Paying top dollar for NOS Asteroids Cardboard bezel
Azarcadegames
I have NOS side art but need the bezel
If you have an NOS cardboard bezel in perfect shape, I want it and will pay you
quite well for it. Or I have lots of NOS art I could trade
Please email me a pic before we discuss details of a deal.
Thanks
darin
Erik Schneider
http://www.arcadeshop.com/pics/asteroids-cb-bezel.jpg
- Erik
"Azarcadegames" <azarca...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020910233406...@mb-mu.aol.com...
SPW
do a repro of his repro? :-) I hear they're of exceptional quality.
SPW, kanata, on, canada
ps. My point is, spend your time doing something no one has yet done like
MH side art, marquee etc for SD conversion, or tempest ct underlay, or
cheyenne cpo, or
Q*Bert swearing marquee or Q*Bert monitor bezel ...
Azarcadegames <azarca...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020910233406...@mb-mu.aol.com...
Dan Coogan
best,
Dan
SPW wrote:
> Why don't you buy one of Steven Gregory's repros at ArcadeShop and
> do a repro of his repro? :-) I hear they're of exceptional quality.
>
> SPW, kanata, on, canada
>
> ps. My point is, spend your time doing something no one has yet done like
> MH side art, marquee etc for SD conversion, or Tempest ct underlay, or
> Cheyenne cpo, or Q*Bert swearing marquee or Q*Bert monitor bezel ...
>
> Azarcadegames <azarca...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20020910233406...@mb-mu.aol.com...
> > Im seriously looking into repro'ing the cardboard bezel and the side art.
> >
> > I have NOS side art but need the bezel
> >
> > If you have an NOS cardboard bezel in perfect shape, I want it and will
> pay you quite well for it. Or I have lots of NOS art I could trade
> >
> > Please email me a pic before we discuss details of a deal.
> >
> > Thanks
> > darin
--
Dan Coogan
Coogan Photographic / Phoenix, AZ
E-Mail D...@CooganPhoto.com
Web: http://www.CooganPhoto.com
Web: http://www.DanCoogan.com
Represented by Black Inc.
Web: http://www.blackinc.com
"Photography With A Vision"
John Robertson
thing I am not 100% certain of is the colour shades...it looks
slightly faded from what I thought they looked like new, but...it was
23 years ago when it was new, so I might have adjusted the colours in
my head - glasses might be needed here...
John :-#)#
(Please post followups or tech enquires to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
mailto:j...@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
Azarcadegames
available, I know 1 person that tried to order them, so I had no idea they are
now available.
Once he advertised DK bezels NOW AVAILABLE on his site and I tried to order 10
and have them express shipped. He told me he needed a few more days to get them
in. So I turned to Philippe who left work early to FedEx Express me all 10 at
no extra cost! In fact I posted about this when it happened if anyone cares to
check the archives.
As far as comments about repro'ing something that hasnt been done yet, well let
me tell you a story. This has been a long time coming.
I decided I wanted to get into the repro biz and make a few things that I
thought were needed that no one else was making. Before I jumped into this, I
emailed Philippe, Steven and Dave Grohowski (who just started getting into
repros). I told each of them what I wanted to repro and also that I noticed
that they were making the same stuff and killing each other for market share
instead of focusing on new gear. I do believe competiton is healthy, but
everyone doing the same product everytime was a waste of energy.
Anyways I proposed to form some type of alliance where we dont step on each
others toes by reproing the same thing. We tell each other what we are going
into production with and we would agree not to do it. Now I know the fine
details were never hammered out, but it was a start.
However Steven was the only one to say no. Interesting. Before anyone jumps on
me for sounding overly negative with Steven, know this; I have spent at least
10 times more money with Steven than Philippe and have receipts to prove it.
Steven cannot deny this. I have also done good trader posts on Steven.
Steven tried to tell me he had Sinistar cpos in production when I told him that
was my first project. After a little fishing around it turned out this was not
true. He was trying to get me not to do them so he could release the first. He
has done this to 2 other people I know on repros. Stay tuned for a thread on
another project Im doing.
So one day Philippe and I were talking and he made me a proposal to form a
partnership without any restrictions or strings attached, it was something I
couldnt pass up. As soon as Steven found out he refused to sell me art, parts
and games. He didnt even give me the courtesy to respond to any of my emails.
I have always liked Steven and have sent him referrals, even after I partnered
with Philippe. But he has chosen not to deal with me in any regard. So be it.
To answer the question now, well I said I was looking into repro'ing the
carboard bezels, not 100% sure Im going to do them. Afterall, Id like to have a
few for my Asteroids and he wouldnt sell them to me anyhow. And Im not going to
ask anyone to buy them from him and ship to me. Silly grade school stuff.
I dont apologize for the rant because it was time for me to let some of this
out.
I really hope someday this can be worked out, but it doesnt look good at this
point. Especially with him telling a mutual friend that Im an asshole. Even if
I can be at times :)
Regards
darin
David Gotto
This post is a general observation and my opinion. It is not in response to
any specific person, etc. I find it shocking that so much time in the past
few months has been spent questioning the efforts of those that reproduce
quality artwork for our beloved video games. When I first started
collecting games reproduction artwork was not widely (if at all) available.
I, as many people that frequent this newsgroup, had to search high and low
for games in decent cosmetic condition. Now it is not always imperative to
find a game with a clean CPO, marquee, etc. because most likely reproduction
artwork is already available or soon will be. I now have the opportunity to
make most of my games look "minty fresh". I never would have dreamed this
possible 3 or 4 years ago and I don't want it to come to an end because some
people are not grateful or impatient.
In my opinion there is a misconception that projects are being neglected
because certain artwork is being duplicated. If there is a demand (actual
paying customers and not those that say they will order it and never do) for
specific artwork there is a pretty good certainty that it will be made. It
may not be made in the time frame that some would like, but it is better
than it not being produced at all. Besides, just because something has
already been reproduced it doesn't always mean that it was done correctly
the first time or that there isn't room for improvement. This is true in
any industry. Competition is healthy and it helps keep a checks and
balances system in place for the quality of artwork produced. I think what
really hurts the reproduction market are those that reproduce and sell
"inferior" "low-grade" products. When these flood the market it decreases
the possibility of quality artwork being reproduced for the same item. What
is really sad is that there are people out there who don't know that quality
artwork is available and pay good money for an "inferior" product.
We should spend more time thanking people like Darin for putting their
money, time, and effort into producing quality artwork.
Regards,
David
"Azarcadegames" <azarca...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020911033152...@mb-mu.aol.com...
Joey
luck with the project!
"Azarcadegames" <azarca...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020910233406...@mb-mu.aol.com...
Gooch
> partnership without any restrictions or strings attached, it was something I
> couldnt pass up.
I take it the 'without restrictions' part means charging insane
amounts for repros like the Robotron bezels?? C'mon $150 for a bezel?
How is it that Steven can reproduce these and only charge $75? And
don't say because they will be of inferior quality, because we all
know (you included) the excellent quality of the reproductions Steven
makes.
Trying to screw collectors out of their hard earned cash doesn't earn
points here buddy.
Philippe Bourdon
I dare anyone - anyone - to place an order right now and
see how fast he/she can get one. Typical of Arcadeshop. To Advertise
items he does not have, at a much lower cost that the competition, to make
them
look bad. And by the way, if you had a clue, you would know that price is
dictated
by quantity. In the case of the glass bezels, only 30 were ordered, to
satisfy the purist
collectors, hence the price. No one is forcing to buy one.
"Gooch" <ge...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5d773e91.0209...@posting.google.com...
BMMTWINS
> So one day Philippe and I were talking and he made me a proposal to form a>
partnership without any restrictions or strings attached, it was something I>
couldnt pass up.
from ge...@yahoo.com
<<<I take it the 'without restrictions' part means charging insaneamounts for
repros like the Robotron bezels?? C'mon $150 for a bezel? How is it that
Steven can reproduce these and only charge $75? Anddon't say because they will
be of inferior quality, because we allknow (you included) the excellent quality
of the reproductions Stevenmakes.Trying to screw collectors out of their hard
earned cash doesn't earnpoints here>>>
HA HA HA
well first, Darin HAS NOT charged $150 for his bezel, not even close. So if
your going to challenge someone get your facts straight and DO NOT mislead
people of this group.
Second, I see that Steven is "advertising" Robotron and Joust bezels now, AFTER
Darin announced right here his desire to repro these for all of us. HHHHMMM,
makes me curious, what a coincidence. Why no pics on Steven site? Does he have
them? Are they in the process of being produced? OR maybe he is trying to
undercut Darin's project so those without a clue like you will bash Darin's
price. I personally believe Steven is doing hard nosed business. No problem,
its free enterprise. He has a business to run. So lets see proof of the bezels
he has right now! I'd like to buy a couple, my money is out. I mean, after all,
if your gonna advertise bezels for sale on your site, you damn well best have
them. That would be really shitty to all us collectors, teasing us with
products you don't have JUST for the purpose of undercutting the competition.
Like I said, show me the bezels! My money is ready to buy!
Third, how the hell do you know the quality of either bezel? What a horseshit
comment. Have you seen any of these items yet? Let me answer the question for
you, NO! Yes, Steven does have excellent stuff. And so does Darin and Philippe
and a few other small time guys. You are jumping on Darin for no reason. If you
don't like the guy and you praise Steven fine, but don't bring it here without
any supporting facts. We don't need any business shills in here. We all know
both Darin and Steven do great work. I have bought stuff from both and never
felt screwed from either guy. Steven does a great job, he runs a busy, he has
to make money and he should. Darin is trying to bring products that we need,
and he also does a great job and deserves to make something for himself. So who
cares? If you don't like a product or price move on to the next guy. But don't
bash people trying to help the hobby. Plus, its pretty damn obvious these guys
have a little repro business war going on and its finally starting to build.
You might want to open your eyes and get the big picture of whats REALLY going
on before jumping on someone that has made several contributions to this hobby.
What we DON'T need is for one of these guys to go down and stop making new
stuff. So next time, don't butt your nose in here with your spinster banner. If
anyone has to produce info here its Steven. People have already tried to order
Robo and Joust bezels that are "advertised" on his site and guess what, it
appears there is no bezel to ship. To me thats a little disturbing. You say he
has them, well get all of us a picture. Strange OUT OF NOWHERE he is selling
these items AFTER Darin announced these projects. And he has no picture, thats
not like Steven. That just tells me he DEFINATLEY does not have them and
probably doesn't even have the artwork. If I am wrong, then show me proof! Lets
see a picture right now! Lets see if he REALLY is producing these items. I
thinks it a sham to hurt Darin personally. And hey, thats business. Let him and
Darin go at it. But I don't like getting teased with offers of products that
don't exist. At least Darin initiated this project and offered them here. He
has taken pre-orders and is following through with updates. He is trying to
help, and what does he get, crap from someone like you that can't get their
facts straight. Get me proof Steven has them. Then maybe you can pop off. And
Steven, if your reading this, by all means I will continue to buy from you and
Darin. Pack up a glass Robo bezel and Joust bezel and give me a price. I
already ordered one from Darin as well. My support will be given to ALL good
repro guys. Its up to each to run their individual businesses. But do NOT play
games with offers, that BS! Billy Milos
Azarcadegames
First off, on ANY item I sell I can ask whatever I want. The market will tell
me if the price is achievable. Did you bitch when Steven was asking a super
high price for DK side art when it came out? He was in for a shock when
Philippe came along and put out DK side art so much cheaper than Steven was
selling it for.
Now to the Robos, as if you for once had any clue about reality.
Steven sells an underlay that couldnt cost more than $5 to make and his online
price is $40. Now I have bought several of them from him and he knows it, but I
have decided I wanted something better. And before I made a final decision to
repro the bezels I emailed 6 very high profile rgvac'ers for opinions on glass
and/or plexi. Feedback was given and a decision was made to do a small run of
glass and a large run of plexi.
The small run of glass (#30 of which #25 were offered for sale) was to
accomodate the hard core collectors, certainly not for profit motives, I could
have made the cardboard bezel instead and cashed in!
Ill sum it up here for ya.
Bob from 2bit sells (he buys in bulk) his glass bezels for $100 (plus
shipping) all day long. I even bought some from him, including one two weeks
ago. Ok, so on a small run of 30 glass my cost is super high. Heres one way to
check it. Go to your local glass store with the bezel measurements and order 30
tempered glass pieces. Kinda high I bet. Now add more for art recreation and
for the printing itself, then add for the cost to have the glass shipped from
the printer to me.
Based on all that, my margins are very low and I dont care if you believe me or
not. Here is where Steven comes in.
He is jealous (like your money broke ass) and/or he is mad that we are selling
these and he is losing customers from his super high margin'ed cardboard bezel
sales.
So our limited run price is $130 shipped. After the preorder period (Sept 6th)
we chose to up the price to whatever we feel the market will bear. All the
while knowing we have a limited supply of 8 left! So the website price is $150.
Boo, cry all ya want.
Back to Stevens website. He doesnt have a picture and the site says "new" with
pricing next to it. When we have art on the site we either say its available or
its coming at a particular date. I mean, who offers stuff for sale they KNOW
THEY DONT HAVE! We always post bad stuff in here about people like that. The
only way he can sell glass so cheap is to make a large run. Tell me why he has
NEVER done any glass bezels before? Why is he doing Joust at the same time as
us when he knows that I went public 2 weeks ago with my intentions for Joust?
Why does he still have the cardboard bezel at $40 and the plexi for $45?
Ironically he added these items with a low price to stick it to us AFTER the
prepaid period was over and we collected money. So I have to answer his
pricing, and I will. I will take care of all the prepaids, believe me I will.
With the quality issue, hell yes he sells some great stuff, but not all of it
is perfect. Some items have obvious flaws. I wont name all of them, but the
Defender bezel is the worst thing this side of ArcadeGrafix! Only a true side
by side comparison of his and mine will reveal the final result and the
consumer will be the judge and I will still sleep well at night
Let the party begin, because this guy doesnt back down from a shootout!
Care to show me the glass bezels Steven?
darin
Dan Coogan
You are the best.
Now let's get those elephants over that snowy mountain range -- I'd follow you
anywhere.
Dan
Azarcadegames wrote:
--
Dave
it and 1/3 of it is reprinted on a color printer then glued to paperboard
then attached to the almost falling apart bezel. I will admint it looks good
but, not great. I too would like a NOS one and not a repo, if possable.
--
-Dave
Dave 'At" anywherecool "dot' com
AIM: DavidinRI / MSN: ( MyE-mail address)
ICQ: 10640235
IT and small business consulting services
http://Services.anywherecool.com
"Gooch" <ge...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5d773e91.0209...@posting.google.com...
Steven Gregory
azarca...@aol.com says...
> Well the Asteroids cardboard bezels were on his site for weeks and not
> available, I know 1 person that tried to order them, so I had no idea they are
> now available.
You're not a very good liar, just say it you want to copy something that
I have made. Do you want me to post the email about you going to make
Asteroids side art and bezels?
>
> Once he advertised DK bezels NOW AVAILABLE on his site and I tried to order 10
> and have them express shipped. He told me he needed a few more days to get them
> in. So I turned to Philippe who left work early to FedEx Express me all 10 at
> no extra cost! In fact I posted about this when it happened if anyone cares to
> check the archives.
My web page never said "NOW AVAILABLE"
http://web.archive.org/web/20010607203542/www.arcadeshop.com/parts.htm
>
> As far as comments about repro'ing something that hasnt been done yet, well let
> me tell you a story. This has been a long time coming.
>
> I decided I wanted to get into the repro biz and make a few things that I
> thought were needed that no one else was making. Before I jumped into this, I
> emailed Philippe, Steven and Dave Grohowski (who just started getting into
> repros). I told each of them what I wanted to repro and also that I noticed
> that they were making the same stuff and killing each other for market share
> instead of focusing on new gear. I do believe competiton is healthy, but
> everyone doing the same product everytime was a waste of energy.
> Anyways I proposed to form some type of alliance where we dont step on each
> others toes by reproing the same thing. We tell each other what we are going
> into production with and we would agree not to do it. Now I know the fine
> details were never hammered out, but it was a start.
>
> However Steven was the only one to say no. Interesting. Before anyone jumps on
I don't recall saying anything about this.
> me for sounding overly negative with Steven, know this; I have spent at least
> 10 times more money with Steven than Philippe and have receipts to prove it.
> Steven cannot deny this. I have also done good trader posts on Steven.
Yes, you have done some business in the past, but we see here that when
something you want doesn't go your way you start public bashing.
>
> Steven tried to tell me he had Sinistar cpos in production when I told him that
> was my first project. After a little fishing around it turned out this was not
> true. He was trying to get me not to do them so he could release the first. He
> has done this to 2 other people I know on repros. Stay tuned for a thread on
> another project Im doing.
Ah, you mean when you asked me about Sinistar cpos on IRC and I told you
I was going to do them, you then turned to someone else on IRC and said
"Quick, send me your NOS Sinistar CPO. Steven is going to make them".
I'll hold off on posting the name of this person who told me this for
now.
>
> So one day Philippe and I were talking and he made me a proposal to form a
> partnership
> without any restrictions or strings attached, it was something I
> couldnt pass up. As soon as Steven found out he refused to sell me art, parts
> and games. He didnt even give me the courtesy to respond to any of my emails.
>
> I have always liked Steven and have sent him referrals, even after I partnered
> with Philippe. But he has chosen not to deal with me in any regard. So be it.
No, this was after you got REAL nasty with me about a quote I gave you
on a new/restored Ms. Pac-Man. You then continued to say I screwing you
after I corrected the amount.
>
> To answer the question now, well I said I was looking into repro'ing the
> carboard bezels, not 100% sure Im going to do them. Afterall, Id like to have a
> few for my Asteroids and he wouldnt sell them to me anyhow. And Im not going to
> ask anyone to buy them from him and ship to me. Silly grade school stuff.
>
> I dont apologize for the rant because it was time for me to let some of this
> out.
>
> I really hope someday this can be worked out, but it doesnt look good at this
> point. Especially with him telling a mutual friend that Im an asshole. Even if
> I can be at times :)
>
> Regards
> darin
>
>
>
>
>
--
Steven Gregory
www.arcadeshop.com
Steven Gregory
pbou...@portone.com says...
> Steven Gregory does not have any Robotron Bezels.
> I dare anyone - anyone - to place an order right now and
> see how fast he/she can get one. Typical of Arcadeshop. To Advertise
> items he does not have, at a much lower cost that the competition, to make
> them
> look bad. And by the way, if you had a clue, you would know that price is
> dictated
> by quantity. In the case of the glass bezels, only 30 were ordered, to
> satisfy the purist
> collectors, hence the price. No one is forcing to buy one.
>
Most companies make their products known before they actually ship.
I think you are trying to make this bad because it does not say
available and ready to ship? How long did you post on your web page
Gauntlet side art was in production?
>
>
>
> "Gooch" <ge...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:5d773e91.0209...@posting.google.com...
> > > So one day Philippe and I were talking and he made me a proposal to form
> a
> > > partnership without any restrictions or strings attached, it was
> something I
> > > couldnt pass up.
> >
> >
> > I take it the 'without restrictions' part means charging insane
> > amounts for repros like the Robotron bezels?? C'mon $150 for a bezel?
> > How is it that Steven can reproduce these and only charge $75? And
> > don't say because they will be of inferior quality, because we all
> > know (you included) the excellent quality of the reproductions Steven
> > makes.
> >
> > Trying to screw collectors out of their hard earned cash doesn't earn
> > points here buddy.
>
>
>
--
Steven Gregory
www.arcadeshop.com
Azarcadegames
on IRC IM'ing each other about this. According to Jon, you were in his garage
and he offered his NOS cpo to you and you said you werent going to make it.
Then I told you I was going to make it and you told me you had it in
production! I asked Jon about this and he said you were lying. It will be
interesting to see what Jon says about this if he cares to comment. btw, Jon
loaned me the NOS :)
Anyways, at that time I was using the same printer as you were. I called him up
and point blank asked him if it was in production. He told me no, but you did
ask for a quote about 6 months prior. But so did Philippe and that didnt mean
he was in production and he told me to go for it. So you mean to tell me just
because something is quoted its in production! If it truly was in production
then I wouldnt want to do it. Hello.
Ah yes, the email I sent you about the Asteroids cardboard bezels and side art.
I said I was going to make them and sell them for $5 each and also said wait
until you see my side art price. I have nothing to hide. And for the record, I
sent this to you AFTER you listed the Robo bezels on your site 3 days after my
limited run preorder period ended. I said, if you want a war you got one. And
now you do. I also called you a pussy for not having the balls to call me an
asshole to my face, since you feel so manly saying that behind my back.
You said we did SOME business together? You told me I was one of your 3 best
customers on the phone! Do you care to divulge the amounts Ive spent? I have
all the receipts my friend. Does $10k+ ring a bell? Is it almost $20k? I dont
think I even spent $1k with Philippe.
Yes I did complain about the last time you tried to sell me a "new" MsPac., but
I walked away from that price, it was higher than the last one you sold me. Do
you care to tell these people that you IM'd me afterwards on IRC and offered me
a lower price than I paid before and a very good deal (priced way below your
site) for a restored Donkey Kong?
Do you want to tell these people that you threatened the printer we both used
to stop doing business with me or lose your account? Then you emailed me about
it to tell me so?
Maybe Im wrong about the NOW AVAILABLE bezels, I thought it was a scrolling
message at the bottom of yuor page, but it did say new with a price next to it.
Next time try "coming soon", its sounds a lot less deceptive.
As far as the agreement not to make the same thing anyones else is and you
claiming you didnt say no? Well I swear on my life, so help me God Almighty,
that you did say you would not agree to this. Only Dave and Philippe agreed.
I love how you decided NOT to respond about the Robo bezels. Hehehehehe.
darin
Steven Gregory
bmmt...@aol.com says...
> from azarcadegames- Darin Jacobs
> > So one day Philippe and I were talking and he made me a proposal to form a>
> partnership without any restrictions or strings attached, it was something I>
> couldnt pass up.
>
> from ge...@yahoo.com
> <<<I take it the 'without restrictions' part means charging insaneamounts for
> repros like the Robotron bezels?? C'mon $150 for a bezel? How is it that
> Steven can reproduce these and only charge $75? Anddon't say because they will
> be of inferior quality, because we allknow (you included) the excellent quality
> of the reproductions Stevenmakes.Trying to screw collectors out of their hard
> earned cash doesn't earnpoints here>>>
>
> HA HA HA
>
> well first, Darin HAS NOT charged $150 for his bezel, not even close. So if
> your going to challenge someone get your facts straight and DO NOT mislead
> people of this group.
>
> Second, I see that Steven is "advertising" Robotron and Joust bezels now, AFTER
> Darin announced right here his desire to repro these for all of us. HHHHMMM,
Actually, I printed Robotron & Joust bezel underlays before Arcade
Renovations, so this really another 'lets copy what they did and say we
are doing this for the purists'.
> makes me curious, what a coincidence. Why no pics on Steven site? Does he have
> them? Are they in the process of being produced?
Yes.
> OR maybe he is trying to
> undercut Darin's project so those without a clue like you will bash Darin's
> price.
Its not my wishes to start public bashing. As you can see Darin has
started this.
> I personally believe Steven is doing hard nosed business. No problem,
> its free enterprise. He has a business to run. So lets see proof of the bezels
> he has right now! I'd like to buy a couple, my money is out. I mean, after all,
> if your gonna advertise bezels for sale on your site, you damn well best have
> them. That would be really shitty to all us collectors, teasing us with
> products you don't have JUST for the purpose of undercutting the competition.
> Like I said, show me the bezels! My money is ready to buy!
So, offering the same product at a FAIR 50% less cost is being shitty?
I'm just letting the collecting community know they don't have to shell
out $150 (which is what it says on their web site) for a bezel.
> Third, how the hell do you know the quality of either bezel? What a horseshit
> comment. Have you seen any of these items yet? Let me answer the question for
> you, NO! Yes, Steven does have excellent stuff. And so does Darin and Philippe
> and a few other small time guys. You are jumping on Darin for no reason. If you
> don't like the guy and you praise Steven fine, but don't bring it here without
> any supporting facts.
The facts are they are charging $150 for a bezel. Thats worse than
what two bit charges for a bezel. Tempered glass just does not cost
this much. I'm sure a lot of folks here have bought tempered glass for
a ms pac cocktail and it would range about $40 to $65 from most glass
shops. Take in to consideration Robotron bezels are half the size and
half the thickness, the cost is going to be much less. Next, factor in
the printer they use has an account with glass suppliers and they are
getting a commercial bulk price even at 30.
I don't think he was bashing, just bring up a point that the bezel price
is out of line.
> We don't need any business shills in here. We all know
> both Darin and Steven do great work. I have bought stuff from both and never
> felt screwed from either guy. Steven does a great job, he runs a busy, he has
> to make money and he should. Darin is trying to bring products that we need,
> and he also does a great job and deserves to make something for himself. So who
> cares? If you don't like a product or price move on to the next guy. But don't
> bash people trying to help the hobby. Plus, its pretty damn obvious these guys
> have a little repro business war going on and its finally starting to build.
> You might want to open your eyes and get the big picture of whats REALLY going
> on before jumping on someone that has made several contributions to this hobby.
> What we DON'T need is for one of these guys to go down and stop making new
> stuff.
I agree, but take a look... arcade renovations has copied about 8 or 9
of the overlay I have been offering for sometime now.....
Centipede CPO
Stargate CPO
Defender CPO
Asteroids cocktail CPO
Centipede cocktail CPO
Dig Dug CPO
Gyruss CPO
Joust CPO
Moon Patrol CPO
720 side art
And the last one... Centipede bezels. They even stole the picture from
my web page and put it on theirs a day or two after I posted it.
http://arcaderenovations.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24_26
&products_id=43&osCsid=17699166ed9a09159e82085a682ce5ab
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
> So next time, don't butt your nose in here with your spinster banner. If
> anyone has to produce info here its Steven. People have already tried to order
> Robo and Joust bezels that are "advertised" on his site and guess what, it
> appears there is no bezel to ship. To me thats a little disturbing. You say he
> has them, well get all of us a picture. Strange OUT OF NOWHERE he is selling
> these items AFTER Darin announced these projects. And he has no picture, thats
> not like Steven. That just tells me he DEFINATLEY does not have them and
> probably doesn't even have the artwork.
Wrong, as you can see we have had Robotron bezel underlays for several
years, Joust too:
http://www.arcadeshop.com/pics/robo-mb.jpg
http://www.arcadeshop.com/pics/joust-mb.jpg
Of course you know artwork is required in order to print this.
Just in case: http://www.arcadeshop.com/pics/robotron-bezel-film.jpg
> If I am wrong, then show me proof! Lets
> see a picture right now! Lets see if he REALLY is producing these items. I
> thinks it a sham to hurt Darin personally. And hey, thats business. Let him and
> Darin go at it. But I don't like getting teased with offers of products that
> don't exist. At least Darin initiated this project and offered them here. He
> has taken pre-orders and is following through with updates. He is trying to
> help, and what does he get, crap from someone like you that can't get their
> facts straight.
He is not giving crap, just pointing out the prices.
Steven Gregory
azarca...@aol.com says...
> Ahhh gewch is back again, coming after me for pricing issues.
>
> First off, on ANY item I sell I can ask whatever I want. The market will tell
> me if the price is achievable. Did you bitch when Steven was asking a super
> high price for DK side art when it came out? He was in for a shock when
> Philippe came along and put out DK side art so much cheaper than Steven was
> selling it for.
Hahah, you have me mixed up with your partner... I asked $99 a set when
first announced. AR was taking preorders for $100 (seems like I recall
more) and then were going to charge $125 afterwards. I'm sure you don't
believe me, but here is proof:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000824120130/http://www.arcaderenovations.c
om/
And my price:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000824120027/www.arcadeshop.com/parts.htm
>
> Now to the Robos, as if you for once had any clue about reality.
>
> Steven sells an underlay that couldnt cost more than $5 to make and his online
> price is $40.
Nothing is that cheap. I wish it were.
> Now I have bought several of them from him and he knows it, but I
> have decided I wanted something better. And before I made a final decision to
> repro the bezels I emailed 6 very high profile rgvac'ers for opinions on glass
> and/or plexi. Feedback was given and a decision was made to do a small run of
> glass and a large run of plexi.
>
> The small run of glass (#30 of which #25 were offered for sale) was to
> accomodate the hard core collectors, certainly not for profit motives, I could
> have made the cardboard bezel instead and cashed in!
You are cashing in at $150.
>
> Ill sum it up here for ya.
>
> Bob from 2bit sells (he buys in bulk) his glass bezels for $100 (plus
> shipping) all day long. I even bought some from him, including one two weeks
> ago. Ok, so on a small run of 30 glass my cost is super high. Heres one way to
> check it. Go to your local glass store with the bezel measurements and order 30
> tempered glass pieces. Kinda high I bet. Now add more for art recreation and
> for the printing itself, then add for the cost to have the glass shipped from
> the printer to me.
>
> Based on all that, my margins are very low and I dont care if you believe me or
> not. Here is where Steven comes in.
>
> He is jealous (like your money broke ass) and/or he is mad that we are selling
> these and he is losing customers from his super high margin'ed cardboard bezel
> sales.
I'm not mad nor jealous, I'm simply reprinting all my bezels on glass or
plexi. I'm sure you're not going to believe me but here is what is LEFT
from TWO pallets of bezels I've ordered in the last few months:
http://www.arcadeshop.com/pics/bezels1.jpg
http://www.arcadeshop.com/pics/bezels2.jpg
As you can see I order in bulk and pass the savings on to the collecting
and business community. That is clearly not one of your intentions.
As for the timing of this... I'm running very low on the underlay bezels
which I currently offer, and have been replacing them with plexi for
some time. This is only the next step in for us. Next we will be
reprinting Stargate and Defender bezels on plexi as well as other items.
I can tell you this, it will not be a limited run, prices will be no
where near your price range and none of our customers will have to pre
order in order to finance the project.
>
> So our limited run price is $130 shipped. After the preorder period (Sept 6th)
> we chose to up the price to whatever we feel the market will bear. All the
> while knowing we have a limited supply of 8 left! So the website price is $150.
> Boo, cry all ya want.
Sounds like greed to me.
>
> Back to Stevens website. He doesnt have a picture and the site says "new" with
> pricing next to it.
How about I just take one from your web site like you guys did with my
Centipede bezel: http://arcaderenovations.com/catalog/product_info.php?
cPath=24_26&products_id=43&osCsid=ec17661fc3c978928c197c386fcabbe9
Mine: http://www.arcadeshop.com/pics/centipede-ur-bezel.jpg
As you can see from the picture they removed the carpet and shrunk
down the size.
> When we have art on the site we either say its available or
> its coming at a particular date. I mean, who offers stuff for sale they KNOW
> THEY DONT HAVE!
You take money for items you don't have. Thats worse.
> We always post bad stuff in here about people like that. The
> only way he can sell glass so cheap is to make a large run. Tell me why he has
> NEVER done any glass bezels before?
See above pics...
> Why is he doing Joust at the same time as
> us when he knows that I went public 2 weeks ago with my intentions for Joust?
> Why does he still have the cardboard bezel at $40 and the plexi for $45?
The cardboard bezel underlays were all joint projects with Herb Silvers
of Fabulous Fantasies. He headed the project and the price I paid him
was more than what I can have item produced for today.
>
> Ironically he added these items with a low price to stick it to us AFTER the
> prepaid period was over and we collected money. So I have to answer his
> pricing, and I will. I will take care of all the prepaids, believe me I will.
I'm not sticking anything to anyone. You on the other hand you are.
>
> With the quality issue, hell yes he sells some great stuff, but not all of it
> is perfect. Some items have obvious flaws. I wont name all of them, but the
> Defender bezel is the worst thing this side of ArcadeGrafix! Only a true side
All of the bezel underlays were Herb Silvers creations. I guess you
will start on him next. Speaking of flaws... The non production Track
and Field cpos you made. I don't see a statement on your web site
saying its a reproduction of a CPO not commonly used.
> by side comparison of his and mine will reveal the final result and the
> consumer will be the judge and I will still sleep well at night
>
> Let the party begin, because this guy doesnt back down from a shootout!
>
> Care to show me the glass bezels Steven?
I think your goal is to brainwash the community into thinking we will
never have these bezels. If so, you are so sadly mistaken.
Steven Gregory
www.arcadeshop.com
Steven Gregory
azarca...@aol.com says...
> Really Steven? The Sinistar person was Jon Exidy. Im saying it now. We were all
> on IRC IM'ing each other about this. According to Jon, you were in his garage
> and he offered his NOS cpo to you and you said you werent going to make it.
> Then I told you I was going to make it and you told me you had it in
> production! I asked Jon about this and he said you were lying. It will be
> interesting to see what Jon says about this if he cares to comment. btw, Jon
> loaned me the NOS :)
I know he told me you asked him for it when I told you I was working on
them.
>
> Anyways, at that time I was using the same printer as you were. I called him up
> and point blank asked him if it was in production. He told me no, but you did
> ask for a quote about 6 months prior. But so did Philippe and that didnt mean
> he was in production and he told me to go for it. So you mean to tell me just
> because something is quoted its in production! If it truly was in production
> then I wouldnt want to do it. Hello.
Doug, also thought the panel I sent him was from Philippe, but that
wasn't the case.
>
> Ah yes, the email I sent you about the Asteroids cardboard bezels and side art.
> I said I was going to make them and sell them for $5 each and also said wait
> until you see my side art price. I have nothing to hide. And for the record, I
> sent this to you AFTER you listed the Robo bezels on your site 3 days after my
> limited run preorder period ended. I said, if you want a war you got one. And
> now you do. I also called you a pussy for not having the balls to call me an
> asshole to my face, since you feel so manly saying that behind my back.
Most I spoke with at the auction seemed to agree with me.
>
> You said we did SOME business together? You told me I was one of your 3 best
> customers on the phone! Do you care to divulge the amounts Ive spent? I have
> all the receipts my friend. Does $10k+ ring a bell? Is it almost $20k? I dont
> think I even spent $1k with Philippe.
What does this have to do with anything? It doesn't matter if its was
$1 or $100,000. You got deals no one else has ever had. A fully
restored Donkey Kong for $600. Please, you've done me no favors.
>
> Yes I did complain about the last time you tried to sell me a "new" MsPac., but
> I walked away from that price, it was higher than the last one you sold me. Do
> you care to tell these people that you IM'd me afterwards on IRC and offered me
> a lower price than I paid before and a very good deal (priced way below your
> site) for a restored Donkey Kong?
Yes, I offered you even a better deal yet you still complained. This is
the reason I'm not bothering to deal with you anymore. You are greedy.
You always want more, and when you don't get it, you start publicly
bashing folks.
>
> Do you want to tell these people that you threatened the printer we both used
> to stop doing business with me or lose your account? Then you emailed me about
> it to tell me so?
I never said that. I told him things going on were becoming to be a
conflict of interest. For example... Phillipe accused me of stealing
artwork (as if I had access to it) so artwork could be printed for me.
I don't use Superiorimaging for my printing, but as we all can see, here
is a proof of my Donkey Kong Jr. side art which was posted here for you
to approve. I know you guys just reprinted DK jr side art. Wasn't that
a limited run too?
http://www.superiorimaging.com/proofs/intercompany/dkjrside.jpg
This was I was trying to avoid, but it doesn't seem to have helped.
>
> Maybe Im wrong about the NOW AVAILABLE bezels, I thought it was a scrolling
> message at the bottom of yuor page, but it did say new with a price next to it.
> Next time try "coming soon", its sounds a lot less deceptive.
Maybe I do like you guys did with Gauntlet side art. "in production"
and leave that up for a year.
>
> As far as the agreement not to make the same thing anyones else is and you
> claiming you didnt say no? Well I swear on my life, so help me God Almighty,
> that you did say you would not agree to this. Only Dave and Philippe agreed.
I recall you asking for a Gentlemen's agreement right after you asked
jon to send you his NOS Sinistar cpo.
>
> I love how you decided NOT to respond about the Robo bezels. Hehehehehe.
I think I have, if not let me know which part. Next time YOU post,
include all of the original text so everyone can see what you are
replying to. This way you can't avoid issues like you did in this
reply.
Heheheheh
Azarcadegames
me time to make a change in my order.
Our price will be drastically reduced and the prepaid orders will get refunds
on the different amounts based on a larger order.
Like I said previously, you sell a crappy underlay which I got quoted for $4.97
and selling it on your site for $25
Ironically 3 days after my prepaid period for the limited run ended, you came
out with your pricing. I still dont believe you ran out of the cardboard
bezels, you knew that once we came out with glass and plexi you couldnt
possibly keep gouging on that $40 piece of cardboard. How come you NEVER did a
bezel in glass before and only decided to do it after we did?
I will repeat this again. The price on the website for $150 was when we were
down to a very small quantity left after the preorders for which we never
planned I dont feel guilty about this.
So I try to do a limited run on something and you bash me for it. We decide to
do limited runs in some cases because we dont want to take a large risk. Some
items are sure sellers, other are not so sure. Im guessing most of the people
who have bought our limited runs were quite happy we did.
Ready for some REAL HONESTY. My total cost per unit including everything is $87
each for 30. So Im selling them as preorders on rgvac for $130 shipped (minus
$20 shipping is $110) and my net profit is $23! Im REALLY ripping people off
huh. I have a dated and signed quote. Care to share yours? I know your costs
will be lower because you have the film and the art file already as you show
here.
As far as taking prepaids, Ive never screwed anyone out of a penny. If a
project doesnt happen, everyone gets a refund. On a limited run a prepaid
guarantees they will get one of the small number produced. Or in some cases
prepaids gets them a lower price.
btw, will you be offering a money back guarantee on your bezels or any art
piece for that matter? You wouldnt issue me a refund on the shitty Defender
bezel, which we just might have to repro because yours suck.
I never said you werent going to make the bezels. I know you will. You have to
now.
darin
Azarcadegames
http://makeashorterlink.com/?P42512AD1
Jon responded to me about this and we made a deal. After that he sold me his
Spce Dungeon.
We both know any repro is best from an NOS piece, not a panel, so why would you
pass on Jon's cpo?
You gave me deals no one else had? First off, I won that $600 DK in an auction
on eBay. I printed the auction, care to see it for memory purposes? Next I
have no idea what you sell to other people and the prices you gave. You wouldnt
make any deals with me that you didnt feel good about. I didnt force you to do
anything. Sure I didnt pay your website prices for games, even so, I paid a LOT
of money for each one.
darin
Azarcadegames
going here.
Ive recieved a LOT of emails about this thread from people asking me to let
this lay and the products will speak for themselves.
As an FYI, I emailed Steven and he has not responded:
Subj: once again
Date: 9/19/02 10:20:45 PM US Mountain Standard Time
From: Azarcadegames
To: sgre...@arcadeshop.com
id be happy to call you and discuss this like men. i dont want to fight, but
you leave me no choice when you do what you did to me.
but i doubt you would take my call, just like you dont answer my emails.
==============================
Note the time, he was still posting to rgvac after he recieved this.
darin
Arcade-Revival
hobby is getting uglier everytime I log on.Always a damn war going on in
here.I emailed you both privately, you know I am neutral, but this is
enough.There will be no winner here.Instead, we all lose everytime we have
to see this kind of B.S. on the newsgroup.
--
Dave
It' Alive ! It's Alive !
"Steven Gregory" <sgre...@arcadeshop.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.17f45773e...@news.surfsouth.com...
big dog
I dont see how anyone is loosing by this......seems like it makes for more
competitive pricing. Im all for that.
Mark Capps
Dan Coogan
There will be no winners here if this talk continues -- the community is the
real winner when different QUALITY PRODUCTS are available and the sellers can
make a DECENT PROFIT (that's the American Way) and CONTINUE DOING BUSINESS.
(You know what -- these are the kind of secrets you wish you were privy to, and
then you find out, and wish you never heard the secret in the first place.)
Darin -- I respect you 100%. I have seen your work in person and it's
beautiful. You are an asset to the collecting community. We are lucky to have
you contributing your time, money and energy.
Steven -- I have heard great, positive comments about your work and the quality
of it. I hope to buy products from you in the future and wish the best to you
and your business.
Please find a way to get past this and back to the great work you both do.
Peace,
Dan Coogan
Arcade-Revival wrote:
> This whole thread makes me wanna sell my games. What's supposed to be a fun
> hobby is getting uglier everytime I log on. Always a damn war going on in
> here. I emailed you both privately, you know I am neutral, but this is
> enough. There will be no winner here.Instead, we all lose everytime we have
> to see this kind of B.S. on the newsgroup.
>
> --
> Dave
>
> It' Alive ! It's Alive !
>
> www.arcade-revival.com
--
Dan Coogan
Coogan Photographic / Phoenix, AZ
Phone: 602.220.9192
big dog
This is just how business goes......it doesnt hurt collectors for these guys to
have a dispute. Money will continue to drive repro proudcts....thats just how it
is(*_*)
Mark Capps
James Cross
inexpensive but quality Robotron bezels for everyone! :)
I'm not directing this at either one of you but in the future, it might
be better to counter a product with another product instead of the same
one. For instance, if someone makes Robotron and Joust bezels, the other
can make Stargate and Defender bezels. There is a need for all of those
bezels and everyone will win in the end. You guys will get higher prices
for your products and the collectors will get a broader selection of
goodies to choose from. There is still a lot of artwork that hasn't been
touched at this point. If you couldn't work out a gentlemen's agreement
before, now would be a good time to try again (er, maybe in a week when
the adrenaline has returned to normal levels).
James
In article <3D8AE154...@bellsouth.net>, catf...@bellsouth.net
says...
Jon eXidy
I just wanted to say hello to darin and steven.
HI!
jon.evil e.
--
============================
Evil Exidy's Hide Out
www.arcade-classics.com
irc #arcade chatroom
============================
jrok
<snip><snip><snip><snip>
>
> Phillipe accused me of stealing
>artwork (as if I had access to it) so artwork could be printed for me.
>I don't use Superiorimaging for my printing, but as we all can see, here
>is a proof of my Donkey Kong Jr. side art which was posted here for you
>to approve. I know you guys just reprinted DK jr side art. Wasn't that
>a limited run too?
>
>http://www.superiorimaging.com/proofs/intercompany/dkjrside.jpg
Hey also change up a directory or two http://www.superiorimaging.com/proofs/
You know what they say...
"The sincerest from of flattery is imitation" ;)
-James
------------------------------
JrokLand http://www.jrok.com
------------------------------
Jon eXidy
i think both arcade renovations and arcadeshop do a great job reproducing
stuff. and i buy from both AR and AS - i have no problems with either
company.
yes.. i gave the sinistar overlay to AR, that is because steven told me that
he was not going to make them.
jon/evil e
--
============================
Evil Exidy's Hide Out
www.arcade-classics.com
irc #arcade chatroom
============================
"Azarcadegames" <azarca...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020920031620...@mb-cg.aol.com...
Azarcadegames
At least you didnt show my Designer Decal links.
Philippe is known to be gone until Monday, then Im sure he will respond to
this. I dont have access to his server to show his proof for DK Jr with his
name on it. This proof was done before I came aboard.
darin
jrok
>
>Hmm, thanks for showing my proofs James. Not sure what I have ever done to you.
>At least you didnt show my Designer Decal links.
Ermm.. so you put your art online, on a public server that Steven already
posted a link to. I'm sorry you didn't secure your stuff, if it was that
important perhaps you should keep it safe in future ?
Tip of the day, make sure the webserver has browse turned 'off'.
So.. what about the question then ? Why is a proof of an Arcadeshop artwork up
there?
You seem quite defensive, did you get caught out or something ?
- James
Azarcadegames
back online. What would you say if his proof has an earlier date than Stevens?
I have nothing to hide. Everyone knows what I make, I go public with it before
it comes out. I answer all art repro related threads when I can. I usually
state if and when I might be doing them and sometimes a price.
I dont want to get into particulars on the details on my partnership with
Philippe, but we each do seperate repros and have yet to release a truly joint
project. Multi Wms will be the first.
If you have questions about proof links, call or email Superior Imaging, or
have Steven call Designer Decal or Superior Imaging. I dont do any links,
everyone knows Im not that computer literate. I know zilch about webservers. In
fact, Ive asked that after one of my proofs is approved by me that they take it
down. Now I will insist.
So show me anyting that connects me to the dk jr link you refer to. You cant.
darin
Azarcadegames
Only thing that has been proven to be stolen was the Tempest art file that
Steven stole from Philippe. Go back and revisit that thread. Roy Chumbespuzz
went into great detail about the file he created for Philippe and it magically
got into Stevens hands.
darin
Dave Whitman
OK,I've tried to stay neutral on this since Steve is a good aquaintance and
I like a lot of ARs work,but
you are getting waaay to defensive,makes me think you have something to
hide.Seems to me that you
don't want any competition and you'll flame whoever gets in your way.Please
correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm not trying to flame you or take sides,just pointing out the way I see
it.
Dave
jrok
http://www.jrok.com/xfer/links/page_1.gif
http://www.jrok.com/xfer/links/page_2.gif
You know.. perhaps it's just a big conspiracy ? Someone putting out the
artwork with your name right next to it, I suppose it's just some
totally random happening right?
-James
---------------------
http://www.jrok.com
---------------------
jrok
>
>Also why not show us Stevens links? A little too one sided are ya?
Even better why don't YOU post some links for us ?
I'm not being one sided here, I'm just interested in something
that Steven brought up in an earlier thread.
I was asking for your side of it, so in response you claim that I'm
being one-sided, not a very rational argument there.
I think you should just claim it's all a government conspiracy.
-James
Azarcadegames
I do business with Superior Imaging. I used to do business with Designer Decal
until Steven told them not to or he would take his business elsewhere. Did you
know that Superior is a branch of Designer Decal?
Those links you show prove nothing except that I do business with them
Do you really think me or Philippe taking a $200 art file would financially
change our lives? $200 is nothing to me.
Like I said, DK Jr was done long before I got into this. And one of the reasons
I got into this was to do art no one else was doing. I begged Philippe to do
Robo marquees for a long time. So I did them, before we were partners too.
Every single project I have done has not been done by anyone else before me.
I welcome the competition, Im not afraid of it, my products will stand the
test.
I am defensive and have nothing to hide. Im still looking for anything that
would tie me to your accusations.
darin
Gooch
> Perhaps you cant read? Philippe will show his art proof for DK Jr.when he gets back online. What would you say if his proof has an earlier date than Stevens?
Perhaps you can't read Darun - you still have yet to answer James'
question. Why was there a proof of Arcadeshop's DK Jr. sideart on
your printer's website? Does not matter if it had a previous date or
not, the eye catcher is the name Arcade Shop Amusements on the proof.
And yes, we all see that you removed the proof as well as the proofs
and pics of the Multi-Williams art. Luckily for you, the webpages
have been saved for prosperity. I clearly saw a subdirectory labeled
darinjacobs in there....perhaps that is not you?
So, I suppose you deny any involvement or knowledge that artwork was
up there?
It was nothing to do with you and you were as suprised as everyone
else to find it, so now you pass the buck to Philippe to answer?
Seems your broke ass is reaching now. Have something to hide?
BMMTWINS
>RGVACers who helped finalize the decision about the Robotron bezels? I mean,
>what are they, some kind of "High Council of Arcade Games" that meets on IRC
>or
>something? Kinda sounds like a good ol' boy thing to me...
>
>From waaay down here,
>Dan
My guess here Dan is that there may be some individuals that may have some
professional insight on a particular project. Having someone with a good eye or
maybe a lot of knowledge reviewing particular repro artwork can only help. I
don't think the comment was made to belittle others, rather to lend credibility
to a particular project. Not sure if Steven, Darin or Phlippe have others look
at all their proofs as a "sounding board" before they go to print, but it seams
like a good idea if you find people that know their stuff. Will only help bring
us quality repros. Billy Milos
Azarcadegames
Imaging. They are related companies. If you also viewed the files James listed,
only a few of my projects were in there. The DK Jr didnt have my name on it,
nor did that automobile file and I have no idea why that was in here. SHOW ME
THE SUBDIRECTORY WITH MY NAME AND THE DK JR FILE ATTACHED TO ME.
Not passing the buck, Philippe did DK Jr LONG BEFORE I hooked up with him. So
why would I need a proof from Steven? Plus when Philippe returns he will show
his proof and he also release DK Jr before Steven back in 2000. Guys I just
came aboard this year.
6 high profile people are: Bret Pherson, Mike Haaland, Scott Evans, Steve
Wallace, Billy Milos and Tim@arcadecollecting (most will identify him this
way). I still have the email and Im sure they do too.
Lastly, IF Steven really believes his art files are being stolen by me and we
use the same printers (only different locations, Seattle and Spokane) he really
should call his rep. and ask them how we got the files and fire them and get a
new printer. Because if Steven gets a hold of my Robotron art file through
them, Im making sure someone at the printer gets fired and then Im leaving
them.
darin
Dave Whitman
> Not passing the buck, Philippe did DK Jr LONG BEFORE I hooked up with him.
So
> why would I need a proof from Steven? Plus when Philippe returns he will
show
> his proof and he also release DK Jr before Steven back in 2000. Guys I
just
> came aboard this year.
So far all I've rad was that "when Phillipe returns",just admit that your a
thieving POS.