Anything other than screen printed?
mudmantim
Is it that it fades, isn't durable, wrong colors?
Tonight I got a contact that could print me up anything at his shop
with their top-of-the-line HP printer ($15,000), that would look
perfect. They also laminate it so that it is more durable.
They also have someone who does screen printing, but I wouldn't be able
to get it done for just cost that way.
Besides saying that it is "crap", what is hated about it?
Thanks.
-Tim
prOk
1. the Laminate ruins the 'original' look and finish of the art and the
laminate just looks cheap.
2. Inkjet art tends to fade/bleed if not laminated (see #1)
3. Colors tend to be inaccurate as each printer is somewhat different than
the next.
4. Blacks are not true blacks, rather more blueblack.
5. Dithering of solid colors.
6. Screen print art has visible 'layering', something people looking for a
more original look notice.
7. Inkjet art is generally not die cut.
8. Quality varies greatly, one piece has no print head lines, while the next
one does.
9. Inkjets (yes, even good ones) can only approximate the vivid colors that
a pantone ink can deliver in screen printing.
That's what I come up with off the top of my head.
Having a good printer in no way makes automatically good art. When you have
an inconsistent variable in a printer, you have to be a good qualified
artist and know your color to even come close to managing it properly when
using inkjets. Screen prints on the other hand are much much more precise
from print to print.
/b
"mudmantim" <mudm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130371589....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
phoenixarcade.com
although inkjets are constantly improving, theres no way this guy can
print perfectly. if he claims so, make him put in writing with a money
back guarantee. bet he wont do it!
Keith in NJ
i'm very satisfied with the prints i've had done so far.
i've had multiple inkjet prints from a company in maryland using outdoor
sign printing inkjets printed on adhesive vinyl with solvent inks. no need
for lamination on these as they're made to survive years of outdoor use.
insist on solvent inks. the blacks on the prints i get are very very black
and actually have a visible layering which i found odd but you could
definitely tell there was heavy ink coverage.
print at the highest resolution the printer will print at and normally color
dithering will be greatly reduced.
i don't have any close ups of the artwork not did I have original art to
match this too but once again here's my mini ms pac inkject artwork.
3m adhesive vinyl, no lamination.
http://www.keithcorcoran.com/arcade/minimspac/
the art wasn't die cut.. i laid it all out so I got maximum amount of art in
the least amount of space (they charge by the sq. foot.) then i just used an
x-acto knife to cut everything out.
(there is lamination available that has a textured feel like NOS CPOs. just
haven't found out what the name of it is yet)
"phoenixarcade.com" <azarca...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1130374392....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
mudmantim
Actually, he is my brother-in-law and he runs his uncles custom CNC
router shop. And he says they can make just about anything. I dropped
him off a Ms Pac cabinet tonight and he said that is nothing, won't
take long at all.
He is the one who does all the computer work to get the router to do
its thing.
He offered the printing, but if I wanted screen printing they have a
company that they send out that work to. I would have to pay to have
them do it.
Right now, he would do up whatever I needed for free as long as I do a
bit of drywall work at his house. After the drywall work is done, all
it will cost is materials.
I will have to mention that to him about the printer costing more like
$50k.
Thanks.
-Tim
mudmantim
I really like that cabinet. Do you have plans for it?
My brother-in-law can probably downsize the plans after he gets them
done, I really don't know.
-Tim
MARK
"mudmantim" <mudm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130371589....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
phoenixarcade.com
decals look horrible.
Bret Pehrson
> What exactly is wrong with anything that isn't screen printed?
>
> Is it that it fades, isn't durable, wrong colors?
Screen printing uses solid colors that can be matched (exactly in most
cases) to the original color. The palette of available colors is infinite.
Inkjet printers can only approximate colors by dithering, commonly
composed of 3 colors (cyan, magenta, and yellow) and black. The palette
of available colors is something around 16 million (typically).
Even though 16 million may sound like a lot, compared to infinite, it is
nothing, and it is quite surprising on how many colors *cannot* be
exactly matched w/ an inkjet.
The main reason that inkjet has a bad name is that there have (and are)
a lot of people/companies that want to maximize their profit by selling
low quality (read: cheap inkjet, cheap materials, little/no retouching
effort on the artwork, no die-cutting, etc.) at prices only slightly
less than a quality product.
MaximRecoil
decals look horrible."
There is no way that you can make an accurate judgment call from those
grainy low resolution pictures. That reminds me of when my brother got
a new stereo and was telling me over the phone from across the country
how great it sounded. Then he turned it on and said, "Hear that?
Doesn't that sound good?" Well, I'm sure it did but on my end, any and
all audio, even if it originated from a live AC/DC concert, is going to
be reduced to the weakest link, i.e. a narrow frequency range, very
little amplification and a tiny speaker in the phone.
But anyway, I was at your site a while ago and it looks like you do
good work. That doesn't help me though because you have nothing for
Punch-Out or Super Punch-Out cabinets. Why is it like pulling teeth
trying to get parts for those machines? The only CPO I have found for a
Punch-Out is from classicarcadegrafix.com, and that looks like it is on
the same textured material that they use for everything else, which is
wrong for a Punch-Out CPO, which should be completely smooth. I don't
know if they silk screen or use an inkjet either. I see a lot of places
with Punch-Out sideart but they usually aren't giving a lot of details
about their printing process. I don't think I have come across the
"Super" decal for an SPO machine anywhere. I have 1 NOS one, but I need
two.
Your site had me convinced, but then there was nothing I could use :|
Keith in NJ
www.jakobud.com and winged the monitor mounting since the original angle
wasn't all that great at the smaller size.
the plans there seem pretty detailed.. i'm sure he could resize them.
keith
"mudmantim" <mudm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130375921.6...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Keith in NJ
no offense taken but i guess i'd have to disagree...
certainly if you're a screen printing purist, anything other then screen
printing will look horrible.
being a graphic designer for the last 8-10 years i'd have to say the print
quality i get from the company i am using is some of the best i've seen.
i'd be interesed in knowing what specifically is 'horrible' about them.
again, i didn't have original artwork to color match so i color matched the
artwork i sent to them to the paint i used for the cabinet. i used only my
semi-calibrated monitor as a guide and not my pantone book (which probably
would have been a better idea but i can never find it when i need it).
k
"phoenixarcade.com" <azarca...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1130379664.2...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
wadel...@hotmail.com
1) To make an accurate reproduction of something that was originally
screen printed, the reproduction should also be screen printed.
2) Many pieces of quality screen printed artwork ARE available, and
poor quality inkjet copies are being sold at just a small discount
compared to the quality screen printed versions. This upsets a lot of
people because these companies are essentially taking advantage of
people who don't know the difference.
3) Inkjet printers can't reproduce certain colors, such as
flourescents.
4) There are a HUGE number of "shady" inkjet reproduction artwork
companies on the net, with *wildy* varying quality of input artwork,
printing, cutting, etc.
All that said, a good operator with a good printer and good input files
can make a quite nice product using inkjets. If no other reproductions
are available, this is the only option.
Here are some examples that I had my brother print up for me. There
have NEVER been any lines from clogged inkjet heads, the colors have
always been a perfect match to those in the input files, no dithering
can be seen, the black is truly black, etc. The quality is
outstanding. However, they are no match for the screenprinted
reproductions, which I use whenever available (these were just used as
posters).
These examples are of some artwork that most of us are familiar with:
http://webpages.charter.net/wadelanham/wgalaga2.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/wadelanham/wgalaga3.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/wadelanham/wmariobros1.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/wadelanham/wmariobros2.jpg
Wade
mudmantim
I take it that there is is the "screen printing is the only way to go
people" and the "inkjet will work with me, since the artwork isn't
available screen printed" people.
Keith, thanks for the link.
Wade, those pictures do look nice and more like posters. I guess they
would satisfy someone who only likes screen printing if they were on
different paper.
Brian, wouldn't screen printed artwork change the whole look if the
cabinet was originally painted? So, wouldn't inkjet just be something
different still?
Darin, you can't make a true judgement, since you only do screen
printing. Like the boss at GM saying that Ford vehicles aren't any
good. He would never say that Fords are good quality, ours are just a
little better.
I would love to only get true artwork, screen printed perfect on nice
thick stickers, but sometimes you can't get it that way.
What is involved in screen printing? How much money does it cost to
start a small screen printing set-up to do small artwork, marquees,
cpo's, etc.?
Is there a web-site to talk me away from this, by showing how it's
done? Or a book that explains stuff in a bit more detail?
I heard a lot of good points.
My brother-in-law prints out outdoor type sticker banners that stand
the test of time. They do a lot of commercial work and never had
complaints. But, every once in a while they have someone that insists
on screen printing, so they send that work out to another company to
have that done.
They can do anything, only real difference, I only have to pay for
materials at my brother-in-laws place and I would have to pay for
labor, materials, etc., at the other place. A couple bucks vs. a
couple hundred bucks is a big difference.
Thanks.
-Tim
Bret Pehrson
> Bret, how many colors does screen printing start with?
Screen printing uses pigment inks -- they can order them in virtually
any color needed.
Screen printing can use any number of colors, from 1 to whatever
(probably some practical limit). But with each additional color, you
are essentially duplicating the process each time, that is why more
color-intensive screens typically cost more.
There are sites on the web that document the processes of screen
printing, and it is pretty quick to see that it is a fairly involved
process, and makes it easier to understand why screening is so much more
expensive than inkjetting.
> I take it that there is is the "screen printing is the only way to go
> people" and the "inkjet will work with me, since the artwork isn't
> available screen printed" people.
Back in the day, screening was the only option available, so that is
what the mfr's used for their original art. Inkjet printers didn't
become readily available until the late 80's, after the vid game crash.
If you want something as close to original as possible, then screening
is the way to go. However, there are a lot of projects that just won't
ever be done because of the setup costs, therefore inkjetting may be a
viable option for some.
> What is involved in screen printing? How much money does it cost to
> start a small screen printing set-up to do small artwork, marquees,
> cpo's, etc.?
Plain and simple, you would probably never recoup your initial
investment just doing arcade-related items, there just isn't enough of a
market.
Remember, that even if you have all the equipment gratis, you still have
to deal w/ the raw materials (in low quantities -> very expensive or the
suppliers simply won't deal w/ you).
A (quality) typical CPO print involves at least the following:
- acquisition of original artwork in decent/NOS condition
- scanning of artwork and (many) hours of touchup by experienced
artist, or in some cases, starting from scratch
- color matching
- printing (typically vinyl substrate)
- application of adhesive backing
- lamination of front
- specification of die cut blades, ordering
- die cutting
etc.
All of that adds up to a lot of up-front costs before you sell your
first piece.
> Is there a web-site to talk me away from this, by showing how it's
> done? Or a book that explains stuff in a bit more detail?
Start here:
http://www.pneac.org/printprocesses/screen/
> I heard a lot of good points.
> My brother-in-law prints out outdoor type sticker banners that stand
> the test of time. They do a lot of commercial work and never had
> complaints. But, every once in a while they have someone that insists
> on screen printing, so they send that work out to another company to
> have that done.
Inkjet printing is incredible technology that definitely has its place.
As I stated in some previous post, typical arcade inkjetters are in it
strictly for the $$, not the quality, in that they:
- usually simply scan and print the artwork, w/ little or no touch-up
- don't have dies made up, don't die cut
- may use sub-standard, low-quality, cheap materials
etc.
BWAGNER5150
seen use sub-par adhesive. Not many of them use the good stuff like
3M, etc. Believe me...from personal experience, it'll start to loose
adhesion around the edges over time.
Inkjet stuff is okay if it's the only stuff out there for a given game.
But, if it's injet vs. original silkscreen on the same art, there's no
comparision.
Ben
mudmantim
printing that would work for cabinets. One thing that always seems to
pop up is the fact that they only guarantee their prints from fading
for 12 months. That doesn't seem good at all. Even the guys that do
printing on vinyl type paper with 3M adhesive for outside use only
guarantee for 12 months.
A recent post on here had this link:
http://www.retroblast.com/reviews/classicarcade.html
And it says that they give a 50 year no fade guarantee. The author
seemed impressed with them.
I will have to get more details from my brother-in-law on what they do.
-Tim