For Sale: Hardcopies of Original Source Code for Vectrex Internal ROM & Minestorm
jasonbar
I revisited the former GCE employee who sold me the prototypes that I
recently sold, and I picked up 2 more goodies that I wish to sell:
binders of hardcopies of the original source code for the Vectrex
internal ROM & Minestorm.
I scanned a handful of pages:
http://s242.photobucket.com/albums/ff97/infernolab/forsale/VectrexSourceCode/?start=all
1 - A binder with a printout of the original source code for Exec.asm,
the 4k internal ROM for the Vectrex, written by Mark Indictor, 129
pages long. The 1st page includes the following text: "VECTREX
EXECUTIVE REV. B, C:EXEC.ASM", "REV: B, DATE: 12/28/82, PROG: JJH,
COMMENT(S): TITLE PAGES CAN NOW BE ABORTED, DOCUMENTATION CHANGES",
"REV: A, DATE: 09/29/82, PROG: JJH, COMMENT(S): LABEL AND
DOCUMENTATION CHANGES", "REV: -, DATE: 05/16/82, PROG: RELEASE FROM
WESTERN TECHNOLOGIES". The left column shows the compiled machine
code. Next to that is the assembly language. Next to that, on the
right, is comments. This printout is said to be an actual copy
printed & used at GCE. Indeed, it is printed on tractor feed paper
with a dot matrix printer, so that seems to be a plausible claim.
At the end is a fair-quality photocopy of the AY-3-8910/8912
Programmable Sound Generator Data Manual, 56 pages long.
This printout is in a brown 3-ring binder that says "Digital Research"
& has a sticker over that with "VECTREX EXECUTIVE" handwritten on
it. A little about Digital Research:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Research
2 - A binder with a printout of the original source code for the built-
in version of Minestorm, written by Mark Indictor. This is 67 pages
long. The 1st page includes the following text: "SOURCE FILE NAME:
MSA2.ASM", "REV: A, DATE: MM/DD/YY, PROG: JJH, COMMENTS: MODIFIED TO
REFLECT 'EXECUTIVE' REV. A CHANGES", "REV: -, DATE: 05/16/82, PROG:
RELEASE FROM WESTERN TECHNOLOGIES". The left column shows the
compiled machine code. Next to that is the assembly language. Next
to that, on the right, is comments. This printout appears to be made
by an inkjet printer on individual computer paper, supposedly printed
about 12 years ago. Therefore, this actual copy was probably not
actually present at GCE or handled by original employees in the
Vectrex offices.
At the end is a fair-quality photocopy of the Vectrex HP-3000 Service
Manual (same as available here: www.playvectrex.com/shoptalk/vecman.pdf
).
This printout is in a beige 3-ring binder that says "VECTOR: Vector
Graphic, Inc." A little about Vector Graphic Inc:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_Graphic
As before, these are both for sale & I'd like to entertain offers via
rgv & a couple of video game forums. After my experience with selling
the prototypes recently, if I don't get any attractive offers through
these channels, I will probably put these on eBay.
Opening asking price: $400
Thanks,
-Jason
![[HCI]Mara'akate's profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVXSxtzftQGNpYQUAx5XQYP6e9vaRdQAeuF_dBbKvjlvEU2TnY=s40-c)
[HCI]Mara'akate
> Howdy-
>
> I revisited the former GCE employee who sold me the prototypes that I
> recently sold, and I picked up 2 more goodies that I wish to sell:
> binders of hardcopies of the original source code for the Vectrex
> internal ROM & Minestorm.
>
Is this guy aware you're selling these goods? Shouldn't he be selling
them on here?
jasonbar
Thank you for your concern--a valid question.
He's used eBay before & sold Vectrex items on the internet before. He
chose to post an ad to craigslist & sell these items for cash. He
told me what he though he or I could get for them on eBay & said I was
saving him the trouble of putting them on eBay. I said that I might
sell them. I do not believe that I'm taking advantage of anybody in
this process.
Thank you,
-Jason
shawn scallen
Wilk?
jasonbar
> Howdy-
>
> I revisited the former GCE employee who sold me the prototypes that I
> recently sold, and I picked up 2 more goodies that I wish to sell:
> binders of hardcopies of the original source code for the Vectrex
> internal ROM & Minestorm.
>
I took a bunch of pictures & moved these to eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160581757320
Thanks,
-Jason
parabellum
>
> I took a bunch of pictures & moved these to eBay:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160581757320
>
> Thanks,
> -Jason
IMHO, the real Value of this item lies in the information it conveys
(the source comments), not its mere "rarity".
Such a shame one has to pay to gain access to such information (that
would unmistakably help the homebrew community, hence the whole
community).
I just would hate this item to get bought by a collector that doesn't
even understand 6809 ASM!
Oh well...
</rant>
Franck.
[HCI]Mara'akate
I felt the same about the prototypes that were sold last week. More
than likely they were snatched up by a collector; never to be seen for
another decade until the collector decides to sell it again. Really a
shame.
Frank
Mayhem
items) and then release them for free to the general community? If so,
you have more money and less sense than myself. Needless to say it
also devalues the original item. I have Android and I have thought
about some sort of reproduction run if people were interested, but I
really don't know if there are enough people to make it worthwhile. It
would make it enough of a fillip in compensation.
This sort of thing is done in the 2600 community, which is why I
consider it a model for here. If, as said, there is the demand...
hcmffm
yes, a way should be found that the Vectrex community gets hold of this. Or
at least a copy of the original (the information) should get into the hands
of the Vectrex community.
- Helmut
parabellum
Well, both binaries (Minestorm and the BIOS) have already been
disassembled and commented by Fred Taft IIRC (that has done an
incredible work on this by the way) ; so the technical added value of
such items might be questionable indeed.
I reckon the Minestorm binder might not be that interesting. It is
"just" a game after all, and as such, chances are that its source
comments will be rather "application-oriented" (hence not that useful
from a generic point of view).
The BIOS ("executive") binder, on the other side, might contain very
valuable information about the system : magic numbers, delays
computations and explanations (why some NOPs are needed here and there
for example), hardware tip & tricks, do's and don'ts, and so on... And
even if the the hardened homebrew developers won't learn much from it,
it will benefit to all those that want to have a go at vectrex
programming (this would become a reference book, sort of).
Looking at the scanned pages, it seems that the sources are well
commented, so there is potentially a lot to learn from them. However,
the key word is "potentially", as this is just an assumption based on
the small available snippet.
This is just my opinion of course, and it would be interesting to know
what vectrex developers think about this matter.
Franck.
parabellum
> Let me ask you a simple question. Would you spend $1000 on an item (or
> items) and then release them for free to the general community? If so,
> you have more money and less sense than myself. Needless to say it
> also devalues the original item.
I don't know whether your question was directed at me or not ;
however, I don't think it's worth getting on the slippery slope of
comparing one's sense or whatever.
For the record, as far as I'm concerned, I would not spend $1000 on
any vectrex item, period ;-)
To get back on the topic :
we're not talking about a "simple" game/cartridge here, it is not a
mere object (Mailplane, no matter how rare it is, is just an object
without any other intrinsic value).
This binder is in my eyes a source of information *before* being a
collectible, this is its true value, if that makes sense. But alas,
"information is free" is a myth.
Franck
Mayhem
bought these and will probably not share them. I was just asking if he
spent $1000 on them, would he share them for free as well? I doubt
it... all communities have people who want to take but never give...
no offense there Mara'akate. Sadly that isn't how life works...
hcmffm
people out there that do want and do give, and there's the web which allows
for bringing many people together. :-)
As written by parabellum, the information in the Vectrex binder might be of
some value for the Vectrex community. So there should be a way to get hold
of the **information** in the Vectrex binder.
Some possible solutions:
a - The Vectrex binder could be sold with the condition that a scan of it is
made public.
b - The Vectrex binder could be offered to the Vectrex community (or a
representant of it) for a reasonable (fixed) price.
c - A scan of the Vectrex binder could be offered to the Vectrex community
d - The Vectrex community could try and buy the Vectrex binder by collecting
money.
e - Someone could buy the Vectrex binder, scan it, and then sell it, again,
with a note that the information is made public.
f - The Vectrex community could contact the buyer and ask for a scan (for
free or for some money).
...
That's just some possible solutions. The auction has started, already, and
will end in 5 days. This puts pressure on finding a solution within the
Vectrex community.
@Jasonbar:
The information in the Vectrex binder might be of some value for the Vectrex
community, so it would be good and important to make that information
public. Would it be possible to stop the ebay auction and wait and see for a
short while whether a solution could be found by the Vectrex community? And
could you perhaps even get back to the seller and ask, if he/she would grant
the Vectrex community the right to get a scan of the Vectrex binder and make
it public (for free or for a certain amount of money)? Both would be much
appreciated.
- Helmut
hcmffm
commented code of the Vectrex BIOS out there, alreay. Where can the
commented Vectrex code be downloaded?
From my point of view, the "potential use" of the information in the Vectrex
binders is enough reason to say that the Vectrex community should try to get
hold of that information.
- Helmut
jasonbar
> @Jasonbar:
> The information in the Vectrex binder might be of some value for the Vectrex
> community, so it would be good and important to make that information
> public. Would it be possible to stop the ebay auction and wait and see for a
> short while whether a solution could be found by the Vectrex community? And
> could you perhaps even get back to the seller and ask, if he/she would grant
> the Vectrex community the right to get a scan of the Vectrex binder and make
> it public (for free or for a certain amount of money)? Both would be much
> appreciated.
>
> - Helmut
Hi Helmut-
Thanks for writing. It would be neat if this info got out into the
public & resulted in better future Vectrex software. I posted to rgv
originally on 4/28 & the post didn't generate much interest (3 posts
in 3 days). After 3 days, on 5/1, I put the binders on eBay, as I'd
mentioned I'd do in my 4/28 post. As soon as I put them on eBay, that
seemed to give everybody a necessary kick in the pants to start taking
interest (9 posts in 2 days). Chalk it up to human nature. :)
Based on my opinion of & experience with the previous owner over the
last few months & over a few transactions, I wouldn't be surprised if
these items didn't end up in storage forever had I not bought them.
I'm not asking for any applause for being noble & "rescuing" these
items. I certainly am guilty of trying to make a profit as well. I'm
a collector of all sorts of video games & would love to keep these for
collecting's sake (I've scarfed up any homebrew hardware & software I
can get my hands on, to support the developers), but the money will
sure come in handy as well. :) I've put up a lot of cash for these
items (and the ROMs I sold recently) and hours of total driving &
negotiating/e-mailing. If the binders sell for their opening bid,
I've engaged in a losing transaction.
The previous owner doesn't own any rights to this material--he got
(bought?) it when GCE/MB closed up Vectrex shop & dissolved their
assets.
Sorry for my rambling. I'm inclined to let the auction continue for
now. I fear that, without a looming & concrete deadline, an attempt
for the Vectrex community to find a solution will take an extremely
long time to arise at best, or it will fizzle & stall at worst.
Perhaps I'm a pessimist...
If the auction has no bidders & if a concrete solution arises, I'll
certainly consider ending it. If somebody wants to buy the binders,
sit on them, & then wait for a solution from the Vectrex community,
then that's great too. If the auction ends with no bids, then the
joke's on me & I'm out a lot of cash & I've clearly overpaid for
them. :)
I don't want to ruffle any feathers or cause any conflict. Thanks for
everybody's thoughtful input to this thread.
Thanks,
-Jason
shawn scallen
>(Mailplane, no matter how rare it is, is just an object
> without any other intrinsic value)
i dunno, i think Mailplane has value - http://mailplaneapp.com/
...as does Mail Plane -- i assume someone would pay me at *least* $1
for the chip
parabellum
> On May 3, 3:55 am, parabellum <parabellum...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >(Mailplane, no matter how rare it is, is just an object
> > without any other intrinsic value)
>
>
> ...as does Mail Plane -- i assume someone would pay me at *least* $1
> for the chip
</troll>
Franck.
[HCI]Mara'akate
This post will be a waste of time, but whatever. It's not about
spending $1000 on it. It's about making it public knowledge. It
won't decrease the value of it. Look at the sonic community and how
they purchased a huge lot of prototypes and put it all online for
everyone to enjoy and this cost them at least $10,000! The original
carts and cds are still worth money.
And personally, I don't want this item. I'm not a programmer, nor do
I plan to write games on the Vectrex. I just think it would be a good
addition to the community so in case someone does want to start coding
or, hell, I'd even be interested in just reading the comments.
Frank
Mayhem
> spending $1000 on it. It's about making it public knowledge. It
> won't decrease the value of it. Look at the sonic community and how
> they purchased a huge lot of prototypes and put it all online for
> everyone to enjoy and this cost them at least $10,000! The original
> carts and cds are still worth money.
No, it isn't a waste of time. I understand your concern. It's not as
if I haven't made other items publicly available in the past,
especially regarding dumps of extremely rare C64 cartridges. However
the Sonic community I assume have chipped in from lots of sources to
get the money required. That isn't what happened here; one person
bought the chips Jason offered earlier, and I presume one person will
buy the printouts if they sell. Therefore the prerogative lies with
one person, not a community decision. That was my argument as to why
things are different.
And yes, the originals that were dumped are still worth money, but
vastly less than before they were dumped and disseminated online. It
DOES decrease the value of it, and has been shown in previous examples
in the 2600 and NES communities. Which is why quite often in the those
two communities, there are reproduction runs made for people to buy
and essentially "chip in" with money to make it publicly available
before the ROM is released some point afterwards. There is a huge 2600
collector called Jose who has acquired certain rare protos and has
done runs to get them out there and compensate in some way for the
outlay on acquiring them. He did it for Racer and Bouncing Baby
Bunnies, and apparently the Charlie Brown game might be on the way too.
hcmffm
Yes, getting a common sense and reaching a decision in the Vectrex community
takes quite while and the community is small. There's no such thing like 10
people willing to pay xxx$ from now till tomorrow.
I'm afraid the ebay auction will end and the collector with the biggest
pockets will get the Vectrex binders. I wish that this collector does not
just put the Vectrex binders into a shelf and let them get dusty, but
understands the value of it and shares the information, which really should
be in the hands of the Vectrex community.
- Helmut
hcmffm
I know your copy is the best prototype version around and perhaps even worth
while making public. ;-)
- Helmut
[HCI]Mara'akate
ridiculously high value. Though, not technically a prototype, they
are extremely rare.
Next time something rare comes up I would be willing to chip in to
release it to the community. I really don't care who gets to keep it
at the end. I would be satisfied just having someone burn me a copy
to play on the real hardware.
I'm glad I've made my point across without everyone thinking I'm
bawwing because I don't have large pockets to own the physical
original copies. Just want everyone to enjoy it!
Vectorzoa
Let's set the profiteering issue to one side for now. These items are
up for sale, I think its quite an opportunity for us to rally
together. Franck, I for one do believe in free infomation, certainly
for something as historic as this, so Helmut, I'll pledge $100 now to
get the ball rolling on this. If even half a dozen of us pledge this
sum, I think we might have a chance.
Please forgive the directness but we seem to have little time. Given
Franck/Parabellum has given to much for free to our community in the
recent past and has demonstrated passion and reverence for the subject
matter I'd be happy to paypal him the money and let him hold the funds
and purchase on behalf of the community. My proposal (and I am being
very presumptuous of Franck's time & effort, for which I apologise,
Franck) is that the entire document be PDF'ed and released into the
community.
Subsequent to digital publication and community agreement that we have
a complete freely available digital reproduction we could choose one
of the following.
1) Let Franck keep it for his troubles.
2) Franck re-ebays it (with disclosure this is now freely digitally
available) and the original contributors get their proportional return
of the proceeds (probably at a loss)
3) Franck raffles between the contributors and the winner (pays
postage) and receives it in its entirety.
So chaps, now is our chance to do something for the global Vectrex
community. Its almost 30 years on and these chances are something of a
rarity.
Anyone else want a little slice of history?
Regards Alex
hcmffm
> than likely they were snatched up by a collector; never to be seen for
> another decade until the collector decides to sell it again. Really a
> shame.
my Mailplane version is incomplete like the version that just has been sold:
The plane cannot be started. Shawn has a better version, that one would be
worth while making public, I think.
Android - I think that is just a joke you can program yourself or draw with
Animaction, if you want. Not really much to see.
Monstorm - I don't want to talk down variations of games, but are people
really keen on a variation of Minestorm? And I'm pretty sure that this
Monstorm variation is no better game than the original.
Any code or information that lies around in shelfs is sad and a bit of a
shame. But its even some effort and sometimes not really worthwhile making
things public. Android and Monstorm are basically collector items, I think.
If there was real interest in those games/items, some action could be taken,
e.g. by contacting Jason or the new buyer.
Just my 2 cents...
- Helmut
hcmffm
have little time left.
Today, I've contacted VectrexMad! and offered him to help to make a bid. It
will be no problem to cancel that and pass my money offer to Franck,
instead. I'll also support this initiative with <x> dollars (<x> because the
possible total amount should not be public), I will contact Franck
(parabellum) and tell him the real amount that he might get from my side.
Folks, please join in so we can get hold of this Vectrex binder.
- Helmut
Vectorzoa
All sounds good other than I suggest people contribute a set amount
each rather than x, I thought $100 was a reasonable amount. If you are
concerned that the total need be secret, then of course the number of
contributors need not be public knowledge.
Also I note we have 4 days. If there's a willing quorum then we have
ample time.
Alex
[HCI]Mara'akate
I am willing to help out. I can't pitch in $100, but $20 would be
feasible for me.
Whoever is organizing this email me emoaddict15 [at] gmail
Jeroen
Jeroen
parabellum
Very cool initiative indeed, and many thanks for those that already
responded!
I've setup an email address especially for people to privately
contribute to this initiative.
The address is < auc...@vectrex.fr > ; both Vectorzoa & Hcmffm will
receive copies of the emails sent there.
I'll have to ask to the people that want to take part to this
initiative to send a short email at this address, so that we can
gather your (nick)name, email, as well as a confirmation of what
you're willing to give.
If we win the bid, I commit myself to scan the binders content, in
order to make it publicly available to everyone.
Then the item will be put back on ebay, and the contributors will be
refund, proportionally to what they gave (if the item is sold to 50%
of the price it has been bought, each contributor will get back 50% of
its initial donation).
As said previously, don't expect to earn money on this move :)
Thanks,
Franck.
hcmffm
contributors? There are three days left. Would be great if the Vectrex
community turned out to be "strong" enough. :-)
- Helmut
jasonbar
coming from the guy who's looking to make a much-needed buck off of
this transaction, but I'll offer free shipping if an rgv person wins
the auction. :)
If that happens, contact me at auction end & I'll adjust the invoice
accordingly.
Thanks,
-Jason
[HCI]Mara'akate
emoaddict15 [at] gmail [dot] <com> so I can paypal the appropriate
funds (or whatever method you would like to use)
Frank
parabellum
Thank you for your kind offer Jason, it's much appreciated.
Well, the auction deadline is closing in ; if you're willing to help,
please notify us as soon as possible.
Ideally, before Sunday 12:00AM (GMT+0), so that we have time to
coordinate the last moves smoothly.
Thank you for your help and involvement, this is what makes a true
community such a nice place to be!
If we miss this opportunity, I'm afraid there won't be any other
initiative like this in the future :(
Franck.
PS. As Google groups masked the previous email address, here it is
again : auction(at)vectrex.com
jasonbar
limited--please don't rely on me for notifications or reminders. :\
Also, as I mentioned in an e-mail to Helmut & you (I believe), if a
non-rgv person wins, I'll push to get permission to scan the documents
before shipping.
Thanks,
-Jason
parabellum
The GOOD one is : auction(at)vectrex.fr
parabellum
Yes, you mentioned that indeed. Thanks a lot for that too, that's very
kind of you.
With sympathy in the loss of your loved one.
Franck.
VectrexMad!
> On May 2, 4:39 am, jasonbar <jasonbar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I took a bunch of pictures & moved these to eBay:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160581757320
>
> > Thanks,
> > -Jason
>
> IMHO, the real Value of this item lies in the information it conveys
> (the source comments), not its mere "rarity".
> Such a shame one has to pay to gain access to such information (that
> would unmistakably help the homebrew community, hence the whole
> community).
>
> I just would hate this item to get bought by a collector that doesn't
> even understand 6809 ASM!
> Oh well...
> </rant>
>
> Franck.
I have been working abroad so haven't had much time to look at this.
However, some searching today revealed that there already exists a
publically available listing with comments of the Vectrex executive.
if you go to http://www.playvectrex.com and select "DESIGN IT" from
the left hand menu, then scroll down you can download Vectrex Exec ROM
Rev. C.
The one forsale is Rev. B. Comparing the avaialbale scans of the
executive listing with the scan of the executive reveals little
difference. In fact one might argue that Rev. C is more useful.
Therefore, the value of the document is questionable with regards to
technical information IMHO.
[HCI]Mara'akate
> On May 2, 9:02 am, parabellum <parabellum...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 2, 4:39 am, jasonbar <jasonbar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I took a bunch of pictures & moved these to eBay:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160581757320
>
> > > Thanks,
> > > -Jason
>
> > IMHO, the real Value of this item lies in the information it conveys
> > (the source comments), not its mere "rarity".
> > Such a shame one has to pay to gain access to such information (that
> > would unmistakably help the homebrew community, hence the whole
> > community).
>
> > I just would hate this item to get bought by a collector that doesn't
> > even understand 6809 ASM!
> > Oh well...
> > </rant>
>
> > Franck.
>
> I have been working abroad so haven't had much time to look at this.
> However, some searching today revealed that there already exists a
> publically available listing with comments of the Vectrex executive.
>
> the left hand menu, then scroll down you can download Vectrex Exec ROM
> Rev. C.
>
> The one forsale is Rev. B. Comparing the avaialbale scans of the
> executive listing with the scan of the executive reveals little
> difference. In fact one might argue that Rev. C is more useful.
>
> Therefore, the value of the document is questionable with regards to
> technical information IMHO.
Wow, you do bring up a good point... Hmm...
Vectorzoa
Franck, Helmut and myself as just deliberating an outcome given Ian's
information. I feel great shame I only recalled the disassembled
version. Hopefully an update as to our intent will appear very
shortly.
Alex.
Vectorzoa
We have discussed the situation and whilst it was warming to see a few
supporters of free information rally round the cause, it seems in the
light of the public availability of the Rev C source there is little
need to bid. In a way it's a tremendous result for the community. We
have the information we sought already and for free thanks to the
generosity of Joe Britt. His PDF is hosted at playvectrex.com here
(http://www.playvectrex.com/designit/joebritt/exec_rom_revc.pdf).
Hopefully there are many of you, like I, who will enjoy browsing
through the 140 pages found there. Thanks to VectrexMad for his
diligence and timely advisory.
So for clarity. The consortium will not be bidding on ebay. No monies
have been taken and Helmut has emailed all previously contacted
collectors and contributors to advise them of such and to release them
of any obligations made to the consortium.
Nice to see how the community can mobilise in times of need. Happy
bidding to all. I should point out we are aware of the Minestorm
material, but [we] consider this of less historic note than the exec.
Regards Alex, (also on behalf of Helmut and Franck)
jasonbar
Thanks,
-Jason
VectrexMad!
> > I felt the same about the prototypes that were sold last week. More
> > than likely they were snatched up by a collector; never to be seen for
> > another decade until the collector decides to sell it again. Really a
> > shame.
>
> I have a MailPlane prototype and could provide it for making it public. But
> my Mailplane version is incomplete like the version that just has been sold:
> The plane cannot be started. Shawn has a better version, that one would be
> worth while making public, I think.
Helmut,
I remember Franck looked at the non working publically available
MailPlane and said there was some corrupt code present - I can't
remember now, how much code he said was corrupt. But how about taking
your MailPlane ROM, dumping the code and then getting an expert
Vectrex programmer to combine both sets of code (your version and the
already public domain version) with perhaps the possibility to get a
fully working version? This idea assumes that the different versions
available are different because of bit rot rather than versions
available as different releases. If there are different releases then
there is no chance of combining the code from different releases to
get a working version.
VectrexMad!
hcmffm
The problem of my MailPlane prototype and Jason's MailPlane is the same
(plane does not take off), so I doubt that this is a matter of rot. I could
make my MailPlane ROM available and someone could try to repair the code.
For all I know, Shawn's MailPlane works nicely, I think we should try and
get Shawn's MailPlane rather than fixing a broken one.
- Helmut
parabellum
>
> I remember Franck looked at the non working publically available
> MailPlane and said there was some corrupt code present - I can't
> remember now, how much code he said was corrupt.
Ian,
If I remember correctly, the corruption was following a pattern (every
1024 bytes bloc was made of the valid 512 bytes bloc repeated twice).
Hence, only half of the binary is valid: the bytes verifying
((byte_offset % 1024) < 512)
Franck.
VectrexMad!
I was speculating about combining your MailPlane with the MailPlane
that is publically available already - the one I think donated by
Chris Romeo and downloadable from vectrex.nl. That one stops right at
the beginning, you don't even get to the plane. But I am not sure now,
because I think there was a big section in that one which was corrupt.
Would make sense to get the Shawn one. I would even make a donation if
there was a collecitve attempt to purchase it.
VectrexMad!
thanks for the info Franck. So in theory not just a case of patching
in one part of the mailplane memory with another.
hcmffm
> there was a collecitve attempt to purchase it.
(box, cart, ..) of Mailplane, but the business model didn't work out. The
number of potential buyers would be limited and the need of the light pen
limits the small group even further down. (Note: Reminds me that I have 3D
Sector-X but still not 3D imager, hmm.)
A common effort and interest of many people can make a big difference,
though. I guess it's mainly the interest and not the money of many people
that might convince, here, but I'd also donate for a fully runnable version
of MailPlane. And the same applies for Joust, I guess: If there were many
people demanding and yelling for Joust, there might be a way to finalize the
game and make it public.
- Helmut
[HCI]Mara'akate
I'd be interested in the unfinished copies as well, just for archival
purposes.
jasonbar
Binders have been sold. Pictures & scans have been removed from
Photobucket.
Thanks for everybody's participation & discussion.
-Jason
VectrexMad!
Helmut, maybe (and assuming Franck was up for this) you make the ROM
available to Franck. He can run it in his debugger to see where the
code falls. He did this already with the publically available
MailPlane and discovered a corrupt ROM with repeating pattern - but
your ROM stops in a different place to the publically available ROM,
and there might just be a chance the two ROM codes could be used to
make one fully working version.
Ian aka VectrexMad!
Mayhem
complete?) dump of "Mail Plane" and comparing it against the non
functioning public ROM, I'm of the opinion that the public ROM could
be merely a badly dumped attempt of the version that Jason recently
sold.
Why do I say this? There are blocks of code between the two that are
100% identical, interspaced with blocks of garbage in the public ROM
where functioning code exists in the new dump I have. The working
blocks line up perfectly, they occupy the same hex positions in the
ROM structure. Or it could be that the chip used for the public dump
was suffering some sort of bit rot, which explains the garbage
clusters at various positions. It's just supposition, but plausible
supposition nonetheless.
And before you ask, no I'm not making the dump public. If someone else
with the same build wants to, that's their choice...
Mittens
> Let's just say that having now gained access to a better (more
> complete?) dump of "Mail Plane" and comparing it against the non
> functioning public ROM, I'm of the opinion that the public ROM could
> be merely a badly dumped attempt of the version that Jason recently
> sold.
Stuck or shorted address line, perhaps?
Richard H.
lightpen, fly routes, avoid lightning etc. Then I accidentally
overwrote it with the bugged version :(
I can't remember who sent it me. It was a few years ago.
Richard H.
t-bone jenkins
years back, i found thwocker by activision, a proto for the 2600. i had the image dumped, released it and still sold the original cart for quite a sum of money. it actually financed a 3 week trip to europe.
so to say that releasing the image devalues the original proto, that's just wrong. to hold onto it and not let the community have fun with it reaks of the kid on the block that brags that they got a new toy but won't let anyone else play with it.
t-bone jenkins
> > Would make sense to get the Shawn one. I would even make a donation if > there was a collecitve attempt to purchase it. From what I've heard from Shawn, there were thoughts to publish a full game (box, cart, ..) of Mailplane, but the business model didn't work out. The number of potential buyers would be limited and the need of the light pen limits the small group even further down. (Note: Reminds me that I have 3D Sector-X but still not 3D imager, hmm.)A common effort and interest of many people can make a big difference, though. I guess it's mainly the interest and not the money of many people that might convince, here, but I'd also donate for a fully runnable version of MailPlane. And the same applies for Joust, I guess: If there were many people demanding and yelling for Joust, there might be a way to finalize the game and make it public.- Helmut
cost of goods for s repro pen are what, $15? the business model is absolutely there, first version repro cart/box/manual, second version with a homebrew pen. not only does the community who have pens benefit from the release of the game, the entire community benefits from more pens out there. maybe a hb author might tackle a light pen title knowing that there would be X number of new pen owners chomping at the bit for more pen titles.