Tech: Joust
F*&k Milk, Got Beer??
play a two-player game, I don't know how long this problem has existed-
but here it goes.
The yellow stick controls both birds simultaneously. Switch tests in
diagnostic mode tell me that the controls are independent. Also, high-
score entry is independent.
My guts tell me it could be the power supply (I did get a 1-3-1 not too
long ago, but rebooted and it disappeared.) The sound card was also
misbehaving a bit not too long ago (Sound would cut-out, and for a
while would not produce sound at all (even with the test button pressed).
This sound prblem has also disappeared. Again, my guts tell me it's the
power supply.
No, I haven't measured voltages yet. But I thought it wierd that the
second set of controls would not control its bird, but they do everything
else correctly.
Any ideas? And has anyone else ever seen this type of problem before?
(I also have a working Sinistar UR, so I can MAYBE swap some RAM and
see if that's the problem, but I'd rather not.)
Thanks in advance.
-Doug
--
"The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods
to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it!" - Grandpa Simpson
METS = My Entire Team Sucks GO RANGERS!!!!
andy r
switch settings that could do this either. There are separate inputs into
the board used for buttons/joysticks in the set. My best guess is some
wierd chip malfunction on an input chip.
Andy
F*&k Milk, Got Beer??
: I seem to have an interesting problem with my Joust UR.
: The yellow stick controls both birds simultaneously. Switch tests in
: diagnostic mode tell me that the controls are independent. Also, high-
: score entry is independent.
Jeff, Mike, Andy - Thanks for the responses.
I broke out the tools last night to see what was wrong with it. I
measured voltages - seemed normal to me.
Then looked at the riibbon between the interface board and the
CPU board - a wire on was exposed (#4) and was not making contact.
I checked the other wires in the ribbon, and all were good except #4.
So I thought, hey, that's the problem? Broke out the schematics, and
realized that Wire #4 is not used on the IF board.
Okay, now what. Well, let me just put the thing back together and
see what happens.
Sure enough, the birds are no longer joined by the movement of player 1
controls. Must have been a not-perfect connection. I guess I should
practice what I preach when it comes to re-seating connectors and things.
Barry Beadman
set the high score. Blue works fine and both play fine. Change CPU brd
fixed it. There ended that particular troubleshooting session. I have to
still fix the brd eventually. Ideas graciously accepted.
"F*&k Milk, Got Beer??" wrote:
>
> I seem to have an interesting problem with my Joust UR. Since I rarely
> play a two-player game, I don't know how long this problem has existed-
> but here it goes.
>
> The yellow stick controls both birds simultaneously. Switch tests in
> diagnostic mode tell me that the controls are independent. Also, high-
> score entry is independent.
>
> My guts tell me it could be the power supply (I did get a 1-3-1 not too
> long ago, but rebooted and it disappeared.) The sound card was also
> misbehaving a bit not too long ago (Sound would cut-out, and for a
> while would not produce sound at all (even with the test button pressed).
> This sound prblem has also disappeared. Again, my guts tell me it's the
> power supply.
>
> No, I haven't measured voltages yet. But I thought it wierd that the
> second set of controls would not control its bird, but they do everything
> else correctly.
>
> Any ideas? And has anyone else ever seen this type of problem before?
>
> (I also have a working Sinistar UR, so I can MAYBE swap some RAM and
> see if that's the problem, but I'd rather not.)
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
Default_User
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please e-mail me at
stratocr...@yahoo.com
Here's the problem:
The game appears to be resetting. I will turn it on and the checks are
ok. But then the screen comes up with a bazillion colors and it starts
over again. Sometimes it will be stuck at this multi-color screen. Other
times I can get it to play. Once it is playing it works great until I
turn it off and on again. When I'm in the setting screens it works fine
most of the time, but not all. It will sometimes just jump to the
multi-color screen with no rhyme or reason. I've checked the power and
all looks good there and I've reset the plugs. Any ideas?
Thanks so much,
Christopher
F*&k Milk, Got Beer??
: Here's the problem:
: The game appears to be resetting. I will turn it on and the checks are
: ok. But then the screen comes up with a bazillion colors and it starts
: over again.
You said power was good. What about the watchdog circuit?? I have
read thsi circuit will reset the game if a databit is not written to a
location in a given period of time. THis could be your problem.
Default_User
My game keeps displaying this message when I power it up. I then reset
it and can play it. Sometimes it just keeps resetting itself. When that
happens it never stops. I have to turn it off and start over. I then get
this message:
All tests indicate all systems go
then
High score table reset
Bookkeeping totals cleared
Adjustment failure
Restore Factory settings by opening front door or table top and turning
game on and off.
Any help would be greatly appreciated! I've changed out the batteries
and tested the power and all looks good. The 12v is a little high.
Please e-mail me at stratocr...@yahoo.com.
Thanks!
Christopher
MacMan
Cheers
MacMan
In article <37FCED97...@boeing.com>, Default_User
<FirstName....@boeing.com> wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please e-mail me at
> stratocr...@yahoo.com
>
> Here's the problem:
>
> The game appears to be resetting. I will turn it on and the checks are
> ok. But then the screen comes up with a bazillion colors and it starts
> over again. Sometimes it will be stuck at this multi-color screen. Other
> times I can get it to play. Once it is playing it works great until I
> turn it off and on again. When I'm in the setting screens it works fine
> most of the time, but not all. It will sometimes just jump to the
> multi-color screen with no rhyme or reason. I've checked the power and
> all looks good there and I've reset the plugs. Any ideas?
>
> Thanks so much,
>
> Christopher
--
*Spam filter in effect - reply to ogopogo(at)zip.com.au
John Robertson
wires from the transformer have toasted the connector. If the white
nylon plastic has turned brown or black you need to repair/replace the
pins for these connections. Or you could solder the wires directly to
the power supply, please be careful to do a neat job. Someone with
soldering experience would be best to help here.
Take a look at the connector for the pass regulator transistor
(mounted on a black finned heatsink), those might also be overheated.
John :-#)#
On Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:59:35 GMT, Default_User
<FirstName....@boeing.com> wrote:
>Hey guys,
>
>Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please e-mail me at
>stratocr...@yahoo.com
>
>Here's the problem:
>
>The game appears to be resetting. I will turn it on and the checks are
>ok. But then the screen comes up with a bazillion colors and it starts
>over again. Sometimes it will be stuck at this multi-color screen. Other
>times I can get it to play. Once it is playing it works great until I
>turn it off and on again. When I'm in the setting screens it works fine
>most of the time, but not all. It will sometimes just jump to the
>multi-color screen with no rhyme or reason. I've checked the power and
>all looks good there and I've reset the plugs. Any ideas?
>
>Thanks so much,
>
>Christopher
(Please post followups or tech enquires to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
mailto:j...@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
Bob Roberts
>
> Check the power supply connectors. I think you will find that the
> wires from the transformer have toasted the connector. If the white
> nylon plastic has turned brown or black you need to repair/replace the
> pins for these connections.
> Or you could solder the wires directly to
> the power supply, please be careful to do a neat job. Someone with
> soldering experience would be best to help here.
Jeez John.... This really cuts across my grain. I hate those
pseudo-fixes when they come into the shop. Wires soldered to
those poor helpless pcbs :( There is no need to do that.
Let's take this case.... Say he's a newbie that got the game for
$20 at auction & doesn't have cent to spare on the power supply,
and incidently, I concur with your diagnosis, just not the treatment,
and he wants to get it up & running....doesn't everyone with a new
toy :)
He can do 2 things to effect the repair of the overheated header/
housing. First, in any linear PS repair, pull the pcb out & flow
a little new solder into the header pins to soften the old solder
for removal & then remove & resolder a couple at time until he
arrives at the burnt pin in the xformer input header. At this
point, he can heat this pin while applying a pulling pressure
on it with a pair of needle nose pliers. It will come right out
of the header...cool it...Scotch-Brite it....flip it over the opposite
way from which it came out & reinsert it into it's parking space.
Next he can pull the pin/terminal from the housing...open it for
more tension & Scotch-Brite it...reinsert & check for any other
burnt or loose tension pins & repair them the same way.
He's now got good continuity all way around & without tagging
to the pcb. If the pin is real bad to start with, it can be
swapped with a good one that does not pull the amperage thru
it that the original did or even an unused one that should be
like new. If the housing pin is flakey & doesn't look like it
will survive, there are blank tension pins in most game housings
in unused positions. One of these can easily be removed & transferred
to the needed position.
The pcb defense rests......
> Take a look at the connector for the pass regulator transistor
> (mounted on a black finned heatsink), those might also be overheated.
>
> John :-#)#
> On Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:59:35 GMT, Default_User
> <FirstName....@boeing.com> wrote:
>
> >Hey guys,
> >
> >Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please e-mail me at
> >stratocr...@yahoo.com
> >
> >Here's the problem:
> >
> >The game appears to be resetting. I will turn it on and the checks are
> >ok. But then the screen comes up with a bazillion colors and it starts
> >over again. Sometimes it will be stuck at this multi-color screen. Other
> >times I can get it to play. Once it is playing it works great until I
> >turn it off and on again. When I'm in the setting screens it works fine
> >most of the time, but not all. It will sometimes just jump to the
> >multi-color screen with no rhyme or reason. I've checked the power and
> >all looks good there and I've reset the plugs. Any ideas?
> >
> >Thanks so much,
> >
> >Christopher
>
> (Please post followups or tech enquires to the newsgroup)
> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
> mailto:j...@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com
> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
--
Big Bear <bob...@bellsouth.net> Thanks The Real Bob Roberts™
For parts http://personal.msy.bellsouth.net/~bob147
For help http://www.dameon.net/BBBB
John Robertson
board on a Williams power supply. But tI have just about given up on
them altogether now that I find switching computer supplies that we
wire up to simply replace them. Those old linear supplies have too
many nasty failure modes to consider still running in a collectable
game like the WMS ones. However it is nice to leave the original
supply in the bottom of the cabinet for the sake of authenticity. I
just got another load of computer switchers in to convert to WMS
supplies. We solder on a long Molex style pin connector to the
switcher so one can simply unplug the old linear supply and plug the
switcher in place. No more fried 4116's! $50US for now.
Otherwise I would use Molex Trifurcon pins for the transformer leads,
and replace the pins on the linear supply, they have overheated and
are not going to be reliable in the long run. There are some nice
square face pins from molex that have a better contact face area for
reduced resistance, and coupled with Dow's #4 silicon lube one should
get long life from the linear.
John :-#)#
On Sat, 09 Oct 1999 03:09:47 -0500, Bob Roberts <bob...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Bob Roberts
>
> I personally do not nor does my shop solder the wires to the regulator
> board on a Williams power supply.
But you keep telling collectors that they can do this...at least 5
times that I can remember...& this is what I don't see!
Why would you tell others to do what you would not do?
> But tI have just about given up on
> them altogether now that I find switching computer supplies that we
> wire up to simply replace them. Those old linear supplies have too
> many nasty failure modes to consider still running in a collectable
> game like the WMS ones.
Personally, although I have agreed with you on many things over the
years, this is not one of them. I feel....no...I know they are a great
linear power supply if taken care of once every 10 years...not too
much to ask for...and I have one particular op who still has
aproximately 50 of those WMs linear supplies in route games running
up to the latest kits, with no troubles reported for at least 3 years
now, with some of them being in the field since 1987...untouched.
> However it is nice to leave the original
> supply in the bottom of the cabinet for the sake of authenticity.
It should be there for it's 6.3VAC & 27VDC outputs as well, if it's
authenticity you seek. Of course, you can tie back the coin lockouts,
or remove them, and you can mount a single fuse block in the bottom
& reroute the 6.3VAC for coin door lights, but then it's integrity
has been breached. Granted, this is very undoable, so no foul.
BTW: Some techs ran these coin door lamps to the switchers, a bad
practice, since the coin door lamp sockets are prone to shorting,
giving yet one more excuse for switchers to kick off or over.
In this shop, any found like that were either rerouted & fused
from existing lines, or if no supply was available, a small 6.3VAC
xformer with fused output was added.
If you simply have to use the switcher, use the -5 volts & put
a ¼ to ½ amp fuse in line.
> I
> just got another load of computer switchers in to convert to WMS
> supplies. We solder on a long Molex style pin connector to the
> switcher so one can simply unplug the old linear supply and plug the
> switcher in place. No more fried 4116's! $50US for now.
The same practice that I have initiated since the early 1980s
starting with the Hi-trons & Cetas thru to today's Peter Chou
switchers. MHO is well known concerning the PC PSs but everyone
has a different opinion when it comes to them. I know that I
made some 2000 crossover harnesses from OEM PC-type PSs to
Peter Chou std switchers starting around 1990, and don't have
a single one left.
Although I sell the PS conversion kits, I would not say you will
not experience a fried ram, since they are the most common
failure in electronics today & most often run by a switcher.
My thoughts are that a ram field of 2 dozen surely increases
the possibility or probability.
I advocate repairing & leaving the OEM WMs linear intact
in the cab to have a second source of power by merely swapping
the 4P2 connector to the desired supply & to preserve the integrity
of the classic games. My opinion is such that the game should
be run from the switcher, providing cool power & more protection,
while at the same time preserving the OEM for posterity's sake.
> Otherwise I would use Molex Trifurcon pins for the transformer leads,
> and replace the pins on the linear supply, they have overheated and
> are not going to be reliable in the long run. There are some nice
> square face pins from molex that have a better contact face area for
> reduced resistance, and coupled with Dow's #4 silicon lube one should
> get long life from the linear.
This is good advice on many things, but I have to disagree again John,
in this scenario. I guess that is what makes the world revolve & prosper
as it does....what a dull garden of eden we would have if everyone
was of the same mind.
I think that the use of Trifurcon in vertically mounted xformer pcbs,
e.g., Bally pins, is perfectly acceptable, but as this same usage
shows us by way of broken ears in the backbox, I think them to be
a hazzard in the horizontally mounted PS pcbs found in the bottoms
of WMs vids. I cite this same reason as a preclusive dust, dirt,
paper bits, orts (if on location, no collector would allow this
to happen) and other items that would befall this silicon magnet.
> John :-#)#
Although your reply takes on a flavor of a commercial,
as opposed to a reply to the scenario I posted of a poor broke
newbie trying to effect a repair without a dime to his name, I
won't hold it against you....(:buddy:)....as it does contain a
plethora of useful lore & I am guilty of doing the same myself
at times.
Happy Gaming.......
PostScript: I'm elated that your shop does not practice the dreaded
solder to the pcb direct method.
Have a happy Thanksgiving John & I hope you celebrate another 25
or more of them.
> On Sat, 09 Oct 1999 03:09:47 -0500, Bob Roberts <bob...@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>
> >John Robertson wrote:
> >> Or you could solder the wires directly to
> >> the power supply, please be careful to do a neat job.
> >Jeez John.... This really cuts across my grain. I hate those
--
Stef van Dijk
people have noted that their games suffer from frequent factory settings
resets after a switching power supply has been installed. I know of at least
one or two people who have actually gone back to using the original linear
as this problem became too annoying to them.
Stef van Dijk
Chapel Hill, NC
Dave Langley
I too experience this problem ... I am in the process of going back to
linear in my defender cab ... I have obtained a working defender and
Sinistar PSU for this purpose ...
If anyone can comment on a solution to allow me to use a switcher AND
keep all my settings forever let me know!!!!
Dave Langley
Williams Documents + More On-line!!
http://freespace.virgin.net/chad.gray/DaveLangley/index2.htm