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Rare Entries Contest OQ-01 Results
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Orlando Quattro
Apr 16, 2015, 9:44:15 PM4/16/15
to
Here are the results for Rare Entries Contest OQ-01, which has turned
out to be quite a cautionary tale for me. I know that I shouldn't have
been surprised, given my inability to ever score a clean slate of
correct answers any time I entered one of Mark Brader's Rare Entries
contests, but I was amazed at how many wording errors I managed to
achieve.
This contest was deliberately intended to be straightforward, but not to
the degree that actually emerged, so there were only two wrong answers
among the ten entrants. Next time I will endeavour to be more exacting
...
Despite the contest being one that could mostly be worked with not much
more than judicious use of an Internet search engine, I found DAN
TILQUE's winning score of just 12 to be mighty impressive, so
congratulations Dan. The two runners upper were PETER SMYTHE and ERLAND
SOMMARSKOG, tied on a score of 48.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are their slates of answers (some abbreviated). As always, you
should be reading this in a monospaced font for proper tabular alignment.
DAN TILQUE ERLAND SOMMARSKOG PETER SMYTH
[0] Uruguay Argentina Hungary
[1] Or Argent Vert
[2] The Barber of Seville Carmen Tosca
[3] Violin Viola Cello
[4] Scotland Bangladesh Pakistan
[5] Circuit Mont-Tremblant Riverside Raceway Long Beach
[6] HQ of the Red Cross Red Tower (Malta) Red Rocks
Amphitheatre
[7] Lighthouse Hanging Gardens Hanging Gardens
of Alexandria of Babylon of Babylon
[8] General Motors SAAB Proton
[9] USA Argentina Chile
=> Entries must be emailed to the address given above. Please do not
=> quote the questions back to me, and DO send ONLY PLAIN TEXT in ASCII
Erland Sommarskog and Björn Lundin are both hereby chastised
for quoting the questions back to me!
To review the scoring:
=> Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.
=>
=> If your answer on a category is correct, then your score is the number
=> of people who gave that answer or an answer I consider equivalent. If
=> wrong, or if you skip the question, you get a high score as a penalty.
=> The scores on the different questions are *multiplied* to produce a
=> final score.
See the rules in the original posting for the penalty score formula.
Here is the complete table of scores.
RANK SCORE ENTRANT Q0 Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q5 Q6 Q7 Q8 Q9
1. 12 Dan Tilque 1 1 1 3 2 1 1 1 2 1
2. 48 Erland Sommarskog 1 2 2 3 2 1 1 2 1 1
3. 48 Peter Smyth 1 2 1 3 1 1 4 2 1 1
4. 72 John Gerson 1 1 1 3 1 3 2 1 2 2
5. 288 Calvin 1 2 1 3 WA 1 2 3 1 2
6. 432 Björn Lundin 1 4 1 3 2 3 2 3 1 1
7. 576 Mark Brader 1 4 2 3 1 1 4 3 1 2
8. 576 Joshua Kreitzer 1 4 1 3 2 1 4 3 1 2
9. 1,152 Stephen Perry 1 2 2 WA 2 1 4 3 1 2
10. 1,728 Kevin Stone 1 4 2 3 2 3 2 3 1 2
And here is the complete list of answers given. Each list shows correct
answers in the order worst to best (most to least popular). The
notation ">>>" means that "more specific variant" scoring was used.
=> 0. Name an independent country where one might expect to find
=> penguins.
1 South Africa
1 Argentina
1 Namibia
1 Singapore (in the zoo)
1 Switzerland (in the zoo)
1 Chile
1 Australia
1 Uruguay
1 New Zealand
1 Hungary (in the zoo)
My first example of being casual with the wording, and failing to
include a phrase such as natively, or in the wild. Three entrants duly
took successful advantage of this loophole.
=> 1. Give the name of a tincture used in English heraldry.
4 Sable
2 Vert
1 Argent
1 Pearl (deemed equivalent to Argent)
1 Azure
1 Or
I had hoped that the smallish set might provoke collisions, which it
did, but was surprised by the large collision on sable.
=> 2. Unambiguously identify an opera from which music has been
=> featured in at least five full length feature films that are not
=> simply performances of the opera in question, and which have each
=> grossed at least $25 million (USD) at the box office, as shown by
=> the IMDB (Internet Movie DataBase) in their "Box office / business"
=> section, or other authoritative source.
2 Die Walkure (from the Ring Cycle by Wagner)
2 Carmen (by Bizet)
1 The Pirates of Penzance (by Gilbert and Sullivan)
1 La Boheme (by Puccini)
1 The Marriage of Figaro (by Mozart)
1 The Barber of Seville (by Rossini)
1 Lohengrin (by Wagner)
1 Tosca (by Puccini)
I am unsure of the level of knowledge about classical music among
readers of these newsgroups, so deliberately kept the category extremely
broad, rather than adding a more specific sub-class of opera, such as
grand opera. I had also anticipated that the Ride of the Valkyries might
be familiar to everybody, and so chosen on the grounds that it would be
too obvious a choice. Two people went that route, and two chose Carmen,
which is now deemed to be the world's most well-known opera.
I didn't have light opera in mind when I set this question, and was
startled to discover just how often music from The Pirates of Penzance
(example: I Am the Very Model of a Modern Major General) has been used
in movies.
=> 3. name a contemporary string instrument that might be found in a
=> modern day symphony orchestra, chamber orchestra, or chamber
=> music ensemble, but NOT only in an early music ensemble. The
=> instrument must be employed in an ensemble role, and NOT solely
=> as a solo performer.
3 Violin
3 Viola
3 Cello
WRONG:
1 Ukulele (not a member of a regular orchestra)
Despite the Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain, and the Rocky Mountain
Ukulele Orchestra, both of which present delightful musical
performances, I deemed the ukulele not to be an instrument found in a
symphony orchestra, chamber orchestra, or chamber music ensemble. I
agree that the above examples might fit the definition of chamber music
ensemble, but they have chosen to call themselves orchestras. I believe
that a true chamber ensemble requires a diversity of instruments (as in
a string quartet) and not merely a set of a single instrument.
I know, had I included a phrase such as "found regularly in", I would
have avoided this particular contretemps.
It was interesting to see that only three of the regular orchestral
stringed instruments were chosen, and that nobody attempted to go after
some of the less obvious answers such as the harp.
=> 4. Name a nation with a team entered in the 2015 ICC Cricket World Cup.
2 Bangladesh
2 Scotland
2 Sri Lanka
1 Ireland
1 Australia
1 Pakistan
WRONG:
1 St. Lucia (only Caribbean entry was The West Indies)
I had hoped that there might be collisions on the less obvious
cricketing nations, notably Scotland, Ireland, Afghanistan and the UAE.
It was a surprise to see the collisions on Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.
=> 5. Name a North American venue that has hosted a Formula One grand prix.
3 Circuit of the Americas (Austin, Texas)
1 Mosport (Ontario, Canada)
1 Riverside International Raceway (California)
1 Watkins Glen (New York State)
1 Mexico City (Mexico)
1 Circuit Mont-Tremblant (Quebec, Canada)
1 Sebring International Raceway (Florida)
1 Long Beach (California)
This was another example of my being careless with the wording, as I had
thought I was going to limit the question to the USA, but I did not, and
so attracted correct entries for both Mexican and Canadian circuits. I
had also thought that there might be a collision on one of the obscure
venues, such as the parking lot of Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas, but as
it turned out the collision was on the newest (and current) venue for
the US grand prix.
=> 6. Unambiguously identify a globally recognized landmark that contains
=> the word "red" as part of its name. Global recognition means that a
=> Google search produces at least one hundred thousand hits.
=>
=> The Google search must be of the form: ("landmark name" "location")
4 Red Rocks Amphitheater (Colorado)
2 Red Square (Moscow)
2 Red Centre (Australia)
1 Red Tower (Malta)
1 Headquarters of the International Society of the Red Cross
(Switzerland)
I was surprised by the number of collisions because when I researched
this question I discovered what was to me a surprising number of
possible answers. These did not include the Red Cross HQ, which is
nevertheless a correct answer.
Again, I need to be more precise in my use of words, as landmark alone
is clearly too broad.
=> 7. Name one of the seven wonders of the ancient world, as listed in
=> Greek tourist guides from the 1st and 2nd centuries BC, and which
=> were all in existence immediately prior to 226 BC.
3 The Temple of Artemis at Ephesus
3 The Mausoleum of Halicarnassus
2 The Hanging Gardens of Babylon
1 The Statue of Zeus at Olympia
1 The Lighthouse of Alexandria
The reason for the qualifying condition of the first and second
centuries Bc is because there have been other lists that included other
wonders of the ancient world.
This was what I think of as a choke point question, forcing entrants to
select from a very limited number of possible correct answers. It was
interesting to see that there were two three-way collisions and a
two-way collision among even the limited number of entrants, and that
two possible answers were not chosen.
=> 8. Name an automobile manufacturer that has featured an animal on an
=> on-car badge. The badge may be for a marque or a specific model.
2 General Motors
1 Artega
1 SAAB
1 Triumph
1 Holden
1 Isdera
1 Lamborghini - bull
1 General Motors
1 Jaguar
1 Proton
This was another poorly worded question, resulting in a hugely broader
set of possible answers than I had intended. Despite this, two entrants
managed to collide on General Motors. Had I been more careful in framing
the question, the badge would have had to apply to the marque (e.g.
Jaguar, or Ferrari), or to a specific model (e.g. Chevvy Impala, or
Lamborghini Muira).
My use of the word animal was also over broad, encompassing as it does
both birds and fantastical creatures such as the Wyvern (used by
Vauxhall), as well as earth-bound quadrupeds. The entries reflected
these imprecisions in my wording.
=> 9. Name a country with an active railway station at an elevation higher
=> than 7,000 feet (2,133 metres).
2 Germany
2 Switzerland
2 Peru
1 Argentina
1 India
1 United States of America
1 Chile
Yes, I am fascinated by railways, particularly those that work through
difficult terrain. I selected the cut-off altitude to include the less
obvious possibilities of Germany and the USA, and was pleased to see
both chosen.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Very many thanks to all who entered, it was encouraging, even as it
showed up my inexperience at framing questions to reflect my intent and,
indeed, to set questions to really stimulate the imagination.
I shall definitely be offering another rare entries contest in due
course, if only to hone my skills at devising and adequately framing
suitable questions.
OQuattro
--
Orlando Quattro -- oquattro at magma dot ca
The Starving Artist's Garratt
My text in this article is in the public domain.
out to be quite a cautionary tale for me. I know that I shouldn't have
been surprised, given my inability to ever score a clean slate of
correct answers any time I entered one of Mark Brader's Rare Entries
contests, but I was amazed at how many wording errors I managed to
achieve.
This contest was deliberately intended to be straightforward, but not to
the degree that actually emerged, so there were only two wrong answers
among the ten entrants. Next time I will endeavour to be more exacting
...
Despite the contest being one that could mostly be worked with not much
more than judicious use of an Internet search engine, I found DAN
TILQUE's winning score of just 12 to be mighty impressive, so
congratulations Dan. The two runners upper were PETER SMYTHE and ERLAND
SOMMARSKOG, tied on a score of 48.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are their slates of answers (some abbreviated). As always, you
should be reading this in a monospaced font for proper tabular alignment.
DAN TILQUE ERLAND SOMMARSKOG PETER SMYTH
[0] Uruguay Argentina Hungary
[1] Or Argent Vert
[2] The Barber of Seville Carmen Tosca
[3] Violin Viola Cello
[4] Scotland Bangladesh Pakistan
[5] Circuit Mont-Tremblant Riverside Raceway Long Beach
[6] HQ of the Red Cross Red Tower (Malta) Red Rocks
Amphitheatre
[7] Lighthouse Hanging Gardens Hanging Gardens
of Alexandria of Babylon of Babylon
[8] General Motors SAAB Proton
[9] USA Argentina Chile
=> Entries must be emailed to the address given above. Please do not
=> quote the questions back to me, and DO send ONLY PLAIN TEXT in ASCII
Erland Sommarskog and Björn Lundin are both hereby chastised
for quoting the questions back to me!
To review the scoring:
=> Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.
=>
=> If your answer on a category is correct, then your score is the number
=> of people who gave that answer or an answer I consider equivalent. If
=> wrong, or if you skip the question, you get a high score as a penalty.
=> The scores on the different questions are *multiplied* to produce a
=> final score.
See the rules in the original posting for the penalty score formula.
Here is the complete table of scores.
RANK SCORE ENTRANT Q0 Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q5 Q6 Q7 Q8 Q9
1. 12 Dan Tilque 1 1 1 3 2 1 1 1 2 1
2. 48 Erland Sommarskog 1 2 2 3 2 1 1 2 1 1
3. 48 Peter Smyth 1 2 1 3 1 1 4 2 1 1
4. 72 John Gerson 1 1 1 3 1 3 2 1 2 2
5. 288 Calvin 1 2 1 3 WA 1 2 3 1 2
6. 432 Björn Lundin 1 4 1 3 2 3 2 3 1 1
7. 576 Mark Brader 1 4 2 3 1 1 4 3 1 2
8. 576 Joshua Kreitzer 1 4 1 3 2 1 4 3 1 2
9. 1,152 Stephen Perry 1 2 2 WA 2 1 4 3 1 2
10. 1,728 Kevin Stone 1 4 2 3 2 3 2 3 1 2
And here is the complete list of answers given. Each list shows correct
answers in the order worst to best (most to least popular). The
notation ">>>" means that "more specific variant" scoring was used.
=> 0. Name an independent country where one might expect to find
=> penguins.
1 South Africa
1 Argentina
1 Namibia
1 Singapore (in the zoo)
1 Switzerland (in the zoo)
1 Chile
1 Australia
1 Uruguay
1 New Zealand
1 Hungary (in the zoo)
My first example of being casual with the wording, and failing to
include a phrase such as natively, or in the wild. Three entrants duly
took successful advantage of this loophole.
=> 1. Give the name of a tincture used in English heraldry.
4 Sable
2 Vert
1 Argent
1 Pearl (deemed equivalent to Argent)
1 Azure
1 Or
I had hoped that the smallish set might provoke collisions, which it
did, but was surprised by the large collision on sable.
=> 2. Unambiguously identify an opera from which music has been
=> featured in at least five full length feature films that are not
=> simply performances of the opera in question, and which have each
=> grossed at least $25 million (USD) at the box office, as shown by
=> the IMDB (Internet Movie DataBase) in their "Box office / business"
=> section, or other authoritative source.
2 Die Walkure (from the Ring Cycle by Wagner)
2 Carmen (by Bizet)
1 The Pirates of Penzance (by Gilbert and Sullivan)
1 La Boheme (by Puccini)
1 The Marriage of Figaro (by Mozart)
1 The Barber of Seville (by Rossini)
1 Lohengrin (by Wagner)
1 Tosca (by Puccini)
I am unsure of the level of knowledge about classical music among
readers of these newsgroups, so deliberately kept the category extremely
broad, rather than adding a more specific sub-class of opera, such as
grand opera. I had also anticipated that the Ride of the Valkyries might
be familiar to everybody, and so chosen on the grounds that it would be
too obvious a choice. Two people went that route, and two chose Carmen,
which is now deemed to be the world's most well-known opera.
I didn't have light opera in mind when I set this question, and was
startled to discover just how often music from The Pirates of Penzance
(example: I Am the Very Model of a Modern Major General) has been used
in movies.
=> 3. name a contemporary string instrument that might be found in a
=> modern day symphony orchestra, chamber orchestra, or chamber
=> music ensemble, but NOT only in an early music ensemble. The
=> instrument must be employed in an ensemble role, and NOT solely
=> as a solo performer.
3 Violin
3 Viola
3 Cello
WRONG:
1 Ukulele (not a member of a regular orchestra)
Despite the Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain, and the Rocky Mountain
Ukulele Orchestra, both of which present delightful musical
performances, I deemed the ukulele not to be an instrument found in a
symphony orchestra, chamber orchestra, or chamber music ensemble. I
agree that the above examples might fit the definition of chamber music
ensemble, but they have chosen to call themselves orchestras. I believe
that a true chamber ensemble requires a diversity of instruments (as in
a string quartet) and not merely a set of a single instrument.
I know, had I included a phrase such as "found regularly in", I would
have avoided this particular contretemps.
It was interesting to see that only three of the regular orchestral
stringed instruments were chosen, and that nobody attempted to go after
some of the less obvious answers such as the harp.
=> 4. Name a nation with a team entered in the 2015 ICC Cricket World Cup.
2 Bangladesh
2 Scotland
2 Sri Lanka
1 Ireland
1 Australia
1 Pakistan
WRONG:
1 St. Lucia (only Caribbean entry was The West Indies)
I had hoped that there might be collisions on the less obvious
cricketing nations, notably Scotland, Ireland, Afghanistan and the UAE.
It was a surprise to see the collisions on Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.
=> 5. Name a North American venue that has hosted a Formula One grand prix.
3 Circuit of the Americas (Austin, Texas)
1 Mosport (Ontario, Canada)
1 Riverside International Raceway (California)
1 Watkins Glen (New York State)
1 Mexico City (Mexico)
1 Circuit Mont-Tremblant (Quebec, Canada)
1 Sebring International Raceway (Florida)
1 Long Beach (California)
This was another example of my being careless with the wording, as I had
thought I was going to limit the question to the USA, but I did not, and
so attracted correct entries for both Mexican and Canadian circuits. I
had also thought that there might be a collision on one of the obscure
venues, such as the parking lot of Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas, but as
it turned out the collision was on the newest (and current) venue for
the US grand prix.
=> 6. Unambiguously identify a globally recognized landmark that contains
=> the word "red" as part of its name. Global recognition means that a
=> Google search produces at least one hundred thousand hits.
=>
=> The Google search must be of the form: ("landmark name" "location")
4 Red Rocks Amphitheater (Colorado)
2 Red Square (Moscow)
2 Red Centre (Australia)
1 Red Tower (Malta)
1 Headquarters of the International Society of the Red Cross
(Switzerland)
I was surprised by the number of collisions because when I researched
this question I discovered what was to me a surprising number of
possible answers. These did not include the Red Cross HQ, which is
nevertheless a correct answer.
Again, I need to be more precise in my use of words, as landmark alone
is clearly too broad.
=> 7. Name one of the seven wonders of the ancient world, as listed in
=> Greek tourist guides from the 1st and 2nd centuries BC, and which
=> were all in existence immediately prior to 226 BC.
3 The Temple of Artemis at Ephesus
3 The Mausoleum of Halicarnassus
2 The Hanging Gardens of Babylon
1 The Statue of Zeus at Olympia
1 The Lighthouse of Alexandria
The reason for the qualifying condition of the first and second
centuries Bc is because there have been other lists that included other
wonders of the ancient world.
This was what I think of as a choke point question, forcing entrants to
select from a very limited number of possible correct answers. It was
interesting to see that there were two three-way collisions and a
two-way collision among even the limited number of entrants, and that
two possible answers were not chosen.
=> 8. Name an automobile manufacturer that has featured an animal on an
=> on-car badge. The badge may be for a marque or a specific model.
2 General Motors
1 Artega
1 SAAB
1 Triumph
1 Holden
1 Isdera
1 Lamborghini - bull
1 General Motors
1 Jaguar
1 Proton
This was another poorly worded question, resulting in a hugely broader
set of possible answers than I had intended. Despite this, two entrants
managed to collide on General Motors. Had I been more careful in framing
the question, the badge would have had to apply to the marque (e.g.
Jaguar, or Ferrari), or to a specific model (e.g. Chevvy Impala, or
Lamborghini Muira).
My use of the word animal was also over broad, encompassing as it does
both birds and fantastical creatures such as the Wyvern (used by
Vauxhall), as well as earth-bound quadrupeds. The entries reflected
these imprecisions in my wording.
=> 9. Name a country with an active railway station at an elevation higher
=> than 7,000 feet (2,133 metres).
2 Germany
2 Switzerland
2 Peru
1 Argentina
1 India
1 United States of America
1 Chile
Yes, I am fascinated by railways, particularly those that work through
difficult terrain. I selected the cut-off altitude to include the less
obvious possibilities of Germany and the USA, and was pleased to see
both chosen.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Very many thanks to all who entered, it was encouraging, even as it
showed up my inexperience at framing questions to reflect my intent and,
indeed, to set questions to really stimulate the imagination.
I shall definitely be offering another rare entries contest in due
course, if only to hone my skills at devising and adequately framing
suitable questions.
OQuattro
--
Orlando Quattro -- oquattro at magma dot ca
The Starving Artist's Garratt
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Mark Brader
Apr 16, 2015, 10:12:07 PM4/16/15
to
Orlando Quattro:
Anyway, thanks very much for running the contest.
> => 2. Unambiguously identify an opera from which music has been
> => featured in at least five full length feature films that are not
> => simply performances of the opera in question, and which have each
> => grossed at least $25 million (USD)...
> I am unsure of the level of knowledge about classical music among
> readers of these newsgroups, so deliberately kept the category
> extremely broad...
It wasn't a matter of "classical music" knowledge; it was a matter of
knowledge of uses of opera music in movies. And not only in movies,
but high-grossing ones at that. I found this one horribly tedious to
research.
> => 6. Unambiguously identify a globally recognized landmark that contains
> => the word "red" as part of its name. Global recognition means that a
> => Google search produces at least one hundred thousand hits.
> =>
> => The Google search must be of the form: ("landmark name" "location")
>
> 4 Red Rocks Amphitheater (Colorado)
> 2 Red Square (Moscow)
> 2 Red Centre (Australia)
> 1 Red Tower (Malta)
> 1 Headquarters of the International Society of the Red Cross
> (Switzerland)
>
> I was surprised by the number of collisions because when I researched
> this question I discovered what was to me a surprising number of
> possible answers.
Personally, I went with the only one I could think of, and even that one
took me a long time to come up with. I didn't think of Red Square and
two of the others I haven't even heard of.
> These did not include the Red Cross HQ, which is nevertheless a correct
> answer.
No, it isn't. It produces *zero* hits. You searched on the words
individually, i.e. without quotation marks. (If there are zero hits,
Google does this for you automatically, but it issues a warning.)
> => 8. Name an automobile manufacturer that has featured an animal on an
> => on-car badge. The badge may be for a marque or a specific model.
>
> 2 General Motors
> 1 Artega
> 1 SAAB
> 1 Triumph
> 1 Holden
> 1 Isdera
> 1 Lamborghini - bull
> 1 General Motors
> 1 Jaguar
> 1 Proton
> This was another poorly worded question, resulting in a hugely broader
> set of possible answers than I had intended. Despite this, two entrants
> managed to collide on General Motors.
And the 11th entrant picked General Motors without colliding.
Tricky! :-)
> => 9. Name a country with an active railway station at an elevation higher
> => than 7,000 feet (2,133 metres).
>
> 2 Germany
> 2 Switzerland
> 2 Peru
> 1 Argentina
> 1 India
> 1 United States of America
> 1 Chile
>
> Yes, I am fascinated by railways, particularly those that work through
> difficult terrain. I selected the cut-off altitude to include the less
> obvious possibilities of Germany and the USA, and was pleased to see
> both chosen.
There are definitional problems with this one too. Is a station
"active" if it only operates for part of the year but not during
the contest period? And how broad is the scope of "railway"?
--
Mark Brader "[This computation] assumed that everything
Toronto would work, a happy state of affairs found
m...@vex.net only in fiction." -- Tom Clancy
> Here are the results for Rare Entries Contest OQ-01, which has turned
> out to be quite a cautionary tale for me. I know that I shouldn't have
> been surprised, given my inability to ever score a clean slate of
> correct answers any time I entered one of Mark Brader's Rare Entries
> contests, but I was amazed at how many wording errors I managed to
> achieve.
It's tougher that it looks, isn't it?
> out to be quite a cautionary tale for me. I know that I shouldn't have
> been surprised, given my inability to ever score a clean slate of
> correct answers any time I entered one of Mark Brader's Rare Entries
> contests, but I was amazed at how many wording errors I managed to
> achieve.
Anyway, thanks very much for running the contest.
> => 2. Unambiguously identify an opera from which music has been
> => featured in at least five full length feature films that are not
> => simply performances of the opera in question, and which have each
> I am unsure of the level of knowledge about classical music among
> readers of these newsgroups, so deliberately kept the category
It wasn't a matter of "classical music" knowledge; it was a matter of
knowledge of uses of opera music in movies. And not only in movies,
but high-grossing ones at that. I found this one horribly tedious to
research.
> => 6. Unambiguously identify a globally recognized landmark that contains
> => the word "red" as part of its name. Global recognition means that a
> => Google search produces at least one hundred thousand hits.
> =>
> => The Google search must be of the form: ("landmark name" "location")
>
> 4 Red Rocks Amphitheater (Colorado)
> 2 Red Square (Moscow)
> 2 Red Centre (Australia)
> 1 Red Tower (Malta)
> 1 Headquarters of the International Society of the Red Cross
> (Switzerland)
>
> I was surprised by the number of collisions because when I researched
> this question I discovered what was to me a surprising number of
> possible answers.
took me a long time to come up with. I didn't think of Red Square and
two of the others I haven't even heard of.
> These did not include the Red Cross HQ, which is nevertheless a correct
> answer.
individually, i.e. without quotation marks. (If there are zero hits,
Google does this for you automatically, but it issues a warning.)
> => 8. Name an automobile manufacturer that has featured an animal on an
> => on-car badge. The badge may be for a marque or a specific model.
>
> 2 General Motors
> 1 Artega
> 1 SAAB
> 1 Triumph
> 1 Holden
> 1 Isdera
> 1 Lamborghini - bull
> 1 General Motors
> 1 Jaguar
> 1 Proton
> This was another poorly worded question, resulting in a hugely broader
> set of possible answers than I had intended. Despite this, two entrants
> managed to collide on General Motors.
Tricky! :-)
> => 9. Name a country with an active railway station at an elevation higher
> => than 7,000 feet (2,133 metres).
>
> 2 Germany
> 2 Switzerland
> 2 Peru
> 1 Argentina
> 1 India
> 1 United States of America
> 1 Chile
>
> Yes, I am fascinated by railways, particularly those that work through
> difficult terrain. I selected the cut-off altitude to include the less
> obvious possibilities of Germany and the USA, and was pleased to see
> both chosen.
"active" if it only operates for part of the year but not during
the contest period? And how broad is the scope of "railway"?
--
Mark Brader "[This computation] assumed that everything
Toronto would work, a happy state of affairs found
m...@vex.net only in fiction." -- Tom Clancy
Dan Tilque
Apr 17, 2015, 12:46:07 AM4/17/15
to
Mark Brader wrote:
> Orlando Quattro:
name. It's the International *Committee*, not Society.
This was my answer. When I googled it before submitting, this search got
somewhere around 130,000 hits:
"International Committee of the Red Cross Headquarters" Geneva
Now, I get something like 6400 hits. Why? Could be a number of things,
like which server farm I got routed to on the different days. Or perhaps
some minor change in their data changed the output of their estimation
algorithm. Or some factor I can't think of.
Another search I did before submitting was "International Red Cross
Headquarters" Geneva. That produced 117,000 hits, both then and now. Why
didn't that one change? Who knows.
Trying other names for the building, I find that this search gives
980,000 hits:
"headquarters of the International Red Cross" Geneva
--
Dan Tilque
> Orlando Quattro:
>
>> => 6. Unambiguously identify a globally recognized landmark that contains
>> => the word "red" as part of its name. Global recognition means that a
>> => Google search produces at least one hundred thousand hits.
>> =>
>> => The Google search must be of the form: ("landmark name" "location")
>>
>> 4 Red Rocks Amphitheater (Colorado)
>> 2 Red Square (Moscow)
>> 2 Red Centre (Australia)
>> 1 Red Tower (Malta)
>> 1 Headquarters of the International Society of the Red Cross
>> (Switzerland)
>>
>
>> => 6. Unambiguously identify a globally recognized landmark that contains
>> => the word "red" as part of its name. Global recognition means that a
>> => Google search produces at least one hundred thousand hits.
>> =>
>> => The Google search must be of the form: ("landmark name" "location")
>>
>> 4 Red Rocks Amphitheater (Colorado)
>> 2 Red Square (Moscow)
>> 2 Red Centre (Australia)
>> 1 Red Tower (Malta)
>> 1 Headquarters of the International Society of the Red Cross
>> (Switzerland)
>>
>
>> These did not include the Red Cross HQ, which is nevertheless a correct
>> answer.
>
> No, it isn't. It produces *zero* hits. You searched on the words
> individually, i.e. without quotation marks. (If there are zero hits,
> Google does this for you automatically, but it issues a warning.)
It probably produced zero hits for you because of the mistake in the
>> answer.
>
> No, it isn't. It produces *zero* hits. You searched on the words
> individually, i.e. without quotation marks. (If there are zero hits,
> Google does this for you automatically, but it issues a warning.)
name. It's the International *Committee*, not Society.
This was my answer. When I googled it before submitting, this search got
somewhere around 130,000 hits:
"International Committee of the Red Cross Headquarters" Geneva
Now, I get something like 6400 hits. Why? Could be a number of things,
like which server farm I got routed to on the different days. Or perhaps
some minor change in their data changed the output of their estimation
algorithm. Or some factor I can't think of.
Another search I did before submitting was "International Red Cross
Headquarters" Geneva. That produced 117,000 hits, both then and now. Why
didn't that one change? Who knows.
Trying other names for the building, I find that this search gives
980,000 hits:
"headquarters of the International Red Cross" Geneva
--
Dan Tilque
Mark Brader
Apr 17, 2015, 12:53:53 AM4/17/15
to
Orlando Quattro:
>>> => 6. Unambiguously identify a globally recognized landmark that contains
>>> => the word "red" as part of its name. Global recognition means that a
>>> => Google search produces at least one hundred thousand hits.
>>> =>
>>> => The Google search must be of the form: ("landmark name" "location")
>>>
>>> 4 Red Rocks Amphitheater (Colorado)
>>> 2 Red Square (Moscow)
>>> 2 Red Centre (Australia)
>>> 1 Red Tower (Malta)
>>> 1 Headquarters of the International Society of the Red Cross
>>> (Switzerland)
>>> ...the Red Cross HQ, which is nevertheless a correct answer.
>>> => 6. Unambiguously identify a globally recognized landmark that contains
>>> => the word "red" as part of its name. Global recognition means that a
>>> => Google search produces at least one hundred thousand hits.
>>> =>
>>> => The Google search must be of the form: ("landmark name" "location")
>>>
>>> 4 Red Rocks Amphitheater (Colorado)
>>> 2 Red Square (Moscow)
>>> 2 Red Centre (Australia)
>>> 1 Red Tower (Malta)
>>> 1 Headquarters of the International Society of the Red Cross
>>> (Switzerland)
Mark Brader:
>> No, it isn't. It produces *zero* hits. You searched on the words
>> individually, i.e. without quotation marks. (If there are zero hits,
>> Google does this for you automatically, but it issues a warning.)
Dan Tilque:
>> individually, i.e. without quotation marks. (If there are zero hits,
>> Google does this for you automatically, but it issues a warning.)
> It probably produced zero hits for you because of the mistake in the
> name. It's the International *Committee*, not Society.
>
> This was my answer. When I googled it before submitting, this search got
> somewhere around 130,000 hits:
>
> "International Committee of the Red Cross Headquarters" Geneva
>
> Now, I get something like 6400 hits.
For what it's worth, I now get about the same.
> name. It's the International *Committee*, not Society.
>
> This was my answer. When I googled it before submitting, this search got
> somewhere around 130,000 hits:
>
> "International Committee of the Red Cross Headquarters" Geneva
>
> Now, I get something like 6400 hits.
> Why? Could be a number of things, like which server farm I got routed to...
Yeah, these things happen. When I used questions with a google-hit
requirement I always took the entrant's word for it if they did a
correct search and got more hits than I did.
> Another search I did before submitting was "International Red Cross
> Headquarters" Geneva. That produced 117,000 hits, both then and now. Why
> didn't that one change? Who knows.
> Trying other names for the building, I find that this search gives
> 980,000 hits:
>
> "headquarters of the International Red Cross" Geneva
Anyway, if it was my contest, the issue would be what the hit count
was when using the name as supplied in your entry, not what it was
when using other forms of the name. Orlando?
--
Mark Brader "'You wanted it to WORK? That costs EXTRA!'
Toronto is probably the second-place security hole
m...@vex.net after simple carelessness." -- John Woods
Erland Sommarskog
Apr 17, 2015, 3:33:10 AM4/17/15
to
Mark Brader (m...@vex.net) writes:
> It wasn't a matter of "classical music" knowledge; it was a matter of
> knowledge of uses of opera music in movies. And not only in movies,
> but high-grossing ones at that. I found this one horribly tedious to
> research.
Agreed. My first bet as "Aida" but I had to give it up, since the hits
> It wasn't a matter of "classical music" knowledge; it was a matter of
> knowledge of uses of opera music in movies. And not only in movies,
> but high-grossing ones at that. I found this one horribly tedious to
> research.
I found at IMDB mainly were in TV things and a few were in movies with
a great revenue. I next tried Carmen and was more successful.
The gross limit also more or less automatically disqualified older
movies for which IMDB had no data, and which one may suspect grossed
that much anyway.
> Personally, I went with the only one I could think of, and even that one
> took me a long time to come up with. I didn't think of Red Square and
> two of the others I haven't even heard of.
to be too likely for a collion, so I simply googled on "red" and "landmark"
and this lead me to the Red Tower on Malta.
> There are definitional problems with this one too. Is a station
> "active" if it only operates for part of the year but not during
> the contest period? And how broad is the scope of "railway"?
Argentina, which immediately came into my mind. There is a railway and
there is a station, and there is a train stopping there every day about
nine months of the year (not in summer) on 3700 above sea level. But
it is not a train you buy a ticket with to go forth and back, but it is
a tourist train and you come back where you started.
Overall, I was not thrilled over Quattro's question, but since Argentina
was an obvious answer to both the first and the last question, I could
not restist from entering.
--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esq...@sommarskog.se
Orlando Quattro
Apr 17, 2015, 10:23:55 AM4/17/15
to
In article <IvydnTXPyoF9DK3I...@vex.net>,
m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
=> Orlando Quattro:
=> >>> => 6. Unambiguously identify a globally recognized landmark that contains
=> >>> => the word "red" as part of its name. Global recognition means that a
=> >>> => Google search produces at least one hundred thousand hits.
=> >>> 4 Red Rocks Amphitheater (Colorado)
=> >>> 2 Red Square (Moscow)
=> >>> 2 Red Centre (Australia)
=> >>> 1 Red Tower (Malta)
=> >>> 1 Headquarters of the International Society of the Red Cross
=> >>> (Switzerland)
=>
=> >>> ...the Red Cross HQ, which is nevertheless a correct answer.
=>
=> Mark Brader:
=> >> No, it isn't. It produces *zero* hits. You searched on the words
=> >> individually, i.e. without quotation marks. (If there are zero hits,
=> >> Google does this for you automatically, but it issues a warning.)
=>
=> Dan Tilque:
=> > It probably produced zero hits for you because of the mistake in the
=> > name. It's the International *Committee*, not Society.
=> >
=> > This was my answer. When I googled it before submitting, this search got
=> > somewhere around 130,000 hits:
=> >
=> > "International Committee of the Red Cross Headquarters" Geneva
=> >
=> > Now, I get something like 6400 hits.
=>
=> For what it's worth, I now get about the same.
=>
=> > Why? Could be a number of things, like which server farm I got routed to...
=>
=> Yeah, these things happen. When I used questions with a google-hit
=> requirement I always took the entrant's word for it if they did a
=> correct search and got more hits than I did.
=>
=> > Another search I did before submitting was "International Red Cross
=> > Headquarters" Geneva. That produced 117,000 hits, both then and now. Why
=> > didn't that one change? Who knows.
=>
=> I get 4,050.
=>
=> > Trying other names for the building, I find that this search gives
=> > 980,000 hits:
=> >
=> > "headquarters of the International Red Cross" Geneva
=>
=> I also get 980,000.
=>
=>
=> Anyway, if it was my contest, the issue would be what the hit count
=> was when using the name as supplied in your entry, not what it was
=> when using other forms of the name. Orlando?
I was startled by the unexpectedness of this as a landmark, so I took a
pretty close look at it. On the next line is the precise form of the
query that I supplied to Google, which includes the parentheses:
("International Committee of the Red Cross Headquarters" Switzerland)
The first term is the answer exactly as submitted, and Switzerland
seemed to be the most general destination. Using google.ca (the one
ostensibly tailored for Canadians) the score was 1,170,000. Being deeply
suspicious of Google, I reran the query several times, and the
variations were all of the same order, so I decided to accept the answer.
The primary reason for small variations appears to reflect changes in
catalogued web sites that choose to refer to the query, which is the
basis of Google's original scoring model. I have no idea why there can
be variations of many orders of magnitude on occasion. It's one of the
many reasons that I no longer use Google except in circumstances such as
this contest.
As an exercise I have just adapted my Google confusion script (designed
to obscure my real queries amidst a continual stream of semi-random
queries) to repeat this particular queries over an hour at random
intervals of several minutes. The results were identical at
approximately 1,190,000.
Yes, Mark, it is much harder than it looks, and I never thought it was
going to be easy in the first place. I am so glad that you ploughed this
field extensively before me, enabling me to start at least somewhat warm.
m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
=> Orlando Quattro:
=> >>> => 6. Unambiguously identify a globally recognized landmark that contains
=> >>> => the word "red" as part of its name. Global recognition means that a
=> >>> => Google search produces at least one hundred thousand hits.
=> >>> =>
=> >>> => The Google search must be of the form: ("landmark name" "location")
=> >>>
=> >>> => The Google search must be of the form: ("landmark name" "location")
=> >>> 4 Red Rocks Amphitheater (Colorado)
=> >>> 2 Red Square (Moscow)
=> >>> 2 Red Centre (Australia)
=> >>> 1 Red Tower (Malta)
=> >>> 1 Headquarters of the International Society of the Red Cross
=> >>> (Switzerland)
=>
=> >>> ...the Red Cross HQ, which is nevertheless a correct answer.
=>
=> Mark Brader:
=> >> No, it isn't. It produces *zero* hits. You searched on the words
=> >> individually, i.e. without quotation marks. (If there are zero hits,
=> >> Google does this for you automatically, but it issues a warning.)
=>
=> Dan Tilque:
=> > It probably produced zero hits for you because of the mistake in the
=> > name. It's the International *Committee*, not Society.
=> >
=> > This was my answer. When I googled it before submitting, this search got
=> > somewhere around 130,000 hits:
=> >
=> > "International Committee of the Red Cross Headquarters" Geneva
=> >
=> > Now, I get something like 6400 hits.
=>
=> For what it's worth, I now get about the same.
=>
=> > Why? Could be a number of things, like which server farm I got routed to...
=>
=> Yeah, these things happen. When I used questions with a google-hit
=> requirement I always took the entrant's word for it if they did a
=> correct search and got more hits than I did.
=>
=> > Another search I did before submitting was "International Red Cross
=> > Headquarters" Geneva. That produced 117,000 hits, both then and now. Why
=> > didn't that one change? Who knows.
=>
=> I get 4,050.
=>
=> > Trying other names for the building, I find that this search gives
=> > 980,000 hits:
=> >
=> > "headquarters of the International Red Cross" Geneva
=>
=> I also get 980,000.
=>
=>
=> Anyway, if it was my contest, the issue would be what the hit count
=> was when using the name as supplied in your entry, not what it was
=> when using other forms of the name. Orlando?
I was startled by the unexpectedness of this as a landmark, so I took a
pretty close look at it. On the next line is the precise form of the
query that I supplied to Google, which includes the parentheses:
("International Committee of the Red Cross Headquarters" Switzerland)
The first term is the answer exactly as submitted, and Switzerland
seemed to be the most general destination. Using google.ca (the one
ostensibly tailored for Canadians) the score was 1,170,000. Being deeply
suspicious of Google, I reran the query several times, and the
variations were all of the same order, so I decided to accept the answer.
The primary reason for small variations appears to reflect changes in
catalogued web sites that choose to refer to the query, which is the
basis of Google's original scoring model. I have no idea why there can
be variations of many orders of magnitude on occasion. It's one of the
many reasons that I no longer use Google except in circumstances such as
this contest.
As an exercise I have just adapted my Google confusion script (designed
to obscure my real queries amidst a continual stream of semi-random
queries) to repeat this particular queries over an hour at random
intervals of several minutes. The results were identical at
approximately 1,190,000.
Yes, Mark, it is much harder than it looks, and I never thought it was
going to be easy in the first place. I am so glad that you ploughed this
field extensively before me, enabling me to start at least somewhat warm.
Orlando Quattro
Apr 17, 2015, 10:31:55 AM4/17/15
to
In article <XnsA47F612F5...@127.0.0.1>,
Erland Sommarskog <esq...@sommarskog.se> wrote:
=> Mark Brader (m...@vex.net) writes:
=> > It wasn't a matter of "classical music" knowledge; it was a matter of
=> > knowledge of uses of opera music in movies. And not only in movies,
=> > but high-grossing ones at that. I found this one horribly tedious to
=> > research.
=>
=> Agreed. My first bet as "Aida" but I had to give it up, since the hits
=> I found at IMDB mainly were in TV things and a few were in movies with
=> a great revenue. I next tried Carmen and was more successful.
=>
=> The gross limit also more or less automatically disqualified older
=> movies for which IMDB had no data, and which one may suspect grossed
=> that much anyway.
=>
=> > Personally, I went with the only one I could think of, and even that one
=> > took me a long time to come up with. I didn't think of Red Square and
=> > two of the others I haven't even heard of.
=>
=> About the only one I could think of was the Red Square, but that seemed
=> to be too likely for a collion, so I simply googled on "red" and "landmark"
=> and this lead me to the Red Tower on Malta.
Another well know one is the Red Fort in Delhi, India.
I was pleased that entrants found possibilities previously unknown to me.
=> > There are definitional problems with this one too. Is a station
=> > "active" if it only operates for part of the year but not during
=> > the contest period? And how broad is the scope of "railway"?
=>
=> Yeah, I was a little anxious that Quattro would not like my answer of
=> Argentina, which immediately came into my mind. There is a railway and
=> there is a station, and there is a train stopping there every day about
=> nine months of the year (not in summer) on 3700 above sea level. But
=> it is not a train you buy a ticket with to go forth and back, but it is
=> a tourist train and you come back where you started.
=>
=> Overall, I was not thrilled over Quattro's question, but since Argentina
=> was an obvious answer to both the first and the last question, I could
=> not restist from entering.
I know, railway people can be really boring, which is partly why I did
not tighten the specification for this question. I was prepared to
accept any country where there is a station at which one can alight from
or board a train on some day in any year.
I'll refrain from putting potential future entrants off with railway
questions, but I don't promise to forego cricket, which is becoming
increasingly popular in Canada.
Erland Sommarskog <esq...@sommarskog.se> wrote:
=> Mark Brader (m...@vex.net) writes:
=> > It wasn't a matter of "classical music" knowledge; it was a matter of
=> > knowledge of uses of opera music in movies. And not only in movies,
=> > but high-grossing ones at that. I found this one horribly tedious to
=> > research.
=>
=> Agreed. My first bet as "Aida" but I had to give it up, since the hits
=> I found at IMDB mainly were in TV things and a few were in movies with
=> a great revenue. I next tried Carmen and was more successful.
=>
=> The gross limit also more or less automatically disqualified older
=> movies for which IMDB had no data, and which one may suspect grossed
=> that much anyway.
=>
=> > Personally, I went with the only one I could think of, and even that one
=> > took me a long time to come up with. I didn't think of Red Square and
=> > two of the others I haven't even heard of.
=>
=> About the only one I could think of was the Red Square, but that seemed
=> to be too likely for a collion, so I simply googled on "red" and "landmark"
=> and this lead me to the Red Tower on Malta.
Another well know one is the Red Fort in Delhi, India.
I was pleased that entrants found possibilities previously unknown to me.
=> > There are definitional problems with this one too. Is a station
=> > "active" if it only operates for part of the year but not during
=> > the contest period? And how broad is the scope of "railway"?
=>
=> Yeah, I was a little anxious that Quattro would not like my answer of
=> Argentina, which immediately came into my mind. There is a railway and
=> there is a station, and there is a train stopping there every day about
=> nine months of the year (not in summer) on 3700 above sea level. But
=> it is not a train you buy a ticket with to go forth and back, but it is
=> a tourist train and you come back where you started.
=>
=> Overall, I was not thrilled over Quattro's question, but since Argentina
=> was an obvious answer to both the first and the last question, I could
=> not restist from entering.
I know, railway people can be really boring, which is partly why I did
not tighten the specification for this question. I was prepared to
accept any country where there is a station at which one can alight from
or board a train on some day in any year.
I'll refrain from putting potential future entrants off with railway
questions, but I don't promise to forego cricket, which is becoming
increasingly popular in Canada.
Orlando Quattro
Apr 17, 2015, 10:48:43 AM4/17/15
to
In article <oquattro-73D5F0...@unknown.hwng.net>,
I <oqua...@magma.ca> wrote:
=>
=> As an exercise I have just adapted my Google confusion script (designed
=> to obscure my real queries amidst a continual stream of semi-random
=> queries) to repeat this particular queries over an hour at random
=> intervals of several minutes. The results were identical at
=> approximately 1,190,000.
I decided to do a little further experimenting, and received the
following results from the identical query submitted to different Google
portals:
Canada (google.ca) about 1,190,000
USA (google.com) about 1,190,000
UK (google.co.uk) about 1,250,000
France (google,fr) about 1,190,000
Sweden (google.se) about 1,250,000
Germany (google.de) about 1,180,000
Italy (google.it) about 1,250,000
Russia (google.ru) about 1,210,000
India (google.co.in) about 1,250,000 (formatted as 12,50,000)
South Africa (google.co.za) about 1,250,000
New Zealand (google.co.nz) about 1,250,000
Australia (google.com.au) about 1,180,000
Argentina (google.com.ar) about 1,170,000
Brasil (google.com.br) about 1,180,000
I expect you could deduce something from these variations.
I <oqua...@magma.ca> wrote:
=>
=> As an exercise I have just adapted my Google confusion script (designed
=> to obscure my real queries amidst a continual stream of semi-random
=> queries) to repeat this particular queries over an hour at random
=> intervals of several minutes. The results were identical at
=> approximately 1,190,000.
I decided to do a little further experimenting, and received the
following results from the identical query submitted to different Google
portals:
Canada (google.ca) about 1,190,000
USA (google.com) about 1,190,000
UK (google.co.uk) about 1,250,000
France (google,fr) about 1,190,000
Sweden (google.se) about 1,250,000
Germany (google.de) about 1,180,000
Italy (google.it) about 1,250,000
Russia (google.ru) about 1,210,000
India (google.co.in) about 1,250,000 (formatted as 12,50,000)
South Africa (google.co.za) about 1,250,000
New Zealand (google.co.nz) about 1,250,000
Australia (google.com.au) about 1,180,000
Argentina (google.com.ar) about 1,170,000
Brasil (google.com.br) about 1,180,000
I expect you could deduce something from these variations.
Mark Brader
Apr 17, 2015, 11:22:57 AM4/17/15
to
Orlando Quattro:
way it writes large numbers.
(So do the others, although you naturally rendered their numbers into
the way we do it. For example, the 1,180,000 from google.de would
actually have been 1.180.000.)
--
Mark Brader "Those who do not understand UNIX
Toronto are condemned to reinvent it."
m...@vex.net -- Henry Spencer
> I expect you could deduce something from these variations.
Well, I can deduce that Google India respects the local culture in the
way it writes large numbers.
(So do the others, although you naturally rendered their numbers into
the way we do it. For example, the 1,180,000 from google.de would
actually have been 1.180.000.)
--
Mark Brader "Those who do not understand UNIX
Toronto are condemned to reinvent it."
m...@vex.net -- Henry Spencer
swp
Apr 17, 2015, 7:50:09 PM4/17/15
to
On Thursday, April 16, 2015 at 9:44:16 PM UTC-4, Orlando Quattro wrote:
> => 3. name a contemporary string instrument that might be found in a
> => modern day symphony orchestra, chamber orchestra, or chamber
> => music ensemble, but NOT only in an early music ensemble. The
> => instrument must be employed in an ensemble role, and NOT solely
> => as a solo performer.
>
> 3 Violin
> 3 Viola
> 3 Cello
> WRONG:
> 1 Ukulele (not a member of a regular orchestra)
>
> Despite the Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain, and the Rocky Mountain
> Ukulele Orchestra, both of which present delightful musical
> performances, I deemed the ukulele not to be an instrument found in a
> symphony orchestra, chamber orchestra, or chamber music ensemble. I
> agree that the above examples might fit the definition of chamber music
> ensemble, but they have chosen to call themselves orchestras. I believe
> that a true chamber ensemble requires a diversity of instruments (as in
> a string quartet) and not merely a set of a single instrument.
>
> I know, had I included a phrase such as "found regularly in", I would
> have avoided this particular contretemps.
>
> It was interesting to see that only three of the regular orchestral
> stringed instruments were chosen, and that nobody attempted to go after
> some of the less obvious answers such as the harp.
formal protest:
> => 3. name a contemporary string instrument that might be found in a
> => modern day symphony orchestra, chamber orchestra, or chamber
> => music ensemble, but NOT only in an early music ensemble. The
> => instrument must be employed in an ensemble role, and NOT solely
> => as a solo performer.
>
> 3 Violin
> 3 Viola
> 3 Cello
> WRONG:
> 1 Ukulele (not a member of a regular orchestra)
>
> Despite the Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain, and the Rocky Mountain
> Ukulele Orchestra, both of which present delightful musical
> performances, I deemed the ukulele not to be an instrument found in a
> symphony orchestra, chamber orchestra, or chamber music ensemble. I
> agree that the above examples might fit the definition of chamber music
> ensemble, but they have chosen to call themselves orchestras. I believe
> that a true chamber ensemble requires a diversity of instruments (as in
> a string quartet) and not merely a set of a single instrument.
>
> I know, had I included a phrase such as "found regularly in", I would
> have avoided this particular contretemps.
>
> It was interesting to see that only three of the regular orchestral
> stringed instruments were chosen, and that nobody attempted to go after
> some of the less obvious answers such as the harp.
you said "might be found in" and I protest your reinterpreting after the fact. I gave the example, and you took the name literally instead of focusing on what the musical group *is*
informal protest:
OK, what did you mean by "but NOT only in an early music ensemble." because I think that can mean the other 9 answers are wrong if taken from a certain point of view. that would change the scores dramatically.
my first instinct was to pick the harp, but thought that would collide with too many others. that I managed to collide on almost all of the others is just how my luck runs in these contests.
congratulations Dan, see ya in the QFTCI!
swp
gerson
Apr 17, 2015, 8:51:14 PM4/17/15
to
"Orlando Quattro" wrote
> I was startled by the unexpectedness of this as a landmark, so I took a
> pretty close look at it. On the next line is the precise form of the
> query that I supplied to Google, which includes the parentheses:
> ("International Committee of the Red Cross Headquarters" Switzerland)
"Headquarters of the International Society of the Red Cross"
and I too think the answer should be exactly right, and not sort of
like a pass mark on an exam for being close, - or was the answer not the
answer in the answer section? Am I confused?
Anyway, thanks for the competition, and I'll look forward to another,
(although I may not be able to enter)
Dan Tilque
Apr 17, 2015, 10:58:09 PM4/17/15
to
gerson wrote:
>
>
> "Orlando Quattro" wrote
>
>> I was startled by the unexpectedness of this as a landmark, so I took
>> a pretty close look at it. On the next line is the precise form of the
>> query that I supplied to Google, which includes the parentheses:
>
>> ("International Committee of the Red Cross Headquarters" Switzerland)
>
> Well, the answer given in the answers section was the below, not the above
> "Headquarters of the International Society of the Red Cross"
For some reason my answer got changed in the answer section. I submitted
>
>
> "Orlando Quattro" wrote
>
>> I was startled by the unexpectedness of this as a landmark, so I took
>> a pretty close look at it. On the next line is the precise form of the
>> query that I supplied to Google, which includes the parentheses:
>
>> ("International Committee of the Red Cross Headquarters" Switzerland)
>
> Well, the answer given in the answers section was the below, not the above
> "Headquarters of the International Society of the Red Cross"
the answer used in the query above. I didn't give the location that I
used for a search, since it wasn't asked for.
The national Red Cross organizations are mostly (all?) Societies, but
the International org is a Committee. This may have something to do with
why the answer section was wrong.
Personally, I think this is one of my best outside-the-box answers I've
given on a Rare Entries contest.
--
Dan Tilque
Dr Nick
Apr 30, 2015, 7:38:52 PM4/30/15
to
Orlando Quattro <oqua...@magma.ca> writes:
> => 2. Unambiguously identify an opera from which music has been
> => featured in at least five full length feature films that are not
> => simply performances of the opera in question, and which have each
> => grossed at least $25 million (USD) at the box office, as shown by
> => the IMDB (Internet Movie DataBase) in their "Box office / business"
> => section, or other authoritative source.
This was the question that meant I didn't get an answer in. I was - as
> => 2. Unambiguously identify an opera from which music has been
> => featured in at least five full length feature films that are not
> => simply performances of the opera in question, and which have each
> => grossed at least $25 million (USD) at the box office, as shown by
> => the IMDB (Internet Movie DataBase) in their "Box office / business"
> => section, or other authoritative source.
ever - horribly busy, so wanted to do what I like to do which is to
scratch up an "ok" list of answers and refine them.
This was a question that I not only couldn't answer without research, I
couldn't even begin to find answers without a major spell at the
keyboard. Find /five/ films, each of which then passes a particular
gate? That's not something I know I can pull an poor-but-not-wrong
answer out of the air to.
Orlando Quattro
Apr 30, 2015, 7:59:11 PM4/30/15
to
In article <87twvx9...@temporary-address.org.uk>,
Dr Nick <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
=>
=> > => 2. Unambiguously identify an opera from which music has been
=> > => featured in at least five full length feature films that are not
=> > => simply performances of the opera in question, and which have each
=> > => grossed at least $25 million (USD) at the box office, as shown by
=> > => the IMDB (Internet Movie DataBase) in their "Box office / business"
=> > => section, or other authoritative source.
=>
=> This was the question that meant I didn't get an answer in. I was - as
=> ever - horribly busy, so wanted to do what I like to do which is to
=> scratch up an "ok" list of answers and refine them.
=>
=> This was a question that I not only couldn't answer without research, I
=> couldn't even begin to find answers without a major spell at the
=> keyboard. Find /five/ films, each of which then passes a particular
=> gate? That's not something I know I can pull an poor-but-not-wrong
=> answer out of the air to.
I gather that most entrants found this question unlovely, to the
point that it may have put off several potential entrants.
This was my first attempt at constructing a rare entries contest,
and was very much a learning experience. At the other end of the
scale, several entrants were unhappy at purely "look up" questions
with a small selection of possible answers.
My apologies for getting so much less than perfect first time round.
I plan to be significantly more careful next time round, but I find
that I am not a naturally gifted quiz master, so as ever people will
have to make their own choice as to whether they want to struggle
with any horrors I throw up, or opt out.
Currently I am giving thought to a second rare entries contest - one
in which I mitigate the more obvious deficiencies with the first.
Dr Nick <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
=>
=> > => 2. Unambiguously identify an opera from which music has been
=> > => featured in at least five full length feature films that are not
=> > => simply performances of the opera in question, and which have each
=> > => grossed at least $25 million (USD) at the box office, as shown by
=> > => the IMDB (Internet Movie DataBase) in their "Box office / business"
=> > => section, or other authoritative source.
=>
=> This was the question that meant I didn't get an answer in. I was - as
=> ever - horribly busy, so wanted to do what I like to do which is to
=> scratch up an "ok" list of answers and refine them.
=>
=> This was a question that I not only couldn't answer without research, I
=> couldn't even begin to find answers without a major spell at the
=> keyboard. Find /five/ films, each of which then passes a particular
=> gate? That's not something I know I can pull an poor-but-not-wrong
=> answer out of the air to.
I gather that most entrants found this question unlovely, to the
point that it may have put off several potential entrants.
This was my first attempt at constructing a rare entries contest,
and was very much a learning experience. At the other end of the
scale, several entrants were unhappy at purely "look up" questions
with a small selection of possible answers.
My apologies for getting so much less than perfect first time round.
I plan to be significantly more careful next time round, but I find
that I am not a naturally gifted quiz master, so as ever people will
have to make their own choice as to whether they want to struggle
with any horrors I throw up, or opt out.
Currently I am giving thought to a second rare entries contest - one
in which I mitigate the more obvious deficiencies with the first.
Dr Nick
May 1, 2015, 2:10:13 AM5/1/15
to
I'm glad it was run.
> My apologies for getting so much less than perfect first time round.
> I plan to be significantly more careful next time round, but I find
> that I am not a naturally gifted quiz master, so as ever people will
> have to make their own choice as to whether they want to struggle
> with any horrors I throw up, or opt out.
one of A, B or C" nor "find two countries with populations within 10% at
the last census".
> Currently I am giving thought to a second rare entries contest - one
> in which I mitigate the more obvious deficiencies with the first.
Peter Smyth
May 1, 2015, 1:20:11 PM5/1/15
to
Dr Nick wrote:
> Orlando Quattro <oqua...@magma.ca> writes:
>
> > => 2. Unambiguously identify an opera from which music has been
> > => featured in at least five full length feature films that are
> > not => simply performances of the opera in question, and which
> > have each => grossed at least $25 million (USD) at the box
> > office, as shown by => the IMDB (Internet Movie DataBase) in
> > their "Box office / business" => section, or other authoritative
> > source.
>
> This was the question that meant I didn't get an answer in. I was -
> as ever - horribly busy, so wanted to do what I like to do which is to
> scratch up an "ok" list of answers and refine them.
>
> This was a question that I not only couldn't answer without research,
> I couldn't even begin to find answers without a major spell at the
> keyboard. Find five films, each of which then passes a particular
> Orlando Quattro <oqua...@magma.ca> writes:
>
> > => 2. Unambiguously identify an opera from which music has been
> > => featured in at least five full length feature films that are
> > not => simply performances of the opera in question, and which
> > have each => grossed at least $25 million (USD) at the box
> > office, as shown by => the IMDB (Internet Movie DataBase) in
> > their "Box office / business" => section, or other authoritative
> > source.
>
> This was the question that meant I didn't get an answer in. I was -
> as ever - horribly busy, so wanted to do what I like to do which is to
> scratch up an "ok" list of answers and refine them.
>
> This was a question that I not only couldn't answer without research,
> I couldn't even begin to find answers without a major spell at the
> gate? That's not something I know I can pull an poor-but-not-wrong
> answer out of the air to.
My thoughts were similar, however I decided to just name a random
> answer out of the air to.
opera, hoping that if I picked something fairly famous it would
probably have been used in films at some point.
Peter Smyth
Joshua Kreitzer
May 2, 2015, 1:33:29 AM5/2/15
to
On Friday, May 1, 2015 at 12:20:11 PM UTC-5, Peter Smyth wrote:
> Dr Nick wrote:
>
> > Orlando Quattro <oqua...@magma.ca> writes:
> >
> > > > 2. Unambiguously identify an opera from which music has been
> Dr Nick wrote:
>
> > Orlando Quattro <oqua...@magma.ca> writes:
> >
> > > > 2. Unambiguously identify an opera from which music has been
> > > > featured in at least five full length feature films that are
> > > > not simply performances of the opera in question, and which
> > > > have each grossed at least $25 million (USD) at the box
> > > > office, as shown by the IMDB (Internet Movie DataBase) in
> > > > their "Box office / business" section, or other authoritative
> > > > source.
> >
> > This was the question that meant I didn't get an answer in. I was -
> > as ever - horribly busy, so wanted to do what I like to do which is to
> > scratch up an "ok" list of answers and refine them.
> >
> > This was a question that I not only couldn't answer without research,
> > I couldn't even begin to find answers without a major spell at the
> > keyboard. Find five films, each of which then passes a particular
> > gate? That's not something I know I can pull an poor-but-not-wrong
> > answer out of the air to.
>
> My thoughts were similar, however I decided to just name a random
> opera, hoping that if I picked something fairly famous it would
> probably have been used in films at some point.
I knew how I wanted to research the question, but doing so didn't pan out the way I had hoped.
> >
> > This was the question that meant I didn't get an answer in. I was -
> > as ever - horribly busy, so wanted to do what I like to do which is to
> > scratch up an "ok" list of answers and refine them.
> >
> > This was a question that I not only couldn't answer without research,
> > I couldn't even begin to find answers without a major spell at the
> > keyboard. Find five films, each of which then passes a particular
> > gate? That's not something I know I can pull an poor-but-not-wrong
> > answer out of the air to.
>
> My thoughts were similar, however I decided to just name a random
> opera, hoping that if I picked something fairly famous it would
> probably have been used in films at some point.
My plan was:
1. Go to the IMDb page of a famous opera composer.
2. Choose one of the composer's operas and look for that title in the composer's Soundtrack credits.
3. Check the Box Office/Business page for each film using that opera on the soundtrack to confirm that at least five of them grossed at least $25 million.
Unfortunately, a lot of the films I found during those searches weren't listed as grossing at least $25 million. (And for films prior to the 1980s, not only were box office results usually not available, but relatively few of them would have grossed at least $25 million anyway.)
Also, in some cases the IMDb soundtrack listings only lists an aria by title without indicating the opera it came from, and it would take additional work to associate the arias with their respective operas.
In addition, it wasn't clear from the question whether grosses outside North America counted. For example, "Benvenuti al nord" (2012) uses "Die Walküre" on the soundtrack, and it grossed EURO 26,994,950 in Italy. The euro is worth more than the U.S. dollar, so that's equivalent to more than $25 million (USD) ... but would that have counted? The film was never released in the U.S., so it never grossed anything *in* U.S. dollars.
So I went with "Lohengrin," because the Bridal Chorus from that is so famous that I figured I could find five eligible films that qualified. (Five $25 million-plus grossers that used music from "Lohengrin": "Muppets Most Wanted," "Bride Wars," "In Her Shoes," "Wedding Crashers," and "Nutty Professor II: The Klumps.")
But even after seeing the list of answers, I can't necessarily find five $25 million+ films for each. For example, I don't know what films could be used for "The Pirates of Penzance" besides "The Wild Thornberrys Movie," "Kate & Leopold," and "Chariots of Fire." I'd like to see a list of qualifying films for each of the operas that showed up among the correct answers.
--
Joshua Kreitzer
grom...@hotmail.com
Calvin
May 2, 2015, 3:57:48 PM5/2/15
to
On Saturday, May 2, 2015 at 3:33:29 PM UTC+10, Joshua Kreitzer wrote:
> But even after seeing the list of answers, I can't necessarily find five $25 million+ films for each. For example, I don't know what films could be used for "The Pirates of Penzance" besides "The Wild Thornberrys Movie," "Kate & Leopold," and "Chariots of Fire."
An American Tail
> But even after seeing the list of answers, I can't necessarily find five $25 million+ films for each. For example, I don't know what films could be used for "The Pirates of Penzance" besides "The Wild Thornberrys Movie," "Kate & Leopold," and "Chariots of Fire."
The Hand that Rocks the Cradle
The Pirate Movie
Never Cry Wolf
cheers,
calvin
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