ARCADE VIDEO GAME SALES are dying!
Todd Tuckey
composed this email back...thought I would share my thoughts with all of
you!
Boy has this industry changed...in last 8 months I have seen a complete
reversal...sales of 95% of the video games we have have practically stopped.
No one wants anything except multi-games and Ms Pacman it seems.
We took shopped Dig Dug Jungle Hunt Time Pilot Gyruss Crystal Castles Mario
Brothers Pole Position Galaxian Kangaroo Donkey Kong Jr right out of our
showrooms last Thursday...sold only half of them in the Buy it Now at MD
auction for $399 to $599 (DK Jr had new side art and got $899 for it though)
in the actual auction later, they didn't get anywhere near the buy it now
prices...no interest in paying retail anymore...just did another deal today
for 20 games shopped and shipped to Alabama for $12,000 ($600 each)....
Target stores is now selling a 12 in 1 arcade style game for $499 with
classics in it! Cosco is selling Arcade Legends for $1999--slightly more
than my wholesale cost!
Many "rare" video games like Radar Scope will only fetch $300 to $500...only
a very select few are desirable anymore...
This really is the end of most single games selling anywhere near retail...I
certainly cannot drop prices that low and stay open. We have already
eliminated our second warehouse we had for 5 years in August, and I have
given notice where I rent 10,000 square ft that I am not renewing lease in 3
years---by then I am downsizing to 5000 sq ft maximum for storage...we are
going from the 125 different video games in stock to 35 in stock.
As you know I have been donating up a storm...over 80 pieces for 2005
alone...I have junked/parted out/sold cheap 150 more games this year also...
Pinball suffers also...it costs so damn much to overhaul an old
pinball..parts and labor exceeding $1000 and retail between $1299 and $1799
for a late 70's and 80's pinball...so we will eliminate most of them too and
concentrate on late 80's and 90's pins which command a higher retail to make
it worthwhile (they require $1000 usually also!)....
Hope this hasn't depressed all of you!! Todd from TNT Amusements Inc....
phoenixarcade.com
tragedy to lose someone like you
maybe bring in an outside business associate and ask him for some
advice. its always good to hear a different angle from someone you
trust. theyll likely shoot you straight instead of over dramatizing
things for better or worse.
with a track record and location like yours i would think the
transition to dedicate part of your showroom to multi games would be
simple. perhaps a mix of classics and multigames? im just thinking out
loud here.
MARK
when i was predicting this from my own experience since 9/11 My book showed
sales off by 90% within a year or two later.Now someone should do a Google
search on me for that instead of all the other useless information .Believe
me im not a happy man from this happening to the business that i fed my
family for so many years from.But we all know Todd and his experience in
this field.I had said something like.Lets face it people would rather have
the new technology and multi games that save space and are way cheaper by
the game.Sad but true.I had also said this is the end of an Era.I also said
there will always be die hard collectors and people on here that will always
love games.Then i went on to say sell your games while they are still worth
the wood they are made of.I would now say if someone as well known and as
big of a business as Todd has says the same thing.Then i also think people
will be able to pick games and classic one's too for a song from the
homeowner who needs the room in their garage or basement and will get rid of
his 10 or 20 games and replace them with a reasonable priced Multi
game.Sorry but true.I also said i would buy one due to the fact that i sold
my house and bought a Condo since my 2 sons moved out.I think im going to
place a want to buy add in the local paper that im looking to buy your old
games again and post the results i get to see where this business/Hobby
stands.I don't wish this to happen because it really killed my income from
games.But i did see this coming.Good luck Todd i'll email you tomorrow.
"Todd Tuckey" <tntqu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:csW9f.6369$N73.5792@trnddc04...
MARK
games.He can't compete with Costco and stores that have huge buying
power.Todd said that 1999.99 is only a little less then his cost,You would
have to sell tons of them to pay your rent and all the other expenses it
takes to run a big place like his.Good luck Todd.I already am selling off
what little i have left.I already have some other small forms of income that
i started exploring when i fist noticed the market dying 2-3 years ago.
--
THANKS.MARK,
MARKLINE VENDING
BUY/SELL/TRADE/VIDEO GAMES
VENDING MACHINES,SLOTS,PINBALLS
OVER 100+CLASSIC VIDEO GAMES IN STOCK,ETC.ETC.
516-678-9671
"phoenixarcade.com" <azarca...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1130903702....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
big dog
The strange thing is that the folks that I have sold games to for good
money, never retail but good money, all knew about MAME. Collectors
will always want to buy, trade and sell games. The only folks that wont
be buying games anymore were the suckers who would walk in and drop 2k
on a Ms. Pac that someone had bought for $200 just a day prior. Those
days have and are gone, but I really don't see how these multigames
bother the collecting market for games. I do see these games being sold
at Cosco stopping the ability to sell to uninformed buyers who were
paying maybe, $1000 (too much) for a Ms.Pac now, effecting business. I
guess what I am getting at is, collectors on the newsgroups and at
auctions were paying good money for common and rare titles when they
knew they could go home and play them on the computer for free, these
cheap multigames are nothing more than a computer in a particleboard
box. The collectors wanted and still want the real thing, if they did
not they would have built a mame box a long time ago. I think the
market has bottomed out at this point and will start to rise from here
or stay stable. Games can still be sold, for good $, they just cant be
sold for absurd cash anymore, and they cant be sold at a very fast rate.
I myself have over 500 games and I don't stress out about their
value. I don't see them falling to $100 and if they do, no big deal. I
paid about that much for them by working my tail off looking for deals
while others sat on their asses wanting someone to sell them a game well
below the market value. I would either donate, keep or throw most of my
games away before I would sell them for nothing, that is and will always
remain true. If I had to sell all 500 of those games to stay afloat then
that would be a different issue to me. I am a game seller, buyer, and
trader, but I do not depend on it to survive. If you do depend on it to
survive, I would suggest what Darin was talking about...looking into
other avenues and venues that are related to what you are doing now. It
is hard to see things clearly when you are upset about your living, let
another person take a look and perhaps you will see many options better
than what you had before.
The sky is not falling,
Mark Capps
Todd Tuckey
own games...I have 90 dedicated minis and cabarets and are trying to find
the last remaining ones missing. My dream was to open a museum in the
Philly area (to attract people visiting historic Philly) that would have all
set up and working. Our company is still viable, as our private parties are
booked solid for 2-3 months in advance, and our rental business does well.
However, our street collections have fallen to the lowest level in our
history--collections are really a joke--we collected a 2004 touchscreen game
and a bowling shuffle alley in a popular candy store today...the month gross
was $95 for both games---used to do $300 a WEEK! Our game sales were off
every month this year compared to last except for one month though...while,
in the past, EVERY month increased EVERY year....With 20 employees--half who
have families, and depend on the income, with our medical plan, pension
plan, and the huge workers comp insurance along with all the other stuff you
give your employees---we MUST make money to meet our expenses every week.
Its just a matter now of finding another rabbit to pull out of the hat!!
Todd
big dog
Do you think you were and are a prophet? What happened is that you cant
make an incredible amount of money from game sales anymore, that was
obvious no prediction on your part. Do you have to tell us this in
every post? Is it necessary for you to feel good about yourself or be a
man. Yes the business is gone, but collectors will still buy and sell
at good dollar figures amongst themselves. If you are a collector you
can still make money, if you were just always into it for the
money...well that's why they have the old saying "save you money for a
rainy day."
Mark Capps
Bentley Bear
are valid. The old Dogs, like Todd, and Mark, and Possibly Art?, who
are/were in this longterm and their opinion is to be respected. And the
other side is the collectors only crowd. We are the ones who refuse to admit
our games are "going for less", I personally am actually a smalltime
collector (read <20games) who is downsizing and dumping parts and the games
I don't need asap, why? I don't think my situation is caused by market, I
just realized I enjoy repairing boards more than owning games, and also have
very little space. tired of 0 room in the garage.
I think that there is change at hand. collectors will ride it out, and
others will sell.
good deals to be had people!
PS: Bid on my auctions!
- Bentley Bear
"big dog" <catf...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:meqdnRNITes...@comcast.com...
BWAGNER5150
pinball group, and had a really similar response. No knock against
Todd, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why retail
prices aren't going to hold.
Todd,
With all due respect, I think this is overblown....at least for
collectors.
I'm a vid collector primarily, and I've certainly noticed the market in
vids cool as well. It's certainly gone down a lot from the bubble
about two years ago, but I don't think the sky's falling.....at least
for collectors. Prices between collectors have never been as sky-high
as vendors, and those asking sky-high prices are going to feel the
pinch first. I empathize and understand why many businesses need to
charge high amounts for games.....labor, overhead, etc.
However, quite frankly, looking at TnT's price sheet for games, I have
to say that I can see why sales ~have~ slowed to only the most popular
titles. $1399 for an Asteroids? $1399 for a Centipede? $1799 for a
Galaga?!! LOL! Come on man, your prices on vids are OUTRAGEOUS!! No
wonder no one is buying them. These are crazy price even for two years
ago. Yes, prices on vids have dipped, but they're not in on an
absolute deathbed as you're painting it. If you adjusted your prices
down, sales just might rise. And if you truly can't lower prices, I've
got to ask....how in the heck did you sink $1800 into a Galaga?
People are certainly no longer paying crazy money for games, but prices
are just fine on the collector level. Of course if you're charging
$1800 for a Galaga a layman is going to end up looking at other options
like amulti-game Arcade Legends in the $2k range. Galagas go on Ebay
for $600-$800 or so. At the height, they went for $1000-$1200. When
did they ever go (in any sort of volume) for what TnT is charging?
This hasn't depressed me. Just means that the great classics are a
little more accessable and the gougers have even less of a footing.
Ben
JD
I was always an arcade junkie and techno geek. I currently work in the
computer industry and just recently moved into a 3,500 sq ft home with
space for some sort of game room.
One day while looking in the local for sale section on a local web forum
I found that someone was selling a Black Tiger for $150... this was last
year sometime, I think around Oct-Nov. Now after looking on Ebay at
games and seeing prices for uprights (including shipping costs) I knew
this was a good deal as long as the game worked and the cabinet was in
decent shape. My only interest was just owning a REAL arcade game for
the gameroom. Picked it up, brought it home, and when the family was
over for X-mas the kids went nuts. The XBox, Playstation, and every
other toy to play with was completely disregarded. the younger kids were
fascinated and even the adluts wanted to play... Black Tiger mind you...
Well after the success with the 1 game I decided I wanted to go for the
full effect. Which game I bring home was not my primary goal but getting
games at a good price to fill the gameroom without going broke was my
new challenge.
So I watched Ebay for sales in my area (no way I am paying more in
shipping than the game itself) I ended buying a Tetris (game for the
ladies and wife) and Virtual Fighter 2. I can't remember exactly what I
paid for these but I think it was under $600 for both. Both played
perfectly... VF2 needs new sideart, CPO, and a little cab work. Tetris
needed new CPO and side art.
Next focus was a Pinball and maybe a MAME machine to save some money but
get all the classics. Pins are flat out hard to find under $1K if nice,
working, and actually fun to play.
While looking for a pinball another local deal came up that seemed like
a good thing. Terminator 2 shooter 5 minutes from the house working and
in great shape except for side art (can't find anywhere by the way).
$350 and everyone loves it. Game would freak out under extended play,
just needed voltage adjustment.
Next up is a Last Action Hero pinball 10 minutes from the house on Ebay.
No one bid and I contacted the seller about buying at his reserve...
$850.00. Asked if he could wait until I went to my first Auction and he
agreed. Now this is where I get a little confused about prices falling
in this business. Now granted, crappy games like Narc sold for $150 and
real large games like steel talons were a tough sell but the Pins all
went WAY higher than the $850 I had waiting back home and decent games
and driving sit downs went pretty high. Miss Pacs and Multicades were
crazy high.
I left with a 4 player TMNT with a good working 25 inch WG for $330
after tax and fees. This was going to be my MAME machine but I have
decided to get the CPO, Marquee, and Side art and restore it to it's
past glory (will be a great game for the kids). MAME seemed like a good
idea at one point but really, I barely have time to play my dedicated
games... when am I going to play all the others?
Next opportunity came with someone nearby selling a Karate Champ on
Ebay. Won the auction for $60 bucks. Needs new Bezel, CPO, side art...
fills space and it is a classic to me.
Since I had decided not to MAME I needed a Killer Instinct/KI2 since it
is my favorite fighter. Got lucky on Ebay and picked KI2 up local for
$355. Also scored a Fishermans Bait for the wife (the game she really
wanted in the room) for $360.
Last thing I will be looking for now is a KI PCB to run dual Jamma in
the dedicated KI2 Cab and a Driving game (would really like Star Wars
pod racer... $500 or less)
Now I start the work of restoring the new look to all the games (KI2 and
Bait were purchased this way the rest need work to look new.)
Ways that you guys can still make money... just throwing some ideas out
there.
1. Try advertising renting games for events and kids birthdays and
holidays... the key word here is advertise somehow... maybe flyers at
the local bakery where cakes for the party are picked up.
2. Throw games together that collectors don't care about but home
consumers might buy just to say they have a game. Sell by word of mouth,
local paper, online local forums... under $300.
3. Move to where bigger houses are being built and the house market is
going up... Florida comes to mind... people tell me the prices at the
Orlando Super Auction were unusally high. If not moving operations then
have games available in other areas somehow... networking, find someone
in another area willing to house some games for sale until they sell.
4. Try to think as games as retro furniture. Most games not played on a
PC, Xbox, or Playstation suck in comparison but kids are willing to give
up the latest and greatest for something different. Again, prices have
to be under $300 for old non collector games in uprights... $500 for
driving... $1k for fun pins.
5. Don't spend too much worring about physical appearance. Clean and
sturdy should do the trick. Side Art is irrelevant, CPO should be OK,
Marquee and coins should light up.
6. Try to get games back into resturants... not bars... places where
kids eat and get bored. I am in my thirties and would play arcade games
at any resturant and I know the kids would too. We usually eat where
they have at least 1 game. Beef O Bradys here locally just expanded
their arcade area. get a business to let you try out a game or 2 to see
what they make and then try to sell them the games outright plus a
couple when they see it generates business... not quarters but
customers. Am I the only one that misses cocktails of the frogger and
Pac variety at Benigans, Friday's, and the like?
Well it's getting late, just wanted to give some perspective from a
middle class consumer that isn't the type with deep pockets that would
walk into a retail location and drop $1K on a dusty Tapper. Hope it is
at least a little insightful for you guys.
P.S. Anyone looking to sell stuff cheap just to get rid of it in the
Central Florida area can drop me a note. ;)
JD
Isaac W.
reasonable way to move towards. I'd like to do a nickle arcade with
classics. Just something diffrent. I have a friend who wants to do a
toy/comic/arcade sometime. Not sure if it would work, but its possible.
I do think the coin-op industry need to re-invent itself if its going
to have a chance to keep up with the video game console world. Honestly
i could see doing an indoor/outdoor RC track, an arcade and mabey a
burger/food thing thats better then the average burger place.
my 2 bits
BrentRadio
doesn't matter what they are worth to me. Be it a dollar or $500.
Of course if I ever have to sell them I think I could break even. There will
always be the person who wants a REAL Donkey Kong, and not some crap from
Target. If you are a collector like me you want to see the prices of all
your favorite games come down. I haven't made a dime in this hobby and I
don't intend to.
I know I have spent way too much money that I will never get back but the
pleasure of owning these games more than makes up for it. Like I said I
never want to have to sell my games but if I did and I lost money, oh well,
I never intended this to be an investment.
Now who wants to play some games!
Brent
MARK
said i do other things to make money and thank goodness i don't depend on
only game sales to feed my family.It did take a big chunk out of my
income.But i started to replace it 2-3 years ago when i started to see this
happen.I also said there will always be collectors.news:Wa6dnXa498e...@comcast.com...
Steve Muccione
etc.). I've had about 2-3 of the previous collecting stores that have
opened and closed by me in the last 5 years or so. They come in, make some
money, then the novelty and the local business starts to dry out and they
close up... If they were in a big city it might have made a difference to
their staying power, but maybe not.
Let's face it, arcades are NOT cheap to own... even a $100 vid will cost you
$100 in parts (cap kits, new sticks, etc.) in general to get it up to
playable snuff. And that's on the cheap side...
A fully shopped out vid, no matter what it is, will add a few houndred to
the price just in man-hours alone (as you well know Todd). These costs
often aren't allocated correctly by the "collecters". Hell... a collector
won't even THINK of the amount of time he spends at an auction or doing a 2
hour round trip to pick up a junker... but when you have to actually pay
someone for that time (and gas) it adds up quickly (hell I once did a 7 hour
round trip to pick up a $100 game in the middle of winter (was worth it
though... nice game), but if I had to sell it would I even come close to
making back my equivalent in salary? Not even close.
Hell.. when you're paying someone to have to haggle with a guy who comes in
offering you $100 for a galaga that also gets expensive.
While my above comments will hopefully put your prices into perspective for
others who don't run a business it still doesn't answer the reason for the
current price decline...
so...
1. e-bay. This is a *big* reason for the decline... it's now so pervasive
that if someone for what ever reason gets the bug to go buy a vid/pin he'll
likely try to find it on e-bay. If that's the case the prices on there are
competitive with yours (not really if you look at condition, warranty, etc.
but people who are going to buy from e-bay rarely think that way).
2. e-bay. People who have had these in basements collecting dust, now have
a viable market for them where there was none even as little as a few years
ago. This hurts your sales is there is just simply a greater accessible
supply then there was previously.
3. mame. (and the like). Let's face it... $1600 for a true Galaga or $2K
for an Arcade Legends with 40 games... unless you *know* it seems like the
Arcade Legends is the better deal... and let's face it, for *most* people it
probably is.
I'm sure there are other reasons, but as I see it, these are the biggest.
steve
"Todd Tuckey" <tntqu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:csW9f.6369$N73.5792@trnddc04...
Dan Mitchell
wrote:
>Collectors
>will always want to buy, trade and sell games.
I believe it's helpful to differentiate between the arcade
industry, and the arcade collecting community in these discussions.
The collector community seems to be maintaining a good amount of
activity and interest, despite changes. Evolution has occurred, not
extinction =). I can say for myself that I haven't lost much
enthusiasm for coin op collecting in recent times. I really dont
know what to say about the state of retail sales, distribution, and
route operations. Its just not my end of things. I wish todd the
best with everything, and hope things look better in the future.
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Chuk
supply has gone up. Simple business forces. Two, the market has become more
defined as it matures, and prices for games have become more well known. It
makes it very difficult to sell a game for 100-200% above market rate. I
realize that that is what it takes to stay in business as a retailer with
employees, rents, etc. However, with the increase of supply and with many
other people selling games that don't have that overhead, it seems to me
like it will be difficult to compete. As others have pointed out, I don't
believe that just selling classic videos at retail is a viable business
model. Doing what you are doing (parties, etc), is what is needed to
diversify.
"Todd Tuckey" <tntqu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:csW9f.6369$N73.5792@trnddc04...
Tmach...@aol.com
shoping them themselves. That all takes time and money. For them a day
at an auction or all the time on ebay is fun. But when you are doing it
for a living you have to put a price on all of it. Todd prices are high
because he sells great machines. They are done over from top to bottom
so when he sells them they work right. Not a cheap thing to do. You get
what you pay for with Todd. Just the cost of his rent for storage has
got to be insane. The market for new sales is crazy I see sales on ebay
for games maybe $200 more then I buy one from my distributor. $200
profit on a $3000 game is nuts you cant survive on that. What happens
when that game breaks and you have to sevice it, your 200 profit is
gone very quick. As far as putting games out in a restaraunt. First is
is near imposible to get a game in any kind of chain. The time it takes
and people you need to go through is crazy. Then if you do get a
location like Todd said you invest $3000 in a game and collect at the
end of the month and there is $100 in the machine that needs to be
split with the location. Thats 60 months to pay for the game never mind
make a profit, oh yea forgot about the repairs. Touch screen $300
replacement guns $75- $1000. I have been doing this for around 20 years
and it is getting harder and harder. I still love the business. Yes
there is still money to be made but when you think about all the money
you have invested and the time you put in you have to wonder what the
hell am I doing. Yea there will always be collectors but collectors
will not pay enough for someone to support a business. As far as
putting pac man or other classics out. I have a few and I see people
all the time. O WOW I havent played that in 10 years they go up put a
quarter in play one game and then walk away. Not enough to survive on.
The other thing is as time goes on there are less people that are going
to be around when there were days of arcades and games in every pizza
place that want a game that they remember from the childhood. Ted
Mickey Johnson
motorcycles and atvs that are being sold (a lot of models under a $1000).
Thats the problem with hobbies, very rarely does the majority stick with
another forever. I guess its back to just the die hards now.
"Todd Tuckey" <tntqu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:csW9f.6369$N73.5792@trnddc04...
JD
and seeing if they generate added traffic and patrons so that the owner
would be willing to buy the game outright more so than making money from
quarters dropped in the machine. A small area for kids to play in a
resturant is a draw to both parents and their kids when going out for a
meal. Maybe if some resturant owners would be willing to try it for a
couple of months they could see if the cost of game ownership is worth
some sort of added business. Again, just throwing out some ideas. Need
to find ways to take old fixed games and get them recirculated.
MARK
collectors.There will be much more older classics for sale at way lower
prices.With the average home buyer not looking for them as much due to the
multi games.And they will also sell their classics to get more room they
needed.Thats what the multi game will do for the home buyer.The collectors
will do great because of this.The retail market will go down.Thats what i've
been saying all along.
"BWAGNER5150" <wagner_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130910587....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bret Pehrson
> However, quite frankly, looking at TnT's price sheet for games, I have
> to say that I can see why sales ~have~ slowed to only the most popular
> titles. $1399 for an Asteroids? $1399 for a Centipede? $1799 for a
> Galaga?!! LOL! Come on man, your prices on vids are OUTRAGEOUS!! No
> wonder no one is buying them. These are crazy price even for two years
Prices among collectors, auctions, and similar should be considered
WHOLESALE.
Prices at a storefront should be considered RETAIL.
eBay contains WHOLESALE and some RETAIL priced items.
Todd's prices are obviously retail, and are appropriate in my opinion.
Most collectors expect to pay WHOLESALE for any/all games they purchase.
> like amulti-game Arcade Legends in the $2k range. Galagas go on Ebay
> for $600-$800 or so. At the height, they went for $1000-$1200. When
> did they ever go (in any sort of volume) for what TnT is charging?
eBay is *NOT* a price guide for the retail market.
> This hasn't depressed me. Just means that the great classics are a
> little more accessable and the gougers have even less of a footing.
Not gouging at all. Pure economics in the marketplace, plain and simple.
Tmach...@aol.com
kids hanging out playing games. It is very hard to try and talk someone
into putting games into a location and if you are dealing with any kind
of franchise even if the owner want a game 9 out of 10 francheses wont
allow it. The other problem is location owners dont know how to fix
games so they dont want to bother with owning them. Games also need to
be changed out every so often. So if you are buying and selling games
for one location its not worth it.If an operator that knows the
business cant make money how is a location owner going to do it. Thats
one advantage an operator has is he has many locations he can switch
games around in. There are some locations you can still make money in
but like Todd stated There are a lot more $100 a month locations and a
lot less of the $200 a week locations out there. People are just not
putting money into games like they used to. All the game boys and PSPs
out there dont help either. Why put 25 into a machine for a minute
when you can play all day for free. The one thing that still can make
some money are pins and Deluxe games. Pins require more maintanace and
the big games cost way to much 6000 to 10000 each. They get played but
only a realy busy location can make enough to pay for a game like that.
Ted
JD
that are not that popular with collectors then.
Steve Muccione
your absolutely right about this... my next door neighbor owns 6 or so
McDonalds... his kids play in my gameroom all the time with my kids...
he'd LOVE to throw a bunch of vids into his McD's set on free-play but he
can't... not allowed by corporate.
<Tmach...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1130947081....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Steve Muccione
there would only be a few thousand (likely less then a thousand) cabs around
to sell...
you can't spend *any* type of advertising selling single shot cabs for a few
houndred... especially when you don't know what your inventory will be.
you NEED the high production classics in order to survive.. they're the only
ones you can advertise as they're the only ones guaranteed that you can get
ahold of.
"JD" <djl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eo5af.28750$kd.1...@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
lens...@hotmail.com
games. It was kind of odd to see them there even then.
~eric
emai...@yahoo.com
reproduced ones. My fear is that the lower value of games will cause
repro parts to become extict because you can't afford to totally
restore a game with all new artwork if it sells at a loss. And repro
companies can't afford to produce the artwork and sell it for a price
that would be in line with game prices. Kinda a catch 22 and what will
happen is they will stop providing parts. Look for Arcadeshop to feel
the pinch, then others (I hope not but...). That is when the
collectors will really have pain. Face it, those home retail buyers
fed the industry which allowed retailers/collectors to buy parts and
restore games. Take away the final consumer and it will ripple all the
way back. It will be difficult again to find parts to keep our games
running and looking good. Like it was 10 years ago. That is my spin
on this......
JD
Matty-t
the same arena (internet)
If eveyone is so upset about this, do what the pinheads did, and what
every other collector market *has* but we don't seem to have anything
up to date on (as far as I know?) - CREATE A PRICING GUIDE. Get it to
print, and sell it. There is your extra income and your fixed market
all in one.
Now the questions are:
Who's game for this?
OR
Who's perfectly fine with only unloading thier galaga for 250 bucks?
this christmas?
The sky is falling *because* WE *let* it. You, You, You, and YOU!
*points*
1: You could define prices
2: You could boycott ebay
3: You could boycott mame
4: You could hunt down and beat up the multigamers.
5: You could "unionize" with other amusement retailers statewide, and
form a national locator service w/profit sharing and build a virtual
stock database
6: You could write letters to the KLOV people and once they get enough
letters asking to remove or reword the "rare" thing perhaps you could
even advertise on the site for your retail store.. or even send them a
copy of your new "price guide" and they can add a "value" section. Have
them include a description of what a potential buyer can expect from a
unit sold wholesale as opposed to retail, or just include that in your
price guide.
7: post a new game to KLOV: MULTIGAME or MAME or TARGET 12-1 and rant
on and on about how much better the REAL thing is, and how this is
incosistant, or that is inconsistant, etc.
Make phone calls, write letters, outright fight with people instead of
sitting there and taking it. The possibilities are endless.. and as per
the usual conformist american public it's all whine and no show.
Don't shrug your shoulders at a business it's taken years of blood
sweat and tears to raise and go "but what can ya do?" Well.. I don't
know.. who wants to feed thier kids today? You can always fight, or
reinvent yourself. But for gods sakes just don't sit there like you
can't do anything about it.
How do you think everything you face every day started in the first
place? With the power of ONE person.
##################################
BTW, this post was directed at everyone as a whole, and various points
do not apply to any particular person. So it may not make sense to one
or any of you. =)
###################################
- Matt
MARK
--
THANKS.MARK,
MARKLINE VENDING
BUY/SELL/TRADE/VIDEO GAMES
VENDING MACHINES,SLOTS,PINBALLS
OVER 100+CLASSIC VIDEO GAMES IN STOCK,ETC.ETC.
516-678-9671
"Chuk" <ch...@ourcade.com> wrote in message
news:tg2af.5404$sx4....@fe29.usenetserver.com...
MARK
how i see the picture too.You nailed my thoughts exactly
--
THANKS.MARK,
MARKLINE VENDING
BUY/SELL/TRADE/VIDEO GAMES
VENDING MACHINES,SLOTS,PINBALLS
OVER 100+CLASSIC VIDEO GAMES IN STOCK,ETC.ETC.
516-678-9671
<Tmach...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1130939594....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Ron Jr.
when can we expect to see the better pricing? :)
i've seen auction prices posted here and prices still seem normal.
i don't care about the galaga's and pacs, but all the obscure stuff that
most of us would like to have to balance out our collections.
the parts resource bugs me too. right now, im building a new house and
don't have the extra cash for parts.
im selling all my pins except for a mr and mrs pac. i don't have any
personal attachment to the pins so im ok w/ letting them go..
the vids im going to hang on to except for the extra mrs pac, super pac
and centipede.
i think trades will be the only thing we have as collectors to keep
"our" economy right.
ronald
MARK
make your money back with repairs and all.Most operators i know these days
only see a profit from a location when they finally sell the game when it
stops making money.Sad but true.
--
THANKS.MARK,
MARKLINE VENDING
BUY/SELL/TRADE/VIDEO GAMES
VENDING MACHINES,SLOTS,PINBALLS
OVER 100+CLASSIC VIDEO GAMES IN STOCK,ETC.ETC.
516-678-9671
<Tmach...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1130947081....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Max
- laundrymats (think megatouch)
- quickie car service...tires, oil change places (think female clientele,
doing an 'errand', sitting around 20-30 mins.... gee, wouldn't it be nice to
play some centipede or frogger?)
I got hooked on pinball playing in the local sub shop.... wow... I need to
talk to my local sub shop franchise CFO and see if I am on to something!)
Michael
<Tmach...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1130947081....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
MARK
are pretty good because you have a captive audience.And usually a mother
with her kids annoying her while she's trying to get the wash done.So to get
rid of them for a little while she gives the some quarters to play games to
give her a break.Also every Laundromat has a change machine.So they are
easily accessible.Believe me it's hard to come up with an original good idea
or everyone would be doing it.The best location i have ever seen in my years
was a very busy Hospital emergency room waiting area.Especially one with a
Trauma center.The one near me is called Nassau County Medical Center.I think
they changed the name a little.But they have helicopters landing there all
the time.If you have to be in the waiting room expect to wait for hours on
end.Usually all night.They have so many vending machines i couldn't believe
it.I heard they have to fill all of them up twice a day.Even the 2-3 ice
cream machines too.I can only imagine they make thousands every day because
who isn't going to buy a coffee,Gum,Cakes and anything they have if you are
waiting all day or night to see how the person is who you are there for.I've
been there when there was over 150 people in the waiting room at one
time.It's a real zoo.But lets see you get that spot.Not only would you have
to be related to the head of the hospital.But probably grease a hundred
thousand in palms.The good spots in the vending business are like winning
the lotto.And even regular everyday spots are hard to get with all the
competition.I packed that part of the business in after about 10-12 years of
killing myself.It's not the easy sit at home while the machines make money
business that everyone thinks.It happens to be one of the hardest businesses
I've ever been in.Just my thousand cents>:)
--
THANKS.MARK,
MARKLINE VENDING
BUY/SELL/TRADE/VIDEO GAMES
VENDING MACHINES,SLOTS,PINBALLS
OVER 100+CLASSIC VIDEO GAMES IN STOCK,ETC.ETC.
516-678-9671
"Max" <pinbal...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:xVfaf.47999$rE2....@fe10.lga...
spo...@gmail.com
allowed to be auctioned off (remember that BIG freak 2 monitor
machine?) But at the last week's, i swear i saw a few that were being
auctioned. Whats the deal?
Anyway, theres a coffee shop in Philly that has a few dedicated
cocktails (Ms Pac, Galaga, Donkey Kong, and Centipede) These ARE the
tables that people eat, drink, converse, and read off of so these games
get used quite often either for play or ... as a table!!. However, they
are set to free play. The shop owner makes money off of the drinks and
food. The games are there to lure customers IN. And it works, there are
always people in there with drinks and food in hand AND they go back to
buy refills . This is clever, using video games not as the profit, but
to entice customers in to sell the REAL product, coffee and food. You
could also set the game to accept tokens and give the customer 3
complimentay tokens for every purchase, instead of freeplay.
Clay Cowgill
news:1130993634....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> cocktails (Ms Pac, Galaga, Donkey Kong, and Centipede) These ARE the
> tables that people eat, drink, converse, and read off of so these games
> get used quite often either for play or ... as a table!!. However, they
> are set to free play.
Back around ~1987 or so, the dentist I used to go to had an Asteroids
cocktail machine in their lobby which was set on free play. Worked well--
kept the kids entertained and held magazines when not being played.
We've seen all sorts of machines here and there around town-- if there's
electricity, someone has tried to put a game there. ;-) Cafe's, ice cream
shops, comic book stores, record stores... Any place that has people with
some time to kill. Those locations do make (some) money as long as the
machine is cheap enough, but service is the killer and with gas as high as
it is even just mileage is a factor! That $5/day before the split when the
machine first goes in starts to look more like $2.50/day before the split
after a month goes by-- and then something like a CRT craps out of you have
a nasty break-in and you spend $200 in parts to fix it (if you do the work
yourself)... All the sudden you're taking another six months just to break
even!
-Clay
Todd Tuckey
collecting market will level out but not stop...I would NEVER get rid of my
collection personally...Remember, I started in as a vendor in 1979, entered
home sales in 1984, but did not start COLLECTING until I had my children in
1996....all those years I was not interested in actually KEEPING the
games---I even had and sold two of the cabarets I am now searching for
(Pleides and Food Fight)....I love looking at and playing my games...and I
predict there will be collectors who stop and new ones that will start
collecting, just like baseball cards. The RETAIL end of both businesses
will fluctuate though...but this is the FIRST time I have noticed a RETAIL
change in the coin op part, and that's what worries me! Thanks again for
all the private and public emails though!! Todd from TNT Amusements
Tim O
<home.m...@verizon.net> wrote:
[snip]
>3. mame. (and the like). Let's face it... $1600 for a true Galaga or $2K
>for an Arcade Legends with 40 games... unless you *know* it seems like the
>Arcade Legends is the better deal... and let's face it, for *most* people it
>probably is.
>
>I'm sure there are other reasons, but as I see it, these are the biggest.
>
>steve
While I wouldn't disagree that MAME hasn't had some effect on the sale
of dedicated machines, there might also be an upshot to it... It's
bringing people in that otherwise might not be buying anything.
I have space for about 3 machines, since my computer room also has to
serve as my gameroom. The first thing was a MAME cab, just as a quick
way to get a fix on some of the older stuff.
I wouldn't have ever initially paid a grand for a game like Galaga,
because I wouldn't play it enough to be worth that to me. However, I
did buy a bunch of parts from Todd to build the MAME cabinet... A
clean but mostly gutted Bally cab for 50 bucks (that might have just
ended up in the dumpster), bought an old coin door and cleaned it up
for $40 -that is a lot for a coin door, but it was worth it because
it's what I wanted, and I recently just bought some NOS Suzo inductive
joysticks off him for a bartop multigame I'm going to build.
The stuff I've purchased from Todd and various suppliers like Tornado
Terry (multiple trackballs, sticks, dozens of buttons, etc) pretty
much match the price I would have paid for that dedicated machine.
You can cater to the homebuilder/MAME market and make money in parts
and art. There are guys in the arcadecontrols.com forum that are
spending thousands on MAME cabs. Its enough that there are many
businesses like Ultimarc thriving on that market alone.
Todd Tuckey
"Thanks to all for your comments and support....The
Steve Muccione
How many started off with regular cabs and went to Mame?
People have commented often that Mame is a good entry to *real* collecting..
but is it truely? Has anyone ever really taken an accurate pole and found
out if people who have bought/built Mame cabs later go and buy dedicated
machines... and is there a difference betwen the people who BUY Mame cabs
vs. the people who BUILD Mame cabs (my gut tells me there is, with the later
being more inclined to buy a dedicated cab).
steve
"Tim O" <tim...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rc7lm1t8h05pm4ja4...@4ax.com...
Baraka
After that, I learned mame and built a mame cab. I'd never get rid of
my mame cab. Then got into some classics even thought I have mame. Kept
the classics and now have moved onto pins. Pins is where I've been for
a while now. No more vids for me aside from a few left overs. I'm out
of the vid hobby at this time.
John
Tim O
<home.m...@verizon.net> wrote:
>Actually I wonder how many Mamer's ever buy a regular cab...
>
>How many started off with regular cabs and went to Mame?
>
>People have commented often that Mame is a good entry to *real* collecting..
>but is it truely? Has anyone ever really taken an accurate pole and found
>out if people who have bought/built Mame cabs later go and buy dedicated
>machines... and is there a difference betwen the people who BUY Mame cabs
>vs. the people who BUILD Mame cabs (my gut tells me there is, with the later
>being more inclined to buy a dedicated cab).
>
>steve
Can't call it a poll, but I can tell you right now that I have a MAME
cab and I'm planning on getting two dedicated machines, a Defender and
either a Moon Patrol or Robotron.
I know you'll probably say that "planning" and doing are two separate
things, so I'm not a collector yet, but I just lost a bid on a
complete but non-working Defender.
I set reasonable price cap considering the potential problems, and it
went over that price. I also didn't mangle the old cab I used to make
the MAME machine if it matters. I boxed up the original boards, power
supply, controls and control panel and made a new CP using the old one
as a template. It could be restored to original condition should I
ever to desire to do that. There are MAME heathens who respect games.
LOL.
Tim
Mickey Johnson
cabinet).
That led to a bunch more vids (just bought a dragons lair this year finally)
and pins.
I am now the 'guy that fixes pins and vids' in my area.
Mickey
"Steve Muccione" <home.m...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:qbidnVAiU6L...@comcast.com...
BrentRadio
Which cab did you mame?
Brent
ArcadeLover
have it working but not finished and I also now own 9 more "real" games I
built mame for a few "classics" Defender, Stargate, Galaga, ect BUT I tried
to play Sinistar on it and it was just not quite right so I bought one. It
just kept going from there. I am right now trying to get my Firefox running
With many thanks and help from a few really good people here I just might
get it done well working anyways.
I really do like mame as it is a IMHO great way to start a collection. You
can poke and play and find the games you really like to play. Then take the
plunge and buy those.
And there is also that added bonus that you have like 5000 games at your
fingertips ain't bad eather. Granted if you just put mame on a pc and use
all PC parts the games will not look exactly as they should VGA Vs. CGA and
all that but pus a Arcade monitor in the mix and I think they look and play
just like the games are supposed to. (Mostly)
Granded to do MAME right you need 2 cabs or a rotating monitor as there is
NO way a vertical game looks right in a Horizontal cab, but you can't have
it all all the time.
Just the 2 cents of a newbie
"Mickey Johnson" <mick...@derbyworks.net> wrote in message
news:11mll72...@news.supernews.com...
Tim O
Its a Bally/Midway Power Drive. Same 1986 era cab used on Rampage.
The marquee and alternate side are image on KLOV are from my actual
machine. My claim to fame. LOL
http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=P&game_id=9100
Tim