decay...
Marky J
--WebTV-Mail-1644321971-8
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
>CDs will always have loading times, and Carts will always have memory
limitations
Carts have a lot less memory than CDs, but does that mean they're gonna
spend 5 years to fill up the space on a CD? Fuck no. They make the same
game as they would on N64. The only thing that makes CDs have some much
data is Full motion video. (a small advantage of the PSX)
Now, CDs might have loading times, but it's not so bad. I mean just
think, when you're reading in this group, you have to load the posts,
don't you? You had to load THIS, didn't you? (although some of you may
be wishing you hadn't) The fact is if we can get through endless hours
on the internet, we can get through a few secs every now and then of
loading for CD-roms. Let me say I have a N64, but am hoping they bring
some games from PSX to the 64, like tekken 3, resident evil, tomb
raider, and other nice games. Bye!
--WebTV-Mail-1644321971-8
Content-Description: signature
Content-Type: TEXT/HTML; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
<html><body><font color=aqua>
~~~~~~~~~~~Mark Jansen~~~~~~~~~~~
<br>
~~~~~~~~~~~~Kool stuff~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<br>
~~~~~~And his web site rules too!~~~~~~
<br>
</font></body></html>
--WebTV-Mail-1644321971-8--
ba...@lafn.org
Kaziganthi said:
>find the reader editorials section, it
> explains how FF7 could be done on the N64 without castrating it.
When will people finally realise FF7 cannot be done on the N64 and
retain its integrity. I have a great deal of respect for Nintendo
(because of the SFC), but the N64 has disappoint me along with thousands
of Japanese gamers. For us, the PSX & Saturn are the RPG kings.
> His major points were-
> *Lose the FMV. On-the-fly cinema scenes take up tiny amounts of space and
> are malleable. (elements can be substituted as needed)
Realtime cinemas can be effective if done correctly (like in SF64). They
are still no match for SGI rendered FMV though. FF7 relies on the
detailed FMV to immerse the player and further the story. The player
feels like a part of the imaginary realm. Am I rambling? Back to the
point: Realtime is good and can be almost as good as FMV while taking up
far less space.
> *Pre-rendered backgrounds (another space hogger) could be converted into
> some type of text file (read the editorial for details) the guy also said
> that he & his friends had rigged a paint program to save these ultra small
> text files in Windows
> *After that, all they need to do is port the code to 64 bit and that's that.
> He had some other space saving ideas, but I don't remember them...
His space-saving ideas simply make no sense. I'm a programmer myself and
I still can't quite figure out how using text to draw each individual
pixel saves any space over color tables and RGB values. Drawing by text
would seem to take up MORE space than using JPEG (lossy compression).
The backgrounds in FF7 are in JPEG format and decompresses using the PSX
MDEC engine. They are compressed by a factor of up to 20:1. The author
of the mentioned editorial states that the 10,000 640x480 8-bit (256
color) JPEGs in FF7 take up 300MB of space. He fails to mention that
this is 300MB of JPEG compressed space. 10K 640x480x8-bit images would
take up 3GB of space uncompressed. To fit this into a 16MB (128-megabit)
cart would require compression ratios in excess of 180:1. If he was such
a genius and was capable of such a ratio, why hasn't sold the technology
to any outside party and make millions? If his ratio were true, a single
640x480x8 image would take up only 1.6KB. Ludicrous! Work with DVD and
MPEG-2 video every day and I'd love to use his "space-saving"
techniques. Using his supposed "technology", I'd be able to stream
640x480 24-bit (16,777,216 color) 30fps video through a single speed
(150KB/sec.) CD-ROM drive! I'd be able to fit 9.1 hours of video on a
4.7GB DVD disc (which is only supposed to hold 133 minutes using
MPEG-2). Using his ratio would make the image look like some kind of
pixel soup. Sure the backgrounds would still be 640x480, you just
wouldn't be able to see anything because the lossly compression
threshold to set so high. Conclusion: The author is totally wrong about
fitting FF7 on a cart. It can't be done.
> His main point was just that Square, while they make incredible games are
> the laziest pricks on the face of the earth as far as system to system (or
> even country to country) ports go.
Square's lazy? How can this be? They've promised Sony at least 20 titles
done and they're right on schedule. Tobal no. 1 &2 (released), Bushido
Blade (released), FF7 (released), FF Tactics (released), Einhandler
(misspelled?), Front Mission 2, Front Mission Alternative (released),
Parasite Eve, Digital League, Super Live Stadium, Saga Frontier
(released), Grand Champion's Rally, FF8 (confirmed to be PSX title) and
several others. Many of these (BB, P Eve, Saga F, FF:T,and FF7) are
heading for the U.S. Is Square lazy? If they are, I'd like to see what
they can do when they actually work.
-Kenji Mai a.k.a Nishi#5
ItsaMePete
In article <5qsqg8$6i2$1...@newsd-105.bryant.webtv.net>, MarkJ...@webtv.net
(Marky J) writes:
>>CDs will always have loading times, and Carts will always have memory
>limitations
>Carts have a lot less memory than CDs, but does that mean they're gonna
>spend 5 years to fill up the space on a CD? Fuck no. They make the same
>game as they would on N64. The only thing that makes CDs have some much
>data is Full motion video. (a small advantage of the PSX)
>Now, CDs might have loading times, but it's not so bad. I mean just
>think, when you're reading in this group, you have to load the posts,
>don't you? You had to load THIS, didn't you? (although some of you may
>be wishing you hadn't) The fact is if we can get through endless hours
>on the internet, we can get through a few secs every now and then of
>loading for CD-roms. Let me say I have a N64, but am hoping they bring
>some games from PSX to the 64, like tekken 3, resident evil, tomb
>raider, and other nice games. Bye!
This is kinda my argument. CD's are not bigger games than cart ones, but
have bigger things in them. You can have a perfectly good game on a cart.
You can have a perfectly good game on a CD. But there aren't as many
good games on CD's as carts, IMHO. (note: When I say good, I mean great.
For this post only, void where prohibited)
Miles Bader
vids...@netcom.com (Marty Chinn) writes:
> Yeah, not to mention none of the games on the N64 are coded in 64 bit. All
> games to this date have been coded in 32 bit.
What does this mean?
The N64's processor doesn't have 64-bit *instructions* (and neither does any
other current 64-bit processor), but that means essentially nothing --
instruction encoding space is not an issue for this architecture.
Current games surely do use 64-bit data manipulation however.
-Miles
--
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra. Suddenly it flips over,
pinning you underneath. At night the ice weasels come." --Nietzsche
Marty Chinn
Joe Ottoson (aj...@dim.com) wrote:
: In article <renner-1907...@ppp027-lardtx.icsi.net>,
: ren...@icsi.net (Kaziganthi) wrote:
: > Sorry to do all that quoting but... I beg to differ. If you go to the
: > Unofficial N64 Hq (something like <http://www.n64hq.com> Run a search for
: > it if that doesn't work) and find the reader editorials section, it
: > explains how FF7 could be done on the N64 without castrating it.
: Sorry, but anyone on N64 HQ knows about as much about N64 programming as
: 99% of the world's population (in other words, they're blowing smoke most
: of the times)
Now please give N64HQ the benefit of the doubt here because it was a
"READER" editorial which does not reflect the staff or knowlwedge of
N64HQ, it was a reader. As for N64HQ itself knowing the system and how
its program, maybe not all of us, but some of us do know how things work
on the N64.
: It's not that simple. The backgrounds would hade to be rendered in the
: cinemas too, and that would certainly up the texture requirements (unless
: you wanted to castrate it)
Agreed, and I'd like to note there is just some stuff done in rendered
FMV that there is no other way to convey the emotional response that you
do with how its been done. No real time on the N64 will ever come close
to the detail needed to make the scenes so dramatic.
: That makes even less sense. JPEG files can be opened by text readers and
: you'll just see a bunch or random gibberish. They're still the same size,
: and the more you compress something the more you lose in terms of image
: quality.
Agreed again. This guy who is using this as proof is clueless, and I'm
surprise this reader editorial was put up, cuz its clueless as well.
Square has been doing stuff on the PS that there is no way in hell it
could fit on a cartridge or 64DD. New example, Saga Frontier, completely
fills the cd, and uses almost no FMV except for some FMV clouds.
: > *After that, all they need to do is port the code to 64 bit and that's that.
: That certainly won't shrink the code...
Yeah, not to mention none of the games on the N64 are coded in 64 bit.
All games to this date have been coded in 32 bit.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marty Chinn ** 1997 E3 Plans & Video Pre-Order Info Now Up **
Video Source PlayStation, Nintendo 64, Saturn, Imports
973 Foxglove Dr. M-F: 9:30-6:00, Sa: 10:00-3:00 PST, Sun: Closed
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<408> 720-8576 FAX WWW : http://www.video-source.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Romona & Co.
> >Well, I'd say they aren't. Gamers know they'll be saving cash overall if
> >Nintendo had just put a fast CD Rom drive (12x or 16x would be good) and
> >bumped up the price just a bit (Look at the PSX's sales figures for the
> >first few months, it was 400 bucks!) than to have a whole line of
> >expensive cartridge games.
Bumped up the price a bit? HA! A N64 with a 12x CD-ROM would have made
the 3DO's launch price look cheap. Nintendo's expensive carts are the only
thing that keeps them from losing their ass on the N64. If they weren't
burning carts, the N64 would be WAY out of impulse buying range. BTW, were
was the PSX selling for $400? The MRSP was $299.99. Methinks you were
getting ripped off.
-Freeze
NintendoCow
In article <vidsourcE...@netcom.com>, vids...@netcom.com (Marty Chinn)
wrote:
>Miles Bader (mi...@gnu.ai.mit.edu) wrote:
>: vids...@netcom.com (Marty Chinn) writes:
>: > Yeah, not to mention none of the games on the N64 are coded in 64 bit.
All
>: > games to this date have been coded in 32 bit.
>
>: What does this mean?
>
>: The N64's processor doesn't have 64-bit *instructions* (and neither does any
>: other current 64-bit processor), but that means essentially nothing --
>: instruction encoding space is not an issue for this architecture.
>
>: Current games surely do use 64-bit data manipulation however.
>
>Current games are being programmed using the N64's CPU 32 bit mode. The
>reason is so they have more data registers to work with.
Not only the current games, but also the future games will be run in 32 bit
mode. The main reason is that no games (as a matter of fact, no programs
in general) are big enough to go over 32 bit addressing (which spans 4 Gig
bytes of memory).
If you use 64 bit mode, all the address should be 64 bit, which is a great
overhead. You simply waste lots of memory. For example, an address
12345678 (hex) should have been enough in 32 bit mode. In 64 bit mode
you should use 0000000012345678 (hex) all the time. All the memory and
registers to store 00000000 are simply a waste.
Then why use 64 bit processor ?
It is designed to process in 64 bit chunks. It has 64 bit registers, and
64 bit data path. If you use 32 bit mode then your have twice the number
of registers ( R4300 contains sixty four 64 bit general registers. Now
you have one hundred twenty eight 32 bit general registers.)
Having lots of registers is an enourmous performance gain.
64 bit data paths can be exploited for faster movement of data
(internally AND externally). This affects performance greatly too.
For example, 64 bit CPUs have a bus twice wide from CPU to memory than
32 bit CPU.
That is, by using 64 bit processor, you are *almost* doubling the
performance than 32 bit processor. In addition, PSX uses 32bit version
of N64's R4300 (, which is R3000) which runs only at 33MHz.
N64's R4300 runs at 93Mhz (almost 3 times faster). Not only that,
the instruction cache, data cache, ...etc. are four times bigger
(16K instruction cache in R4300 comparing 4K instruction cache in R3000).
And the size of the cache is very important in performance.
With addition to the graphic processor, N64 has impressive processing
power.
It all depends on the developers how they can maximally use
the processing power. When you have enough power, it is very easy
to get lazy. One example is CUSA which can be also achieved in
Intel 486 CPU by ditching every clock cycle to be usable.
As developers understand this 3rd generation of MIPS CPU
(R4xxxx), I expect that they can produce better games.
2nd generation MIPS CPUs (R3xxxx) have been well-understood
through various other gaming machines and lots of Unix workstations
for last several years.
Now, it is time for the 3rd generation MIPS CPUs.
--
NintendoCow
Max C. Strini
> Sorry to do all that quoting but... I beg to differ. If you go to the
> Unofficial N64 Hq (something like <http://www.n64hq.com> Run a search for
> it if that doesn't work) and find the reader editorials section, it
> explains how FF7 could be done on the N64 without castrating it. His major
> points were-
<snip>
Note that this 'editorial' was written before
FF7 was even *finished.*
-dar5.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
David McClure
Still, an N64 with a CD-ROM would have been the ULTIMATE console. As it
is at the moment, it's an incredible piece of hardware, but with games
that are too expensive, and there's not enough of them. The 64DD might
improve things a little, but if only Nintendo had decided to go with
CDs... [I think I'll daydream now...]
\..-.
. |/,--``- David McClure
.^ -|( dmcc...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au
--=<=8>/////////( )X\\>O)############===============------------
`v -|( http://www.uwa.edu.au/student/dmcclure/
' |\'--..-
/''-`
NintendoCow
>Still, an N64 with a CD-ROM would have been the ULTIMATE console. As it
>is at the moment, it's an incredible piece of hardware, but with games
>that are too expensive, and there's not enough of them. The 64DD might
>improve things a little, but if only Nintendo had decided to go with
>CDs... [I think I'll daydream now...]
I don't think that Nintendo will ever use CDs.
However, I expect that around the time when Sony announce PSX-2
around the year of 2000, Nintendo will announce 64DVD which will
sit under 64DD, which will also have more main memory and some
other additional functionalities which will try to kill PSX-2.
--
NintendoCow
Miles Bader
vids...@netcom.com (Marty Chinn) writes:
> : The N64's processor doesn't have 64-bit *instructions* (and neither does
> :any other current 64-bit processor), but that means essentially nothing --
> :instruction encoding space is not an issue for this architecture.
>
> : Current games surely do use 64-bit data manipulation however.
>
> Current games are being programmed using the N64's CPU 32 bit mode. The
> reason is so they have more data registers to work with.
There aren't more registers in 32 bit mode (the instruction architecture
offers no way of using them), so that wouldn't make any sense.
steel...@gmail.com
> Wolf, you make a good point. He could have said something intelligent
> like N64 has space limitations and too few games. Final Fantasy is easy
> to aquire and play with a modified playstation, and for you people
> wondering, NO it is not a boot leg copy. My friend does that and out of
> the 70 games he has he usually only WANTS to play the same 3 games over
> and over, seeing how the rest just don't cut it as playable games. Sony
> wastes all its extra space on FMV and Turok didn't come out for
> playstation but cause the programers couldn't find a way to make it half
> way decent. Thats why they put quack mode in the 64 version, to see what
> a playstation version would look like. Out of the 700 sony games, look
> how many of the games are really good, maybe 9/700 of them are great, but
> then look at 64. Its top games blow sony away. Sure, it put some crap
> out, but thats what happens during the first wave of games. Now companys
> are starting to see how the hardware works and can start putting nothing
> out but quality games, and any average games would be much better than
> more than 85% of sony's games.
Hi, I hail from the future. I agree.
patrickl...@gmail.com
>
> What memory limitations? There are none. Can't you see? There is no
> *need* for a 650MB game. Only a want. We were perfectly happy with the
> size carts gave us, and then suddenly, you "need" more space. Why? Do
> you need eye-candy so badly? The N64's got it's share of that.
I think they could if they wanted to, but probably be way too expensive to create much higher capacity cartridge. CDs were cheaper to make.
Cory Hansen
> On Thursday, July 17, 1997 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, ItsaMePete wrote:
> >
> > What memory limitations? There are none. Can't you see? There is no
> > *need* for a 650MB game. Only a want. We were perfectly happy with the
> > size carts gave us, and then suddenly, you "need" more space. Why? Do
> > you need eye-candy so badly? The N64's got it's share of that.
>
> The funny thing is that 3DS cartridges can hold much more data than CD! I wonder why it wasn't possible to fit 650MB game on N64 cartridge.
>
> I think they could if they wanted to, but probably be way too expensive to create much higher capacity cartridge. CDs were cheaper to make.
Fobius
I do not wish to offend. I am well aware that many people had a great time with their N64s and I neither can nor want to take that away from you. Game on forever!